NationStates Jolt Archive

There's been alot of talk about anti-semitism lately. And I thought I might run this poll to try to get an idea of how many people in NS actually are. Okee, comments please! :D

No, but I do have a scary interest in Nazism. :confused:

What's scary about that? I don't know...

I often criticise Israeli policy. So I guess that makes me an anti semite, nowadays. :rolleyes:

No anti-semites? That's nice. :)

I often criticise Israeli policy. So I guess that makes me an anti semite, nowadays. :rolleyes:

Yup, I guess it does.... :headbang:

I am a semite, so I can't be an anti-semite..

But I am anti-Israeli Govt.. so I guess I should feel very guilty that I supported Hitler's plans to wipe out the Jewish race.. http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Ya, I would define myself as an anti-Zionist....a sympathy many Jews share.

But I am anti-Israeli Govt.. so I guess I should feel very guilty that I supported Hitler's plans to wipe out the Jewish race..
Yes you should. Anti Israel government, or even not agreeing with it 100% = anti semitism. :p

i am completely against any form of racism.
i am also a Semite. i believe that neo-nazis and other racists should keep their views to themselves.

PR of Sanctaphrax

Actually .... most Jews are anti-Zionist ....

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

I am a Jew and I don't in any way believe that being against Zionism or against current Israeli politics makes a person an antisemite any more than hating Bush makes a person anti-American.

Well, I for one don't agree with you Universalist. To be anti semite is a form of racism based on thoughts regarding superiority of one race over another. To be critical about a nations policies is rather a sound part of the democratic process. I'm very critical towards a lot of Israeli policies, but I fell no anger or hate towards the Jewish people.

Secondly the palestinians are semitic people as well, so then I guess the Israeli government is anti semit.

Well, I for one don't agree with you Universalist. To be anti semite is a form of racism based on thoughts regarding superiority of one race over another. To be critical about a nations policies is rather a sound part of the democratic process. I'm very critical towards a lot of Israeli policies, but I fell no anger or hate towards the Jewish people.

Secondly the palestinians are semitic people as well, so then I guess the Israeli government is anti semit.

So what is it exactly that we disagree about?

Actually .... most Jews are anti-Zionist ....

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

I am a Jew and I don't in any way believe that being against Zionism or against current Israeli politics makes a person an antisemite any more than hating Bush makes a person anti-American.

Bravo for this man! Oh, and I dig your sig. :D

To be critical about a nations policies is rather a sound part of the democratic process. .

Oh my God!.. I can't believe what I'm hearing!!.. Racist!!.. Anti-Semite!!.. You should be n00kzerd!!..



;)

:p

Arabs are semites too, believe it or not. They have the same roots as the Jews. Kinda pisses me off to have some people I know (on both sides) beating each other down for what a bunch of power hungry arseholes did in their name.

No!

Arabs are semites too, believe it or not. They have the same roots as the Jews.

Yes, that's entirely true.

No!

Well.. from previous threads you do happen to use double-standards for Jews and Arabs.. so.. you are an anti-semite..

Jews are not the only semites, Arabs are also semites.

I find it hard to comprehend how Arabs are called anti-semites sometimes.

Semite is simply a racial grouping, similar to Caucasians, Aryans etc (Aryan is also a group - among them are the Celts, Indians and Iranians). It's just all gaenology. No real meaning only just a way of pidgeonholing.

No!LOL _Susa_...didn't you biach at the United Arab Emirates...only because they got cheered at the Olympics...

Actually .... most Jews are anti-Zionist ....

