NationStates Jolt Archive

Does this board seem to be full of a lot of 11-15 year olds with perhaps an over developed interest in politics and 'serious' shit? Although saying that, some of the arguments and debates put forward by this age group range from the plain daft to the completely idiotic (see any religion / homosexuality threads) and I believe that this is only due to their incredibly limited life experience, the question I have is this.

Why aren't you outside playing? Why aren't you running around forests building camps, chatting up girls, having your first drink in the woods with your friends and sneaking home.

Has the Internet does this? consoles? what?

When I was 11-14 I may have had a console (Sega master System! w00t!) But there was no interwebsuperhighwaynet - so we went outside and played, made friends, where as a lot of (and I hate using this term) 'youngsters' seem to spend all there time on the net debating nonsensical topics and slagging each other off? - (I'm not talking about every youngster here, some I've been muchos impressed with)

maybe I'm just getting older? Maybe being a kid these days is so completely different from when I was a kid I can't make comparisons. Jesus, everything my mother said is soming true......arghhhhhhh.

Please be kidding! You just NOW realised this!?

But this could be a humbling experience too... back in the days you had to open encyclopedia or go to the library to find out about stuff. Now they make a search and get informed - or disinformed, but hey... - and are able to make somekind of an opinion.

What's best in this is the anonymity. Where else could you see 16 year old Vietnam veterans, or so many people making 250 000$ a year and still being able to find time posting in NS homophopic/Bushbashing/Kerrybashing threads.

Al Gore really knew what he was doing when he invented the net: it's the great leveller. Now even those kids who back in the days got severely beaten if they dared to open their mouths can be rhetoric supermen.

So, it's just you...

I have to admit this is the only forum I post on where there are also kids, and I have to say I have been surprised at the level of uninformed rhetoric that I have discovered on here - seeing kids post about topics they can't possibly have a full understanding of is quite disturbing....perhaps more so is the fact that thy WANT to discuss these things.

When I was that age I really was more intested in having fun... ;p

Isn't it conceivable that discussing those things is fun?

I'm just impressed that so many of these aforementioned kids are interested in the subjects right now. And while they may start out uninformed, participating in something like this can help them become much more informed and make better decisions about political issues.

Hell, I'm much happier seeing people who can't yet vote on here than thinking about the number of people who never think about politics until they turn 18 and blindly vote for whom their parents tell them.

I have to admit this is the only forum I post on where there are also kids, and I have to say I have been surprised at the level of uninformed rhetoric that I have discovered on here - seeing kids post about topics they can't possibly have a full understanding of is quite disturbing....perhaps more so is the fact that thy WANT to discuss these things.

When I was that age I really was more intested in having fun... ;p

Read some of those politcal threads or religious threads, and you'll find that most of the adults are no more well informed than the teenagers - and, in fact, often less clued-in, with less excuse.

as a former stupid kid that posted stupid things on threads (I guess I still post a lot of stupid stuff, just not as ignorant) its a differant experience.

While it does give kids a chance to look at many other ideas, and makes them defend their own positions, I think there is a lot of life experience involved.

Regardless of how many times someone is told something, they wont learn it until they experience it for themselves, so in a way this may help these kids get the experience that they need to be involved in the modern internet intelligencia. Lol, it did for me, and look at me now

Read some of those politcal threads or religious threads, and you'll find that most of the adults are no more well informed than the teenagers - and, in fact, often less clued-in, with less excuse.

indeed

the other edge of the sword is that adults often get set in their ways, and wont listen to the ideas of the young for lack of experience.

That's pretty much how I look at it Salamae. I'd much rather they be interested in this kind of stuff than not. After all, once they reach adulthood, their vote counts just as much as mine, and I'd like to think that they have even a rudimentary level of curiosity about that responsibility.

the problem is you can be who you want!
Am I 12, 19, 24 or did i fight in WWI. Hell am I male or female?
The great thing about the web is anomity. An intelligent child will not be looked down on for being young, which is something we're all guilty of at some point in our lifes.
Also maybe before anyone contributes to this thread they should specify their age. As most don't put it in their profile.
I'm 24.

