NationStates Jolt Archive

Principles of the Wiccan Belief:
1. We practice rites to attune ourselves with the natural rhythm of life forces marked by the phases of the Moon and the seasonal Quarters and Cross Quarters.

2. We recognize that our intelligence gives us a unique responsibility towards our environment. We seek to live in harmony with Nature, in ecological balance offering fulfillment to life and consciousness within an evolutionary concept.

3. We acknowledge a depth of power far greater than that apparent to the average person. Because it is far greater than ordinary it is sometimes called "supernatural", but we see it as lying within that which is naturally potential to all.

4. We conceive of the Creative Power in the universe as manifesting through polarity-as masculine and feminine-and that this same Creative Power lies in all people, and functions through the interaction of the masculine and feminine. We value neither above the other, knowing each to be supportive of the other. We value sex as pleasure, as the symbol and embodiment of life, and as one of the sources of energies used in magickal practice and religious worship. 2

5. We recognize both outer and inner, or psychological, worlds -- sometimes known as the Spiritual World, the Collective Unconscious, Inner Planes, etc. -- and we see in the interaction of these two dimensions the basis for paranormal phenomena and magickal exercises. We neglect neither dimension for the other, seeing both as necessary for our fulfillment.

6. We do not recognize any authoritarian hierarchy, but do honor those who teach, respect those who share their greater knowledge and wisdom, and acknowledge those who have courageously given of themselves in leadership.

7. We see religion, magick and wisdom-in-living as being united in the way one views the world and lives within it -- a world view and philosophy of life which we identify as Witchcraft, the Wiccan Way.

8. Calling oneself "Witch" does not make a Witch -- but neither does heredity itself, nor the collecting of titles, degrees and initiations. A Witch seeks to control the forces within her/himself that make life possible in order to live wisely and well without harm to others and in harmony with Nature. 3

9. We believe in the affirmation and fulfillment of life in a continuation of evolution and development of consciousness, that gives meaning to the Universe we know, and our personal role within it.

10. Our only animosity towards Christianity, or toward any other religion or philosophy of life, is to the extent that its institutions have claimed to be "the only way," and have sought to deny freedom to others and to suppress other ways of religious practice and belief.

11. As American Witches, we are not threatened by debates on the history of the Craft, the origins of various terms, the origins of various aspects of different traditions. We are concerned with our present and our future.

12. We do not accept the concept of absolute evil, nor do we worship any entity known as "Satan" or "the Devil", as defined by Christian tradition. 4 We do not seek power through the suffering of others, nor do we accept that personal benefit can be derived only by denial to another.

13. We believe that we should seek within Nature that which is contributory to our health and well-being.

The Wiccan belief system is quite interesting, I've studied it a little myself. Could you possibly explain to me the roots of Wicca and what direct ties it might have to the Celtic Druidic beliefs?

P.S. Careful though, posting here might get you metaphorically burned at the stake by the NS Christian hordes ;)

While I hate to sound off topic, why are there periodcally numbers (2, 3 and 4) at the end of sentences (sometimes inside), but no reference to what they mean? For that matter, what happened to 1? o.o

The Wiccan belief system is quite interesting, I've studied it a little myself. Could you possibly explain to me the roots of Wicca and what direct ties it had to the Celtic Druidic beliefs?

P.S. Careful though, posting here might get you metaphorically burned at the stake by the NS Christian hordes ;)


http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

While I hate to sound off topic, why are there perioidcally numbers (2, 3 and 4) at the end of sentences (sometimes inside), but no reference to what they mean? For that matter, what happened to 1? o.o


I guess I should have removed those.

Thanks :)

Knowing several dozen wiccans myself, I'm a bit curious about organizations of wiccans I've seen. Are there places in the US with more wiccans than others? I know that the Pacific northwest has many, many varying branches of wiccan belief; but how many reside in places such as Alabama, Maine, or Nebraska? I have very little idea of the scope or scale of the numbers.

P.S. Careful though, posting here might get you metaphorically burned at the stake by the NS Christian hordes ;)

Speaking on behalf of the NS Christian hordes, we are so gonna sue your heathen ass! Prepare Ye To be Smited by THE LAWYERS OF GOD!!! :)

Seriously, though, Wicca has always fascinated me and seemed like a wonderful religion, with many views running parallel to my own. The problem I've found, however, and this is completely a judgement based on my own limited sampling, is that many of those who claim the title use it as more of an excuse to wear patchouli instead of washing and have a lot of sex for no apparent reason. This certainly doesn't speak to the majority of Wiccans out there, I'm sure, but it rather put me off the faith.

Knowing several dozen wiccans myself, I'm a bit curious about organizations of wiccans I've seen. Are there places in the US with more wiccans than others? I know that the Pacific northwest has many, many varying branches of wiccan belief; but how many reside in places such as Alabama, Maine, or Nebraska? I have very little idea of the scope or scale of the numbers.


I wouldn't know, I live in an area with very few myself. Far away from the North-West.

The Wiccan belief system is quite interesting, I've studied it a little myself. Could you possibly explain to me the roots of Wicca and what direct ties it might have to the Celtic Druidic beliefs?


Actually, another great source of information about modern Wiccans are two books. The Spiral Dance by Starhawk and Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Addler. They both deal with the roots of Wiccan faith and practice as well as modern expressions of it.

