NationStates Jolt Archive

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

17. What is Heaven like?

18. What is Hell like?

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

58. Where is Heaven?

59. Where is Hell?

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.

65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.

68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

70. What is sin, exactly?

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?

77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)

78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.

80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.

81. What exactly is faith?

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.

83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?

84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?

85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?

88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.

89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").

90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?

91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?

94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?

96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer.

97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.

98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?

99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.

104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).

105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?

108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?

109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?

111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?

112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?

114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker
(supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.

116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.

117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.

119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood).

120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?

125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?

126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?

127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?

130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?

131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?

132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?

133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?

134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?

135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?

136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?

137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?

138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.

139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?

141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize.

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.

144. What is your definition of the word Christian?

145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?

let me do the work for the Christians. the answer to all questions is "because i believe in God, God is smarter than people, you are a person, therefore God is smarter than you and has all the answers. i am a person, so not smart enough to question God or His will, and i don't have to defend my beliefs to you even though i expect you to tollerate me telling you that you will go to hell for disagreeing with me on the subject of the God who i can't explain or understand."

The 1st one is that God requires a sacrifice of something pure and innocent(up to Jesus this was a lamb or a goat or something like that) Jesus was born without the seed of man, therefore he was sinless. When he was killed his blood was the sacrifice that blotted out our sins for all time

I am not going to force my beliefs upon, nor will i spend time answering any more of you questions, since you wont change your mind.

JESUS IS RISEN!!

The 1st one is that God requires a sacrifice of something pure and innocent(up to Jesus this was a lamb or a goat or something like that) Jesus was born without the seed of man, therefore he was sinless. When he was killed his blood was the sacrifice that blotted out our sins for all time

I am not going to force my beliefs upon, nor will i spend time answering any more of you questions, since you wont change your mind.

JESUS IS RISEN!!

has it ever occured to you people that most of us would willingly change our minds if you could actually answer these questions and defend your views? do you realize how silly you look when you try to take the moral high ground be refusing to examine your own values and claims?

put it to you this way, if you can fully and completely answer these questions and iron out all the inconsistencies above then i will personally convert to your sect TODAY. you have the power to save a human soul today. will you even try? or is Christian compassion as much of an oxymoron as religious reasoning?

Heh, nice list. There are a few I could actually answer myself (even not being Christian), but it's very good. Did you write it out yourself? Many of them are actually things I've always wondered myself but was too lazy to go back through the bible and find the passages.

Its pretty silly to ask people to justify things like the Inquisition or Witch Trials considering almost all (and I believe almost all of the clergy of the various sects) have repudiated them as a product of something 600 years ago. Trying to associate those things with modern-day Christianity would be like associating current-day Germans with the Nazis, it just dosen't make sense.

put it to you this way, if you can fully and completely answer these questions and iron out all the inconsistencies above then i will personally convert to your sect TODAY. you have the power to save a human soul today. will you even try? or is Christian compassion as much of an oxymoron as religious reasoning?
I'm pretty sure that he thinks he dosen't want to read 147 copy-and-pasted "questions" to Christianity that have probably all been answered in books or online before.

I am not going to force my beliefs upon, nor will i spend time answering any more of you questions, since you wont change your mind.


Well, then you're clearly not Christian, hence, I have no need of your answers to the questions.

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?

If you had kept to it like 30 or so... perhaps a line by line answer.

But for this one I would refer you to Douglas Adams in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

Well, then you're clearly not Christian, hence, I have no need of your answers to the questions.

lol and you base your opinion he's 'clearly not Christian' on what?

I'm pretty sure that he thinks he dosen't want to read 147 copy-and-pasted "questions" to Christianity that have probably all been answered in books or online before.

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 6 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"

lol and you base your opinion he's 'clearly not Christian' on what?

Because a Christian would take the opportunity to save a peron's soul very seriously and make every effort to answer legitamitely asked questions.

I'm pretty sure that he thinks he dosen't want to read 147 copy-and-pasted "questions" to Christianity that have probably all been answered in books or online before.
actually, i have spent 4 years of college studying these and other questions about religion, even having Eli Weisel for an advisor at one point. i've yet to find answers that meet basic criterion of internal consistency and logical stability.

unlike many people seem to think, i am non-Christian because i find the reasoning flawed, rather than because i hate Christians or have some emotional stake in remaining non-Christian. if one single Christian could refute these problems and clear up the muddle i would become Christian, since they would have established a solid foundation for my belief.

it also bothers me how apathetic Christians are about this sort of thing. i have answered far more than 147 questions about my belief system, both on this forum and in other places, because it is very important to me and i care enough about other people to want to show them more of what i think the best life-philosophy is. Christians very often seem content to not know, to embrace the total absurdity and contradiction of their views, and to just take other people's word for the fact that it'll all be fixed in heaven. that apathy and willful ignorance is one of the prime things that makes me not want to be a Christian, since i think that sort of behavior is unworthy of any human being with a pulse. i don't think any Creator would be proud of that kind of thing, and if the Christian God will bring that sort of person into His heaven then i would far rather burn in a lake of fire then spend eternity with them.

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 2 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"
I don't know.

I remember when I was confirmed, everyone could go to the priest and ask any questions they wanted about faith right then. And in my local church, I can go to a faith group (or whatever they're called) or I can meet with the priest and ask him. So they don't seem to be afraid of answering questions where I live.

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 2 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"

Perhaps they're busy people and don't really have time to answer 147 questions (a lot of which they'd probably have to research) from someone anonymous person.

Perhaps they're busy people and don't really have time to answer 147 questions (a lot of which they'd probably have to research) from someone anonymous person.

It wasn't anonymous ... my name, my reason for asking, and my return address was included with the letter I sent out.

OK then i will take a crack at as many of these as i can(remember i dont know as much about the Bible as i would like too)

18. What is Hell like?
Lake of Burning Sulfur as mentioned in Revelation 20:14-15

17. What is Heaven like?
Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Revelation 21:11
Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Revelation 21:13
On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Revelation 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Revelation 21:15
And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

Revelation 21:16
And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

Revelation 21:17
And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Revelation 21:18
And the building of the wall of it was [of] jasper: and the city [was] pure gold, like unto clear glass.

Revelation 21:19
And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

Revelation 21:20
The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

Revelation 21:21
And the twelve gates [were] twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city [was] pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Revelation 21:22
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Revelation 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

Revelation 21:24
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Revelation 21:25
And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Revelation 21:26
And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:1
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:3
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Revelation 22:4
And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:5
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.



144. What is your definition of the word Christian?
I dont usually refer to myself as Christian, I go by what the ealier Church called themselves, The way or followers of the Way, since Jesus said he is hte way the truth and the light, No one gets to the Father except through him.

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?
Its not that it was an apple, its that God told them not to eat it and they disobeyed Him

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?
The sacrifce of innoncent blood, Imagine this. You are in a street...a big truck comes speeding down the road, and someone knocks you out of the way,and takes the full impact of the truck for you. That is what Jesus did, he took the full impact of Gods anger about our sin for us.



I would answer more, but i have to get going(i have to get to work in a little bit)

Dude you are so right. I think that most Christians will reach about #20 go "Ahhhh!" and hit the backspace key at high speed. I am gonna C&P those Qs into a Word file they are so good...

Keruvalia,

It is evident that a lot of effort has gone into these questions, but a full response to each point is a little much to ask. It would be easy to spend a day fully responding to your list.

If you fancy breaking down your main points into... bitesize chunks, I'll have a crack at answering them for you.

Damn thats a lot of questions. Might I suggest speaking with some church leaders etc.?

The whole adam and eve thing was a test and to allow for freedom the freedom for them to choose good or evil freedom of choice, free will.

I do not agree with your accussations that slavery is backed up by the bible, it can be and has been for instance by the southerners of american history used to back up slavery but at the same time was used by others to fight slavery, it depends on one's interpretation.

Same with God allowing you to follow either he or satan but of course you can not be let to go free with out punishment or suffering consequences of your choice(s) this makes sense thus if you are a sinful, non repentent believer you will burn. There are many who believe in God it is pretty damn hard not to really but even satan believes in him for he is real but believing in his existence does not get you into heaven but following his teachings and repenting of your sins etc. is what will get you to heaven. Hell I have read of and see people have linked you to but heaven I have not.

I would answer more, but i have to get going(i have to get to work in a little bit)

You're doing very well. I never expected anyone to answer them all at once. Bits and pieces will do fine.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

Actually I belive its a world but those are just small nuances. Heavenly Father's first born not only son at all, also only said directly by him. Please call Heavenly father his name anmd not the general name or you'll confuse him with the others of the council. He was the perfect son, he had no blemishes of sin, he was faithful, merciful, justful, obedient, kind, and many other characteristics that Heavenly Father has and wishes us to act like. He was like unto a child. But Long explaination:
It was decided in the Preexistance of eartth. We were all in the Celestrial Kingdom, there was a council and discussion over Father's new gift. A life on earth. We could expereince a body. But there was a discussion of how to make sure we returned. The Devil said send him, he would gain all the glory for Father, and make sure not one was left.
Jesus's said Father send me, I will give them a choice, give them free will. If they wish to return we will show them the way so we not impose ourserlves on those that do not wish it. Father choose Jesus and because this it was his responsibility to keep the plan on track.
When Satan tried to disrupt the process (many times), Jesus had to fix it. The only to fix the problem of sin was for a enternal sacrifice one that would be resolve any who asked of forgiveness with eral intent. But he was the only one innocent enough. In the old days they sacrificed a unblemished calf.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

Well, yes, its in the bible. Moses was there because he knew not Christ. But Jesus's sacrifice did the deed, and they were freed. If you didn't know Christ in past you had to go to Spirit Prison, not Outer Darkness as its true name is called. But remember Christ said, I am the only way to my Father. However, after the sacrifice you may attatin salvation if you knew not of him, instead you shall be told of him in Paradise to make up for your lack on earth. Think of it as a make up quiz lol


3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

I am neither, we are not a protestant, we are the Reformation of the Ancient Church that Jesus created on earth. We fought FOR the native Americans, best freinds with most actually. They are mostly the tribes of Ephraim, one the 12 tribes of Isreal. However a few of them are desendants from the people from the Tower of Babel, some came over sea because they couldn't understand others and too hard there. The Catholic might not admit it but the Crusades and Inquisition were over power and territory not Heavenly Father's wishes. Not that the Catholic are a bad peoplw just a few bad leaders. If Protestatants did indeed kill Native Americans I do hope Heavenly Father shows them mercy for I'm hoping they know not what they have done.



4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

We didn't :). We didn't kill because of religion we killed because illegal mobs tried to force us from our homes in Missiouri, in a couple other places too many to count. However, there is a sad account we had. Some non people of our church attacked us in a community and since we were freinds with indian nations, one ally group atacked and slaughtered the attackers. We should have stopped them, but we didn't do it. Its one bad blot in our church.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

Again, I explained

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

There isd also the Doctrine and Covenants, the Book of Mormon, and the Pearl of Great Price.
But since you are discounting me, I'll answer that later.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

He was testing her faith to see if she really believed. Good try, give me another one.


8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

Cor talks about each one needing the other and supporting. what wrong? Tim doesn't mention woman...
i'll answer rest later, I got stuff to do today.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

I'll first state that I view the Bible as a flawed document with many good parts. Thus, the answer to all of your "the Bible says we should be anti-women/homosexuals/blablabla" is that these passages were written by human beings who *thought* they knew what God wanted. I also will ignore any questions that are clearly inflammatory and have nothing to do with Christianity. Finally, I have no specific "sect" of Christianity, so I can ignore those too.

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

Heaven is to be in the presence of God eternally, not a "land of happiness" and fluffy clouds. Anyways, Christ died to demonstrate God's love to the people. Up until then, people followed God out of a fear of punishment, but Christ came to demonstrate God's love. As he said, no greater love can a man show than to lay down his life for his friends.

Granted, this is an Abelardian view of atonement, and thus heretical according to the Catholic Church, which follows the Anselmian view of antonement.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

Hell, like heaven is not a "place." It is separation from God. As for whether or not everyone who died before Jesus being eternally separated, no. Those who loved God and made their best efforts to follow did not.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

This is clearly inflammatory as everyone knows that none of these things can be justified. These were human beings doing things that they thought were God's will, but in fact were not.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

You don't have to believe anything. I believe because I have felt God working in my life. I will share that with you, and if you feel the same and choose to believe, great.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

What does this passage have to do with racism? She was Greek, sure, but he cast out the demon.

11. If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

Sure, if he wanted to make us all automotons with no free will. Would you prefer a God who forces you to remain in God's presence for eternity by making it so that you cannot do so?

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

Understand again that Hell refers to eternal separation from God. To those who feel love for God, this would be eternal, unbearable torture. The rest is flavor text.

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

I see no inherent contradiction.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

Because they were epilepsy and schizophrenia. Either way, when "casting out demons," is it hard to imagine that Christ was simply getting rid of the ailment causing the actions?

19. Explain why original sin exists.

It doesn't. This is simply something that Augustine came up with and the Catholic Church adopted.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

"Soon" is a relative term.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

I've seen convincing proof of things they would have viewed as miracles.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

I've never read that Judas was forced to betray Jesus.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

Um, I never said that.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

People were wandering around spreading the Gospel, rather than writing. Remember that writing was not as easy as it is now - you couldn't carry your laptop around with you and you pretty much only had daylight hours (when you usually had other things to do) to do anything.

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

Honestly don't know. Care to enlighten?

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

Jesus was not anti-gentile. And neither of those passages are anti-sex.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

Y'shua I believe.

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

I wouldn't believe in any religion that was completely different from every other religion out there. To say that every religion is completely wrong, but mine is completely right would be pretty crazy.

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

I don't.

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

There is a difference between spreading the Gospel and "pushing your beliefs on others." I can spread the Gospel by telling others of my religious beliefs. If they choose not to agree with me, or to ask that I stop talking - no big deal, that is their choice.

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

I've never spread any such thing.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

In order to be the vessel of atonement, he had to be divine. It was God demonstrating God's love. One who was not divine could not do this. If you want an essay on it, I'll send it to you, but I doubt you do.

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

Considering that, #48, you misinterpret turn the other cheek, I don't know that it was taken from Buddhism. As for why Jesus was a great thinker, etc -that's a silly question. MLK Jr. was a great man, but his ideas were drawn from or paralleled in other sources.

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

Turn the other cheek is an admonishment to use passive resistance, not a "sit down and take it." Basically, don't hit back, but don't allow yourself to be hit either.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

I'm not proselytizing. I am answering questions, last time I checked. But my motive was to clear up a few things.

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

Most believe that the Jews asked the Jesus be put to death. The fact that it was actually the Romans who did it is not contested by rational Christians.

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.

I don't believe so. But if you would like an answer, pray and meditate on it.

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

"No greater love hath man, than to lay down his life for his friends."


Sorry, got other things to do for now, maybe I'll come back later.

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

A(nswer): Before his sacrifice, we had to sacrifice somthing pure (newborn lamb usually). He was a sinless man, so his sacrifice counted for everyone.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

A: No, but in order to go to heaven and be forgiven, you needed to make a sacrifice periodically.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

I will answer the Protestant version: Because we were stupid at the time. We admit our mistake. Ask any of us and we will plead for forgiveness.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

A: Do you see us doing that any more? I haven't noticed. Maybe I'm wrong. We ask for forgiveness.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

A: Those were unstable times. We have stopped doing that now.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

A: He is not all good. Think Ying and Yang. To know good, you must know evil. Children somtimes deserve a beating from their loving mother when they do wrong.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

A: I do not see how driving a demon from a Greek woman's child makes Jesus racist. Do you?

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

A: Because the Bible, while inspired by God, was recorded by men with their own opinions. We do not support oppression anymore.

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

A: Same answer as before.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

A: They should not.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

A: Alas, no he could not. Bringing everyone to Heaven would be the equivalent of a new Earth. Life is meant to root out the good from the bad.

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

A: Any sin can be forgiven with work. However, if you sin again everytime you are forgiven, that is not honoring the Word of God.

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

A: As I said earlier, somtimes children need a beating from their loving parents to keep them in line.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

A: There probably were no demons, Jesus just cured mental illness, which at the time, was thought to be demons.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

A: Injurys effect the soul too, do they not?

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

A: If you were a good person, you would not have loved ones in Hell. They would either be with you in Heaven, or you would be with them in Hell.

17. What is Heaven like?

A: Heaven is described in Revelations. Read it.

18. What is Hell like?

A: A burning lake of sulfur, which is the second death.

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

58. Where is Heaven?

59. Where is Hell?

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.

65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.

68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

70. What is sin, exactly?

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?

77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)

78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.

80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.

81. What exactly is faith?

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.

83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?

84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?

85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?

88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.

89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").

90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?

91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?

94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?

96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer.

97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.

98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?

99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.

104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).

105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?

108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?

109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?

111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?

112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?

114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker
(supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.

116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.

117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.

119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood).

120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?

125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?

126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?

127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?

130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?

131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?

132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?

133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?

134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?

135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?

136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?

137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?

138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.

139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?

141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize.

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.

144. What is your definition of the word Christian?

145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?


Ill answer more later.

The 1st one is that God requires a sacrifice of something pure and innocent(up to Jesus this was a lamb or a goat or something like that)
And that still held in jesus' time. Jesus was not a valid sacrifice. He was not an unblemished non cud chewing cloven-hooved animal.

You'd do well to actually read your book, rather than just spew what your preacher tells you.

i can't be sure about the other sects of Christianity but i know from personal experience with going to a Roman Catholic school that the Catholic Church has the answers to all of these questions. I would stop by your local Catholic bookstore and ask them for a book that could answer your questions for you. i could answer a few of them off the top of my head but i'm not a theologic scholar. if you refuse to buy a book to find the answers to these questions, a Catholic priest could answer them for you, of that i am absolutely certain.
good luck in finding faith. it makes all the difference in the world let me tell you.

From a wildly flip-flopping Deist/Atheist. I figure that I'm not a Christian but I might as well answer, it might help me sort my beliefs.