Ignorence is bliss, but the ratio is 11-14 not 11-15, and mild stupidty of 15-18

the other edge of the sword is that adults often get set in their ways, and wont listen to the ideas of the young for lack of experience.
dude that was completely my problem when I was a kid.

Now now folks, don't get me wrong......I'm just pointing out that when I was a kid....I was more interested in being outside an establishing real life connections, not virtual ones.

Theres no stopping progress eh! ;)

*I'm hoping the older ones amongst us will understand what I'm getting at*

Often the most intelligent things I've heard have come from kids, probably because they don't have the jaded views / emotional baggage older folks do (and that inevitably comes with time)

When I was 14 I remember thinking people my age were getting on and didn't have a clue.....of course now that position has completely reversed! :) hah hah

Does this board seem to be full of a lot of 11-15 year olds with perhaps an over developed interest in politics and 'serious' shit? Although saying that, some of the arguments and debates put forward by this age group range from the plain daft to the completely idiotic (see any religion / homosexuality threads) and I believe that this is only due to their incredibly limited life experience, the question I have is this.

Why aren't you outside playing? Why aren't you running around forests building camps, chatting up girls, having your first drink in the woods with your friends and sneaking home.

Has the Internet does this? consoles? what?

When I was 11-14 I may have had a console (Sega master System! w00t!) But there was no interwebsuperhighwaynet - so we went outside and played, made friends, where as a lot of (and I hate using this term) 'youngsters' seem to spend all there time on the net debating nonsensical topics and slagging each other off? - (I'm not talking about every youngster here, some I've been muchos impressed with)

maybe I'm just getting older? Maybe being a kid these days is so completely different from when I was a kid I can't make comparisons. Jesus, everything my mother said is soming true......arghhhhhhh.

How old are you by the way? Hell I remember being the exact same.

Usually I dont care how old someone is when they are posting stuff, I just really hate when they start going "hey u sUxorz1!1!1! u stoopid gay fag! I lod u viris!" That crap pisses me off. But I say if they know what they are talking about then go ahead and debate.

*I'm hoping the older ones amongst us will understand what I'm getting at*

I think most people understand what you are getting at, just differant people have differnat likes.

When i was 16-17 I used to post lots on fourms, but still went out and was a lot more socially active than i am now (unrelated reasons lol).

Politics has always been more interesting to me than sports or whatnot. Its where I have always excelled.

"The internet, for the cerebral jocks".

im only 19 btw

Now now folks, don't get me wrong......I'm just pointing out that when I was a kid....I was more interested in being outside an establishing real life connections, not virtual ones.

Theres no stopping progress eh! ;)

*I'm hoping the older ones amongst us will understand what I'm getting at*

I have noticed this amongst some of the kids I've taught-- the idea of talking to people and becoming "friends" on the Internet had never really crossed my mind until some of my Upward Bound students this summer started talking about people they knew in Texas and Washington and other places halfway across the country from Indiana. It's a different experience, and quite frankly, I do feel like it's not as healthy as working harder on face-to-face relationships.

But maybe I'm just a stick in the mud.

Now now folks, don't get me wrong......I'm just pointing out that when I was a kid....I was more interested in being outside an establishing real life connections, not virtual ones.

Theres no stopping progress eh! ;)

*I'm hoping the older ones amongst us will understand what I'm getting at*
now I understand that you think kids should be out in the real world but some kids have nothing to do like ever man, they are smart so their work is done they hang out with their freinds but they don't do sports and their freinds do they normally have to do something when their freinds aren't at the games or training, so they have nothing to do, becasue they already finshed like everything they are supposed to, so they get online and try and have civil chats only to discover like the rest of the world they think be young makes you less knowledgable (that was most likely spell wrong), so they mask their age.

I'm 27. Which of course is not even in the slightest bit old - but a long way away from being 14.

Like I said....I'm trying to understand something.

When I was a kid I had adventures outside, chatted up girls, had sneaky beers in the woods, camp overs, hiking round mountains and forests and lot's of playing out with real live friends.

whereas now it seems it's all text messaging / email / msn and forums.