Actually, another great source of information about modern Wiccans are two books. The Spiral Dance by Starhawk and Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Addler. They both deal with the roots of Wiccan faith and practice as well as modern expressions of it.


Go to Amazon.com, They have alot of great books on it.

EVIL WITCHES!!!

Ok, no, really. I haven't looked very deeply into Wicca, but the beliefs have always interested me. From what I've seen, Wicca is not entirely incompatible with Christianity. If one views "God" as existing throughout nature and as being both a male and femalse force, one can look at the Bible as further guidance on a spiritual pathway. "Casting spells" is much like praying, as it is calling on that higher power to alter something about the world or protect you or whatever the spell is about. Christ could be seen as one who had so much of the divine in him that he embodied the force of nature.

Now, these aren't really the beliefs I hold, although I do sometimes lean towards the "God is throughout Nature" idea, but it's really interesting to me how compatible religions that seem very different can actually be.

I wouldn't know, I live in an area with very few myself. Far away from the North-West.

Ah, pity. From what little I know, I must live in something of a wiccan mecca of sorts. Even outside the colleges and such there are probably a thousand or more neo-pagans of one kind or another here.

The problem I've found, however, and this is completely a judgement based on my own limited sampling, is that many of those who claim the title use it as more of an excuse to wear patchouli instead of washing and have a lot of sex for no apparent reason. This certainly doesn't speak to the majority of Wiccans out there, I'm sure, but it rather put me off the faith.

That's an interesting point - but I think all religions and belief systems have their wannabes.

--------------

WW, how do you feel about shows like Charmed or Buffy TVS - do you think they have trivialised or misreprented Wiccan ideals, or have they helped promote understanding?

EVIL WITCHES!!!

Ok, no, really. I haven't looked very deeply into Wicca, but the beliefs have always interested me. From what I've seen, Wicca is not entirely incompatible with Christianity. If one views "God" as existing throughout nature and as being both a male and femalse force, one can look at the Bible as further guidance on a spiritual pathway. "Casting spells" is much like praying, as it is calling on that higher power to alter something about the world or protect you or whatever the spell is about. Christ could be seen as one who had so much of the divine in him that he embodied the force of nature.

Now, these aren't really the beliefs I hold, although I do sometimes lean towards the "God is throughout Nature" idea, but it's really interesting to me how compatible religions that seem very different can actually be.

Absolutely the two are compatible (at least, in as much as one's personal convictions will allow them to be). I met a Wiccan practicioner once who claimed that one of the personifications of deity that he worshipped was Jesus Christ.

When one takes out personal prejudice, it's amazing the amount of convergence various spiritual traditions share.

That's an interesting point - but I think all religions and belief systems have their wannabes.

Oh, without a doubt. That's why I'm sincerely hoping this thread doesn't turn into a flame fest, so I might have a chance to get more insight into the actual faith from it's practitioners.

That's an interesting point - but I think all religions and belief systems have their wannabes.

--------------

WW, how do you feel about shows like Charmed or Buffy TVS - do you think they have trivialised or misreprented Wiccan ideals, or have they helped promote understanding?


They mostly promote a huge misunderstanding about Us, They lead people to believe we are evil twisted Satan loving freak, we are not. It is shows like those that cause ignorance about us.

Absolutely the two are compatible (at least, in as much as one's personal convictions will allow them to be). I met a Wiccan practicioner once who claimed that one of the personifications of deity that he worshipped was Jesus Christ.

When one takes out personal prejudice, it's amazing the amount of convergence various spiritual traditions share.

This is a little off-topic, but at least somewhat related. I can't imagine following a religion that was completely incompatible with all other religions. To steal a line from C.S. Lewis, If you told me that there were 1000 religions and 999 were completely wrong but one of them was completely right - I'd tell you you were crazy.

I think it makes much more sense to think that most religions see an aspect of what God (or gods, if you will) are and want from humankind. While all paths may not necessarily be "equal," I think there are probably many ways to find your way to God and if my way doesn't work for you, who am I to tell you you're wrong?

It's really too bad that so many people are insecure in their own beliefs and can't leave other people's alone, much less have any of their ideas challenged for even a second. Why are so many Christians scare of Wicca? Because they are insecure in their own beliefs and can't handle the fact that others might see the world differently.

I'm actually taking a World Religions class, and we'll be discussing Wicca tomorrow. Sounds like it'll be fun.

Sorry guys, haven't we evolved past the days of worshipping the moon?

This is a little off-topic, but at least somewhat related. I can't imagine following a religion that was completely incompatible with all other religions. To steal a line from C.S. Lewis, If you told me that there were 1000 religions and 999 were completely wrong but one of them was completely right - I'd tell you you were crazy.

Absolutely. If one assumes that true faith stems from an honest desire to answer questions that may, in fact, be unanswerable and that religion is merely a framework to make sense of those potential answers, then concordance must be expected and, indeed, sought after and prized. When I find a belief that I hold mirrored in an honest practitioner of another faith, instead of feeling threatened by the different paths, I'm energized that perhaps we're both on to something and that, perhaps, our arriving at the same conclusion from different paths validates that conclusion. Religion should never be the point, only a vehicle to travel the path.