ASSUMING GOD EXISTS
1) No reason, this was invented by humans to satisfy their need for eternal life. There is no afterlife.
2) There is no hell.
3) The inquisition was committed by human beings who claimed divine righteousness. No justification was needed, it was wrong.
4) To my knowledge, Atheists and/or Deists never killed anyone for religion (aside from some very rare cases), but, "No justification, it was wrong."
5) See 4
6) God is not all good, God is both good and evil at the same time and also amoral if he does exist. The All-Good God was invented by human beings to attempt to comfort themselves with a divine friend who coddles them and kills their enemies.
7) The supposedly real figure called Jesus was a product of the times.
8) Paul is a product of the times, and Women were not equal then. No justification is nescessary, Paul was not impowered by God nor would God impower anyone for the matter.
9) Slavery was a practice that was accepted in the time period we are talking about, and the bible was written by men. It's not that hard to see what happens there.
10) See 9 with certain verbal changes.
11) There is no hell.
12) There is no hell.
13) God if he exists can be neither just nor merciful as he does not interfere in the world.
14) They didn't know better.
15) There is no soul.
16) There is no heaven or hell.
17) There is no hell.
18) There is no heaven.
19) There is no original sin, there were no Adam and Eve.
20) Baptism does nothing but get you wet.
21) God does not interfere with the universe. There was no Adam and Eve, nor the Tree of Knowledge. This question is inapplicable.
22) No reason at all except that the Church and the earlier leaders wanted to limit pleasure to keep their populace in line
23) There will be no divine end to the world, the supposed figure of Jesus was mistaken like all men.
24) Because that wwas not anything to do with God. If Jesus existed, he was a cult leader and reformer to Christianity.
25) Because, like all fictional accounts, the writers played with it.
26) Not applicable
27) God is neither kind nor gentile in the human sense of the word, nor would he ever directly intervene. Thus, his responsibility, if any, is null for animals.
28) See 27.
29) There is no hell, God does not threaten, God does not intervene with world affairs.
30) There is no sin.
31) There is no savior, Jesus if he died wa
32) There is no hell or savior, and Judas if he existed d
33) We shouldn't.
34) God doesn't care, nor is that book related to him any more than the world is related to a atlas of a flat world.
35) Prayer does nothing, Magic does nothing. Short of wasting breath, of course.
36) Because he was just a man.
37) We shouldn't.
38) Why bother? Christ has no meaning to me.
39) That needs no explanation, Jesus was not affiliated with God.
40) Because anyone can call themselves a Prince of Peace.
41) Why bother? His name in Hebrew has as much meaning as the same Willian J. Clinton in Hebrew.
42) Because he is a myth, too.
43) That is a Christian viewpoint, irrelated to God.
44) God does not care. If you want to be an ***hole and push your views on others, or if you want to just sit down and let everyone else believe what you want, it's your life.
45) That was how they converted, in no way was that ever God-Approved.
46) He was not divine. I'm not, btu I'm answering the survey anyway.
47) Jesus was not real and/or not divine, his words have as much meaning as any other philosopher. Even if he was a plagarist.
48) See 47.
49) For conversion. No.
50) God is not just or merciful in the human sense of the word.
51) If it is not just a myth, the Old Testament was not perpitrated by God.
52) See 51.
53) See 51.
54) There is no sin.
55) No. There is no hell. The bible is just a book, I could quote the "His Dark Materials" series from Phillip Pullman and justify just as well.
56) No. There si no hell. The bible is just a book.
57) Answering a servey you posted.
58) There is no heaven.
59) There is no hell.
60) There is no heaven or hell. We are not special.
61) There is no Satan, there is no soul.
62) See 60.
63) No. Nothing is perfect.
64) There is no soul.
65) There is no Satan.
66) Because they can exploit others.
67) Because they do not exploit others.
68) Neither. God will not directly end Earth and/or the Universe, nor is there a soul.
69) God does not intervene, even for that. God is beyond caring, I would assume.
70) There is no sin, it is a human construct to make worshippers feel guilty and stay within the power of the religion.
71) There is no Jesus, and if there was he never killed a Fig Tree using only words.
72) Because Christians are fallible and do not speak for God.
73) God did not create man directly. Nothing is perfect. There is no divine punishment. No, for the reasons just stated.
74) We were not created, nor does God have a likeness in the physical sense.
75) Ther is no right and wrong. In this case it depends upon the laws. Also, sacrificing animals to God(s) do nothing.
76) He doesn't. Yes.
77) He didn't. It is debatable whether my God even caused anything.
78) No.
79) No. Revelations is a myth meant to frighten worshippers into belief.
80) No. The New Testament is not the end all, be all of morality.
81) Belief in something that has no objective proof.
82) All of it, because it is just a book.
83) There is no Satan, he didn't. No. There is no Divine Punishment.
84) Internal Inconsistancy is the hallmark of a twisted account.
85) There is no heaven.
86) Irrelevant, Christ was no affiliated with God. If he had not died, he would have continued to spread Christianity in an altered form, no doubt (Pauline church would not exist...)
87) It never happened. It is likely there was no Christ, and it is certain there is no Satan.
88) It should be, religious freedom is a wonderful thing.
89) Internal Inconsistancy is the hallmark of a twisted account. Matthew's attribution also makes it sound very likely that Christ never planned to get nailed to a cross.
90) Why not? He is not strictly affiliated with God any more than any other worshipper, and could keep multiple Gods if he liked.
91) No. The image of a shepard gives the feeling that God either guides or destroys his flock, whereas he does not intervene in the unvierse.
92) The Big Bang has scientific proof, the idea that my God created the universe has none. Though I like to attribute the start of the Big Bang to him.
93) There is no hell. God is not omnipresent in the sense of the word, but rather _is_ in everything. Omnipotence is irrelevant to a God that does not act on the universe.
94) Yes, but the Garden of Eden is just a myth and should not be reguarded as the word of God.
95) Because a little bit of paranoia and opposition goes a long way to help most established religions.
96) God is beyond gender because gender is physical. There is no specific "manifestation" of God, nor does he "manifest" himself at all.
97) Yes. Christianity is a very, very light form of Polytheism with the Trinity, the Saints, and the Virgin Mary. However, its followers still claim it is Monotheistic, so the idea of it being Polytheism is still a very alien concept to most.
98) No (I skimmed it and skipped chapters like Psalms and some Prophets). I can't. Yes. Yes.
99) Someone got lazy while writing it.
100) There is no hell.
101) Not applicable.
102) He did nothing for you.
103) Yes, but it never happened. Yes. Rape is wrong because it is a violation of another person, in addition to all the numerous diseases it can transmit, and the serious physical and mental trauma it causes. Plus more.
104) It was not foretold. He did not. He was not. Because he didn't want to die.
105) I don't know.
106) No.
107) Yes. But he never did.
108) Gender is a nonissue except for physical beings. Note that spanish words also have gender and my toaster is not a female either.
109) It is a fictional story meant for interpretation, not literalism.
110) Yes. Yes.
111) Meh. Sin at birth is a concept used to keep worshippers in line.
112) We don't, and if we did we would not use the bible.
113) Yes
114) Yes
115) Ignore it. First off, God would not intervene in the world and give orders, but if he did, morality is much more important. Most moralities including not killing as a part.
116) 666 is just any other number, but it is the name of one of the roman emperors if you take his name in hebrew and add up the digits represented by the letters.
117) God didn't do anything of the sort.
118) That is a very good question...
119) Yes.
120) No, plagarism is common in religions.
121) Repressed urges.
122) Nothing.
123) He doesn't. No.
124) There is no soul or sin.
125) Yes, it is. But it was wirtten thousands of years ago and doesn't apply.
126) because he never did.
127) God never did any of those things. God never speaks to anyone, so any quote of him is written by man and thus is suspect.
128) Who knows? Why would eating shellfish also cause death?
129) It doesn't.
130) Fictional accounts often differ from another fictional account.
131) Matthew made what we now call a "typo".
132) Matthew made it up to give credence to Jesus.
133) Matthew likely didn't read the prophecy carefully enough when writing the Gospels, the others did.
134) A young woman can be a virgin. Regardless, Jesus was not born to a virgin, nor are there angels.
135) Yes. Yes. Yes.
136) It isn't forfilled.
137) Matthew makes a lot of errors in the NT, this is probably another.
138) Too many to count if I can use Google and my copies of the bible. Off the top of my head, none.
139) There is no sin.
140) No, there is no evidence of God because we have not seen any evidence. It is as simple as that.
141) There is no criticism for an argument for a Deist God, because he cannot be proven. There is no proof of God or formal arguments that can prove him, it is a matter of faith.
142) The burden of proof- if God exists, you must prove it since I cannot prove a negative. My criticism is simple- God cannot be proven so any attempt is futile. Any belief in God is simple faith.
143) Government is annoying but nescessary. I have read Paul's letter. I still think the same. The bible does not need to reconcile with my position, since it is just a document meant to justify the existance of a God and is not the end all, be all of truth.
144) One who believes in Jesus Christ and God of some sort. Yes, this also includes Islam and the Church of LDS, among others, but it is as simple a definition as will fit without being too constraining.
145) Repressed urges.
146) There is no reason to be saved, nor will accepting Jesus get you anything. Turning away will simply cause you to turn away from Jesus' principles.
147) There is no reason to be saved, there is no afterlife. The bible is just a book, it does not have to be included.

Done!

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 6 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"
I will start writing the answers as soon as I get home, I would before work but seeing that this is a true inquization ((mispelled, I know, I am only mortal)) it will take much time that currently I don't have. I don't expect anyont to even care about the answers if I do send them but I must try since you asked.

Ok.. I am going to be as nice as possible and considering the fact that blasphemy is unforgivable and angers me to the point where I would like no more then to see the wrath of God answer those words for you. Though I feel a bit generous today so I thought I might shine a little light on the matter for you who ask these questions in a pursuit to prove God to be false. And those who answer these questions with atheists views. These questions you have asked have all been answered for you. It is not our responsibility to answer them for you, as I am not part of the clergy. I am not fit to do so. And if you feel these questions have not been answered look at your faith. Coming from a first hand account of Christian these doubts you have had are all answered with out asking when you are saved. If you try to prove or disprove Christianity through science you may want to change your subject. It is about Faith. And if you don't have faith in God then you have no right to ask questions about him. You have no right to try to disprove him to others. Your denial is your own damnation. Keep it that way.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

Because God has always required a sacrifice. Up until then it had been a lamb or some other form of livestock, with one notable exception Abrahams son.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

Yes. Prior to Jesus, the world was in a state of law, after Jesus a state of grace. Jews were required to follow the Law of God.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

All of the atrocities performed in the name of religion are just that... atrocities. But they are not God's fault. They are man's. Man has always, and will always use whatever means available to hold power over other people. Regardless of what name they commit these atrocities in. Free will is a bitch.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

See #3

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

See #3

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

You use these passages to show "evil morality" but you dont define what you see as evil. Isaiah 30:32 speaks of God punishing Assyria. Not evil, unless you see punishment as evil. Luke 14:26 speaks of the cost of being a disciple of Jesus. He states that one has to forsake everything else, even ones own life before one can be a disciple to Jesus. Numbers 31:17-18 speaks of the aftermath of a war with the Midianites. The Midianites, "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD" (Numbers 31:16). Matthew 10:34 again speaks of the cost of being a disciple to Jesus. He first says that you must love Jesus first... then love all else. Amos 3:6 Disasters, while devistating are not inherantly evil. Deuteronomy 18:8 et al. Again, you have taken passages and decried them as evil morality, but as your broad definition.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

In what way does this passage "clearly" show Jesus as a racist? Before I can defend/explain you must state why you believe this


More to come when I have the time.

well gee a list of 147 questions (some important enough to be the basis of a doctorate in theology) crosses a ministers desk and he doesnt take the time to answer them. go figure

to expect theologically sophisticated answers from the members of nations states is just.. well.. silly

im sure you are very proud of your list. but what is the point of challenging people here with the answers?

the answers to each and every question exist. the church didnt just pop into existance. it has been the home of big thinkers for the last 2000 years. men and women who are smarter and more spiritual than you or i will ever be.

if you really want to know the answers, go to the closest catholic university and make an appointment to talk to one of the jesuit theology professors.

if he likes you and finds you sincere, he will be able to give you reasonable answers to each and every question, even those that dont pertain to the catholic church. he will be able to answer certain questions from both the catholic and the protestant view (and maybe even the mormon view)

now im not saying that you can ONLY get answers from a catholic university, im pretty sure that many denominations run excellent seminaries where the professors could do an equally good job. ( im also not saying that you will AGREE with the answers) im saying that i know that you can get answers to these questions and hundreds more that havent occurred to you yet from a jesuit professor of theology

1. Explain why God's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

John 3
2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

1 Peter 1

22Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.[1] 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

John 14

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


I was actually planning to go thru these one at a time and offer biblical answers, but the entire thread has quickly degenerated into other "believers" offering up personal insights and their denominational creeds rather than actually answering the questions based on the Bible. Rather than arguing with a bunch of athiests and alternative faiths, I'll just point out something to the original poster... Your questions, while some of which are rhetorical and unanswerable by mere humans, do show some interest in gaining knowledge. If you truly wrote that list yourself, rather than just copied from someone else, then at least you are showing more interest than so-called believers who do nothing rather than use their religion, not their spirituality, for a crutch and declare themselves as "saved" simply because they're doing what mommy & daddy told them to. Several great Christians in the bible at times questioned God and although God eventually put them in their place, at least they were interested enough and possessed enough self-interest to attempt to learn something on their own without assuming their "birthright to salvation", if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I won't bother with answering the questions in this forum, although I do plan to do them on my own simply for a chance to study.

Take care-

James 4:7

Perhaps they're busy people and don't really have time to answer 147 questions (a lot of which they'd probably have to research) from someone anonymous person.

why on earth would they need to research these questions? are you saying Christians would make a decision about something as important as the possible existence of God without fully examining the situation? are you saying people would be Christian without even having probed the book they are told is the Word of God? why would they not have fully explored these questions when they decided to be Christian? this is, after all, their own scripture and their own theory of God...it's not like they are being asked questions about some other person's religion. shouldn't a Christian be an authority on his faith, if he truly has put serious thought and consideration into it?

Anyway, I won't bother with answering the questions in this forum, although I do plan to do them on my own simply for a chance to study.


I wouldn't ask for anything less. Spiritual intelligence is probably more important in the end than scientific knowledge.

However, I do appreciate everyone's effort to answer - regardless of the source of their answers. I am enjoying the reading. :)

well gee a list of 147 questions (some important enough to be the basis of a doctorate in theology) crosses a ministers desk and he doesnt take the time to answer them. go figure

to expect theologically sophisticated answers from the members of nations states is just.. well.. silly

im sure you are very proud of your list. but what is the point of challenging people here with the answers?

the answers to each and every question exist. the church didnt just pop into existance. it has been the home of big thinkers for the last 2000 years. men and women who are smarter and more spiritual than you or i will ever be.

if you really want to know the answers, go to the closest catholic university and make an appointment to talk to one of the jesuit theology professors.

if he likes you and finds you sincere, he will be able to give you reasonable answers to each and every question, even those that dont pertain to the catholic church. he will be able to answer certain questions from both the catholic and the protestant view (and maybe even the mormon view)

now im not saying that you can ONLY get answers from a catholic university, im pretty sure that many denominations run excellent seminaries where the professors could do an equally good job. ( im also not saying that you will AGREE with the answers) im saying that i know that you can get answers to these questions and hundreds more that havent occurred to you yet from a jesuit professor of theology
ahh, i see...the Church was built by people better than us, so we shouldn't question or ask that anything be explained. we should just accept that they had their reasons and we are too stupid to understand them.

and no Christian should have to answer basic questions about their faith. they shouldn't be expected to know the answers, even. only professors or professional theologians should ask or answer these questions, and the average person should be grateful if one of those learned persons "like them and finds them sincere." nobody unlikeable should receive answers, and such a person has no right to expect that a believer respond to them.

do believers really have this cavalier an attitude about religion? i think it's funny that i, an agnostic, clearly take religion and God's potential existence more seriously than you say believers do. i think that nobody should make a decision about belief lightly, and they should only choose a faith (or lack of faith) after fully considering all options, pitfalls, problems, and benefits.

i don't see why you think it is admirable for Christians to be willfully ignorant of their own faith, or why you think it is unreasonable for Christians to be able to explain some of the apparent glaring flaws in their own scriptures. if they can't answer these, why do they believe? do they really just say, "aw, who cares? i'm sure the priest is telling the truth, so i'll just take his word for it. it's not like God is important enough for me to try to understand how best to follow Him or serve Him...i'll just go with whatever religion i was raised to and ignore any questions that come to mind. i'm too stupid to understand the answers anyway."

i don't let anybody tell me what to believe, and i think it would be dishonest and lazy for me to have my life philosophy spoon fed to me just because i didn't want to take the time to think about it. instead of spending an hour or two each Sunday listening to somebody read their favorite Bible verses to you, why not read the Bible yourself? discuss problems in the Bible with people of all faiths, to test the scriptures and see if you find them solid enough to maintain a belief in them. show that you respect yourself and your religion enough to use your brain, instead of being just another lazy slug who makes religion into a matter of habit rather than a living force of the human mind.

well gee a list of 147 questions (some important enough to be the basis of a doctorate in theology) crosses a ministers desk and he doesnt take the time to answer them. go figure

to expect theologically sophisticated answers from the members of nations states is just.. well.. silly

im sure you are very proud of your list. but what is the point of challenging people here with the answers?

the answers to each and every question exist. the church didnt just pop into existance. it has been the home of big thinkers for the last 2000 years. men and women who are smarter and more spiritual than you or i will ever be.

if you really want to know the answers, go to the closest catholic university and make an appointment to talk to one of the jesuit theology professors.

if he likes you and finds you sincere, he will be able to give you reasonable answers to each and every question, even those that dont pertain to the catholic church. he will be able to answer certain questions from both the catholic and the protestant view (and maybe even the mormon view)

now im not saying that you can ONLY get answers from a catholic university, im pretty sure that many denominations run excellent seminaries where the professors could do an equally good job. ( im also not saying that you will AGREE with the answers) im saying that i know that you can get answers to these questions and hundreds more that havent occurred to you yet from a jesuit professor of theology

To an extent I agree with your answer. I go to a Jesuit University, not for the religious teachings but because it's a good school.
As for your comments about a Jesuit being able to answer the 147 Questions that is not necessarily true: I have taken many a theology course and instead of finding conclusive answers we are encouraged to question and still question the evidence that is out there...yes, perhaps in anticipation of writing a Master's thesis.

To Mr. Ms/ Mrs/ 147 Questions:

If you want the bland "blind faith answer" then yeah, go ask a priest but if you want real in depth answers take some classes.
I am a Catholic (non-practicing) and I have asked many of the same 147 Questions during class and of priests. I am not content with all the answers I recieve, however if Mr./ Ms/Mrs 147 Questions wants the answers that I get from my profs and religious then I will attempt to answer them.
But first, I am going to copy them to a word processing program so I can devote my time and energy to each question. This is not to convince you, Mr./Ms./Mrs. 147 Questions. I find your questions challenging and right on target.
Now let me go get my bible and all my papers and class notes and I'll get back to you.

I wouldn't ask for anything less. Spiritual intelligence is probably more important in the end than scientific knowledge.

However, I do appreciate everyone's effort to answer - regardless of the source of their answers. I am enjoying the reading. :)

I'm finished (see above)- I hope mine is especially entertaining because it was answered by someone who doesn't even apply to the questions.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

17. What is Heaven like?

18. What is Hell like?

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

58. Where is Heaven?

59. Where is Hell?

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.

65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.

68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

70. What is sin, exactly?

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?

77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)

78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.

80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.

81. What exactly is faith?

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.

83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?

84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?

85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?

88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.

89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").

90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?

91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?

94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?

96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer.

97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.

98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?

99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.

104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).

105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?

108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?

109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?

111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?

112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?

114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker
(supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.

116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.

117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.

119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood).

120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?

125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?

126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?

127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?

130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?

131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?

132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?

133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?

134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?

135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?

136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?

137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?

138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.

139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?

141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize.

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.

144. What is your definition of the word Christian?

145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?

Each of your 147 questions has a reasonable answer, but I would suggest breaking your post down into pieces so that you don't get an essay in response. I frankly got bored sometime around #15 and don't feel like writing a book in response, particularly when someone already has;
Mere Christianity (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060652926/qid=1091903487/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-6428784-4684620?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
. Don't be afraid to read it, unless you are afraid of having your questions answered.

If you are serious about getting these questions answered then I would suggest you read the book I linked - It is less than $9. Afterwords post your questions, maybe in groups of five to ten, and we can have a good conversation.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

...[snippity do da]...

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?


Longest post ever. Congratulations.

Are you really looking for answers or are you just looking to piss off some hardcore Southerner Chritstians?

Longest post ever. Congratulations.

Weeee!

Are you really looking for answers or are you just looking to piss off some hardcore Southerner Chritstians?

I never ask questions unless I want answers. I promise.

I frankly got bored sometime around #15


And here I thought patience was a virtue ...

And here I thought patience was a virtue ...
Maybe, but luckily it is not compulsory. Sometimes I just have other things to do. I see no point of being your educator, especially wwhen there is such a quality source available. No point in reinventing the wheel.

wow, 147 questions. i will tell you that it took my theology teacher about a year to answer all of these questions. dont think that just because you dont get a response the answers dont exist. 147.....i could probably answer 130 of those off the top of my head but it would take hours to explain them all, hours which im not about to spend doing because at the end of which you could jsut be like...oh, i dont beleive that...and i got screwed out of hours of my life ill never get back. these questions have all been answered by theologians liek thomas aquainas throughout the centuries. the Church doesnt expect you to know every answer so therefore they expect that youll believe on faith alone. and if you really want to learn about Chritianity and you are as curious as you say you are take some college coarses on theology or christianity. i will tell you that after my theology coarase, which was on christianity, my faith has actually increased and most of my questions were answered.

i will answer one questin for you becaue if 146 other ppl answered one question wed be done in no time....

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

you must remember that the story of adam and eve is jsut symbolism, and should not be taken at face value. the story is more about the fact that God created man in the very begining. as for the forbidden fruit, God told adam directly that they should not eat from it else they be punished. that is free will which God gave humanity and adam and eve disobeyed God of their own will and accepted the known punishment. adn there is nothing bad about eating of the fruit, it isjsut that God told them directly not to do it, but they did it anyways. it applies to today too. we can eat of the fruit(sin) but accept that we will be punishedfor our actions. or we can refuse the fruit(sin) and be saved from that punishment. its very complicated and would take longer to explain in depth, but i hope that helps.

i'm gonna need a little time. but then my answers won't reflect majority opinion.


but mostly... you need a new hobby.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

Even Luther only took 95 at a time. Wow, what a post! I’ll give it a shot, though.

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

This is the basic message of atonement. He gave up his life so that we might have eternal life ourselves. A few passages:

Galatians 4:4-5
“But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.”

Romans 3:23-25
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

Of course not. There were believers in the coming Christ just as there are believers now. The Bible says this in a few places.

Romans 4:1-3
“What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? ‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’”

John 20:29
”Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’”

There’s another I can’t think of right now that’s even more explicit about this. Anyone care to find it?

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

If I understand your question correctly, you are asking how Christians can claim to have any moral superiority when their actions have been so sinful. The answer to this is that Christians, be they Protestant or Catholic, are sinful. Everybody is sinful. If we weren’t, we wouldn’t need a savior. Here’s a good passage on that:

Romans 7:14-25
“We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!”

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.
See #3. We can make mistakes the same as anybody. Luther never wanted a bloody revolt, but a peaceful Reformation.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.
Again, this wasn’t such a good thing to do. Religious zeal and fervor is good, but not when it causes this.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

The Bible clearly describes him as good, not evil. It’s hard to understand God’s actions, but he is just. Punishing people who actively work against him is hardly evil, it’s just. God has a plan, and while we may not understand it, it is good. The book of Job deals a lot with this.


7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).
Jesus’ point here was that it was his job to preach to God’s chosen people, Israel, first, then preach to the Gentiles. This again was all a part of the plan. That’s not racism. Indeed, he himself said “Go and make disciples of all nations.” (Matthew 28:19). This was after the resurrection. If you read the passage, the Greek woman understood this, and because of her faith, Jesus healed her daughter.


8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. The Bible doesn’t support the oppression of women. Paul spoke to the Corinthians in the first century, and some of the letter is meant to apply solely to the cultural traditions of that particular time and place, while some applies even today. Where that line is drawn is hard to say, but let scripture interpret itself.

