NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/sports/special_packages/olympics/9409540.htm


Iranian forfeits rather than face Israeli in judo

By MICHELLE KAUFMAN

Miami Herald


ATHENS - Politics poked its head through the Olympic rings on Sunday. Two-time world judo champion Arash Miresmaeili of Iran, the gold-medal favorite in the under-66 kg class, forfeited his first-round match against Israeli Ehud Vaks after saying he would not fight an Israeli because he sympathizes with Palestine and doesn't recognize the Israeli state.

"Although I have trained for months and was in good shape I refused to fight my Israeli opponent to sympathize with the suffering of the people of Palestine and I do not feel upset at all," Miresmaeili, the Iranian flag bearer at the Opening Ceremony, was quoted as telling the Iranian news agency (IRNA).

Miresmaeili showed up for weigh-in Sunday, but was officially withdrawn because he tipped the scales over the featherweight limit, a reason that surprised the International Judo Federation. Judo officials are investigating and considering whether to impose sanctions on Iran. The federation's executive committee met Sunday to discuss the situation, and plans to meet again Monday.

It is not the first time an Iranian judoka has refused to compete against an Israeli. At the 2001 world championships, Mahed Malekmohammdi refused to face Yoel Razvozov while Asian champion Masoud Haji Akhoundzade also pulled out of a match with Israeli lightweight Zvi Shafran.

Vaks was crushed when he heard he would win his first match by forfeit.

"I feel horrible for (Miresmaeili), and I'm sure if it was up to him, he would have fought," said Vaks, who lost in the second round. "I know what it feels like to lose, and this is worse. The politicians didn't let him fight. That is not the way I wanted to win. It is not fair to him. He was the favorite. It's a small world, the judo world, and I admire him as a fighter.

"They tell me not to talk about politics, but sports is part of politics. He does not have the right not to acknowledge my country. Israel is a democracy, and Iran is not. I feel terrible on a personal level for him, and on a national level, too. We're all human, all have the same feelings, and I empathize with what he must be going through."

Miresmaeili left the building after weigh-in and was not available for comment.

"The IJF is surprised that such an elite player could not make his weight," said federation spokesman Michel Besson. "Everyone was so professional (Saturday). Today, we're surprised what happened. We need more information. Perhaps he is hiding something, but we don't know. What I do know is we got an official statement (Saturday) from the Iran president of their judo federation saying the rumors (that it was a political boycott) were not true. If this situation has arisen from a political decision, the IJF will react to it."

Since its1979 Islamic revolution, Iran has refused to recognize Israel's right to exist. There are no records of Iranian athletes competing against Israelis since then.

"It is sad that this would happen in 2004," said Yaron Michaeli, the Israeli press attache. "We like to do fair fight on the floor, and we would have preferred to have our athlete fight against the two-time world champion. We eat together in the village lunchroom, 5,000 people without stamps on our heads saying `you are from here' or `you are from there.' Israelis, Iraqis, Syrians, all together. This what happened is against the Olympic ideal."

Besson agreed.

"As regards the political issue, I just want to say that the IJF wants to promote the values of judo," he said. "Let me remind you what they said in the opening ceremony. We heard (United Nations secretary general) Kofi Annan recalling the Olympic truce. We heard IOC president Jacques Rogge calling for the values of tolerance, solidarity, peace and friendship. These are the values of the IOC, these are the values of judo so we would like these values to be promoted in judo."

Miresmaeili was world champion in 2001 and 2003 and finished fifth at the Sydney Olympics four years ago

Iranian Olympic delegation chairman Nassrollah Sajadi said Miresmaeili should receive a $150,000 reward for withdrawing from the fight against Vaks: "I hope Iran's sporting officials agree to give him the reward which he deserves because he could easily have won a medal," he said.

"We are really sad," said Israeli spokesman Michaeli. "We believe in the Olympic ideal, which is no borders, no politics, just be together and make sport. We are here in Athens for sports, not politics. We have enough politics at home. It's truly a pity."

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Just plain sad!

Just how it was sad when the United States boycotted the olympics over afghanistan?

Just how it was sad when the United States boycotted the olympics over afghanistan?



Stay on topic! Stop trying to defend Iran!

Stay on topic! Stop trying to defend Iran!
Oh.

F*CK THE ARABS. Inferior scum...

Oh.

F*CK THE ARABS. Inferior scum...


Good Lord. :rolleyes:


Why are you standing up for what he did?

Stay on topic! Stop trying to defend Iran!

Uh, he was staying on topic. It directly related to the subject matter. If he wishes to defend Iran, that's his business.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Oh.

F*CK THE ARABS. Inferior scum...


:rolleyes:

Uh, he was staying on topic. It directly related to the subject matter. If he wishes to defend Iran, that's his business.

Stephanie
Game Moderator



It was against the spirit of the olympics.

Uh, he was staying on topic. It directly related to the subject matter. If he wishes to defend Iran, that's his business.

