NationStates Jolt Archive

And phew... that's a relief she's ok now!! I was about to arrange another trip there to check.

Please do... if you are coming to Åbo, we can have a pint and discuss this. ;)

Speaking of followers of an ideology believing what the want.

How has this war been for oil? Some help, please. Gas prices? Up since the war. Iraq? Still a part of OPEC. Sure helping Iraq's oil industries are important because Saddam didn't really leave it with any sort of infrastructure, which is why we're focusing on it a lot, but we're not exactly shipping oil onto tankers or giving US buyers of Iraq oil 2 cent-a-gallon deals.


You know what. Right now the US is actually trucking in gasoline into Iraq. The american tax payer is footing the bill. That is why Iraqi's are paying 5 cents a gallon for their gas right now.

Freedom of movement, my friend, why DON'T you go to Canada? Youhate America because of a President and tourists? Sheesh. What are you, 14? Europe, if they let you immigrate there, would be a better fit for you among some of these people on this board. Yet, you can;t scream your hatred, you can criticize your president, and you are fre to move....A mojority of the world doesn;t enjoy those freedoms, American. Yet you "hate it". Well i can say no one would notice you leave, so go, or try to change it how you like it. Your free to do that in America too. But please, don;t hate us! the country won' be the same unless everyone likes us! lol

dumb.

Interesting comrade, Canada is widely noted as having more personal freedoms than the mighty us freedom you speak so proudly of, do not fool yourself into thinking that because you are told so your country is the most independant and free nation in the world. There really isnt such a thing, just liberation spread out in different ways amongst those nations that are considered "free". Please dont blast other nations for being different, thats whats gotten the American politicians into so much hot water at this present juncture - the whole world does not (contrary to the belief of the fringe few who seem to do the political thinking) have to be just like this purportedly ideal (and yes it is nothing more than glorified idealism) society that too often is imposed on other nations.

and at the recent journalism conference, i forget its' name, they were cheering Kerry. No bias? come on. pick up a NY Times. there is bias, just as Fox has the ratings now that they took a differnt bias, and talk radio went sop conservative as a backlash. there's something for everyone now. i listen/read both, just so i know my enemies (ideologues of both wings) :gundge:

I never said every country speaks english. Americans just want it that way. We don't really bother to learn other languages.

i never you said that i said its stupid to think americans think everyone speaks english when majority of americans dont think that just cuz a few dumb tourists want people to speak english

Elected by the supreme court.
Yeah, in a 7-2 decision that said the recounts were illegal. Gore tried to only recount his own countries and got screwed. (The 5-4 decision was that it was too late for recounts to take place). That means that two liberals, who on the Supreme Court are usually more ideological (the usual "Swing" justices usually being "conservative") sided with the Republicans on this one. In reality, he was elected by the electoral college. Yeah he lost the popular vote. But thats not how we do things in America.

Think about it...have you seen any negative coverage of the US government on the news lately?
Watch the convention?

I blasted the individual and invited him to go there....said nothing whatsoever about any other nation. y'all do your thin, we're going to ours, i agree with what you said....confused how you got i was blasting any other countries. Besides, I like Canada a lot. Love Toronto. Canadian women are a blast......

i never you said that i said its stupid to think americans think everyone speaks english when majority of americans dont think that just cuz a few dumb tourists want people to speak english


Sorry I put your post and another together. My mistake.

Because of the British Empire and now due to American consuming by far the most produced goods in the world? just wondering. :mp5:

Please do... if you are coming to Åbo, we can have a pint and discuss this. ;)

I was there in June. Excellant pizza restaurant near the river called Dennis I think, do you know it?

You guys have been too kind... (or us Euros have hijacked this thread)... maybe a "Why Europeans hate other Europeans" -thread would be in order next.

I was there in June. Excellant pizza restaurant near the river called Dennis I think, do you know it?

It's an institute. :)

yes i think euros have hijacked this thread lol

I am american. I don't hate any European country or its people. Although I wasn't treated very nicely in France, my experience there was very limited and so I wouldn't attempt to generalize.

Most of the americans who say they hate European countries probably couldn't even point to the country they hate on a map. They hear that the president changed the name of french fries to freedom fries because he was mad that the French wouldn't approve his war-for-oil. How immensely childish is that? And how blindly the Bush supporters fall into lock-step.

I think the Europeans have good reason to hate American foreign policy. Heck, even I hate our foreign policy at the moment. If I decide to travel outside the US I will probably claim I am Canadian.

Im pretty sure claiming that you are canadian (i have travelled and seen a lot of american tourists with canadian flags emblazoned on their packs or garb) will not solve any problems. In particular if you are one of the americans, who as i seen, joke about the fact that they are ripping of the identity of a country that they quite obviously have no respect for if their only desire or relevant use for such nation is to claim the benefits that have come from years instilling a national sense of humble nature and of respect for people that constantly insult us by doing things thus. Try to be happy about who you are, no matter where you are from, good people come from all countries.

You guys have been too kind... (or us Euros have hijacked this thread)... maybe a "Why Europeans hate other Europeans" -thread would be in order next.

Go ahead and start one. :sniper:

Because of the British Empire and now due to American consuming by far the most produced goods in the world? just wondering. :mp5:


I have heard that said before. I do not know if it is true though.

I don't think Americans hate Europeans. hell, the people i know love the Brits, and most other Europeans, and others are indifferent to most of Europe.

except the lousy french, of course.

Speaking of followers of an ideology believing what the want.

How has this war been for oil? Some help, please. Gas prices? Up since the war. Iraq? Still a part of OPEC. Sure helping Iraq's oil industries are important because Saddam didn't really leave it with any sort of infrastructure, which is why we're focusing on it a lot, but we're not exactly shipping oil onto tankers or giving US buyers of Iraq oil 2 cent-a-gallon deals.

how many tankers of oil did the US send from the gulf to US refineries in Texas when they seized the gulf again....

perhaps this statement needs revision, shipping back the oil that was taken is a small reparation indeed. Also, what happened to the Iraqi investments that were frozen in the US and forgotten about?

americans dont hate europeans even though im sure some of us do just like alota euros hate americans but alot of them like us i dont really like france or germany or russia for that matter but i love ireland,britain,netherlands and alot more

It's an institute. :)

:) small world (and such good pizza there)!! right, am off to sleep now... have to get up in 6 hours :rolleyes: . bye everyone, say lots of controversial stuff for me to read tomorrow!!

or while on the topic of europeans, excluding northern europe and england, are western european men really feminine looking and acting? seems kinda so to me. mayb that's why some europeans don;t like americans, we have too much testosterone. we're "cowboys", or whatever. we like to blow up stuff. itinerant question of a bored mind.

i think its stupid when europeans or whoever say americans are fat when majority of us are athletic we have some of the best athletes in the world i go jogging 5 miles a day i play baseball everyday im sure alota euros are fat too so why are they makin fun of us?