Also, note Ephesians 5:25
“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her”

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.
See my reply to question 8. Paul is not saying in Ephesians 6, “Hey, go out and get slaves. Slaves are just a barrel of laughs.” He is addressing how Christians should deal with a worldly institution unique to that time and place. Note that slavery back then was lots different from what it was 200 years ago in America, and that abolitionists used religious arguments against slavery then as well.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.
Children should not submit to their parents’ decisions when those are clearly evil. The Bible doesn’t say this. It says we should obey them and give them love and respect, but look at this passage.

Acts 5:29
“Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!’”

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?
This question deals with a pretty hard theological question, one that I’m pretty under prepared to answer. However, I think it deals with the Elect. The Bible preaches that Salvation is from God and that damnation is from man. If both salvation and damnation are from God, this destroys free will and an unjust God. If both salvation and damnation are from man, then we can justify ourselves on our works alone. I’ll back this up with a few passages.

Romans 3:27-28
“Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.”

1 Corinthians 12:3
“No one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.”

James 1:13-15
“When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”


12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.
One sin is all it takes. Does God sin? Did Jesus sin? How then do we have the audacity to demand that we be with him, right after we break his holy law? In Genesis, Adam and Eve were ashamed of themselves after they sinned because they were naked before God.

Isaiah 6:3-5
“’Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory.’
At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.
’Woe to me!’ I cried. ‘I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.’"

Romans 6:23
“The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

James 2:10
“For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other. This is explained well in
Romans 3:20-26
“Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”


14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia. I don’t know. Maybe people just wouldn’t understand if Jesus had explained modern psychology 2000 years ago. I’ve heard theories that all demons were exorcised when Jesus gave up his life on the cross. I honestly don’t have a great explanation for this one.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.
I don’t necessarily accept that personality resides in the soul. Trying to localize the soul in a person’s brain is very hard. Trying to localize an individual memory in a person’s brain is very hard. Trying to localize anything is hard. Again, it’s a question I don’t really understand or agree with.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.
I’ve thought about this one, too. I don’t really have an answer for it, but I know that God keeps his promises, and that being in Heaven will be paradise. Dostoevsky once wrote about a man who was sent to purgatory (a doctrine I don’t agree with). Anyway, to get to heaven he had to walk a quadrillion kilometers. He refused out of principle. After a thousand years, he started walking. After he walked the distance, he was let into heaven and announced after one second that it was worth it.

17. What is Heaven like?
Our perception of Heaven and Hell is really heavily influenced by writers like Milton and Dante. Revelation describes it, but Revelation cannot be taken literally, and to know which is figurative and which is “city planning” takes more effort than I have. I think of it as paradise like in the garden of Eden all over again, reunited with God.

18. What is Hell like?
Again, this is influenced a lot by Dante. It’s really a separation from God. It’s also been described as a place where the worm does not sleep.

Isaiah 66:44
"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.
Sin brought mortality.

Genesis 3:19
“By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

Because of this, there could only be continuity in human events through sex and reproduction. This is sort of one reason why Christians aren’t always crazy about sex: it reminds us why we need it. It certainly isn’t dirty in and of itself. In fact, it’s a gift from God to keep the human race alive. Still, its perversion is what really makes Christians hopping mad.

But to get back to the question, original sin is passed on from parent to child, just as blue eyes or a funny nose is.

Psalm 50:5
“Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”

This is why the Immaculate Conception and Virgin Mary are important: Jesus was without original sin.

Evidence of original sin is everywhere: you cannot show me a human being who has not sinned. Because of this, your question over whether it is just to punish someone for another’s sin is answered: everyone is punished for their own sin because everyone sins.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.
Luther wrote a simple explanation to this in his smaller catechism :

***
Q. What does Baptism give? What good is it?
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.
Q. What are these words and promises of God?
A. Our Lord Christ spoke one of them in the last chapter of Mark:
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; but whoever does not believe will be damned.
III.
Q. How can water do such great things?
A. It is surely not the water which does such things, but God's Word, which is with and in the water. Because, without God's Word, the water is plain water and not baptism. But with God's Word it is a Baptism, a grace-filled water of life, a bath of new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul said to Titus in the third chapter:
Through this bath of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, that we, justified by the same grace are made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying.
***

<huff> <puff> <wheeze> I’m tired. Hopefully I’ve answered your first 20 satisfactorily. I’ll do some more later. Right now, I’d like to see what you think.

As my favorite atheist (my father in law) has said, “Even if Jesus himself appeared right in front of me and spoke to me, I still would not believe in him.” The point: it is not a Christian’s job to convince anyone to believe in God – we are not sales-people, and we can't give life to a dead man. Only God can do that. The Christian’s task is to pronounce that God has provided salvation for guilty people. Whether they believe that or not is up to God – see Eph. 2:4-5, Eph. 2:8-9, John 6:37-40; etc.

One further note, I write from a particular Christian viewpoint (directly from Reformation era); not all Christians agree with me on all points. We all can be incorrect at times. We will know the full truth one day!

”…1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die…”

Let’s put it this way: my God is also your God, even if you loathe, mistrust, and disapprove of Him. Your parents are your parents, regardless of what you think about them – the relationship is organic. It exists regardless of human opinion. Jesus died because that was His plan ‘from before the foundation of the cosmos’ (Rev. 13:8). Because we cannot fathom ‘omniscience’ (i.e., the sum total of all propositions and the conclusions derived from them) – we cannot say exactly why God chose this way to present His relationship with humanity. All we can say is that without this act of God, the penalty we face is terrible.

”…2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer…”

The Bible does not say all who died B.C. went to Hell.

”…3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; etc…”

There is no justification for evil done using the name of God as a tool, nor does there need to be. Those who perform ANY sinful act face the judgment of God, and unless they truly are Christians, will suffer the penalty due them.

”…4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian….

See answer to #3

”…5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect…”
See answer to #3

”…6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See etc... for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times)…”

You define good and evil in Platonic terms. Good is not a separate category that exists outside of God. What God does is good, even if we do not like it. God is the creator – what he does with His creation is His right – just as if you were painting a portrait. You would be free to paint it how you see fit. The lessons God gives are designed to point out that humanity needs a savior – the punishment for sin runs like an artery throughout all of scripture.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

I am not a racist, but as far as I can tell, a racist is a person who prefers someone of their own race (skin color, religious origin, etc) as opposed to someone of another race. The term has a derogatory connotation because of current political views and the fact that it has been used to justify violence against others. To prefer someone of your own race is not ‘clearly wrong’. What is DONE with that is where the wrong lies. I see no racism in Mark 7:25-29 – Jesus’ mission was primarily to the Jews of His day, the spread of the gospel to other races was assigned to his followers. Note John 10:14-16. He includes persons from all races. When he spoke to the gentile woman in the Mark passage, you will see that he was making a point that God includes all peoples in his salvation.

”…8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women…”

Explain why, when murder is ‘clearly wrong’, Americans regularly murder children. In any case, the Corinthian passage addresses the particular system that church had at the time, Paul was instructing the Corinthians on how to keep an orderly service – if you read thru the rest of the book, you will see that the church in Corinth was having specific problems with its services.

One question: show us, from the Bible, where ‘discrimination against women’ is ‘clearly wrong’. While I believe that it is, when defined correctly (you offer no clarity when inducing political views into your arguments) the Bible clearly shows that God sees no difference between men and women with regard to salvation.

1 Tim. passage is a clear direction from God that gives a hierarchy of delegation with regard to men and women in religious positions. Here, Christians may disagree with me; that’s fine. My particular ‘sect’ does not ordinate women. Maybe that’s distressing, but so is knowing that you are a sinner deserving punishment. In any event, how this is ‘clearly wrong’ is ‘very unclear.’

”…9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18…”

The purpose of the Bible is the salvation of human beings, not political re-organization. God claim there are no slaves in heaven. At the time Peter wrote, slaves existed. Yes, I believe slavery is wrong – and can provide Biblical arguments to support this, but the point is irrelevant: Scripture is not a war manual, it is not concerned with political activism or change. In my opinion, I assume that many who owned slaves – once they became Christians – released their slaves. This was not a direct command by God, but could be deduced. In any event, if it is a sin to keep slaves, Jesus paid that price for the believer as well.

”…10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8….”

Children are not commanded to submit to any parental decision that is evil. However, I am using the Christian definition of the term evil (i.e., doing the opposite of what God has expressly commanded, etc.) and not some amorphous, Platonic opinion. They are subject to their parents, and at times this could result in the physical death of the child – as horrible as that sounds (and is) – it does not hinder them from paradise.

”…11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die....etc..."Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?...”

Nice try at personalizing Hume’s objection. Hume assumed too much. God does NOT love ‘all of us’ – He loves His children, and hates the children of Satan. (I can see sparks flying now! Heh heh.) Inducing an argument into Christianity and then trying to refute it based on that induction is a fallacy.

”…12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15)…”

Very few words: Hell is the absence of good. Those in hell hate God as much there as they do here.

”…3. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other…”

The answer is in your question: ‘apparent’ contradiction is not a real contradiction. Justice requires that actions be rewarded with exactly what they deserve; mercy is treating those who do NOT deserve the treatment they get. Because Jesus substituted Himself for us as an act of mercy (a gift), he fulfilled the justice of God. A first grader should be able to understand that.

”…14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia…”

As far as we know, Satan was very active just before Jesus’ death – and Jesus’ death ‘chained’ or limited Satan’s abilities on current day earth. There is no parallel between now and then – and, while it is convenient to try to explain supernatural things using current explanations, you also need to recognize that science flips on its top every few years. Things like ‘epilepsy’ and ‘schizophrenia’ may be relics of medieval science in a couple hundred years.

”…15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality….”

Drugs and brain damage destroy ability to perceive. Might want to be careful here! Reducto ad absurdum facing behaviorism removes the personality all together.

”…16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell…”

You’ll understand why they are there.

”..17. What is Heaven like?...”

Haven’t been there yet.

”…18. What is Hell like?...”

Dunno.

”…19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something ... over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why…”

You aren’t ‘being tortured eternally for something’ Adam and Eve did. You go to hell on your own. Original sin, for which ADAM was held guilty – exists as the foundation for sin – you sin because you are born that way – due to the action of Adam (not Eve). Adam was fully cognizant of what he was doing – he knew that he was responsible for ALL of his offspring.

”…20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19…”

It doesn’t. It just makes you wet.

”…21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden...Was it for shade...If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."…”

There is no indication that God did not want them to eat that fruit – He commanded them not to – it was disobeying the command that was the sin. Moreover, as I pointed out earlier – human beings are not privy to the entire mind of a superior being. We do not fully understand why God created things the way He did (we will understand a lot more later) – all we can do is go with the information He DID give us.

”…22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4….”

Too silly to refute. I’ll let any Christian who believes sex is sin refute it – I see no connection in the passages you refer to ‘sex being evil’. Induction never provides truth!

”…23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28…”

There is no reference to the end of the world in that passage, unless you are reading vs. 28 as some sort of eschatological reference.

”…24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith…”

Because the Scriptures were not complete at that time.

”…25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?...”

Why do you read inconsistencies into them?

”…26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious)….”

I have no idea what ‘divinely inspired argument' to which you are referring. I accept the 66 books of the ‘catholic’ Bible as the word of God axiomatically. The church was not Romanist until much later in history. It was Catholic (universal) and still is…all who belong to God are the Church.

“…27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?...”

Square peg into a round hole. Apples and oranges, and all that. Your God is kind, gentle, fierce, wrathful, loving, etc. BUT - He is not his creation.

”…28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?..”

See answer to #27.

”…29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?...”

Define free will.

”…30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer…”

God creates people in such a way that they willingly do the things they do.

”…31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished….”

Again, the Creator has the right to create what He wants. No rules exist from some ‘higher authority’ which bind the Creator. If he wants to make a toilet, he makes a toilet. If he wants to make a vase, he makes a vase. And Judas willingly did what he was created to do. People in hell hate God.

”…32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?...”

You mean the PHYSICAL pain! Jesus bore the full wrath of God on the behalf of others, not just the physical pain.

”…33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7)…”

Look up the passage and then elucidate your charge here – I can’t understand it…..

”…34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27…”

God is anti-sin. He declares murder, theft, disobeying parents, lying and homosexuality to be sin. He also offers forgiveness for sins.

”…35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics…”

You offer a rather distorted definition of prayer here. Prayer is designed to bring a person into line with what God wants – to bring them closer to God. It may be misused to try to get things done, but God determines the answers, not men. Demanding that God do something like, ‘curse the next-door neighbor’, or ‘turn them into a newt’ would be spell casting…..

”…36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE….”

You answered it! “From the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live.” That may or may not coincide with someone else’s viewpoint. Shouldn’t you think these thru before posting them?

”…37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born….

Because God gave me the belief.

”…38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word….”

The Anointed; an appellation given to Jesus, the Savior. It is synonymous with the Hebrew Messiah. You include the pagan references to the word ‘anointed one’ I don’t see any reason to.

”…39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38)…”

Argument from similarity does not negate, not derive, any conclusion. Many cultures have similar features in religious (or political) activities. Interesting, but irrelevant. If you desire to find out the HEBREW connotation, look thru the Old Testament passages on anointing – perhaps 1 Sam. 16:12-13.

”…40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace…”

He brings peace between believers and God.

”…41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?..”

Important?

”…42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?...”

Could not Satan imitate God?

”…43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?...”

Because Christians are not perfect, and tend to confuse things, just like everyone else.

”…44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20)…”

It doesn’t ‘get us to heaven’ – Jesus’ work did that. We are not supposed to ‘push’ our views on others. We are simply to talk about them, and let anyone who will hear them, know. It’s as valid a topic as any other, and infinitely more valuable. For the sake of argument, grant, for a few seconds, that Christianity is true – and that people are only saved when they hear the message and believe. Is it not in the interest of Christians to talk about their faith?

”…45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE….”

It's not required.

”…46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?...”

Jesus called himself Yah-weh.

”…47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?...”

Irrelevant.

”…48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?...”

We do let the government abuse us. It happens more and more every day. And I can guarantee you, 85% of this country is NOT Christian. The name is misused. Jesus spoke here in terms of slander to his word.

”…49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays?...”

Because people love to celebrate, and it is convenient to do it at the same time as others do.

”…50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5….”

By reading verse 6.

”…51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see ...etc...); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much)…”

Yes. Jesus was of the line of David, on Mary’s side as well as his adoptive father, Joseph’s.

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24)….”

It is the prerogative of the Creator to do as He wishes with His created objects. The term ‘children’ is misleading here – in essence it was a ‘gang’ that was ‘dissing’ God’s chosen spokesman, and the incident gave a lot of potency to Elijah’s words.

”…53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape)….”

Because Lot was a sinner as are the rest of us.

”…54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?...”

Refusal to acknowledge and worship God.

”…55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible….”

I’ll use only one. “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but thru me.” As for ‘bad’ people – that’s too vague for comment.

”…56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible….”

See answer to #55

”…57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?...”

I’d love to spend eternity getting to know you, visiting the myriads of planets that exist in the universe, and most importantly, I don’t want to see anyone go to hell – if I can help you avoid it, I would be very happy.

”…58. Where is Heaven?...”

God’s immediate presence.

”…59. Where is Hell?...”

Total lack of good.

”…60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?...”

God made us differently.

”…61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?...”

Seems obvious to me.

”…62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?...”

Satan cannot ‘have’ a soul. He can only spend eternity in Hell with others.

”…63. Is your god perfect?…”

Yes. The Bible says so.

”..,64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can…”

You are your soul. See the passages on the Transfiguration. And then try to figure out why I used that passage.

”…65. ...the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt….”

Right.

”…66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer….”

Let me know who’s prospering when Jesus returns. This world is their heaven.

”…67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer….”

See answer to #66 - This world is their hell.

”…68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain….”

New bodies, same soul.

”…69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash…”

You are afraid of physical death! You should be more afraid of what happens afterwards.

”…70. What is sin, exactly?...”

Disobedience to God’s direct, or inferred commands.

”…71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20)…”

I do not see Jesus sinning here….

”…72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15)…”

Irrelevant – and incorrect.

”…73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"…”

No, because he does not expect us to rely on ourselves – He wants us to turn to Him. It’s because people refuse to do so that they spend eternity in hell.

”…74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?...”

We are rational (image of God) but that rationality is tainted by sin.

”…75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods?…”

Because – as it clearly points out in the book of Hebrews – those sacrifices did nothing for the salvation of the ancient Israelites – they were designed to show that death was a necessary requirement for justice. Jesus abolished the ancient sacrifices by being the true sacrifice – the one that DID expiate sins and propitiate God’s justice.

”…76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?...”

What part of life is separate from God?

”…77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)…”

Jesus answered that. The presence of sin causes imperfections in health. Some are created that way to show a different aspect of God – for example, a blind person who still loves God, etc.

”…78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things?..."

No one believes anything against their will. All willingly believe the things they do.

”…79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer….”

It’s an apocalyptic book – mostly figurative. Parts can be taken literally, but it is mostly symbolic.

”…80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account…”

Maybe they feel that it is a service to God.

”…81. What exactly is faith?...”

Faith is exactly: volitional assent to an understood proposition.

”…82....Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible….”

I dunno what parts we ignore – can’t think of any offhand….

”…83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?...”

God gives the answer in the book of Job.

”…84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?...”

1) Jesus taught his followers how to pray, thru demonstration, and 2) they are not the same person.

”…85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5….”

The Bible describes Jesus as returning to be with His people forever.

“…86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1…”

No. His death was a planned necessity – justice demanded the sacrifice, mercy provided an alternative to our deaths.

”…87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?...”

Jesus perfect life was lived so that it could be imputed to me. When God looks at me, He sees Jesus instead.

”…88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes…”

Public schools should be abolished.

”…9. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished")….”

Your point?

”…90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?...”

He didn’t.

”…91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god?….”

Any analogy can be carried too far – they have a limited use, beyond which the issue must by nature fall apart.

”…92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe?….”

The Bible declares that God created the universe.

”…93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?...”

The Bible quotes that there is nowhere where God cannot be found – Hell is lack of good, not lack of God.

”…94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar?….”

No, Satan mixed lies with truth – he always does (hence the similarities between pagan religions and Christianity). They died that day, on the spot, just not physically. The Bible speaks of 3 different deaths.

”…95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?...”

The answer should be self–evident.

”…96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer….”

The terminology is not sexually oriented – it is hierarchically oriented. For whatever reason (God’s own reason) He has placed men in a position of more direct responsibility to Him than women, and presents himself in that light.

”…97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer….”

I’m sitting in a room with three people. They are all human beings, and all persons. How many persons are in the room? How many humanities?

”…98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?...”

Yes.

”…99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?...”

It shouldn’t be?

”…100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?...”

Forget idea that Jesus spent three days in hell (a tradition, not a Biblical proposition), Jesus purchased a people for himself. That is a value in and of itself – even if not everyone is included.

”…101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation...How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use?….”

I use many translations.

”…102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me….”

That makes no sense. If Jesus died so that you could spend eternity in paradise, isn’t that ‘something’ done for you?

”…103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god? Do you think rape is wrong?...”

First, show me the proof that she was unwilling to have God’s child. That is a necessary part of any rape charge.

”…104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39)….”

Because He intended to be crucified. His sacrifice was the reason he came here.

”…105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?...”

You misunderstand the function of the Trinity. Each person in the Trinity has a specific role in every cosmic event. All three are present in some form or other.

”…106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?...”

It didn’t seem to bother Jesus. Why should it bother me?

”…107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?...”

The key word is ‘if’. The relationship is not similar.

”…108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?...”

No.

”…109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?...”

What information do you have that shows that ‘no Jew or Roman’ would admit to it? And, what proof do you have that the Roman soldiers were NOT punished? Inductive arguments, or inferences from missing propositions are not a very sound way to argue!

”…110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects...believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?...”

If by mature, you mean totally misunderstanding the extent and seriousness of the human condition, then, yes.

”…111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?...”

You actually are concerned about my emotional response to a Psalm? Why?

”…112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?...”

Yes. Heh heh.

”…113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?...”

No, it fosters a natural and healthy dependence on him.

”…114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?...”

Mary was also descended from David’s line.

”…115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker (supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference….”

God creates human beings to willingly do the things they do.

”…116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer….”

Could be any number of possible things – it was probably a code for someone’s name.

”…117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment?…”

Solomon’s son was a sinner as much as I am. We do not deserve any goodness from God, what good we get is simply by His mercy, dependent upon the work of His son on our behalf.

”…118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said….”

You have God talking to you (the Bible) and you do NOT do what He says. Solomon was considered wise by God as long as he adhered to God.

”…119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood)….”

Yes.

”…120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not?….”

The cross is used by Christians to symbolize the death of Christ. Apparently he died on one. It has no other significance.

”…121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?...”

Statistics are always slewed. Personally I would argue that people USING the name Christian may do things cruelly to others – Satan would certainly have a big hand in trying to discredit Christianity wherever possible. But as for TRUE Christians – hardly. Most of us are very aware of our sinful tendencies, and constantly turn to God for help overcoming them.

”…122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?...”

Politix.

”…123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?...”

Wrong definition of worship.

”…124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?...”

Not enough room to go into this. Creation of humanity was completed with Adam and Eve. Investigate the doctrine of traducianism.

”…125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?...”

No.

”…126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers...If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?...”

Rather absurd misreading of the New Testament passages. However, in the O.T., God did command the Israelites to remove the inhabitants of Canaan – but never to invade other nations.

