NationStates Jolt Archive

It happens all the time in NS... could it work in RL?

Probably not.

depends on how it is redistributed, probably.

in real life excessively high tax rates stifles economic development and stagnates productivity

no reason to do better, you dont benefit by it

It happens all the time in NS... could it work in RL?
i think its a programming problem that causes it to happen in NS, like selecting the same choice to the same question twice will increase the tax rate

A 100% taxe rate is basically being communist: all the ressources are put in common and then (theoritically) redistributed evenly to benefit all the population. On paper, communism sounds great, although in practice it's never been made to work properly. Just think about soviet Russia and Mao's communist China: those weren't exactly successful in the even redistribution part :-P

Although my nation has a 100% tax rate since about 5 seconds after its creation, I prefer to think of it as socialist, thank you very much ;)

Well, it does sound like the epitome of collectivism. I'd say not, however, I mean, there must be at least a little around to spend for yourself.

It happens all the time in NS... could it work in RL?


No, I'd burn my crops and destroy my fields before turning over 100% of everything. Or just stop planting all together.

I'd be 100% behind a revolution to topple the system that imposed such punitive taxes.

No, I'd burn my crops and destroy my fields before turning over 100% of everything. Or just stop planting all together.

I'd be 100% behind a revolution to topple the system that imposed such punitive taxes.

Then....I fear to ask....

Why in the name of all that is red and soviet did you call your nation "Communist" Mississippi ?

Then....I fear to ask....

Why in the name of all that is red and soviet did you call your nation "Communist" Mississippi ?


Don't ask stupid questions. It's just a name.

It happens all the time in NS... could it work in RL?


I'll never be willing to pay anything more than 30% at the extreme most. Anything above 50% and I'd start cheating on the taxes or finding some method to foment a rebellion.

Well, it does sound like the epitome of collectivism. I'd say not, however, I mean, there must be at least a little around to spend for yourself.

i fail to see how a 100% tax rate necessitates you not having any discretionary spending. all they have to do is give x% of it back to you to spend as you please.

the real problem with a 100% income tax rate is that its stupid. its like adding an extra step. why even bother assigning incomes and wages in the first place and then taking all of those? why not just declare state or collective ownership of the means of production and be done with it? then you just distribute the products of all of that in whatever manner and don't have to tax anybody's income at all.

Then....I fear to ask....

Why in the name of all that is red and soviet did you call your nation "Communist" Mississippi ?
a communist in mississippi is like the one guy that didnt join the KKK

(sorry i know thats bad but i couldnt resist)

a communist in mississippi is like the one guy that didnt join the KKK

(sorry i know thats bad but i couldnt resist)


It's just a nation name.

Besides, almost 100% of the communists in the south were outside agitators.





"And may we take note of one other fact, with all trouble with communists that some sections of this country have . . . there are not enough native communists in the South to fill up a telephone booth . . . . and THAT is a matter of public FBI record."

Governor George Wallace 1963

http://www.archives.state.al.us/govs_list/inauguralspeech.html

It's just a nation name.

Besides, almost 100% of the communists in the south were outside agitators.





"And may we take note of one other fact, with all trouble with communists that some sections of this country have . . . there are not enough native communists in the South to fill up a telephone booth . . . . and THAT is a matter of public FBI record."

Governor George Wallace 1963

http://www.archives.state.al.us/govs_list/inauguralspeech.html
so quote wallace all you want? who cares

i fail to see how a 100% tax rate necessitates you not having any discretionary spending. all they have to do is give x% of it back to you to spend as you please.

the real problem with a 100% income tax rate is that its stupid. its like adding an extra step. why even bother assigning incomes and wages in the first place and then taking all of those? why not just declare state or collective ownership of the means of production and be done with it? then you just distribute the products of all of that in whatever manner and don't have to tax anybody's income at all.

You know, you actually make it sound like it could work ;)

I agree with you,though: the best way to go is socialism. Income tax a part of poeple's earnings and CORPORATIONS' PROFITS and you get enough money to fill in the gaps between uber-rich and utlra-poor. You leave a healthy percentage of their income to everyone for their happiness and well being, and let companies turn out profits to encourage foreign investments and get a vigorous economy.

Of course an 100% tax rate is possible but even in theory it is a pointless hassle. Governments should (in theory) serve only as regulators and not as providers. With Government run services there is gross inefficiency due to bureaucracy and the removal of the incentive function of prices. It would also take away the reward of hard work and talent - you get the same service regardless of how successful you are so why bother.

In theory the ultimate government is free market, i.e. no government. But the free market is tainted with the unethical capitalist fat cats which is why a utopia will be impossible for as long as humans are selfish and greedy (as long as humans exist then). That is why Governments are needed - but unfortunately the role of Government has been corrupted since its conception and it is still too interfering in our modern world.

so quote wallace all you want? who cares


He he gathered almost 10 million votes in 1968. He also had 46 electoral votes.

