NationStates Jolt Archive

*The most dangerous terrorist in the world today who lied to start a war for oil in Iraq and who overthrew Haitis democracy and whiose allowing terrorism to make a comeback in Sudan is now for the third time trying to overthrow Venezualan democracy for oil

Jackson, Kucinich, Zinn Publicly Back Hugo Chavez:
Jesse Jackson and Congressman Dennis Kucinich have signed an open letter of support to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who faces a recall vote on Sunday. The letter reads in part "We are disturbed by our own government's interference in your internal affairs. The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a group funded by the U.S. Congress, has financed radical opposition leaders in their efforts to cut short your term. Some of the individuals funded by the NED participated in the April 2002 coup attempt against you." Other signers of the letter include Historian Howard Zinn, journalist Naomi Klein and Blase Bonpane
www.democracynow.org

I don't approve of us meddling in Venezuela's affairs, but Hugo Chavez isn't beloved by all of his people. Despite record high revenues from oil the economy there is in the toilet, and many blame his semi-communist policies for that.

I guessed before I even read this post that it was from Democracy now. Bleeding heart, knee jerk liberals at it again.

I don't approve of us meddling in Venezuela's affairs, but Hugo Chavez isn't beloved by all of his people. Despite record high revenues from oil the economy there is in the toilet, and many blame his semi-communist policies for that.
the only ones who dont like him are wealthy parasites whove been sucking the blood of the Venezualan people for decades and hoarding all the oil money for themselves. Chavez is the first president who refuses to pander to them and theyre lucky he doesnt put them all before a firing squad for treason

I guessed before I even read this post that it was from Democracy now. Bleeding heart, knee jerk liberals at it again.
theyre the only ones who do investigative journalism in all of corporate occupied America besides Vanity Fair

MKULTRA, are you anti-American or just anti-whole story? I've read this post and your other ones. You are one sided and not very honest on many points. It's ok to have an opinion, but why all the lies and exaggerations from you? You have bashed Bush for telling lies many times... how are you any better. You would get more respect and pull a few more people into your conversation if you were not so childish and angry about it.

Rikk =\=

the only ones who dont like him are wealthy parasites whove been sucking the blood of the Venezualan people for decades and hoarding all the oil money for themselves. Chavez is the first president who refuses to pander to them and theyre lucky he doesnt put them all before a firing squad for treason
Actually I heard an interview with a lawyer who was reduced to working as a peddler under his government. She and many others have faced unemployment and a lower standard of living. He has helped the desperately poor somewhat, but at the cost of ruining his economy.

*The most dangerous terrorist in the world today who lied to start a war for oil in Iraq and who overthrew Haitis democracy and whiose allowing terrorism to make a comeback in Sudan is now for the third time trying to overthrow Venezualan democracy for oil

Jackson, Kucinich, Zinn Publicly Back Hugo Chavez:
Jesse Jackson and Congressman Dennis Kucinich have signed an open letter of support to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who faces a recall vote on Sunday. The letter reads in part "We are disturbed by our own government's interference in your internal affairs. The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a group funded by the U.S. Congress, has financed radical opposition leaders in their efforts to cut short your term. Some of the individuals funded by the NED participated in the April 2002 coup attempt against you." Other signers of the letter include Historian Howard Zinn, journalist Naomi Klein and Blase Bonpane
www.democracynow.org

Jackson and Zinn are far from patriotic. Jackson is a radical, racist, rabid anti-American. Zinn is so radically left-wing that he makes Karl Marx look like Alan Stang, more fanatically anti-American than the Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, and every other terrorist thug combined, a whitewasher of totalitarian scum like Mao Tse-tung, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, etc., a compulsively lying idiot, and a Marxist extremist propagandist.

Jesse Jackson and Congressman Dennis Kucinich can be called lots of things, none of them patriotic. They hate America almost as much as MKULTRA.

Jesse Jackson and Congressman Dennis Kucinich can be called lots of things, none of them patriotic. They hate America almost as much as MKULTRA.

No one on Earth hates America more than Howard Zinn.