”…127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?”…

Different aspects, different situations. God held the Israelites to be his, Balaam could not punish them. God could.

”…128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?..”

Nothing. It was disobeying the command that caused the problem – it was direct, intentional rebellion.

”…129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?...”

Jesus took the actual punishment due ME for MY sins. Because he took that punishment, justice was fulfilled.

”…130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?...”

One is Joseph’s line, the other Mary’s.

”…131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?...”

Jeremiah spoke part of the book and Zechariah included it in his.

”…132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?...”

It isn’t. Not all prophecies apparently were recorded….It does not say “according to the Scriptures…”

”…133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?...”

How do you ride two animals?

”…134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?...”

I’d explain it as a feeble attempt to discredit Christianity thru semantics.

”…135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?...”

Not for Mary. Moreover, while Judeo-Christian ‘traditions’ tend to view sex as an imperfection, Christianity as a theology does not. The concept of purity in Christian theology has not a whole lot to do with sex.

”…136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?...”

Jesus ended the entire O. T. concept of Israel, extending citizenship to the entire world. He destroyed the Judaic kingdoms.

”…137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?...”

You mean, why did no one record it? Who knows how many titles he was addressed with?

”…138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for….”

You have introduced no Biblical inconsistencies – you have induced inconsistencies with your own belief in what Christianity should be.

”…139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?...”

Did Jesus consider these things, or did he hear Satan offer them and immediately reject them?

”…140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?...”

No. All the formal proofs can be demolished easily. Our religion is based upon God- given faith. Without that gift, you cannot believe in God correctly.

”…141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize….”

Takes too much time. I can demolish all of them. Offer one and I’ll show you.

”…142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize….”

See my refutation of Hume’s argument above..

”…143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views….”

Government is to be strictly limited to the punishment of those who damage person or property, either thru force or fraud.

”…144. What is your definition of the word Christian?...”

A person who believes that Jesus lived, died, rose from the dead, and now litigates on that person’s behalf.

”…145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?...”

85% CLAIM Christianity. Moreover, more things are considered crimes here than in ancient Greece. Logically it follows that with more laws, more things would be considered crimes.

”…146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?...”

They weren’t saved in the first place.

”…147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?...”

Faith in God is required for salvation. Faith that does not result in good works is not saving faith.

We do not deserve any goodness from God, what good we get is simply by His mercy

So far, that's the best answer to any question I've seen.

Oh, and thanks to everyone taking the time. It's nice to see people thinking.

Expect answers from me sometime within the next several days....I want to answer each question as completely as I can, and that'll take a bit of time.

Lots of questions. I can sum them all up in a few sentences.

Both testaments are heaps of lies to make Jehova look good, when in fact he is evil and desires the destruction of humanity. This is recorded on several occasions throughout the Bible.

I’m back at it. For many of the questions I agree with Tanelornia- that was a great post! However, I’m going a bit more in depth with my answers, so I hope there’s more of a point to my post than just parroting Tanelornia’s arguments.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."
This is a hard question. I’d generally say that again since God did have a plan, it fits a part of it. I’m going to tie this in to a passage from Job, where Job questions God’s plan. I think it is relevant to this question because God was testing Job and God was testing mankind.

Job 38:1-11
“Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: ‘Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.’

‘Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb, when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt'?”

Is it wrong for God to test his people? I don’t think so. Neither does James.

James 1:2-3
“Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.”

James 1:12-15
“Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. “When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

As I’ve said in my earlier post, it’s not bad. Sex is a gift from God. However, Christians get mad when sex is perverted through fornication, prostitution, adultery, or homosexuality. Also, because sex is linked to death, Christians remember why sex is necessary: because of sin. Note that this is not really a theological argument, but more of a cultural one. Another cultural one has to deal with the fact that we like to think of children as pure or at least purer. Since children don’t have a sex drive, this was linked somehow with being tainted. Again, this is cultural not theological.

Jesus had a bit to say on the subject of sex.
Matthew 5:28
“But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

Paul spoke a little more which I think answers your question a little better.
1 Corinthians 7:1-7
“Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.”

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28. History can be divided up into three time periods: Before Christ, during the life of Christ, and after his ascension. In the time before Christ, everything pointed towards the coming Savior. Now, we in a way point back. Jesus meant that we have all we need before his second coming. We won’t have any more prophets or miracles. We don’t need to. “It is finished.” So we really are living in the End Times.

Of relevance is Matthew 24:36
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” How this jives with Jesus’ omniscience is hard to explain. Maybe he was referring to his present humiliation, or maybe it really is the Father’s call. I don’t know, I don’t have the bylaws for the Trinity.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

This is pretty well explained in the following passage. To get to be a disciple, you’re a pretty lucky guy.
John 20:29-31
“Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’
Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”


25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?
I’m not aware that they are. Could you point out something more specific?

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).
As a Lutheran, I believe in the authority of God’s Word.

2 Timothy 3:15-17
“From infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

John 17:17
“Your word is truth.”

2 Peter 1:21
“For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

So the books are in the Canon not because some cardinals said so. They are in the Canon because they are the divinely inspired Word of God. Therefore if anyone, including the Pope, goes against the Word of God, they’re wrong.

I know you said not to use the divinely inspired thing, but I’m explaining that that’s why I can use the Bible I do while not accepting Papal Infallibility.

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat? What it has to do with being kind and gentle, I don’t understand. Still, maybe you’re asking why we have death, and the answer to that is that we have sinned. This made things not work the way they were meant to.

Romans 6:23 “The wages of sin is death.”

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites? Same argument as 27.

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will? As I pointed out in my earlier post, God isn’t holding Hell out like a big stick to smite us if we don’t cooperate: damnation is Man’s fault.

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer. First I will say that God never causes anyone to sin. Everyone is responsible for their own sin, and they choose to do it. Paul’s underlying point is that again, God has a plan.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished. Judas did not have to be damned. I think this is really important.

Matthew 27:3-5
“When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. ‘I have sinned,’ he said, ‘for I have betrayed innocent blood.’
’What is that to us?’ they replied. ‘That's your responsibility.’
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.”

Note that Judas felt remorse for his actions: he knew what he did was wrong. In this, he’s better than many criminals who don’t admit they were wrong. However, Judas didn’t ask Jesus or God for forgiveness. He didn’t think he could be forgiven. He was wrong. A thing I always think about here is the story of Peter. He denies knowing Jesus, a terrible sin, not once but three times. Still, he repents of his sin.

Matthew 26:69-75
“Now Peter was sitting out in the courtyard, and a servant girl came to him. "You also were with Jesus of Galilee," she said. But he denied it before them all. "I don't know what you're talking about," he said. Then he went out to the gateway, where another girl saw him and said to the people there, "This fellow was with Jesus of Nazareth." He denied it again, with an oath: "I don't know the man!" After a little while, those standing there went up to Peter and said, "Surely you are one of them, for your accent gives you away." Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!" Immediately a rooster crowed. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: ‘Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.’ And he went outside and wept bitterly.”

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas? See my answer to 31. Also, bearing the guilt of the world is a lot more painful.

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7). I answered this one in question #26. I’ll repeat the most direct passage.

2 Peter 1:21
“For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27. He is anti-homosexuality because God is anti-sin. Why would he create homosexuals in the first place? Alcoholism is a sin, why would God create alcoholics? Gambling is a sin, why would God create compulsive gamblers?

The answer is that we are sinful.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.
Prayer is to be understood as a way to talk to God. Jesus taught us how to pray through the Lord’s Prayer and certainly at Gethsemane. Do you think he prayed for lightning to strike his enemies? No, and that is why that’s not a valid prayer. It just doesn’t work that way.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE. We have all the information we need about who Jesus was and what he came here to do. Why didn’t the authors write down the Gospels immediately? They had some preaching to do.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born. I’d disagree that his life was poorly documented. 2000 years later we’re still talking about him. Still, it takes faith. Also, I think your question has a lot to do with your earlier one on how Thomas could touch Christ’s nail marks while I can’t see him yet still believe.

Hebrews 11:1
“Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word. It means “anointed one”. It had to do with Jesus being the long-prophesied Messiah and Savior of Israel and the world. Whether it has to do with pagan origins or not isn’t really important.

Perhaps you’re wondering what separates Jesus from those pagan origins. Could it be that the pagans had a reflection of the truth, if perversely twisted? Perversely twisting truth is a very effective tool for Satan.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38). I already talked about the Greek woman before. Remember “make disciples of all nations”? If it’s again about the pagan thing, see #38

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace. Jesus’ point in Matthew 10:34 is that his ministry is in a way divisive. It removes all doubt about who is on the side with Jesus or against him. To use a poker term, it calls people’s bluffs.

He is called the Prince of Peace not because he brings earthly peace, but because he brings heavenly peace, peace between mankind and God.

Here’s a passage dealing with this oft misunderstood aspect:

John 18:36
“Jesus said, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.’"
***

Well, that’s another 20. I’ll take a breather and keep doing some more. It’s sorta fun.

actually, i have spent 4 years of college studying these and other questions about religion, even having Eli Weisel for an advisor at one point. i've yet to find answers that meet basic criterion of internal consistency and logical stability.

unlike many people seem to think, i am non-Christian because i find the reasoning flawed, rather than because i hate Christians or have some emotional stake in remaining non-Christian. if one single Christian could refute these problems and clear up the muddle i would become Christian, since they would have established a solid foundation for my belief.

it also bothers me how apathetic Christians are about this sort of thing. i have answered far more than 147 questions about my belief system, both on this forum and in other places, because it is very important to me and i care enough about other people to want to show them more of what i think the best life-philosophy is. Christians very often seem content to not know, to embrace the total absurdity and contradiction of their views, and to just take other people's word for the fact that it'll all be fixed in heaven. that apathy and willful ignorance is one of the prime things that makes me not want to be a Christian, since i think that sort of behavior is unworthy of any human being with a pulse. i don't think any Creator would be proud of that kind of thing, and if the Christian God will bring that sort of person into His heaven then i would far rather burn in a lake of fire then spend eternity with them.

Yeah, I have too, but it's taken me 31 some odd years to answer them and I'm still not completely satisfied with my own answers. :)

However, to address the original list, if you're interested, find out for yourself. One of the most fundamental arguments against Christianity and, generally, against theism of any sort is that it demands subservience to dogma and checks reason at the door. Personally, I don't believe this is necessarily true, but it certainly seems to go on a whole lot, so it's hard to completely denounce. But, even if I did answer all these questions and through some sort of intellectual brilliance on my part managed to convince you I was right, how does that help you? The answers aren't really yours, you're just doing the same thing Christians are accused of, except this time you're not using "magical sky leprachauns", but my reasoning and rationale. If you seriously want the questions answered, and aren't just trying to get into a pissing match with people of a different opinion, do your own work and find your own answers that are meaningful to you.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

<147 questions snipped for brevity>



1.) *sigh* Are you just lazy? Finding the answers to those questions would be fairly simple if you were willing to be somewhat less lazy than the average Christian is when it comes to their beliefs. Honestly, I worked to find my answers, and you can to.

2.) You should probably be less leading and borderline insulting when asking your questions. You will probably get a better response rate that way.

1.) *sigh* Are you just lazy? Finding the answers to those questions would be fairly simple if you were willing to be somewhat less lazy than the average Christian is when it comes to their beliefs. Honestly, I worked to find my answers, and you can to.

2.) You should probably be less leading and borderline insulting when asking your questions. You will probably get a better response rate that way.

1) I don't think this is a questionairre per se, but rather a challenge of faith.
2) Honestly, I didn't find anything insulting. Longwinded and rather copious in "justify your answer" questions which I hate, but not insulting. I can even slip into a Presbyterian mindset (I pay lip service there and know it like the back of my hand) and it still doesn't seem insulting.

ahh, i see...the Church was built by people better than us, so we shouldn't question or ask that anything be explained. we should just accept that they had their reasons and we are too stupid to understand them.

and no Christian should have to answer basic questions about their faith. they shouldn't be expected to know the answers, even. only professors or professional theologians should ask or answer these questions, and the average person should be grateful if one of those learned persons "like them and finds them sincere." nobody unlikeable should receive answers, and such a person has no right to expect that a believer respond to them.

do believers really have this cavalier an attitude about religion? i think it's funny that i, an agnostic, clearly take religion and God's potential existence more seriously than you say believers do. i think that nobody should make a decision about belief lightly, and they should only choose a faith (or lack of faith) after fully considering all options, pitfalls, problems, and benefits.

i don't see why you think it is admirable for Christians to be willfully ignorant of their own faith, or why you think it is unreasonable for Christians to be able to explain some of the apparent glaring flaws in their own scriptures. if they can't answer these, why do they believe? do they really just say, "aw, who cares? i'm sure the priest is telling the truth, so i'll just take his word for it. it's not like God is important enough for me to try to understand how best to follow Him or serve Him...i'll just go with whatever religion i was raised to and ignore any questions that come to mind. i'm too stupid to understand the answers anyway."

i don't let anybody tell me what to believe, and i think it would be dishonest and lazy for me to have my life philosophy spoon fed to me just because i didn't want to take the time to think about it. instead of spending an hour or two each Sunday listening to somebody read their favorite Bible verses to you, why not read the Bible yourself? discuss problems in the Bible with people of all faiths, to test the scriptures and see if you find them solid enough to maintain a belief in them. show that you respect yourself and your religion enough to use your brain, instead of being just another lazy slug who makes religion into a matter of habit rather than a living force of the human mind.

well no bottle, i dont beleive thats what i said. what i said was that if the poster really wanted an answer to those questions, which are for the most part very sophisticated, he should ask a professional not a 14 year old who has never studied theology.

just because *I* cant explain them doesnt mean they cant be explained. if someone really wants to know the answers to these questions, they should go to "the source". i could probably come up with an answer to 90% of those questions if i really tried. but that doesnt make them CORRECT. (theologically speaking within the beliefs of any particular sect)

if one is catholic then it would make sense to find out the catholic answers to these questions. if one were baptist it would make sense to find out the baptist answers. and so on. one might assume that, having read the bible, the poster found no satisfactory answers. why ask religious amateurs instead of those who have studied the issues.

it only makes sense to ME to get the "true" answers from the leaders of whatever church you might belong to. then you can decide if you go along with those answers or not. how would i EVER decide if a particular church is for me if i dont find out what the "real" explanations are? only then can i truly say " that denomination is full of shit" or "wow they know stuff"

Good job Taneloria. I salute you.

I was going to link you to this book, the case for faith, which used to be available online. However I guess the author realized he'd make more money if he sold it instead. Well this book asks and "answers" many of the questions you asked, but I was gonna warn you that you'd need a handful of these: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
however, like I said, it's now only available for purchase....or at a library....but last time I checked, those still involved me leaving my house- though I have to admit, it's been a while since I checked...since that requires me leaving my house.
Anyway, I think some of your questions are very good, and there were some questions I had for the people answering, but I think I'll hold off.
There's too much questioning going on for right now...

I saw the Exorcist today. 2 Catholic priests alone, in the same room with a little girl who was tied to her bed. That couldn't end well.

Thanks, Eldarana!

I think I came off a little arrogant in my posts, which is most certainly not what I mean to do - ever. In any event, thanks for the compliment.

Email me at tanelornpete@hotmail.com! Davistania - you too - it sounds like we are from the same 'sect' - hee hee.

"...I saw the Exorcist today. 2 Catholic priests alone, in the same room with a little girl who was tied to her bed. That couldn't end well...."


Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh...

For some reason, I have never been interested in those films. Saw the first one, thought it was boring and awful, never went back for seconds.....

Honestly, how many of these threads do we really have to have before the madness will stop? It seems like every week, "Christians, why...?, Atheists, why...? Why [religion of preference] is wrong." Honestly, can't we cover something new rather than the same stuff from every other frickin forum on the face of the earth over and over again? Can't we just skip the whole part of the forum life where most of the posts in the general area are drivel?

Honestly, how many of these threads do we really have to have before the madness will stop? It seems like every week, "Christians, why...?, Atheists, why...? Why [religion of preference] is wrong." Honestly, can't we cover something new rather than the same stuff from every other frickin forum on the face of the earth over and over again? Can't we just skip the whole part of the forum life where most of the posts in the general area are drivel?
creat a topic then, oh he who wants something fresh....if we want to talk about this, why not let us?
(I feel like a hypocrite since I complained on some "Are you voting for Bush or Kerry" poll a few days ago- but there were like 3 threads with the exact same content on the 1st page- they already had a place to discuss that, where this is clearly something that required its own thread- lest the creator of the first get pissed at a hijacking)

Jeez...

The answer to every single question which involved taking an aspect of Jewish culture out of historical context is "put it in historical context." Same goes for you, Bible thumpers. Don't take stuff out of context to justify what you believe and do.

The answer to every single question which involved quoting the Bible verbatum is "Don't do that. The Bible is only a collection of books that various people wrote about God or God's people. (Or in Paul's case, what he thought was wrong with everyone but him because he was a pompous ass.) The Bible is considered the BEST set of books about God and God's people, but its still only a set of books." To everyone who is about to say something about "God's Word," I point out that "God's Word" was Jesus and not the Bible, and that for God to have two Words is contradictory and thus theologically impossible.

...I saw the Exorcist today. 2 Catholic priests alone, in the same room with a little girl who was tied to her bed. That couldn't end well...
The Exorcist is a bunch of bs. It was created to counter "Rosemary's Baby" to keep people away from Lucifer and in line with God's path.

What it has to do with being kind and gentle, I don’t understand. Still, maybe you’re asking why we have death, and the answer to that is that we have sinned. This made things not work the way they were meant to.
If God is benevolent like so many say, he would forgive your sins.

As I pointed out in my earlier post, God isn’t holding Hell out like a big stick to smite us if we don’t cooperate: damnation is Man’s fault.
The fact still remains that he uses fear of people being damned to Xian Hell (Hell is paradise) if they don't become Christian.

Prayer is to be understood as a way to talk to God. Jesus taught us how to pray through the Lord’s Prayer and certainly at Gethsemane. Do you think he prayed for lightning to strike his enemies? No, and that is why that’s not a valid prayer. It just doesn’t work that way.
Yet on several occasions Christian figure heads prayed to God to do something and he replied by destroying them, as was the case in Egypt when Moses freed the Hebrews.

You got to ask one question at a time so we can break it down. Questions can sometimes go as deep as infinity and will take a lifetime to comprehend. I also thought he was asking Christians not Athiests.

Honestly, how many of these threads do we really have to have before the madness will stop? It seems like every week, "Christians, why...?, Atheists, why...? Why [religion of preference] is wrong." Honestly, can't we cover something new rather than the same stuff from every other frickin forum on the face of the earth over and over again? Can't we just skip the whole part of the forum life where most of the posts in the general area are drivel?

Well you were meant to be an eternal being. It takes a while to ponder one question. It depends on how deep you want to go. Throw all that stuff behind you and keep going. Don't stop on one thought, you have an infinite road ahead of you. There's no reason to stay in one place. You must go on.

”…The answer to every single question which involved quoting the Bible verbatum is "Don't do that. The Bible is only a collection of books that various people wrote about God or God's people. (Or in Paul's case, what he thought was wrong with everyone but him because he was a pompous ass.) The Bible is considered the BEST set of books about God and God's people, but its still only a set of books." To everyone who is about to say something about "God's Word," I point out that "God's Word" was Jesus and not the Bible, and that for God to have two Words is contradictory and thus theologically impossible…”

Not theologically impossible, simply a contradiction to anyone who denies that the Scriptures are the thoughts of God recorded in black on white.

The Bible indicates that it was breathed out of God thru the pens of the various authors. In other words, the words they wrote were God’s thoughts, moved thru them, penned by various different personalities. It was not ‘dictated’ directly to them (except in a certain instances); the authors wrote their thoughts, but these very thoughts were in absolute concord with God’s thoughts at the time they wrote them. This is a special case, these authors may have written other materials, but these were not directly designed by God to be Scripture. The Bible is more than ‘only a collection of books (which it obviously is) – it is also direct communication from God in the form of statements.

You need to reconsider the term ‘word’ used in Scripture – the phrase ‘logos’, while actually having the term ‘word’ (single phrase with a specific meaning) the more common uses, and the most often used connotates ‘statement’ or ‘proposition.’ The common phrase ‘word’ is an extremely tenuous translation of the Greek – it actually was derived from Jerome’s LATIN translation (‘verbum’) of the Greek word ‘logos’ – and he had a political reason for using that particular form when the obvious translations were much more acceptable. While Jesus is called the ‘statement’ of God, this in no way contradicts the idea that that very statement is also expounded in Scripture – both sources are the same – the mind of God. As an omniscient being (i.e., a being in which, or who consists in the entirety of, all sets of propositions and their derived conclusions), there is very little difference between Jesus as the statement of God and the Scriptures as the statement of God. Jesus is God, hence omniscient; anything written in Scripture coincides with His thoughts. Because God cannot lie, his thoughts are truth – put that in a positive form: God’s thoughts constitute truth and nothing else does – anything that contradicts God’s thoughts are lies. Because of this, his Word, the Scriptures, and His Statement (Jesus) are one and the same. There is no contradiction in truth (that’s sort of the definition of truth, is it not?)

Christians must quote the Bible verbatim – Christianity by definition consists of EVERY proposition found in Scripture and ANY conclusion derived from those propositions. Anyone who denies this is not a Christian.