It's really too bad that so many people are insecure in their own beliefs and can't leave other people's alone, much less have any of their ideas challenged for even a second. Why are so many Christians scare of Wicca? Because they are insecure in their own beliefs and can't handle the fact that others might see the world differently.

That's an interesting question. Perhaps WW or another Wiccan on this board might like to hazzard a guess. Personally, I think it's an artifact of the controlling nature of the medieval Christian Church and it's rampant denigration of women. While Wicca is by no means limited only to women, it has certainly been primarily associated with them. The idea of a "wise woman" was particularly threatening to the medieval Church and it's concept of a very male God. Hence the Inquisition or, "The Burning Times", as I've heard Wiccans refer to their persecution. Most of the women accused of witchcraft weren't even witches, just disliked women because they lived alone or perhaps had some sort of knowledge about medicine and healing or were midwives. Witches served as a convenient target for a largely misogynistic Church, allowing the continued oppression of women. Witches were so infamized that echos of that sentiment continue to this day.

I just wanted to interject here and mention that while all Wiccans are Witches, not all Witches are Wiccan. It is essential to know the difference.

Sorry guys, haven't we evolved past the days of worshipping the moon?

Not if you live on the coast. Tides are helpful things.

Sorry guys, haven't we evolved past the days of worshipping the moon?

Beats worshipping the 2000 year old cadaver of a carpenter ... at least we can see the moon!

Goddamn, will someone please burn these dirty pagans?




























































Just kidding.

Sorry guys, haven't we evolved past the days of worshipping the moon?

Yes, we *have* evolved past the days of worshipping the moon. Which is why it's convenient that we Wiccans no more "worship the moon" than Christians "worship the nails that held Jesus to the cross". It's a symbolic, iconic image that represents a greater spiritual truth and credo.

The Wiccan belief system is quite interesting, I've studied it a little myself. Could you possibly explain to me the roots of Wicca and what direct ties it might have to the Celtic Druidic beliefs?


No ties whatsoever. Celtic Druid practices have been around for thousands of years, predating Christianity, while Wicca was founded by Gerald Gardner in the 1950s.

Now, I'm not saying it's any less valid because it's new, I'm just saying that the two have little in common.

Druids have a distinct authoritarian hierarchy. Wicca does not.

Wiccans believe in the Three Fold Law and follow the Rede. Druids have a system of honor, loyalty, and courage.

Wiccans follow a law that says "An' (read: if) it harm none, Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law". Druids will stab you in the head without a thought if you try to invade their space or usurp their rights.

Wiccans worship a dual aspect of one Deity in the Goddess and the Horned God. Druids worship many Deities in groups of three.

I could go on ... but nah.

Goddamn, will someone please burn these dirty pagans?


Hey! I bathed!

Yes, man! "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law!"

Didn't Crowley say that?

Yes, man! "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law!"

Didn't Crowley say that?

Nod .... Gardner added the "An' it harm none" part. It was a departure from Crowley's law that said people had the right to kill anyone who would seek to take away their rights. Gardner and his bunch believed that nobody had the right to harm anyone, regardless of the reason.

Some Wiccans take "harm none" to also mean the self and they avoid tattoos, cigarettes, alcohol, and other such things - though that's a rather small sect. Yes, by the way, even a religion that is a mere 50 years old already has dozens of sects - though Gardnerians will assert that only they are true Wiccans.

So, when will we get nekkid and dance around the fire?

So, when will we get nekkid and dance around the fire?

YOu don't have to be wiccan to do that. I'm christian and I'm nekkid right now. :D

The Wiccan belief system is quite interesting, I've studied it a little myself. Could you possibly explain to me the roots of Wicca and what direct ties it might have to the Celtic Druidic beliefs?

P.S. Careful though, posting here might get you metaphorically burned at the stake by the NS Christian hordes ;)

Wicca is a completely artificial religion invented in the 1960s, quite similarily to Hare Krishna. It merely stole many aspects and practices from long dead religions such as celtic paganism.

And that little comment about being burned at the steak, that is a demonstration that the only reason this pointless and empty belief is ever practiced is because of pathetic adolescent angst like that youre displaying.

Next time, consider something once you are less ignorant of it.

YOu don't have to be wiccan to do that. I'm christian and I'm nekkid right now. :D
:eek: SIN!!!!!!! YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR THAT!!!!!!! COVER YOURSELF!!! NOW!!! :eek:

Seems to me that your statement is sad buty true, sachka...the only Wiccans I've ever met are otherwise ordinary teenage girls probably looking for attention.

:eek: SIN!!!!!!! YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR THAT!!!!!!! COVER YOURSELF!!! NOW!!! :eek:

You should see what happens when Jehova's Witnesses come over and I answer the door like this. :D

Seems to me that your statement is sad buty true, sachka...the only Wiccans I've ever met are otherwise ordinary teenage girls probably looking for attention.

There are about 300,000 Wiccans in the US and I doubt the hundreds of Wiccans currently serving in the US Military are teenage girls. ;)

Wicca is a completely artificial religion invented in the 1960s, quite similarily to Hare Krishna. It merely stole many aspects and practices from long dead religions such as celtic paganism.

