NationStates Jolt Archive

In the past few years I have heard many people in the press and people from outside the USA calling America imperialist. Frankly I don't see it. If anyone out there thinks the USA is an imperial power, please provide evidence.
PS. I apologize if this issue has been dealt with before on this forum.

According to dictionary.com's definition:

im·pe·ri·al·ism Pronunciation Key (m-pîr--lzm)
n.

1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government.




That's a pretty easy definition to translate into the real world. Has not the USA demonstrated thoughout history to have gained political and economic hegemony over other nations? Case examples of this in action being the Marshall Plan, the Phillipines, Chile, Japan....

The Marshall Plan and the postwar Japan policies were self-serving anti-communist plans yes but they also helped the target countries in the process. The US has definitely not established political and economic hegemony over the Europeans and Japan. Sure the Europeans and Japaese know they can't match our military but the relation between US and Japan or Europe is not a imperialist mother country-colony relationship in which the mother country plunders its colonials... heck Japan owns a huge portion of our Savings Bonds and could choose to wreck our economy if it decides to cash in, and we are allowing Japanese cars to outcompete American brands on our home turf! Europeans are not subservient either... they set up the European Union for the explicit purpose of opposing our economic and political supremacy.

The Marshall Plan and the postwar Japan policies were self-serving anti-communist plans yes but they also helped the target countries in the process. The US has definitely not established political and economic hegemony over the Europeans and Japan. Sure the Europeans and Japaese know they can't match our military but the relation between US and Japan or Europe is not a imperialist mother country-colony relationship in which the mother country plunders its colonials... heck Japan owns a huge portion of our Savings Bonds and could choose to wreck our economy if it decides to cash in, and we are allowing Japanese cars to outcompete American brands on our home turf! Europeans are not subservient either... they set up the European Union for the explicit purpose of opposing our economic and political supremacy.

Nevertheless, American culture was exported to these countries- while not fitting the classical definition of imperialism, "coca cola imperialism" remains alive and well. Compare Pre-WW2 Japanese society to that of the modern day and you'll see what I mean regarding America's influence. Also, I would argue that the US does hold political hegemony- without the Marshall Plan, France and Italy would today be Communist, and if a similar situation would arise today, do you really think the US would stand by absently?

It remains a fact though that for the early part of the 20th century, the US did actively seek a colonial empire and even if you don't consider it imperialist now, it certainly was for quite a long time.

It remains a fact though that for the early part of the 20th century, the US did actively seek a colonial empire and even if you don't consider it imperialist now, it certainly was for quite a long time.

From that standpoint, most advanced nations were Imperialist at some point. UK, France, Holland, Spain... But that's in the past. Imperialism really doesn't fly these days.

And I really don't buy into this "cultural imperialism" stuff. With the technology of today, we are moving towards a world culture. Coca-cola is part of that. So is Nintendo & Sony, but I don't hear criticisms of Japan's Imperialism... Most countries will have something to contribute.

And I really don't buy into this "cultural imperialism" stuff. With the technology of today, we are moving towards a world culture. Coca-cola is part of that. So is Nintendo & Sony, but I don't hear criticisms of Japan's Imperialism... Most countries will have something to contribute.

Sure, a world culture based on American values. See my point? Sony was invented by an American, I believe.

In the past few years I have heard many people in the press and people from outside the USA calling America imperialist. Frankly I don't see it. If anyone out there thinks the USA is an imperial power, please provide evidence.
PS. I apologize if this issue has been dealt with before on this forum.

Read Hegemony or Survival, it will explain everything. And plus its one of the best Political Analysation books around.

Sure, a world culture based on American values. See my point? Sony was invented by an American, I believe.

Honestly, I don't see your point at all. Of late I see elements of Japanese culture prevasive in US culture and entertainment, particularly for children these days. So what? The world is evolving. Countries that want to wall themselves off from the world are welcome to, I guess... But we are one world. The diffence between countries is getting far less important every year and may eventually disappear altogether. At some point it will be an outdated concept.

