NationStates Jolt Archive


Poll for Americans

Enodscopia
14-08-2004, 18:34
Do you think America has a right to conquer and rule over North and South America. I think that we do. Do you? I mean the USA.
The Black New World
14-08-2004, 18:38
Do you mean USA when you said America?
Enodscopia
14-08-2004, 18:40
Do you mean USA when you said America?
Yes
Anticarnivoria
14-08-2004, 18:44
Do you think America has the god given right to rule over North and South America. I think that we do. Do you? I mean the USA.

...when did god tell you that? that's moronic - god told me to tell you to shut up.
Klonor
14-08-2004, 18:49
No, we don't. Why would we have that right? Because we're democratic? Bah, there are other Democracies in the American continents. Becuase we are the sole reason Germany was defeated in WWII? Unless I'm mistaken Canada was there for D-Day right beside us. Becuase we already control a lot of land? Canada has more.

The only reason that can be given is that God simply felt like it, and unless I'm mistaken God would either appoint Israel or Italy to the task if he felt like it, since they (not America) are the center of the Judeo-Christian faith.

The U.S.A. is a kickass country. We are. But we are not the best country on Earth and we do not have the right to ruke everything. Get used to it.
Ashmoria
14-08-2004, 18:50
it would be a freaking nightmare to even try it.
Enodscopia
14-08-2004, 18:50
...when did god tell you that? that's moronic - god told me to tell you to shut up.

I didn't mean it like that I meant it more in the sense of a birth right.
Joey P
14-08-2004, 18:52
I don't beleive in god. As for whether the USA has a right to rule over North and South America, no. Not until we subdue them through wars of conquest.
Von Witzleben
14-08-2004, 18:53
I hate America.
Joey P
14-08-2004, 18:55
I hate America.
America hates you back, and we are armed.
Grays Hill
14-08-2004, 18:57
I think that America is having its time in power. Just like Rome did, then Spain, then England, and now America. After America, it will probably be Russia, or China, or maybe even North Korea.
Joey P
14-08-2004, 18:58
I think that America is having its time in power. Just like Rome did, then Spain, then England, and now America. After America, it will probably be Russia, or China, or maybe even North Korea.
My money's on china.
Von Witzleben
14-08-2004, 18:59
America hates you back, and we are armed.
Boohooo..I´m so scared.
Joey P
14-08-2004, 19:00
Boohooo..I´m so scared.
Thought so. Pussy.
Davistania
14-08-2004, 19:01
I think that America is having its time in power. Just like Rome did, then Spain, then England, and now America. After America, it will probably be Russia, or China, or maybe even North Korea.

Spain?
Joey P
14-08-2004, 19:03
Spain?
Sure. Spanish armada was pretty tough, had a nice little empire in the new world for a minute too.
Enter nation here
14-08-2004, 19:03
I didn't mean it like that I meant it more in the sense of a birth right.
If we are going by birth right wouldn't the natives have a better claim to these lands?
Joey P
14-08-2004, 19:06
If we are going by birth right wouldn't the natives have a better claim to these lands?
Nope, they weren't born US citizens. Let's face it. We're the USA and we own you. :D
Davistania
14-08-2004, 19:09
Sure. Spanish armada was pretty tough, had a nice little empire in the new world for a minute too.

The Spanish armada got sunk by a little wind storm!

Their empire was just as big as Portugal's.

Portugal!

Does Portugal deserve to be up there with Rome or England?
Joey P
14-08-2004, 19:10
The Spanish armada got sunk by a little wind storm!

Their empire was just as big as Portugal's.

Portugal!

Does Portugal deserve to be up there with Rome or England?
ok i'm feeling generous
Bobada
14-08-2004, 19:14
I hate America.
I love America, but I respect your opinion.
Knight Of The Round
14-08-2004, 19:16
Do you think America has a right to conquer and rule over North and South America. I think that we do. Do you? I mean the USA.


Manifest Destiny has been played out. Anything else is just being greedy.
Knight Of The Round
14-08-2004, 19:19
The Spanish armada got sunk by a little wind storm!

Their empire was just as big as Portugal's.

Portugal!

Does Portugal deserve to be up there with Rome or England?


Wasn't it a hurricane?
Davistania
14-08-2004, 19:20
Wasn't it a hurricane?

In the English Channel?
The Sword and Sheild
14-08-2004, 19:22
Wasn't it a hurricane?