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

I am a Jew and I don't in any way believe that being against Zionism or against current Israeli politics makes a person an antisemite any more than hating Bush makes a person anti-American.


ok...well most jews would be very shocked at this pronouncmnet. Yes their are SMALL groups of very orthodox jews who believe we must wait for the messiah to return before we get israel back. However this is not a very popular view among most jews. Also, while criticism of israel is acceptbale as is criticim of the USA many people use their cirtiicsm of israel to hide anti-jewish feelings

oh and aslo if you want to be techincal, the Palesteniasn arabs are not semitse in the strict term of the word, the jews are desended from Abraham and Sarah who were from ur and therefore of indo euroepan desent, the arabs are the sons of Abraham and Hagar. since Hagar is african that makes the arabs not semites. however it is a modern term to apply lineieges visa vis the father making arabs semites in most peoples minds

...
Secondly the palestinians are semitic people as well, so then I guess the Israeli government is anti semit.

hmmm? The Israeli government, if anything, is anti-arabic. It's semite itself.

I'm not antisemite. I'm, well, Semite. And I'm not anti-Zionist. I'm, well, Zionist.

Absolutely!!
I dont like any kind of mite, they are itchy.

I am about an un-anti-Semitic as one can really be without bowing before Our Lord and Savior Ariel Sharon, who I think is hardly the right guy to be in power. I am a bit critical of Israeli policy toward the Palestinians, though I see where they are coming from. For the Americans, I will say this: If Mexicans periodically came across the border and blew themselves up in American cities just to take out civilians, you would understand if the U.S. government decided to take a few whacks back at Mexico. They probably would take some civilians, but that's life, especially when terrorists use civilians as human shields and what-not. Especially when they turn children into bombs...I hate children as much as the next person, but there's no need to turn them into bombs. Let them grow up into actual human beings, for Pete's sake.

I will say this, though - if Israel could be a little more surgeon-like rather than butcher-like in their attacks on Hamas, things might look a little better for them. Sure, some asshole anti-Semites and bleeding heart newspapers in Europe might rip them no matter what they do...they could invite Hamas over for a picnic and a game of soccer and they would see it as some sort of Jewish conspiracy for the simple fact that they are dumb, but a god number of people will figure out, "Hey, not only are they not killing too many civilians, but they have really kickass weapons! Neato!"

I critises the Zionist state Israels politic , but i am not a Anti-semite, but i strongly dislikes zionists :mad:

I know many Jews who believe the Israeli government's policies are wrong. Does that make them anti-Semitic?

I don't hate jews because they don't hate Americans.

....making arabs semites in most peoples mindsOnly Jews can decide who is Semite...and who is Anti-Semite <Sarcasm>

Wabster Main Entry: Sem·ite

1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=semite&x=14&y=11

Alse...Only Jews can say when a Genocide is big enough to be called Holocaust(or compared to)
....Its like they have a trademark on it...

Jews, Muslims and Christians can all be Semites. However, the term "anti-semitism" has always been referred to in reference to disparaging Jews in particular.

Criticizing something that Isreal is doing of course isn't anti-semitic, but I would argue that saying that Isreal has no right to exist most certainly is on the grounds that you are effectively saying that Jews have no right to a state.

Personally, I think Jews have a right to a state like any other people and it already exists, so that's great. However for everyone's sake they shouldn't try suicidal settlements in some kind of bid for expansion.

I think one of the biggest problems talking about the situation there is that whenever someone says something, they are branded with a label. There has suddenly become no room for error. One can say, for example, "I think the wall is a good idea, as long as it doesn't eat up large portions of the West Bank and divide Palestinian towns, as parts of it are doing."

But before you finish saying the sentence, you are branded a Racist Apartheid Colonialist Capitalist Socialist Baby-Eating Zionist who should get a room with Ariel Sharon.

The Middle Ground has evaporated from discussion of the Middle East.

I critises the Zionist state Israels politic , but i am not a Anti-semite, but i strongly dislikes zionists :mad:

I would also argue that people like Islamic Somalia are anti-Semitic. It's said far too often "No, I don't hate Jews...I hate Zionists and their state." The word "Zionist" does not have a singular definition and it has internal differences. What is a Zionist? What is a European?