Nevertheless, American culture was exported to these countries- while not fitting the classical definition of imperialism, "coca cola imperialism" remains alive and well. Compare Pre-WW2 Japanese society to that of the modern day and you'll see what I mean regarding America's influence.
Cultural imperialism is a myth... there is no vast conspiracy by the United States to exterminate other nations cultures. Instead its just market forces at work, and more popular products are accepted by everyone around the world. Its been like this throughout history... whatever works better will be more widespread. Cultural export goes both ways too and we Americans don't mind... for example some highly respected brands here in the US are Toyota, Nintendo, Samsung, BMW, etc. Also ethnic foods and cultural features such as Chinese food, Caribbean music, are very much in the mainstream here in the US.

Actually pre-WW2 Japan was crazy for western ideas, if not specifically American ideas. The Japanese ended a lot of aspects of traditional Japanese culture in order to westernize. From the 1870s onward many features of Japanese society was actively modeled after German society. The Japanese government tried to bring Prussian ideas about government, military, and social norms into Japan to modernize the country.

Also, I would argue that the US does hold political hegemony- without the Marshall Plan, France and Italy would today be Communist, and if a similar situation would arise today, do you really think the US would stand by absently?
Of course America (like any nation) will try to undermine a rival that is hostile but that doesnt mean the USA must try to utterly dominate every single nation so they will agree with us in every single instance. France and Italy are examples of nations that are mostly cooperative with the US, but they are not submissive to a so-called American hegemony. France for example has frequently foiled our international policy initiatives.

It remains a fact though that for the early part of the 20th century, the US did actively seek a colonial empire and even if you don't consider it imperialist now, it certainly was for quite a long time.
I agree that the US has always been getting itself into a lot of unwise imperialistic adventures, for example we suported Osama in the 80s or installed a brutal dictator here or there, like Pinochet or Saddam. However I will argue that Marshall Plan and Japan were not stupid malicious imperialist schemes, instead I think Marshall Plan is a sound policy for causing positive change. Not just the USA but all countries try to influence other countries policy for both sides' benefit.

And then theres this.

PNAC (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)

Honestly, I don't see your point at all. Of late I see elements of Japanese culture prevasive in US culture and entertainment, particularly for children these days. So what? The world is evolving. Countries that want to wall themselves off from the world are welcome to, I guess...

I'm just saying that America is modelling the world around its social values, which is quite obvious. Sure, other cultures seep into the western mindset, but without the US doing so originally there wouldnt be that opportunity- where do you think the Japanese got the idea for their anime from? I'm totally avoiding the argument over whether or not this is a good thing, and i'm only saying that the US is from a cultural point of view, imperialist...

And then theres this.

PNAC (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)

Heh, I have to analyse that website for a university assignment. That'll be fun.

I'll have to agree that the idea of imperialist America is largely run-away rhetoric.

America does not attempt to control other nations economically in any subtantially different way than any other country. America maneuvers for more profitable trade, as any nation would.

In recent history, that has not meant control over other nations economies, simply bargaining through trade organizations.

Cultural imperialsm is an even more shaky theory, simply the natural result of business expansion in capitalist states. The US isn't trying to erdicate other cultures, just sell burgers. :rolleyes:

I'm just saying that America is modelling the world around its social values, which is quite obvious. Sure, other cultures seep into the western mindset, but without the US doing so originally there wouldnt be that opportunity- where do you think the Japanese got the idea for their anime from? I'm totally avoiding the argument over whether or not this is a good thing, and i'm only saying that the US is from a cultural point of view, imperialist...

Imperialism means active coordinated plan to impose one country's ways and policies on another, against the target nation's will. The US is doing nothing of the sort... it is simply market forces at work. If you like something, then you try to get it. A lot of people deem certain aspects of American society superior so they adopt it. They also buy American products they like. But they also keep aspects of their own society they like.