The very idea that you can even measure the 'amount' of freedom one nation has in contrast to that of another is simply obtuse. By what scale shall we judge, does the freedom to bear arms outweigh the freedom to vote? Which freedom is most important?
You claim that Canada has more 'rights', what are these rights? People have whatever rights they force their governments to give them, and no country can claim the right to total representation, noone here in the states gets to allocate the money that they pay for taxes, we may get to influence what they are spent on, but our own constitution limits the influence that the populace has on government, although most of those protections have been significantly eroded through the course of time.
As an American, and a vetran to boot, I just wish to say that most Americans, and I'm sure most people of all nationalities, respect their fellow citizens of earth, even if we don't understand or share the same opinions, you have to respect that they try the best that they can. The idea that one nation 'owes' to another is also bogus. In another time the US may have 'helped' to liberate France, although it surely could not have done so alone, and France may have 'aided' the US at the battle of Lexington, but by now the face of most nations has changed significantly. Every election the face of government changes, every two years in the US the house of Representatives changes, and many other stimuli change the way things work, so stop worring about the past, or our differences, and start thinking that things are a lot better now then they were before, and hopefully tommorrow they will be better than today.

Thank you for hearing, reading, my rant, good day

:)

or while on the topic of europeans, excluding northern europe and england, are western european men really feminine looking and acting? seems kinda so to me. mayb that's why some europeans don;t like americans, we have too much testosterone. we're "cowboys", or whatever. we like to blow up stuff. itinerant question of a bored mind.

Or perhaps it is the fact that when they meet you you say such things that would make you seem rather intollerant and unintelligent. If on such ocassion you were one of the only americans they had met, perhaps that might taint their opinions (quite unfortunate as it is) of all americans.

what are you talking about french didnt help us at lexington.....lexington was one of the first battles of the american revolution and americans were alone then

how many tankers of oil did the US send from the gulf to US refineries in Texas when they seized the gulf again....

perhaps this statement needs revision, shipping back the oil that was taken is a small reparation indeed. Also, what happened to the Iraqi investments that were frozen in the US and forgotten about?
I believe they're in limbo until after the Saddam's trial. I don't know how many tankers of oil the US sent back. But as someone said, we're footing the bill for Iraqi's to have cheap oil now.

and we do have the best athletes, but statistically, we americans are a lot fatter, too. europeans eat smaller portions and generally eat healthier than us. frankly, i think i might add fat people to the french as far as people i don;t like. lol. but seriously, americans have a much less overall healthy diet than europeans, statistically. we also have a more athletically centered culture, thus the numerous non professional athletes. i am a competetive martial artist and powerlifter, and by national standards of obesity, i am grossly obese (230 at 5'11), though i only have 8% body fat. so that fudges the stats a lot. but sports don;t have the same participation or interest in Europe that it does here. cause so many frenchman are girly men. lol

Oops, Yorktown, sorry about that
:eek:

The very idea that you can even measure the 'amount' of freedom one nation has in contrast to that of another is simply obtuse. By what scale shall we judge, does the freedom to bear arms outweigh the freedom to vote? Which freedom is most important?
You claim that Canada has more 'rights', what are these rights? People have whatever rights they force their governments to give them, and no country can claim the right to total representation, noone here in the states gets to allocate the money that they pay for taxes, we may get to influence what they are spent on, but our own constitution limits the influence that the populace has on government, although most of those protections have been significantly eroded through the course of time.
As an American, and a vetran to boot, I just wish to say that most Americans, and I'm sure most people of all nationalities, respect their fellow citizens of earth, even if we don't understand or share the same opinions, you have to respect that they try the best that they can. The idea that one nation 'owes' to another is also bogus. In another time the US may have 'helped' to liberate France, although it surely could not have done so alone, and France may have 'aided' the US at the battle of Lexington, but by now the face of most nations has changed significantly. Every election the face of government changes, every two years in the US the house of Representatives changes, and many other stimuli change the way things work, so stop worring about the past, or our differences, and start thinking that things are a lot better now then they were before, and hopefully tommorrow they will be better than today.

Thank you for hearing, reading, my rant, good day

:)

On several of these points i couldnt agree more, and i think in a round-a-bout way we are speaking of the same thing, i was trying to make a point and i think that you have done just the same. Read back to a few of my other quotes to get an idea of what i am trying to relate if you so wish. I think youll see that we are not so different in what we are saying you and I.

and we do have the best athletes, but statistically, we americans are a lot fatter, too. europeans eat smaller portions and generally eat healthier than us. frankly, i think i might add fat people to the french as far as people i don;t like. lol. but seriously, americans have a much less overall healthy diet than europeans, statistically. we also have a more athletically centered culture, thus the numerous non professional athletes. i am a competetive martial artist and powerlifter, and by national standards of obesity, i am grossly obese (230 at 5'11), though i only have 8% body fat. so that fudges the stats a lot. but sports don;t have the same participation or interest in Europe that it does here. cause so many frenchman are girly men. lol

man anti hittin french below the belt but i like it lol i also do martial arts and i do some body building to keep in shape

i'm sooooo dumb.

lol.

still a lot of girly men in europe, lol.

Hey, Europeans, we came and saved your butts from tyrranical fascism and senseless repression and greed twice, already, ...not to mention a mad dictoator promoting an adventurist New World Order, which was a big deal

(more quietly,)

Umm, if we fall to tyrranical fasism and senseless repression and otherwise get too crazy over here, I don't suppose you could return the favour?

We're working on it, over here.

I know it's a real bummer when someone you look up to starts acting like a total *asshole,* but hopefully we'll be dusting off our ideals and hype and taking them seriously, again. Real soon.

Sorry about the mess. Bad management.

I believe they're in limbo until after the Saddam's trial. I don't know how many tankers of oil the US sent back. But as someone said, we're footing the bill for Iraqi's to have cheap oil now.


Well that answers that, after all we are talking about billions of dollars here that witheld are potentially keeping millions of formerly successful iraqis (now liberated) increasingly poverty stricken. I dont think that this should be overlooked.

french didnt even help much we had already won the war cornwallis was surrounded at yorktown even though he could escape through the sea if french hadnt been there we woulda still won

goin to eat dinner see yall later

Well that answers that, after all we are talking about billions of dollars here that witheld are potentially keeping millions of formerly successful iraqis (now liberated) increasingly poverty stricken. I dont think that this should be overlooked.
How many of these people have ties to Saddam Hussein or terrorist agencies? It was hard to be successful in Hussein-era Iraq without having at least some ties to the dictator.

Hey, Europeans, we came and saved your butts from tyrranical fascism and senseless repression and greed twice, already, ...not to mention a mad dictoator promoting an adventurist New World Order, which was a big deal

(more quietly,)

Umm, if we fall to tyrranical fasism and senseless repression and otherwise get too crazy over here, I don't suppose you could return the favour?

We're working on it, over here.

I know it's a real bummer when someone you look up to starts acting like a total *asshole,* but hopefully we'll be dusting off our ideals and hype and taking them seriously, again. Real soon.

Sorry about the mess. Bad management.

Hehehehe! Captivating start and good finish! :)

STEADY DEGENERATION OF MY COMMENTARY directly relating to the number of beers i have consumed while trying to finish up some work, i am retreating from these board. see Euros? we don't dislike you, in fact we like you. we just aren't going to do what you say.

we actually like you unless you are french, fat, or girly men that is. lol

How many of these people have ties to Saddam Hussein or terrorist agencies? It was hard to be successful in Hussein-era Iraq without having at least some ties to the dictator.