Stephanie
Game Moderator



It was against the spirit of the olympics.

It was against the spirit of the olympics.
So was boycotting the 80's olympics. Cry me a river, its way to protest an injustice and on topic.

So was boycotting the 80's olympics. Cry me a river, its way to protest an injustice and on topic.

Wait a minute, the US boycotted the 1980 olympics in Moscow to protest the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, which was particularly brutal and ruthless. The USSR responded by boycotting the 1984 olympics in LA


This is much more petty..

The Iranian will not compete against an Israeli because Iran does not recognize it as an existing nation... partially anti-semitism, partially politics... really now, maybe the Iranians are just afraid that they'll lose to the Israelis....Again....

In my view, what this guy did was outright ASININE.

I thought the Olympics were about putting aside political, religious, and diplomatic conflicts for the spirit of competition.

Serves him right that he ended up going overweight and thus was disqualified.

I don't exactly agree with China's policies, but if my opponent was Chinese, I'd take him/her on. I know the difference between Chinese citizens and Chinese policy. It's sad that others don't, and they are asshats for it.

[/first post]

Good Lord. :rolleyes:


Why are you standing up for what he did?
Can you really not make a distinction between standing up for Iran and pointing out that the US is just as evil?

Wait a minute, the US boycotted the 1980 olympics in Moscow to protest the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, which was particularly brutal and ruthless. The USSR responded by boycotting the 1984 olympics in LA


This is much more petty..

The Iranian will not compete against an Israeli because Iran does not recognize it as an existing nation... partially anti-semitism, partially politics... really now, maybe the Iranians are just afraid that they'll lose to the Israelis....Again....
No, thats not why:

"Although I have trained for months and was in good shape I refused to fight my Israeli opponent to sympathize with the suffering of the people of Palestine and I do not feel upset at all," Miresmaeili, the Iranian flag bearer at the Opening Ceremony, was quoted as telling the Iranian news agency (IRNA).

He didn't make weight! I guess the whole sympathy for Palestine thing sounds better than "I ate too much".

partially anti-semitism, partially politics..

1) Israeli's and Arabs are both Semites.

2) Every thing is politics including the former U.S.S.R. invading Afghanistan, perhaps the wrestler from Iran is protesting the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian's.

I'm not trying to defend Iran, however it never ceases to amaze me how some people will make any excuse to justify the exact same thing as ok for one side and not the other. Pot, kettle, black!

Wait a minute, the US boycotted the 1980 olympics in Moscow to protest the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, which was particularly brutal and ruthless. The USSR responded by boycotting the 1984 olympics in LA


This is much more petty..

The Iranian will not compete against an Israeli because Iran does not recognize it as an existing nation... partially anti-semitism, partially politics... really now, maybe the Iranians are just afraid that they'll lose to the Israelis....Again....
Agreed. But it's laughable for the US to criticize the Soviet Union. We ought then to object to ourselves on the same grounds: Iraq, Panama, Korea, Vietnam, Chile, Libya, and so on.

Now, Iran doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist because it's profitable for the powers-that-be to keep a perpetual enemy, the most easy to create in the anti-Semitic atmosphere being the Jews. And this can be pretty well generalized everywhere else. So basically any nation-state criticizing any other nation-state is full of shit.

1) Israeli's and Arabs are both Semites.

2) Every thing is politics including the former U.S.S.R. invading Afghanistan, perhaps the wrestler from Iran is protesting the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian's.

I'm not trying to defend Iran, however it never ceases to amaze me how some people will make any excuse to justify the exact same thing as ok for one side and not the other. Pot, kettle, black!
Just what I'm trying to point out to them.

Wait a minute, the US boycotted the 1980 olympics in Moscow to protest the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, which was particularly brutal and ruthless. The USSR responded by boycotting the 1984 olympics in LA


This is much more petty..

The Iranian will not compete against an Israeli because Iran does not recognize it as an existing nation... partially anti-semitism, partially politics... really now, maybe the Iranians are just afraid that they'll lose to the Israelis....Again....
again?

Ya know...again, like 1948, 1967, 1973...

As for the USSR...remember, this is when Detente was turning off and the cold war was warming up. Also, any look at the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan against Iraq shows how ruthless the Red Army could be, 2 million civilians dead... 25,000 Red Army soldiers... The boycott was a year after the invasion.

Stay on topic! Stop trying to defend Iran!
Uhm... the person wasn't defending Iran. If they want to, they can! You have no right to tell them what they can and can't do!!!

Ya know...again, like 1948, 1967, 1973...

As for the USSR...remember, this is when Detente was turning off and the cold war was warming up. Also, any look at the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan against Iraq shows how ruthless the Red Army could be, 2 million civilians dead... 25,000 Red Army soldiers... The boycott was a year after the invasion.

Yeah and you know how the Israeli's have the Palestinians under occupation.. gotcha! I fully understand your position. You're a hypocrite. Not hard to understand your position at all.

