NationStates Jolt Archive

Sign up if your a european patriot and show your support for the motherland.

Finally, a proactive European that respects his country. A rare find, indeed, or at least on these forums.

Germany! But we tend to call it "fatherland". Not "motherland" :)
I guess we can be patriotic of the EU soon, once all national borders have truly been removed. Do you think we should graciously allow the UK in - totally I mean. With currency and all that?

ironic that you criticize americans for being patriotic.

ironic that you criticize americans for being patriotic.
*Overly*. Not patriotic. Being patriotic is fine. But being oppressively patriotic and imperialistic is not fine.

Do you think we should graciously allow the UK in - totally I mean. With currency and all that?
*ahem* Some of us in the UK want to be a full part of the EU, thankyouverymuch. (Although I don't see why the single currency should be a compulsory issue. At least, not in the short term and not when it would weaken a country's economy.)

*Overly*. Not patriotic. Being patriotic is fine. But being oppressively patriotic and imperialistic is not fine.
I could comment on Europe's history on imperialism and nationalism all day long, but my hands are freezing and my brother won't let me turn off the A/C

Can I be an honorary European Patriot? I live in Arizona, but I'm a Canadian citizen. And a socialist. Pleeeeaaaassse?

What about an American who just thinks Europe is awesome?

How about...no nationalism. Let's all be proud citizens of the world, hmm?

If you dont live in Europe, you cant be patriotic to it. You can admire it though, thats ok. Of course, only if you got the permission to do so from the U$;)

*Signs the thread*

I love Europe too, but I really don't want to see a federal European Superstate. I don't want my homeland to be another USA or USSR.

I am afraid that the EU as a federal state will refuse to recognize the different cultures and peoples within the EU. Many countries in Europe already do that which will finally lead to the destruction of rich cultures in Europe.

We can work together but we Europeans are certainly not one people, and we certainly do not have one culture.

Damn stupid nations and stupid borders.... why carve and split things like that? We're just a species -among millions- that happens to inhabit this planet.

Sign up if your a european patriot and show your support for the motherland.

I concur with previous sentiments; making a thread about your "patriotism" is a way to steal attention and to simply rile up the Americans you denounce as being "overly patriotic."

In my eyes, your "announcement" of European patriotism is the same thing as Americans announcing ours, except, you expect us to just accept it and move on, when you show us nothing of the same attitude.

I'm an Australian with German heritage. Can I join? :P

I love Europe too, but I really don't want to see a federal European Superstate. I don't want my homeland to be another USA or USSR.
and i certainly dont want to be some to be some unimportant spot in the world with the usa pushing us around as they please. and the only option to this is to work together, and that means working together with countrys you dont like, maybe even despire, but really, is there an option? dont think so. they should only not try to make us to some mix of cultures and nations like the usa is. uniqueness is the great. hail old europe! :D

Using varying definitions, I'm European, British, English, Kentish, Eurasian, a Londoner, Irish, possibly French, possibly Romany... ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

It doesn't matter how large or small the patch of soil and grit, it's still just soil and grit. I won't choose 'Europe' - geographical or political - over anywhere else just on the basis of the (mis)fortune of being born here.

If I may paraphrase the late Bill Hicks, patriotism is stupid. You're only the nationality you are because your parents chose to fuck there.

Shouldn't this be titled "Thead for those who like Empire building"?

Pax Europa!

Meh, I probably have more 'patriotism' to Manchester then to Europe.

As Napolean once said "History is the version of the past people can agree on"!!!

Gimme a european superstate anyday!

I'm a strong believer that a Federal Europe is what we need. Guess that makes me literally a European patriot.

I'm a strong believer that a Federal Europe is what we need. Guess that makes me literally a European patriot.

Same here, although I wouldn't be a patriot of it unless I agreed with it's values.

Yeah, show your support for the motherland raping the Third World. Fantastic.

I love Europe too, but I really don't want to see a federal European Superstate. I don't want my homeland to be another USA or USSR.
Hear, hear. Although when you think about it another way, countries don't really exist as entities. They're just there to distract us from who's really in charge these days--power elites. And European, Israeli, and Japanese power elites are just as guilty, by using the existence of welfare states to get Europeans, and to a lesser extent Japanese and Israelis, to thumb their noses at Americans, and to distract them from the fact that their leaders are doing the same.

I concur with previous sentiments; making a thread about your "patriotism" is a way to steal attention and to simply rile up the Americans you denounce as being "overly patriotic."

In my eyes, your "announcement" of European patriotism is the same thing as Americans announcing ours, except, you expect us to just accept it and move on, when you show us nothing of the same attitude.

Nope, European patriotism is different.

It is questioning your Government, regulating your businesses and ripping down a member of the Government if they make a mistake (unlike America). European patriotism isn't about our military forces, as patriotism is in America, its about our culture, which happens to be far richer than yours. And as this is a thread for European Patriots, and as all you are doing is flaming, can you please leave?

As Napolean once said "History is the version of the past people can agree on"!!!

Gimme a european superstate anyday!

Here, here!

Nope, European patriotism is different.