Attacked by burning ships at Calais, then attacked at Gravelines, it could not return through the English Channel (becuase of weather, not so much the English) so it had to sail around Scotland, some of the most treacherous waters in Europe, which ended up wrecking most of the fleet on the beaches and rocks around Scotland. The English did little comparitively to stop the Armada, aside from Calais.
Revolutionsz
14-08-2004, 19:28
Sure. Spanish armada was pretty tough, had a nice little empire in the new world for a minute too.a minute?....what about Napoleon?... how long did he last...
Knight Of The Round
14-08-2004, 19:30
Attacked by burning ships at Calais, then attacked at Gravelines, it could not return through the English Channel (becuase of weather, not so much the English) so it had to sail around Scotland, some of the most treacherous waters in Europe, which ended up wrecking most of the fleet on the beaches and rocks around Scotland. The English did little comparitively to stop the Armada, aside from Calais.


Thanks :) For the information.
Knight Of The Round
14-08-2004, 19:34
In the English Channel?


Often if a hurricane reaches near the British Isles, it is in a region of such cooler waters, that it will lose it's strength. However, perhaps not classified as a "Hurricane" (winds greater than or equal to 74 mph), it can still be a devastating storm and can produce a lot of rain, wind, and perhaps spawn severe storms.

That is why I thought it might have been a hurricane and not just a wind storm.
Buuyaland
14-08-2004, 19:45
It was just the fact that the weather that time of year in the ?North? sea I believe is always bad. And to get away from the burning ships they had to cut their anchors and leave them. Without the anchors, they couldn't ride out the storm, so it just blew them wherever it pleased...and there are lots of things to hit out there...especially when you are surrounded by lots of other big ships :)
Cheesy custard
14-08-2004, 19:59
The English did little comparitively to stop the Armada, aside from Calais.

See,Americans belittlling other nations again.Britain didn't do much in WW2 either apparently,according to Hollywood.Actually did The USA defeat the French at Agincourt as well. :sniper:
Caer Rialis
14-08-2004, 20:00
Yes, Spain was a major world power from the 1490's through the early 1600's. Use of riches gathered from their American empire, the Habsburg emperers such as Charles V and Philip II. Unfortuantely, Philip's overseas adventures against Britan and in the Netherlands, coupled with his neglect of the Spanish economy and agriculture, led to the decline of Spain as a GReat Power.

Now, as to the poll. What a ridiculous question. What eaxacatly were you trying to prove? That you are a chauvanistic America-firster, or someone with a grudge against the U.S.? Please, try again.

**shakes head, remembering why I rarely come onto these boards**
Na-me
14-08-2004, 20:00
I wander in looking for politics and instead find the weather channel.
heh.
Davistania
14-08-2004, 20:05
Yes, Spain was a major world power from the 1490's through the early 1600's. Use of riches gathered from their American empire, the Habsburg emperers such as Charles V and Philip II. Unfortuantely, Philip's overseas adventures against Britan and in the Netherlands, coupled with his neglect of the Spanish economy and agriculture, led to the decline of Spain as a GReat Power.

It wasn't a world power in the 1490's. It was still under Muslim control in the 1490's!
Von Witzleben
14-08-2004, 20:06
It wasn't a world power in the 1490's. It was still under Muslim control in the 1490's!
Just Granada. And that was conquered in 1492.
Connersonia
14-08-2004, 20:09
Wow you are all completely underplaying Spains role in World History. For several centuries, during the "Dark Ages" (so called, because Britian kept lottle documentation of what happened durng that time), the city of Cordoba was the International center for learning, science (especially astronomy and medicine), and innovation.

Spain also had an Empire much more impressive than that of Britain, up until the late 18th Century, when Napoleon complicated things for them, and we made Spain a battlefield (places like Salamance and Toledo etc)

Also, Britain was probably the most powerful country in the world from any time between 1215 (with the foundation of the first "parliament", and the Magna Carta etc), and 1485, with the Wars of the Roses, which saw the Tudor regime get its claws into Britain. However, Spain was also incredibly powerful- the Armada was the biggest ever fleet that had sailed in European Waters (possibly world waters, but there are rumours of Massive Chinese fleets setting off in 1441). Britain was so scared of Spain, that we never really directly attacked them- Drake and Raleigh played Pirate, occasionally plundering the odd ship, and sinking it, but they were ordered under the strictest terms to never over-play their hands, because the British Monarchs knew that they could never take on the Spanish and win. If the Armada hadnt hit upon bad luck (and British military Genius- Calais has got to be one of the cleverest operations ever attempted upon sea), then British people would currently be brawling after a few cervezas, instead of alcopops. WWII would never have happened (Spain would have eventually taken all of Europe- Napoleon would be no match!), and they would have been in a better position to retake North America (which they would have done- everyone knows how tetchy Spain gets over territory [Gibraltar springs to mind])