I thought the Olympics were about putting aside political, religious, and diplomatic conflicts for the spirit of competition.
Everything I've seen makes it seem like a nationalistic race to capture the most medals. I also don't remember an Olympic year that didn't have some sort of political agenda. Jesse Owens in '36? Munich 72? Compared to that, this is a total non-issue.

By the way, how many 'medals count' type threads are there in General already? I've seen at least three. Nice to see that cooperative Olympic spirit has submerged all national fervor here at NS.

Oh.

F*CK THE ARABS. Inferior scum...
RACIST! RACIST!!!!!!! MOD ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RACIST! RACIST!!!!!!! MOD ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG MODS COME QUICKLY!!!!11!!one!!!!!

(Wait a minute...)

OMG MODS COME QUICKLY!!!!11!!one!!!!!

(Wait a minute...)
Yes, I found your statement about Arabs very offensive, since I have blood ties there. Yes, I even know a few Arabs. They are actually nice people the ones I know. They are not "inferior scum" (to quote you).

Yes, I found your statement about Arabs very offensive, since I have blood ties there. Yes, I even know a few Arabs. They are actually nice people the ones I know. They are not "inferior scum" (to quote you).
Oh yes, of course. No sarcasm what so ever in that post at all.

You do know that Stephistan is a mod, right?

... maybe the Iranians are just afraid that they'll lose to the Israelis....Again....The Iranian is the World Champ...and Favorite to win the Gold Medal...The Israli is not a shot to the Gold medal...

Yeah and you know how the Israeli's have the Palestinians under occupation.. gotcha! I fully understand your position. You're a hypocrite. Not hard to understand your position at all.

No more hypocritical than using criticism of Israel to justify suicide bombers blowing up buses and resturants and such to kill civilians. No more a hyporcrite than you. Also, the Soviet Union was a dictatorship and the Israelis are a democracy which took the "occupied" lands in a defensive war... so honestly, I don't care... though I may have had sympathy for the Palestinians, suicide bombing basically made me see the light and support Israel. Oh and the Golan Heights are a nice little position from which to shell Israeli towns, which is what is was used for, so giving that up seems rather a demand on Israel. As I've also heard, didn't they pull out of Gaza unilaterally?

Oh yes, of course. No sarcasm what so ever in that post at all.

You do know that Stephistan is a mod, right?
Yes I do.
Oh, and I did fix my post. I'll save my scathing statements for an Anti-Bush thread.

My opinion:

If he wants to forfeit for any reason, let him and don't complain about it. No one is required to participate.

Yes, I found your statement about Arabs very offensive, since I have blood ties there. Yes, I even know a few Arabs. They are actually nice people the ones I know. They are not "inferior scum" (to quote you).

If you go read the first page, he was being totally sarcastic. He was actually defending the wrestler from Iran to make the decision if he so chose

Yes, I found your statement about Arabs very offensive, since I have blood ties there. Yes, I even know a few Arabs. They are actually nice people the ones I know. They are not "inferior scum" (to quote you)....Try reading it all again...

Ya know...again, like 1948, 1967, 1973...

As for the USSR...remember, this is when Detente was turning off and the cold war was warming up. Also, any look at the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan against Iraq shows how ruthless the Red Army could be, 2 million civilians dead... 25,000 Red Army soldiers... The boycott was a year after the invasion.

i'm almost positive iran wasn't involved in any of those wars

Well part of it was a joke against most Arab nations...Mainly Jordan, Syria, and Egypt were involved in said wars, but I believe both Iraq and Iran sent contigents of men to fight in them, and were defeated alongside their allies.

Iranians are not arabs.

modified: 3% of Iranians are arabs.

...Try reading it all again...r-e-a-d-s-l-o-w-l-y
Save your condescending tone for the next ignorant SOB. In fact, why don't you just ....*insert indignant muttering and other profanities here*

Ya know...again, like 1948, 1967, 1973...

As for the USSR...remember, this is when Detente was turning off and the cold war was warming up. Also, any look at the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan against Iraq shows how ruthless the Red Army could be, 2 million civilians dead... 25,000 Red Army soldiers... The boycott was a year after the invasion.The only way Iran Could be militarily involved with Israel is trough HIZBOLLAH...Then again...I cant say the Iranians lost...

Actually they are the only ones that have kicked Jewish ass...

And Israel is more afraid of Iran..than all the other Countries...

Can you really not make a distinction between standing up for Iran and pointing out that the US is just as evil?


.......
I'd like to know exactly what you are trying to say here. Are you intimating that the US is evil? Or that he was standing up for Iran? If the former, then you are an arrogant, egocentric prick and you should think long and hard about why you are so prejudiced against Americans. If the latter, then you should think long and hard about why you would support an action that was obviously based on hatred and prejudice. In either case, you are an ass.

Iranians are not arabs.

modified: 3% of Iranians are arabs.