It is questioning your Government, regulating your businesses and ripping down a member of the Government if they make a mistake (unlike America). European patriotism isn't about our military forces, as patriotism is in America, its about our culture, which happens to be far richer than yours. And as this is a thread for European Patriots, and as all you are doing is flaming, can you please leave?
Patriotism is patriotism is patriotism. You can define it how you want but that doesn't make it gospel truth.

And, please, Tuesday's comments hardly constitute flaming.

and i certainly dont want to be some to be some unimportant spot in the world with the usa pushing us around as they please. and the only option to this is to work together, and that means working together with countrys you dont like, maybe even despire, but really, is there an option? dont think so. they should only not try to make us to some mix of cultures and nations like the usa is. uniqueness is the great. hail old europe! :D

Yeh, Hail 'Bold' Europe!

The New EC President (Barosso) is just an American puppet, I am sure that if they don't stay out of our affairs soon, some major shit is going to go down.

Patriotism is patriotism is patriotism. You can define it how you want but that doesn't make it gospel truth.

And, please, Tuesday's comments hardly constitute flaming.

Nope. Americans make 'patriotic' threads all the time. Yet they never make any reference to thier culture (as they don't have any) - all they make reference to is how much they love the President and how this makes them patriotic. I am proud of EUROPE. Not of EUROPES LEADERS AND GOVERNMENTS.

I could comment on Europe's history on imperialism and nationalism all day long, but my hands are freezing and my brother won't let me turn off the A/C

I could comment on America's history on imperialism and nationalism all day long, but I won't as Americans misunderstand patriotism to mean 'must never question your Government'.

NWV, you really need to learn that - shock, horror! - not all Americans think the same way. Your blind Euro-centricism and wanton USA-bashing just pours more fuel on the fire.

NWV, you really need to learn that - shock, horror! - not all Americans think the same way. Your blind Euro-centricism and wanton USA-bashing just pours more fuel on the fire.

Blind Euro-Centricism?

So it's Ok for Americans to make threads like "DONT INSULT THE PRESIDENT MAN!!!! HES A PATRIOT!!!"

But when some Europeans want to feel proud of thier rich culture, great foods and wonderful History - you try and stop us? hah!

Yet they never make any reference to thier culture (as they don't have any)
Even though I am not American, I could probably make a few stabs at what I like about American culture.

So it's Ok for Americans to make threads like "DONT INSULT THE PRESIDENT MAN!!!! HES A PATRIOT!!!"
Yes, especially as plenty of people will wade in to criticise their viewpoint in the same way I'm criticising yours.

But when some Europeans want to feel proud of thier rich culture, great foods and wonderful History - you try and stop us? hah!
I'm not being specific with regards to geography. I'm criticising ALL patriotism. Just because you're European rather than American doesn't let you off the hook. I'd have less of a problem with your patriotism if it wasn't coupled with flagrant anti-Americanism.

But when some Europeans want to feel proud of thier rich culture, great foods and wonderful History - you try and stop us? hah!
WE ROCK!!!
lol its true

Nope, European patriotism is different.

Tell me point-by-point how European patriotism is different than American; I don't mean your interpretation. I'd like an actual study or actual facts about this.

And as this is a thread for European Patriots, and as all you are doing is flaming, can you please leave?

I wasn't flaming at all; I was merely stating a fact that I believe your opinion of this situation is wrong, thus, pointing it out. That's neither flaming or flamebaiting.

Back on topic now, I am an American patriot.

I do not cower behind my government and let them rule the world; in fact, I'm an at odds right now against our government because of the mere fact that I'm engaged to a woman. That's right world, Tuesday Heights is a lesbian, and my President wants to Constitutionally amend our most sacred document to exclude me - and millions of others - from enjoying a right of freedom humans deserve.

Am I fan of how others view American "patriotism?" Absolutely not, because some people - like yourself - seem to lump us all into one category and forget that not all of us are the "American patriots" you see flashing themselves all across the world.

I am not like the patriots you define, and I am not going to sit back and let you slander my image, because you are too close-minded that you can't just lump us all together.

Even your European friends herer have different interpretations of their "patriotism;" well, guess what? So do Americans, and I'm one of them.

If I may paraphrase the late Bill Hicks, patriotism is stupid. You're only the nationality you are because your parents chose to fuck there.
That's my basic philosophy as well...

You European patriots might find Jeremy Rifkin's new book "The European Dream" amusing.

Can't really say if he's spot on or not, since I've only visited USA once and I have better things to do than waste my days comparing USA and the EU... But it has nice points though:
- Americans "live to work" while Europeans "work to live".
- The American Dream is worth dying for, The European one worth living for.
- Meh, you can read yourselves... check it out if you want...

What comes to the topic of this thread... I'm moderaly patriotic. I wouldn't like to see my country being pushed around, but what I'd really hate to do, is to go waving my country's flag in the streets. I tried for awhile to say "I'm European" when asked, but I have difficulties being 'patriotic' towards something that is far from ready. I really need to see the results of the eastern enlargement first. What I really need to see is all the members following the same set of rules what comes to meeting the agreed goals (this is about the economical criteria, and how 'the big ones' let it slide, but it isn't interesting).