Now you are trying to say everything in the world is coming from the US... flattering but totally false. You are being unreasonable in trying to justify your point... sure anime has aspects of western art but it is has unique Japanese origins and deeply influenced by traditional japanese styles. Likewise western art is also influenced by other cultures. No country lives in a bubble! The US didn't "originally" come up with the idea of cultures adopting new ideas. Throughout history cultural exchange has been widespread with the sharing of ideas and materials. There will be cultural exchanges going on all the time as people discover new things about other cultures, no matter how hard you try to prevent it.

Heh, I have to analyse that website for a university assignment. That'll be fun.
And then theres the Democrats version of PNAC:
Progressive Policy Institute (http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?contentid=252144&subsecid=900020&knlgAreaID=450004)
Counterpunch (http://www.counterpunch.org/hand02182004.html)

World leadership

Democrats believe energetic U.S. leadership is integral to shaping a world congenial to our interests and values. World order doesn't emerge spontaneously; it must be organized through collective action by the leading powers, in particular the leading democracies. The main responsibility for global leadership falls on America as first among equals. But our country cannot lead if our leaders will not listen. The surest way to isolate America -- and call into being anti-American coalitions -- is to succumb to the imperial temptation and attempt to impose our will on others. We believe, instead, in renewing our democratic alliances to meet new threats, in progressively enlarging the zone of market democracies by including countries that want to join, and in strengthening and reforming international institutions -- the United Nations, the international financial institutions, the World Trade Organization -- which, for all their obvious flaws, still embody humanity's highest hopes for collective security and cooperative problem-solving.

Cultural imperialism is a myth... there is no vast conspiracy by the United States to exterminate other nations cultures. Instead its just market forces at work, and more popular products are accepted by everyone around the world. Its been like this throughout history... whatever works better will be more widespread. Cultural export goes both ways too and we Americans don't mind... for example some highly respected brands here in the US are Toyota, Nintendo, Samsung, BMW, etc. Also ethnic foods and cultural features such as Chinese food, Caribbean music, are very much in the mainstream here in the US.

OK, i'll grant that works in the west. But not so well in the developing world i'm afraid...

Actually pre-WW2 Japan was crazy for western ideas, if not specifically American ideas. The Japanese ended a lot of aspects of traditional Japanese culture in order to westernize. From the 1870s onward many features of Japanese society was actively modeled after German society. The Japanese government tried to bring Prussian ideas about government, military, and social norms into Japan to modernize the country.

Yes, true enough regarding governmental and military institutions, but post WW2, the changes were much more significant to japanese cuisine, traditions, TV, etc, etc....

Of course America (like any nation) will try to undermine a rival that is hostile but that doesnt mean the USA must try to utterly dominate every single nation so they will agree with us in every single instance. France and Italy are examples of nations that are mostly cooperative with the US, but they are not submissive to a so-called American hegemony. France for example has frequently foiled our international policy initiatives.

But not to the point where France's refusal to cooperate on an issue would result in a direct risk to the USA's long term survival.


I agree that the US has always been getting itself into a lot of unwise imperialistic adventures, for example we suported Osama in the 80s or installed a brutal dictator here or there, like Pinochet or Saddam. However I will argue that Marshall Plan and Japan were not stupid malicious imperialist schemes, instead I think Marshall Plan is a sound policy for causing positive change. Not just the USA but all countries try to influence other countries policy for both sides' benefit.

I never called them stupid, but they did have an imperialist ambition inherent in them and that was my original point.

whats wrong with imperialism? i think that the US should overtake smaller crappier nations to inccrease its GDP and then set up semi-socialist sectors in those conquered areas in order to make money for the government and pay off the national debt.

didn't the us goverment had a plan about worlddomination somewhere?

whats wrong with imperialism? i think that the US should overtake smaller crappier nations to inccrease its GDP and then set up semi-socialist sectors in those conquered areas in order to make money for the government and pay off the national debt.

maybe you guys wouldn't be in a debt if you wouldn't try to take over smaller countries

Now you are trying to say everything in the world is coming from the US... flattering but totally false. You are being unreasonable in trying to justify your point... sure anime has aspects of western art but it is has unique Japanese origins and deeply influenced by traditional japanese styles. Likewise western art is also influenced by other cultures. No country lives in a bubble! There will be cultural exchanges going on all the time as people discover new things about other cultures, no matter how hard you try to prevent it.