So what? They are still Semites!

So what? They are still Semites!
i'm not sure persians are actually a semetic people

So what? They are still Semites!
No actually the majority are aryan.

Yes...but usually people connect Anti-semitism with the hatred of Jews;hence why I used it. I didn't want to use the term "racism" because that would be uncalled for, so I used a slightly less volitile term. Now if you wanted to be technical, yes, arabs are Semites. However, the term Anti-Semitism applies to Jews in its inception and usage... at least in the common use.

Yes...but usually people connect Anti-semitism with the hatred of Jews....people are wrong.

No actually the majority are aryan.

You're talking about 4000 years ago..

There, relations developed between the natives of Iran and the Semites of Mesopotamia who were developing an urban, agricultural civilization with well planned political and military structures.

I think they might of all mixed in with each other after 4000 years maybe?

You're talking about 4000 years ago..



I think they might of all mixed in with each other after 4000 years maybe?
No I am talking about the most recent census. Two thirds of the population are Aryan. They are not a semitic group. They don't speak a semitic language. They only semites in Iran are the minority populations.

people are wrong.try Anti-Jewish...or Anti-Zionist...
Anti-Semite is simply the Wrong term

people are wrong. What else is new?

Let's get back to the matter at hand. First of all, anti-Semitic does not mean anti-Arab, it means anti-Jewish. Second, the Iranian athlete did indeed withdraw due to what Iran's spokespeople referred to as involvement from the "Zionist regime". That is what they call anti-Zionism, which means there was a sentiment against Israel. The weight issue was the athlete's cover story. Thirdly, while some Israeli military operations seem unfair toward the people known as Palestinians (we'll leave out the history of that term for now), terrorist attacks from the Palestinians, or anyone, especially suicide bombings, cannot be tolerated anywhere and will not be tolerated in Israel. Such actions will always be retaliated against as long as the inital attacks are perpetrated. In this world, there is no such thing as letting yourself be hurt while not sticking up for yourself. That, my friends, is the awful truth.

Oh, and by the way, this one I'm not as sure about, but I would imagine that if someone qualifies for the Olympics and signs up to compete, so to speak, he or she must do so. As I see it, the spirit of the Olympics, which is for the world to unify and compete as athletes, not ethnic tokens, has been violated in this situation.

try Anti-Jewish...or Anti-Zionist...
Anti-Semite is simply the Wrong term

Not all Israelis are Zionists...that movement was mainly formed in the 19th century.


Anti-Jewish...try to add an "ism" onto that, to describe the philosophy...Anti-Semitism is a convienent word and accurate.

First of all, anti-Semitic does not mean anti-Arab, it means anti-Jewish.you are wrong....but like VasilyChuikov says..."what else is new".

Anti-Jewish...try to add an "ism" onto that.Anti-Jewishism.

very true that not all israelis are zionists, but many other people, especially today, are zionists, including myself. however, haters don't realize this. they refer to anything israeli as zionist, with a negative connotation usually attached.

if someone qualifies for the Olympics and signs up to compete, so to speak, he or she must do so.You are wrong...again.

wrong about the second. like i said, i wasnt sure. but i know for a fact that i'm right about the first issue. as a Jew, i can tell you with absolute certainty what anti-Semitism is.

Main Entry: Sem·ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

End of Story.

Main Entry: Sem·ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, esp British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

End of Story.
Almost two-thirds of Iran's people are of Aryan origin and speak one of the Indo-Iranian languages, though only Persian, which is written in the Arabic alphabet, is an official language. The major groups in this category include Persians (51%), Gilaki and Mazandarani (8%), Kurds (7%), Lurs (2%), and Baluchi (2%). The remainder are primarily Turkic people such as the Azeris (24%) and Turkmens (2%), but also include Arabs (3%), Armenians, Jews, and Assyrians and others. Arabic, being the language of the Qur'an, is taught in schools as well.

Most Iranians are Muslims; 89% belong to the Shia branch of Islam, the official state religion, and about 10% belong to the Sunni branch, which predominates in most Muslim countries. Non-Muslim religious minorities include Bahá'ís and Zoroastrians, both being religions that originated in Iran, as well as Jews and Christians. Only the latter three are officially recognised minority religions. Iran's population size increased dramatically in the latter part of the 20th century.


Persian is not a semitic language.

Almost two-thirds of Iran's people are of Aryan origin and speak one of the Indo-Iranian languages.

Alright, fair enough.

end of your story....

an·ti-Sem·i·tism (nt-sm-tzm, nt-)
n.
Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.

Discrimination against Jews.



The sum of the parts is not equal to the whole. But thanks for playing.

But thanks for playing.

First of all, don't be ignorant, second, since Arabs are Semites, if you're anti-Semite.. it would also apply to Arabs. But nice try.

It's not ignorance. It's from a dictionary!

It's not ignorance. It's from a dictionary!

Perhaps it is.. that's not the point.. the ignorant comment was your tone with me. Not your definition.