Please don't get the wrong end of the stick and think I'm slagging of younger folk, I'm not....just trying to understand what's more appealing about virtual friends as opposed to real ones.

(oh and I've been using the net since I was 16 (compuserve!) so I love the net and think it's great for making friends, just dont think it can replace a real life)

Please don't get the wrong end of the stick and think I'm slagging of younger folk, I'm not....just trying to understand what's more appealing about virtual friends as opposed to real ones.

(oh and I've been using the net since I was 16 (compuserve!) so I love the net and think it's great for making friends, just dont think it can replace a real life)

there is a huge modern press for kids to do everything via computer. Its easier to have the same conversations you would be with friends over a cpu while be able to play games, talk to anyone else, and basically make up a compleatly new persona.

Most 11-14 year olds have internet adventures where they "make believe" much like I did outside with my friends (i didnt get the internet until i was like 15). Now the make believe is "I can be older, ect, ect"

(oh and I've been using the net since I was 16 (compuserve!) so I love the net and think it's great for making friends, just dont think it can replace a real life)
they don't

indeed

the other edge of the sword is that adults often get set in their ways, and wont listen to the ideas of the young for lack of experience.

When you are 15, you are fighting the establishment...

When you are 30, you ARE the establishment...

I think that pretty much sums it up for most people...

Agreed.

As for having adventues on the net.....The problem with that is you will get so used to pretending and being something your not, how are you meant to develop proper social relationships? You could come on the net and pretend to be older, earn more money etc etc but then surely people will like you for what you want them to believe - as opposed to who you really are.

While I'm the largest advocate of the Net, I really do think we are heading for trouble with the next generation - theres going to be a lot of people who don't know how to deal with real people in a real environment.

and our generation did better?

The only things I generally feel comfortable debating have everything to do with the Universe, and nothing to do with politics, however; the arguments/debates here are interesting to read, so until I become more comfortable, read is what I'll do.

< Sixteen.

There seem to be two issues being discussed here.

First, are kids spending too much time in front of a computer and not going out and learning how to interact in real life? Most assuredly some are, and their parents should - in those cases - limit their allowed time in front of the screen. There were kids that were like that when I was a teen too except for them it was going home and vegging in front of the TV. At least with the computer they have some interaction with the outside world going on.

But it is a matter of balance and if the parents let the child become a hermit then they are abdicating their responsibilities. Some kids need a kick in the butt to get out and do things. The only thing that has changed is their venue for imposing solitude on themselves.

There is also, I think, more of an atmosphere of fear these days. Parents are afraid to let their kids out in the same way I was allowed to roam the neighbourhood as a boy. I'm not sure that the world really is a lot more dangerous now, indeed statistically I belive that most crimes are down since the early 80s, but the perception is that it is too dangerous to let your kids have those same freedoms that we enjoyed. So if your kid is happy sitting in their room staring at a screen, then at least they are home. At least that seems to be a mindset I have run accross.


The second issue had to do with political awareness in general. Frankly, I certainly remember trying to get a handle on how the world worked and why it worked the way it did before high school. Hell, I was invloved in starting a petition to city council when I was 12. As a child's world expands and as they become more aware then it is only natural to try and understand how it all works. They DO, however, still tend to see things in more black and white terms than us old folks do. We've just had time to see a few more shades of grey, and perhaps learned a thing or two along the way. Does that make us jaded? Or more realistic? A bit of both perhaps.

What the internet certainly allows teens the the opportunity to adopt an older persona. They know damn well that most adults won't sit down and have the same political chat with them looking at their age. They get brushed off, dissmissed, and condescended to. The Internet allows them to have those conversations while given an equal playing field. People are taken seriously until such time as they prove themselves not to be worth it. It is far more of a system of meritocracy that I would have loved to have had at that age.

And I applaud them their interest and passion in politics. It is, after all, the only true sport for intelligent adults.



But every life needs balance. I work, I spend time with my family and friends, and yes I debate on NS.

If all you are doing is to rush home after school every day to spend your time online - please notice that your computer has a power switch that includes the option of being OFF, and remember to spend some time out in the real world.

Politics won't really affect your world a whole lot if you don't actually spend some time out in it.

"The internet, for the cerebral jocks".

