NationStates Jolt Archive

For all you baseball fans and players... Who here thinks Edgar Martinez is deserving of joining Cooperstown?

Shoeless Jo better get in 1st. 3rd highest BA. in MLB history

Edgar did, single handedly, save baseball in Seattle. He is also one of only 5 major leaguers in baseball history with a BA of over .300, OBP of over .400, more than 300 hr's, more than 500 doubles. I think their might be 1 more thing missing, maybe not though.

He is also the all time greatest DH in history, the best right-handed hitter of his era, and one of the greatest in history.

Yes, he has "only" 2,200+ hits, but he also started at age of 27. If he started a few yrs earlier, he's be above that 3,000 mark.

One of the major problems being the fact that he's a DH in the first place.

Here's the problem with Edgar in two letters: DH. He's been a DH for too long in my view to be considered a viable Hall of Famer. Hell, even relievers have a hard time getting into the Hall, and we're going to put a DH in there?

When we get Goose Gossage and Bruce Sutter in the Hall, then we can talk about some DH's maybe, but not before.

Edit: Glad to see we agree on something, Kwangistar.:D

I know, that's the problem. But you compare him to any position player, and you'll see he's still better than many. The numbers are still there.

I'd take Baines of Thomas any day as better DHers. (both were or currently are White Sox) Thomas is on the active roster (at least next year he will be when his stress fracture heals and he is off the DL). Baines played for them and is now bench coach.

And Frank has better stats at 1st, a 2 time AL MVP (1993 and 1994 and last year 2nd in AL HRs behind A-Rod)

He is only DHing because we also have Paul Konerko(AL HR leader), otherwise Jose Valentin would DH

DH LEADERS>>
Batting average (min. 1,000 AB)
1. Edgar Martinez* .316 (1,567-for-4,963)
2. Paul Molitor .308 (1,457-for-4,727)
3. Hal McRae .294 (1,555-for-5,293)
Home runs
1. Edgar Martinez* 239
2. Harold Baines 235
3. Don Baylor 219
RBIs
1. Edgar Martinez* 986
2. Harold Baines 978
3. Hal McRae 823

The American League batting champion in 1992 (.343) and '95 (.356) ranks as the most productive designated hitter in history. He moved into first place in RBIs on May 12 when he drove in his 979th run as a DH and also moved Harold Baines from the top spot on the home run list on May 26 when he hit his 236th career home run as the DH.

His .316 career batting average as a DH also ranks as the best and five points higher than Paul Molitor, the Mariners' batting coach and recent inductee into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, N.Y.

He has been to the DH what Hoyt Wilhelm was to relief pitchers -- a specialty performer who was the best during a particular era.

Martinez has been so good for so long that the Mariners' all-time leader in virtually every offensive category just might become the organization's first Hall of Famer.

"He's got Hall of Fame numbers, has had a great career and is the best DH of all time," former Mariners manager Lou Piniella said Monday, when he received news that Martinez would retire at the end of the season.

When the curtain comes down on his career on Oct. 3, Martinez will ride off into retirement as the designated hitter's Triple Crown champion. He currently ranks first in batting average (.316), home runs (239) and RBIs (986).

The only active player ranked in the top five in any of those categories is White Sox DH/first baseman Frank Thomas, who has a .281 career batting average.

"[Martinez] changed the way a lot of right-handed power hitters approached hitting," Melvin said. "Up until the last six or seven years or so, right-handed power hitters were pull hitters. It was the left-handed hitters that were the high-average guys.

"But Edgar was the guy everybody regarded as the best all-around right-handed hitter because he had power to all fields, had patience so you couldn't strike him out and wouldn't expand the strike zone. He would take his walks.

"He was a good low-ball hitter, good high-ball hitter, good fastball hitter and good breaking-ball hitter. You really didn't see that until he came along in the '90s and now you see others, like Frank Thomas, pattern their hitting styles to Edgar."

Melvin, the only person to have both played against and managed Martinez, said, "I've come out of many advance meetings playing against him and coming out of the meeting thinking, 'Well, we hope he's not swinging very well this time around.' That's how good he is.

"As players, you'd sit around and talk about who's the best left-handed hitter in the American League and you'd say Brett, Mattingly, Boggs and Griffey. Then you'd talk about the greatest right-handed hitter, and it was always Edgar."

And he's part of a dying breed of players with whom mutual loyalties with the team have made him a lifer. There just aren't that many of them around anymore.

Only Cincinnati's Barry Larkin has played more seasons with one team than Martinez among active players, and it's becoming clear that one-team players are more and more a thing of the past. It's a discussion that came up with San Diego's Tony Gwynn and Baltimore's Cal Ripken Jr. retired at the end of 2001, and the message is a little bit louder with each one-team guy who moves on.

