NationStates Jolt Archive

What is your opinion on hunting. I'll post mine later. :sniper:

What is your opinion on hunting. I'll post mine later. :sniper:

I love hunting, I do it all the time. I got a Benelli 10 gauge for ducks and 12 gauge rifled barrel for deer and a 12 gauge for turkey.

I don't hunt, but I don't think there's anything wrong with hunting.

Well, I'm a vegan and an animal-rights activist, which I suppose means the majority of the hunters in this thread are going to glare at me, but oh well. My arguments against hunting are fairly simple: 1) Guns are dangerous. If nobody hunted, there wouldn't nearly as many guns lying around, which in my opinion in a Good Thing. 2) People don't have the right to hurt any other living thing, including other people and animals. Note that this doesn't apply to non-humans, since they often have to kill to survive. Humans don;t. 4) This is related to #3. Since people *can* survive without killing and eating animals, and since we are capable of intelligent choice, it seems to me that we really have no excuse to continue.

I personally believe being hunted to feed a family is a better way for an animal to go than losing their habitat to deforestation or being raised in a massive farm where they are stuck in cages.

Hunting for sport I don't like; however, if you're going to eat it, then that's okay..

Well, I'm a vegan and an animal-rights activist, which I suppose means the majority of the hunters in this thread are going to glare at me, but oh well. My arguments against hunting are fairly simple: 1) Guns are dangerous. If nobody hunted, there wouldn't nearly as many guns lying around, which in my opinion in a Good Thing. 2) People don't have the right to hurt any other living thing, including other people and animals. Note that this doesn't apply to non-humans, since they often have to kill to survive. Humans don;t. 4) This is related to #3. Since people *can* survive without killing and eating animals, and since we are capable of intelligent choice, it seems to me that we really have no excuse to continue.

We could argue about the diference between handguns and hunting rifles, but that is irrelevant. Besides, some people also hunt with bows. And fishing tackle.

Yes, people *can* survive without meat. People *can* survive without a lot of things. Like every hobby that makes life worth living. Like human interaction (seal everyone in their own bubble to cut down on communicable diseases).

The fact that they *can* survive without these things does not mean that they *should*.

I respect that you are a vegan, however as much as that is your choice it - does not neccessarily qualify it as being the "intelligent" one as you so think. Somewhere there is somebody with a lettuce fetish that considers you a butcher....nor is it practical in some communities such as the Canadian North where there is NO arable land, and to support a vegan lifestyle would be to import everything at very expensive air-freight rates to support very small communities who could not afford that. They hunt for the simple reason that it is the only way to feed their families. This is true in many regions of Africa and Asia as well.

That being said, I do not hunt nor do I approve of trophy hunting. However hunting and fishing for those who actually use what they take is a fair practice in my opinion.

Besides...

http://members.rogers.com/zeppo_marx2/images/godscreatures.jpg

I find a certain aesthetic appeal in hunting but there are far too many people who go a little OTT.

I wish I knew how to hunt, I've an uncle and a cousin who do and yes they eat what they catch (when edible) and it really isn't that bad if you stick to hunting regulations and seasons.

Humans wouldn't be carniverous if eating meat was a bad idea.

Good, dammit! Im southern!

Well, I'm a vegan and an animal-rights activist, which I suppose means the majority of the hunters in this thread are going to glare at me, but oh well. My arguments against hunting are fairly simple: 1) Guns are dangerous. If nobody hunted, there wouldn't nearly as many guns lying around, which in my opinion in a Good Thing. 2) People don't have the right to hurt any other living thing, including other people and animals. Note that this doesn't apply to non-humans, since they often have to kill to survive. Humans don;t. 4) This is related to #3. Since people *can* survive without killing and eating animals, and since we are capable of intelligent choice, it seems to me that we really have no excuse to continue.


Guns are only dangerous when morons use them. If you take care and don't act like a fool you will not have a problem. I haven't in over 16 years.

I like hunting, and last year I killed my first deer with a bow, so of course I'm not against it. Besides, better to die by and arrow or bullet to the heart than to be hit by a car or die of a disease caused by over-population. By the way, that bill-board is hilarious.

I like hunting, and last year I killed my first deer with a bow, so of course I'm not against it. Besides, better to die by and arrow or bullet to the heart than to be hit by a car or die of a disease caused by over-population. By the way, that bill-board is hilarious.


Was it a buck or a doe? If a buck how many points?

You know, someone has to keep those pesky racoons and other varments in check.

Was it a buck or a doe? If a buck how many points?

Eh, it was only a doe. But my dad a couple years ago shot a buck that almost made Pope & Young, it scored pretty high.

You know, someone has to keep those pesky racoons and other varments in check.


We kill Coyotes around here. They kill dogs, cats and have taken some calves lately.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike hunting - you're treating living things as points on a scoring chart.
In response to Zeppistan: if an area isn't arable, then people shouldn't really be living in it. The philosophy that humans have some sort of birthright to spread over the entire globe confuses me, frankly.
I understand that meat-eaters often see veganism as excessively spartan. If one feels that meat is more of a luxury, and that vegans are simply refuses to indulge as a matter of discipline ... well, that would be so. I personally feel that the costs of meat are much higher than the gains a human receives by eating it.
To BlackKnightPoet: I wasn't just referring to guns as dangerous to humans - they're tools designed for hurting. Ultimately, they're dangerous to someone.

i dont hunt but i know many people who do.
my dad's hunting made a huge contribution to feeding his 7 children.

i think hunting is good for 2 (excellent) reasons

1) since we've done away with the majority of predators, hunting is needed to keep the herds in check. you may not like it that we have put ourselves in this circumstance but we must deal with reality. they arent gonna re-introduce wolves to suburban milwaukee.

