NationStates Jolt Archive

Robbing the Cradle of Civilization

The pillaging and looting of Iraq’s treasures continues to this day under the stewardship of the US Administration and its latest puppet regime. When the initial images of security mismanagement were beamed to living rooms around the world, showing the blatant looting of Sumerian antiquities, the US had an answer. Re-open the Iraq National Museum for a one-day photo opportunity to show the world that they had recovered many of the supposed lost treasures. The problem was that none of the items on display were in fact recovered, but instead taken by US forces from a secure vault (where they were placed or safety in the First Gulf War) so that they too could be subject to inevitable looting.

Foreign Collectors are driving this pillage fest in Iraq and Rumsfeld’s decision, to occupy Iraq with a much smaller force than his General’s begged for, is making it easy for them. That and the fact that both the United States and Israel continue to be the only nations refusing to enforce the UNESCO Ban on smuggling antiquities. Ironically, the media’s attempts to draw attention to this situation have only drawn more human sewage interest to the business of smuggling human history for personal profit and gain, and growing the organized crime market of such items.

But surely the Museums of the World would make a moral stand against this crime? Actually there is a long standing “laundering” arrangement between Collectors and the Museums. Collectors will actually pay a Museum to show a stolen piece temporarily. The Museum gets a temporary collection boost and much needed funds. The Collector gets the piece made legitimate, since a Museum has shown it in public. Provided no one is properly screening Museum shows (who would think Museums were in on it?) and crying thief, the Collector now has a legal piece of stolen history. The Museums couldn’t show suspect pieces permanently or accept them as donations, but this is a loophole they’ve been running with.

If there is a role for the United Nations it is in protecting these historic sites from being looted, since it is the lowest of priorities for the Coalition Garrison. I’m not saying the UN should be in there cleaning up all the messes in Iraq made by the Americans and British politicians, but this at least would be a good use of their resources. They would of course have to be careful when using UN Troops from 3rd World Armies or Eastern Europe though, as the corruption amongst these armies was notorious in Former Yugoslavia (Ukrainians and Nigerians were probably among the worst) and in Iraq they would no doubt just be working with the criminals.

http://www.cbc.ca/cbcworldwide/robbingthecradle/

The Bruce

Ooh, ...good points, 'The Bruce,' but allow me to shake your hand on the thread title. That's a really clever and appropriate pun after my own heart.

:)

I'm happy it's happening. At least those treasures will be protected. What bothers me is that the Chinese government is refusing permission to archeologists who want to excavate the areas that will be destroyed by the six gorges damn in 2009. So much history will be lost forever.

I'm a history buff, but hey, I understand that this is a risk to any artifact. Over the ages, war, the elements, and just plain carelessness has destroyed a lot. But I wouldn't despair much. US troops have been on patrol in the ancient streets of Babylon, Ur, and Nineveh, protecting those cities from looters. There's probably a lot there. In fact, some books at the library of Nineveh may still exist.

It was a disastrous loss when the museum in Baghdad was looted and thousands of irreplacable pieces were taken.

Of course....this goes on in more than just Iraq. Greece, for example, is using their hosting of the Olympics to highlight their quest to have the Parthenon Marbles returned to them from England, which got them in 1811 after a lord from Scotland received them from the Ottoman Empire.

Germany looted thousands of relics from all over Europe during WWII.

The Taliban defaced statues that were thousands of years old simply because of their intolerance of a religion that was not their own.

The people of Peru have been screaming for decades that people come in and loot Incan sites.

I would prefer that the relics of an ancient civlization end up in the hands of an enterprising collector to them being destroyed. Yet, what claim does Iraq have to the relics? Yes they were there, but were they produced by the government or people of modern day Iraq? It seems calloused, but what makes there ancient objects the property of Iraq rather than an accident of geography?

I would prefer that the relics of an ancient civlization end up in the hands of an enterprising collector to them being destroyed. Yet, what claim does Iraq have to the relics? Yes they were there, but were they produced by the government or people of modern day Iraq? It seems calloused, but what makes there ancient objects the property of Iraq rather than an accident of geography?

By this logic, the Statue of Liberty can be claimed by any nation that so chooses. Our current government did not have anything to do with it. It was here when they began to run the government.