Well, there is no such thing as the nation of Zion. Or the nation of Europe. But there are two government entities (Israel and the EU) that represent these ideals. There may be radical rightist Zionists who want all Arabs to be kicked off their land, however most just want there to be a Jewish state. There may be radical leftist EU-supporters who want a united State of Europe to become a massive socio-economic and military power to stand up to the Amerikans, however most in European countries probably just want better economic and social integration.

It's not a one-way thing. And often, people who really hate Jews will say they are against "Zionism" because it's a tricky subject. But in general, most Zionists want a Jewish state which is why Islamic Somalia is indeed saying somethig anti-Semitic by stating he is against Jews having a state.

The website http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ does not represent most Jews, but rather ultra-ulra-religious Jews who believe that a Jewish state must wait for the messiah, at which point we'll enter a new world order under God, yadda yadda. They are a small sector of Jewish society, and from what I can tell most Jews support some kind of a Jewish state to various degrees.

the term "anti-semitism" has always been referred to in reference to ...the term "anti-semitism" has always been used by the Jews...
Also....the term "holocaust" has always been used by the Jews...

the term "anti-semitism" has always been used by the Jews...
Also....the term "holocaust" has always been used by the Jews...

We don't generally use the term "holocaust" ... we use the term "Shoa". It's not the same thing.

the term "anti-semitism" has always been used by the Jews...
Also....the term "holocaust" has always been used by the Jews...

Uhh, not quite. Anti-Semitism has been used to describe anti-Jewish sentiments/activities for quite a long time. The idea that anti-Semitism can include non-Jews is a new concept that comes out of the obvious verbal vagaries with the word "anti-Semite". Nonetheless, it's generally established definition relates to Jews, because only until recently has there been a non-Jewish Semitic population in Europe (IE where European languages such as English comes from) .

Holocaust has not always been used by "the Jews". First off, the word is not a Jewish invention. Secondly, it's not used exclusively by Jews to describe the systematic murder of 6 million Jews (and 5 million other "non-Aryans") during WWII.

Thirdly, as has been pointed out, the Hebrew term for it is "Shoa" which does not translate into Holocaust.

Finally, the first instance of the word Holocaust in the English language comes from the chronicles of King Richard, who used the word "Holocaustem" to describe a mini-massacre of Jews in which they were forced to leave a ship at low-tide and were drowned when the tide came in.

Though I don't agree with everything the Israeli government does, I certaintly get annoyed by most of the criticism they receive. The state of Israel has been fighting a war on terror ever since it existed, and quite clean to, despite what the TV might be spoon feeding everybody.

What pisses me off even more is that even the more moderate people say that Israel and Palestine are like 2 bickering children. The Palestinians haven't made any serious effort to build up a real state or an infrastructure independent from Israel- most of them need to leech of Israels economy to earn a living. Furthermore Israel is the only one who is seriously trying to establish peace, but the Palestinians don't accept even if they're offered more then they demanded the day before. I don't understand how anybody could sympathise with the likes of the PLO and Hamas.

Uhh, not quite. Anti-Semitism has been used to describe Holocaust has not always been used by "the Jews". First off, the word is not a Jewish invention. Secondly, it's not used exclusively by Jews to describe the systematic murder of 6 million Jews (and 5 million other "non-Aryans") during WWII.

Thirdly, as has been pointed out, the Hebrew term for it is "Shoa" which does not translate into Holocaust.

Finally, the first instance of the word Holocaust in the English language comes from the chronicles of King Richard, who used the word "Holocaustem" to describe a mini-massacre of Jews in which they were forced to leave a ship at low-tide and were drowned when the tide came in.

It wasn't just non arryans that got killed off. If you were a political dissident, known homosexual, communist etc, you too would be shipped off in a train to concentration camps.
Holocaust is a latin term that translates to "thorough burning".

Why should I be anti Semitic? Jews are people, like anyone else. In fact, the existence and vocality of anti Semites makes me pro Semitic. Most anti Semites even agree they dislike most non-Whites, but something about Jews have a special place in their minds.