Here's some links (related to that Rifkin book... or not) in case you are interested:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1585423459/002-3092207-6633653?v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1585423459/002-3092207-6633653?v=glance


Oh! And I think there's some differences in patriotism between USA and most European nations. It's just an impression I have, no data to back it up. But so what if it is different? What if they really are more patriotic? Good for them.

I'd have less of a problem with your patriotism if it wasn't coupled with flagrant anti-Americanism.

Sorry, here in Europe we have something called free speech get used to it, and maybe you will have it some day. I don't see what is wrong with being 'anti-american' at all.

Sorry, here in Europe we have something called free speech get used to it, and maybe you will have it some day. I don't see what is wrong with being 'anti-american' at all.
but we DARE say something about Europe and it's OMG WTF NO YOU ARE WRONG, LEMME GIVE YOU RANDOM ECONOMY STATISTICS ABOUT 30 COUNTRIES LOOSELY BOUND VERSES YOUR PUNY COUNTRY! HA OUR EURO IS WORTH 1.2 OF YOURS! YOU LOSE! MWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA11111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

Sorry, here in Europe we have something called free speech get used to it, and maybe you will have it some day. I don't see what is wrong with being 'anti-american' at all.

Do you hate every American?

I could comment on America's history on imperialism and nationalism all day long, but I won't as Americans misunderstand patriotism to mean 'must never question your Government'.
bull, I talk crap about my government all the time. And yet I'm very patriotic about my country.


Oh, and just a heads up. Your history is longer and is filled with much...much more bloodshed than ours. Hell, our history starts off with Europeon imperialism.

Tell me point-by-point how European patriotism is different than American; I don't mean your interpretation. I'd like an actual study or actual facts about this.



I wasn't flaming at all; I was merely stating a fact that I believe your opinion of this situation is wrong, thus, pointing it out. That's neither flaming or flamebaiting.

Back on topic now, I am an American patriot.

I do not cower behind my government and let them rule the world; in fact, I'm an at odds right now against our government because of the mere fact that I'm engaged to a woman. That's right world, Tuesday Heights is a lesbian, and my President wants to Constitutionally amend our most sacred document to exclude me - and millions of others - from enjoying a right of freedom humans deserve.

Am I fan of how others view American "patriotism?" Absolutely not, because some people - like yourself - seem to lump us all into one category and forget that not all of us are the "American patriots" you see flashing themselves all across the world.

I am not like the patriots you define, and I am not going to sit back and let you slander my image, because you are too close-minded that you can't just lump us all together.

Even your European friends herer have different interpretations of their "patriotism;" well, guess what? So do Americans, and I'm one of them.

Nope, your patriotism revolves around things such as 'pledging alegiance to the flag' (i.e. Pledging allegiance to the Government - indoctrination at a young age). Your 'patriotism' has encouraged racism, xenophobia and blood-revenge like no other after 9/11.

Europeans are proud. But we are proud of our culture, not our slack jawed, ignorant armies.

Get used to it, because quite frankly, America has no culture so it has to resort to things such as its Military for Patriotism.

Does Nazi have ANY clue at all? I mean really....America having no culture? That's the biggest crock of bullshit I've ever heard....this day.

but we DARE say something about Europe and it's OMG WTF NO YOU ARE WRONG, LEMME GIVE YOU RANDOM ECONOMY STATISTICS ABOUT 30 COUNTRIES LOOSELY BOUND VERSES YOUR PUNY COUNTRY! HA OUR EURO IS WORTH 1.2 OF YOURS! YOU LOSE! MWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA11111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111

They are hardly loosely bound. Your own states are very loosely bound in terms of thier independance from Federal Government.

, America has no culture
Could you justify this?

bull, I talk crap about my government all the time. And yet I'm very patriotic about my country.


Oh, and just a heads up. Your history is longer and is filled with much...much more bloodshed than ours. Hell, our history starts off with Europeon imperialism.


Oh... Don't worry - you're more than catching up to us in terms of the 'bloodiness' of our History. And may I enquire as to what is American Culture? You know, like National Dress, and National Foods e.t.c?

Could you justify this?

Well for one, when people in Europe look at America they don't see acountry with a National Dress, National Dish, A Rich History e.t.c - all they see is an imperialist nation enforcing Hegemony wherever it can.

I am proud to be European, not because I love my Government to the point of blindness (like Americans) but because I love the culture. I love Europe for the people, not for the Military or the Government like Americans do.

Europe is not a country. So such a thing like European patriotism doesn´t exist. There is British, French, Italian, Polish, Spanish, Greek, e.g. patriotism towards once country.
A patriotism towards Europe doesn´t exist.

Oh... Don't worry - you're more than catching up to us in terms of the 'bloodiness' of our History. And may I enquire as to what is American Culture? You know, like National Dress, and National Foods e.t.c?
Whatever.

We don't need a natioanl dress, food, whatever. Know why? Our culture is mixed up of so many different nationalities that we cannot possibly have a real national anything, except symbols and junk.

