NationStates Jolt Archive

Example of Evil.


Tonight, I saw former President of the United States William Jefferson Clinton, on The Daily Show, with John Stewart, (My favorite Hebrew).

He spoke of the evil tactics, utilized by George Bush, and created by Karl Rove.
The prime example of evil, to me, was the "Push Poll", that many South Carolina residents recieved, among many other states.
The call was like this:

Unsuspecting Resident: "Hello?"

Caller: "Hi Im from an Independant polling company, and I was wondering if you would mind answering a quick question about the upcoming election?"

Resident: "Umm..sure, I suppose."

Caller: "Great, The question is this: If you knew that John Mcain was a liar and a thief, and betrayed his country in Veitnam, and had also fathered an illegitamate black child, would you be more likely, or less likely to vote for him?"

Resident :"Uhhh...Less Likely, I suppose."

Caller: "Thank you for your time."


Thats it.
Not only is none of it true, but its not even a real poll.
Nobody is recording how many people are actually say "Less Likely."
The whole point of the call is to put the seed of doubt about (In this case McCain) the other candidate.

McCain has never fathered an illegitimate child of any color.
He did however, adopt an orphan girl from a third world nation.

These are the kind of tactics that the Bush administration are using in this election.
They did this example even before the last election, against John McCain...
A member of thier own party!...for the Republican Nomination.

What kind of dirty tricks do you think they will pull against Kerry, to keep the most critical job in the world?

If they will do this to someone on thier own side, is there anything they WONT stoop to?

source?

Yeah, that's pretty evil I'd have to say. Its been used several times in the past for exactly the reason of trying to change people's minds. Its legal, but underhanded.

A source would be good, as a side note.

Bill Clinton talking about evil tactics, the inventor of the attack dog defense. The” if it’s true call them a liar and smear their good name” style of debate. Man that’s really funny.

source?


President Bill Clinton, on the daily show.

However, I did not provide a source because this is common knowledge.

i wouldn't say that was evil - not any more so than getting a bj from your intern

raping a woman, cutting off her arms, and then leaving her for dead in the desert is evil (oh, I only mention this because it happened in the SouthWest US a few years ago)

i wouldn't say that was evil - not any more so than getting a bj from your intern

raping a woman, cutting off her arms, and then leaving her for dead in the desert is evil (oh, I only mention this because it happened in the SouthWest US a few years ago)


Let me get this straight...

Youre telling me that getting a frickin blowjob is comparable to lying to many people about a member of your own party, and slandering his name, even thougfh the man is is war hero?

Oh man... I can't wait untill I can be a politician.

Cheating on your wife is about one of the most despicable things you can possibly do....

What is happening here is worse yes, but I would say Bill Clinton's word is worth absolute shit.

Cheating on your wife is about one of the most despicable things you can possibly do....

What is happening here is worse yes, but I would say Bill Clinton's word is worth absolute shit. I think cheating on your significant other is actually very low on the list of despicable things you can actually do to a person... or people....
Very very Low

Cheating on your wife is about one of the most despicable things you can possibly do....

What is happening here is worse yes, but I would say Bill Clinton's word is worth absolute shit.


and yet, cheating on your wife is not a crime.

Its a matter between you, and your wife.

Clintons word is even more valuable, now that he isnt in office anymore.
He has nothing left to hide, and can tell the truth however he likes.

Regardless of Clintons honesty, we dont have to take his word for this.
This isnt news.
Many people have known about this "Push Poll" for some time now.

Youre telling me that getting a frickin blowjob is comparable to lying to many people about a member of your own party, and slandering his name, even thougfh the man is is war hero?

Non-partisan question: who exactly is meant to be lying?

Non-partisan question: who exactly is meant to be lying?


Are you asking who was doing the lying in the Push Poll?

Are you asking who was doing the lying in the Push Poll?

Yes.

It might be evil ... one day ... with a bit of effort:

Making the Interweb a little more evil (http://www.damocles.thebda.com)

President Bill Clinton, on the daily show.