Most important in this discussion must be the difference between being anti-semite, that is being against Jews, and just being against what the state of Israel is currently doing. I have nothing against Jews, no more than I have against any other group of people, whether that group is based on religion, nationality, color of skin, sexuality, or whatever. I don't believe those kinds of things makes you more or less worthy of appreciation or disgust. I believe that the personality traits of the individuals is most important for whether I will like or dislike that individual.
I do dislike Iraeli policies regarding a lot, for instance that the Jerusalem mayor works against the HBTQ-movement in Israel, and tries to stop them from having a Pride parade. I dislike the fact that Israel performs what would be considered terrorist actions were they not directed towards Palestinians. However, those opinions does not make me dislike Jews as a people.
To put all this in perspective, I feel that the USA also acts in violation of the international laws of the UN, and that the international community should not be so lenient when it comes to Israel and the USA. To make a parallell, the larger countries in the European Union have recently gotten away with ignoring the demands made on public spending and national budgets by the Union, demands which would have invoked severe punishments had the transgressors been smaller countries like Finland, and not countries like Italy and France.
Well, that's my five cents for now. Cheers!

Yes you should. Anti Israel government, or even not agreeing with it 100% = anti semitism. :p

That would make every Israeli citizen who ever lived an anti-semite- including the Prime Ministers.

Actually .... most Jews are anti-Zionist ....

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

I am a Jew and I don't in any way believe that being against Zionism or against current Israeli politics makes a person an antisemite any more than hating Bush makes a person anti-American.

As Anglo-Judea pointed out, these folks are not really representative of "most Jews" (indeed, I think you would be hard-pressed to find any group that fits that description).

Jews Against Zionism, like Neturei Karta, is composed of a minority within a minority. While most Ultra-Orthodox Jews are by definition anti-Zionist, most don't actually take it as far as Neturei Karta, who have burned Israeli flags and attacked Jews they disagree with politically.

Furthermore, Neturei Karta is infamous in Israel for its other, less publicized activities, which include stoning cars that drive on the Sabbath, and attacking women dressed "immodestly" (i.e., wearing pants or showing skin).

Wow, what great role models. :rolleyes:

This site explains a little bit about Ultra-Orthodox Judaism, and also properly places it in context within Orthodox Judaism as a movement:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/363_Transp/08_Orthodoxy.html

Only Jews can decide who is Semite...and who is Anti-Semite <Sarcasm>

Bullshit. The term anti-semite was coined by Wilhelm Marr- refering to himself. He wanted a better word than "Jew-hater". So, while "semite" can refer to Jews and other people, "anti-semite" largely continues to be used in its original context.

Alse...Only Jews can say when a Genocide is big enough to be called Holocaust(or compared to)
....Its like they have a trademark on it...

Why shouldn't people feel proprietary about an event that had a drastic effect on them? Particularly when so many of the Holocaust comparisons are inaccurate, and often maliciously calculated? Don't you think Americans would be pissed if the Libyans had used the term "Pearl Harbor" to refer to when Reagan bombed Libya in 1986? Or if Palestinian refugees started referred to one of their horrible experiences as "The trail of tears", don't you think that would piss off a lot of Native Americans?

Why not just call an event for what it is? Why the constant need to compare it to the Holocaust? If something is bad enough for people to even attempt comparison, it should be bad enough to be analyzed- and memorialized- on its own.

I don't hate jews because they don't hate Americans.

Just trying to understand your logic/reasoning...... so if the Jews hated the Americans then you would hate the Jews? Did I get that correct?

Anyway......

I don't agree with many of Israel's government decisions, but then I don't agree with many of my own government's decisions (for the record...US) - I don't think that makes me anti-semitic. At least I hope not.

I personally feel a person should be "judged" on their actions/themselves rather than because they are born in a certain area, of a certain religion, or with a certain skin color.

edited for spelling.....

I do dislike Iraeli policies regarding a lot, for instance that the Jerusalem mayor works against the HBTQ-movement in Israel, and tries to stop them from having a Pride parade.