Chinese, Vietnamise, Germans (suck it up, there are plenty of Germans here), Pakistanis, Indonesians, Zambians, Colombians....


dude, that's culture. Everyone's culture. Isn't that a culture?

Well for one, when people in Europe look at America they don't see acountry with a National Dress, National Dish, A Rich History e.t.c - all they see is an imperialist nation enforcing Hegemony wherever it can.

I am proud to be European, not because I love my Government to the point of blindness (like Americans) but because I love the culture. I love Europe for the people, not for the Military or the Government like Americans do.
Your government is nothing more than a bunch of people shaking hands. Worse than our own.

Europe is not a country. So such a thing like European patriotism doesn´t exist. There is British, French, Italian, Polish, Spanish, Greek, e.g. patriotism towards once country.
A patriotism towards Europe doesn´t exist.

Nope, according to a Gallup poll, its starting to surface because of Anti-European sentiment in America.

Whatever.

We don't need a natioanl dress, food, whatever. Know why? Our culture is mixed up of so many different nationalities that we cannot possibly have a real national anything, except symbols and junk.

Chinese, Vietnamise, Germans (suck it up, there are plenty of Germans here), Pakistanis, Indonesians, Zambians, Colombians....


dude, that's culture. Everyone's culture. Isn't that a culture?

You mean your country's culture is basically made up of the immigrants culture?

Nope, according to a Gallup poll, its starting to surface because of Anti-European sentiment in America.
or do you mean your own conclusions based on your media?

Your government is nothing more than a bunch of people shaking hands. Worse than our own.

Oh yes I'm sure. How dare we do something as civilised as 'shake hands'. Dear, dear. Scared of Europe, scared of Europeans as they say.

And at least we don't have as half-brained a populace to elect somebody whose IQ is so low, a monkey could outsmart him.

You mean your country's culture is basically made up of the immigrants culture?
Yes, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's better. I can go to one city with nothing but Chinese. And go a little more South and hang with nothing but Mexicans.

http://img.www.france.com/docs/european_flag_lead.jpg
May God bless the European Union and the European Commission President.

*chuckles*

Anyway, this is just to illustrate how I feel the European 'patriotism' is different from American patriotism (which seems to focus on geocities websites of dogs dressed up in clothing resembling the stars and stripes) *shrugs*

I guess I am a European patriot, believing in the merits of a Federal Europe and, if you will, the European Dream. As difficult as things may be since our continent is far from perfect. Still, I think have have to try. If you want to call that patriotism that is fine with me.

or do you mean your own conclusions based on your media?
If you want to get in a discussion about who has the most unbias media. I am happy to olige. As Chomsky says 'The Uniformity and Obedience of The US Media would please any dictator'.

Well for one, when people in Europe look at America they don't see acountry with a National Dress,

To be honest, our 'national' dress is little better, the Scots' are cooler. (btw, I am refering to Morris dancing outfits, but pray tell, what is the English national dress?)

National Dish

You may as well ask for Europe's "National dish," America is too large to have a single 'national dish'

, A Rich History

I would say that America's history is very rich. Admitedly it hasn't been around long, but it still has a rich history.

e.t.c

Frex. Literarature? (Mark Twain, JD Salinger, John Steinbeck, Arthur Miller, I could go on for a long time)

Music? The Blues, soul, this doesn't mention the accomplishments of individual artists but as Buddy Holly, Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Otis Reading etc. Plus a plethora of more modern ones.

Art? Personally, I am no great shake at Art, so I'll look past this one.

Cinema? (Look past the huge amount of bullshit, there are some very good American Movies)

and my favourite part of American Culture, Stand Up.

I am proud to be European, not because I love my Government to the point of blindness (like Americans) but because I love the culture. I love Europe for the people, not for the Military or the Government like Americans do.
And are Americans not able to love their country for the culture, the people etc and not the government nor military?

I guess I am a [i]European patriot, believing in the merits of a Federal Europe and, if you will, the European Dream. As difficult as things may be since our continent is far from perfect. Still, I think have have to try. If you want to call that patriotism that is fine with me.

Thank you my fellow European, you speak the sense of somebody who hails from the continent.

If you want to get in a discussion about who has the most unbias media. I am happy to olige. As Chomsky says 'The Uniformity and Obedience of The US Media would please any dictator'.
No, I was talking about you sucking up to your own media.

You mean your country's culture is basically made up of the immigrants culture?
And Britain is any different?

To be honest, our 'national' dress is little better, the Scots' are cooler. (btw, I am refering to Morris dancing outfits, but pray tell, what is the English national dress?)

I'm Greek, not English. Our National Dress is like what the Elite Presidential Guard wear outside the War Memorial.


You may as well ask for Europe's "National dish," America is too large to have a single 'national dish'

All European countries have a national dish.


I would say that America's history is very rich. Admitedly it hasn't been around long, but it still has a rich history.

I know, all those countries you enforced Hegemony on, such a rich History.


Frex. Literarature? (Mark Twain, JD Salinger, John Steinbeck, Arthur Miller, I could go on for a long time)

You honestly believe your literature is better than ours?