France was also a massively powerful nation- however, Britain just had that extra edge, compounded by the fact that it was the first nation to have an industrial revolution (Belgium came second!), which meant that it became literally advanced of all other nations, as none is today (America and Japan could probably be the only countries that could claim to be, and, with technology being the important issue, Japan has a stronger claim).

It is typcial of the ignorance of the majority (not all, so dont accuse me of blanket statements) of Americans, that I should have to type this post. Im only 16, and so everything that I have typed I have learnt through my education system- I havent used any websites (hence probably some of my dates being a little incorrect). Therefore, I feel that America has no right whatsoever to control more of the world than it already does- the world is dangerous enough already, we dont need another couple of hundred million of introverted people!

By the way, although not born in America, my mother is American, and I live in Pennsylvania. So no race cards, or "you would say that you hate us" please
Connersonia
14-08-2004, 20:12
apologies to last few posters, none of you have undersestimated Spain. Guess you are all European (ie have knowledge of other countries than your own)
Geffland
14-08-2004, 20:18
Do you think America has a right to conquer and rule over North and South America. I think that we do. Do you? I mean the USA.

I think we have a right to defend ourselves and our allies. We have DEFENSIVE rights, not offensive rights. The USA is the strongest nation for now, but that is almost over. Why make enemies now when we are strong, that can have the will and power to destroy us later, when we are weak?
Connersonia
14-08-2004, 20:29
I think we have a right to defend ourselves and our allies. We have DEFENSIVE rights, not offensive rights. The USA is the strongest nation for now, but that is almost over. Why make enemies now when we are strong, that can have the will and power to destroy us later, when we are weak?

Well said! Nice to see someone with long-term visions. Hegemony by one nation is never eternal- the sun never set on the British Empire- now its no more. Rome used to control all of Europe- its now a polluted, corrupted city, in a polluted, corrupted country. The list is endless- America has even less of a base to establish itself as an Empire anyway! There are enough unemployed people in China, and subsitence farmers, that, if the Government sorted itself out properly, they could produce every commercial, non-food related product that the world needed, for an average price of 40 pence (about 73 US cents)- this includes cars, toys, clothes, the lot. So American economic hegemony will definately end- and America will have been the worlds super power for about 150-200 years (became it in 1918, will end anytime before 2100, probably).

All of the European nations realised long ago that they would lose their power, and so they have now banded together to form the EU- this could see Europe become the next superpower (again!, but this time as a unified state), but my money, and that of most people, is on China (unforunately, as Im not a big fan of Communism or socialism)
Incertonia
14-08-2004, 20:48
*Looks at poll*

Do you no?

I no.
Bedou
14-08-2004, 20:58
I vote :Your poll sucks.
Bedou
14-08-2004, 20:59
*Looks at poll*

Do you no?

I no.
No= A negative
KNow= KNowledge of something.
The Sword and Sheild
14-08-2004, 21:05
Spain also had an Empire much more impressive than that of Britain, up until the late 18th Century, when Napoleon complicated things for them, and we made Spain a battlefield (places like Salamance and Toledo etc)

Impressive only in size, it stopped becming as lucrative as the French or British Empires long before then.

Also, Britain was probably the most powerful country in the world from any time between 1215 (with the foundation of the first "parliament", and the Magna Carta etc), and 1485, with the Wars of the Roses, which saw the Tudor regime get its claws into Britain.

Debatable whether or not anything can be considered a "country" during these times, but I think the Mediterranean powers were stronger, but there really isn't anything to draw a comparison with so I'll guess we'll just leave it.

Britain was so scared of Spain, that we never really directly attacked them- Drake and Raleigh played Pirate, occasionally plundering the odd ship, and sinking it, but they were ordered under the strictest terms to never over-play their hands, because the British Monarchs knew that they could never take on the Spanish and win.

That, and a war was not financially sound option, it's not quite that they were afriad of total defeat.