And how many of the oil companies that are trucking and shipping crued and refined oil have ties to halliburton dick cheny bush and the rest? The sad thing is that this statement goes both ways. Thats whats truly sad about this war, what the bush administration is doing is not even being done for their country, it is for themselves and for their cronies up on capital, and yet employs the use of the very people they are essentially f-ing over to accomplish these tasks. :(

Ah, Burecia, Lafayette was a *hero* to our founding fathers, French aid *did* help us win the Revolution, and anything else is serious revisionism.

The Founding Fathers seem to have mentioned it a few times.

Americans, Europeans don't hate you. We don't burn your flag or destroy (or boycott) your products, which is more than can be said about recent American attitudes to France.

They did not do so out of a desire to help the colonists...they did so to get at the British and weaken them because they too had colonies in America. By running the british out, THEY would be the dominant power here. They tried to control the negotiations at the treaty of Paris talks, but Franklin outsmarted them. ;)
Wow, your arguments are getting weaker and weaker. When was the last time any country helped another for a reason besides national interest? Do you think Britain and Poland are supporting you in Iraq out of the goodness of their hearts?

Think about that before you dismiss French assistance in your patriotic struggle in the 18th century.

And how many of the oil companies that are trucking and shipping crued and refined oil have ties to halliburton dick cheny bush and the rest?
Dick Cheney was the CEO of Haliburton in the past. He's sold his stock. Obviously he still knows people in the company, however, Iraq is hardly something that most of these countries are reaping huge profits off of.

but the actual french assistance level in the revolution was equitable to the american presence in WW1. worth noting, but nothing to get overly excited about. how many frenchman died in the war?

nuff said. statue they gave us was pretty cool, though.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I love Europe! I don't know if I'll necessarily move there when I get older, but it's definitely a possibility, and I completely intend to spend a while touring once I finish high school. France is the best by the way!

(yes, I'm American and I know I'm doing the opposite of the intent of this thread)

EDIT: Oh and if the USA is supposed to hate France so much why do we have statues of Joan of Arc all over the place? Always wondered that.

STEADY DEGENERATION OF MY COMMENTARY directly relating to the number of beers i have consumed while trying to finish up some work, i am retreating from these board. see Euros? we don't dislike you, in fact we like you. we just aren't going to do what you say.

we actually like you unless you are french, fat, or girly men that is. lol


why all this negative commentation towards the french

shouldnt you embrace the fact that they stood up for their values?

yes they are corrupt in some of their reasons, but so are the british politicians, the american, the canadian, and well all others as well...?

HAHAHA I like the French and the girly men... well, actually, they piss me off because they're always gay, and so they don't like me back, me being female... uh, yeah. Anyway... I'll shut up now...

Dick Cheney was the CEO of Haliburton in the past. He's sold his stock. Obviously he still knows people in the company, however, Iraq is hardly something that most of these countries are reaping huge profits off of.


not sure if i will rely on that which the press releases have told me, sometimes you dont have to own stock to benefit - look into who funds these peoples campaigns...

the same thing happened in canada to a lesser extent with Paul Martin and his shipping Co., or with Cretin (no spelling error) and his golf course. They might not have owned them anymore, but kickbacks still payout big on the side. I am not at all opposed to the belief that these very men are not still as greedy as they once were. Not in the least. The fat gets saltier as the pigs get bigger my friend.

They stood up for their economic interests in iraq. simple minded fools think they stood up for their principles, because they happened to try to stand up to the US. That's all. pretty simple to impress some, i guess.

They stood up for their economic interests in iraq. simple minded fools think they stood up for their principles, because they happened to try to stand up to the US. That's all. pretty simple to impress some, i guess.

As did the American politicians involved, as did the British Pol., as did the Canadians (even though we "weren't offficially involved") trust me the fact that this is more about money than principles has not passed me by. Just saying that because one country does not follow another gives no reason to hate them, they all look out for themselves at the top.

What im trying to say is that one is no better than the other, so lets not get to pointing fingers just yet.

I should note to any French people that while I shed no tears for Saddam, (he was a US-installed dictator in the first place, that's why we could turn off most of his air force with the flip of a switch in 'Gulf War I' and he had to send his obsolete MiGs to sovereign Iranian territory that the Iranians couldn't control, but still would have been out of bounds to America, etc, etc. )

...Ahem. I should note to any French people listening, that a *lot* of people here thought that France was right to oppose the US attacking Iraq that year, and most of the people in *America* who voted for it were lied to about weapons of mass destruction.

If it hadn't been for that, no one would have been so irresponsible as to invade. It's just what the terrorists wanted.

Any other excuses are just a matter of face and an election.

Some of us really actually do know the score, here. I didn't stop calling any food 'French,' anyway. (did you actually know our 'French Toast' was actually called 'German Toast,' till one war or the other? It's a food thing. *shrug.*)

Problem is, everyone's in one of those states of mind where the American tradition of dissent and accountability and the free press is being squashed by a lot of people who insist that anyone who points out we were *actually wrong, guys, by our own justifications,* ...may as well be feeding the masses of 'Al-Qaeda' fighters in Iraq a nice stack of...

French toast.


It's really convenient, though, for some types. Anyone who's against enforced Christianity in government, a health care system that only serves number-pushing insurance company fat cats, tax cuts for the rich, cuts in our schools and roads to pay for a foreign-war family grudge match that kills our young people cause there was no contingency plan for the Iraqis not throwing us triumphal tickertape parades...

Well, they can call us traitors, too.

Listen to the tone in their voice when they say 'liberals'

They learned that from a guy messed up on pills who has a serious complex about certain things...

I should note to any French people that while I shed no tears for Saddam, (he was a US-installed dictator in the first place, that's why we could turn off most of his air force with the flip of a switch in 'Gulf War I' and he had to send his obsolete MiGs to sovereign Iranian territory that the Iranians couldn't control, but still would have been out of bounds to America, etc, etc. )

...Ahem. I should note to any French people listening, that a *lot* of people here thought that France was right to oppose the US attacking Iraq that year, and most of the people in *America* who voted for it were lied to about weapons of mass destruction.

If it hadn't been for that, no one would have been so irresponsible as to invade. It's just what the terrorists wanted.

Any other excuses are just a matter of face and an election.

Some of us really actually do know the score, here. I didn't stop calling any food 'French,' anyway. (did you actually know our 'French Toast' was actually called 'German Toast,' till one war or the other? It's a food thing. *shrug.*)

Problem is, everyone's in one of those states of mind where the American tradition of dissent and accountability and the free press is being squashed by a lot of people who insist that anyone who points out we were *actually wrong, guys, by our own justifications,* ...may as well be feeding the masses of 'Al-Qaeda' fighters in Iraq a nice stack of...

French toast.


It's really convenient, though, for some types. Anyone who's against enforced Christianity in government, a health care system that only serves number-pushing insurance company fat cats, tax cuts for the rich, cuts in our schools and roads to pay for a foreign-war family grudge match that kills our young people cause there was no contingency plan for the Iraqis not throwing us triumphal tickertape parades...