People must have an incentive to work. Either a reward, or fear of a punishment. Take away money and you take away the reward. This leaves threat of punishment, like being sent to Siberia if you don't, as the only way to get people to work.

For one, this removes man's control of himself and his labors, and reduces him to property of the state. Slavery, pure and simple.

For two, people do the absolute bare minimum amount of work they can get by with, as there is no reason to put in effort and do any better.

Stepping out of theory and into practice, all examples to date of 100% taxation "worker's paradises" have needed machine gun towers and barbed wire to keep their slaves in.

He he gathered almost 10 million votes in 1968. He also had 46 electoral votes.
let me try this again

who cares?

under president jimmy carter the top income tax rate was 91% and we remember how the economy was at that point. thats close to 100%. a flat 100% income tax, now that would destroy the economy totaly. talk about losing insentive. In my experience the government taxes things when they want less of it in existance. very high income taxes destroy personal profit, which I think we need more of not less.

The top income bracket was 91%, but there were enough loopholes in the code that nobody paid anything approaching that level.

The real result of that sort of tax system is that the entrepreneurial types who keep the economy going are forced to invest their money according to the tax laws and not business sense or consumer demand.

Thus the almost 20 years of unprecedented economic growth when Reagan fixed up the tax code. People are amazingly industrious if the government doesn't prevent them from it.

The top income bracket was 91%, but there were enough loopholes in the code that nobody paid anything approaching that level.

The real result of that sort of tax system is that the entrepreneurial types who keep the economy going are forced to invest their money according to the tax laws and not business sense or consumer demand.

Thus the almost 20 years of unprecedented economic growth when Reagan fixed up the tax code. People are amazingly industrious if the government doesn't prevent them from it.

indeed, I agree entirely. you know, even at the worst of this recent "recession" the united states walked all over nations who had higher taxes and were enjoying their version of "prosperity". the american economy is the largest, fastest growing, economy in the world right now with low unemployment, inflation, and interest rates. must we constantly invent new ways to screw it up ( like this 100% tax thing)? the best economy is a free one and history bares out that statement.

no reason to do better, you dont benefit by it

That depends on what the summum bonum is. If you consider doing better in and of itself a good, then anything else you might get out from it is secondary.

all the ressources are put in common and then (theoritically) redistributed evenly to benefit all the population.

actually, nothing was said about how it was redistributed, thus this may even or uneven

People must have an incentive to work. Either a reward, or fear of a punishment. Take away money and you take away the reward. This leaves threat of punishment, like being sent to Siberia if you don't, as the only way to get people to work.

one problem. money isn't exactly the only possible kind of reward. surely you must have a few sports trophies lying around?

People must have an incentive to work. Either a reward, or fear of a punishment. Take away money and you take away the reward. This leaves threat of punishment, like being sent to Siberia if you don't, as the only way to get people to work.

For one, this removes man's control of himself and his labors, and reduces him to property of the state. Slavery, pure and simple.

For two, people do the absolute bare minimum amount of work they can get by with, as there is no reason to put in effort and do any better.

Stepping out of theory and into practice, all examples to date of 100% taxation "worker's paradises" have needed machine gun towers and barbed wire to keep their slaves in.
yup yup
exactly
we need incentives to work hard.

100% tax rate is slavery.

Not that I agree with 100% taxes either, but...

Money isn't the only kind of reward; there are also priveliges.

Maybe, citizens could start off with infra-red clearance, then move up to red, and then work their way up towards Ultraviolet... but then they might lose a shovel or forget to tie their shoelaces, and be vapourised for being mutant commie traitors! Friend computer knows everything! Serve the computer! The computer is your friend.

No chance that could work. Ever. Period. If you try to take that much from people, they will rise up and kill you.

No chance that could work. Ever. Period. If you try to take that much from people, they will rise up and kill you.

not necessarily. for example, if they felt they were getting an appropriate amount back out of the system.

not necessarily. for example, if they felt they were getting an appropriate amount back out of the system.

No one ever gets an appropriate amount back. Money is just too precious.

No one ever gets an appropriate amount back. Money is just too precious.

i think that probably says a lot more about you than it does about anything else

Well I wouldn't bother working hard to make lots of money. I'd stick with a simple bum job that involves no thinking like I have now.

Well... now that we have anylysed its RL-ness...

Can it be explained away to make sense in the NS world?