If the Armada hadnt hit upon bad luck (and British military Genius- Calais has got to be one of the cleverest operations ever attempted upon sea), then British people would currently be brawling after a few cervezas, instead of alcopops.

I'm not quite aware of British military situation on land during this time, but could the Spanish have won on land and occupied England as well? A lot of people say had the Luftwaffe won the Battle of Britain Sealion would succeed, and this is ludicrous, but I don't know about England's army at this time.

WWII would never have happened (Spain would have eventually taken all of Europe- Napoleon would be no match!)

Spain was always running on burrowed money, it's economy would've collapsed the same way it did with England, and Napoleon might not have had to deal with the British thorn in his side.

and they would have been in a better position to retake North America (which they would have done- everyone knows how tetchy Spain gets over territory [Gibraltar springs to mind])

Again, their economy goes bunk, so this is just giving France a better position.

It is typcial of the ignorance of the majority (not all, so dont accuse me of blanket statements) of Americans, that I should have to type this post. Im only 16, and so everything that I have typed I have learnt through my education system- I havent used any websites (hence probably some of my dates being a little incorrect). Therefore, I feel that America has no right whatsoever to control more of the world than it already does- the world is dangerous enough already, we dont need another couple of hundred million of introverted people!

By the way, although not born in America, my mother is American, and I live in Pennsylvania. So no race cards, or "you would say that you hate us" please

I agree
Incertonia
14-08-2004, 21:06
No= A negative
KNow= KNowledge of something.
I know. Read the poll. Mine was a sarcastic comment. Dumbass.
Caer Rialis
14-08-2004, 21:12
apologies to last few posters, none of you have undersestimated Spain. Guess you are all European (ie have knowledge of other countries than your own)

Nope, I'm from the U.S.---the only other country I have visited is Texas *LOL*
Bedou
14-08-2004, 21:13
I know. Read the poll. Mine was a sarcastic comment. Dumbass.
No, your's was poor attempt at sarcasm, a pitiful attempt to play at words.
I am sorry though I forget that there are many children on these boards.
Von Witzleben
14-08-2004, 21:16
I am sorry though I forget that there are many children on these boards.
Alzheimer is a b*tch huh?
United Freedoms
14-08-2004, 21:19
Zing!

I find it humorous how there are now an equal number of votes for "yes we have that right" and "I Hate America".
Nigh Invulnerability
14-08-2004, 21:44
Manifest destiny, baby. America already has dibs on the moon, why should the rest of the earth go unaccounted for?
Incertonia
14-08-2004, 22:08
No, your's was poor attempt at sarcasm, a pitiful attempt to play at words.
I am sorry though I forget that there are many children on these boards.
Welcome to the ignore list, Bedou. I don't have time to deal with children.
Gigatron
14-08-2004, 22:23
I hate America.
I second that. the U$ of america deserves being hated. Simply making polls like this fuels my hate against the U$ of america.
Joey P
14-08-2004, 22:28
I second that. the U$ of america deserves being hated. Simply making polls like this fuels my hate against the U$ of america.
Yeah, we all get together at night and think up ways to piss you off. This poll is part of our diabolical plan.

An annoying post by one guy is a really good reason to hate a whole nation.
Davistania
14-08-2004, 23:07
Spain also had an Empire much more impressive than that of Britain, up until the late 18th Century, when Napoleon complicated things for them, and we made Spain a battlefield (places like Salamance and Toledo etc) Then why didn't it make any money? Money is what makes countries work. Money is what makes empires work.

and they would have been in a better position to retake North America (which they would have done- everyone knows how tetchy Spain gets over territory [Gibraltar springs to mind]) Yeah, except it's really, really hard to retake North America. There's this big ocean in the way.
Enodscopia
14-08-2004, 23:27
I second that. the U$ of america deserves being hated. Simply making polls like this fuels my hate against the U$ of america.

Maybe thats why I the name said FOR >>>>>AMERICANS<<<<<<<<<, Americans being the key word.
Siljhouettes
15-08-2004, 01:13
Do you think America has a right to conquer and rule over North and South America. I think that we do. Do you? I mean the USA.
Could you explain why the USA has this right?
Mr Basil Fawlty
15-08-2004, 01:22
...when did god tell you that? that's moronic - god told me to tell you to shut up.
:p :p :p best answer a men can give :fluffle:
Enodscopia
15-08-2004, 01:36
Could you explain why the USA has this right?