MKULTRA, are you anti-American or just anti-whole story? I've read this post and your other ones. You are one sided and not very honest on many points. It's ok to have an opinion, but why all the lies and exaggerations from you? You have bashed Bush for telling lies many times... how are you any better. You would get more respect and pull a few more people into your conversation if you were not so childish and angry about it.

Rikk =\=
dissent is the highest form of patriotism--Thomas Jefferson

Actually I heard an interview with a lawyer who was reduced to working as a peddler under his government. She and many others have faced unemployment and a lower standard of living. He has helped the desperately poor somewhat, but at the cost of ruining his economy.
the economy will suffer some growing pains as it becomes re-adjusted to correct years of looting by the parasite class

Jackson and Zinn are far from patriotic. Jackson is a radical, racist, rabid anti-American. Zinn is so radically left-wing that he makes Karl Marx look like Alan Stang, more fanatically anti-American than the Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, and every other terrorist thug combined, a whitewasher of totalitarian scum like Mao Tse-tung, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, etc., a compulsively lying idiot, and a Marxist extremist propagandist.
this is over the top--can you document any of these hysterical claims? I think the despot in our White House is 50 trillion times more dangerous and fanatically anti-american then Jackson and Zinn combined

Jesse Jackson and Congressman Dennis Kucinich can be called lots of things, none of them patriotic. They hate America almost as much as MKULTRA.
if I truly hated America Id blindly back the Bush oligarchys pro-terror agenda

No one on Earth hates America more than Howard Zinn.
I never even heard of him before--is our corporate occupied media censoring him the way they blackout Noam Chomsky?

this is over the top--can you document any of these hysterical claims? I think the despot in our White House is 50 trillion times more dangerous and fanatically anti-american then Jackson and Zinn combined

Read Zinn's books yourself. Never in history has there ever been anyone more anti-American.

I never even heard of him before--is our corporate occupied media censoring him the way they blackout Noam Chomsky?

All I know is he's a fanatically radical Marxist extremist whose contempt of America and anyone on Earth friendly toward America is unparalleled in history. He's really a propagandist, not a historian, and the media loves him.

Read Zinn's books yourself. Never in history has there ever been anyone more anti-American.
I never read Zinns book but just living under the Bush regime I can clearly say no one IN POWER has even been more anti-american then George Bush who is actively abusing the powers of his office to destroy democracy in America--the true terrorist is WITHIN

All I know is he's a fanatically radical Marxist extremist whose contempt of America and anyone on Earth friendly toward America is unparalleled in history. He's really a propagandist, not a historian, and the media loves him.
maybe it has something to do with americas genocidal foreign policys?

Having met Zinn in person, and read some of his writings, all I have to say is, Roach-Busters is a looney.

maybe it has something to do with americas genocidal foreign policys?
Genocidal? What are you, high or something? The USofA hasn't been involved in anything like a genocide since the indian wars in the 1800's.

Oh my not the genocide thing again.

maybe it has something to do with americas genocidal foreign policys?
Like ending the genocide in Iraq? Their anti-genocide agenda is a good genocide foreign policy, don't you think.

Genocidal? What are you, high or something? The USofA hasn't been involved in anything like a genocide since the indian wars in the 1800's.as a matter of fact I am high and if anything smarter because of it--try looking up what America did in Latin America in the 80s

as a matter of fact I am high and if anything smarter because of it--try looking up what America did in Latin America in the 80s
War, not genocide.

MKULTRA, it's nice to know idiots can believe whatever they want no matter how stupid it is. Liberals like yourself are an insult and a disgrace, just as a lot of conservative wackos are. I hope to God they don't let you spread your seed until you wake up and think about all the propaganda you have to believe in your zestful hatred of Bush. Seriously, do you have to convince yourself that Bush is worse than someone like Chavez? It's claims like those that make logical, sensible people hate and depise the far left because they're nothing but nutjobs. Do us all a favor and move to Canada, I hear they're pretty dumb up there, eh.

Hahahahahaha!!!