Yeah, as people have said, that's pretty much communism. It would only work in a command economy. It is possible, though. For example, in a tribe, family, or other communal situation, people do work and the cash/result gets pooled and distributed according to a plan mostly unrelated to the work. It requires a group mindset rather than an individualist one, along with a general lack of selfishness. Even in the U.S. you can see a bit of a shift in this direction in special, tough circumstances, such as total war (WWII). In this case, people don't just work for compensation and pay taxes due to compulsion, instead recieving motivation out of a desire to do their part to support the nation and troops.

i think that probably says a lot more about you than it does about anything else

It also says alot about the average, working human being. People don't want to give up their hard earned money. If you tried to take it from them by force, there would be disagreement in at least 50% of the populace, and unless you enforced a police state system, there would be an uprising in some form.

A 100% tax rate doesn't work in Rl, it doesn't even make sense on paper. If someone makes a regular habit of taking everything you own, why would you go through the effort required for ownership? Why not just sit on your butt all day into you and your couch meld into a single entity?

A 100% tax rate doesn't work in Rl, it doesn't even make sense on paper. If someone makes a regular habit of taking everything you own, why would you go through the effort required for ownership? Why not just sit on your butt all day into you and your couch meld into a single entity?

How would you own a couch with a 100% tax rate?

Citizen: the Federal Government hereby issues one couch, large; one bag, chips, potato.

Citizen: the Federal Government hereby issues one couch, large; one bag, chips, potato.

If the government starts providing Cheetos, then maybe.

How would you own a couch with a 100% tax rate?
Didn't you read my post? I would be melded into it, the couch and I would become one! One more powerful and magnificent than either me, or couch! One who could rattle the very foundations of the earth, and change the nature of the universe (Provided it wasn't too dangerous. And it wasn't too cold out. And it wouldn't take too long. And I would still get my Dorito supply. And nothing good was on T.V. And it didn't involve to much work. And I felt like it. And if I could have a nap later.)

Anyway, why would you want a couch that some guy's butt was melded into? How would you get it off, anyway? Blood stains are such a pain to get out of vinyl, y'see.

Didn't you read my post? I would be melded into it, the couch and I would become one! One more powerful and magnificent than either me, or couch! One who could rattle the very foundations of the earth, and change the nature of the universe (Provided it wasn't too dangerous. And it wasn't too cold out. And it wouldn't take too long. And I would still get my Dorito supply. And nothing good was on T.V. And it didn't involve to much work. And I felt like it. And if I could have a nap later.)

Anyway, why would you want a couch that some guy's butt was melded into? How would you get it off, anyway? Blood stains are such a pain to get out of vinyl, y'see.

And for irony you could have a sidekick that was a Turk melded to an Ottoman.

And for irony you could have a sidekick that was a Turk melded to an Ottoman.
No, I do not need a sidekick. The couch is both side and kick enough for any true hero. I am the one, not the one out of two. Besides, another person would just cause problems (Like who would control the remote? Who gets that bag of Cheese Doritoes? Why is that man attached to the Ottoman?).

Anyway, who would believe it? Someone getting attached to an Ottoman, thats just silly. A man attached to a couch, that is gut wrenching drama at its finest.

Now a girl attached to an Easy Chair, that would get peoples attention. Because girls attached to chairs is funny.

No, I do not need a sidekick. The couch is both side and kick enough for any true hero. I am the one, not the one out of two. Besides, another person would just cause problems (Like who would control the remote? Who gets that bag of Cheese Doritoes? Why is that man attached to the Ottoman?).

Anyway, who would believe it? Someone getting attached to an Ottoman, thats just silly. A man attached to a couch, that is gut wrenching drama at its finest.

Now a girl attached to an Easy Chair, that would get peoples attention. Because girls attached to chairs is funny.

What if the man attached to the ottoman couldn't afford a chair, because of the 100% income tax, and so he had to sit on an Ottoman instead? As for easy chair girl, she would have to look good to get attention, but if she looked good, then she wouldn't be sitting in the easy chair long enough to get attached to it.

What if the man attached to the ottoman couldn't afford a chair, because of the 100% income tax, and so he had to sit on an Ottoman instead? As for easy chair girl, she would have to look good to get attention, but if she looked good, then she wouldn't be sitting in the easy chair long enough to get attached to it.
Hm . . .
I'm not so sure, but the couch says you are good at headthink. However, I would have to have the remote, because otherwise it would be anarchy and madness. The last thing I need is something to be weird around here. Especially considering the fact that it takes a forklift to move my couch anywhere.

Hm . . .
I'm not so sure, but the couch says you are good at headthink. However, I would have to have the remote, because otherwise it would be anarchy and madness. The last thing I need is something to be weird around here. Especially considering the fact that it takes a forklift to move my couch anywhere.