Because we can.
Incertonia
15-08-2004, 02:05
Because we can.
So might makes right? Jeez.
Grebonia
15-08-2004, 03:28
I hate America.

Little man syndrome huh?
Abdeus
15-08-2004, 03:33
No, we don't. Why would we have that right? Because we're democratic? Bah, there are other Democracies in the American continents. Becuase we are the sole reason Germany was defeated in WWII? Unless I'm mistaken Canada was there for D-Day right beside us. Becuase we already control a lot of land? Canada has more.

The only reason that can be given is that God simply felt like it, and unless I'm mistaken God would either appoint Israel or Italy to the task if he felt like it, since they (not America) are the center of the Judeo-Christian faith.

The U.S.A. is a kickass country. We are. But we are not the best country on Earth and we do not have the right to ruke everything. Get used to it.

First of all you forgot Saudi Arabia (home to mecca). second there is no "judeo-christian" faith. judeo-christian is solely a demographic, but not one. and what if the terrorists are right? why have we always assumed that they are wrong?
Anticarnivoria
15-08-2004, 03:39
First of all you forgot Saudi Arabia (home to mecca). second there is no "judeo-christian" faith. judeo-christian is solely a demographic, but not one. and what if the terrorists are right? why have we always assumed that they are wrong?

they hate americans because of the "american should take over the world" attitude, and our support of the israeli nation. honestly, I can't really see a reason to disagree with them - but I'm a pacifist so I wouldn't fight anybody physically over it. If I had to pick a side that is more justified, it would probably be the arabic terrorists - we've been funding their enemies and generally being assholes for half a century. I condemn both sides though, killing is never the answer.
Carthage and Troy
15-08-2004, 04:05
Also, Britain was probably the most powerful country in the world from any time between 1215 (with the foundation of the first "parliament", and the Magna Carta etc), and 1485

Connersonia, you are obviosly British. The British Isles were relatively unimportant in medieval times.

It wasn't until the Britain's Industrial Revolution in the 18th Century that such a small island was able to rise to become the most powerful empire that has ever existed.

I would revise the superpowers timeline to this general list, dates are approximations.

Mesopotamia 4000-2000 BC

Egypt 2000 BC - 1000 BC

Greece 1000 BC - 100 BC

Rome 100 BC - 400 AD

China 400 AD - 700 AD

Islamic Empire 700 AD - 1200 AD

Mongolia 1200 AD - 1350 AD

Ottoman Turks 1350 AD - 1500 AD

Spain 1500 AD - 1650 AD

France 1650 AD - 1810 AD

Britain 1810 AD - 1950 AD

USA 1950 AD - today
_Susa_
15-08-2004, 04:20
No, but the monroe doctrine is cool.
Dontgonearthere
15-08-2004, 04:33
I think Mexico and the US should merge into one country called 'Canada Sucks', but it aint gonna happen.
Colodia
15-08-2004, 04:36
I think Mexico and the US should merge into one country called 'Canada Sucks', but it aint gonna happen.
lmao....I really did laugh at that one :D

Anyway, I believe we have the CHOICE to do it, but we don't have the right to do it unless we got a really good reason. Such as Canada threatening us with T3H 1084092389408 N00KS! But I doubt that'll happen....right now.
Squornshelous
15-08-2004, 04:47
http://www-theor.ch.cam.ac.uk/people/ardlouis/junk/demons.of.stupidity.gif
Purly Euclid
15-08-2004, 04:52
Why does answering "yes" look diabollically attractive?
Xerxes855
15-08-2004, 05:35
I think that America is having its time in power. Just like Rome did, then Spain, then England, and now America. After America, it will probably be Russia, or China, or maybe even North Korea.

True that America will not always be the leader. My guess that a united Uerope will take its place.

[Edit] I voted NO on this. We have no more right to rule any nation then the Nazis did to rule Uerope or Uerope did to rule the middle east during the crusades. I am certainly patriotic, but I am definitly not a Nationalist. We have the right to intervene in genocides, but not anything else.
Lower Aquatica
15-08-2004, 05:49
True that America will not always be the leader. My guess that a united Uerope will take its place.

My money's on "The United Hebrab Republic" as the next superpower.

If anyone gets THAT reference, I will faint dead away.
Davistania
15-08-2004, 05:54
Americathlon?
Lower Aquatica
15-08-2004, 06:27
Americathlon?

As promised....

[thud]
Connersonia
15-08-2004, 19:10
Connersonia, you are obviosly British. The British Isles were relatively unimportant in medieval times.