And that... to me, sums up the whole thing.

The youth of today are the most educated generation yet... they have access to so much more information than many of us had access to... and I guess I like the fact that there are a number of them that are USING the information, that are LOOKING for more knowledge, that WANT to debate issues - even if they have less experience.

Our modern society seems to frown on education - children get bullied at school for being 'geeks' or whatever, if they enjoy learning... bosses HATE to promote someone in a job, if that person is better educated than they are, etc. Some of our youngsters are fighting against that tide - educating themselves despite the unpopularity that goes with it.

And, remember that more than 90% of all internet interaction is pornography or sex related... there are a lot of worse places the 'kids' could be when online.

I believe that is why I enjoy this site so much, because I know the majority (but certainly not all) of the people I debate with are kids/teens/young adults. I admire the fact that they are even interested in the political system rather then Gameboy. Although it also frustrates me at the same time because as we all know when we were under 30, I'll even give you 25.. we all thought we were right 100% of the time.. It's like that old joke, "the older I get the smarter my parents seem to become" Although I do find when I discuss politics with adults I tend not to get near as frustrated, but it's all par for the course. I'm a parent, I just experiment on the young here on NS.. LMAO :D

You know you're old when..
you complain about kids and reference the good old days.

You know you're old when..
you complain about kids and reference the good old days.

Hehe, to be fair, I usually only complain about my own kids..lol :p

Does this board seem to be full of a lot of 11-15 year olds with perhaps an over developed interest in politics and 'serious' shit? Although saying that, some of the arguments and debates put forward by this age group range from the plain daft to the completely idiotic (see any religion / homosexuality threads) and I believe that this is only due to their incredibly limited life experience, the question I have is this.

Why aren't you outside playing? Why aren't you running around forests building camps, chatting up girls, having your first drink in the woods with your friends and sneaking home.

Has the Internet does this? consoles? what?

When I was 11-14 I may have had a console (Sega master System! w00t!) But there was no interwebsuperhighwaynet - so we went outside and played, made friends, where as a lot of (and I hate using this term) 'youngsters' seem to spend all there time on the net debating nonsensical topics and slagging each other off? - (I'm not talking about every youngster here, some I've been muchos impressed with)

maybe I'm just getting older? Maybe being a kid these days is so completely different from when I was a kid I can't make comparisons. Jesus, everything my mother said is soming true......arghhhhhhh.

It's because there nerds 'duh'

Does this board seem to be full of a lot of 11-15 year olds with perhaps an over developed interest in politics and 'serious' shit? Although saying that, some of the arguments and debates put forward by this age group range from the plain daft to the completely idiotic (see any religion / homosexuality threads) and I believe that this is only due to their incredibly limited life experience, the question I have is this.

Why aren't you outside playing? Why aren't you running around forests building camps, chatting up girls, having your first drink in the woods with your friends and sneaking home.

Has the Internet does this? consoles? what?

When I was 11-14 I may have had a console (Sega master System! w00t!) But there was no interwebsuperhighwaynet - so we went outside and played, made friends, where as a lot of (and I hate using this term) 'youngsters' seem to spend all there time on the net debating nonsensical topics and slagging each other off? - (I'm not talking about every youngster here, some I've been muchos impressed with)

maybe I'm just getting older? Maybe being a kid these days is so completely different from when I was a kid I can't make comparisons. Jesus, everything my mother said is soming true......arghhhhhhh.

Comeon, its good that they at least show an interest.

There seem to be two issues being discussed here.

First, are kids spending too much time in front of a computer and not going out and learning how to interact in real life? Most assuredly some are, and their parents should - in those cases - limit their allowed time in front of the screen. There were kids that were like that when I was a teen too except for them it was going home and vegging in front of the TV. At least with the computer they have some interaction with the outside world going on.

But it is a matter of balance and if the parents let the child become a hermit then they are abdicating their responsibilities. Some kids need a kick in the butt to get out and do things. The only thing that has changed is their venue for imposing solitude on themselves.