The Bible is considered the BEST set of books about God and God's people, but its still only a set of books." To everyone who is about to say something about "God's Word," I point out that "God's Word" was Jesus and not the Bible, and that for God to have two Words is contradictory and thus theologically impossible…”
The Bible can be considered a historical text of the exploits of Jesus and Jehova.

ou got to ask one question at a time so we can break it down. Questions can sometimes go as deep as infinity and will take a lifetime to comprehend. I also thought he was asking Christians not Athiests.
The Atheists respond to the Christians' answers with another question, since they are so often contradictory.

What it has to do with being kind and gentle, I don’t understand. Still, maybe you’re asking why we have death, and the answer to that is that we have sinned. This made things not work the way they were meant to.

If God is benevolent like so many say, he would forgive your sins.

Since God is benevolent like so many say, he does forgive your sins if you ask him as a believer in Christ.

You are asking for salvation on a silver platter, not noticing that it's already on a wooden one.


As I pointed out in my earlier post, God isn’t holding Hell out like a big stick to smite us if we don’t cooperate: damnation is Man’s fault.


The fact still remains that he uses fear of people being damned to Xian Hell (Hell is paradise) if they don't become Christian.

Are you saying God uses it as inspiration to evangelize? Maybe. People create their own inspiration, though. You can just as easily be motivated by fear of hell as by striving for heaven. The promise of heaven is what motivates me, just as it did St. Paul.

Philippians 3:12-14
"Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."

Note that Paul isn't running away from Hell, here, but towards Heaven.


Prayer is to be understood as a way to talk to God. Jesus taught us how to pray through the Lord’s Prayer and certainly at Gethsemane. Do you think he prayed for lightning to strike his enemies? No, and that is why that’s not a valid prayer. It just doesn’t work that way.
Yet on several occasions Christian figure heads prayed to God to do something and he replied by destroying them, as was the case in Egypt when Moses freed the Hebrews.

That's because it was part of God's plan, not Moses'. Moses didn't call the shots- God did. He only did what was part of his plan. Here's more proof.

Numbers 20:3-12
"They quarreled with Moses and said, 'If only we had died when our brothers fell dead before the LORD ! Why did you bring the LORD's community into this desert, that we and our livestock should die here? Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to this terrible place? It has no grain or figs, grapevines or pomegranates. And there is no water to drink!'
Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the LORD appeared to them. The LORD said to Moses, 'Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink.'
So Moses took the staff from the LORD's presence, just as he commanded him. He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, 'Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?' Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.
But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them."

has it ever occured to you people that most of us would willingly change our minds if you could actually answer these questions and defend your views? do you realize how silly you look when you try to take the moral high ground be refusing to examine your own values and claims?

put it to you this way, if you can fully and completely answer these questions and iron out all the inconsistencies above then i will personally convert to your sect TODAY. you have the power to save a human soul today. will you even try? or is Christian compassion as much of an oxymoron as religious reasoning?
So then have you read 'Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis?

I am about half-way through it. It is a small book, maybe 100 pages. I'm taking it only a few pages a day (life distractions take the rest of the day).

Though it hasn't answered all of my questions (in fact it has inspired more) it has been a good and enlightening read. I would be pleased to discuss it with other people here.

As foar as the 147 (why not go for an even 150?) questions. One important issue to consider is that any spiritual journey does not begin with all of the answeres - You don't arrive at a destination before leaving. A spiritual journey is just that - finding questions, finding answers, then discovering new questions. Questions are good and encouraged, only when one ceases to pursue the answers do they become a poison.

"...Originally Posted by Bottle
has it ever occured to you people that most of us would willingly change our minds if you could actually answer these questions and defend your views? do you realize how silly you look when you try to take the moral high ground be refusing to examine your own values and claims?...."

Put it this way - many of us give very clear, simple answers. Many of us, and I will step forward to openly discuss my beliefs - have and do examine our own values and claims. They are just not the answers you desire. Our appologies, we can't dictate what we are to believe to satisfy the desires of multitudes of people - there is only what we have and it must be taken or denied.

"...put it to you this way, if you can fully and completely answer these questions and iron out all the inconsistencies above then i will personally convert to your sect TODAY. you have the power to save a human soul today. will you even try? or is Christian compassion as much of an oxymoron as religious reasoning?..."

I offered a complete, consistent points, as have several others - and there have been no real discrepancies between those of others and myself. The oxymoron is not in what is Christian compassion as in someone claiming they would 'convert' to Christianity, as long as it fit the categorical answers they have already assigned and desire Christians to give. We cannot do it - we didn't design this religion, we can only answer with the information we have been given.

Not only that, but I do not have the power to save a single human being. Only God can do that. If you were truly interested in salvation you would ask God for it, not demand that you get particularly designed answers groomed to satisty your own particular demands from Christians who are simply passing on information they have received. Christianity, while certainly good for us, does not cater to our whims.

Keruvalia today I shall began to answer your questions. Not only do I expect you to read them when I post them but I also want you to give me feedback.

Not only that, but I do not have the power to save a single human being. Only God can do that. If you were truly interested in salvation you would ask God for it, not demand that you get particularly designed answers groomed to satisty your own particular demands from Christians who are simply passing on information they have received. Christianity, while certainly good for us, does not cater to our whims.
i am not currently interested in salvation because nobody has yet convinced me that i need it or that their particular God exists or is capable of granting it. i am a rational being, so if somebody can establish those points for me then i would certainly ask God to save me and do anything necessary to please him.

what is the saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? well, i am trying to help myself. i don't expect God to expend His valuable time appearing before me to argue his case in person. instead, i am going to those people who claim to already have the information i am looking for...if somebody says they believe in God then i assume they have given the matter serious thought, as i have, and since they arrived at a conclusion different from mine then they must have some information i do not have. i ask them to share it with me, thereby allowing me to know which of the many Gods is real and which one i ought to contact about my salvation.

i don't ask that people give me answers i like, only that they give me answers which are logically consistent and supportable by something other than "because i say so." i think the subject of God's existence is far too important to take somebody's word on, so i ask that they show respect for the subject matter and give supports for their points. the only answers i "dislike" are answers that are incomplete or logically inconsistent, and the only answers i "like" are those that actually answer my questions in full.

i have no emotional stake in my lack of faith, it is simply the only logical course for me to choose with the information i have. if new information becomes available i re-evaluate my position. so far, no evidence at all has been presented to support the exitence of God at all, let alone the existence of the particular diety described in the Bible.

[QUOTE=Bottle]i am not currently interested in salvation because nobody has yet convinced me that i need it or that their particular God exists or is capable of granting it. i am a rational being, so if somebody can establish those points for me then i would certainly ask God to save me and do anything necessary to please him.

It is a very simple case: We do not offer the one existing Deity with the honor and respect He deserves. We place ourselves in a rank of far greater importance that His, and require that He accept us in that fashion. Unfortunately, He does not, and that is the hindrance…..

what is the saying, "God helps those who help themselves"? well, i am trying to help myself..

That is not a Christian ‘saying’ – so you may not be looking for the Christian deity.

i don't expect God to expend His valuable time appearing before me to argue his case in person. instead, i am going to those people who claim to already have the information i am looking for...if somebody says they believe in God then i assume they have given the matter serious thought, as i have, and since they arrived at a conclusion different from mine then they must have some information i do not have. i ask them to share it with me, thereby allowing me to know which of the many Gods is real and which one i ought to contact about my salvation.

God HAS argued his case extensively in the Scriptures – it’s all there, and to a Christian, it is as clear as daylight. To the non-Christian, it lacks the necessary pre-requisites, namely, that the deity reward that person with what they feel they deserve, on that person’s pre-determined grounds. God does not work on our grounds, He works on his….



Bottle, the problem is that you have already determined what the answers must be, and will reject any that do not fit your pre-determined profile. I’m not stating this from any dislike of you – I truly respect your views and you come across as likeable and intelligent (two things that I, personally, find appealing). I state it because it is an accurate assessment of reality: the unbeliever – from a Christian point of view – is incapable (because of that unbelief) – to accept the things that Christians claim to be true. We cannot convince you to believe. I am fully capable of offering any argument completely self-consistent within the framework of Christian theology, but they would be INconsistent with your view of what ‘should be’. Only God can give you the understanding you need for salvation.

[QOUTE]i have no emotional stake in my lack of faith, it is simply the only logical course for me to choose with the information i have. if new information becomes available i re-evaluate my position. so far, no evidence at all has been presented to support the exitence of God at all, let alone the existence of the particular diety described in the Bible.

Totally understood...My prayers are for you.

now, to the chap who has suggested i read Mere Christianity, i have...and i was extremely disappointed. CS Lewis is clearly a gifted fiction writer, but Mere Christianity was an empty effort in my opinion. his preface analogy of Christianity as a house with a big hall and many rooms seems very apt, since he is writing only to the residents of that house and fails to make any case for why one should move into the house in the first place. he himself never bothered to peruse most of the other rooms, but simply set up shop in the Anglican parlour and procede to write a book; he obviously didn't get any further out of the house than the front hall, let alone openning the front door and setting a toe onto the street.

Lewis discusses things like the Virgin Birth and reaches no conclusion other than that they are too controversial to say anything substantial...even though they are CENTRAL to Christianity, and one MUST make a conclusion if one is to decide whether to be Christian or not. Lewis' personal background (his early Calvanist experiences) shows through here, and it's pretty obvious why he doesn't want to deal with such questions.

Lewis' famous quote about Jesus (on pg 41 of my edition) grotesquely oversimplifies things: "Either this man (Jesus) was, and is, the son of God, or else a madman or something worse." even i, who don't believe the man known as Jesus even existed as we think of him, can see that there are so many more options than those two, and Lewis seems to think we will all just acept his statement and ignore its obvious falsehood.

Lewis claims that there is a Natural Law, and that different cultures never have significant differences in what they view as Right and Wrong, despite the fact that this is a ludicrous and clearly false statement. many current cultures support infanticide, rape, theft, murder, and all manner of Western Wrongs, and consider our behaviors likewise sinful and corrupt. again the author seems to think that just saying a thing makes it true, and raises not a single finger to try to support his claim, expecting the reader to nod and smile without question.

Lewis' frequent analogies may make the book more accessable to people with low intelligence or poor critical thinking skills, but they also render about 80% of the book totally irrelevant to anybody who can think. for instance, Lewis' piano music analogy is clearly bunk, since it ignores all manner of crucial points, including: the possibility of improvisation and composition, making robots of us alll; the fact that the sheet music is external to the piano, and it can be replaced with another song if desired; the obvious factor that pianos don't grow and learn and hurt, like people; and so on, and so forth. all the analogies he uses follow this pattern, and it is quite simple to find the gaping holes in pretty much every one of them.

Lewis also seems to labor under the misconception that establishing a common morality (which he fails to even do) would prove the existence of God. if the reason why that is bunk doesn't immediately jump out at you then i can understand why you thought Mere Christianity was a good book.

the message of Mere Christianity boils down to the same old "you're a sinner, you're unworthy" rant we've all heard before, since Lewis tells us to look within to see all the ways we are breaking his "Natural Law" (and therefore disobeying God, aparently). by making us all remember how ashamed we are at our own occasional bad behavior, he uses the old emotive ploy of depressing us into looking for a quick fix; you're an awful person, and you sin all the time, but God will fix everything if you just supress reason and believe!

over all, i found that Mere Christianity would only appeal to people who already believed that stuff. Lewis' own statements reveal that he was probably never an actual atheist or agnostic, he was just disgusted with the institutions ruling over organized religion; he always WANTED to believe in God, and was delighted when he found ways he thought could rationalize giving in to those feelings. Mere Christianity seems but further proof of that, since it doesn't answer any actual questions but instead focuses on reassuring people who already accept the base assumption of God.

Bottle - On C.S. Lewis - I have found that nearly all of his writings really never say anything much. They SEEM to say something, but as you begin to examine them more closely, you find those 'inconsistencies' you mention in your posts. Lewis was a great writer, with a true gift for language - he was a gift to the English language from an etymological sense, but from a theological sense, it turned out to be a disappointment for me.

I apologize sincerely to those Christians who find solace in Lewis' writings for my words here - he could say things that can be easily quoted, but under that surface there was a definite distance between speach and theological depth.

Maybe we can be of assistance in some other way, Bottle?

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 6 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"

Hi Keruvalia!

I am bumping your post back to the bottom here for the purpose of keeping this thread on track -

It would be a lot easier to debate of you posted the questions in shorter form - maybe one or two at a time, or via email - I could easily address them at greater length than my short (and, I found, in retrospect, slightly disrespectful (unintentionally - I was hurrying) replies earlier.

As for being afraid of the questions? I cain't answer for other Christians, but I am not afraid to facve even the most difficult questions. You ask many good ones - and a few rather silly ones (hee hee). I hold Peter's words to heart: "...always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you - yet with gentleness and reverence" (I should have taken that last phrase more seriously when I posted my replies!

T

Back to the post that started this thread…

I’m slowly working my way through, 20 or so at a time, though these should go faster seeing as how I’ve answered them in parts in previous posts. I won’t try to do too much pointing around, as I prefer self-contained points, but I’ll try to be balanced.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?
I think it was some form of Joshua, which I got from my study Bible. Joshua’s been anglicized as well. Someone earlier said Y’shua, so that sounded right.

In any case, this is another point where Christianity breaks with Islam. In Islam, there is more of an emphasis on reading the Qua’ran in its original language. It is in line with the Great Commission that we translate the Bible into our own language so that we can understand it. Luther recognized this, and was one of the first to make a German version that lots of people could use.

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

I pointed out before that mixing truth with lies makes things more convincing. However, were Herakles, Dionysios, or Asklepios even based on real people? Assuming they were, they still didn’t rise from the dead (really) or atone for anyone’s sins. Also, though I’m pretty clear on Herakles and Dionysios, I think Asklepios is Greek, too. It certainly sounds Greek. The Greek gods differed from the God of the Bible in that they were fallible. They could make mistakes. They could get pouty. Jesus, on the other hand, didn’t make mistakes.

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?
Because they don’t read the Constitution? Romans 13:1 says we should submit ourselves to the governing authorities. The governing authorities have explicitly stated their principles in the Constitution. The First Amendment grants a separation of Church and State, which is a really, really good idea for Christians and, heck, everybody.

Note that by litigating laws, Christians partially argue against themselves. We are not to follow religious laws arbitrarily- Christ did that for us. We are supposed to follow them out of love for Christ. The same is true for civil laws. Therefore, making more and more laws isn’t really the best way to go about things.

Sometimes I feel like the lone Democrat at my church, though.

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).
The New Testament doesn’t suggest that you have to do this to get to Heaven. There’s not some bouncer outside the Pearly Gates saying, “Where’s your admit two ticket?” Still, it is important that we preach the gospel to all mankind. God gave us a gift when he gave us Jesus. In the same way, we can show how much that gift means to us when we give it to others that we know.

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.
Pagans don’t worship the Devil? You’re right that they think they don’t. But they certainly don’t worship God, and there aren’t a whole lot of choices left.

John 14:6
“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’

Luke 11:23
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.”

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

I devoted way too much time to this in another thread, however here’s just a few of the best from my longer discussion.

John 14:9-11
“Jesus answered: ‘Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.”

Matthew 16:15-17
“’But what about you?’ he asked. ‘Who do you say I am?’
Simon Peter answered, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’
Jesus replied, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.’”

Luke 22:70
“They all asked, ‘Are you then the Son of God?’ He replied, ‘You are right in saying I am.’"

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist? The golden rule was stated in the negative in Buddhism, while stated in the positive in Christianity. But that aside, Christ was a great thinker because he preached about Love. Not only did he preach about it, but he demonstrated it perfectly. What greater act of love is there than to redeem the whole world?

That aside, to look at Christ as only a great thinker is to deny Christianity. He wasn’t there primarily to tell us how to live, though he certainly did that. He was there to fulfill God’s plan of salvation.

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us? Jesus is saying that we should have love for our enemies, not that we should back down. We should demonstrate this love for our enemies, just as he demonstrated his by giving his life for all sinners, including those who throw their salvation away. We shouldn’t repay evil with evil is what he is saying.

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion? It’s pretty easy to hijack holidays. Also, since when do pagans have monopolies on holidays? I think it’s pretty fitting that we celebrate Christmas near the winter solstice while Easter is by the Spring equinox. We aren’t worshipping the Earth, but I at least recognize the significance of those times.

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5. Because he’s punishing those who hate him. That’s justice. Continue the quote into verse 6 and you see why he’s merciful.

Exodus 20:5-6
“You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.”


51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).
Of course. You need both Law and Gospel, otherwise you’re not being saved from anything. I’ve talked about God’s plan a lot, and his not being cruel or sadistic just a question ago. Therefore, I’ll include what Paul has to say about the law.

Romans 7:7-13
“What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ‘Do not covet.’ But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.”

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24). This wasn’t a group of toddlers calling him poopy-pants. This was a group of youths jeering at a Prophet of God. For more on the insult, a lot could be explained by Samson (Judges 13 or so).

If you stand in the way of God or his chosen Prophet, you get mauled by bears. I don’t think that’s mean, I think it’s just. Maybe the next group of people will actually listen to God’s prophet.

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape). Well, Lot was wrong. And Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because, among other things, they had a lot of prostitution. They were just really wicked people there.

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct? Blasphemy. Or in part, Pride. In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve ate the fruit because they wanted to be like God, to be equal. They wanted it to be all about them. They disobeyed God’s direct command to do this.

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible. Are they bad as in bad people? They sure are. So are Christians; we’re bad too. However, Christianity is the only way to Heaven.

John 14:6
“Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’

Luke 11:23
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.”

Romans 3:9-12
“What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written:
‘There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.’”

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible. Sadly, yeah. See #55.

I know that upsets people. Preaching damnation isn’t always a very good idea or first impression. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar and all that. Still, it’s true.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me? The same as anyone. See #45 a little. Jesus Christ came to serve and to give up his life as the ransom for many. In the same way, we should serve each other.

58. Where is Heaven? This is an awful lot like ‘Is there a Heaven’ that you asked earlier. So yes it exists, it’s a paradise where we will spend eternity with God. It’s not really a physical place, such that you take a left at Harvey the Rabbit and you’re there.

59. Where is Hell? See my answer to your question before about Hell. It’s separation from God.

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

Well, we’re made in God’s image. We’re set apart from the animals. Just check out the creation account.

Genesis 1:26-31
“Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

God blessed them and said to them, ‘Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.’
Then God said, ‘I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food.’ And it was so.
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.”

Bottle - On C.S. Lewis - I have found that nearly all of his writings really never say anything much. They SEEM to say something, but as you begin to examine them more closely, you find those 'inconsistencies' you mention in your posts. Lewis was a great writer, with a true gift for language - he was a gift to the English language from an etymological sense, but from a theological sense, it turned out to be a disappointment for me.

I apologize sincerely to those Christians who find solace in Lewis' writings for my words here - he could say things that can be easily quoted, but under that surface there was a definite distance between speach and theological depth.

Maybe we can be of assistance in some other way, Bottle?

actually, you just were of assistance, if you are a Christian who is able to read Lewis with that degree of perception. it's reassuring to see evidence that one may think while being Christian; though i know that to be possible in theory, i often find myself doubting the practical reality due to lack of examples. ;)

my main problem is that i don't see how the Christian God can be logically consistent. if God is all-powerful and all-good then our current world state is impossible...unless rape, child abuse, and other evils are actually "good" things and we humans are wrong for thinking them evil. if God is all-powerful but not all-good, or all-good but not all-powerful, then i don't see sufficient reason for us to worship him. if God is all-knowing then free will is a technicality, and if God isn't all-knowing then i don't see how he could possibly be all-good.

all the answers i receive to these questions tend to boil down to "God's smarter than us so He obviously won't make sense, so just accept that His not-making-sense-ness is proof that He is real." for some reason nobody accepts my reciprocal proof of invisible unicorns that uses the same theorem.

…and another 20…

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?
Because he hates God and all His creation. Pretty simple.

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it? I’m not quite sure I understand this question. A soul is not something Satan keeps in a jar by the door, just waiting for a rainy day. A lost soul joins Satan in his prison, separated from God.

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer. Yes. Also, Jesus, as a card-carrying member of the Triune God, was perfect as well.

Isaiah 6:3
“Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
the whole earth is full of his glory."

Hebrews 4:15
“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet was without sin.”

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can. You can’t really pinpoint it, at least I can’t. I don’t know.

65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt. We’re not talking about the Jewish faith, we’re talking about Christianity. Besides, I’m not really sure of the validity of that statement to begin with. God’s plan to send a savior started by promising Abraham a son. Abraham was a believer, so I’ll bet he believed in Satan.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer. Because we’re still living on Earth. Besides, they may be prosperous, but what does that buy them?

Matthew 19:24
“Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Luke 14:11
“For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer. It’s the same reason as #66. Also, Job deals a lot with this. If people believed in God just because it made them rich, the basis of faith would be destroyed. Yet even though he got pretty frustrated, Job never turned away from God.

68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain. Actual bodies. At least, that’s how I interpret the following.

Philippians 3:20-21
“The Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.”

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash. Sinless infants do not exist. But, really you’re asking why do bad things happen to good people. Job was in the same boat, and he got to the point where he questioned God’s plan.

Job 38:1-7
“Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:

’Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?”

70. What is sin, exactly? It is missing the mark that God sets for us. Our behavior can never be up to par. The standard’s too high.

Romans 6:23 “The wages of sin is death”

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).
He is perfect. The parable of the fig tree is about the coming judgment of mankind, and Israel’s in particular. Some think Israel’s judgment was fulfilled in the Roman oppression little more than a century after Christ ascended.