It wasn't until the Britain's Industrial Revolution in the 18th Century that such a small island was able to rise to become the most powerful empire that has ever existed.

I would revise the superpowers timeline to this general list, dates are approximations.

Mesopotamia 4000-2000 BC

Egypt 2000 BC - 1000 BC

Greece 1000 BC - 100 BC

Rome 100 BC - 400 AD

China 400 AD - 700 AD

Islamic Empire 700 AD - 1200 AD

Mongolia 1200 AD - 1350 AD

Ottoman Turks 1350 AD - 1500 AD

Spain 1500 AD - 1650 AD

France 1650 AD - 1810 AD

Britain 1810 AD - 1950 AD

USA 1950 AD - today


Wow I sure hope that you are joking. America became the industrial and economic superpower of the world from 1918- WW1 did cause the farming collapse in America in the 1920s (at least in wheat- tobbaco died because of the moth, and nylon replaced cotton as a material). The Americans made such vast, inestimable profits out of WW1 (Im not being cynical, this is true. Im also not suggesting that America did not join WW1 until 1917 to make this become true, so no flaming please :)). After the War, the European countries had to completely rebuild (Britain fell off of the gold standard, for Christ's sake!, France had spent 4 years hosting german artillery, and Germany had £6000 million in reparations to pay [a sum that would take until 1980 to pay off!]). America used this economic hegemony to loan money to these nations, and was ruthless in collection of the debt.

Also, when you say that the British Isles were "relatively unimportant in the Medieval Period", I really wonder if you know anything about World History. Britain had what was recognised as the biggest economy from roughly 1300AD onwards (the wool industry was incredibly lucrative). The economy really took off with the Industrial Revolution, but why do you think Britain achieved this first? It is only because of the already massive economy and technological advancement (we embraced the destruction of small, personal farms, and turned them into massive, almost Soviet-like Collectives (but we actually made a profit)). Britain and France fought for control for many centuries, with Britain always being succesful- the 100 years war, from 1337-1453 (it has a rather confusing name) was dominated by British victory, and since roughly 1360-something, the King Crowned King of England, was also proclaimed King of France. It was only with the advent of Napoleon that France became a tangible threat, that could actually beat Britain, and we and the Prussians (whose role is rarely documented, but ultimately vital) stopped this in 1815 at Waterloo.

As for the comments made by some about Spain's Empire being non-lucrative- they controlled nearly all of South America! This had vast gold mines, jewel mines, and luxurious goods that Spain acquired for a minimal expense, then sold on for a huge profit. Indeed, King Philip II of Spain offered Queen Mary of England (1553-1558)a dowry that equated to nearly twice as much as her personal wealth at that time (and she was a rich lady)!

Ultimately, it is impossible for any one nation to have complete dominance over many others forever- Britain was fortunate to have the longest-ever Empire, as for the period that it was the most powerful nation on Earth (not 1810-1950, please go and learn some history!), the economic conditions were right. This is now true for America- technology has changed, and America was there in the 1910s and 1920s to provide it (they could have been challenged by the Soviet Union, the only nation not to be affected by the Great Depression of the 1930's, if it were not oriented to the creation of arms and no profit). When times again change, and the world looks for a new provider, who will be conveniently placed to cope with the demands, then America will fade into nothingness, maintaining a permanent seat at the UN, because, like Britain and France, its influence will be tangible in the memory of the world, and the world feels it has to recognise their contribution.

If I had to choose a nation that should rule the World, then America would be 2nd to the bottom, after Italy, because there are probably only 4 politicians in the whole of Italy who are not corrupt. I think that it is the turn of a unified Europe to take control again, yet I think that a more pragmatic view to take would be China, and possibly India after that, or simultaneously (they both have massively expanding economies, and vast resources)
The Sword and Sheild
16-08-2004, 02:40
Wow I sure hope that you are joking. America became the industrial and economic superpower of the world from 1918- WW1 did cause the farming collapse in America in the 1920s (at least in wheat- tobbaco died because of the moth, and nylon replaced cotton as a material). The Americans made such vast, inestimable profits out of WW1 (Im not being cynical, this is true. Im also not suggesting that America did not join WW1 until 1917 to make this become true, so no flaming please :)). After the War, the European countries had to completely rebuild (Britain fell off of the gold standard, for Christ's sake!, France had spent 4 years hosting german artillery, and Germany had £6000 million in reparations to pay [a sum that would take until 1980 to pay off!]). America used this economic hegemony to loan money to these nations, and was ruthless in collection of the debt.

