NationStates Jolt Archive

Is anyone else getting annoyed by the relentless anti-French sludge coming from certain corners (malignant neo-cons) of this forum?

It seems that ever since the Iraq debacle, Americans were OK with France. But since France criticised the war, many false, hyperbolic and wildy emotive flames have been directed towards the French people.

Examples:

"All French people hate America"

"France has never won a war"

"The French are cowards"

"cheese-eating surrender monkeys"

"The French are anti-Semitic"

"Everyone hates the French"

"The French are [insert negative noun/adjective/adverb]"

"The French hardly helped America at all in the War of Independence"

Well, you get the idea. The last one is an especially interesting attempt to rewrite history. I usually hear that the French provided "only" 6,000 ground troops, but the France-haters conveniently ignore the fact that the French Navy won the war at sea for Americans.

I have even heard of anti-French actions in the US. Products of France destroyed, French flags burned, everything! Are these Americans really such trolls as to hate all of France because their government refused to support the Iraq war?

And I didn't even mention Freedom Fries....

I think its not only because of the Anti-Iraq war stance the French government had but the virulence with which the French people (among others) expressed it - 25% of the people in France wanted Uncle Saddam to win. Add that to seeing anti-American rallies in France (and Germany, etc.) on TV a lot and the way France is seen as the leader of the Anti-war movement...

"The French are anti-Semitic"



Well, there has been a pretty major problem with this recently..... Le Pin got way too much support from radicals and anti-Semites (anti-semitism being taken to mean hating Semitic people... arabs and jews).

What goes around comes around. I'm myself know that not all Frenchmen are like some would like to believe, but you have to understand that many Americans are "anti-France" because a strong majority in France have been anti-American.

Is anyone else getting annoyed by the relentless anti-French sludge coming from certain corners (malignant neo-cons) of this forum?
Well, it's good for the Anti-American movement.


I have even heard of anti-French actions in the US. Products of France destroyed, French flags burned, everything! Are these Americans really such trolls as to hate all of France because their government refused to support the Iraq war?

Yes. There were actions like that. Buying French wine and then pouring it into the gutter for example. :D Americans realy are dumb.

25% of the people in France wanted Uncle Saddam to win.
When you make a statement like that, you should show something to back it up. There is a huge difference between not wanting the US to intervene and being pro-Saddam. Anti-war is not pro-Saddam, no matter how many times Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly say it.

I still french kiss. Does that make me a traitor? *blink*

well i for one am sick of it
the french have been our allies since the revolutionary war
they arent our vassals, they have their own national interest to think of.
when we really need them they will be there for us.

Dude, calm down. That only applies to the message board, not us Americans here


see, that Freedom Fries thing was completly pathetic, no one bought it

and we've been doing all this to the French for as long as I can remember, it was their call on Iraq that sparked it up again.

Besides, it's just stereotypes. We Americans suffer it more so than the French...or probably equally...

I think its not only because of the Anti-Iraq war stance the French government had but the virulence with which the French people (among others) expressed it - 25% of the people in France wanted Uncle Saddam to win. Add that to seeing anti-American rallies in France (and Germany, etc.) on TV a lot and the way France is seen as the leader of the Anti-war movement...
Could you give us a source for that figure?

Those demonstrations were not anti-American. They were anti-war. Naturally, there were a few anti-American nutcases there, but most of the people were just anti-war. You caould level the same charge at Ireland. On 15th February 2003 I participated in an anti-war demonstration in Dublin. 100,000 other people (10% of my city's population) were there too. I didn't see many anti-American placards.

I believe that the only reason the Rethugnicans didn't vilify Germany as well is because of the high proportion of German-American voters that could be alienated. Like Donald Rumsfeld. ;)

Well, there has been a pretty major problem with this recently..... Le Pen got way too much support from radicals and anti-Semites (anti-semitism being taken to mean hating Semitic people... arabs and jews).
Maybe this is because France has the highest proportions of both Jews and Muslims in Europe? There is a problem, but very few French people are anti-Semitic. Most of the anti-Jewish attacks were perpatrated by young Arab men, not Le Pen's neo-Nazis.

As for Le Pen's 2002 "victory", that was more a matter of voter apathy than of his party actually enjoying widspread support. Only about 30% of voters turned out, but of course all his hardcore voters turned up, so he got the second largest number of votes.