2) the only way to truly protect the wilderness is to make sure there are enough people with a vested interest in keeping it that way. you cant rely on the kindness of human beings to do the right thing. we need people who are going to make sure that their interests in the wild spaces is taken into account. these people are called hunters.

I eat all the animals I kill and I use them for thropys. Anyone else love to fish.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike hunting - you're treating living things as points on a scoring chart.
In response to Zeppistan: if an area isn't arable, then people shouldn't really be living in it. The philosophy that humans have some sort of birthright to spread over the entire globe confuses me, frankly.
I understand that meat-eaters often see veganism as excessively spartan. If one feels that meat is more of a luxury, and that vegans are simply refuses to indulge as a matter of discipline ... well, that would be so. I personally feel that the costs of meat are much higher than the gains a human receives by eating it.
To BlackKnightPoet: I wasn't just referring to guns as dangerous to humans - they're tools designed for hurting. Ultimately, they're dangerous to someone.

Hate to break it to you Cobweb, but the vast majority of human beings on this planet live in places where they could not grow the diversity of plants, nuts, and fruits neccessary to create a healthy vegan diet. There simply are no supermarkets for the masses in the Sudan, in the depths of the Amazon basin, or in most areas of the world. Indeed, it would hardly be possible for most Vegans did they not live in a society rich enough to keep the variety of produce needed shipped in 365 days a year. It is ignorance and arrogance on your part to feel that this is possible for all mankind right now. And telling the Inuit who have lived and hunted the North for thousands of years to abandon their birthright for a salad is both ludicrous and insulting.

Like I said, you are welcome to your views. I respect them. However attempting to inflict them on the whole world makes you as annoying as a Jehova Witness.

since I'm not in the posting mood I'll make this simple:
1)over hunting=bad
2)sport hunting=bad
3)hunting but using the meat as food=good
I used to hunt but not anymore. Unless something is being a pest. Like those squirrels and coons that made a hole in my roof. I must of killed 10-15 squirrels, and 2 coons. They made a huge hole in my roof, and I had to put in new tiles.
Guns aren't dangerous people are. I have a large gun collection I use for competition. I keep them in a large safe, and never leave one out. I personally don't care if someone hunts, or opposes it as long as they're not a (word) about it. I can respect anyones position on any issue.

Anti-hunting folks seem to forget a few major factors in hunting. I'll try to bring up a few if I can remember them

1. Do you know who puts some of the largest sums into conservation? I'll give you a hint: it isn't PETA. Hunting organizations make some of the largest contributions to protecting the land. And all the money we pay for our hunting licenses? Most of it goes to conservation projects. So any argument of "destroying the land" is moot.

2. Gun and bow accidents. Make a lot of news, and raise a lot of questions. Actually, in a list of the reasons for accidental deaths, hunting wasn't even in the top ten. Hospital accidents were #1.

3. Have you ever heard of overpopulation? White-tail deer were going wild in my state for decades after a decline in hunting in the 60's or so. They bred like crazy, stripped entire forests, and starved by the thousands every winter. After hunting came back into popularity, a lot fewer deer died, because they dont have as many bucks to mate with them. Hunters can help put things in balance. So pain and suffering of the animals is moot too. (I don't know about you, but I'd rather be shot than starve to death.)

So other than your personal beliefs, which I am entirely willing to respect, you have nothing that you can use to legally ban hunting. (If you think you do, post it, and I'll do my best at it.)

i have hunted for somewhere around 25 years or so now. I have always tried to approach it with respect for the animal i am hunting, the enviroment i am in(clean up after yourself when in the woods/fields/etc folks), and eat what i kill.

unfortantley, growing up in a rural area as i did, i also seen WAY to many idiots who poach and leave animals to die, who take stupid shots and then won't track to at least attempt to find the animal. I could go on, but i'm sure those of you who are experienced hunters/fishers know what i mean.

the point being: as with anything you do in life, treat what you do(hunting/fishing) with respect and then others will respect what you do.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike hunting - you're treating living things as points on a scoring chart.
In response to Zeppistan: if an area isn't arable, then people shouldn't really be living in it. The philosophy that humans have some sort of birthright to spread over the entire globe confuses me, frankly.
I understand that meat-eaters often see veganism as excessively spartan. If one feels that meat is more of a luxury, and that vegans are simply refuses to indulge as a matter of discipline ... well, that would be so. I personally feel that the costs of meat are much higher than the gains a human receives by eating it.
To BlackKnightPoet: I wasn't just referring to guns as dangerous to humans - they're tools designed for hurting. Ultimately, they're dangerous to someone.


ever been to a fair? they have 'scoring' for largest watermelons, lettuce, cucumbers, etc there don't they? are not these living hings to? i'm being silly, you know, but seriously, life feeds of life. i can respect your wishes, just as i do my wife, who does not eat red meat. all i ask is that you respect my right to live and eat what i want.

:)

I don't hunt myself, and there is no need for us in the US to actually do it, to stay alive.

Given that, however, it IS a circle of life thing, and we have taken out too many actual predators to control herds, flocks, etc. In Wisconsin, our deer population is monstrous. With wolves just starting to be reintroduced, you get a great deal of starvation in the deer herds. Not a way I want something to die, really.

So, when it comes to hunting, I don't, but I'm not going to try to stop someone else from doing it. Unless they're hunting predators, then that's just stupid. The predators are there for a reason--to control the herds and flocks. If we take them down, all the other problems pop up. There is only one reason to hunt a predator: If someone is in danger because of it.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike hunting - you're treating living things as points on a scoring chart.
In response to Zeppistan: if an area isn't arable, then people shouldn't really be living in it. The philosophy that humans have some sort of birthright to spread over the entire globe confuses me, frankly.
I understand that meat-eaters often see veganism as excessively spartan. If one feels that meat is more of a luxury, and that vegans are simply refuses to indulge as a matter of discipline ... well, that would be so. I personally feel that the costs of meat are much higher than the gains a human receives by eating it.
To BlackKnightPoet: I wasn't just referring to guns as dangerous to humans - they're tools designed for hurting. Ultimately, they're dangerous to someone.