However, I did not provide a source because this is common knowledge.

So its hearsay then?

If it's intention is to spread rumours that isn't true and that could hurt a persons reputation, then I sure hope it's not legal the US. Here in Sweden this is illegal, but not seen as a great crime.

Much as I disagree with this tactic, as a friend commented to me once, it is a brilliant tactic. Evil, effective, it all depends on how you look at it.

You see, it may well be a lie (in this case it was) but the person will think about it and all of his decisions will be coloured by that knowledge even if it is only on a subconcious level.

Let's just say I said to you that George Bush eats babies. That's rediculous, and a lie. However, it could be true and you will think about that, and on a subconcious level you will start to dislike Bush more, or like him more depending.

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Push_poll

Google search, keywords push poll, first entry. With additional links on the matter. :rolleyes: If you are to lazy for a bit of research its no wonder that oppinions form on few facts interpreted by even fewer media people instead of a own point of view after examining different angles on the subject.

You see, it may well be a lie (in this case it was) but the person will think about it and all of his decisions will be coloured by that knowledge even if it is only on a subconcious level.


Please could someone explain to me who is lying in the example given in the first post?

Please could someone explain to me who is lying in the example given in the first post?

Effectively no-one. They asked a hypothectical question... that was intended to cause the voter to believe it was fact. I consider that a form of art-manipulation rather.

Of course, if you are giving false information, even if you claim to be asking a hypothetical question, it is still spreading false information. A lie by any other name.

Effectively no-one. They asked a hypothectical question... that was intended to cause the voter to believe it was fact. I consider that a form of art-manipulation rather.

Good to see someone else making that distinction.

Of course, if you are giving false information, even if you claim to be asking a hypothetical question, it is still spreading false information. A lie by any other name.

Possibly the term 'dissimulation' would be a lot more accurate and appropriate rather than using the term you have admitted to be incorrect.

Possibly the term 'dissimulation' would be a lot more accurate and appropriate rather than using the term you have admitted to be incorrect.


A point, but for simplicity's sake, and because I've been awake for something like 36 hours at this point, just going with an easy term that is on hand and being thrown about is what I'll stick with.

Don't ask why I'm still up, just don't ask.

Then again, how do you know he didn't just say this in order to sway you against Bush? This could've been the exact same thing, except seemingly more legitimate.
And even if it was done, how do you know it was organised by the party? It could have been done by an extremist supporter.
If they did indeed do it, how do you know this wasn't just as evil a tactic by the other side?
Don't accuse me of being a party member or something like that, I'm British.

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Push_poll

Google search, keywords push poll, first entry. With additional links on the matter. :rolleyes: If you are to lazy for a bit of research its no wonder that oppinions form on few facts interpreted by even fewer media people instead of a own point of view after examining different angles on the subject.

It had nothing to do with being too lazy to look it up. As I have been regularly informed by Stephistan and a number of others, it is important to back up your statements with sources when asked. I was simply requesting a source for the claim. The OP could not supply me with the source but I thank you for providing one on his behalf.
As I am not in the US it is not "common knowledge" to me. And if it were common knowledge, then a link to a source or story on the said incident would not have been so hard to produce. As you proved in your above statement.
That being said, if people are stupid enough to take the suggestion of the Push Poll as fact without seeking information themselves then it says a lot for the voter's intelligence.

So its hearsay then?


No.

This is not hearsay.

This is an actual event ( or rather an example of several events) that took place before the 2000 election, when Bush was running against John McCain for the Republican bid.

The Poll was designed by Karl Rove, and was implemented in several states, such as South Carolina.

I did not provide a link, or a source, becuase the fact that this poll ever took place in not in question, many politicians and journalists know of this, and you can find it on google, or most other search engines.

The reason I chose to illuminate it here, is becuase not many people on this forum, (or in general, really) have heard of this kind of tactic before.