The point of the story is not that Jesus got really crabby and killed a poor defenseless little tree.

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15). The Jews couldn’t legally put him to death. That’s why they had to go to the Romans. Crowds of Jews chanted “Crucify him! Crucify him!” They released Barabbas instead of Jesus. So it’s not a lie.

That said, he had to die anyway. I crucified him, and so did you.

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

He created us as perfect. We threw that away. He does not grade on a curve. That’s just. Instead, he sent a savior. That’s being merciful, not entrapping us.

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

Being created in god’s image and likeness means that we were morally perfect. We tarnished God’s image by the fall and instead were born in the image of Adam, but god’s image can be restored through Christ.

Genesis 5:1-3
“When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them ‘man.’
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.”

Colossians 3:9-10
“Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.”

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer. It’s wrong because a lamb cannot take away the sins of a human being. In the Old Testament, they didn’t even believe this. Rather, it was a symbol of the coming savior. Now that the sacrifice is over and done with, we don’t do that anymore.

Hebrews 7:26-28
“Such a high priest meets our need--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.”

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already? He confused Israel’s enemies so that the divine plan could unfold.

77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11) God did not cause it. Man did when he sinned against God.

Genesis 3:17-19
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). Once again, damnation comes from man, salvation from God. God doesn’t force people to believe false things. They know what they’re doing.

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer. The book of Revelation is very figurative. I really, really hate it when it is taken literally, and people are outside looking for 6-horned beasts. A pastor could probably tell you a lot more.

80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.

It would be great for men to castrate themselves. It would be great if men wore pink tutus while rubbing their stomachs and patting their heads at the same time- provided that it keep them from sinning. Jesus’ point in the passage is not that we should maim our bodies, but that we should do all we can to not sin.

actually, you just were of assistance, if you are a Christian who is able to read Lewis with that degree of perception. it's reassuring to see evidence that one may think while being Christian; though i know that to be possible in theory, i often find myself doubting the practical reality due to lack of examples. ;)

LOL!!!!! Actually, I have formal training in logic as well as theology, so you can be assured we are out there (for example, check out the writings of Gordon H. Clark) - see www.trinityfoundation.org

my main problem is that i don't see how the Christian God can be logically consistent. if God is all-powerful and all-good then our current world state is impossible...unless rape, child abuse, and other evils are actually "good" things and we humans are wrong for thinking them evil. if God is all-powerful but not all-good, or all-good but not all-powerful, then i don't see sufficient reason for us to worship him. if God is all-knowing then free will is a technicality, and if God isn't all-knowing then i don't see how he could possibly be all-good.

This is the famous argument: If God is omniscient and omnipotent and benevolent, He would not allow evil to befall humanity: Evil does befall humanity: therefore, God is either not omniscient, omnipotent, or benevolent - or some combination of the three.

You are 'spot on' in several points: i.e. "...if God is all-knowing then free will is a technicality, and if God isn't all-knowing then i don't see how he could possibly be all-good..."

The above argument is a stong one, but it rests on a faulty premise: that a benevolent God must of necessity be benevolent to all without distinction. This is an unfounded premise: it is not necessary: God could be benevolent to a single human being and still fit the definition.

In essence the answer is this: God is all-knowing (that is, he 'contains' - I argue, IS - the sum of all propositions and the conclusions derived from them); all-powerful (that is, the source of all 'movement' in the ancient philosophical sense); and benevolent, but is not bound to express benevolence to all. This would place a category (GOOD) outside of God - thereby making a higher power than God (which we should worship instead - Anselm's argument). God may love mankind, but not all human beings. He may express love toward all in some fashion: for example, pleasure comes from God (as do all 'good' things) - rain on the crops, etc. - but He is not bound to stop mankind from commiting evil against mankind. I would certainly say that it is well within His power to re-create humanity in such a way that these things don't happen (in fact, that is what the Bible means by 'heaven' or 'paradise' - a state of humanity without these evils.)

He expresses love toward some people in a different way than He does others: he moves some from a state of condemnation to a state of justification. He does this 'arbitrarily' (in the true sense of the word: there is no power forcing Him to do so - He does as He wishes).

And this brings up the question of 'free will' -- a concept so vague and obscure that it never is fully defined. I do not believe anyone has a 'free' will. I believe that they have a will: that is, a volition that concurs with some actions and not others, but it is not free; else no one could ever plan anything - there would be no way - your will would always be motivating you to do something else. You always have a reason that exists behind your will.

I believe that God creates people to willingly do the things they do. I can supply Biblical data to support this, but I don't imagine that would hold much weight at this point.

In any event: be prepared to rip out your hair in frustration (hee hee). Because we are not omnipotent, we cannot grasp the complete reason why God does one thing and not another. We can surmise, even demand action from Him, but we cannot force the issue. God does what He wants, and for whatever reason He has never fully given us all the juicy details behind his reasoning. I wish I could know - but then, I'm not an omniscient being. I have a finite mind, limited to what training, experience and examination have given me. God does have reasons, and what He does IS good - because the Christian definition of Good is: "What God Does" - even if we don't understand it, or don't like it.

Moreover, because we are not omniscient, we are limited to the 'now' - we live within time, so that things occur linearly: God does not live in time: all things occur simultaneously: we see them one thought after another. Hence, while we see a bad thing happen: we don't see the repercussions a million years down the line.

So - are rape, child abuse, etc; 'good things': no, because God has declared that they are not. But does good eventually result from them: God says, 'yes'. I hate the concept of war and am totally opposed to it. But I do know that in the end, when history completes, and all things are reckoned and accounted for, God will dispense the correct justice to the offenders - and just compensation to the victims. We, as finite beings, just want it to happen today....

all the answers i receive to these questions tend to boil down to "God's smarter than us so He obviously won't make sense, so just accept that His not-making-sense-ness is proof that He is real." for some reason nobody accepts my reciprocal proof of invisible unicorns that uses the same theorem.

'Taint no proof he's real at all. All those arguments prove is that unicorns live in my bathroom and speak Lithuanian while I'm not there. It's an insult to God to attribute irrationality to the SOURCE of logic. I know the source of that argument though - ever listen to one of those geniuses who speaks something but you have no concept of what was just said? The argument sort of follows: I didn't understand that, DANG, he MUST be smart! LOL!

God HAS argued his case extensively in the Scriptures – it’s all there, and to a Christian, it is as clear as daylight. To the non-Christian, it lacks the necessary pre-requisites, namely, that the deity reward that person with what they feel they deserve, on that person’s pre-determined grounds. God does not work on our grounds, He works on his….

Bottle, the problem is that you have already determined what the answers must be, and will reject any that do not fit your pre-determined profile. I’m not stating this from any dislike of you – I truly respect your views and you come across as likeable and intelligent (two things that I, personally, find appealing). I state it because it is an accurate assessment of reality: the unbeliever – from a Christian point of view – is incapable (because of that unbelief) – to accept the things that Christians claim to be true. We cannot convince you to believe. I am fully capable of offering any argument completely self-consistent within the framework of Christian theology, but they would be INconsistent with your view of what ‘should be’. Only God can give you the understanding you need for salvation.


wait, so you are actually trying to tell me that the way to answer my questions is to assume God does exist, that scriptures accurately represent His word, and that the scripture i should choose to follow is the Bible? what the hell kind of reasoning is that?! why should i assume those things, instead of assuming the Qu'ran is right? or the Bhagavad Ghita? on what criterion shall i make this important choice, if none of my puny logic or thinking can touch so lofty a topic as God?

asking that you first establish God's existence and that the Bible is an accurate record of God's will isn't my "view of what should be," it's called logic...it's not like i am making up these standards to suit me, that's simply how rational discourse works. you still persist with the theist misperception that all people have an assumption of God's existence; you folk usually seem to think that atheists and agnostics really do believe, deep down, and we are simply suppressing these feelings, when the reality is that we don't make your primary assumption of religiosity. you're telling us that we have to just take your word for it on one of the most important subjects in life...that shows a remarkably cavalier attitude about God, in my opinion.

your claim that a non-believer can never be made to believe because they are insisting God work on their terms is likewise hillarious. what you are saying is that God won't give us any logical basis for belief at all, nor will He give us physical evidence, nor will He give us any basis for determining which of the world's many faiths to follow, yet He will be angry with us if our essentially random guess at which faith to follow turns out to be wrong. what the hell kind of insane, impractical, illogical being would use such a system? why should i worship so silly a being, when all His infinite powers can't come up with a better means of dealing with we simple humans? why should i respect a Creator who sets humans apart from all other life by their powers of reason alone, and then makes it impossible for them to believe in Him if they use those powers?

what you basically are saying is that non-believers can never become believers unless they ignore fact, reality, and sense, and that they must decide with no reason whatsoever to follow your faith above all others. forgive me, but you sound like the sort of person who has believed all their life and still belongs to the same religion as your parents, making a better case for the effectiveness of habit than for the power of faith.

LOL!!!!! Actually, I have formal training in logic as well as theology, so you can be assured we are out there (for example, check out the writings of Gordon H. Clark) - see www.trinityfoundation.org

This is the famous argument: If God is omniscient and omnipotent and benevolent, He would not allow evil to befall humanity: Evil does befall humanity: therefore, God is either not omniscient, omnipotent, or benevolent - or some combination of the three.

You are 'spot on' in several points: i.e. "...if God is all-knowing then free will is a technicality, and if God isn't all-knowing then i don't see how he could possibly be all-good..."

The above argument is a stong one, but it rests on a faulty premise: that a benevolent God must of necessity be benevolent to all without distinction. This is an unfounded premise: it is not necessary: God could be benevolent to a single human being and still fit the definition.


um, no, that's not what i said. i said that God can't be all-knowing and ALL-GOOD...if he's all-good then he must be good to all people, at all times. that's what that means. if he isn't all-good then he's just a very very powerful being, and may infact be making evil choices...that would mean we should be fighting against him, rather than worshipping him, or at the very least criticizing him for the decisions he makes that are wrong.

unless, of course, you claim that whatever God does is, by definition, moral. in that case, we should not have laws against murder, rape, child abuse, etc, because God clearly is allowing them to happen and therefore they are good. if there is, as you later claim, good that will come out of these things, and God will punish and reward offenders and victims in his own way, then we should not have any form of earthly justice at all; God has allowed these things to happen for a reason, and we cannot possibly punish people for simply carrying out God's will. if it wasn't His will that they happen He wouldn't have allowed them to take place, so by not using His all-powerfulness to stop them He has shown us that He wishes them to happen. by punishing offenders we are chastizing those who carry out the will of God...that doesn't seem fair.


In essence the answer is this: God is all-knowing (that is, he 'contains' - I argue, IS - the sum of all propositions and the conclusions derived from them); all-powerful (that is, the source of all 'movement' in the ancient philosophical sense); and benevolent, but is not bound to express benevolence to all. This would place a category (GOOD) outside of God - thereby making a higher power than God (which we should worship instead - Anselm's argument). God may love mankind, but not all human beings. He may express love toward all in some fashion: for example, pleasure comes from God (as do all 'good' things) - rain on the crops, etc. - but He is not bound to stop mankind from commiting evil against mankind. I would certainly say that it is well within His power to re-create humanity in such a way that these things don't happen (in fact, that is what the Bible means by 'heaven' or 'paradise' - a state of humanity without these evils.)

He expresses love toward some people in a different way than He does others: he moves some from a state of condemnation to a state of justification. He does this 'arbitrarily' (in the true sense of the word: there is no power forcing Him to do so - He does as He wishes).

And this brings up the question of 'free will' -- a concept so vague and obscure that it never is fully defined. I do not believe anyone has a 'free' will. I believe that they have a will: that is, a volition that concurs with some actions and not others, but it is not free; else no one could ever plan anything - there would be no way - your will would always be motivating you to do something else. You always have a reason that exists behind your will.

I believe that God creates people to willingly do the things they do. I can supply Biblical data to support this, but I don't imagine that would hold much weight at this point.

In any event: be prepared to rip out your hair in frustration (hee hee). Because we are not omnipotent, we cannot grasp the complete reason why God does one thing and not another. We can surmise, even demand action from Him, but we cannot force the issue. God does what He wants, and for whatever reason He has never fully given us all the juicy details behind his reasoning. I wish I could know - but then, I'm not an omniscient being. I have a finite mind, limited to what training, experience and examination have given me. God does have reasons, and what He does IS good - because the Christian definition of Good is: "What God Does" - even if we don't understand it, or don't like it.

Moreover, because we are not omniscient, we are limited to the 'now' - we live within time, so that things occur linearly: God does not live in time: all things occur simultaneously: we see them one thought after another. Hence, while we see a bad thing happen: we don't see the repercussions a million years down the line.

So - are rape, child abuse, etc; 'good things': no, because God has declared that they are not. But does good eventually result from them: God says, 'yes'. I hate the concept of war and am totally opposed to it. But I do know that in the end, when history completes, and all things are reckoned and accounted for, God will dispense the correct justice to the offenders - and just compensation to the victims. We, as finite beings, just want it to happen today....

so you are saying that there is good that comes out of a 5 year old being repeatedly raped and then murdered by a sex offender. exactly what did that child learn from this experience? is the all-powerful God not capable of coming up with a better way to educate that child's soul, or was torture and death really necessary? i can think of plenty of ways to raise that child in love that would yield a happy, prosperous, helpful person...God seems to have prefered murdering a baby in the most painful way possible. doesn't seem like a good diety to me, at all.

if God gives preferential or inconsistent treatment to people, then why worship? if we can't trust that His will is always right and fair, then why worship? just because somebody is very very powerful doesn't mean you ought to submit to them, it just means you need to work that much harder to break free of them when they go bad.

as i have already shown, the Christian definition of Good leads us to the conclusion that murder, rape, allowing people to starve or die of disease, torture, and all manner of other evils are Good. if God is all-powerful and all-good He would (by definition) be able and inclined to create a world free of evils. if you claim he is all-powerful and all-good then this must be that world, and therefore there is no evil in the world. we are wrong to judge things like murder and rape and torture to be evil, because God has decided to include them and therefore they are good. they serve a critical purpose in his omnicient eyes, and we are therefore not right to question or to try to prevent them.

if, on the other hand, Good is a moral state that exists beyond God, then he is not all-powerful because that is a standard beyond his control. then we are left, again, to ask why we should necessarily worship.

while i appreciate your respectful and friendly tone, i must say i am still very disappointed in your arguments. i'm also horrified that there are people who are willing to accept such obviously flawed logic, and i "pray" that you will some day have the strength to take a long look at your beliefs and break free of the emotive dependence of faith.

1) I don't think this is a questionairre per se, but rather a challenge of faith.

It asks questions about what "your sect" believes. The beliefs of a particular sect (ie. answers to the "questions") are available by going to their website or a representative of that sect. And that method of finding answers is more reliable than shooting in the dark by posting that list on a public forum.

Honestly, I didn't find anything insulting. Longwinded and rather copious in "justify your answer" questions which I hate, but not insulting. I can even slip into a Presbyterian mindset (I pay lip service there and know it like the back of my hand) and it still doesn't seem insulting.

I found the implication that any Christian should try to justify horrors like the Crusades or witch trials incredibly insulting. There is no justification for such things.

unless, of course, you claim that whatever God does is, by definition, moral.

I've always hated that claim too, Bottle. I don't think anybody should be deciding whether God is doing the moral or immoral. There is a big problem in defining the morality of God's decisions. We don't have a detailed idea of what the endgame looks like (unless you take the Book of Revelations or another book of that sort literally), or (in other words) what exactly God set as a goal in terms of the progress of our species. Without an idea of the goal, we can't figure out what the appropriate action to take to reach the goal would be. In the end, I have no basis for claiming God's actions moral or immoral, and would not even if I had full knowledge of God's actions.

(This assumes that God exists and actually has a plan of some sort, of course.)

wait, so you are actually trying to tell me that the way to answer my questions is to assume God does exist, that scriptures accurately represent His word, and that the scripture i should choose to follow is the Bible?

Actually, I’m saying that to be a Christian you must do so. You certainly don’t have to – but you would not be a Christain then and you would face the judgment of God for refusing. Note, however, that NO ONE can ‘assume God exists, that the scriptures are accurate, etc,’ unless God brings a change to that person’s reasoning – some call it regeneration, others ‘new birth’, others ‘life’ – regardless of the term, the fact remains that it can’t be done without God’s work.

asking that you first establish God's existence and that the Bible is an accurate record of God's will isn't my "view of what should be," it's called logic...it's not like i am making up these standards to suit me, that's simply how rational discourse works. you still persist with the theist misperception that all people have an assumption of God's existence; you folk usually seem to think that atheists and agnostics really do believe, deep down, and we are simply suppressing these feelings, when the reality is that we don't make your primary assumption of religiosity. you're telling us that we have to just take your word for it on one of the most important subjects in life...that shows a remarkably cavalier attitude about God, in my opinion.

The problem with ‘establishing’ God’s existence is that all of us, myself included, are sinners, and refuse to accept God – regardless of the ‘proofs’ offered. It cannot be done, not because the proof is not there, but because, as a sinner, all human beings reject it by nature. Belief in God is an inward change in a person brought about by God alone. I am not asking anyone to take my word for it! I am simply making plain statements that you can take or shed as you see fit. The Christian’s task is to make sure that Christianity is explained – what the hearer does with it is between that person and God. It is not cavalier in any fashion. I take my task seriously, and try to present it as clearly as possible without hiding any facts. In fact, I don’t even try to persuade anyone to become a Christian – because I cannot. Only God can create that faith within a person. I’m truly sorry you see my arguments as ‘irrational’ and cavalier – they are internally self consistent (hence logical – the conclusions all follow the premises) and as far as I am able, as truthful as I can offer.

your claim that a non-believer can never be made to believe because they are insisting God work on their terms is likewise hillarious. what you are saying is that God won't give us any logical basis for belief at all, nor will He give us physical evidence, nor will He give us any basis for determining which of the world's many faiths to follow, yet He will be angry with us if our essentially random guess at which faith to follow turns out to be wrong. what the hell kind of insane, impractical, illogical being would use such a system? why should i worship so silly a being, when all His infinite powers can't come up with a better means of dealing with we simple humans? why should i respect a Creator who sets humans apart from all other life by their powers of reason alone, and then makes it impossible for them to believe in Him if they use those powers?

I don’t find any hilarity in the notion. You ARE demanding that God be other than what He is, and if He just did that, you would certainly believe in Him – I don’t see why that is such a hard thing to digest! My father in law is a very intelligent Atheist, and he makes that argument very clearly – he states that He would never believe in a God that does “X” “Y” and “Z”, but WOULD believe in a God that did “A”, “B” and “C”. He is very honest about it, he knows that he has a set of dictums that he requires from a deity before he would ever believe in that deity.

Moreover, there is no ‘randomness’ to the offerings of religions: people pick wither one that satisfies their demands for what they determine to be good, or else they are given the faith to believe in the God that they formally rejected. There is no middle ground.

As well: there is physical evidence: the entire Scriptures in black and white. Simply because someone does not like them, or wants them to be different, cannot – logically speaking here – negate the fact that they are true. Grant for a moment that the Bible is true: would your rejection of it negate its’ truth? Would my rejection of the fact that 2 + 2 = 4 MAKE it equal 5? Of COURSE not! Pure Christianity is entirely self consistent within its own framework, even if it contradicts the desires of people, or dictates of other religious writings. Just because you reject it does not mean that it is false! It could very well be true anyway!

And has God created a people with reason, but then given a religion that makes it impossible to come to thru the use of that reason? No. However, man’s reason has been distorted by sin and he THEREFORE cannot reason his way to the truth: because sin is REJECTION of the truth! In other words: were you or I to be born sinless and morally perfect, we would easily reason our way to Christianity - in fact that wouldn’t even be necessary because we’d already be what God requires….But the sad fact remains that we are all born crippled by a hatred and rejection of that truth, and only an act of God can change that flaw in our reasoning.


what you basically are saying is that non-believers can never become believers unless they ignore fact, reality, and sense, and that they must decide with no reason whatsoever to follow your faith above all others. forgive me, but you sound like the sort of person who has believed all their life and still belongs to the same religion as your parents, making a better case for the effectiveness of habit than for the power of faith.

Actually what I am saying is that non-believers are incapable of believing because of their natural, inborn hatred of God. The statements I make contradict the world the non-believer perceives, because it requires that person to reject their notions of what God must be like, and accept what He is really like. There are millions of reasons and facts that Christians can offer to become a Christian – and no one abandons their reason to become a Christian – they simply see that all they knew previously was wrong (as Weird Al so aptly wrote). That I can tell you from personal experience.