Guns aren't dangerous to anyone or anything. The person using them can be, however. Guns don't just go off--something has to make them go off. All those, "The gun just went off," comments are complete horseshit. The user's finger was on the trigger and they pulled. Put the responsibility of the damage where it is supposed to be--on the person--the thing that actually made the gun go off. Don't blame the tool. Blame the jackass using the tool.

People should only be allowed to hunt with a club and a knife. Period.

If you can chase down a deer and club it to death, then I will concede that you are a true hunter. Otherwise ... meh ... go to the grocery store.

This is one of the reasons why I dislike hunting - you're treating living things as points on a scoring chart.

Most hunters that I know shoot both does and bucks and only tally up a score if the buck that they shoot is particularly big. And a lot of hunters use the meat off of the animals to feed themselves and their families. I know that my family saves a lot of money from eating venison, it lasts us all year until the next hunting season. And there are people that need hunting to survive. Like the tribes in South Africa or whatever. They aren't going to stop hunting and eating meat just people they are killing a poor animal, they need that meat to survive. In the middle of Africa you aren't exactly going to find a whole bunch of gardens full of veggies everywhere.

My family hunts for both sport and food. We enjoy nature and the thrill of the hunt, but we also really like deer meat. And I just wanted to point out to anyone that has ever argued that hunters are killing "Bambi" that he is a cartoon character and therefore not real. And that the movie "Bambi" makes hunters look like blood thirsty killers that are complete morons and leave their campfire going and let it spread out of control and start forest fires throughout the country. That movie was made by tree-huggers for sure. I also wanted to point out that "Iron Giant" is also an anti-hunter movie used to poison the minds of children all over the country.

Guns aren't dangerous to anyone or anything. The person using them can be, however. Guns don't just go off--something has to make them go off. All those, "The gun just went off," comments are complete horseshit. The user's finger was on the trigger and they pulled. Put the responsibility of the damage where it is supposed to be--on the person--the thing that actually made the gun go off. Don't blame the tool. Blame the jackass using the tool.

While I agree with the sentiment I have to disagree on never “just going off” their have been a few reported cases of loaded guns left in a trunk on a summer day ;) ya only have to get it so hot … lol


I agree it is the person behind it that is enforcing their will

I still haven’t been able to come up with an alternative use for a gun lol just justifications like “family in danger” which is not quite the same



People should only be allowed to hunt with a club and a knife. Period.

If you can chase down a deer and club it to death, then I will concede that you are a true hunter. Otherwise ... meh ... go to the grocery store.


And why is a club and a knife allowed? They are also technology … though it may be primitive it still is technology. Why is the line drawn after the knife?

You may say “well it is not fair the animal does not have one too” true … they evolved things like natural camouflage and teeth and claws and all those other neat little things.

We evolved differently … a larger capacity brain and the al mighty opposable thumb … if they get to use their talents and strengths … so do I

And why is a club and a knife allowed? They are also technology … though it may be primitive it still is technology. Why is the line drawn after the knife?

Well, gotta make up for lack of big pointy horns and sharp teeth.

We evolved differently … a larger capacity brain and the al mighty opposable thumb … if they get to use their talents and strengths … so do I

BINGO! So, get in your car and drive down that nice paved road and go to that massive, well lit grocery store! :eek:

Hunting for food is good. Hunting for no reason is bad.

I am much more anti-gun than your average conservative republican, but I am not really anti-hunting.

The idea that no person has the right to hurt another living thing is ridiculous. Plants are living things, but I feel no guilt in putting a sprig of rosemary in my soup, nor do I feel guilt for eating a salad. True, it is possible that I am not "hurting" the plant, but nobody can know whether or not plants feel pain, even if they have no nerves of the kind we are used to seeing. If, in fact, plants DO feel pain, then the only reason people don't feel guilty eating them is that they have no way of showing pain.

Think about it. Just sitting here I guarantee you are harming, through inaction, at least one person. Do you feel guilty about that?

Think for instance, of your spouse. It is entirely possible that, by pursuing and marrying your spouse, you harmed another person who also loved her (or him). You feel no guilt from this.

And what about wars? Wars are bad, but sometimes they are necessary for the good of things (World War II was a horrific war, but it accomplished much good). Does the lack of a right to hurt another living thing get suspended when there is a war to be fought for the good of people?

Basically, it is pretty much impossible to even be living without hurting other entities. Think of all the dust mites you're squishing when walking on your carpet.

Well, gotta make up for lack of big pointy horns and sharp teeth.



BINGO! So, get in your car and drive down that nice paved road and go to that massive, well lit grocery store! :eek:

Or you could just hit a deer with your car, that's using our technology.

I used to hunt rabbits for farmers in exchange for money. The farmer's wife sold rabbit meat to dog-owners as dog food. I don't do it anymore, because its not a good way to make money and I have other hobbies I prefer, but I wouldn't want someone to be stopped from hunting.

People should be allowed to hunt:

1) Pests (including foxes as well as vegitarian animals)
2) non-endangered species
3) but only in the correct season (to avoid killing the mothers of young incapable of looking after themselves)

I see an animal that is wild and shot/killed for food as having a better quality of life than an animal that has been raised inside a shed or cage to be used for food. Nature intended animals to live wild and die for the food of others. Its called the Circle of Life. Anyone ever see Lion King?