Well, they can call us traitors, too.

Listen to the tone in their voice when they say 'liberals'

They learned that from a guy messed up on pills who has a serious complex about certain things...


All i can say is thank you for having the moxy to say it. (assuming that is that you are an american yourself - as i do not believe that this has as much clout coming from anywhere else.

By the way, when I say 'invading Iraq is just what the terrorists wanted,'

Look at the news, and all that.

Anyone following international news and worried about Fundamentalism of all kinds could see that everyone and their *brother* who's up to no good around there had, and has, an interest in destabilizing Iraq, which, as bad as Saddam was, was only held together against faction-fighting by the status quo.

That's why the *smart* people, not screaming 'Danger Will Robinson' over obsolete and already-corrected intelligence, thought a war, particularly, a unilateral US invasion,

Was a dumb idea.

Now look at it.

By the way, when I say 'invading Iraq is just what the terrorists wanted,'

Look at the news, and all that.

Anyone following international news and worried about Fundamentalism of all kinds could see that everyone and their *brother* who's up to no good around there had, and has, an interest in destabilizing Iraq, which, as bad as Saddam was, was only held together against faction-fighting by the status quo.

That's why the *smart* people, not screaming 'Danger Will Robinson' over obsolete and already-corrected intelligence, thought a war, particularly, a unilateral US invasion,

Was a dumb idea.

Now look at it.

heh

I didnt think that was a secret, but then again I have noticed that the news as reported on US networks has contained very different stories to tell than the ones I have seen watching Canadian TV and reading Canadian press.

of course i suppose that should not be considered a secret either
not that Canadian media isnt biased, we got stories that backed up our own country in its un-supportive role, Americans got stories that, until the lid was blown open, supported their stance and obvious activity. Not exactly a new concept in media manipulation.

not sure if i will rely on that which the press releases have told me, sometimes you dont have to own stock to benefit - look into who funds these peoples campaigns...


True. But then the charge could be leveled at any company which recieved a post-Iraq contract that it was about trying to get or shore up support for the election. Its certainly possible, but the possibility dosen't make it true.

(he was a US-installed dictator...
No he wasn't, get your facts straight, he came to power through a coup, he wasn't put there by Americans.

Hey, I've been screaming about ever-tightening and consolidating corporate control of the media since I was a punk rocker in the 80s.

No one listened. Since then we went down from about twenty companies owning ninety-eight percent of the media here to about four owning about ninety.

Something like that. The punks are still screaming about it. Just with less of a notion the average American is ever going to care.

how many frenchman died in the war?

.

A few million, together with the Germans and Brits, they had the most deads. I think it were only 100.000 US in a war that even was not theirs. in the long run, Germany would have lost against the production of the commonwealth and French empire too. But yeah, the uS shortened the war with a few months, but never forget that it was fought on French and Belgian soil.

No he wasn't, get your facts straight, he came to power through a coup, he wasn't put there by Americans.

Youre right, not by Americans or their politicians directly, but do not discount the role that american politicians had in that little bit of ugliness, nor the fact that rumsfeld was involved in arming Saddam to the teeth and supplied him with the technology to build and test chemical weapons that would later be used to slaughter the kurdish.

As someone NOT! from America(Ireland in fact) I have to point out how childish and blatently discriminate some people on this forum here are, considering a good lot of Americans,hmm how can I put this.....ORIGINATE IN EUROPE.Btw if France is doing such a bad job, then how come Bush isn't ther president? Ireland is a neutral country and Bush has desicrated that right by entering this country with his armed guard and nuclear bomb guy just so Bertie Ahern(Prime minister) can lick his shoes and offer him some airports to re-fuel his death squadrons. So, any American voter who reads this, please think twice about voting for such a small man!

If Europe is such a "crap-hole" then how come we have a democracy governed by Sane people with the European Union doing more to help th Planet, which Americans live on too, than America has basically ecer done. :headbang:

I don't hate Europe. I do resent their foreign policy a bit, though. Instead of supporting democracy and freedom in the world, and opposing dictators (not asking you to go to war here), they seem to do whatever can get them a buck or, worse, weaken America relative to Europe. One example is this bullshit scandal the French and Germans apparently had in Iraq. More than that, they'll send weapons to fucking anyone. Right now they're trying to scrap their self-imposed ban on selling weapons to China, even though they know damn well that those weapons are for invading Taiwan, and possibly going to war against America (and allies) in the process. Meanwhile, the U.S. witholds arms from most such nations and backs up Taiwan militarily, though we do it quietly to keep China happy (we're not perfect ourselves). Europe might as well just stop pretending entirely and play the Russian way: guns for any regime with the cash, no questions asked.
The US government is guilty of all these misdemeanors. You say that European governments support dictatorships - the dictatorships that America installed!

About selling weapons to anyone with cash... the US has been there done that. Reagan's government armed Iran, the Contras and Al-Qaeda. We are now paying the price for that short-sighted policy.

I don't agree with selling arms to countries like China, who have intentions to invade other countries. But the US has been supporting Israel for 50 years. That country has fought Syria, Egypt, and now attacks Lebanon every week. Not to mention Palestine.

I cant belive some of the posts on here!!! Just because The weapon Inspectors didnt find any weapons of mass destruction does not mean that they were not in the process of making them. So cut the President some slack and forget the French, who ever said we needed there help in Iraq any way. And if president Bush had not respond to 9/11 the way he did America would have seen more attacks like 9/11!!! SO LAY OFF THE PRESIDENT!! and if you dont like america imigrate to somewhere else!!!

Hey, I've been screaming about ever-tightening and consolidating corporate control of the media since I was a punk rocker in the 80s.

No one listened. Since then we went down from about twenty companies owning ninety-eight percent of the media here to about four owning about ninety.

Something like that. The punks are still screaming about it. Just with less of a notion the average American is ever going to care.

LMAO... you too?
this trend:

Yankee soldier
He wanna shoot some skag
He met it in Cambodia
But now he can't afford a bag

Yankee dollar talk
To the dictators of the world
In fact it's giving orders
An' they can't afford to miss a word

I'm so bored with the U...S...A...
But what can I do?

Yankee detectives
Are always on the TV
'Cos killers in America
Work seven days a week

Never mind the stars and stripes
Let's print the Watergate Tapes
I'll salute the New Wave
And I hope nobody escapes

I'm so bored with the U...S...A...
But what can I do?

Move up Starsky
For the C.I.A.
Suck on Kojak
For the USA

When this Clash song came out I was 14. Great to pogo along to... but my feelings sure have changed since that... ;)

I cant belive some of the posts on here!!! Just because The weapon Inspectors didnt find any weapons of mass destruction does not mean that they were not in the process of making them. So cut the President some slack and forget the French, who ever said we needed there help in Iraq any way. And if president Bush had not respond to 9/11 the way he did America would have seen more attacks like 9/11!!! SO LAY OFF THE PRESIDENT!! and if you dont like america imigrate to somewhere else!!!