It was still however, not a superpower or even Greatest Power, since it's military was pitifully small at a time when this was a measure of a nation's status (3 divisions), only the Navy was ever prepared for war.

Also, when you say that the British Isles were "relatively unimportant in the Medieval Period", I really wonder if you know anything about World History. Britain had what was recognised as the biggest economy from roughly 1300AD onwards (the wool industry was incredibly lucrative).

They also imported a lot of material, Venice, Spain, the Ottomans, France were all far more powerful than England at this time.

The economy really took off with the Industrial Revolution, but why do you think Britain achieved this first? It is only because of the already massive economy and technological advancement (we embraced the destruction of small, personal farms, and turned them into massive, almost Soviet-like Collectives (but we actually made a profit)).

Mostly natural things already there led to it, abundant natural resources needed to start the Industrial Rev. already existed there (coal from Wales was vital), a large network of usable rivers to power early factories and transport materials, and a populace ready to advance, if France had had any of these things going for it, the Industrial Revolution could have started there.

Britain and France fought for control for many centuries, with Britain always being succesful- the 100 years war, from 1337-1453 (it has a rather confusing name)

They still lose, eventually all of their French territory is lost.

was dominated by British victory

It was, Sluis, Crecy, Agincourt, Poitier, but they still do not win.

and since roughly 1360-something, the King Crowned King of England, was also proclaimed King of France.

That was more to annoy the French, every monarch that held it knew he/she was not the King/Queen of France, and the title was dropped in the Act of Union between Britain and Ireland (not the one between England and Scotland). They also hold a lot of other meaningless titles, including King of Judea, something they have even less a tangible claim to.

It was only with the advent of Napoleon that France became a tangible threat, that could actually beat Britain, and we and the Prussians (whose role is rarely documented, but ultimately vital) stopped this in 1815 at Waterloo.

France was Britain's cheif rival for almost all of the 18th century, the advent of Napoleon only meant that France might actually invade Britain, prior to that, the French didn't want to spend the effort to invade Britain, and the same was true for Britain. And Napoleon was stopped at Waterloo for the second time, the Austrians, Russians, some Italians, and Spanish all helped defeat Napoleon the first time with the Prussians and British. Waterloo was his return after losing the first time, and he was stopped by Wellington and Blucher.

As for the comments made by some about Spain's Empire being non-lucrative- they controlled nearly all of South America! This had vast gold mines, jewel mines, and luxurious goods that Spain acquired for a minimal expense, then sold on for a huge profit. Indeed, King Philip II of Spain offered Queen Mary of England (1553-1558)a dowry that equated to nearly twice as much as her personal wealth at that time (and she was a rich lady)!

And all these lands were insanely lucrative, the problem was it created massive inflation in Spain that made them hugely in debt and their economy in the crapper. Not to mention the always tenous system their economy ran on with bankers.

Ultimately, it is impossible for any one nation to have complete dominance over many others forever- Britain was fortunate to have the longest-ever Empire, as for the period that it was the most powerful nation on Earth (not 1810-1950, please go and learn some history!)

Britain was most definitely not the dominant power from 1350 onwards, until Napoleon's defeat, they were not the largest or most powerful Empire on Earth, neither was France, economic strength is important, but it is not the deciding factor.

the economic conditions were right. This is now true for America- technology has changed, and America was there in the 1910s and 1920s to provide it (they could have been challenged by the Soviet Union, the only nation not to be affected by the Great Depression of the 1930's, if it were not oriented to the creation of arms and no profit).

The Soviet Union wasn't affected by the Great Depression becuase they were already a wreck from the Russian Civil War, had never truly industrialized, and were beginning of the first Five Year Plan, they weren't even industrialized by 1941.
Pathlesspaganism
16-08-2004, 02:52
I love The USA and I love captialism and freedom. However not everyone in the workd shares my feelings. I do not belive that we have the right to force our way of live on others. With freedom comes high crime. Some people would rather be safe than free. I am not one of them. But it is not my place the judge the ones that are. or to force MY way of life on them.
Siljhouettes
16-08-2004, 02:53
Because we can.
That's what Clinton said. :)

My real answer:

No, you can't. The forces are already stretched very thin in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you honestly believe that you could launch full-scale invasions of every nation in the Americas?