One word: Shakespeare


Music? The Blues, soul, this doesn't mention the accomplishments of individual artists but as Buddy Holly, Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Otis Reading etc. Plus a plethora of more modern ones.

And look at the Music you pump out now


Art? Personally, I am no great shake at Art, so I'll look past this one.

Holbein and Van Gogh - the best ever.


Cinema? (Look past the huge amount of bullshit, there are some very good American Movies)

The ratio of bullshit to good is 50:1


and my favourite part of American Culture, Stand Up.


And are Americans not able to love their country for the culture, the people etc and not the government nor military?

Thier Military is a bunch of Southerners who marry thier sisters.

[QUOTE=Conceptualists]To be honest, our 'national' dress is little better, the Scots' are cooler. (btw, I am refering to Morris dancing outfits, but pray tell, what is the English national dress?)

Based on the errant youth (scallies,chavs, townies whatever) you'll see around shopping centres and outside off liscenses up and down the land shell suits and burbery caps! - bring back the bowler and pin stripe all is forgiven!

And Britain is any different?

As I said, I'm Greek

To hell with Federal Europe! Within twenty years you'll all be living under the heel of imperialistic dictators. Scottish Imperialistic Dictators! That's right! We're breaking away and forming the Scottish Empire and our first goal will be the invasion and conquest of England!

Oh flower of Scotland,
when will we seeeeeee
Your like agaaaain?!!
(ect)

As I said, I'm Greek
The lack of discipline and order in South Europe is know around the world. I wonder that you finished everything in time for the olympics. That is more of a surprise than anything else.
The traffic in South Europe (I know Rome) is chaotic.
So, lets do some South-European bashing, hehehehe.
I´m tired of all this America bashing. Why not starting a bit South-European-bashing????

I'm Greek, not English. Our National Dress is like what the Elite Presidential Guard wear outside the War Memorial.

I've seen tham, not being anti-Greek. But I think they look rediculous [sic] (Not as bad as our Beefeaters though).

All European countries have a national dish

I never said otherwise, but that America is too large and different to have a single national dish, hence why I said it is similar to asking for Europe's (or any continent's) national dish

I know, all those countries you enforced Hegemony on, such a rich History.

I'm no yank mate ;)
But hey, since I'm British, I suppose it works.

You honestly believe your literature is better than ours?

One word: Shakespeare

See above, about me not being a yank. But I still can appreciate a good book.

And look at the Music you pump out now

OK, I'll ignore the assumption I'm American (as if the Manchester/Liverpool under my name didn't give it away). But, yes America churns out some real crap, but so does Britain. And like Britain, it has some decent bands too.

Holbein and Van Gogh - the best ever.

Not my cup of tea, I like Dali.

The ratio of bullshit to good is 50:1

Still, it is there, and that is all that matters. The difference is that Holywood is a fully fledged industry, we really don't have anything to compare to.

Thier Military is a bunch of Southerners who marry thier sisters.

Non sequiter (and borderline flaming), not to mention evading the question. Anyway, you said America had no culture rather than Europe has better culture.

The lack of discipline and order in South Europe is know around the world. I wonder that you finished everything in time for the olympics. That is more of a surprise than anything else.
The traffic in South Europe (I know Rome) is chaotic.
So, lets do some South-European bashing, hehehehe.
I´m tired of all this America bashing. Why not starting a bit South-European-bashing????

35 Million below the poverty line.

Some inner city areas = Third World Standard of Living

Electorate who voted in George Bush

I'll think we will keep the America Bashing thank you.

I've seen tham, not being anti-Greek. But I think they look rediculous [sic] (Not as bad as our Beefeaters though).

Its our National Dress, and it looks good.

As I said, I'm Greek
What has that got to do with anything.

One of the people you referenced in trying to show that European culture is better (Shakespeare) is British. You attack America for having a history of huge immigration, which is similar to Britain (although not on the same scale), but are you allowed to ignore this integral member of Europe when and how you please?

As Chomsky says 'The Uniformity and Obedience of The US Media would please any dictator'. CHOMSKY IS ANTI-SEMITIC AND AN EVIL COMMUNIST LIBERAL WHO WANTS TO DESTROY FREEDOM!

35 Million below the poverty line.

Some inner city areas = Third World Standard of Living

Electorate who voted in George Bush

I'll think we will keep the America Bashing thank you.
Congrats. Now try saying something that doesn't involve the government, or isn't the fault of the government.

Its our National Dress, and it looks good.
Meh, it is an opinion and you are entitled to it. I respect your liking of the Greek national dress, I just hope you respect my opinion that it looks ridiculous.

What has that got to do with anything.

One of the people you referenced in trying to show that European culture is better (Shakespeare) is British. You attack America for having a history of huge immigration, which is similar to Britain (although not on the same scale), but are you allowed to ignore this integral member of Europe when and how you please?

Because most Europeans don't want Britain and their ultra far right Conservative Party in the EU. If you want to be the 51st state, thats fine with us.

Meh, it is an opinion and you are entitled to it. I respect your liking of the Greek national dress, I just hope you respect my opinion that it looks ridiculous.