That's absurd....by this logic Mexico can freely come on in and take all the water from the Mississippi River because we didn't create it.

What makes it property of the country you find the relics in are the borders of that country. We have no right to say that a country can't have its own history merely because we don't believe they won't take care of it.

By this logic, the Statue of Liberty can be claimed by any nation that so chooses. Our current government did not have anything to do with it. It was here when they began to run the government.
The Statue of Liberty is a different matter.
On the first, it would be pretty fugging hard to smuggle out of the country("What's that under your jacket, ma'am?" "Oh, this? Nothing." "It appears to be over 50 yards long, ma'am." "Are you calling me fat?").
On the second, Lady Liberty was completed in the U.S. in the year 1884, over a century after 1787, when the U.S. constitution was signed. That means that the current U.S. government was bequethed with the Statue of Liberty, as opposed to the current U.S. claiming exclusive rights to, say, the relics of any Native American civilizations, because we now own the lands on which they would be found.
On the third, the Statue of Liberty is a current major landmark and cultural symbol. As opposed to a collection of artifacts that are only of major interest to a small amount of people, most iraqis are more concerned with surviving in a country that's been just to the left of the third level of hell for the past many year.
Finally, they could try. Acquiris Quodcumque Rapis after all. Fifty points if you can catch the reference.

That's absurd....by this logic Mexico can freely come on in and take all the water from the Mississippi River because we didn't create it.
Excepting the fact that the Mississippi River provides a vital economic and agricultural aid to the U.S. As opposed to King Whatshisface's Thingy which has been hidden in the sands of the Middle East for the past couple millenia.
Aside from that see points one, two and four from above.
Further, it is incredibly silly to talk about stealing geography. This example would only apply were it proven that the U.S. army intends to collect the Tigris river and remake it in Missouri.
P.S. Keep it a secret (we don't want to start a panic) but thousands of gallons each year are being pumped out of the Mississippi into a Mexican boddy of water. Its codenamed the Gulf of Mexico.

What makes it property of the country you find the relics in are the borders of that country. We have no right to say that a country can't have its own history merely because we don't believe they won't take care of it.
Except that those borders are the same accidents of geography. Also, its not that particular country's history, its the history of those who lived there before. Finally, it isn't so much that they won't take care of it as it is that some will actively destroy it, you have already cited an example of such.

Acquiris Quodcumque Rapis after all. Fifty points if you can catch the reference.
Heh, you acquire that which you sieze; possession is nine-tenths of the law. If that woman got past those gaurds, she'd be the proud new owner of one rusty copper statue.

Heh, you acquire that which you sieze; possession is nine-tenths of the law. If that woman got past those gaurds, she'd be the proud new owner of one rusty copper statue.
Don't think she'd be too happy, though. Think of the hernia she'd get in the process, and you know those massive statues irritate the skin something awful.

Don't think she'd be too happy, though. Think of the hernia she'd get in the process, and you know those massive statues irritate the skin something awful.
Gosh, hard to say. I've never tried to steal one myself. Perhaps next time I visit NYC, I should try it.

It was a disastrous loss when the museum in Baghdad was looted and thousands of irreplacable pieces were taken.

Of course....this goes on in more than just Iraq. Greece, for example, is using their hosting of the Olympics to highlight their quest to have the Parthenon Marbles returned to them from England, which got them in 1811 after a lord from Scotland received them from the Ottoman Empire.

Germany looted thousands of relics from all over Europe during WWII.

The Taliban defaced statues that were thousands of years old simply because of their intolerance of a religion that was not their own.

The people of Peru have been screaming for decades that people come in and loot Incan sites.
Yeah, it's a source of tension around the world. Until the Iraq war, probably the most high profile case was an obelisk. Benito Mussolini's army captured an obelisk in the ruins of Axum, and gave it as a gift to the Pope. It sits in St. Peter's Square today. The Vatican and Ethiopia have been fighting over the obelisk ever since.

Gosh, hard to say. I've never tried to steal one myself. Perhaps next time I visit NYC, I should try it.
Oh, you don't know what you're missing, though it is always best to practice with a basketball goal first. Also, remember that it is unwise to put your trophies up in your front yard immediately after retrieval, you might want to wait a few months and let the disruption die down.