If you're going to hunt, i think you damn well better eat what you shoot. There's no sport in killing another creature.

BINGO! So, get in your car and drive down that nice paved road and go to that massive, well lit grocery store!

Don’t live on a paved road to start with

Secondly … sure I will drive down to the store … they sell things like hamburger and veal mmm meat

Now tell me why is the grocery store better then hunting? Oh wait maybe you are arguing vegetarianism / veganism rather then the point I was arguing … hunting (difference … though seem irrevocably tied together)

Or you could just hit a deer with your car, that's using our technology.

I've done that before. It really sucks. Tore up the car and it was a big car!

The State Troopers came out and made their report, told me their own stories of hitting or nearly hitting deer, and took some pictures. Then a crew came out and chopped up the deer with a small chainsaw (bloody mess), threw it into a barrel, and drove off. I asked the Troopers where that would end up and they said, "Dog food".

So, hey, I sacrificed my car to feed hungry dogs.

I rock.

Hunting iz bad cuz we already can live on killing cowz,pigz and like somtimes lamb!! and i think wearing real skin iz really really nasty!! We should at least stop hunting on the endangered animalz especially tigers! I understand how the native indians had to hunt cuz they needed it to survive! now a dayz we dont HAVE to hunt to survive! Killing Animalz other then cowz and pigz just isnt right.

I've done that before. It really sucks. Tore up the car and it was a big car!

The State Troopers came out and made their report, told me their own stories of hitting or nearly hitting deer, and took some pictures. Then a crew came out and chopped up the deer with a small chainsaw (bloody mess), threw it into a barrel, and drove off. I asked the Troopers where that would end up and they said, "Dog food".

So, hey, I sacrificed my car to feed hungry dogs.

I rock.

:D That's funny. My mom and dad have both almost hit deer with their cars and my grandma hit one, and it got up and walked away. Hitting a deer with your car= the true meaning of fast food.

Hunting iz bad cuz we already can live on killing cowz,pigz and like somtimes lamb!! and i think wearing real skin iz really really nasty!! We should at least stop hunting on the endangered animalz especially tigers! I understand how the native indians had to hunt cuz they needed it to survive! now a dayz we dont HAVE to hunt to survive! Killing Animalz other then cowz and pigz just isnt right.

Work on substituting your "z's" with "s's".

Don’t live on a paved road to start with

Yikes! You have power outlets in that cave? :D

Secondly … sure I will drive down to the store … they sell things like hamburger and veal mmm meat

Exactly!

Now tell me why is the grocery store better then hunting?

It's making far greater use of our technology. Grocery store, vehicle, road, refrigeration and so on.

Oh wait maybe you are arguing vegetarianism / veganism

Oh hell no. Vegetarianism/Veganism for religious/spiritual purposes is just fine and I am all for it ... 800 million Hindus can't be wrong. Militant anti-meat without cause is just stupid and those people should be hunted for sport.

I mean ... come on ... you ever seen a chicken? We're doing them a favor by eating them.

Hunting iz bad cuz we already can live on killing cowz,pigz and like somtimes lamb!! and i think wearing real skin iz really really nasty!! We should at least stop hunting on the endangered animalz especially tigers! I understand how the native indians had to hunt cuz they needed it to survive! now a dayz we dont HAVE to hunt to survive! Killing Animalz other then cowz and pigz just isnt right.


Lol reading through this beautiful piece of literature was difficult but I have one question

Why are “cowz and pigz” so much better (or worse in this case) then another animal

I know this is the traditional argument of someone not supporting hunting

But you seem to live with eating and killing other animals for food… what is the matter with other (non endangered ) animals? Wait maybe it is because more of them are “furry and cute”

:D That's funny. My mom and dad have both almost hit deer with their cars and my grandma hit one, and it got up and walked away. Hitting a deer with your car= the true meaning of fast food.

Lol. I asked the Troopers why I couldn't keep the deer and they asked to see my hunting license. I chuckled.

Lol reading through this beautiful piece of literature was difficult but I have one question

Why are “cowz and pigz” so much better (or worse in this case) then another animal

I know this is the traditional argument of someone not supporting hunting

But you seem to live with eating and killing other animals for food… what is the matter with other (non endangered ) animals? Wait maybe it is because more of them are “furry and cute”

First Lady probably has a "Bambi Perspective" on hunting.

Nothing against hunting. Never been, and have never felt the need to, and I doubt I will.

However there are two things I don't like about hunting (or more accurately, some hunters).

1. That is, shoot, kill and then leave it to rot. Wastage just isn't my thing.

2. The ridiculous get up that Fox hunters wear.

http://www.cardmine.co.uk/a220283.jpg

Also saying that hunters should only be allowed to use a club and knife is a bit weird, just as well our ancestors didn't think like that.

I personally believe being hunted to feed a family is a better way for an animal to go than losing their habitat to deforestation or being raised in a massive farm where they are stuck in cages.


I fully agree with your conviction pertaining to hunting.

I prefer fishing because fish have a lower sensitivity.

now a dayz we dont HAVE to hunt to survive!
I guess you haven't read the rest of the thread. Zeppistan (I think) has already given a few examples of modern communities that need to hunt to survive.

hunting is good, i hate vegan hippies who say killing is bad. killing is a part of life. if hunters did not hunt animals then the populaiton would not be reduced and more every year would die a more horrible death by slowly starving. and if there are many animals they run out on the road and get in car accidents, some times killing people. i live in Canada and my area has a large area of deer so in the last two years the wildlife management unit issued 1 extra tag to hunters, so u can get two deer if u want in order to control the population.

u hippies dont see the whole story, u see a cute little disney character that u think shouldnt be killed, but its not like that, becuase of a low number of hunters in some US states, deer have developed CWD (chronic wasting disease) its like mad cow disease in wild animals. if there had been more hunters this might of been avoidable.