Ok lets take this from the top.

1) Arabs are Semites (Also from the dictionary)

2) If you are anti-Semite, how could it not apply to Semites'?

3) Maybe Arabs haven't had a lot to do with writing western dictionaries, who knows, who cares, it's a fact that Arabs are Semites' or are you claiming they are not?

Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.

Agreed. But it's laughable for the US to criticize the Soviet Union. We ought then to object to ourselves on the same grounds: Iraq, Panama, Korea, Vietnam, Chile, Libya, and so on.

Now, Iran doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist because it's profitable for the powers-that-be to keep a perpetual enemy, the most easy to create in the anti-Semitic atmosphere being the Jews. And this can be pretty well generalized everywhere else. So basically any nation-state criticizing any other nation-state is full of shit.

Would you define the war on terrorism as such a war?

And, I reckon most of you are fools. The olympics has always been political.

Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.

Thank you FoB.. :)

The sum of the parts is not equal to the whole.Mathematically speaking?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
anti-semitism

\An`ti-Sem"i*tism\, n. Opposition to, or hatred of, Semites, esp. Jews. -- An`ti-Sem\"ite, n. -- An`ti-Sem*it\"ic, a.


[Free Trial - Merriam-Webster Unabridged.]
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
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Thank you FoB.. :)
This is ridiculous, it is frickin sports people. I love to watch the best athletes in the world. It somehow has turned into a damn it, china has more medals then us thing. I mean, they announce the U.S. and like the entire state of california walked out. I love my country, I hate politics so, in these olympics I am boycotting medal counting and watching any team I can find. Haha, except the U.S. womens soccer team cus they just kick everyones butt...I want them to win lol

I'm sorry if I came off as ignorant; arrogant even. I am not disputing your definition of Semite. Rather, it's ANTI-Semite that I have a problem with. By the way, if my source doesnt matter, why should yours?

You know what? We're going to continuously disagree on this, as human nature would direct us to. You've got your ideas, i've got mine. I'm done.

No, Revolution, that was a reflection on psychology, not math.

Mathematically speaking?

anti-semitism

\An`ti-Sem"i*tism\, n. Opposition to, or hatred of, Semites, esp. Jews. -- An`ti-Sem\"ite, n. -- An`ti-Sem*it\"ic, a.


[Free Trial - Merriam-Webster Unabridged.]
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

You don't think it might just be possible that the term was in fact coined for the Jewish people, not because it would be the only people it would apply to, yet maybe because we are getting these definitions from western dictionaries?

Because you have to admit, it makes no sense. If "other" groups besides Jewish people are also "Semites" then by simple common sense, it would also apply to them. Yes?

You don't think it might just be possible that the term was in fact coined for the Jewish people, not because it would be the only people it would apply to, yet maybe because we are getting these definitions from western dictionaries?

Because you have to admit, it makes no sense. If "other" groups besides Jewish people are also "Semites" then by simple common sense, it would also apply to them. Yes?I think the Term was "Apropriated"...
... in the same Dictionary there was 3 definitions...1 said prejudice against Semites...the other 2 said prejudice against Jews....

I think the Term was "Apropriated"...
... in the same Dictionary there was 3 definitions...1 said prejudice against Semites...the other 2 said prejudice against Jews....

Ok, so it did apply to both. Thanks Revo :)

I think the Term was "Apropriated"...
If for 2 Generations...we use the Term Anti-Semite only to cover the Jews...50 years later...our Grand children will forget that Arabs(and others) are also Semites...

If for 2 Generations...we use the Term Anti-Semite only to cover the Jews...50 years later...our Grand children will forget that Arabs(and others) are also Semites...

Yeah, I agree with that. It still doesn't negate the facts though. However, I completely agree with you. As we seen in this thread tonight. It's already happened.

damn another fine flamy political debate turned into a boring exercise in semantics...


god you guys suck sometime...


wait i was right there in the thick of the posting during the transition...



god i suck sometimes.

damn another fine flamy political debate turned into a boring exercise in semantics...


god you guys suck sometime...


wait i was right there in the thick of the posting during the transition...



god i suck sometimes.There was no real debate to begin with, the Iranian didn't make wieght at the wiegh in, he wouldn't have been allowed to fight anyways. The whole Palestinian sympathy thing was just to save face.

But yeah, wasting this much time arguing the definition of "semite" does suck.

Ummm... for what it's worth, I don't think it's a terrible thing to look askance at our own boycotts of the Olympics, as well as the Russians', not because it means we support what this athlete did and why, but because NO NATION OR INDIVIDUAL should make ANY political statement during an intentionally apolitical and peaceful competition. That's the real point IMHO.

Oh.

F*CK THE ARABS. Inferior scum...


You Racist scum, I'm not even an Arab - I am an Anglo-Israelite (NOT JEWISH!)

And you talk so much crap, get lost loser!