But does Britain have a national dress?

Congrats. Now try saying something that doesn't involve the government, or isn't the fault of the government.

You continue to vote in far right Presidents - it is your fault.

Because most Europeans don't want Britain and their ultra far right Conservative Party in the EU. If you want to be the 51st state, thats fine with us.
Source?

And if Europe feels that way, why did you use Shakespeare to prove that European culture is better. Especially since there are many worthy continental candidates (including one from your country).

Anyway, lovely speaking to you but i must be off. ;)

You attack America for having a history of huge immigration, which is similar to Britain (although not on the same scale), but are you allowed to ignore this integral member of Europe when and how you please? I think it's the UK that ignores Europe.

You continue to vote in far right Presidents - it is your fault.
Thank you for forcing actions I have never done upon me.

First off, I'm a minor. I cannot vote.

Second, I'm a Liberal.

Third, you haven't yet figured out that Bush ****ed his way into office yet, have you?

But does Britain have a national dress?
Not as far as I am aware nor care. Does that mean we have no culture?

Not as far as I am aware nor care. Does that mean we have no culture?

You used to have culture. Before 'Youth Culture' came along.

Thank you for forcing actions I have never done upon me.

First off, I'm a minor. I cannot vote.

Second, I'm a Liberal.

Third, you haven't yet figured out that Bush ****ed his way into office yet, have you?

America 'Liberal' = Conservative in Europe

And 54% of people say they will vote for Bush in the recent polls.

America 'Liberal' = Conservative in Europe

And 54% of people say they will vote for Bush in the recent polls.
the polls results change every week

the real number is between 47%-49%, after about a dozen or so polls I've seen this month

And Europe is such a liberal paradise, far too lefty for me.


But we're not talking about YOUR standard of right/lefties. We're talking about the American standard, you claim I'm a Conservative. Well your wrong. If you want to attack Liberal/Conservative standards, attack by the standards of your....atackee....


Attackee?

Euroasia!

Be as it may and that you are a hypocrite for being blinded by your own "patriotism" (or should I say nationalism?). I'm leaving. I only had 4 hours of sleep and I feel an urge to flame, just to get through to Nazi's head. But I'm much, much more civilized than that. Which is more than I can say for others.

the polls results change every week

the real number is between 47%-49%, after about a dozen or so polls I've seen this month

And Europe is such a liberal paradise, far too lefty for me.


But we're not talking about YOUR standard of right/lefties. We're talking about the American standard, you claim I'm a Conservative. Well your wrong. If you want to attack Liberal/Conservative standards, attack by the standards of your....atackee....


Attackee?

I don't think American 'Liberals' are Liberal, thats all.

And Europe is a Liberal Paradise, thats why its the greatest continent on earth.

35 Million below the poverty line.

Some inner city areas = Third World Standard of Living

Electorate who voted in George Bush

I'll think we will keep the America Bashing thank you.
OK. Why did you chose that name??? Greece was after all occupied by the Nazis, like other countries. ´That was a bad time for your country. So, why did you chose that name which refers to the darkest period in European history (aside Stalinism of course)?

But lets look to some facts.
GDP Greece in 2001: 11430 $ per capita

GDP Germany in 2001: 23560 $ per capita
average growth rate 1990-2001: 1,5%, unenployment (2002) 9,8% (West Germany 7,9%, East Germany 18,0%)

GDP USA in 2001: 34 280 $ per capita
average growth rate 1990-2001: 3,4%, unemployment (2002) 5,8% (today only about 5%)

And shall I really start about the living conditions in Southern Italy or other parts of South and even more East Europe????

Seems to me that you managed to hijack your own thread and make it a America-Europe slugfest NWV. Nice, we didn't have enough of them.

The idea was nice though... it would have been interesting to see how Europeans feel about/see patriotism.

Seems to me that you managed to hijack your own thread and make it a America-Europe slugfest NWV. Nice, we didn't have enough of them.

The idea was nice though... it would have been interesting to see how Europeans feel about/see patriotism.

I think that was his intent from the start ;)

I'm a Brit and I don't feel the slightest bit of patriotism towrds Europe. I can see why we have to cooperate with trade. But with the exception of trade, why would I feel any kind of loyalty towards Europe?

And Nazi Virus guy, why did you give Shakespeare as an example of European culture when you so obviously despise us?

You used to have culture. Before 'Youth Culture' came along.
It is usually spelt 'Yoof' (if you want to be particuarly pretentious).

But anyway. So centuries of history, literature, art etc. has suddenly counted for nought because of the recent wave of kiddies?

I assume so does the Westend, the British film scene (it has turned out a few good films), Opera the Theatre, live music scene?

Speaking of European intergration, do you ever think Russia will ever be accepted as part of Europe?

And Nazi Virus guy, why did you give Shakespeare as an example of European culture when you so obviously despise us?
Don't bother asking, he ignores things he cannot answer for.

the real number is between 47%-49%, after about a dozen or so polls I've seen this month
Attackee?
Europe is not as left wing as you think. At the end of the 1990s there was a left dominance (1998: 13 of 15 countries with at least the participation of a left-wing party). But before 1997 Britain, France and Germany all had conservative governments.
Today again there are much more conservative governments than left-wing. The change started with the Austrian election in 1999. Since them the European left is in decline over all. As said - today more countries are ruled by conservatives. Even Greece by the way where the change towards the political right just happened this year.