I agree. Though that's partly because Jerusalem's population has become mostly ultra-Orthodox. I've heard Tel Aviv has plenty of Pride (with a capital P :) )


To put all this in perspective, I feel that the USA also acts in violation of the international laws of the UN, and that the international community should not be so lenient when it comes to Israel and the USA. To make a parallell, the larger countries in the European Union have recently gotten away with ignoring the demands made on public spending and national budgets by the Union, demands which would have invoked severe punishments had the transgressors been smaller countries like Finland, and not countries like Italy and France.
Well, that's my five cents for now. Cheers!

You think that Israel is treated leniently in the UN? A disproportionate number of GA resolutions are against Israel. Whole comittees devote their entire agenda to condemning Israel, which is not allowed to serve on the SC or in certain comittees. A few months ago, the Committee of Women's Equality condemned the Israeli Occupation as a crime against women. A bit off topic, don't you think?

Last fall, an Israeli-sponsored resolution condemning the killing of children in a conflict was overwhelmingly rejected immediately after an Egyptian resolution condemning the killing of Palestinian children in a conflict was overwhelmingly passed.

I believe that the UN has delegitimized itself through too many GA resolutions condemning Israel. They are not binding and just devalue the weight of a GA resolution. No one listens to the UN anymore. Its resolutions have become almost worthless.

No, some of my heros were Jewish, like Alexander Berkman.

No. In fact, I have a very strange fondness for Judaism and those who follow it. All the Jews I've ever met have been exceedingly nice - although, to be fair, there haven't been a lot of them. But they do seem to have a rather strange magnetism for me. I took a test online that was supposed to measure unconscious prejudices (I don't remember the link but I'll try to find it and then edit), and for the anti-Semitism test, I got "Strongly predisposed toward Judaism". Whereas, for example, on the age and homosexuality tests, I got "Slightly predisposed toward young people" and "Little or no predisposition toward or against homosexuals".

I'm very curious why that is. I have no Jewish (or even religious) family, and didn't have any Jewish friends until quite recently, so I have no idea.

I am not anti-semitic. I just hate jews.

I'm not anti-Semitic.

For the Americans, I will say this: If Mexicans periodically came across the border and blew themselves up in American cities just to take out civilians, you would understand if the U.S. government decided to take a few whacks back at Mexico.
It's not comparable. Mexico is a fully sovereign country, so attacks on the US like that would be acts of war.

Of course not - if you remember my post in Decisive Action's little thread about the Zionite Protocols (or w/e) I sorta got really ticked at him

No. In fact, I have a very strange fondness for Judaism and those who follow it.....I'm very curious why that is. I have no Jewish (or even religious) family, and didn't have any Jewish friends until quite recently, so I have no idea.I was like that before...I was on the Jews side and I hated the Arabs...I didnt know why....Just Like you and most Americans...

Then I expent 2 years overseas...now I see the issues from a wider angle...open minded...

I was like that before...I was on the Jews side and I hated the Arabs...I didnt know why....Just Like you and most Americans...

Then I expent 2 years overseas...now I see the issues from a wider angle...open minded...

And your conclusions?

I don't think most Americans hate Arabs...at least I hope not. I don't mean to be accusatory, but in general, I find people seem to equate "open minded" with "anti-Israeli". Never quite sure why.

And your conclusions?IMO...we cannot play the peaceBroker in that conflict...we have lost all our crediblity...

For now...We have to get away from that bloody mess...

Its been a truly enriching read. Thank you all for your input! bump

if i was an anti-semite... I'd have to make a change in who I date :D

IMO...we cannot play the peaceBroker in that conflict...we have lost all our crediblity...

For now...We have to get away from that bloody mess...

I disagree. America is the closest thing to a "partner" that both sides trust. America has also given a lot of money- both to Israel and the Palestinians. If America "gets away" from the conflict- which is basically what we've done under Bush, vis-a-vis a peace process- we STILL get criticized.

I believe we have a responsibility to be an ally to Israel and Palestine. A TRUE ally. By helping them broker peace. However, it has to be a peace that they WANT. This was the problem with Camp David II.