This statement is only alarming if you truly believe in it soldier.

Bunny and Kinsella (BTW a big fan of WP if thats the namesake)

fans of Bad Religion also? Brilliant new album, cant believe them guys are still rockin, seen them last year at Mac hall in Calgary and many years ago at T-Bird here in Van, truly genius.

Steppenwolf had a song back in the sixties too

"Monster"

you should look it up

on that note GTG people

it was great talking, no hard feelings to those whom i have crossed during this conversation.

Learn To Love, Live to Learn ;)

Youre right, not by Americans or their politicians directly, but do not discount the role that american politicians had in that little bit of ugliness, nor the fact that rumsfeld was involved in arming Saddam to the teeth and supplied him with the technology to build and test chemical weapons that would later be used to slaughter the kurdish.
No he didn't, some of it was supplied by American private companies and those exports were later blocked by the Reagan administration, the vast majority of armed help came from two countries, the USSR and France. I'm not going to deny that the USA and American companies had any role in arming Saddam or even helping him build WMD, however, people commonly make a huge deal of the USA's relatively small contribution.

If you can't spell 'emigrate,' don't tell me where to go, sport.

Just cause you don't *know* I don't have a crack lab in my basement,
Or that you don't *know* demons might not fly out my left tit,

Doesn't mean you can use lethal force 'just in case.'

That's not America.

A few million, together with the Germans and Brits, they had the most deads. I think it were only 100.000 US in a war that even was not theirs. in the long run, Germany would have lost against the production of the commonwealth and French empire too. But yeah, the uS shortened the war with a few months, but never forget that it was fought on French and Belgian soil.
If you reread the thread, you will notice that this was discussing the Revolutionary War in America, not France and Belgium.

By the way, Kwang, I was alive and watching the *news* when we armed Saddam. Back then the Reagan administration was telling us we had to arm those 'West-friendly Sunnis' against the 'maniacal terrorist Shi'ites.'

Funny how lines change.

*koff.* Times. Times change. *That's what I meant.

If you reread the thread, you will notice that this was discussing the Revolutionary War in America, not France and Belgium.

If You truly reread the thread, You'd notice I was asking why Americans hate EU(ropeans)

Wasn't Bin Laden trained by your CIA? Maybe you should rename yourselves to the USI... United States of Irony

Very true, Bunnyducks. I was kinda busy arguing with people who 'hate' Europeans. I think it's probably the same reason anyone who disagrees with them lucidly is a 'liberal elitist,' :)

Shouldn't there be a thread where Americans could voice out how much they hate EU(ropeans)? Yes there should, and now is! Cos afterall, we all know how creepy bunch of pussies all the Euros are, no matter from which of the 25 countries of the EU they come from. In this thread - let's boldly name it "To Americans" - one could treat the whole continent as it was one big France. Don't hold back, let us have it.

Don't forget to mention how many times you have saved our asses, how much we would suffer if you took McDonalds away from us, and how we envy the US.

The rule is pretty much the same as in Cherion's "To non-Americans" thread: What is it (specifically) that you hate about The EU(ropeans). I would hope in this thread non-Americans could just shut up and observe. Me, I'm gonna open up a beer and lean back. Let it flame!

I know this is a little slow in coming as that quote up there was posted 200 some replies ago, but the original reason for this thread really appalled me! Most of all, it just astounds me how a person can be biased against an entire CONTINENT of countries. Don't forget buddy, the vast majority of people living in our country can trace their ancestry back to EUROPE! Without their existence, we wouldn't BE HERE! Perhaps that thought never occurred to the author of the first post on this thread. I do not support blind hatred towards Americans from Europeans either. For those of you Europeans who judge us by the politicians we have running our country, here's something to think about: Less than half of our eligible voters voted in the last presidential election. Of those LESS THAN HALF voters, the majority of them DID vote for Al Gore! Now that last statistic can be endlessly argued I know, but think about it. Less than 25% of our registered voters wanted Bush in office. As for our overconsuming tendencies, yes that's a problem. We have lots of obese people, and lots of stupid, greedy people who go bankrupt just like that. Problems? Yes... Then of course all countries have certain social and political problems that other countries are quick to recognize and point out. Basically the point I want to make here is that being biased against a whole continent, country, race, etc. is just simply narrowminded and ignorant. Thank you!

By the way, Kwang, I was alive and watching the *news* when we armed Saddam. Back then the Reagan administration was telling us we had to arm those 'West-friendly Sunnis' against the 'maniacal terrorist Shi'ites.'

Funny how lines change.

*koff.* Times. Times change. *That's what I meant.
This was posted a while back when the server was still messy. The sources are at the bottom of the graph, you can follow them if you want.

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/common/kicks/saddamgraph.gif

Since we can't post pics anymore, you have to follow the address. It gives you the idea, the USA only accounted for 1% of Iraqi weapons sales.

The one thing that I don't like about Western Europe is that now that the Soviet Union is gone they have turned on us.

I have a really dislike, hates a little to strong of a world, for some of the Nations of 'Old Europe'.
No, we haven't turned against you. Last time I checked the EU was America's biggest trading partner.

Are you actually Donald Rumsfeld?

I know this is a little slow in coming as that quote up there was posted 200 some replies ago, but the original reason for this thread really appalled me! Most of all, it just astounds me how a person can be biased against an entire CONTINENT of countries. Don't forget buddy, the vast majority of people living in our country can trace their ancestry back to EUROPE! Without their existence, we wouldn't BE HERE! Perhaps that thought never occurred to the author of the first post on this thread. I do not support blind hatred towards Americans from Europeans either. For those of you Europeans who judge us by the politicians we have running our country, here's something to think about: Less than half of our eligible voters voted in the last presidential election. Of those LESS THAN HALF voters, the majority of them DID vote for Al Gore! Now that last statistic can be endlessly argued I know, but think about it. Less than 25% of our registered voters wanted Bush in office. As for our overconsuming tendencies, yes that's a problem. We have lots of obese people, and lots of stupid, greedy people who go bankrupt just like that. Problems? Yes... Then of course all countries have certain social and political problems that other countries are quick to recognize and point out. Basically the point I want to make here is that being biased against a whole continent, country, race, etc. is just simply narrowminded and ignorant. Thank you!

Well, that thought did occur to the author of the first post of this thread. That's why the author made the thread. I must congratulate you though TaR, you were the first to really make an issue out of it with a post more than 2 sentences. ;)

Wasn't Bin Laden trained by your CIA? Maybe you should rename yourselves to the USI... United States of Irony
No he wasn't, Bin Laden hated the USA back in the 70's and 80's to. The closest the USA may have come to arming and aiding Bin Laden would have been indirect distribution of weapons to him via Afghani resistance.

What about the fact that a substantial number of the dictators over the last 20 years have been put into power by the USA. Land of the Free? uh huh...

No he wasn't, Bin Laden hated the USA back in the 70's and 80's to. The closest the USA may have come to arming and aiding Bin Laden would have been indirect distribution of weapons to him via Afghani resistance.
Nope you're wrong there, he and his men were directly trained by the CIA to fight against Americas enemies... can't remember who, I think it involved Russia though...