And that little comment about being burned at the steak, that is a demonstration that the only reason this pointless and empty belief is ever practiced is because of pathetic adolescent angst like that youre displaying.

Next time, consider something once you are less ignorant of it.

Yes, it's considered to be Neo-Pagan, and many of its traditions were derived (not "stolen") from the druids and Celts. (Christianity "stole" many pagan traditions, if you want to get right down to it; Easter and Christmas were originally Equinox and Solstice festivals, respectively, as I'm sure you're aware.)

As a Secular Humanist, I see Wicca as having many sensible tenets and others that I find extraneous. The Wiccan Rede, "An It Harm None, Do What Thou Wilt," is my nation's motto. I do my best to follow that moral code in my daily life, but I do not recognize, worship or seek to invoke any supernatural power. It irks me that people choose to follow Wicca, or any other religion for that matter, for the sake of being trendy or a nonconformist without doing their more conscientious peers the courtesy of understanding a single thing about it.

You know, you have just sucked all the interest out of paganism. How you ask? (Even if you didn't ask I'll answer anyway because I love the sound of my own voice, or the sight of my text)
No human sacrifices! My entire five minutes as a wiccan consisted of the conversation:
"Can we kill someone now?"
"No."
"What about summoning a demon?"
"We don't do that-"
"Look that guy is littering, lets rip his innards out!"
"That is not what this religion is about!"
"Your right, burning them would be more ironic."
"Thats not what I meant-"
"If you insist. I'll just have to bring some knives to-"
"THERE IS NO HUMAN SACRIFICE IN WICCA!!"
"How about slitting a deer's throat and drinking the blood?"
"That is disgusting, you filthy animal."
"You're no fun, I quit. And I am still going to wear this pointy hat."
"No one wears hats like that."
"Harry Potter says so."
"You are seriously pushing the no Human Sacrifice clause."

Wicca is a completely artificial religion invented in the 1960s, quite similarily to Hare Krishna. It merely stole many aspects and practices from long dead religions such as celtic paganism.

And that little comment about being burned at the steak, that is a demonstration that the only reason this pointless and empty belief is ever practiced is because of pathetic adolescent angst like that youre displaying.

Next time, consider something once you are less ignorant of it.

Hello friend, see the smiley, the little yellow face like so - :) That means it was a light-hearted quip, not to be taken seriously. You know, like when people in theatre say "break a leg", they don't actually want the person to physically break their leg...

Strangely enough, you accuse me of "adolescent angst" (I'm 32 BTW - so I take the adolescent part as quite a compliment - thank you :)), yet want to find a blasphemous insult where none was intended. I think if either of us is suffering from "angst", it may just be your own good self. :)

As for the rest, I was asking a question - that's how people find things out, you know. I was asking what the similarities or ties were, not making a statement. Perhaps your grasp of English and grammar is as lacking as your sense of humour? ;)

P.S. Could you please explain this concept of "artificial religion", I am quite intrigued. Is Christianity somehow an "organic religion". Or is Wicca simply artificial because it hasn't been around as long as Christianity? If this is your viewpoint, does this mean that Christianity is less valid than, say, Buddhism or Judaism, as both of these predate Christianity?

In short, keep your hostility to yourself, unless you want to appear as a foolish bigot. Either way, it's water off a duck's back to me - the only reason I bothered answering you at all was that your myopic comments amused me. :p

I have a question for Wiccans. Is hate taught as a normal emotion? Or something bad?
Also, do you cleanse your life force after interacting with the sick?

Seems to me that your statement is sad buty true, sachka...the only Wiccans I've ever met are otherwise ordinary teenage girls probably looking for attention.
I only know one Wiccan, who matches your description. I am sure there are many that aren't but meh.

Hajekistan, if that was a joke it wasn't funny. If it wasn't you're a complete idiot.

P.S. Could you please explain this concept of "artificial religion", I am quite intrigued. Is Christianity somehow an "organic religion". Or is Wicca simply artificial because it hasn't been around as long as Christianity? If this is your viewpoint, does this mean that Christianity is less valid than, say, Buddhism or Judaism, as both of these predate Christianity?
...
In short, keep your hostility to yourself, unless you want to appear as a foolish bigot. Either way, it's water off a duck's back to me - the only reason I bothered answering you at all was that your myopic comments amused me. :p

Umm... what's myopic mean :confused: ?

but anyway -
Surely Wicca is not from the 1950s? It is based on older traditions yes?

Like if I ask a chatholic where his/her religeon comes from he would tell me "Jesus" right? as opposed to the Roman Emporer who founded the catholic church in order to appease the ravening hordes that were kicking around his pagan friends?

Similarly most younger christian churches would surely quote "Jesus" or "The Bible" or something as the source of their religeon, instead of the guy that actually founded the church (except possibly mormans?)

Surely?

I have a question for Wiccans. Is hate taught as a normal emotion? Or something bad?

I'm not Wiccan, but I can answer this from my own Pagan beliefs ...

Hate is a tool when used properly can be incredibly handy. However, one has to learn how to control it just like one must control any emotion. Hate unchecked becomes Anger just as Love unchecked becomes Lust.

Also, do you cleanse your life force after interacting with the sick?


No.