France bashing was a fun and engaging activity, until American jingoism made it politically correct to do so.

I still french kiss. Does that make me a traitor? *blink*
No, but you have to call it a Liberty Lip-Lock. ;)

Maybe this is because France has the highest proportions of both Jews and Muslims in Europe?

Well, that is patently untrue: how does France have a higher proportion of Muslims than say, Bosnia & Herzegovinia?

Well, that is patently untrue: how does France have a higher proportion of Muslims than say, Bosnia & Herzegovinia?
Thats not the point. Frictions are mainly between Muslims and Jews. France has plenty of both of them.

Well, that is patently untrue: how does France have a higher proportion of Muslims than say, Bosnia & Herzegovinia?

Maybe because B-H has population around 4 million, of which roughly 40% is muslim (heck, let's say 50%). France has population over 60 million of which 5-10% are muslims.

uh-oh, proportion, my bad... but atleast you learnt interesting figures :)

Thats not the point.

It may not be the point, but it was put forward as evidence in a wider argument and was incorrect (or was a different point stated incorrectly).

My spurious-statement detector just started bleeping, and I had to answer its call.

Is anyone else getting annoyed by the relentless anti-French sludge coming from certain corners (malignant neo-cons) of this forum?

It seems that ever since the Iraq debacle, Americans were OK with France. But since France criticised the war, many false, hyperbolic and wildy emotive flames have been directed towards the French people.

Examples:

"All French people hate America"

"France has never won a war"

"The French are cowards"

"cheese-eating surrender monkeys"

"The French are anti-Semitic"

"Everyone hates the French"

"The French are [insert negative noun/adjective/adverb]"

"The French hardly helped America at all in the War of Independence"

Well, you get the idea. The last one is an especially interesting attempt to rewrite history. I usually hear that the French provided "only" 6,000 ground troops, but the France-haters conveniently ignore the fact that the French Navy won the war at sea for Americans.

I have even heard of anti-French actions in the US. Products of France destroyed, French flags burned, everything! Are these Americans really such trolls as to hate all of France because their government refused to support the Iraq war?

And I didn't even mention Freedom Fries....

I agree, it is sickening. Calling French cowards is the farthest thing from the truth. Anti-French racists like to heckle at the French because they 'always surrender.' Yes, certain French leaders have surrendered in the past, forcing the soldiers to surrender as well, but the individual French soldiers themselves are extremely brave and heroic. I have three words that will sum up how courageous these men are, even when the odds are against them: Dien Bien Phu.

I don't blame France one bit for not getting tangled in our mess. We turned our backs on them during the French-Indochina War, so why should they help us now?

bump

Just out of interest are those who believe the French are "cheese eating surrender monkeys" (and just for the record the Simpsons is a satire. Quoting Homer as an authority just makes you look like a moron) in favour of returning the Statue of Liberty to them?

Yes. There were actions like that. Buying French wine and then pouring it into the gutter for example. :D Americans realy are dumb.


Well, I've done that before.... mind you, I was bright enough to proccess it through my liver first!

:D

Well, I've done that before.... mind you, I was bright enough to proccess it through my liver first!

:D

LOL!

Didn't you know? Hating France makes you more patriotic and a better American?

What I can't stand are the people who say "If it weren't for us, the French would be speaking German and wearing swastikas, so they should kiss our feet". Yeah, if it weren't for the French, we wouldn't have won independence from England, so I think we're even!

There is no excuse for labeling an entire country. We don't like it when people do it to us, why do it to them.

Bashing the French is another way of taking the focus off of the real issues.

Last year, I had to go to Paris for work, and one evening in front of the Eiffel Tower, my partner and I ran into a pair of women (who offered to take our picture) who told us they were from Canada. Turns out they really weren't.. they were from the U.S., but were so uncomfortable with telling anyone that, they made up this cover story. This was right when all the drama between the U.S. and the U.N. was going down...

It's a sad state when you feel as though you must lie about where you are from to feel comfortable in a European country... sad indeed.

I love the French, they have good TV and food. Yum.

I was French-bashing before it was cool.

Now that it's being done by total douchebags who know nothing of French history or culture, it's just pathetic.

The only people who have a right to bash the French are those who have actually spent time with French people or in French institutions.