That's not really what i'm trying to say. Just think about it for a second, the USA is the most powerful economy the world has seen to date and as a result of history it has come to possess a phenomenal impact on world trade. I'm not trying to say that the USA owns and controls everything and stifles any innovation among other nations- but as a result of their influence, they have changed cultures in some cases drastically, for better or worse. Take it from my point of view as an Australian- Where we used to say "g'day" we say "hi" and "man" "bro" "dude" and "buddy" have almost replaced "mate". It's cultural imperialism and theres no other word for it. I don't think we've forced our culture on the US, i doubt any of you guys (hey, theres another one) call eachother "mate".

Yeah, cultural exchange is a two way street, but the american culture and values are powerful enough to make a lasting change. I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad...but really, I honestly believe that America is culturally imperialist.


Oh, here's another one. The Internet- a totally American idea (though I must admit, one i'm quite partial to :)) and the cornerstone for globalisation. Is cyberspace not an american hegemon as well? Its a medium swamped with american culture by default.

At one point in time almost every country has seemed imperialist.
weren't all axis powers imperialist
The British b4 the USA was even formed
Back in Medival times in order to survive you had to be imerperialist
What im trying to say is that being imperialist isn't neccialy bad for this country
As long as we're benevolent and not act like tyrants then I think we're fine

At one point in time almost every country has seemed imperialist.

Well, to my knowledge San Marino and Andorra never tried invading their neighbours throughout their histories.

OK, i'll grant that works in the west. But not so well in the developing world i'm afraid...
Whats wrong with the developing world trying to adopt the affluent lifestyles of the richer countries? They want to live better, so let them.



Yes, true enough regarding governmental and military institutions, but post WW2, the changes were much more significant to japanese cuisine, traditions, TV, etc, etc....

Then they thought that certain aspects of American culture were pretty good and worth adopting. I won't question their taste and preferences.

But not to the point where France's refusal to cooperate on an issue would result in a direct risk to the USA's long term survival.
Well duh! No country will allow a foreign power to threaten the country's survival. No country will behave any different than the USA in that aspect. The US has reasonable friends in Europe - countries that aren't going to attack the US but also won't be complete pawns and dupes of America.



I never called them stupid, but they did have an imperialist ambition inherent in them and that was my original point.
I agree with you on the point that America has been frequnetly imperialist, overthrowing existing governments and seriously intervening in other countrys affairs. However I dispute that theres any sort of "cultural imperialism" going on, and the Marshall Plan may be considered imperialist in the strictest sense of the word but it certainly does not fit the tradition of malicious imperialism that has been going on in the world for thousands of years.

That's not really what i'm trying to say. Just think about it for a second, the USA is the most powerful economy the world has seen to date and as a result of history it has come to possess a phenomenal impact on world trade. I'm not trying to say that the USA owns and controls everything and stifles any innovation among other nations- but as a result of their influence, they have changed cultures in some cases drastically, for better or worse. Take it from my point of view as an Australian- Where we used to say "g'day" we say "hi" and "man" "bro" "dude" and "buddy" have almost replaced "mate". It's cultural imperialism and theres no other word for it. I don't think we've forced our culture on the US, i doubt any of you guys (hey, theres another one) call eachother "mate".

Imperialism is forcibly imposing one's ideas and policies on another... the US is merely making products that other people like and thus copy... People watch American TV shows and start talking like the American actors but, they could have changed the channel any time or just simply don't talk like the Americans on TV. America is not forcing anyone to do anything..

Also the US didn't "originally" come up with the idea of being a superpower, culturally and economically, and then causing people around to copy their ideas... it is the natural consequence of being powerful and admired. In the past when Rome was the only power in Europe and China was the only power in East Asia everyone, even the people who lived outside the empires, copied their ways.