Myopie (sorry I learned that in french and don't know the correct english translation) is an eye condition where the eye focuses so that certain images appear infront of the retina instead of on it, making them blurry. This could be related to near sightedness or maybe narrow minded *shrugs*

Okay, acceptable to regulate it. But it is not supressed all together, good.

That leads to illness, since some illnesses is caused by negative energies. Interacting with, especially healing the sick, causes that to transfer which will ultimately make you sick as well with enough interaction. This is my belief atleast.

Umm... what's myopic mean :confused: ?

http://www.m-w.com

Wicca in its present form was created within the past century, yes.

Also, Mormons would maintain that Jesus Christ is the source of their religion, as would Catholics and Protestants. Joseph Smith figures into it greatly, but to my (albeit limited) knowledge, Jesus is at the core of LDS.

Surely Wicca is not from the 1950s? It is based on older traditions yes?


There was no Wicca prior to Gerald Gardner founding it in the 1950s. Gardner did take a hodge-podge of what he felt to be his favorite aspects of older religions, but the first recorded mention of the Wiccan Rede was in a speech by Doreen Valiente on October 3, 1964.

The long form of the Rede didn't show up until published in the Ostara 1975 (Vol. III. No. 69) issue of Green Egg magazine, in an article called "Wiccan-Pagan Potpourri", was a long poem called the Rede Of The Wiccae:

Bide the Wiccan Laws ye must In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
Live an’ let live - Fairly take an’ fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about To keep all evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time - Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye an’ light of touch - Speak little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing Moon - Sing and dance the Wiccan rune.
Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, An’ the Werewolf howls by the dread Wolfsbane.
When the Lady’s Moon is new, Kiss thy hand to Her times two.
When the Moon rides at Her peak Then your heart’s desire seek.
Heed the Northwind’s mighty gale - Lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the East, Expect the new and set the feast.
When the West wind blows o’er thee, Departed spirits restless be.
Nine woods in the Cauldron go - Burn them quick an’ burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady’s tree - Burn it not or cursed ye’ll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn - Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule, Light the Log an’ let Pan rule.
Heed ye flower bush an’ tree - By the Lady Blessèd Be.
Where the rippling waters go Cast a stone an’ truth ye’ll know.
When ye have need, Hearken not to others greed.
With the fool no season spend Or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet an’ merry part - Bright the cheeks an’ warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law ye should - Three times bad an’ three times good.
When misfortune is enow, Wear the Blue Star on thy brow.
True in love ever be Unless thy lover’s false to thee.
Eight words ye Wiccan Rede fulfill - An’ it harm none, Do what ye will.

Written by Lady Gwen Thomson (1928-1986) who attributed it to her grandmother, Adriana Porter - though there is some controversy there. The entire history of Lady Gwen's Rede was made up to add a sense of lineage and credibility to her established tradition. The questionable claims of family-based initiations pre-dating Gardner were not un-common and readily abused, so the accuracy of Thomson's claim will always remain somewhat debatable without documentation.

However, the "do as thou wilt" thing comes from the 1534 novel Gargantua by Francois Rabelais "Do as thou wilt because men that are free, of gentle birth, well bred and at home in civilized company possess a natural instinct that inclines them to virtue and saves them from vice. This instinct they name their honor."

Okie .... history lesson over ...

Hajekistan, if that was a joke it wasn't funny. If it wasn't you're a complete idiot.
Why so touchy, Arenestho? I did make up the bit about the Harry Potter hat, I probably said something equally stupid about headgear, though.
Anyway, I was really just trying to annoy that bastard. He broke my chair you see? It was my only chair at the time, and he broke it. I don't quite think you understand, HE BROKE MY ONLY CHAIR! I was in mourning, and I had to mourn while sitting on the floor because he broke my chair.

http://www.m-w.com

Wicca in its present form was created within the past century, yes.

Also, Mormons would maintain that Jesus Christ is the source of their religion, as would Catholics and Protestants. Joseph Smith figures into it greatly, but to my (albeit limited) knowledge, Jesus is at the core of LDS.
Baptism is the core of LDS, from what I understand of it.

I'm afraid that on the whole I have to agree with the guy who said 'Wiccans are usually teenage girls looking for attention' - after all, those are the only types I met. I mean... Worshipping the moon? Thats just comedy material!

http://www.openbiblefellowship.org/2003%20asorted%20styles%20of%20worship.JPG

http://science.nasa.gov/images/bluemoon_fred.jpg

I'm afraid that on the whole I have to agree with the guy who said 'Wiccans are usually teenage girls looking for attention' - after all, those are the only types I met. I mean... Worshipping the moon? Thats just comedy material!


Even if that were true that doesn't invalidate it. Teenage girls looking for attention are much better of as wikka than doing the many other things they could try (like slashing their wrists or taking up drama classes)

Knowing several dozen wiccans myself, I'm a bit curious about organizations of wiccans I've seen. Are there places in the US with more wiccans than others? I know that the Pacific northwest has many, many varying branches of wiccan belief; but how many reside in places such as Alabama, Maine, or Nebraska? I have very little idea of the scope or scale of the numbers.

I'm from Pell City, Alabama and a few years ago there was an incident involving a group of Wiccans who had moved into a community...sadly, the community resorted to hateful protests, calling them devil worshipers and such. It really was sad, and hypocritical, of these southern Baptists to be so cruel. Actually, it was one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen, as one particular rally was shown on the news. An old woman holding a sign and shouting at the Wiccan's home really makes one wonder why Christians (not all mind you) can call themselves tolerant, unjudging people.