I spent nine years in a French school. I've earned MY right to give my opinion about them, both good things, bad things, and just good-natured ribbing. Assholes like O'Reilly who have watched Pepe Le Peu on TV haven't.

I see making sweeping generalizations about "cowardly French" as being just as asinine- and unfair- as the European stereotype of the fat, stupid self-centered American cowboy.

Well, there has been a pretty major problem with this recently..... Le Pin got way too much support from radicals and anti-Semites (anti-semitism being taken to mean hating Semitic people... arabs and jews).

Shows enough "Le Pin"= Le Pen, and he is the biggest allie of the US since he is to anti Arrab and pro Sharon (a Zionist kind of Nazi), learn and read before you speak. France is the country with most muslims and Jews in EU and the French jews spoke out against Sharon after his ridicoulus call for the F. Jews to come to Israel. (In fact he did this to discredit the EU since they are the only neutral peace partner, the US is not neutral but pro Israel, EU is neutral since it support BOTH to peace, and that is exactly what Sharon doezs not want).

well i for one am sick of it
the french have been our allies since the revolutionary war
they arent our vassals, they have their own national interest to think of.
when we really need them they will be there for us.

France is and was ONE of the biggest allies of the US when it mattered. Who else is : China? Russia?Holland? Who saved the US citizens last year in West Africa? The French foreign Legion!

US conservatives attack the French deliberatly for their own pocket and forget all the good, deliberatly. I never met a French that was pro Saddam, but I met lots that where pro international right and they can't have it when their biggest allie pisses on this right. (in fact that is so un american) (but very fascist, and they had fascism for a few years and can compare..)

Well, I've done that before.... mind you, I was bright enough to proccess it through my liver first!

:D

Hmm, buy something more expensive (if you can efford it :p ) A 300€ Mouton Rotshild is a good starter (and good for the pro Zionist republicans to since the Rothshild family is Jew).

2nd, try the most expensive wine in the world: Romanée Conti ( about 1000€ a bottle in a young year, try Sotheby's as check). I drunk it and of course it does not taste 100 times better then a 10€ Bourgogne but for Americans that believe in the extreme free market I can say that it is you, the consumers that are giving this rare product this absurd price, since it is so good (the nuances are great but as a winelover, I say drink it, do not celler it for the money, wine is given to us to drink).

A Romanée Conti fan and fan of all great wines (Yeah, I know Opus one too but it is overestimated and to oaky for me).

At least the French care about Africa...... Don't see the US doing much of anything there (See Sudan)

At least the French care about Africa...... Don't see the US doing much of anything there (See Sudan)

Don't forget, though, the U.S. is not the world's globocop.

One of my favorite wines only costs 4€, so don't call me snob because I drunk some expensive things. As a wine freak you can not go around France, Italy, Spain, New Zealand and Oregon (Pinot Noir).California is a disapointement (ever tried Coppola's Rubicon wines :mad: )

At least the French care about Africa...... Don't see the US doing much of anything there (See Sudan)

I don't know if there is a big difference between the US and the EU (biggest donnor for Africa) but there is one if you compare only both nations. US spends off course more money then France only.

Hmm, buy something more expensive (if you can efford it :p ) A 300€ Mouton Rotshild is a good starter (and good for the pro Zionist republicans to since the Rothshild family is Jew).

2nd, try the most expensive wine in the world: Romanée Conti ( about 1000€ a bottle in a young year, try Sotheby's as check). I drunk it and of course it does not taste 100 times better then a 10€ Bourgogne but for Americans that believe in the extreme free market I can say that it is you, the consumers that are giving this rare product this absurd price, since it is so good (the nuances are great but as a winelover, I say drink it, do not celler it for the money, wine is given to us to drink).

A Romanée Conti fan and fan of all great wines (Yeah, I know Opus one too but it is overestimated and to oaky for me).

Ummmm, a) I'm not American, b) I DO drink good wine- although I confess I've never had a Romanée Conti, and c) no matter WHAT wine you drink... it will still get processed throught the liver....


Which was kinda the point I was going for....

It IS after all, a rather dumb "protest" to purchase a product in order to waste it. Once you've purchased it - it's rather self-defeating what you do with it as you have already supported France at that point.