This is related to #3. Since people *can* survive without killing and eating animals, and since we are capable of intelligent choice, it seems to me that we really have no excuse to continue.

yes some can survive but it wouldnt be an intelligent choice, people are still starving all over the world, if we suddenly made it illegal to eat meat then many more people would starve, most cattle breeds would become extinct because we would have no need for them and they cant go back into the wild after thousands of years of being domesticated, hell most have evolved so they dont grow horns because they will get clipped off anyways. let alone how many millions of people will lose there jobs if we stopped eating meat, my uncles raises cattle, his whole life would become that of a bum living in a cardboard box, and thats the life of his children too then. and besides, everyone knows veganism is unhealthy as it doesnt provide a balanced diet, i dont want to be popping pills just because too many people watch Disney movies.


GUNS ARE NOT DANGEROUS. i have shot a gun since i was 5 years old, and never once have i had a misfire or an accident in my over 13 years of shooting.

and just to tell u its not as cruel and unfair as u would think, in most areas because u are within a close distance of towns u cant shoot a rifle over a certain calibre, so around here u can only shoot shotguns unless u go 100 miles north. shotguns are harder to kill with, u have to get the deer within 100 yards ussually and remain perfectly still and not be smelled by it at all, even harder for hunting with bows because u have to get them even closer, and in canada u cant use lures such as salt licks and u cant shine lights in its eyes to stun and freeze the animal before shooting it.

a huntr will go out in 30 below 0 degrees celsius weather (0 is freezing point for u yanks) and sit motionless for a whole day just to see one deer all day. it is not the killing that is the fun part. it is the climactic time between when u see the deer and then pull the trigger that makes it all seem worth it to sit out in the cold for 14 hours.

Yikes! You have power outlets in that cave?

Yes … problem with paved roads on our farm is the right of ways with other things (let them pave the road and we got to watch cause they will pull all kinds of crap in next to them … we have to watch out plowing then

Anyways this makes me seem like a hick … lol but personally only shot a few “pests” but that is because on large personally my family wouldn’t use the meat so we don’t kill except when we have issues with them getting into things they shouldn’t lol


It's making far greater use of our technology. Grocery store, vehicle, road, refrigeration and so on.

Seems rather in “efficient” you know having to kill load transport (in an energy using refrigerator) and store it

Also may want to note that they don’t usually have any “game” meat in stores. At least not in Minnesota.

Haven't you people ever heard the old addage "you are what you eat?" For health, you should avoid fruits, nuts, and vegetables. :D

Yes … problem with paved roads on our farm is the right of ways with other things (let them pave the road and we got to watch cause they will pull all kinds of crap in next to them … we have to watch out plowing then

Oh I know ... they recently stuck a couple of obnoxious signs on the road that runs by my place (I'm on a 20 acre spread in NE Texas) and there's nothing I can do about it.


Anyways this makes me seem like a hick

Nah ... you can read.

Nothing personal against hunting, unless it falls under the poaching category, or careless hunting. As numerous people have stated, hunting is very often neccessary for survival for some communities in the world.

Also, someone posted a while back that guns sometimes 'go off' by themselves when left in, say, a car during hot temperatures, as a result of presumeabley the powder in the cartridge going off. I have only one comment on this. What, in God's name, was that person doing leaving his weapon in his car loaded? His, or her, own carelessness is to blame here.


P.S. To nations who have hit a deer with their car. You should be happy it wasn't a moose you hit. Although indeed hitting nothing is better.

Seems rather in “efficient” you know having to kill load transport (in an energy using refrigerator) and store it

not that inefficietn if u think of all the money u save. a whoel deer feeds my family of 5 for most of the year (youngest brother is 16). it saves us money as we butcher it ourselves so we only have to pay for the tag to shoot it. after we run out of deer meat we bought a hind quarter of beef this year (thats a humongous section of meat) and it cost us over $500, a life cow only costs $600, we could fo bought the cow and butchered it ourselves and had 4x the meat.

there is no denying there are bad people who use guns for bad reasons, but in Canada we have gun control laws in place and have wasted about 20 billion $ of tax money on it and it still isnt even out of the designing phase. gun control doesnt work, as handguns are illegal in Canada but u can buy them a dime a dozen accross the border and tehy get shipped here all the time. GUN CONTROL IS NOT THE WAY, IT ONLY MAKES THE GUN ILLEGAL THAT THE GUY SHOOTS U WITH, IT DOESNT STOP HIM FROM SHOOTING U.

bad people who use guns are called 1%ers, teh naem was started by the hells angels and it means that only about 1% of us gun users are bad people, and they are hated by teh rest of us for teh same reasons u hate us

many areas rely on hunting as tehre entire economy, my father and 12 of his friends went up north to hunt moose. they each spent thousands of dollars to fly up there and in the end out of 12 of them they got only 2 moose. they spent thousands of dollars just for the experience, not to simply shoot the animal or else we would of domesticated them long ago. the town were tehy stayed had only one road, and were lucky if anyone drove by on it in any day. hunters going up there to hunt provide for there whole economy in the north, and it isnt very far up north of the Canada/USA border and i bet the same thing happens in places in USA

Well, the typical arguement when I ask people where I live why they hunt for sport is "We kill them so they don't get overpopulated and die from eating all the food they have", now that is the exact same thing as saying "We kill them so they don't die", it makes no sense. I think hunting for sport is only to get some sick pleasure from killing something, it is wrong.