Like ending the genocide in Iraq? Their anti-genocide agenda is a good genocide foreign policy, don't you think.
they only care about genocide if theres oil wells to steal--otherwise we actively ignore it (keyword SUDAN)

War, not genocide.
it is if you only target civilians :mp5:

MKULTRA, it's nice to know idiots can believe whatever they want no matter how stupid it is. Liberals like yourself are an insult and a disgrace, just as a lot of conservative wackos are. I hope to God they don't let you spread your seed until you wake up and think about all the propaganda you have to believe in your zestful hatred of Bush. Seriously, do you have to convince yourself that Bush is worse than someone like Chavez? It's claims like those that make logical, sensible people hate and depise the far left because they're nothing but nutjobs. Do us all a favor and move to Canada, I hear they're pretty dumb up there, eh.
Ill move to Canada when King George moves to Saudi Arabia since he so obsviously envies their form of govt ;)

Having met Zinn in person, and read some of his writings, all I have to say is, Roach-Busters is a looney.
i have stated that several times already, its not quite that hard to realise

MKULTRA, it's nice to know idiots can believe whatever they want no matter how stupid it is. Liberals like yourself are an insult and a disgrace, just as a lot of conservative wackos are. I hope to God they don't let you spread your seed until you wake up and think about all the propaganda you have to believe in your zestful hatred of Bush. Seriously, do you have to convince yourself that Bush is worse than someone like Chavez? It's claims like those that make logical, sensible people hate and depise the far left because they're nothing but nutjobs. Do us all a favor and move to Canada, I hear they're pretty dumb up there, eh.
hypocrite hypocrite!

it is if you only target civilians :mp5:
According to Article 6 of the ICC statute, genocide is :

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:


(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I guessed before I even read this post that it was from Democracy now. Bleeding heart, knee jerk liberals at it again.

Of course it's referenced from DemocracyNow... it's MKUltra. Any and every thread he starts (which equates to about 20 per day) is definitely going to be a liberal jerk-off, so expect nothing less.

I don't even read his threads anymore, except once in awhile to amuse myself.

As far as Venezuela goes ... Hugo Chavez is a commie, and we still work to rid the world of communism. We always will and we always should.

as a matter of fact I am high and if anything smarter because of it--try looking up what America did in Latin America in the 80s

Supporting leaders who committed genocide and actually committing genocide are not the same thing (although, they're both pretty bad :().

Having met Zinn in person, and read some of his writings, all I have to say is, Roach-Busters is a looney.

First of all, please refrain from name-calling.
Second of all, name one thing I said about Zinn that was false.

Of course it's referenced from DemocracyNow... it's MKUltra. Any and every thread he starts (which equates to about 20 per day) is definitely going to be a liberal jerk-off, so expect nothing less.

I don't even read his threads anymore, except once in awhile to amuse myself.

As far as Venezuela goes ... Hugo Chavez is a commie, and we still work to rid the world of communism. We always will and we always should.
then why arent we trying to overthrow the Chinese govt?

First of all, please refrain from name-calling.
Second of all, name one thing I said about Zinn that was false.

You didn't say anything, you spewed bile.

Cite three of Zinn's lies, if you please.

Claiming that Howard Zinn is more anti-american than anyone is just lunatic.

What do we do with the enormous wealth which is produced in the U.S., $7 trillion of Gross National Product, which to a great extent is wasted, poured into the military budget, funneled into the top 1 percent of the population. To me, the issue is taking what we have—the enormous human and economic resources—and using them in a rational and human way: to do away with poverty, to house people and to clean up the environment, to create a national health system. We have the wealth to do all of that, but that wealth is being squandered and wasted and hogged by the greedy elements of the population, and everybody who's working on any issue has a stake in the distribution of that wealth

"I am willing to love all mankind, except an American"

You can disagree with Zinn, you can claim he minimizes the crimes of socialism, but to spew your spleen to the level you did is insane.

the only ones who dont like him are wealthy parasites whove been sucking the blood of the Venezualan people for decades and hoarding all the oil money for themselves. Chavez is the first president who refuses to pander to them and theyre lucky he doesnt put them all before a firing squad for treason