There is also, I think, more of an atmosphere of fear these days. Parents are afraid to let their kids out in the same way I was allowed to roam the neighbourhood as a boy. I'm not sure that the world really is a lot more dangerous now, indeed statistically I belive that most crimes are down since the early 80s, but the perception is that it is too dangerous to let your kids have those same freedoms that we enjoyed. So if your kid is happy sitting in their room staring at a screen, then at least they are home. At least that seems to be a mindset I have run accross.


The second issue had to do with political awareness in general. Frankly, I certainly remember trying to get a handle on how the world worked and why it worked the way it did before high school. Hell, I was invloved in starting a petition to city council when I was 12. As a child's world expands and as they become more aware then it is only natural to try and understand how it all works. They DO, however, still tend to see things in more black and white terms than us old folks do. We've just had time to see a few more shades of grey, and perhaps learned a thing or two along the way. Does that make us jaded? Or more realistic? A bit of both perhaps.

What the internet certainly allows teens the the opportunity to adopt an older persona. They know damn well that most adults won't sit down and have the same political chat with them looking at their age. They get brushed off, dissmissed, and condescended to. The Internet allows them to have those conversations while given an equal playing field. People are taken seriously until such time as they prove themselves not to be worth it. It is far more of a system of meritocracy that I would have loved to have had at that age.

And I applaud them their interest and passion in politics. It is, after all, the only true sport for intelligent adults.



But every life needs balance. I work, I spend time with my family and friends, and yes I debate on NS.

If all you are doing is to rush home after school every day to spend your time online - please notice that your computer has a power switch that includes the option of being OFF, and remember to spend some time out in the real world.

Politics won't really affect your world a whole lot if you don't actually spend some time out in it.


Well said.

You know you're old when..
you complain about kids and reference the good old days.


heh Heh, yeah cheers mate! ;)

Thanks everyone, it's certainly given me a new perspective and I've come up with this conclusion.

Kids today have more information readily available and therefore take an interest in things at an earlier stage and in different ways, much the same way that when I was 14 my mother thought it shocking that I had been drinking.....it was the beggining of a change in generations, where people get older younger.

I've also concluded that people my age on here rock, cos we got smart without the net. ;)

I've also concluded that people my age on here rock, cos we got smart without the net. ;)

While I certainly can't argue with that. As I believe it's true. However, I believe the net in many ways is a double edge sword. The problem with some kids today who have decided to come into the political fray is that they some times have trouble with source material. In other words, just because some one puts a site up on the net with what they claim is "true" information, doesn't make it so. In my day we had to actually read books to get information. Now while the same argument could be made that just because it's in a book, doesn't make it true, it was far less likely to happen then on the net. So, what I have found is that while kids have access to much more information then perhaps we did, they also seem to be more inclined to fall prey on myths and misinformation, more so then we did as kids. I suppose that's the trade off. Thus, I always try to stress to use a credible source, so many kids that post here don't. (btw, I'm Zeppistan's wife, not sure if you knew that or not) :)

While I certainly can't argue with that. As I believe it's true. However, I believe the net in many ways is a double edge sword. The problem with some kids today who have decided to come into the political fray is that they some times have trouble with source material. In other words, just because some one puts a site up on the net with what they claim is "true" information, doesn't make it so. In my day we had to actually read books to get information. Now while the same argument could be made that just because it's in a book, doesn't make it true, it was far less likely to happen then on the net. So, what I have found is that while kids have access to much more information then perhaps we did, they also seem to be more inclined to fall prey on myths and misinformation, more so then we did as kids. I suppose that's the trade off. Thus, I always try to stress to use a credible source, so many kids that post here don't. (btw, I'm Zeppistan's wife, not sure if you knew that or not) :)

Thats a fair point, and it's interesting because I was discussing the exact same thing at university today.

I had an interest in politics from a young age, and the internet really helped me find people with the same beliefs and foster that interest (and also to back up my arguments!!) . However, false propaganda can be used as a tool to attract young people to ideologies like fascism...it is definitely a double edged sword. Then again, I was able to ignore the negative side, and I had no more common sense than the average 14 year old...so why can't others?

heh Heh, yeah cheers mate! ;)

Thanks everyone, it's certainly given me a new perspective and I've come up with this conclusion.