One other note: I reject empiricism in entirety: I do not believe anything can be known by the senses. ‘Course, that’s a whole other subject…In any event, your claim that you have to abandon your sense to become a Christian isn’t in my argument, because I claim that you can’t even be sure that there is a computer in front of you based upon your senses.

um, no, that's not what i said. i said that God can't be all-knowing and ALL-GOOD...if he's all-good then he must be good to all people, at all times. that's what that means.
I disagree – the term “all-good” – as far as I can tell for the definition, is that WHAT GOD DOES is good – it does not mean that He is required to create sinless people. It would be nice if He had, but His plan obviously involves the knowledge of evil from experience rather than just information on our part. A Good Being can create things that rebel against Him and still remain Good within Himself
if he isn't all-good then he's just a very very powerful being, and may infact be making evil choices...that would mean we should be fighting against him, rather than worshipping him, or at the very least criticizing him for the decisions he makes that are wrong.
So true – have you read Descartes argument about the creative Demon?

unless, of course, you claim that whatever God does is, by definition, moral. in that case, we should not have laws against murder, rape, child abuse, etc, because God clearly is allowing them to happen and therefore they are good.
Not at all: God has established government for the express purpose of punishing evildoers. Nor am I claiming that because they happen, they are therefore good. I never made that claim. I state clearly that these things are evil – and that human beings do them. I stated that because the happened, God has an overarching reason for them that is good. An analogy would be the destruction of a crystal formation in order to create a beautiful gemstone: striking the stone to cut off parts is certainly violent, and evil, if striking something is defined as evil – but the end result is good. There is a large difference.
if there is, as you later claim, good that will come out of these things, and God will punish and reward offenders and victims in his own way, then we should not have any form of earthly justice at all; God has allowed these things to happen for a reason, and we cannot possibly punish people for simply carrying out God's will. if it wasn't His will that they happen He wouldn't have allowed them to take place, so by not using His all-powerfulness to stop them He has shown us that He wishes them to happen. by punishing offenders we are chastising those who carry out the will of God...that doesn't seem fair.
I do claim that good will come out of them later, but this does not negate the clear statements of God that human authorities have the obligation to punish evildoers here and now. The two things are not contradictory – maybe subaltern at the worst. People punishing people is also God’s will – and He holds those who both refrain from doing the right thing, and also committing a crime, responsible for their actions. We are not asked by God to be lazy oafs who sit back and take whatever He gives us as though He is some sort of vending machine. He requires certain actions from us: and holds us responsible (we must give our reason for doing them).
so you are saying that there is good that comes out of a 5 year old being repeatedly raped and then murdered by a sex offender. exactly what did that child learn from this experience? is the all-powerful God not capable of coming up with a better way to educate that child's soul, or was torture and death really necessary? i can think of plenty of ways to raise that child in love that would yield a happy, prosperous, helpful person...God seems to have prefered murdering a baby in the most painful way possible. doesn't seem like a good diety to me, at all.

You have partially captured my points, but have also gone an entirely different direction with others – I never claimed that repeated rape is some sort of lesson for the child, although God may use it that way for some particular reason. Whether the child learned something from the experience or not is irrelevant to the fact that God turns this evil act into a good in some way in the future. Possibly simply in the fact that He punishes the perpetrator may be the good: a lesson in what is evil for others. Perhaps laws are formed, or other punishments devised that decrease the chance of such crimes: I cannot give an answer for every single instance of a crime. But I can say this: it is not physical death that is to be dreaded: a child killed is removed from an evil situation and placed in a better one. It is the consequences of the crime to the perpetrator – AFTER physical death, that are far worse. Again, this can only be accepted from a Christian viewpoint because we understand that there are far worse things than physical death, and far better places to be than this current world. I don’t expect you to accept this – its just a fact I have to state. Wish you did, of course!

If God gives preferential or inconsistent treatment to people, then why worship? if we can't trust that His will is always right and fair, then why worship? just because somebody is very very powerful doesn't mean you ought to submit to them, it just means you need to work that much harder to break free of them when they go bad.

These are good points, and there is no answer that I can give you that will satisfy your desire to delineate God into the form you wish for Him. He does what He wants to do: and demands that all worship Him. His demand for worship is not based upon His ability to crush anyone who does not do so, but upon the claim that He created us and we therefore owe him allegiance. And regardless of the fact that He does punish some evildoers, there also remains the knowledge that He grants eternal happiness and goodness to others. I understand that it is irksome to think that we cannot force God to act how we want – that would be a very useful thing for our desires. It still remains that we can’t do it, and we have to accept that fact.

as i have already shown, the Christian definition of Good leads us to the conclusion that murder, rape, allowing people to starve or die of disease, torture, and all manner of other evils are Good. If God is all-powerful and all-good He would (by definition) be able and inclined to create a world free of evils.

Your conclusion does not follow your premise: if I am capable of building a box out of wood, but do not choose to do so, it does not therefore follow that I am therefore unable to do so. In the same manner – simply because God has allowed human beings to act in ways cruel to one another does not mean that He could not have created them to NOT do so. The only conclusion is that HE didn’t! You can question His motives, I think that is totally valid – but to say that because someone does not perform an action therefore means that they cannot is not a logical conclusion. Ability does not dictate inclination: I can drive a car, but instead I am sitting here typing – that does not mean I cannot drive!

Actually, I’m saying that to be a Christian you must do so. You certainly don’t have to – but you would not be a Christain then and you would face the judgment of God for refusing. Note, however, that NO ONE can ‘assume God exists, that the scriptures are accurate, etc,’ unless God brings a change to that person’s reasoning – some call it regeneration, others ‘new birth’, others ‘life’ – regardless of the term, the fact remains that it can’t be done without God’s work.

ahhh, so God has to talk to me for me to believe. therefore, i cannot and will not be punished in any way for my non-belief, since God has chosen not to make himself known to me (despite years of my persistent attempts to know Him and His nature). therefore, i have no reason to listen to you further, and no reason to show any interest in religion. thanks.

oh wait, except i don't buy any of what you are saying, so i'm actually just back where i started...


The problem with ‘establishing’ God’s existence is that all of us, myself included, are sinners, and refuse to accept God – regardless of the ‘proofs’ offered. It cannot be done, not because the proof is not there, but because, as a sinner, all human beings reject it by nature. Belief in God is an inward change in a person brought about by God alone. I am not asking anyone to take my word for it! I am simply making plain statements that you can take or shed as you see fit. The Christian’s task is to make sure that Christianity is explained – what the hearer does with it is between that person and God. It is not cavalier in any fashion. I take my task seriously, and try to present it as clearly as possible without hiding any facts. In fact, I don’t even try to persuade anyone to become a Christian – because I cannot. Only God can create that faith within a person. I’m truly sorry you see my arguments as ‘irrational’ and cavalier – they are internally self consistent (hence logical – the conclusions all follow the premises) and as far as I am able, as truthful as I can offer.


now we get to the wonderfully disfunctional heart of the matter. you poor saps believe that you are "sinners" and therefore unable (and unworthy) to question or reason at all. your pardon, but i simply have too much self esteem to enter into a dysfunctional relationship with your emotionally abusive imaginary friend.


I don’t find any hilarity in the notion. You ARE demanding that God be other than what He is, and if He just did that, you would certainly believe in Him – I don’t see why that is such a hard thing to digest! My father in law is a very intelligent Atheist, and he makes that argument very clearly – he states that He would never believe in a God that does “X” “Y” and “Z”, but WOULD believe in a God that did “A”, “B” and “C”. He is very honest about it, he knows that he has a set of dictums that he requires from a deity before he would ever believe in that deity.


i'm not demanding anything other than logical consistancy. God is more than welcome to not fit those parameters, but since (you claim) He created me then he will be fully aware of the powers of logical reasoning and rationality upon which my human consciousness is based. He certainly won't fault me for using the powers He endowed me with, or if He would then i have no desire to worship Him. no hell could be worse than an eternity in "heaven" with a being who would punish humans for using our most wonderful gifts.


Moreover, there is no ‘randomness’ to the offerings of religions: people pick wither one that satisfies their demands for what they determine to be good, or else they are given the faith to believe in the God that they formally rejected. There is no middle ground.

right. people pick the religion they want to believe in based on their own personal preconceptions. this decision has no more basis in empirical reality than one's choice of ice cream flavor, and nobody can make a truth claim that their ice cream flavor is objectively the best. therefore, the question of how to worship God is utterly irrelevant, and one who chooses not to worship at all is just as right as one who chooses to worship. therefore, there is no reason to be religious aside from personal emotional issues.


As well: there is physical evidence: the entire Scriptures in black and white. Simply because someone does not like them, or wants them to be different, cannot – logically speaking here – negate the fact that they are true. Grant for a moment that the Bible is true: would your rejection of it negate its’ truth? Would my rejection of the fact that 2 + 2 = 4 MAKE it equal 5? Of COURSE not! Pure Christianity is entirely self consistent within its own framework, even if it contradicts the desires of people, or dictates of other religious writings. Just because you reject it does not mean that it is false! It could very well be true anyway!


no, honeybunny, it doesn't work that way. the Wizard of Oz is also entirely consistent within itself, but that doesn't mean it is sane for somebody to base their life on the assumption that scarecrows come to life and dance about singing praises to wizards.

my rejection of the Bible isn't what makes it false, you're right. the empirical evidence proving the Bible to be internally inconsistent and historically incorrect is what makes the Bible false.


And has God created a people with reason, but then given a religion that makes it impossible to come to thru the use of that reason? No. However, man’s reason has been distorted by sin and he THEREFORE cannot reason his way to the truth: because sin is REJECTION of the truth! In other words: were you or I to be born sinless and morally perfect, we would easily reason our way to Christianity - in fact that wouldn’t even be necessary because we’d already be what God requires….But the sad fact remains that we are all born crippled by a hatred and rejection of that truth, and only an act of God can change that flaw in our reasoning.


again, your personal emotional problems and insecurities don't seem like a solid foundation for beliefs. also, you are pretty much just making things up to suit you; aparently, if one were to believe you, any reason that leads to a conclusion other than Christianity is SIN, and we awful naughty humans are just so full of that icky old sin that we can't possibly trust our reason. so why do we do anything? our reason is sinful and flawed, so why do we have earthly laws? why do we trust anything any human says? why trust the Bible, since horrid, sinful humans may have tainted it by adding their own reasoning (as history documents that they did)?

and why, exactly, would an all-powerful and all-good diety allow us to suffer in this way? why would he not give us the power to overcome our sins, rather than forcing us to be endlessly dependent on Him? is He really that insecure, that He must ensure we worship Him by keeping us hobbled eternally?

why would He make it so that good, rational people are lead astray by their wicked, sinful reason? why give us such a wonderful tool, only to tell us that we have to ignore it because some HUMANS messed up his plans by eating fruit a few thousand years ago? if He's really so pathetically weak that the actions of two naked fruit-eaters could corrupt His creation for 6000 years then he's not worth my attention, and if He's so petty that He would keep punishing us for things we didn't do then He is worthy of my disgust and pity.


Actually what I am saying is that non-believers are incapable of believing because of their natural, inborn hatred of God. The statements I make contradict the world the non-believer perceives, because it requires that person to reject their notions of what God must be like, and accept what He is really like. There are millions of reasons and facts that Christians can offer to become a Christian – and no one abandons their reason to become a Christian – they simply see that all they knew previously was wrong (as Weird Al so aptly wrote). That I can tell you from personal experience.


riiiiiiight. once again, you prove me totally right: you are, as most believers do, working under the misassumption that non-believers actually do believe in God and they actually hate him. you don't seem to get that we don't believe...we don't hate God any more than we hate Santa or the Easter Bunny, and to claim we do only shows how little you grasp.

as for believers using fact and reason, i gather you are saying they see that actual reason is sinful and wrong, but by subverting all thought and logic they can have "good" reason. okay. i have some kool-aid i would like to share with you....

after all, you spend most of your post talking about how we CAN'T trust reason, or our sense, and therefore your claim that there are facts supporting Christianity goes directly against your own claims. there can't be any such reasons or facts, because both our senses and our reason are useless; even if such reasons or facts existed, we would never be able to establish them or use them to form any conclusion, since we must first admit our sin blinds us in every significant way.

you have to make up your mind how you are going to argue, because right now you contradict yourself in alternating paragraphs.


One other note: I reject empiricism in entirety: I do not believe anything can be known by the senses. ‘Course, that’s a whole other subject…In any event, your claim that you have to abandon your sense to become a Christian isn’t in my argument, because I claim that you can’t even be sure that there is a computer in front of you based upon your senses.


right. so why do you trust the Bible? you only perceive it through your senses. it was written by people using empirical methods, who perceived God through their flawed senses.

do you even TRY to think this stuff through before you post? i mean, no offense, but it really seems like this is all just one long joke on your part. nobody could actually buy this tripe...could they?


I disagree – the term “all-good” – as far as I can tell for the definition, is that WHAT GOD DOES is good – it does not mean that He is required to create sinless people. It would be nice if He had, but His plan obviously involves the knowledge of evil from experience rather than just information on our part. A Good Being can create things that rebel against Him and still remain Good within Himself


sure, He can create rebelious things and still be Good. but if He creates things with the full knowledge and intention that they rebel, and then punishes them for doing exactly what He designed them to do, then He is unjust. Unjustness is not compatible with Goodness under any standards i am familiar with.


So true – have you read Descartes argument about the creative Demon?


yes, and like his "proof of God" i found it so easily refuted that i couldn't believe anybody ever regarded it as significant.


Not at all: God has established government for the express purpose of punishing evildoers. Nor am I claiming that because they happen, they are therefore good. I never made that claim. I state clearly that these things are evil – and that human beings do them. I stated that because the happened, God has an overarching reason for them that is good. An analogy would be the destruction of a crystal formation in order to create a beautiful gemstone: striking the stone to cut off parts is certainly violent, and evil, if striking something is defined as evil – but the end result is good. There is a large difference.


again, please explain to me what beauty comes from the violent death of a child. please explain what beauty is generated by a young woman being raped and murdered while walking home from school. explain to me the joy and wonder of the AIDS epidemic killing infants for the crime of being born in poverty. please share the beauty of God's work, and explain how an all-good and all-powerful being is consistent with these events. and, if He is, then explain why we use our flawed, sinful human senses and reason to try to combat these things; why do we challenge what He has brought about? who are we to use our puny logic to question the brilliance of His design? He clearly wants to smash these crystals to find the gems within, so why are we putting our selfish desires for earthly justice and compassion above His end result?


I do claim that good will come out of them later, but this does not negate the clear statements of God that human authorities have the obligation to punish evildoers here and now. The two things are not contradictory – maybe subaltern at the worst. People punishing people is also God’s will – and He holds those who both refrain from doing the right thing, and also committing a crime, responsible for their actions. We are not asked by God to be lazy oafs who sit back and take whatever He gives us as though He is some sort of vending machine. He requires certain actions from us: and holds us responsible (we must give our reason for doing them).


again, so God deliberately allows people to do evil, and this evil doing is part of His plan, but then He orders the rest of us to punish the people who did exactly what He planned for them to do? please explain how this is just or good.


You have partially captured my points, but have also gone an entirely different direction with others – I never claimed that repeated rape is some sort of lesson for the child, although God may use it that way for some particular reason. Whether the child learned something from the experience or not is irrelevant to the fact that God turns this evil act into a good in some way in the future. Possibly simply in the fact that He punishes the perpetrator may be the good: a lesson in what is evil for others. Perhaps laws are formed, or other punishments devised that decrease the chance of such crimes: I cannot give an answer for every single instance of a crime. But I can say this: it is not physical death that is to be dreaded: a child killed is removed from an evil situation and placed in a better one. It is the consequences of the crime to the perpetrator – AFTER physical death, that are far worse. Again, this can only be accepted from a Christian viewpoint because we understand that there are far worse things than physical death, and far better places to be than this current world. I don’t expect you to accept this – its just a fact I have to state. Wish you did, of course!

why would He need to punish a perpetrator if He instead stopped the crime from happening? why does He allow an evil person to harm a good person just to teach other Good people a horrible lesson? why not just talk to those people and teach them? what did the child do to deserve being thus sacrificed to the education of the majority? why doesn't God just let evil people be killed in horrid ways so we learn from them, rather than perpetuating cycles of violence that turn otherwise good people into wicked people?

and if, as you claim, a child who is killed is now in a better place, then shouldn't we delegate one Good Christian to go about murdering all infants before they have a chance to sin or to turn from God? then all those kids go straight to the better place, through no fault of their own, and live forever in happiness. sure, that one person doing the killing will burn forever, but they will have saved millions from suffering and pain in the world and sent them to be happy with God. if you actually believe that heaven is so wonderful, and if you actually love your family as much as i love mine, then you would kill them all right now to get them to that happy place as quickly as possible. i know that i would willingly sacrifice myself to provide an eternity of paradise for those i love...wouldn't you?


These are good points, and there is no answer that I can give you that will satisfy your desire to delineate God into the form you wish for Him. He does what He wants to do: and demands that all worship Him. His demand for worship is not based upon His ability to crush anyone who does not do so, but upon the claim that He created us and we therefore owe him allegiance. And regardless of the fact that He does punish some evildoers, there also remains the knowledge that He grants eternal happiness and goodness to others. I understand that it is irksome to think that we cannot force God to act how we want – that would be a very useful thing for our desires. It still remains that we can’t do it, and we have to accept that fact.


you don't seem to understand: i am asking you to show me how to worship. but you must first establish that yours is the right way to worship; i can't just take your word for it on something this important, you understand. and, after all, the stories used in the Bible have been around for thousands of years before that text was written, and they gave the dieties different names and different wishes...who am i to pray to, exactly? other, totally seperate religions have been around for millenia longer than Christianity, so how am i to ignore them in favor of some upstart collection of fables assembled by a secular dictator some 400 years after the events they purport to record?

i don't have any desire to force God to act according to my whims, nor does that ever "irk" me...again, you are assuming i believe in God. you really have to be able to let that go if we are going to have a productive discussion.

Your conclusion does not follow your premise: if I am capable of building a box out of wood, but do not choose to do so, it does not therefore follow that I am therefore unable to do so. In the same manner – simply because God has allowed human beings to act in ways cruel to one another does not mean that He could not have created them to NOT do so. The only conclusion is that HE didn’t! You can question His motives, I think that is totally valid – but to say that because someone does not perform an action therefore means that they cannot is not a logical conclusion. Ability does not dictate inclination: I can drive a car, but instead I am sitting here typing – that does not mean I cannot drive!
you don't seem to have read that stuff very carefully, try again... you totally missed my point!

I don't know if you'll accept my argument Bottle, and I don't want to put words in Tanelornia's mouth, but here's my take on the current argument.

It was noted by you, Bottle, that you demand a logical proof of Christianity without first accepting the existance of God as an axiom.

Tanelornia replied that such a proof by definition does not exist. I think that's correct. This is because we just can't make Christianity up. An infinite number of monkeys using an infinite number of typewriters couldn't make it up. It had to be revealed to humanity.

Later, Bottle, you claimed that by saying "such a proof by definition does not exist", Christians are denying the power of logic. As a Christian who kinda likes logic, it is still my opinion that logic isn't a faulty, broken idea. Our mathematical proofs still work, our economic theories still fly, our particle accelerators still churn out quarks. The argument was not that logic is broken, the argument was that logic cannot produce Christianity. My piano at home doesn't have a middle E-flat, so I can't play some songs. If someone asked me, "can you play Faure's Requiem in E-flat?" I would have to say "No." But I can still play Bach's Mass in B minor. If someone asked me, "can your logic produce Christianity?" I would have to say "No." But I can still investigate astronomy.

Perhaps you, Bottle, hate to live in a world where logic, because of sin, cannot produce Christianity. I don't know what to say here, besides that if it could, we wouldn't need Christianity to begin with.

I hope I haven't mischaracterized what you're saying.

I don't know if you'll accept my argument Bottle, and I don't want to put words in Tanelornia's mouth, but here's my take on the current argument.

It was noted by you, Bottle, that you demand a logical proof of Christianity without first accepting the existance of God as an axiom.

Tanelornia replied that such a proof by definition does not exist. I think that's correct. This is because we just can't make Christianity up. An infinite number of monkeys using an infinite number of typewriters couldn't make it up. It had to be revealed to humanity.
Which is a pretty stupid idea, to be sure. The truth needs no revealing. It simply is.

Later, Bottle, you claimed that by saying "such a proof by definition does not exist", Christians are denying the power of logic. As a Christian who kinda likes logic, it is still my opinion that logic isn't a faulty, broken idea. Our mathematical proofs still work, our economic theories still fly, our particle accelerators still churn out quarks. The argument was not that logic is broken, the argument was that logic cannot produce Christianity. My piano at home doesn't have a middle E-flat, so I can't play some songs.
Faulty analogy. You could play some songs if you fixed the middle e-flat.

If someone asked me, "can you play Faure's Requiem in E-flat?" I would have to say "No." But I can still play Bach's Mass in B minor. If someone asked me, "can your logic produce Christianity?" I would have to say "No." But I can still investigate astronomy.
Then your analogy contradicts whhat you said above. If you can't play some songs on your piano because of a broken string, and similarly you can't produce xerism from logic, then you are implying that logic is like that broken piano string!

Perhaps you, Bottle, hate to live in a world where logic, because of sin, cannot produce Christianity.
Ad hom fallacy and pure garbage.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

...

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?

Um, dude. Wow. Don't you think this is a wee bit excessive? Frankly, I'm stunned and impressed that so many people have attempted to answer this list.

Anyway, just a thought from a non-Christian - trim this down a little bit. OK, a lot. It's absurd to ask anyone to justify things like the Inquisition, so those don't help. And some of your items are taken out of context. I know you probably like the fact that you have 147 questions, but if your intent is to truly get discourse, then having 25 hard questions would be much better. Of course, if your intent is to start flame wars, then your list is just fine.

You mention that you sent this list to churches and didn't get any responses. That's because of the size of your list and the inflamatory nature of so many of the questions. If you make a list of 25 legitimate theological questions, and submit them respectfully, I bet you would get some good replies.

I don't know what your intent is, so maybe this isn't helpful.