The fact that he threatens his political opponents with arrest is quite striking to me. That he got that fool Carter to certify the recent elections, even though there is evidence of tampering with the electronic voting is not a real surprise though. Chavez will bancrupt the country with his wealth redistribution. He is threatening Columbia and has ordered new Migs and other military hardware from Russia. When his term is up, I will be surprised if he goes quietly if he loses. Much like Saddam, he has an empire now.

if I truly hated America Id blindly back the Bush oligarchys pro-terror agenda

Nice back peddle! However, I have yet to hear you bash kerry for his lies. Why only Bush's when Kerry has lied too?

Ill move to Canada when King George moves to Saudi Arabia since he so obsviously envies their form of govt ;)

MK, we threw King George and his Troops off our soil in 1783 with the signing of the Treaty of Paris. We have been a soveriegn country since then. Get your facts straight.

*The most dangerous terrorist in the world today who lied to start a war for oil in Iraq and who overthrew Haitis democracy and whiose allowing terrorism to make a comeback in Sudan is now for the third time trying to overthrow Venezualan democracy for oil

Jackson, Kucinich, Zinn Publicly Back Hugo Chavez:
Jesse Jackson and Congressman Dennis Kucinich have signed an open letter of support to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who faces a recall vote on Sunday. The letter reads in part "We are disturbed by our own government's interference in your internal affairs. The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a group funded by the U.S. Congress, has financed radical opposition leaders in their efforts to cut short your term. Some of the individuals funded by the NED participated in the April 2002 coup attempt against you." Other signers of the letter include Historian Howard Zinn, journalist Naomi Klein and Blase Bonpane
www.democracynow.org

Since when did a fascist like Chavez become a liberal poster boy? I'm a card-carrying bleeding-heart liberal myself, and I can't see a lot to admire there. Yes, he has the support of a vast swathe of the population, who believe his overblown claims that he will sort out the endemic corruption, keep Venezuela's oil nationalised etc. All he has done is starve the country of badly needed foreign investment, and throw his weight around a bit in OPEC. Look, the man thinks he is Simon Bolivar reborn. He's a paratroop commander who tried to stage a coup d'etat back in the 80s. This man is not a friend of the people, he is just using them for his own selfish ends. Venezuela is a mess, for sure, but it's cloud cuckoo land to think Chavez has any real interest in sorting it out.

I don't approve of us meddling in Venezuela's affairs, but Hugo Chavez isn't beloved by all of his people.


He is only beloved by a *majority* of his people.
In democracies (you may need a refresher on how they work because the US is not currently one) the leader gains power through the consent of the governed.
This consent is established in a general election where the candidate with the most votes (preferably with a simple majority but a plurality works) is selected as leader.

According to Article 6 of the ICC statute, genocide is :
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a crime to plan or incite genocide, even before killing starts, and to aid or abet genocide: Criminal acts include conspiracy, direct and public incitement, attempts to commit genocide, and complicity in genocide.
Punishable Acts The following are genocidal acts when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group’s existence:

Killing members of the group includes direct killing and actions causing death.
.....
Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group’s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.

Genocidal acts need not kill or cause the death of members of a group. Causing serious bodily or mental harm, prevention of births and transfer of children are acts of genocide when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group’s existence.
...
A national group means a set of individuals whose identity is defined by a common country of nationality or national origin.

An ethnical group is a set of individuals whose identity is defined by common cultural traditions, language or heritage.
...
Intent is different from motive. Whatever may be the motive for the crime (land expropriation, national security, territorrial integrity, etc.), if the perpetrators commit acts intended to destroy a group, even part of a group, it is genocide.

The phrase "in whole or in part" is important. Perpetrators need not intend to destroy the entire group...

Supporting leaders who committed genocide and actually committing genocide are not the same thing (although, they're both pretty bad :().Installing Pupet Genocideal Dictators...is inciting Genocide...

this is over the top--can you document any of these hysterical claims?

Ah, how wonderfully ironic.