Oh, and the Wiccans were run out of town, literally. Nothing like a good old fashioned witch hunt sans the burning stake...

Here's the fun link
http://www.celticcrow.com/news/pellcity.html

An old woman holding a sign and shouting at the Wiccan's home really makes one wonder why Christians (not all mind you) can call themselves tolerant, unjudging people.
http://www.celticcrow.com/news/pellcity.html

Let me just back you up on a certain point.

Not all Christians are like this, living in America I can understand why some true Liberals (not those to the right of the Democrats) are disgusted by thier actions. Thankfully I feel that Europe is progressing beyond that stage that America is in now, we are becoming more tolerant of religion. And as for it being in the name of Christianity? Thats bullshit. Every Church in Europe was condemning the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As a quote from that link says:

"I'm taken aback. The people standing in my front yard with picket signs call themselves Christians," the high priest says. "This is not Christ-like. From what I understand Christ to be, I think it's kind of hypocritical."

If Jesus came down today and saw what people were doing in his name, he would sort them out pretty quick, I can tell you.

I'm afraid that on the whole I have to agree with the guy who said 'Wiccans are usually teenage girls looking for attention' - after all, those are the only types I met. I mean... Worshipping the moon? Thats just comedy material!


I know hundreds of Wiccans and none of them worship the moon. Matter of fact, I don't know anybody who worships the moon. That's not to say they're not out there, just that in all my years in talking to Pagans in general, I have never met anyone who worships the moon.

Wiccan, no ties to 'Celtic' Druids other than how the people who created it may have wanted there to be.

The word 'Wicca' is actually Anglo Saxon for Wizard, Magician and 'Wicce' is Anglo Saxon for witch (the e on the end being the feminised version of the word. 'Wicca' would be pronounced 'Witcha' (not Wicker - as is mostly done nowadays) and 'Wicce' would be 'Witchee'. So it's really not grounded deep in 'Celtic' roots if the name is derived from an Anglo Saxon variation of the word.

Dont dislike em, it's a bit of a modern day happy-clappy interpretation, where a repect for nature tends to stretch to buying 'organically produced' products at the supermarket. Where as a respect/knowledge of nature X hundred/thousand years ago was the difference between life and death.

Still if someones spiritual outlook means that they will respect there fellow people and they wont cram it down your throat, it can't be bad.

ahahaha. Nothing like some fluffy wiccans to help you feel all 'spiritual'. Fair enough, I respect it as a belief for what it is, but most times, wiccans I meet just make me roll my eyes.

If you want to try something with some real substance, try looking into Thelema and Aleister Crowley.

93 93/93!!

ahahaha. Nothing like some fluffy wiccans to help you feel all 'spiritual'. Fair enough, I respect it as a belief for what it is, but most times, wiccans I meet just make me roll my eyes.

As someone who loosely identifies himself as neo-pagan, I agree that most "wiccans" make me roll my eyes. Then again... as someone who identifies themself as loosely Christian, most Christians make me roll my eyes. Also... as someone who has studied buddhism and is a huge fan of the works of Thich Nhat Hanh, most Buddhist practices make me roll my eyes.

Huh... most people just make me roll my eyes. I don't think it has anything to do with being of a specific faith. There's also the problem that the people who are generally the most visible are the ones who make a bad name for a particular faith.

It happens with everything. If you ever no people who are quietly gay (though not in the closet) they frequently dislike some of the more "flamingly" gay guys who seem to act like every day is a pride parade. Why? Because they give all of the moderate people a bad reputation. Same thing Wicca.


For an interesting read about Wicca, I especially like "The Wiccan Warrior" by Cerr Cuchulain (sp?). He talks about how he uses the practical principles of Wicca, with the ethical framework of the Wiccan Rede as his guide in his daily life. This is *not* some angsty teenager. This man is a police officer and has been for most of his life, during which time he has been part of a gang crime unit, and a SWAT unit. Very interesting and universally useful information.

One thing he addresses in his book that I would like to mention, is that Wicca is indeed a "made up" religion taken from different sources that Gerald Gardner found appealing and so pieced together and that Wicca is a very young religion. But guess what... *ALL* faiths are taken and pieced together from previous faiths. Christianity is certainly no exception. Just look at the holidays they have. As for it being young... so? Truth is ageless. If something holds truth, it holds truth.

I'm afraid that on the whole I have to agree with the guy who said 'Wiccans are usually teenage girls looking for attention' NWV is accusing other people of attention seeking?

Can't move. Being crushed under the heavy irony.

:D

And that little comment about being burned at the steak....

Sachka, I think you might be lost. You'd want a food discussion if you're upset about burnt steak.

There was no Wicca prior to Gerald Gardner founding it in the 1950s. Gardner did take a hodge-podge of what he felt to be his favorite aspects of older religions, but the first recorded mention of the Wiccan Rede was in a speech by Doreen Valiente on October 3, 1964.

Actually the first published mention of the religion now classified as Wicca was from 1884. Might I recommend the book "Heredity Witchcraft" which discusses these pre-Gardnerian witchcraft and in particular the root of the Italian branch.