Nope you're wrong there, he and his men were directly trained by the CIA to fight against Americas enemies... can't remember who, I think it involved Russia though...
Yes, we did aid the rebels vs the USSR when they invaded. Some others may have been trained by the CIA, but it Bin Laden wasn't. This article explains it well :

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C98115%2C00.html

Now, of course the endless whines about how Fox News is biased will come in, and if people decide to disregard the article just because of that, at least look at the quotes "

“We were never, at any time, friends of the Americans. We knew that the Americans supported the Jews in Palestine and that they are our enemies.”

Basically the resisitance vs the Soviets was of two different forms united by the common enemy, one was of foreign Arabs flooding in, this was supported mostly by Saudi Arabia and other rich oil kingdoms, the other was one supported and funded by the USA. Of course they overlapped at times, but its important to note that there was this separation, Bin Laden fell into the first group.

So.... what about those Canadians and Mexicans on our continent of North America..? We talked about the countries in Europe. Now countries in North America.

People talk about European patriotism... kinda confused by that... so is there any such thing as North American patriotism?

Lemme see... I may be being a bit radical but.. I say there be multiple world organizations.. the UN (Europe) and NATO (N. America). And all of those other continents can make there own organizations. They can be called CU's (Continental Unions) So each continent speaks to the world in as one voice. Each country speaking to the world is just to darn difficut.

Ok I was just rambling.. any thoughts?

What about the fact that a substantial number of the dictators over the last 20 years have been put into power by the USA. Land of the Free? uh huh...


WOOOOOPS, 111-0 for you :D

So.... what about those Canadians and Mexicans on our continent of North America..? We talked about the countries in Europe. Now countries in North America.

People talk about European patriotism... kinda confused by that... so is there any such thing as North American patriotism?

Lemme see... I may be being a bit radical but.. I say there be multiple world organizations.. the UN (Europe) and NATO (N. America). And all of those other continents can make there own organizations. They can be called CU's (Continental Unions) So each continent speaks to the world in as one voice. Each country speaking to the world is just to darn difficut.

Ok I was just rambling.. any thoughts?

If you are saying UN is European organization, I'd say you are rambling. If anything, it's 3rd world organization.... and it is suposed to be the world forum.

If you are saying UN is European organization, I'd say you are rambling. If anything, it's 3rd world organization.... and it is suposed to be the world forum.

Oh no... I just mean they can keep that title for themselves. Each continent has there own organization. And then I guess there can be like the Earth Council or something, that like the Olympics, is not held in the same place but rather moves around. So each continent participates. It's just a wild idea that came up as I was typing.

Lemme see... I may be being a bit radical but.. I say there be multiple world organizations.. the UN (Europe) and NATO (N. America). And all of those other continents can make there own organizations. They can be called CU's (Continental Unions) So each continent speaks to the world in as one voice. Each country speaking to the world is just to darn difficut.

Ok I was just rambling.. any thoughts?
Yes, the NATO consist of most of Europe and the US. The UN is a geo-political forum consisting of (almost) all nations of this planet. Since the majority of the countries is underdeveloped, it looks like a spokesperson for third world countries.

Canada is awesome, and Mexico is too! I don't think Americans have as much animosity to their neighbors, immediate, as Europeans do to each other, sure, we tried to invade Canada twice, but it failed, so in conclusion, North America rocks!

Canada is awesome, and Mexico is too! I don't think Americans have as much animosity to their neighbors, immediate, as Europeans do to each other, sure, we tried to invade Canada twice, but it failed, so in conclusion, North America rocks!

LOL, let's take it a step further. I say American patriotism. American being the entire west. Afterall, we are all Americans (North Americans, South Americans).

I am american. I don't hate any European country or its people. Although I wasn't treated very nicely in France, my experience there was very limited and so I wouldn't attempt to generalize.

Most of the americans who say they hate European countries probably couldn't even point to the country they hate on a map. They hear that the president changed the name of french fries to freedom fries because he was mad that the French wouldn't approve his war-for-oil. How immensely childish is that? And how blindly the Bush supporters fall into lock-step.

I think the Europeans have good reason to hate American foreign policy. Heck, even I hate our foreign policy at the moment. If I decide to travel outside the US I will probably claim I am Canadian.


Gee, maybe you should just BE a Canadian. If you let them shame you, then you have no pride.

I wanna go back to the UK.
So do i. i hate the French on football levels ONLY.
(for u not fluent in world sport dialect, i mean SOCCOR! not that pitifily violent sport YOU call foot ball!)

Wow, server *has* been kinda lame.


Anyway, going back a bit. The US may not have supplied *most* of Saddam's military, but we gave him the highest-tech stuff he had. Like the F-16s I mentioned.

While it's unlikely that the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden, (actually, when Ollie North went on trial for his role in the Iran-Contra affair, he called him 'the most dangerous man in the world,' though he wasn't exactly famous back then. )

What the US *did* do was train and support the muhajedin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, so we trained and supported a lot of guys who trained the *Taliban,* who were up to a lot of nasty things we didn't care about, (or even *hear* about, if you don't listen to PBS, it seems,) like oppressing and stoning women in, beating clean-shaven men to death, killing people they didn't like, all that kind of stuff...

And who was sheltering and aiding Osama and his boys for quite some time, etc, etc,

...For a few years before 9/11, anyway, ...forget when we really started hearing about it, so, you know...

Details, details, right?

So what if we were a bit sloppy about *who* took over a country, as long as it wasn't commies, right? What could it hurt?

Right?

Right?
From the perspective of the time (Cold War Era), yeah, we really didn't have a policy as long as they weren't commies, if we had known that the USSR was about and in terminal decline during most of the time, we should've done different.

It is great to see how the US (citizens and in general) seem to have something against the French, the same French who saved their asses during the independence war from the UK...

If you're going to throw that in our faces, don't whine about Americans bringing up World War II and freeing France from the Nazis and the collaborating Vichy government.

Can we all say, "Ok, we're even" now?

While it's unlikely that the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden, (actually, when Ollie North went on trial for his role in the Iran-Contra affair, he called him 'the most dangerous man in the world,' though he wasn't exactly famous back then. )

No he didn't, the man he said he was protecting himself from was Abu Nidal, and he never said anything about the most dangerous man in the world. And at the time of his testimony, Osama was not a terrorist (to the US), he was a freedom fighter, backed by the US fighting against the Soviet Occupation, so North didn't exactly hate him. Exactly where this rumor got started I've no idea, but some versions have him being questioned by a Senator, Al Gore, except that Senator Al Gore of Tennessee was not a member of the United States Senate Select Committee on Secret Military Assistance to Iran and the Nicaraguan Opposition and therefore did not take part in the questioning of any witnesses before the Committee. North never mentioned Osama Bin Laden in his testimony.