Heck, even Larkin might not be a one-team guy when it's through. This is the last year of his contract, and he's put off any kind of farewell tour indefinitely. An All-Star this year, he might play another year, and whether or not it's in Cincinnati remains up for grabs.

bump

he deserve to be in it

The Big Hurt will pass him for AVG. when he gets 1,000 abs as a DH in a few years. He has more career HRs, but not as many as a DH because he still plays some 1B and and did every game for many years.

Keep in mind, Frank did learn from 'Gar, as did Ken Griffey Jr. (when he's not injured, he's one of the best hitters in baseball), as did A-Rod, and so many others.

He is, after all, one of the best right handed hitters in baseball, and up until him, there weren't a whole lotta right-handers who hit for power and average, using the entire field. The Big Hurt is an outstanding player, but he learned how to hit from doing what Papi does...

he deserve to be in it
Yay, finally someone who agrees with me. And, yes, I am bias, bein in Seattle and a Mariner's fan, but I bet you if he played in a big-market team, such as the Yankees, everyone would be saying "He should be in the hall of fame!" but since he's here in the NW, so many people overlook him, unfortunately.

Probably the best DH ever, but I dont know 'bout hall of fame.

Here's the problem with Edgar in two letters: DH. He's been a DH for too long in my view to be considered a viable Hall of Famer. Hell, even relievers have a hard time getting into the Hall, and we're going to put a DH in there?

When we get Goose Gossage and Bruce Sutter in the Hall, then we can talk about some DH's maybe, but not before.

Edit: Glad to see we agree on something, Kwangistar.:D

Goose Gossage is my 3rd cousin. Not even joking. I'm serious. He needs to make it to the Hall of Fame.

I still stand by my opinion that he is a hall of famer. I mean, yes, he did start late - 27 years of age - in the majors. That is the ONLY reason that has kept him from getting to 400 hrs and 3K hits... the ONLY reason.

He is among the greatest right handed hitters in baseball. He has power to all parts of the field, and hits for an average, too. He is one of the great clutch hitters in baseball - He hit "The Double", a two-run, gaming-winning hit in the bottom of the 11th inning against the Yankees (1995 ALCS) with the Mariner's down by a run in game 5. If he was out, the Mariners would not be here today. There would be in baseball in the NW. But, he came in in the clutch to save an entire team, an entire city, an entire REGION.

He is the triple crown owner of DH's. He has help teach some of baseballs greats of this era. The only two numbers, and the only two letters, that are holding him from being a hall of famer are 3,000 hits, 400 hr's, and DH, respectively. But, as I said above, the ONLY reason he has not reached those numbers is because the Mariner's were to stupid to bring him up earlier in his career. But, here he is, greatest of all DH's, triple crowner of DH, greatest Mariner (above ARod, above The Unit, above "The Kid" Griffey Jr.) of all time, and one of the best right-handed hitters of all time. Yet, people say he is not worthy of the hall of fame?

He is only one of five... FIVE players in MLB HISTORY to have recorded 300+ HR's, .300+ BA, .400+ OBP and 2,000+ hits. The others are in the hall of fame and include Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron. If all this combined is not enough to get into the hall of fame, many others should not be in it, either.

Yes, he plays as a DH. Yes, he plays in Seattle. No, that should not matter.

He is a hall of famer.

I've got no issue with where he plays--Seattle, Montreal, Kansas City, New York--doesn't matter. My issue with Edgar--and I love watching him hit--is that he hasn't played the field in years, and that's as significant a part of the game to me as anything.

You've got to understand--I consider the DH an abomination and think it ought to be done away with altogether. So I have to ask myself--had there been no DH, would Edgar's stats be anywhere near where they are right now? The answer, for me, is no, because he'd have likely retired a few years ago. Sorry, but that's a huge factor for me.

He can play first base, actually. Yes, he hasn't, but keep in mind, Olly, one of the top 1st basemen there was a few years back, has been playing first base, and there are others now that Olly is gone that can play first base. So, I disagree with you about him retiring... he would have found a way to play, even if there was no DH.

But, I also disagree w/ DH being a bad thing. There are many people who aren't gold glovers, but can hit (like Edgar). This allows players like him to be able to play if there is someone else in the position he can play (like Olly being at 1st)

That's a completely different argument--whether or not the DH is a good thing--and I recognize that there are legitimate arguments in favor of it. I happen to disagree with those arguments, but I recognize that they're legitimate.

My ultimate point as far as Edgar is concerned, however, is that while he may have been able to play first (and did for my fantasy team about 4 years ago :D) he hasn't. He's essentially been a batter only for the last several years, and that negates his performance a bit in my eyes. I had similar qualms about Molitor, except that he played the field longer than Edgar and was a stellar defensive player for much of his career.

But I'm willing to agree to disagree on this point about Edgar. There is no doubt that he has been a stellar hitter for years, and has certainly been the soul of that Mariner's team that, unfortunately, just got real old real fast this year. I'll be sad to see him go, because he was beautiful to watch at the plate.