Kids today have more information readily available and therefore take an interest in things at an earlier stage and in different ways, much the same way that when I was 14 my mother thought it shocking that I had been drinking.....it was the beggining of a change in generations, where people get older younger.

I've also concluded that people my age on here rock, cos we got smart without the net. ;)

Actually, in some respects I feel that the internet has diminished the learning experience.

If we were interested in a subject we would research it the old-fashioned way. Go to a library and look for the information through a stack of books. To find that nugget of info you had to scan the table of contents, look for a likely candidate, and at least scan the chapter if not read it completely. This meant that you were absorbing a certain volume of information by way of the technique of research. Even fruitless searches required you to read a fair bit, and you often got sidetracked in interesting ways.

Today you Google for a keyword or phrase, link to a single page that contains that keyword, and then ctt-f to jump straight to the sentance containing the keyword. It is far easier find and to cherrypick facts, but it is also very easy to completely ignore the surrounding information that often provides the context needed to really understand the meat of the subject.

In that respect, it is easier to find specifics but also easier to actually avoid learning why those specifics are what they are.

Actually, in some respects I feel that the internet has diminished the learning experience.

If we were interested in a subject we would research it the old-fashioned way. Go to a library and look for the information through a stack of books. To find that nugget of info you had to scan the table of contents, look for a likely candidate, and at least scan the chapter if not read it completely. This meant that you were absorbing a certain volume of information by way of the technique of research. Even fruitless searches required you to read a fair bit, and you often got sidetracked in interesting ways.

Today you Google for a keyword or phrase, link to a single page that contains that keyword, and then ctt-f to jump straight to the sentance containing the keyword. It is far easier find and to cherrypick facts, but it is also very easy to completely ignore the surrounding information that often provides the context needed to really understand the meat of the subject.

In that respect, it is easier to find specifics but also easier to actually avoid learning why those specifics are what they are.

That was basically the point I was trying to make sweety :fluffle:

That was basically the point I was trying to make sweety :fluffle:


Oh sure.... be all agreeable with me.

:p


:fluffle:

Actually, in some respects I feel that the internet has diminished the learning experience.

If we were interested in a subject we would research it the old-fashioned way. Go to a library and look for the information through a stack of books. To find that nugget of info you had to scan the table of contents, look for a likely candidate, and at least scan the chapter if not read it completely. This meant that you were absorbing a certain volume of information by way of the technique of research. Even fruitless searches required you to read a fair bit, and you often got sidetracked in interesting ways.

Today you Google for a keyword or phrase, link to a single page that contains that keyword, and then ctt-f to jump straight to the sentance containing the keyword. It is far easier find and to cherrypick facts, but it is also very easy to completely ignore the surrounding information that often provides the context needed to really understand the meat of the subject.

In that respect, it is easier to find specifics but also easier to actually avoid learning why those specifics are what they are.

I don't really agree that the net is the problem... I think there are a class of people who will just cherry-pick facts, and a class of people who will do their research. For those who cherrypick, it is just as easy with paper reference material as it is online... depending on where you live, it might even be easier. My in-laws are bible-belt and have heaps of books, leaflets etc. of stuff about how 'all homosexuals rape children' and 'the evils of communism', etc etc. If you are going to look for information that is political or religious, there is almost always going to be a subjective angle to the material, whether it is digital media or sitting in the library.

At the same time... those kids who want to make a good argument will find their information on the net, and read around the subject anyway - just so that nobody can follow the same links and say "Yes, but two lines further down the same page it says...."

I make a great deal of use of the net, for the purposes of research and learning - but I also have stacks of books for the subjects that interest me... and I use both types of reference material.

Incidentally - kids who want to learn and buy a book are stuck with a book if it turns out to be useless. If they search online, they have thousands of times as much information to search in, at a fraction of the cost.

I'm 12, but I don't even try to post on the religon and politics threads, I have my opinions, but I don't know enough to defend my position there. I do think that kids need to spend more time outside, and I'm outside a lot, but part of the reason a lot of kids are on here is because it is the summer and we are BORED! Once school starts you "adults" will have your forum back, I know that I won't be on here much anymore starting August 19.