And for the fellow asking about Witches in Maine, I know many witches in Maine, from 4 different covens even. Some are quite good friends of mine.

But, in any case, how old a religion is not really relevent. The faith of its followers is. Faith is an amazing thing. And for the record, most of the Wiccans I know are not teenagers, nor even a good portion women.

Actually the first published mention of the religion now classified as Wicca was from 1884. Might I recommend the book "Heredity Witchcraft" which discusses these pre-Gardnerian witchcraft and in particular the root of the Italian branch.

And for the fellow asking about Witches in Maine, I know many witches in Maine, from 4 different covens even. Some are quite good friends of mine.

But, in any case, how old a religion is not really relevent. The faith of its followers is. Faith is an amazing thing. And for the record, most of the Wiccans I know are not teenagers, nor even a good portion women.

Research for "Heredity witchcraft" is iffy at best, and the term Wicca as applied to a religion did not exist before 1952. Gardner created Wicca as a religion, it is the simple truth.
I have never met a serious wiccan over 25 and the number of male ones I have met is very limited. And this is not from lack of exposure to the pagan culture. I have been a practicing pagan for 20 years, have help write 3 books on the subject, and get out alot.

93 93/93!!

Uhhh, I'm sorry, but does anyone here know what that means?

Baptism is the core of LDS, from what I understand of it.

You're both wrong. It's all about giving money to the LDS church.

Sachka, I think you might be lost. You'd want a food discussion if you're upset about burnt steak.

LOL - yes, I thought I'd give the poor fella a break on that one, but it is quite amusing...

I know hundreds of Wiccans and none of them worship the moon. Matter of fact, I don't know anybody who worships the moon. That's not to say they're not out there, just that in all my years in talking to Pagans in general, I have never met anyone who worships the moon.

Stonehenge appears to be for moon worship. However, since noone actually knows, usually various Druid sects just go there and do their own thing which doesn't relate to the moon.
Also, it's more complex than just 'we love the moon' sort of worship; it's a tribute to an old style of living that was lost to the people who made it.

Research for "Heredity witchcraft" is iffy at best, and the term Wicca as applied to a religion did not exist before 1952. Gardner created Wicca as a religion, it is the simple truth.
I have never met a serious wiccan over 25 and the number of male ones I have met is very limited. And this is not from lack of exposure to the pagan culture. I have been a practicing pagan for 20 years, have help write 3 books on the subject, and get out alot.

Are you European?
I know several European male Wiccans, one of whom is 85.

Also, there was a Druidic or similar sacrifice at one of the WW1 memorials in France.
I'm not sure why I said that but now you know there was one.

You're both wrong. It's all about giving money to the LDS church.

You're probably thinking of Scientology.

Research for "Heredity witchcraft" is iffy at best, and the term Wicca as applied to a religion did not exist before 1952. Gardner created Wicca as a religion, it is the simple truth.
I have never met a serious wiccan over 25 and the number of male ones I have met is very limited. And this is not from lack of exposure to the pagan culture. I have been a practicing pagan for 20 years, have help write 3 books on the subject, and get out alot.

I know a Wiccan who is close to 60. I know people now in their 30's that were raised Wiccan.

As for Gardner, I would classify him more as coining the term Wiccan, which then has been applied to other, older traditions that properly have other names. (Aesteru being a good example)

If the Wiccan creed says you can't harm people then how do Wiccans serve in the militarty?

Says the same thing in the Torah, Quran, and King James Bible, but people do it anyway ):

Says the same thing in the Torah, Quran, and King James Bible, but people do it anyway ):
Actually God says its okay to defend your nation in the Bible as well as Quran.
I'm not sure about Torah but I'm will to bet it does.

Not everyone in the military is a combat soldier... supply and support staff, medical personnel, mechanics, sappers, intelligence... lots of things the military needs people for that don't involve firing a weapon of any kind outside of basic training.

I know a Wiccan who is close to 60. I know people now in their 30's that were raised Wiccan.

As for Gardner, I would classify him more as coining the term Wiccan, which then has been applied to other, older traditions that properly have other names. (Aesteru being a good example)

To address your first paragraph :I never said that they didn't exist, I said I had never met one. As for the age those ages are entirely possible. The 60 year old could have found it when they were younger (52 years ago when Wicca was started) and the 30 year olds could have very easily been raised Wicca since it was started some 20 years before they were born. This does not discredit the fact that wicca was started in 1952.

Your second point : Wicca did take (let me stress TAKE) from other older religions and butchered them horribly.

I have no problem with people who find spiritual fulfillment through Wicca, I just feel that people should know the facts about thier faith.

As to the comment made in an earlier post about male Wiccans, no I do not live in Europe ( I have had offers to teach there) so the male/female ratio may be different, and I am unaware of it.

Also there are sects of moon worshipers (the Daughters of Luna is one) but they worship the moon as an aspect of the divine female, not as the moon it's self.

Your second point : Wicca did take (let me stress TAKE) from other older religions and butchered them horribly.

I have no problem with people who find spiritual fulfillment through Wicca, I just feel that people should know the facts about thier faith.

Hmm, you say "take", others say "draw inspiration from" - it's a matter of personal opinion...