Yeah, cultural exchange is a two way street, but the american culture and values are powerful enough to make a lasting change. I'm not commenting on whether that's good or bad...but really, I honestly believe that America is culturally imperialist.


Oh, here's another one. The Internet- a totally American idea (though I must admit, one i'm quite partial to :)) and the cornerstone for globalisation. Is cyberspace not an american hegemon as well? Its a medium swamped with american culture by default.
True... the internet has a huge American cultural presence but thats only in Engilsh speaking circles... there are other communities out there you know such as the huge Chinese internet population, also Spanish and Arabic.

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I do not think the US is imperial enough I think the should keep Iraq and Afganstan.

Economic and cultural arguments aside (it's quite difficult to prove real intent with them), the long and short of it is that the United States decided to go into two foreign nations over the past few years, remove their governments, and install new regimes. Bringing democracy to the dark corners of the world? Maybe, but that's beside the point. Remember the definition of the word:

im·pe·ri·al·ism
Pronunciation: im-'pir-E-&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence
(From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

Well, it's hard to argue that there's no political influence present when one country decides who the interim leader of another country is going to be. Before they bombed and invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, I find it doubtful that the United States had as much say in who was going to be running the countries, and what manner of government they would have. That means that these invasions are, in practice, extending the power and dominion of a nation (the United States), because they gave that nation the power and dominion to appoint leaders to these countries. See how that fits the definition of the word?
What other reason might there be for invading Iraq, if not extending power? Finding WMDs? Well if that's the case, the invasion was a failure. Removing a dictator? Good reason, but to accomplish that goal you need to EXTEND your POWER. Did other nations involve themselves in the invasions in question? Yes, but the United States was clearly calling the shots. What was it the big man said
"You're either with us or against us."
Sounds like promoting some indirect control of political life in other areas. After all, now the rest of us have to decide whether we want to be with or against that big ol' superpower. I don't remember if Tony Blair said something similar, but I certainly can't remember many other nations' leaders giving the world quite so clear an ultimatum in the past little while.

That's a pretty easy definition to translate into the real world. Has not the USA demonstrated thoughout history to have gained political and economic hegemony over other nations? Case examples of this in action being the Marshall Plan, the Phillipines, Chile, Japan....

and all those damn military bases we keep just about everywhere. you know, to 'defend our interests'. i really don't see how people fail to notice that the us walks around with a really big stick and says 'hey you other nations, do this because we say so' and everybody pretty much toes the line because they understand the implied 'or else'.

Economic and cultural arguments aside (it's quite difficult to prove real intent with them), the long and short of it is that the United States decided to go into two foreign nations over the past few years, remove their governments, and install new regimes. Bringing democracy to the dark corners of the world? Maybe, but that's beside the point.

yeah, people have this tendency to forget that the entire imperialist project couched itself in terms of 'civilizing the savages' from the very beginning.

Example of one of those "Or else" cases. Remember Cuba everyone? You know, that country that the United States has been putting a chokehold on for the past fourty years? Yeah, well what exactly is the purpose of preventing anyone in your country from trading with a small, economically fragile nation, by threatening them with criminal charges. Furthermore, what is the purpose on setting limits on how much money Cuban Americans can send to their families, and only allowing them to visit once every year (I believe it's now once every three, however)? Well, the purpose is to starve the country so the people will get REALLY pissed off and overthrow Castro.............. fourty years and still waiting. :headbang: Good plan. Imperialism? (See my previously posted definition) Certainly seems that way.
Furthermore, if we all remember that bit about economic imperialism, foreign branches of US companies are also bound by the "Cuban Democracy Act", and with the economic influence the USA has on other countries, this means that a Canadian, who worked and lived in Canada, but does so for a US company, was found guilty of a crime under US law, while he broke no Canadian law. What did this man do to earn a possible life sentence (he was actually given probation, but that doesn't sound as dramatic)? He sold water purification supplies to Cuba. Clean water?! Hell no, you commie bastards, you have to overthrow Castro before you can drink! Imperialism? Certainly seems that way.