Well, the typical arguement when I ask people where I live why they hunt for sport is "We kill them so they don't get overpopulated and die from eating all the food they have", now that is the exact same thing as saying "We kill them so they don't die", it makes no sense. I think hunting for sport is only to get some sick pleasure from killing something, it is wrong.

well how would u like to die, a slow painful death of starvign to death not having enough food because ur brother ate it all or a quick painless shot with no suffering involved.

its not killing them so they dont die, its killing them so they dont die a painful death and many fewer die now when we shoot them now then if we let moer be born and more starve to death. and providing for the future, they could very easily eat themselves to extinction, this way we can control the population. we eliminated there natura predators when we moved into the area so they now no longer have anyone but us to kill them, we need to take responsibility for what we have done in the past and take action, not just sit there and believe all animals are liek bambi and will one day rule the forest.

well how would u like to die, a slow painful death of starvign to death not having enough food because ur brother ate it all or a quick painless shot with no suffering involved.

its not killing them so they dont die, its killing them so they dont die a painful death. and providing for the future, they could very easily eat themselves to extinction, this way we can control the population. we eliminated there natura predators when we moved into the area so they now no longer have anyone but us to kill them, we need to take responsibility for what we have done in the past and take action, not just sit there and believe all animals are liek bambi and will one day rule the forest.

Amen to that. :cool:

In response to Zeppistan: if an area isn't arable, then people shouldn't really be living in it. The philosophy that humans have some sort of birthright to spread over the entire globe confuses me, frankly.

I've never heard of that philosophy, and I very much doubt it was the driving cause of the majority of history's migrations. People move into all manner of areas mostly to escape overcrowding or oppression, not because they believe they have some sort of birthright. The fact is, if the land is there and not occupied by someone else, and they can survive there, then people will probably move there if it makes their lives easier. It's a natural trait of pretty much all species, although humans do it most prevalently because they are more capable of surviving pretty much anywhere.

My family hunts. We follow all the regulations that the state puts out. I get so tired of the "vegan" and animal rights folks that try and tell me that what my family does is wrong.

I am sorry, my family has always hunted. We dont do it for sport, yes we talk about points as that refers to bucks and how many points are on his antlers. In california the buck has to be a 2 point or it is illegal. well the last time I went hunting.

I also fish, and I eat what I catch. Again I follow all the regulations that the state puts out. Why dont I buy fish... Have you seen the freaking prices?

As for the guy who said use a club to hunt, sorry I will stick with my gun it provides a quicker death for the animal then sitting there bashing the poor thing.

If you prefer eating veggies only that is cool that is your life choice. Mine is to continue to live like my family has always lived hunting, fisihing and gardening.

When I have children I will teach them how to fish and how to hunt. I will also teach them that guns dont kill people, people kill peoplle. A gun is a wepon and a tool and just like any wepon and tool misuse it and people get hurt.

I've never heard of that philosophy, and I very much doubt it was the driving cause of the majority of history's migrations. People move into all manner of areas mostly to escape overcrowding or oppression, not because they believe they have some sort of birthright. The fact is, if the land is there and not occupied by someone else, and they can survive there, then people will probably move there if it makes their lives easier. It's a natural trait of pretty much all species, although humans do it most prevalently because they are more capable of surviving pretty much anywhere.

except we dont care if there are people tehre before us, the new world is a prime example, especially the trail of tears were yanks murdered indians and moved them out because they were on the land the yanks wanted. have u people ever thjought of the history of hunting. indians often hunt because it connects them to there ancestors, i am part indian so i know this. jsut because u think bambi is cute doesnt mean u can uproot a whole people society and history

I'm all for hunting as long as endangered species aren't involved. Pigs aren't natural to america, just like cats. They were brought 'here' ;did their own hunting, and completely decimated whole species by themselves. Cats won't come home and ENJOY killing rabbits/birds/fowl(chicken,turkey, Peafowl); Yet I can't shoot them, and I'd love to know why. I am allergic.

Have you seen Delaware or New Jersey? The garden state could be a living advertisement for abortion. The deer can't be killed in cities and towns so you'll see 3 or 4 right on someone's front lawn. Only 5 feet from your car and you can't have venison for dinner. The deer must be proud they're the dominant species.

It's not ethical in one's moral code to waste meat. You aren't a hunter at that point. You are an assissin, collector, or avid hobbier, but never a hunter.
:) That's my (very long) point of view. :)

I personally find the idea of hunting for fun to be discusting, but you know, whatever floats your boat. The issues that I take with hunters are:

1) Going out and shooting guns when you're so drunk you can't tell the difference between a dog and a deer.

2) Leaving hunting dogs on the side of the road to starve (I see this every single stinking year in the neighboorhood I grew up in. The dogs are trained in such a way that they won't come near anyone but the owner, and they won't eat anything they catch. They starve to death when left behind. It's appalling.

3) Killing more than you and whoever you share with can eat. It's completely pointless.

4) Hunting by sitting up on a platform and drinking beer and waiting for a deer to walk by. If you're going to hunt and call it "sport," get off your fat ass and go hunt!

I know not all hunters are like this, but the majority where I come from do at least one of these.

I personally find the idea of hunting for fun to be discusting, but you know, whatever floats your boat. The issues that I take with hunters are:

1) Going out and shooting guns when you're so drunk you can't tell the difference between a dog and a deer.

2) Leaving hunting dogs on the side of the road to starve (I see this every single stinking year in the neighboorhood I grew up in. The dogs are trained in such a way that they won't come near anyone but the owner, and they won't eat anything they catch. They starve to death when left behind. It's appalling.

3) Killing more than you and whoever you share with can eat. It's completely pointless.

4) Hunting by sitting up on a platform and drinking beer and waiting for a deer to walk by. If you're going to hunt and call it "sport," get off your fat ass and go hunt!