Wait! I've got it! When the forklift has the couch in the air, you could get Ottoman boy to put wheels on it, (since the Ottoman is so much lighter) and then you could be mobile. You could put locks on the wheels so that they wouldn't get annoying, and you could have a guy attached underneath a table (because he likes crazy glue) to adjust the table to suit your needs. If anyone got insolent, you could run them over with the forklift.

Wait! I've got it! When the forklift has the couch in the air, you could get Ottoman boy to put wheels on it, (since the Ottoman is so much lighter) and then you could be mobile. You could put locks on the wheels so that they wouldn't get annoying, and you could have a guy attached underneath a table (because he likes crazy glue) to adjust the table to suit your needs. If anyone got insolent, you could run them over with the forklift.
Yes, it is all coming together now. The wheel locks would have to be usable easily, no hero should be seen grunting while struggling with his wheel locks. However, In exchange for your aid in my pursuits, you may drive the forklift.

Soon, the fight for T.V. Guide, justice, and another can of Pringles will begin!

In NS: My country has a 100% tax rate and the worst economical rating possible............but oddly enough we are ~100th in the world for happiness because we take care of our citizens. I like to think that the money funneled out of the now-nonexistant super-rich and corporations allows everyone to have a lifestyle roughly equivalent to upper middle class in most countries. I'd say our economy is only rated so low because its really fragile and closed(we have enough agriculture to be self sufficient). The big money comes from our really valuable industries, such as technology. Our citizens are extremely well educated, meaning we have lots of great engineers and scientists that can be employed cheaper than in other countries. Technology development is a great money making industry because we only have to do the research once, but we can sell the data hundreds of times for huge sums of money.

Also, the police wear full combat armor and carry automatic weapons.

Frightening economy and 100% tax rate here :D

I don't view the 100% tax rate in NS as tax per se, I view it as a totally socialised economy, in that everything that you purchase goes back into the government coffers. Technically thats 100% tax, but your right to choose what to have for dinner for example is not taken away.

No, a 100% income tax rate does not work but a flat tax rate would make the economy better.

Frightening economy and 100% tax rate here :D

I don't view the 100% tax rate in NS as tax per se, I view it as a totally socialised economy, in that everything that you purchase goes back into the government coffers. Technically thats 100% tax, but your right to choose what to have for dinner for example is not taken away.
i actually have a good economy with 100% tax in my nation, well before i stopped trying because i found out why it was 100% tax

I'll never be willing to pay anything more than 30% at the extreme most. Anything above 50% and I'd start cheating on the taxes or finding some method to foment a rebellion.

Thank god for Echelon.

i actually have a good economy with 100% tax in my nation, well before i stopped trying because i found out why it was 100% tax

Why stop? :p

It happens all the time in NS... could it work in RL?

There would be a whole lot of under the table income

Cooked Books

What would be the motivation to work?

Well, it's like this.

There's a family of 4 people, let's say. And everyone makes $10 on average Some make more, some make less. This money is put into a pot for family use. Now let's suppose that the $10 is no longer enough. So Dad goes out and works, and gets $2 extra. That money is divided up, and everyone gets an extra 0.50. So if you work, you get more money.

Depends on how much of that the government reallocates to the populace and how effectively they do so.

What would be the motivation to work?

Well, it's like this.

There's a family of 4 people, let's say. And everyone makes $10 on average Some make more, some make less. This money is put into a pot for family use. Now let's suppose that the $10 is no longer enough. So Dad goes out and works, and gets $2 extra. That money is divided up, and everyone gets an extra 0.50. So if you work, you get more money.
Except that is not why the family works.
Dad goes to work to get the extra $2 because he feels an obligation to provide another two bucks for his family. Very few are willing to make that kind of sacrifice for someone they never knew.

Essentially the Soviet Union worked like that. Everything you produced was taken by the government, and they gave you what they thought it was worth. In otherwords, the government taxed you at 100% of your output, and then gave you a hand out of what they thought you should get.

I the U.S. started taxing at 100% the economy would go to caca, It would take away the buying power of the people, Capitalism > Communism, To me, Communism is thievery. Besides, if people were taxed at 100% the people would riot, and we would have to turn the country into a police state if someone wanted to enforce this.

Essentially the Soviet Union worked like that. Everything you produced was taken by the government, and they gave you what they thought it was worth. In otherwords, the government taxed you at 100% of your output, and then gave you a hand out of what they thought you should get.

not really. they had a system of wage labor, except that the wages were set by your employer (the state) instead of your employer (some corporation). and while they did have an income tax, it was not 100%. iirc, the average income tax rate was much lower than the average income tax rate in the us is.

not really. they had a system of wage labor, except that the wages were set by your employer (the state) instead of your employer (some corporation). and while they did have an income tax, it was not 100%. iirc, the average income tax rate was much lower than the average income tax rate in the us is.

what, nobody wants to take this on?