Ummmm, a) I'm not American, b) I DO drink good wine- although I confess I've never had a Romanée Conti, and c) no matter WHAT wine you drink... it will still get processed throught the liver....


Which was kinda the point I was going for....

It IS after all, a rather dumb "protest" to purchase a product in order to waste it. Once you've purchased it - it's rather self-defeating what you do with it as you have already supported France at that point.


Indeed, love wine...wine for all and there will be peace (but GOOD wine, all countries welcome).

People ask me: "what is a good wine". I say: "let your tongue decide"!

Uh, sorry, fellas, but I don't think was intended to be a wine thread. ;)

Indeed, love wine...wine for all and there will be peace (but GOOD wine, all countries welcome).

People ask me: "what is a good wine". I say: "let your tongue decide"!
I like Vodka. And beer.

Didn't you know? Hating France makes you more patriotic and a better American?

What I can't stand are the people who say "If it weren't for us, the French would be speaking German and wearing swastikas, so they should kiss our feet". Yeah, if it weren't for the French, we wouldn't have won independence from England, so I think we're even!

There is no excuse for labeling an entire country. We don't like it when people do it to us, why do it to them.


In a parallel universe right now, the Fuehrer is saying "If it weren't for us, the French would be speaking English and wearing Stars and Stripes, so they should be kissing our feet."

Well, there has been a pretty major problem with this recently..... Le Pin got way too much support from radicals and anti-Semites (anti-semitism being taken to mean hating Semitic people... arabs and jews).


um...so did bush.

In a parallel universe right now, the Fuehrer is saying "If it weren't for us, the French would be speaking English and wearing Stars and Stripes, so they should be kissing our feet."
:D Good one. :D

Uh, sorry, fellas, but I don't think was intended to be a wine thread. ;)


Yeah, I know, my fold. But it is easy to bring people together with a good bottle :p

:D Good one. :D

I am not French but I know a good one that makes the people here angry when I say : "Best French invention, The reverse gear on a tank".

Just a joke, I don't mean it, comes from a US millitary forum. But I like the joke.

I am not French but I know a good one that makes the people here angry when I say : "Best French invention, The reverse gear on a tank".

I though that was Italian? "Italian tanks have only two speeds: Stop and Reverse."

Man, the Italians changed sides in WWII and than got kicked around by the Germans. Poor Italians. :(

I'll stop France-bashing when the French stop America-bashing. That is to say, when the Sun explodes.

I'll stop France-bashing when the French stop America-bashing. That is to say, when the Sun explodes.


Alltough I make jokes about the French, you guys started it and are less tolerant :rolleyes: Just hear and read the difference :rolleyes:

I think you left out a key group in your comments about those with something against the French. Not all of us are partisan republicans who back George Bush and consider the man a saint. I for one am an independent voter who can't stand many of Bush's decisions. Granted I am, according to the website politicalcompass.org, an authoritarian with right-wing economic beliefs that fell just left and up from Tony Blair, but that doesn't make my point any less valid. I for one have made comments against France long before I knew who George W. Bush was. I just think the country is a good one to make fun of. (Yes, I do know I just ended a thought with a preposition) It is like a Scotsman calling an Irishman, English, or anyone calling the Polish, dumb. (I am Polish by the way) It is really all in good fun for most of us. Just take that into consideration before you say that anyone who says something against France and Bush-loving France hater. It means that the French are just really easy to make fun of. (Yep, another sentence ended with a preposition)

And for the record, the Frech do suck at war. Napoleon was Corsican, and Joan of Arc was 100 years late and had to get help from God to get the British out. Remember, it that was just a joke in good fun. I have a thousand of them, and more about Poland, Djbouti, any country with -stan in it, Russia, and the Welsh.

Alright, its been a bit since I last logged on but :

@Frisbeeteria :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C3858%2C4639621-103550%2C00.html

A survey published this week in Le Monde showed that while 78% of the French opposed the war on Iraq, 53% of them still hoped the US and Britain would defeat Saddam Hussein. But fully 33% did not want an allied victory and 25% said they were on Iraq's side.


Siljhouettes : Of course anti-war protests don't necessarily equal anti-American protests. But how many spray-painted flags that say "God Less America", Uncle Sam burnings, or others have to go on before it becomes obvious that the two are quite mixed?