1) Israeli's and Arabs are both Semites.

2) Every thing is politics including the former U.S.S.R. invading Afghanistan, perhaps the wrestler from Iran is protesting the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian's.

I'm not trying to defend Iran, however it never ceases to amaze me how some people will make any excuse to justify the exact same thing as ok for one side and not the other. Pot, kettle, black!

THERE is NO Such thing as an "Israeli" - they are a people who decendent from Esau. They are a lie. Never again will I say the term "Israel" until the land comes back under the control of the Israelites. Read Rev3:9, the land will be under a false people.

Modern state of Israel - counterfiet Sons of Esau

THERE is NO Such thing as an "Israeli" - they are a people who decendent from Esau. They are a lie. Never again will I say the term "Israel" until the land comes back under the control of the Israelites. Read Rev3:9, the land will be under a false people.

Modern state of Israel - counterfiet Sons of Esau
Israel is a nation. People who live in it are Israelites. This is a political forum, not a 6000 year old semantics forum.

Israel is a nation. People who live in it are Israelites. This is a political forum, not a 6000 year old semantics forum.

No they are not Israelites. The Israelites were YHWHs People, not some fake country.

No they are not Israelites. The Israelites were YHWHs People, not some fake country.
Biblical Israelis are one thing. Actual Israelis are another. By your reasoning, since I can trace my lineage back to Charlemange, I'm German, but those who live there now are not. Religious semantics don't matter in a political forum. Israelis live in Israel.

All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be called "Israel" because no Israelites are in it. Sure they call themseleves "Israelis" - but this is false. They have no Biblical ties to the land. If anything it should be renamed Cannan. Maybe if the Israelites return (won't happen) then it can be renamed back to Israel...but yeah It won't happen.

All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be called "Israel" because no Israelites are in it. Sure they call themseleves "Israelis" - but this is false. They have no Biblical ties to the land. If anything it should be renamed Cannan. Maybe if the Israelites return (won't happen) then it can be renamed back to Israel...but yeah It won't happen.
Then let's not call the capital of Virginia "Richmond," since no one descended from the Duke of Richmond lives there. Let's not call it America, because none of Amerigo's descendents live there. They are Israelis, because that's what their country is named. If the true Israelis are offended, they can go ressurrect themselves and complain.

THERE is NO Such thing as an "Israeli" - they are a people who decendent from Esau. They are a lie. Never again will I say the term "Israel" until the land comes back under the control of the Israelites. Read Rev3:9, the land will be under a false people.

Modern state of Israel - counterfiet Sons of Esau

You lied.

All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be called "Israel" because no Israelites are in it. Sure they call themseleves "Israelis" - but this is false. They have no Biblical ties to the land. If anything it should be renamed Cannan. Maybe if the Israelites return (won't happen) then it can be renamed back to Israel...but yeah It won't happen.

Bozo. :D

Israel is a nation. People who live in it are Israelites. This is a political forum, not a 6000 year old semantics forum.

Just to clarify, "Israelites" refers to the Biblical people. Israelis refer to the citizens of modern Israel.

You lied.



Bozo. :D



Just to clarify, "Israelites" refers to the Biblical people. Israelis refer to the citizens of modern Israel.

Where did I "lie"?

And Bozo? what I said it shouldn't be called Israel while no Israelites control it.

Where did I "lie"?

And Bozo? what I said it shouldn't be called Israel while no Israelites control it.

Wrong. You distinctly said:

Never again will I say the term "Israel" until the land comes back under the control of the Israelites.

Your next post used the term "Israel" twice.

So, you lied, and you're a bozo.

:D

Wrong. You distinctly said:



Your next post used the term "Israel" twice.

So, you lied, and you're a bozo.

:D

Have you been drinking?

I said that I wouldn't notice the country as being named Israel until it was returned to the Israelites (the true owners). I said I would notice Israel once it was.

No matter how opposed to Sharon I am (tho I have no problem with Israeli civilians), I can't believe those Iranian fundies just can't put their diffs with the Israelis behind them - I mean, geez, they're BOTH responsible in this little race war of theirs. If Israel can have goodwill why cant the Iranians??

*mutters under breath against how a bunch of Iranian theocrats in the 50s were able to subjugate an entire country from being somewhat pro-Western to fundies*

Iran, since the 1979 Islamic revolution, has never recognised Israel and no Iranian athlete has ever competed against an Israeli one. So first up, it was a political protest, not an anti-semetic one.
As to what the Israeli competitior had to say:
Ehud Vaks was crushed when he heard he would win his first match by forfeit. "I feel horrible for (Miresmaeili), and I'm sure if it was up to him, he would have fought," said Vaks, who lost in the second round. "I know what it feels like to lose, and this is worse. The politicians didn't let him fight. That is not the way I wanted to win. It is not fair to him. He was the favorite. It's a small world, the judo world, and I admire him as a fighter.