But, either way, Wicca would hardly be the first belief system to "plagiarize" other beliefs -Christianity springs immediately to mind. Much is taken from older "pagan" religions - Mithraism, Sumerian/Babylonian mythos, Ancient Egyptian mythos etc etc etc...

i was a practicing wiccan for several years. im not going to go through all the pages and find qoutes from post that caught my eye but i do have something to say.

wicca is a very old religion. a lot of our modern holidays come from pagan sabbaths (halloween one of them). gardner didnt create wicca he revived it. it was said that he was inducted into a old circle of wiccans that practiced traditional ways. now there are several "branches" kind of like christianity. there are the traditionalists, gardnerians, some that worship on a more faery level and some that are somewhat parallel with chrisitianity.

i found that wicca was more of a solitary religion or one you practiced with just a few close friends that had the same basic beliefs. wicca allows you to choose what your views are and worship them in your own way.

i worshipped the moon for the poster that said they have never met a witch that did. several wiccans follow the phases of the moon closely and worship in a certain way depending on the phase. maiden (waxing moon) mother (full moon) and crone (waning moon).

i also found it to be a religion that did not try and force it's views on others, unlike christianity sometimes, but instead allowed for those interested to find it. i also discovered one of the things that will piss a wiccan off more than anything was to try and argue with them on the subject of their choice of religion.

though i am a devout christian now, i still respect those who worship wicca and honor their choice of religion

Is your mind so small that you have to fall in,
with the pack wherever they run?
Will you still sneer when death is near and say that you may as well worship the sun?

Unbelievable. (This is Lindonarlin's roommate, I'm just too damn lazy to make my own screen name.)

I never thought, ever, that I would hear/see so many people expressing doubts on the religion in this manner. I studied/practiced Wicca from age 12, up until about a year ago.

To be quite honest with you it kind of pisses me off to read "Wicca was formed in the 60's, there's no proof" yadda yadda and all that bullshit. okay fine, so let's so Wicca was born/revived in the 60s, cool.. whatever. What goes to say Christianity is any different from that? Granted it would have to be earlier than the 60s, but you still get my point. As far as I'm concerned.. "It's as real as your mind will let it be"

For all we know, the bible is a comic book, and our "savior's" name, is George or something.

Bah.. sidetracked. What I'm saying, Is wicca is not so much based on gods/goddesses/deities, and more-so on nature and the elements, whereas Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, even Satanism are all based on a God, Or even a couple of gods.

I don't see how you can possible say 'living under the moon and stars, and breathing in the cool blowing breeze' was developed in the 60s. Yea, okay.. things are different now, than when Wicca was first developed.. okay, but so are most other religions. The bible was translated, and re-translated, and re-translated how many times? Not only do I feel sorry for the poor bastards who had that job, but what goes to say it was translated correctly, or that they didn't add in little.. extras.

Think about it, let me know something.

I can only speak from my own experience, but every single person I've met who has claimed to be Wiccan has been Female, and was using it as an excuse to experiment with lesbianism and kinky sex, and indulge in a variety of other parent-worrying activities (drug use, dancing around naked in forests, and so on).

I'm well aware that this is NOT what Wicca is about, but as an earlier poster said, it's the sort of image most people have, largely as a result of angsty teenage girls making up a large part of the membership.

Until recently I was under the impression the average age of a Wiccan was 15, but having met some older ones I'm prepared to accept that's not the case.

I don't think many people at all in Australia regard Wicca as an actual religion (and I'm not going to debate it's validity anymore than I'd debate the validity of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc), and I daresay most bosses and staff would laugh at a Wiccan who wanted the day off because it was the Winter Solstice or whatever. My best mate (male, amazingly, but he calls himself Pagan) is convinced that part of the reason for him losing his job was his identification as a Pagan and misunderstanding that Pagans all slaughter goats, pray to Baphomet, and so on (all crap, as we all know).

Just my observations, and not intended to be a criticism in any way...

Wow. There's so much hatred on this thread. :(

Well, I for one have known about half a dozen wiccans, all about my age, and both male and female. And I can safely say that talking with them and learning from them has made me a better Catholic and a better person in general. Don't underestimate it.



On a smaller note, Christians say "you reap what you sow". Wiccans have the law of threes, and I happen to agree with them. Things to tend to come back at you three times as hard. Especially bad things.

http://www.m-w.com
Also, Mormons would maintain that Jesus Christ is the source of their religion, as would Catholics and Protestants. Joseph Smith figures into it greatly, but to my (albeit limited) knowledge, Jesus is at the core of LDS.

Jesus is at the core of LSD? hang on sorry mix-up

Wow. There's so much hatred on this thread. :(


Don't take it to heart. People can sometimes end up quietly supportive about things they don't see a problem with.

You must admit that most people don't jump on forums and vigorously defend or trumpet the virtues of someone's religion they don't particularly dislike or like.

As I said way back on page 1, I live in something akin to a Wiccan Mecca. There are hundreds of Wiccans in this area that I personally know; who knows how many thousands actually live here. I'm not Wiccan myself so I really don't know enough about them to defend their history vigorously, nor do I really care to defend them in my ignorance.

Its those with something to say; some strong stance to dress up and parade about in, they are the ones who speak loudly on these forums. A vocal minority.