Don't bother asking, he ignores things he cannot answer for.

Also, because NWV can't provide sources for any of his "facts." :rolleyes:

I'm done here, I don't debate with ignorant, close-minded posters.

I think that was his intent from the start


Sooo true ... obvious flaimbait starting material

But *gasp* how would he get anyone to take a look with another outright "America Sucks" thread

Well, anyways... has anybody read the book i mentioned in post... #40summink? or looked at the sites i posted.
Any ideas?
And no need to go bananas either way.

P.S. Reading that art/culture thing, OH! i damn near cried.
I'm a cultural relativist... I think it's rather hard to judge another culture from another culture's moral/artistic/add your own, standpoints... but never would I have believed an European and an American can claim to be so culturally different.

I'm a Brit and I don't feel the slightest bit of patriotism towrds Europe. I can see why we have to cooperate with trade. But with the exception of trade, why would I feel any kind of loyalty towards Europe.

Me too.I would rather be the 51st state of the US(some would say we already are!)any day of the week that trust a French or Italian politician to handle any of our affairs.

Me too.I would rather be the 51st state of the US(some would say we already are!)any day of the week that trust a French or Italian politician to handle any of our affairs.
And what makes you think that an American one would be any better (or a British one for that matter)?

Me too.I would rather be the 51st state of the US(some would say we already are!)any day of the week that trust a French or Italian politician to handle any of our affairs.
You're putting words into my mouth here. It doesn't have to be either way. I don't think we should have bothered with Iraq as it was never our war. But I don't want to be ruled by Europe either. Let us cooperate with trade, but all other areas of our life should remain completely seperate.

Me too.I would rather be the 51st state of the US(some would say we already are!)any day of the week that trust a French or Italian politician to handle any of our affairs.

Yeh, its not like we've got UK representatives in Europe who are also handling ours and their affairs too. :rolleyes:

You're putting words into my mouth here. It doesn't have to be either way. I don't think we should have bothered with Iraq as it was never our war. But I don't want to be ruled by Europe either. Let us cooperate with trade, but all other areas of our life should remain completely seperate.


I think Bush is a retard but would still rather be US led than European.The thing is we ARE being led into a federal europe full of selfish self serving corrupt politicians.Of course I would rather be independant of both.Infact I would really like the end of the UK and an independant England.

Yeh, its not like we've got UK representatives in Europe who are also handling ours and their affairs too. :rolleyes:

Yes by compromising and making deals(i.e. backing down).This means we pay more money(as the 4th largest econ)and get less in return.Of course europe has a long history of honesty and cooperation between politicians doesn't it? :headbang:

Yes by compromising and making deals(i.e. backing down).This means we pay more money(as the 4th largest econ)and get less in return.Of course <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=europe&v=56">europe</a> has a long history of honesty and cooperation between politicians doesn't it? :headbang:
You are only the forth largest economy of the EU???? Don´t believe that.
I believe you are second. You are supposed to be before France and Italy. Germany has a higher population, so it lays of course in front. But who do you think is the biggest payer? Well, Germany of course.
And of course they don´t get the same out as they pay in as well. It are the poorer regions for which the support is meant.
Northern Ireland gets money, parts of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and the new memers from East Europe.
So what?
Britain pays less than it is supposed to in respect of its economic strength due to the British reduction.
And after all you have free access to the European market.
Everything has its price after all.

Yes by compromising and making deals(i.e. backing down).This means we pay more money(as the 4th largest econ)and get less in return.Of course europe has a long history of honesty and cooperation between politicians doesn't it? :headbang:

Well at least we're compromising and making deals instead of waging wars upon each other.We'e backed down alot less often than u think. As for honesty and cooperation, I don't think the UK Parliament has a long history of that either.

Yes by compromising and making deals(i.e. backing down).This means we pay more money(as the 4th largest econ)and get less in return.Of course europe has a long history of honesty and cooperation between politicians doesn't it? :headbang:
You act like you are the only one. The Netherlands pay's more then every other member in percentages of the GDP. Germany pay's the most in real money. So stop whining.

You are only the forth largest economy of the EU???? Don´t believe that.

NO!

DONT BELIEVE ECONOMIC FACT!

ITS WRONG!

Me too.I would rather be the 51st state of the US(some would say we already are!)any day of the week that trust a French or Italian politician to handle any of our affairs.

Please! Go and be the 51st State - go and see what happens to your civil liberties and political freedoms. You will have to vote for a movie star.... or a porn star!!! Because thier electorate is so intelligent!

(And no, I know very well this moron does not speak on behalf of all British)

You act like you are the only one. The Netherlands pay's more then every other member in percentages of the GDP. Germany pay's the most in real money. So stop whining.

Good.

Some Germans, they always talk sense about Europe rather than the patriotism induced drivel that some English spout.