Hardly a comment from someone who has been insulted over his religious beliefs.
Now onto perhaps the real reason why he didn't compete:
Arash turned up for the weigh-in (hardly the conduct of someone refusing to fight) and was over the weight limit. He left immediately after the weigh-in and the Iranian camp issued the above reason why he wasn't competing.
"The IJF is surprised that such an elite player could not make his weight," said federation spokesman Michel Besson. "Everyone was so professional (Saturday). Today, we're surprised what happened. We need more information. Perhaps he is hiding something, but we don't know.
Iran obviously knew there was a chance he would face the Israeli, so why wait until the day of competition to announce the boycott? My guess is that he was out of shape and/or injured and likely not to win (he was the heavy favourite). This was the one way he could avoid embarassment and allow Iran a chance to use him for a polictical message.

So you should feel sorry for him, not hate him. I'm sure if given the chance he'd have fought. No-one's going to train for 4 years, become World Champ and then pull out minutes before competing at the Olympics cause of a political ideal are they? He knew he might have to fight the Israeli. If he felt that strongly, he would've pulled out way before.
It's just sad that the Olympics are sometimes used as a political forum, but that's life I guess. Of course since we're competing as countries there's no real getting away from that is there?
And, as I said, regardless it was a protest against the Israel state, not against Semetism itself. There is a difference there.

I guess this why the US and Israel like each other so much: Cause whenever something happens in protest against them they immediately take it to mean it's anti-Amercian or anti-Semetic.

1) Israeli's and Arabs are both Semites.
Only in the technical sense. In terms of popular usage I don't think that's a useful distinction.

1) Israeli's and Arabs are both Semites.

2) Every thing is politics including the former U.S.S.R. invading Afghanistan, perhaps the wrestler from Iran is protesting the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian's.

I'm not trying to defend Iran, however it never ceases to amaze me how some people will make any excuse to justify the exact same thing as ok for one side and not the other. Pot, kettle, black!

Sorry oh great educated one, but Iranians are Persians not Arabs. Please play again.

There was no real debate to begin with, the Iranian didn't make wieght at the wiegh in, he wouldn't have been allowed to fight anyways. The whole Palestinian sympathy thing was just to save face.The Islamic Republic of Iran, has never recognised Israel and no Iranian athlete has ever competed against an Israeli one. Not since the Iranian Revolution.

Sorry oh great educated one, but Iranians are Persians not Arabs.The question was...are The Iranian Semites?
We know The Arabs are...and we know some Jews are...like most ethnies from the Midle East...

isnt Semite all the non-White(brown) people from the Midle East? id like to know

First of all, don't be ignorant, second, since Arabs are Semites, if you're anti-Semite.. it would also apply to Arabs. But nice try.

Nice try doctor, but in "educated" society, anti-semite refers to anti-jewish. Ding Dong Morning Bells A Ringing!!!

Nice try doctor, but in "educated" society, anti-semite refers to anti-jewish. Ding Dong Morning Bells A Ringing!!!"educated" society should stck to the term anti-jewish....and stop using the Wrong term

Nice try doctor, but in "educated" society, anti-semite refers to anti-jewish. Ding Dong Morning Bells A Ringing!!!

Um in that case Educated society would be wrong. To be a Semite you must...MUST be a descendant of Shem (One of Noahs sons) - maybe if your lucky 10% might be, but the rest are not.

Sorry oh great educated one, but Iranians are Persians not Arabs. Please play again.
She didn't say that persians were arabs.

She didn't say that persians were arabs.
Does Friends of Bill mean Friends of Bill Clinton?

Perhaps you are a Friend of Bill W.?

or is it Friends of Mr. Bill?

The Islamic Republic of Iran, has never recognised Israel and no Iranian athlete has ever competed against an Israeli one. Not since the Iranian Revolution.Well this guy never would have gotten the chance to break the tradition if he wanted too, like I said he didn't make weight, he was forced to forfeit.

Um in that case Educated society would be wrong. To be a Semite you must...MUST be a descendant of Shem (One of Noahs sons) - maybe if your lucky 10% might be, but the rest are not.Jesus christ on a pogo stick! How many pages are you guys gonna waste arguing this? And you wanna bring that piece of fiction called the old testament in as a reference? Who the f**k cares what the classic definition of a semite is? The term anti-semite has evolved to mean anti-jewish. Deal with it and move on!

.. And you wanna bring that piece of fiction called the old testament in as a reference?The Old Testament is holy for a lot of people...you should not Insult them

Does Friends of Bill mean Friends of Bill Clinton?

Perhaps you are a Friend of Bill W.?

or is it Friends of Mr. Bill?
Bill Nye the Science Guy?!

The Old Testament is holy for a lot of people...you should not Insult themThe Old Testament is as believable as fact as Esop's fables or Grimm's fairy tales, either of which would make about as much sense as something to base a religion on. I'll state my opinion on it whenever someone brings it up, so what if it's "Holy", it's still crap. Anyone who believes it to be a record of historical facts is an idiot and I'll tell them that to their face if they ask.