I know not all hunters are like this, but the majority where I come from do at least one of these.

What moron have you seen that drinks beer in the tree-stand? The deer would smell it and run away. Man, these stereotypes are what make people think that all hunters are irresponsible losers.

Oh I know ... they recently stuck a couple of obnoxious signs on the road that runs by my place (I'm on a 20 acre spread in NE Texas) and there's nothing I can do about it.




Nah ... you can read.


Not worried about the signs … buried cables and gas lines are much more annoying :) (specially when you are plowing)

and

What moron have you seen that drinks beer in the tree-stand? The deer would smell it and run away. Man, these stereotypes are what make people think that all hunters are irresponsible losers.

Agreed ... you know how much hunters spend on scent killers :)
Besides you only drink after the day of hunting is done ... everyone knows that :-D

Not worried about the signs … buried cables and gas lines are much more annoying :) (specially when you are plowing)

and



Agreed ... you know how much hunters spend on scent killers :)
Besides you only drink after the day of hunting is done ... everyone knows that :-D

:p

I thought I posted this to this thread, but guess not, my take on hunting as well as any other political issue in this world, that has nothing to do with one human hurting another.

I think it rightly should be left up to the eyes of the beholder. I personally do not hunt anymore, but when I did I would use the fur for clothing and the venison for food, many indians will purchase the bones also for knife and other tool and design peices. I do not hunt anymore because I track on down to the local supermarket instead. I still fish (catch and release) but never did keep them unless a friend would eat it.

For someone to be a pure vegan that is also a personal choice, and I see it no different than the one that someone chooses to be a hunter. I am not for ever forcing an opinion of mine(or anyone elses) onto another free human, besides who is to say that one opinion really is any better or worse than another. Since feelings are not universal, they only appear to be conflicting during issues that one human was raised one way and another a different way.(similiar to one growing up in a city environment over a rural one, they will hold many different values, rightly so. But not one being anymore right than the other, only of what is right for that individual or community)

I thought I posted this to this thread, but guess not, my take on hunting as well as any other political issue in this world, that has nothing to do with one human hurting another.

I think it rightly should be left up to the eyes of the beholder. I personally do not hunt anymore, but when I did I would use the fur for clothing and the venison for food, many indians will purchase the bones also for knife and other tool and design peices. I do not hunt anymore because I track on down to the local supermarket instead. I still fish (catch and release) but never did keep them unless a friend would eat it.

For someone to be a pure vegan that is also a personal choice, and I see it no different than the one that someone chooses to be a hunter. I am not for ever forcing an opinion of mine(or anyone elses) onto another free human, besides who is to say that one opinion really is any better or worse than another. Since feelings are not universal, they only appear to be conflicting during issues that one human was raised one way and another a different way.(similiar to one growing up in a city environment over a rural one, they will hold many different values, rightly so. But not one being anymore right than the other, only of what is right for that individual or community)

You made a new thread on this earlier.

If you're going to use the animal you're hunting for food, I have no problem with it. However, if you're just going out and killing for the hell of it, whether it be for trophies or sport, I do have a problem with it.

I'm more of a fisherman myself, though.

Yes, I think it is acceptable. I have many good memories of hunting and fishing with my dad, and we still hunt together now. It's more difficult to hunt in the UK because of the gun laws but my dad's a policeman so he can get a license for shotguns and rifles no problem. Down the local farm we've hunted rats, rabbits and foxes which are all pests. The rats end up as compost, rabbits on our plate and foxes in the farmer's dog dish. We've also hunted certain birds and other animals. As for fishing, we always eat what we catch or let it go.

It's certainly a lot less cruel to hunt an animal in the wild for food than have it living a miserable life in a abbatoir.

Well, I'm a vegan and an animal-rights activist, which I suppose means the majority of the hunters in this thread are going to glare at me, but oh well. My arguments against hunting are fairly simple: 1) Guns are dangerous. If nobody hunted, there wouldn't nearly as many guns lying around, which in my opinion in a Good Thing. 2) People don't have the right to hurt any other living thing, including other people and animals. Note that this doesn't apply to non-humans, since they often have to kill to survive. Humans don;t. 4) This is related to #3. Since people *can* survive without killing and eating animals, and since we are capable of intelligent choice, it seems to me that we really have no excuse to continue.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Plus my uncle feeds his family mostly on deer venison so your baisically saying that he should go without dinner!! Plus humans are supposed to be dominant over animals and not the other way around. All i have to say now is that im start hunting snakes down in Florida and every time i catch one ill feel a great satisfaction defying a Tree Hugger like you! :cool:

To all of you vegans and whatnot, it's REALLY not that big a deal. Death is a natural part of life. Some people wish that humans were removed from the food chain entirely (and therefore didn't have to kill animals), but that's simply impossible. The animals share this world with us, and I really don't see the difference of me killing an animal because I'm hungry or an animal killing an animal because it's hungry. Sure, it can feel its death unlike a plant, but it's going to die anyway. Everything will die eventually. Death just really isn't that big a deal. Death is something that will happen to every living thing on this planet, one way or another.

Now...killing for some sort of sick pleasure, I'll definitely agree that that's wrong.

Recreational hunting is wasteful. Hunting for food is good, since it means we are replacing the predators that we originally displaced.

OK, first off, I have problem with people who are vegetarian and vegan. I do have a problem, however, with violent groups such as PETA. But wait, PETA is good! They save animals. Noooooo.... They TALK about saving animals, they send pamphlets to people telling how wrong they are, they go to children's plays and hand out leaflets claiming that, "Mommy is a murder" because she has fur on, they pull publicity stunts that benifets no one, such as there, "Vegan's are better lovers" campaign where two vegan's make out on a city street. They litterally get millions in donations each year, but the percent they spend on actual animal saving is less then about 3%. Where does the rest of there money go? I just listed where it goes. They also happen to be on the FBI's most wanted list. They are extremely violent, as in saying that it would be wonderful if all places that handled or served meat blew up tommorow. Hunting is not bad, vegans aren't bad, hypocritical anti-meat groups ARE bad though.