After 4 years of death and destruction, it might be time to try again.

I was like that before...I was on the Jews side and I hated the Arabs...I didnt know why....Just Like you and most Americans...

Then I expent 2 years overseas...now I see the issues from a wider angle...open minded...

Oh, I don't even know anything about that conflict. (Yeah, I'm pathetically ignorant of international politics. But I could tell you about France!) And I don't hate Arabs, and I'm definitely NOT like most Americans (well except for the ignorance part. But that's gonna change!). I'm not on the Jews' "side" (wouldn't even know what the side was of), I just like them. For no apparent reason whatsoever, political, emotional, or otherwise.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html

Here's that link.

i dont get why people pick on semites, they usually pick on sum group because of their own weaknesses.

I disagree. America is the closest thing to a "partner" that both sides trust.You live in ....Jupiter?...Saturn maybe?

You live in ....Mars?

Wouldn't the gramatically-correct term be ON Mars?

And I stand by my statement. In terms of a side both Israel and Palestine can agree on as the closest thing to a "fair" moderator, the US still stands supreme. Or at least that's my impression.

Oh, I don't even know anything about that conflict. (Yeah, I'm pathetically ignorant of international politics. But I could tell you about France!) And I don't hate Arabs, and I'm definitely NOT like most Americans (well except for the ignorance part. But that's gonna change!). I'm not on the Jews' "side" (wouldn't even know what the side was of), I just like them. For no apparent reason whatsoever, political, emotional, or otherwise.You may be French...but You are very....errr...."American"

Wouldn't the gramatically-correct term be ON Mars?

And I stand by my statement. In terms of a side both Israel and Palestine can agree on as the closest thing to a "fair" moderator, the US still stands supreme. Or at least that's my impression.you are likely rigth about the gramatically-correct-term....

the rest...well its just your Impression...

No no, I meant I'm American, but I could tell you about France because I'm obsessed with France. In fact, French is the language I plan to take in high school, I watch the Tour de France every summer, the theme song to which I have memorized, and even New York City doesn't top Paris for places I'd like to spend a year or two living. Getting the picture? *embarrassed smile* It's disappointing that I SEEM American, though... that's really not the image I want to project. So back to the original question - why the heck do you think I find Judaism so charming, or something?

No no, I meant I'm American, but I could tell you about France because I'm obsessed with France. In fact, French is the language I plan to take in high school, I watch the Tour de France every summer, the theme song to which I have memorized, and even New York City doesn't top Paris for places I'd like to spend a year or two living. Getting the picture? *embarrassed smile* It's disappointing that I SEEM American, though... that's really not the image I want to project. So back to the original question - why the heck do you think I find Judaism so charming, or something?

Hard to say. It's probably just because you've had some positive interactions with Jews or Jewish things.

You might be interested in learning more about Jews, Judaism, Jewish culture, etc. Let me know, I'd be happy to point you to some resources.

As far as the France thing goes- I can't say I share your enthusiasm, but that's probably because after 9 years in a French school, I'm pretty much "Frenched-out" (and that was several years ago!)

why the heck do you think I find Judaism so charming, or something?I dont know...It was the same for me when I was in High school....Maybe because the movies had them on a positive ligth...

Either way...speaking French is interesting...Writing French is a Bioch...
I prefer Spanish.

The Supreme Council wishes to express its inherent disgust concerning all Anti-Semite activities anywhere in the planet.

We also would have to say that America may play as a mediator for peace between both sides of the age-old conflict although we would have to question its intentions. America is not, never was nor will be, the world's shepherd. The United Nations is as legitimate a global safeguard as any - and the US has shown a predisposition and a willingness to over-rule its decisions, disrupting the balance of power and the equality of nations it itself had so ardently helped establish.

I am an anti-Zionist, which in America makes me an anti-Semite. Funny because I don't actually hate any race.

Stupid ADL!

Man, if I only got this many votes on my election thread...