Please! Go and be the 51st State - go and see what happens to your civil liberties and political freedoms. You will have to vote for a movie star.... or a porn star!!! Because thier electorate is so intelligent!

(And no, I know very well this moron does not speak on behalf of all British)
That actually wouldn't be true. Britain is currently 1/5 of the US population. If they became the 51st state, they'd have the most seats in Congress, and the most electoral votes by far. They're twice as large as California, which is half as large as the next largest state, New York.

That actually wouldn't be true. Britain is currently 1/5 of the US population. If they became the 51st state, they'd have the most seats in Congress, and the most electoral votes by far. They're twice as large as California, which is half as large as the next largest state, New York.

Don't get your hopes up, our leaders aren't as 'patriotic' as the half wits that bash the EU.

Don't get your hopes up, our leaders aren't as 'patriotic' as the half wits that bash the EU.
I was just saying that Britain as an American state would bring a lot of political weight.

I was just saying that Britain as an American state would bring a lot of political weight.

True, but as Britain as far more to the left (as the rest of the MEDC's of the World are), it is most likely the other states would sabotage any efforts of The UK to bring in legislation that is not to thier liking, i.e. Anti Gun laws.

Re: Brittain as a US State.

Please people, it aint gonna happen. There are too many reasons why it is completely ridicilous. I thought this thread was about Europe?

Re: Brittain as a US State.

Please people, it aint gonna happen. There are too many reasons why it is completely ridicilous. I thought this thread was about Europe?

The Americans hated the fact Europeans could feel patriotism, and so hijacked it.

Sorry, here in Europe we have something called free speech get used to it, and maybe you will have it some day. I don't see what is wrong with being 'anti-american' at all.
If I may direct your attention to some earlier comments:

Using varying definitions, I'm European, British, English, Kentish, Eurasian, a Londoner, Irish, possibly French, possibly Romany... ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
In other words, I'm in Europe and am blessed with this free speech that - apparently - Americans do not themselves possess.


So it's Ok for Americans to make threads like "DONT INSULT THE PRESIDENT MAN!!!! HES A PATRIOT!!!"

Yes, especially as plenty of people will wade in to criticise their viewpoint in the same way I'm criticising yours.
In other words, I’m an advocate of free speech. Freedom of reply as well, buddy.

http://img.www.france.com/docs/european_flag_lead.jpg
May God bless the European Union and the European Commission President.

*chuckles*

Anyway, this is just to illustrate how I feel the European 'patriotism' is different from American patriotism (which seems to focus on geocities websites of dogs dressed up in clothing resembling the stars and stripes) *shrugs*

I guess I am a European patriot, believing in the merits of a Federal Europe and, if you will, the European Dream. As difficult as things may be since our continent is far from perfect. Still, I think have have to try. If you want to call that patriotism that is fine with me.

It is truly bizarre that someone can find a few pictures of a fat old white guy with a US flag painted on his stomach and then proceed to claim that is representative of the US as a whole. Perhaps we should start judging all Europeans based upon the appearance and actions of soccer hooligans (football hooligans for you Europeans).

You act like you are the only one. The Netherlands pay's more then every other member in percentages of the GDP. Germany pay's the most in real money. So stop whining.

Has anyone seen the image of the counter that shows how much money Germany owes EU, its pretty much. It tick's 1000e/h

Germany! But we tend to call it "fatherland". Not "motherland" :)
I guess we can be patriotic of the EU soon, once all national borders have truly been removed. Do you think we should graciously allow the UK in - totally I mean. With currency and all that?

No, and we don't want to be allowed in either. The EU can kiss my arse. :mp5:


European Patriots... well this thread is ironic if ever I've seen an ironic thread. As if people who claim to be "European Patriots" are nothing like Nazis, whom you all seem to ironically openly despise. I'm beginning to think double standards are written into the proposed EU constitution.

europeans will all die off soon.... they have the lowest birth rates in the f*cking world

lmao

europeans will all die off soon.... they have the lowest birth rates in the f*cking world

lmao
You think thats a bad thing the rest of the world will die of food shortages

No, and we don't want to be allowed in either. The EU can kiss my arse. :mp5:


European Patriots... well this thread is ironic if ever I've seen an ironic thread. As if people who claim to be "European Patriots" are nothing like Nazis, whom you all seem to ironically openly despise. I'm beginning to think double standards are written into the proposed EU constitution.
lol nazis thats a good one. you are a real genius.

I've never thought that the European Union is a good thing for any of our countries, but it's inevitable so I may as well get used to it. I had a really good poem that highlights a few of the bad things about the EU, written by a local guy near here, but I can't for the life of me find it. I'll post it if I do.

Oh, and don't let the posts of a few people force you to judge the entire EU population, just like you don't like those few people doing the same to you, Americans. Most of us have no problem with you or your culture. Your government, that may be a different matter, but that's not necessarily a reflection of the people. Afterall, you didn't know all this would happen when you voted the current government in.

Perhaps we should start judging all Europeans based upon the appearance and actions of soccer hooligans (football hooligans for you Europeans).

Nah, that's how most the rest of the world judge us Brits.