It's fine so long as:

1. You don't hunt animals that are endangered, or belong to someone else (duh).

2. Moderation. Killing 2 deer in a trip might be fine, killing 200 is taking it just a bit far. We do want to have animals of the species left after people are done hunting.

3. Be humane. Though being hunted is obviously never going to be fun, don't use weapons that are exceptionally cruel or painful. If you shoot a creature and it isn't dead, don't just leave it on the ground to die in agony over hours. Finish it off mercifully.

4. Hunt responsibly. You're carrying a freakin' rifle in all likelihood, this one doesn't require deep thought.

I think that mostly covers it.

What moron have you seen that drinks beer in the tree-stand? The deer would smell it and run away. Man, these stereotypes are what make people think that all hunters are irresponsible losers.

Like I said, not all hunters do it - just most of the ones around where I live apparently. People in my neighboorhood lose dogs to drunk hunters on a fairly regular basis - and then the hunters leave their dogs to starve. But as long as you think those people are "irresponsible losers" just as much as I do, I have no problem with you.

I am somewhat of a pagan and this is how I personally view hunting as part of the bigger picture.

When one hunts -- there should be a purpose behind it -- life is sacred, there must be reason to have, and to take life. Hunting, for the thrill of hunting and it alone is not a good reason.

Nowadays, with rifles -- hunting for proving one's might is an oxymoron, for a gun will kill their prey 99% of the time without fail, espeically with high power scopes. I do not respect men (yes, it's usually men that hunt) that bragged about how macho they are for bringing down a deer at a hundred yards with .22 gauge rifle and a scope. A bow on the otherhand, requires strength, good aim and knowledge of the prey's vulernable points -- a better test of one's 'greatness'.

To hunt for trophies, I find it loathsome to rip off the head, or antlers for example, and leave the corpse to rot -- the other animals may feast on the dead, but it does not give respect to the creature whose life you took.

Now hunting for food, or to create things, such as fans from feathers, or saddle blankets from buckskin is perfectly honest reason to hunt.

Or to hunt to end misery, such as culling the ill from the herd is a noble reason.

Now that I said my peace, I would think one realizes that hunting for careful, and good reasons should not be outlawed.

Mercuris, I know what you mean and respect that but as for the ripping the head off and leaving the corpse to rot is not how they do it. They take the whole deer to a taxidermist and yes, they do chop off the head, but then the rest is used as meat. And people do make a good living off of doing taxidermy.

I am somewhat of a pagan and this is how I personally view hunting as part of the bigger picture.

When one hunts -- there should be a purpose behind it -- life is sacred, there must be reason to have, and to take life. Hunting, for the thrill of hunting and it alone is not a good reason.

Nowadays, with rifles -- hunting for proving one's might is an oxymoron, for a gun will kill their prey 99% of the time without fail, espeically with high power scopes. I do not respect men (yes, it's usually men that hunt) that bragged about how macho they are for bringing down a deer at a hundred yards with .22 gauge rifle and a scope. A bow on the otherhand, requires strength, good aim and knowledge of the prey's vulernable points -- a better test of one's 'greatness'.

To hunt for trophies, I find it loathsome to rip off the head, or antlers for example, and leave the corpse to rot -- the other animals may feast on the dead, but it does not give respect to the creature whose life you took.

Now hunting for food, or to create things, such as fans from feathers, or saddle blankets from buckskin is perfectly honest reason to hunt.

Or to hunt to end misery, such as culling the ill from the herd is a noble reason.

Now that I said my peace, I would think one realizes that hunting for careful, and good reasons should not be outlawed.

A .22 gauge rifle where might I find one of those. Don't bash things you obviously know nothing about.

GUNS ARE NOT DANGEROUS.

And nuclear weapons aren't either. It's how they're used! :rolleyes:

What is your opinion on hunting. I'll post mine later. :sniper:


I'd say if it's for a reason, like if you were going to eat what you killed, then t's fine. but otherwise it seems sort of pointless, I mean why use animals? can't go to like some carnival and get teh same thrill for a dollar, save teh lives of thousands of animals, and even get a chance at winner a huge tedy bear or something?

that bragged about how macho they are for bringing down a deer at a hundred yards with .22 gauge rifle and a scope. A bow on the otherhand, requires strength, good aim and knowledge of the prey's vulernable points -- a better test of one's 'greatness'.

I hate to be nit picky but do you even know what a .22 is? Do you relize what you are saying?
Because unless I got a PERFECT headshot I couldn’t even kill a mid sized dog with a .22 (varmint gun … not good for much bigger then rabbits)

And using a gun requires accuracy … skill … practice (and if u were doing it with a .22 better be prepared to run after the deer for the next month)

Now a bow I do agree is tougher but seriously if you are going to argue a point … research it

well how would u like to die, a slow painful death of starvign to death not having enough food because ur brother ate it all or a quick painless shot with no suffering involved.

its not killing them so they dont die, its killing them so they dont die a painful death and many fewer die now when we shoot them now then if we let moer be born and more starve to death. and providing for the future, they could very easily eat themselves to extinction, this way we can control the population. we eliminated there natura predators when we moved into the area so they now no longer have anyone but us to kill them, we need to take responsibility for what we have done in the past and take action, not just sit there and believe all animals are liek bambi and will one day rule the forest.

Humm...well, let me think of something.