I know this is a little slow in coming as that quote up there was posted 200 some replies ago, but the original reason for this thread really appalled me! Most of all, it just astounds me how a person can be biased against an entire CONTINENT of countries. Don't forget buddy, the vast majority of people living in our country can trace their ancestry back to EUROPE! Without their existence, we wouldn't BE HERE! Perhaps that thought never occurred to the author of the first post on this thread. I do not support blind hatred towards Americans from Europeans either. For those of you Europeans who judge us by the politicians we have running our country, here's something to think about: Less than half of our eligible voters voted in the last presidential election. Of those LESS THAN HALF voters, the majority of them DID vote for Al Gore! Now that last statistic can be endlessly argued I know, but think about it. Less than 25% of our registered voters wanted Bush in office. As for our overconsuming tendencies, yes that's a problem. We have lots of obese people, and lots of stupid, greedy people who go bankrupt just like that. Problems? Yes... Then of course all countries have certain social and political problems that other countries are quick to recognize and point out. Basically the point I want to make here is that being biased against a whole continent, country, race, etc. is just simply narrowminded and ignorant. Thank you!


Hit the proverbial nail on the head as it were. TnR for president!!

contaray to popular belief most americans are not very patriotic at all. maybe for like a month after 911 but not really after that. It is actualy very disapointing.

Depends on wher you live. I guarantee you NYC and Washington DC are still feeling it; a month later, idiots from elsewhere in the US were telling us to "get over it."

Mind you, in NYC, the fires in the WTC burned for three months and we were rained on with concrete dust and human ashes for weeks... but hey, what the hell, it was nothing much.

[QUOTE]It is great to see how the US (citizens and in general) seem to have something against the French, the same French who saved their asses during the independence war from the UK...QUOTE]

Ya and were thankfull for that, but I would think our debt would be repaid after helping secure their independence in 2 World Wars. About 6,000 french troops were involved in the War (not including navy and volunteers) And they arrived in 1781...5 years after the Declaration of Independence was signed. The amount of deaths suffered by the US in the two world wars in comparison to the amount the french suffered during the Revoltuionary War is much higer.

Just another little story, but the same idea... A friend of mine was on vacation in England one time, on the 4th of July. That ngiht, he overheard another American tourist talking to a local, saying "Where are all the fireworks?"

Actually, I have a related story -- about ten years ago, I was in EPCOT Center (Disney World in Orlando, Florida) when a man, obviously from somewhere in the UK judging by his accent, was talking to one of the shopkeepers. He asked when the busiest times were in Disney, and the shop keeper said, "Oh, you know, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter and the fourth."

"The fourth? Of which month?"

The shopkeeper looked at him like he was nuts, and said, "Of July... Independence Day?"

I stuck my two cents in. "Why would anyone other than an American celebrate American Independence.... especially if one is from the nation we originally broke free from? I hardly think they were happy about it at the time...." Then I winked at the gent and said, "Though sometimes I wonder if they don't enjoy it now?"

He burst out laughing, and said, "Well, if we'd kept you, who knows whether you'd have gotten Florida from Spain -- where would I go on Holiday?"

Well, with the exception of Pre-China Tibet, perhaps you can find me a country that is not guilty of this? let alone a nation including all of its occupants?

Well, for a start, my country.

northern gimpland i have always wanted to go to new zealands thats my dream vacation most beautiful country anywhere and i knew it was near australia(who doesnt know that?) and i have to respectfully disagree with you on the war though saddam had to be thrown from power hes killed THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HIS OWN PEOPLE NOT TO MENTION KUWAITIS AND THEN WHEN HE SENT CHEMICAL WEAPONS INTO IRAN he deserves to die and i got nothing against europeans except france germany and russia is full of jerks who want to keep a killer in power and your opinion about americans doesnt really matter because you know nothing about us only what the news says we care about our country and we would do anything for it and i am glad we went over their and fought it was nessacary
to overthrow a ruthless murdering dictator

Firstly, I want to agree with you that New Zealand is quite beatiful - then again, so are most countries. And for what you say about who doesn't know where other countries are, well alot of you don't. 70% of Americans couldn't find the Middle East on the map, 40% of Americans don't have international passports and a guy I once talked to believed that America and New Zealand were connected by a long-ass bridge.

Secondly, I also agree with you that Saddam Hussein was a bad person. He SHOULD NEVER have achieved the status that he did. His actions and his families actions were nothing to be proud of. Murdering thousands and thousands of people is never a good thing. It's extraordinarily terrible. But what you don't realise is that you never invaded Iraq to through out Saddam. No. You were lied to. Iraq has a huge amount of oil, and your leaders thought that you better get it. So they portrayed an image of Saddam Hussein controlling Weapons of Mass Destruction (which after two years you still haven't found), and said that you better go take control of them for the safety of America.

Well that's good, and it would be nice if it were true, but it isn't.

July 2000: Donald Rumsfeld annouces to the nation in a press conference that he KNOWS that Hussein has no capable way of attacking the US, and he KNOWS that Hussein is NOT building up his weapons in order to attack the US. Hell, why should he - the US gave him everything he wanted! You were BUDDIES with him! It was even Rumsfeld himself who gave him the weapons necessary to take out the Kurds, and there is a quote from him that escapes me now which is something along the lines of 'We can trust this man to eliminate the Kurd presence.' You want to condemn Saddam for killing the Kurds - as you rightfully and honourably should - then also condemn America. Saddam could never have pulled it off without you! The best political cartoon I saw last year was one of Tony Blair and George Bush. Blair was saying, 'Damn! How are we going to prove that Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction?' and Bush says, 'Don't worry Tony, we can prove it - I have the receipts!'

You want other proof of why you invaded Iraq, not to throw out a dictator, but to gain oil profits, ease tension from September 11 and keep the power structure in place? Well then ask yourself this. Why Iraq? Sure, Iraq has a terrible dictator in place that should have been thrown out ten years ago, but so do many other places! Take Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe is ruling that country with an iron fist. He is rigging elections, torturing and killing political opponents, and making legal for peasants to take a white man's land and everything he owns simply by asking for it. He is truely a terrible dictator. But you don't invade Zimbabwe, because Zimbabwe doesn't have oil, and you can't connect it to September 11 (not that you could connect Iraq anyway).

Also, you might want to ask yourself this: are you really better than Saddam was? You are blowing up buildings and invading homes for no real reasons. You are torturing innocent people, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (and perhaps some not so innocent) in the very same prisons that Saddam used to! Ironic, isn't it? Saddam was an evil man but torturing is torturing, and I don't see how your side of it is any different from his. Many of the public in Iraq do believe that America is doing good, but most don't. Not only are you demolishing houses but controlling their money, too - America gained control of the Top 20 Iraqi businesses about half a year ago, and all for no cost.

Finally, you told me that I know nothing about America because I only know what the news says. Actually, that's not true. I listen to radio, and go on other internet sites that have information and then assess what I see. As for our news being ignorant of American issues (I know you didn't say that but you implied it) I heard recently in an interview with our top news reporter that they will often get overseas issues and with them will come roughly four different news articles, from ABC and BBC and England news etc. From those articles they will choose the one that they think tells the story from both sides fairly. HALF THE TIME ALL the stories will be so biased that they have to peice together all the articles and then have one of their own reporters do a voice-over. I also know that your media is very biased. You hardly ever see anything against the Iraqi war because most of the things that are are considered anti-American. And no, just quoting one sentance from a newspaper does not mean that your media is not biased - for every one anti-Iraq war statement you find I guarantee that there will be 20 other pro-war ones.