Does Friends of Bill mean Friends of Bill Clinton?

Perhaps you are a Friend of Bill W.?

or is it Friends of Mr. Bill?
Friends of Bill Shankelehantz, King of the one-armed leprechauns.

Just how it was sad when the United States boycotted the olympics over afghanistan?

A war that they created, funding rebels 8 months before the Soviet Invasion and having prior knowledge that no uprising would have succeeded without outside support. Brzezinski also claims that the Administrations support for the rebels was the catalyst for the uprising and eventually the War - He said that they wanted to 'Give Russia a Vietnam', but evidentally not caring about the cost - 1 Million dead, 4 Million Homeless and a country split up into Warlord Factions - each as bad as each other (The Northern Alliance were regarded as worse than the Taliban by most people).

Hmmm, I can't seem to find out if Britain competed in the 1980 games, never mind.
I think its a strange way to show your objections to someone elses opinions, surely saying something like, "I don't agree with what his country has done to the palestines but I will fight him none the less" and then kicking his ass would make just as strong a point.

So getting back to the ORIGINAL point...

Frankly? Any individual who resigns from the entire Olympics because they just happen to not like the people they're playing against? Kind of a dink, in my opinion. (Think about it -- deconstruct his position, and it boils down to, "Yes, I am willingly giving up the chance to achieve fame and glory for myself and pride for my entire nation, because they are making me compete against a guy who...looks funny.") Far be it from me to stop someone from being a dink, because if you let them go on long enough they only prove their dinkhood to everyone else.

As for a nation's boycott, that's a more complicated situation that I haven't thought through completely, so at present I have no opinion.

Just how it was sad when the United States boycotted the olympics over afghanistan?

At least the U.S. didn't bother to show up.

Iran, by showing up agreed to uphold the Olympic Credo. Then reneged. It's disgusting.

Imagine this, Iran vs Israel in game to qualify for a World Cup.
The winner qualifies ... so Iran forfeits! Israel into the world cup :p

Iran, by showing up agreed to uphold the Olympic Credo. Then reneged. It's disgusting.

Not quite -- the TEAM showed up, but it was only ONE GUY that reneged. It was an individual decision, not a team decision. And again, if that's what that one guy wants to do, more fool him.

They would've propably removed his citizenship or something if he would've played..
any arab who has any contact with Israelis nevertheless visits Israel, get a ban from their country (Except ofcourse Jordanians)
I remember afew stories, a Syrian who got married with an Israeli in Jordan was banned from Syria and lost everything (except his new wife)
An egyptian merchent who lost everything while crossing the border..
etc..
Those people are quite extreme on those issues, and dictatorships(There are no arab/muslim democracies except Turkey) are usually very afraid of spies so u can understand..

Wait a minute, the US boycotted the 1980 olympics in Moscow to protest the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, which was particularly brutal and ruthless. The USSR responded by boycotting the 1984 olympics in LA


This is much more petty..

The Iranian will not compete against an Israeli because Iran does not recognize it as an existing nation... partially anti-semitism, partially politics... really now, maybe the Iranians are just afraid that they'll lose to the Israelis....Again....


Partly anti-semitism? Oh Purrrlease. Find one mention of 'Jew' in that article. Boycotting South Africa during Aparteid wouldn't have bought calls of 'Anti-Christian!'. If Israel keeps claiming all anti-Israeli feeling is Anti-semitism, then the anti-israelis will soon get so irritated they will become anti-semitic. Lets not bring name-calling and accusations of racism into rational and polite debate. Opposition to Israel should be acknowledged as a genuine political protest, not low-level racism. I'm against the Israeli policies on Palestine, but I am by now means an anti-semite, and to suggest it is frankly offensive, both to me and to the Jewish race, many of whom also oppose the Israeli action in Palestine. Lets keep this clean, people.

They would've propably removed his citizenship or something if he would've played..
any arab who has any contact with Israelis nevertheless visits Israel, get a ban from their country (Except ofcourse Jordanians)
I remember afew stories, a Syrian who got married with an Israeli in Jordan was banned from Syria and lost everything (except his new wife)
An egyptian merchent who lost everything while crossing the border..
etc..
Those people are quite extreme on those issues, and dictatorships(There are no arab/muslim democracies except Turkey) are usually very afraid of spies so u can understand..


Actually, Turkey is secular. But true, although I'd say American influences in countries such as Saudi Arabia have stopped democratic movements from flourishing as they might have...

Because he did not make weight and become disqualified, he then changes the reason in his own mind why he didn't get to compete, but facts are facts.
I personally think he purposly gained weight so he didnt have to compete because he was afraid that if he lost to this isreali what would of happened then? But whatever the reason he puts out there, it still doesnt mean sqaut if the governing body of the olympics disqualifies you. You lost your right to compete regardless if you were planning on or not.