I think I made my point.

P.S. GO FARENHEIT 9/11!

I never said every country speaks english. Americans just want it that way. We don't really bother to learn other languages.

Truly?

I took Italian for six years in junior high and high school, then a year of French in college.


(I'm a New Yawker, btw.)

i feel cool i got mentioned in the first post!

Because of the British Empire and now due to American consuming by far the most produced goods in the world? just wondering. :mp5:


It is also, if I recall correctly, the international language of flight.

Ah, Burecia, Lafayette was a *hero* to our founding fathers, French aid *did* help us win the Revolution, and anything else is serious revisionism.

The Founding Fathers seem to have mentioned it a few times.

wow he trained a few troops by the time french navy and army got here war was over they didnt help us at all dude and kinsella i think american aid *did* save the french asses in ww2 but who cares?

[QUOTE=Firstly, I want to agree with you that New Zealand is quite beatiful - then again, so are most countries. And for what you say about who doesn't know where other countries are, well alot of you don't. 70% of Americans couldn't find the Middle East on the map, 40% of Americans don't have international passports and a guy I once talked to believed that America and New Zealand were connected by a long-ass bridge.

Secondly, I also agree with you that Saddam Hussein was a bad person. He SHOULD NEVER have achieved the status that he did. His actions and his families actions were nothing to be proud of. Murdering thousands and thousands of people is never a good thing. It's extraordinarily terrible. But what you don't realise is that you never invaded Iraq to through out Saddam. No. You were lied to. Iraq has a huge amount of oil, and your leaders thought that you better get it. So they portrayed an image of Saddam Hussein controlling Weapons of Mass Destruction (which after two years you still haven't found), and said that you better go take control of them for the safety of America.

Well that's good, and it would be nice if it were true, but it isn't.

July 2000: Donald Rumsfeld annouces to the nation in a press conference that he KNOWS that Hussein has no capable way of attacking the US, and he KNOWS that Hussein is NOT building up his weapons in order to attack the US. Hell, why should he - the US gave him everything he wanted! You were BUDDIES with him! It was even Rumsfeld himself who gave him the weapons necessary to take out the Kurds, and there is a quote from him that escapes me now which is something along the lines of 'We can trust this man to eliminate the Kurd presence.' You want to condemn Saddam for killing the Kurds - as you rightfully and honourably should - then also condemn America. Saddam could never have pulled it off without you! The best political cartoon I saw last year was one of Tony Blair and George Bush. Blair was saying, 'Damn! How are we going to prove that Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction?' and Bush says, 'Don't worry Tony, we can prove it - I have the receipts!'

You want other proof of why you invaded Iraq, not to throw out a dictator, but to gain oil profits, ease tension from September 11 and keep the power structure in place? Well then ask yourself this. Why Iraq? Sure, Iraq has a terrible dictator in place that should have been thrown out ten years ago, but so do many other places! Take Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe is ruling that country with an iron fist. He is rigging elections, torturing and killing political opponents, and making legal for peasants to take a white man's land and everything he owns simply by asking for it. He is truely a terrible dictator. But you don't invade Zimbabwe, because Zimbabwe doesn't have oil, and you can't connect it to September 11 (not that you could connect Iraq anyway).

Also, you might want to ask yourself this: are you really better than Saddam was? You are blowing up buildings and invading homes for no real reasons. You are torturing innocent people, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (and perhaps some not so innocent) in the very same prisons that Saddam used to! Ironic, isn't it? Saddam was an evil man but torturing is torturing, and I don't see how your side of it is any different from his. Many of the public in Iraq do believe that America is doing good, but most don't. Not only are you demolishing houses but controlling their money, too - America gained control of the Top 20 Iraqi businesses about half a year ago, and all for no cost.[/QUOTE]

so you know our leaders mind better then they do? hey dude more oil we take the better cuz gas prices are sky high over here lol

wow he trained a few troops by the time french navy and army got here war was over they didnt help us at all dude and kinsella i think american aid *did* save the french asses in ww2 but who cares?

He didn't train troops, that was Von Stueben, he led troops, and was one of Washingtons most trusted advisors. As to the arrival of the French Army and Navy, over half of Washington's beseiging Army at Yorktown was French, hardly arriving too late I think? Furthermore, had the British gotten into the Chesepeake, they could have evacuated Yorktown (they were quite adept at this) and either moved North to re-join the New York garrison and blow through the meager defenses Washington had left to watch it, and trample around the North for awhile, or go South again, land in Charleston, and wreak havoc on the Southern colonies, thereby destroying the fragile alliance of states. Greene's Army had destroyed almost all means of transportation across the rivers that divide Yorktown from the South to slow Cornwallis' pursuit, so the American Army cannot get back down South for many more weeks, all the while the US slowly slips apart.

I'd posit that any American who wants to sling mud at Europe, or indeed the rest of the world is essentially a masochist.

The US was built on the premise of being the "melting pot" of the world, and all her citizens are there because the rest of the world did, indeed, send its "huddled masses".

Certain sections of the US population (regardless of their own chronological age) are simply teenagers. By this I mean that their societal and social development does not allow them to perceive any issue other than those which immediately affect them personally. They have no world view. They have very little super-ego to their own ego. This is acceptable and even positive in small communities where indepndence is sought and valued. However, on the global stage, their attitudes and aspirations are destructive and ineffective.

Like teens, they are loud and vibrant in their proclamations of being #1. However, when examined, their achievements and ambitions are small and selfish. There has been much said on the arrogance and insularity of the US. Many choose not to hear it, and rightly so. Such generalisations are fit only for the schoolyard and the ramblings of drunks. That said, it is also imperative that any people who take pride in their position as a citizen of a global superpower have a responsibility not only to themselves, home and hearth, but also to have at least a mind to their country's standing and influence.

Power without responsibility is the thing which will destroy our species. At the moment, power is unquestionably being abused by some to the chagrin of the majority. Until America sees fit to re-examine her foriegn policies of, one the one hand gregarian exploitation and on the other xenophobic insularity, there will be no progress for the US or the world at large. This change must be at grass-roots level and can only be led and achieved through education and compromise.

Who was the Polish general who also trained US troops...Polaski i think. In Illinois his birthday is a state holiday. Due to the number of Poles who live in Chicago...the larger population of Poles than in Warsaw.

Who was the Polish general who also trained US troops...Polaski i think. In Illinois his birthday is a state holiday. Due to the number of Poles who live in Chicago...the larger population of Poles than in Warsaw.

Kashmir Polaski. Lol. I remember being pretty damn happy when I moved to Illinois in High School - Free Holiday!

Kashmir Polaski. Lol. I remember being pretty damn happy when I moved to Illinois in High School - Free Holiday!

Thats him....

Truly?

I took Italian for six years in junior high and high school, then a year of French in college.


(I'm a New Yawker, btw.)


Yes truly. Most schools don't have the resources to teach it. And it seems that if they do. Only the people interested in going to college take it. It should be mandatory.

Consider yourself very lucky to have experienced it.