Um, dude. Wow. Don't you think this is a wee bit excessive?

No.

Frankly, I'm stunned and impressed that so many people have attempted to answer this list.

So am I and I appreciate every answer.

It's absurd to ask anyone to justify things like the Inquisition

Not really.

And some of your items are taken out of context.

Like what? Oh wait, that would require you answering some of the questions.

Of course, if your intent is to start flame wars

That is a baseless accusation. I have never once on these forums tried to start a flame war.

That's because of the size of your list and the inflamatory nature of so many of the questions.

Sometimes the hardest questions to answer are the ones that question one's integrity. There are those who have strived to answer even the most inflammatory, and those who have balked at the whole list as pointless.

If you make a list of 25 legitimate theological questions, and submit them respectfully, I bet you would get some good replies.

Yes sir/Please sir/May I have some more sir kind of thing? Not my style. I merely ask the question, I do not seek a specific kind of answer. I only ask that people either speak through learned doctrine or from their heart.

maybe this isn't helpful.

In its own way, it is.

> > Um, dude. Wow. Don't you think this is a wee bit excessive?
> No.

OK, that's cool.

> > Frankly, I'm stunned and impressed that so many people have
> > attempted to answer this list.
> So am I and I appreciate every answer.

And you should!

>> It's absurd to ask anyone to justify things like the Inquisition
> Not really.

You only justify things that you believe in. Have you found a Catholic who says, "Yes, the Inquisition was a great time in Catholic history and was very worthwhile."?? Other than adding another notch to your list, I don't see its point. I think it merely detracts from the important questions you have.

> > And some of your items are taken out of context.
> Like what? Oh wait, that would require you answering some
> of the questions.

Fine. You state that Mark 7:25-29 indicates that Jesus is racist. Clearly this isn't about racism, unless you twist the meaning of this story completely. What point is served by doing so?

> > Of course, if your intent is to start flame wars
> That is a baseless accusation. I have never once on these forums
> tried to start a flame war.

I apologize profusely. I never intended, not in a million years, to accuse you of any such thing. Listen, my point was that this list is better suited to starting flame wars than for actually garnering real discussion. Like I said, I don't know what your true intent is, I was just commenting on it.

> Sometimes the hardest questions to answer are the ones that question
> one's integrity.

Right! Stick to those. If you have 20 hard questions, it is much more noticeable if people try to ignore 3 of them. With your list, people can just gloss over the sticky ones and answer the easy ones!

> There are those who have strived to answer even the
> most inflammatory, and those who have balked at the whole list as
> pointless.

> > If you make a list of 25 legitimate theological questions, and submit
> > them respectfully, I bet you would get some good replies.
>
> Yes sir/Please sir/May I have some more sir kind of thing? Not my style.
> I merely ask the question, I do not seek a specific kind of answer. I only
> ask that people either speak through learned doctrine or from their heart.

I guess you can try and have it both ways, if you want. That's up to you.

> > maybe this isn't helpful.
> In its own way, it is.

As Frank Sinatra sang, "I posted myyyyy way!"

[BAAWA says exactly what Bottle would have said if she got there first}

thanks, dude...saved me a bunch of time.

and i can't believe they are STILL trying to claim that i hate the thought of living in a world where logic is sin. I DON'T BELIEVE IN SIN. i cannot hate sin any more than i can hate purple unicorns. i am not capable of hating things that do not exist. i may hate the fact that some people create these false prisons as excuses to ignore their brain and their responsibility to common sense, but that's a whole different matter...i don't hate the idea of a world where logic cannot produce Christianity because that is the world we live in and i am quite happy about it. i love the fact that Christianity is logically false, because it's a boring idea made worse by boring practitioners. if it were logical then i would have to accept such boringness into my worldview.

and hey, Davistania, maybe you just hate the thought of living without a supernatural parent-figure making all the tough choices for you. maybe you just need an excuse to be lazy and irrational, and don't have the guts to come to terms with your own weakness. but i won't propose that either of those is the case, because (as BAAWA pointed out) they would be irrelevant and foolishly insulting statements based on nothing whatsoever.

I don't know if you'll accept my argument Bottle, and I don't want to put words in Tanelornia's mouth, but here's my take on the current argument.

It was noted by you, Bottle, that you demand a logical proof of Christianity without first accepting the existance of God as an axiom.

Tanelornia replied that such a proof by definition does not exist. I think that's correct. This is because we just can't make Christianity up. An infinite number of monkeys using an infinite number of typewriters couldn't make it up. It had to be revealed to humanity.

Which is a pretty stupid idea, to be sure. The truth needs no revealing. It simply is.

But it does need revealing. If we were perfect and knew the Truth to begin with, we wouldn't have this problem. If the truth simply is, why search for it? Why ask for it? Why discuss it? Why send a savior calling himself "the Truth"?

Later, Bottle, you claimed that by saying "such a proof by definition does not exist", Christians are denying the power of logic. As a Christian who kinda likes logic, it is still my opinion that logic isn't a faulty, broken idea. Our mathematical proofs still work, our economic theories still fly, our particle accelerators still churn out quarks. The argument was not that logic is broken, the argument was that logic cannot produce Christianity. My piano at home doesn't have a middle E-flat, so I can't play some songs.

Faulty analogy. You could play some songs if you fixed the middle e-flat. It's not faulty, just piss-poor. So let me continue it. Logic's like the entire piano, not the E-flat. It's 'Christianity' string doesn't play. Its psychology string does. Its meteorology string does.

So do you throw out the entire piano just because it can't play one note? No! You just do a different song. Just because logic cannot produce Christianity doesn't mean I throw logic out the window.


If someone asked me, "can you play Faure's Requiem in E-flat?" I would have to say "No." But I can still play Bach's Mass in B minor. If someone asked me, "can your logic produce Christianity?" I would have to say "No." But I can still investigate astronomy.

Then your analogy contradicts whhat you said above. If you can't play some songs on your piano because of a broken string, and similarly you can't produce xerism from logic, then you are implying that logic is like that broken piano string!

I'm not contradicting anything. You're saying that I'm saying that Christianity doesn't play with logic because we're silly little sheep who can't comprehend your big words and syllogisms. I'm suggesting that Christians have thought out reasons.

Perhaps you, Bottle, hate to live in a world where logic, because of sin, cannot produce Christianity.
Ad hom fallacy and pure garbage.

If we could produce it through logic, it destroys the idea of Christianity itself. Can you see how? If the entire thing is about how God has a plan that He reveals to humanity, this destroys that plan and it destroys God.

I'm not a Christian, but I will take a crack at these, and give a non-christian viewpoint. Besides, it say's more for my character, based on what I read about a true Christian avoiding these questions!

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

-I don't understand this, and find it hard to think that some dude, who lived 2,000 years ago can save my eternal soul. I find it ironic, that it was human vices that lead to the death of Jesus, who was supposed to save us from our vices!!!

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

-I sincerely doubt it. If people are good, then there is no reason why the should burn in hell. Also, Judiasm and other religion's were around longer than Christianity, and I believe that all God's (at least Monotheistic ones) are the same, and belief in one count's for belief in them all!

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

-If I was a member of any of these sects, I would feel bad for human ignorance, and whether a member or not, I'd hope that people will learn from these mistakes, and never let religious persecution happen again!

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

-I am not of these sects.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

-Ditto

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

-I haven't read these passages. Sorry!

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

-Same here!

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

-Well, I believe that today's discrimination of women is a direct descendant of christian discrimination in the past. I can't answer the question, but there's my two cents!

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

-I think that (not all) human's are wicked to some degree, and the right people in the right place can start things that are very WRONG!

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

-I think this is a very wrong practice...it's like submiting to a tyrannical government!

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

-God can't be wicked...only people who are genuinely evil should be destined for hell...but if all these "good" people are going to hell as well, Hell couldn't be that bad, could it?

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

-Cold blooded murder...only if there is absolutely no remorse or attempt to rectify the problem!

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

-That's just silly...

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

-Human ignorance. People didn't know what was happening, and took the easy way out, by blaming it on something that was hard to disprove...rather than try to work hard and prove what it really was.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

-The personality doesn't rest in the soul.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

-You can't. You would have to accept that your loved one could not be with you, or choose to go to hell to be with the one you loved.

17. What is Heaven like?

-Why should I know...I'm not dead.

18. What is Hell like?

-Same thing...

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

-It shouldn't exist. Just like one dead man can't save me from sin, neither can two sinful people cause ever-lasting sin.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

-That's just silly...Water does nothing...other than the miracles water does, like give and sustain life, and whatnot...

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

-Best guess, temptation. To see if human's could resist. In my view, the story of Adam and Eve is just a fable, much like the myth's of the Greek, Roman's, Norse and others. It is a story meant to teach us to avoid temptation.

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

-Sex isn't bad. It's a very beautiful thing.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

-Jesus was a man, and knew no more than a man could know. No man know's when or how the world will end.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

-Probably a Hollywood special effect. The stories were most likely fabricated for entertainment, or as a way to get people drawn into faith. Human's like hard facts, not flimsy faith based stories, and what better way than to add that to the book, that miracles really do exist!

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

-Good question...I know not.

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

-I too would like to know this. Perhaps just leaps of faith one must overcome to be a christian? Also, what Bible exists that hasn't been fabricated by man?

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

-Beastial ignorance? A by-product of evolution? Who knows... What I want to know, is why human's can't eat meat, when animal's can...(I'm not saying that Christians say you can't eat meat...it's just directed towards Vegetarians...)

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

-Teach us a lesson or something...

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

-Non-christians sometimes call this a "scare tactic", and treat it as that...a method to get more people to join a religion...I believe hell is worth noting, but not something to be feared.

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

-What? I didn't know God made sinners sin...I too would like to know!

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

-Judas is in hell? But he sang so beautifully in "Jesus Christ, Superstar"...Although, that one makes sense...one man sentenced to eternal damnation in exchange for the whole human race's salvation...

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

-Yes...one would think that...Although, Jesus suffered more than three hours of pain...I watched "Sister Wendy" last night, and there was a painting depicting Jesus blindfolded and being walloped. Apperantly, he was supposed to be all knowing, and he should know who hit him, even though he was blindfolded. I'm sure there were more trials like this one...

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

-I don't think we should...but it's all we have to trust. It's better to have false hope than real dispair.

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

-Yeah, don't think he "created" homosexuals, but I doubt he's against them...

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

-I beleive that they are both the same thing, and that the fear of spellcasting only stems from human ignorance, yet again.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

-The Roman's were influencial, and I bet, because he was a pain, that they tried to deliberatly destroy documents that praised Jesus, but because of his martyr status, they also were afraid to print anything negative about him...Just speculation.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

-Well, the fact that billion's of people have believed in him makes it hard to believe he couldn't have existed. Although, it could be the best hoax ever!!!

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

-One knows not...



Sorry...gotta go, but I might answer more Q's later...

and i can't believe they are STILL trying to claim that i hate the thought of living in a world where logic is sin. I DON'T BELIEVE IN SIN. i cannot hate sin any more than i can hate purple unicorns. i am not capable of hating things that do not exist.

First, I never said that using logic was sinful. Using it to create Christianity is fruitless and sinful, but logic as an abstract isn't sinful. I'm not ignoring my brain. I'm not ignorant. I've thought an awful lot about this. Other people have thought an awful lot about this. If I'm not articulating this, it's my problem.

You don't believe in sin? You think we're all perfect? Then what did you mean by saying you thought rape and murder were wrong? Rape and murder aren't sins? I'm truly curious here, because you deny sin while condemning rape and murder on moral grounds. We all have a conscience, so I expect no argument here. Sin provides a framework for those moral grounds, it throws them into relief. Really, I'd like to ask what is right or wrong to you if you do not believe in sin.

i may hate the fact that some people create these false prisons as excuses to ignore their brain and their responsibility to common sense, but that's a whole different matter...i don't hate the idea of a world where logic cannot produce Christianity because that is the world we live in and i am quite happy about it. i love the fact that Christianity is logically false, because it's a boring idea made worse by boring practitioners. if it were logical then i would have to accept such boringness into my worldview.
I'm not trying to ignore my brain. I'm really just trying to communicate.

I don't know if you'll accept my argument Bottle, and I don't want to put words in Tanelornia's mouth, but here's my take on the current argument.

It was noted by you, Bottle, that you demand a logical proof of Christianity without first accepting the existance of God as an axiom.

Tanelornia replied that such a proof by definition does not exist. I think that's correct. This is because we just can't make Christianity up. An infinite number of monkeys using an infinite number of typewriters couldn't make it up. It had to be revealed to humanity.
Which is a pretty stupid idea, to be sure. The truth needs no revealing. It simply is.
But it does need revealing.
No it doesn't. We discover that which is true and can prove it. Truth is never revealed.

If we were perfect and knew the Truth to begin with, we wouldn't have this problem.
So are you equating discover with reveal? tsk-tsk if you are.

If the truth simply is, why search for it? Why ask for it? Why discuss it? Why send a savior calling himself "the Truth"?
Because you don't grasp the English language. "The truth simply is" means that it is there to be discovered.

Later, Bottle, you claimed that by saying "such a proof by definition does not exist", Christians are denying the power of logic. As a Christian who kinda likes logic, it is still my opinion that logic isn't a faulty, broken idea. Our mathematical proofs still work, our economic theories still fly, our particle accelerators still churn out quarks. The argument was not that logic is broken, the argument was that logic cannot produce Christianity. My piano at home doesn't have a middle E-flat, so I can't play some songs.
Faulty analogy. You could play some songs if you fixed the middle e-flat.
It's not faulty, just piss-poor. So let me continue it. Logic's like the entire piano, not the E-flat. It's 'Christianity' string doesn't play. Its psychology string does. Its meteorology string does.
Then you contradict yourself when you say that logic isn't broken. Clearly, it is.

So do you throw out the entire piano just because it can't play one note?
You could always be honest and admit that xerism is horribly illogical and has no rational basis.

No! You just do a different song. Just because logic cannot produce Christianity doesn't mean I throw logic out the window.
But you are. If you admit that xerism is illogical yet you believe it, you're tossing logic out!

If someone asked me, "can you play Faure's Requiem in E-flat?" I would have to say "No." But I can still play Bach's Mass in B minor. If someone asked me, "can your logic produce Christianity?" I would have to say "No." But I can still investigate astronomy.
Then your analogy contradicts whhat you said above. If you can't play some songs on your piano because of a broken string, and similarly you can't produce xerism from logic, then you are implying that logic is like that broken piano string!
I'm not contradicting anything.
Yes, you are. You said that logic isn't broken. But if it cannot come up with xerism, then there must be something wrong with it, right?

You're saying that I'm saying that Christianity doesn't play with logic because we're silly little sheep who can't comprehend your big words and syllogisms.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and thanks for admitting that you detest people who are more intelligent than you.

I'm suggesting that Christians have thought out reasons.
Actually, most of them believe because they were taught to, which isn't a thought-out reason.

Perhaps you, Bottle, hate to live in a world where logic, because of sin, cannot produce Christianity.
Ad hom fallacy and pure garbage.
If we could produce it through logic, it destroys the idea of Christianity itself.
Then xerism is illogical.

Can you see how? If the entire thing is about how God has a plan that He reveals to humanity, this destroys that plan and it destroys God.
Thus god is illogical.

You don't believe in sin? You think we're all perfect? Then what did you mean by saying you thought rape and murder were wrong? Rape and murder aren't sins? I'm truly curious here, because you deny sin while condemning rape and murder on moral grounds. We all have a conscience, so I expect no argument here. Sin provides a framework for those moral grounds, it throws them into relief. Really, I'd like to ask what is right or wrong to you if you do not believe in sin.

i believe morality is purely subjective, and therefore there is no such thing as a sin. when i referred to murder and rape i was appealing to the concept of morality commonly held by persons with religious belief systems. i happen to think that rape and murder and the like are wrong, too, but i don't claim that is an objective fact; it is enlightened self interest, nothing more, on my part. i feel bad when somebody does those things, especially if they do them to me or somebody i love, so i wish to advance the attitude that they are wrong because then my quality of life will be improved.

unlike believers, i don't assume that objective reality has to match up with my personal preferences. i don't need an objective morality to act according to my morals, nor do i need objective morality to show compassion, love, and kindness to others. i don't need to fear hell or want heaven to be a good person; i have morality beyond the punishment-reward system.

i believe in living by my principles, and that it would be wrong for me to try to claim they are anything more than my principles. they aren't immutible laws of nature or moral constants, and they don't need to be.

[BAAWA rocks again]
yay, so glad you will make these points!!!

i think it's cute that he can say logic doesn't (and can't) lead to Christianity, but then insists that he doesn't throw out logic when choosing to believe in Christianity. that's really neat reasoning, i've never quite seen somebody who was able to convince themselves that they can still be a vegitarian if they eat a steak every day...after all, they still are vegitarian about everything ELSE they eat, so they aren't throwing out vegitarianism, they just ignore it when it comes to a huge, glaring contradiction that renders their claim of vegitarianism utterly absurd.

Then you contradict yourself when you say that logic isn't broken. Clearly, it is.
So when I postulate that logic cannot produce Christianity, it breaks logic? I don't think so. I don't see where I'm contradicting. Please be more specific.


You could always be honest and admit that xerism is horribly illogical and has no rational basis. Isn't that what I did say? Chistianity is not based on the logical systems of man, but on the will of God.


But you are. If you admit that xerism is illogical yet you believe it, you're tossing logic out! My point was I don't accept Christianity on logic. I accept it on faith. But I can still study law or biology using logic. That's what I mean when I say it isn't broken.


You're saying that I'm saying that Christianity doesn't play with logic because we're silly little sheep who can't comprehend your big words and syllogisms.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and thanks for admitting that you detest people who are more intelligent than you.

I'm suggesting that Christians have thought out reasons.
Actually, most of them believe because they were taught to, which isn't a thought-out reason.
I'm big enough to apologize. Just a bit of misplaced frustration at not being able to articulate my point.

So let's back up just one step and let me have another go at this. Let's assume that logic can produce Christianity. That you or I could just think it up. Here's what we would think up: a system that explicitly says that humanity needs help. That it can't rely on itself for salvation. That humanity is inherently sinful. If we *could* think up Christianity in the first place, we wouldn't need Christianity to begin with. Is that understandable?

What I think Davistania is saying about logic is something like, just because a plastic shovel can't build an aircraft carrier, you don't discard it- you just stick to building sandcastles with it. Just because Christianity (apparently) can't be produced by logic, it doesn't mean that it can't be produced.

But anyway, what does Christianity say that can't be produced by logic, or logical extrapolation from experience? With the exception of a shitload of backstory(Which makes it more gripping, so is logically included) you get values like love thy neighbour, community spirit, and law and order. Philosophers have been talking about the hopelessness of the majority of mankind for millennia, you don't need a prophet to tell us we all screw on occassion.

But anyway, what does Christianity say that can't be produced by logic, or logical extrapolation from experience? With the exception of a shitload of backstory(Which makes it more gripping, so is logically included) you get values like love thy neighbour, community spirit, and law and order. Philosophers have been talking about the hopelessness of the majority of mankind for millennia, you don't need a prophet to tell us we all screw on occassion.

"Love thy neighbor, community spirit, and law and order"- all are Law. What's missing is the Gospel. Atonement. Salvation.

That's what I was saying about logic, thanks for making it more clear. That's where I was trying to go with the piano analogy, but you accomplish the same thing with a plastic shovel. Pianos, shovels, it's all good.

I'm not going to join this happy debate, but Keruvalia, those are questions I've been asking for quite some time now.

Did you put that together yourself or get it from somewhere?

Keruvalia, I am not Christian, I don't believe in heaven/hell etc and I don't think that anyone could answer these questions, but I do believe this: You are MY God.

one of these days i'm going to answer ALL these questions for you.

but be warned: i'm an agnostic jew, albeit a Jesuit-educated one. this should be interesting.

Ok, I've gone through and answered everything I can. I'm just getting feedback from a friend of mine before I post it, though, to be sure I get it right. Expect the reply sometime tomorrow...*looks at clock*...today.

There are a few I didn't know enough about to answer...Hopefully (most likely) my friend'll be able to, though.

BTW, if you want a more personal convo, AIM: insane3rhyno

Again, back to answering your questions, Keruvalia.

81. What exactly is faith? Hebrews 11 tells us pretty explicitly. I’ve quoted only the first six verses, though indeed it is a theme of the entire book.

Hebrews 11:1-6
“Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for.
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible. All of them do? No. Mine doesn’t at least. It’s the Word of God: why ignore it?

Deuteronomy 4:2
”Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.”


83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers? It was a test of Job’s faith. It was also pretty important on a bigger level. If people believed in God just because it got them cool stuff, we’re in big trouble. The entire book refutes the point that if bad things happen to you it’s God getting back at you. I can’t quote individual passages here, just read the entire book.

84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)? This was all a part of Jesus’ humiliation. When he became a man, he came to show us how to pray, and because he was a man, he had to do it himself.

85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5. The point in those passages is not that there is no life after death, but no mortal life. We can’t come back to life three days later. We only get one shot.

It’s not saying that our spiritual lives are over, however.

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1. No. This was the entire point of his coming to Earth. His perfect life and sacrificial, redeeming death on the cross were the primary goal. Preaching and teaching were second.

87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?

Typically, it is interpreted in what kind of Messiah Jesus was supposed to be. The first temptation (“tell these stones to become bread”) was tempting Jesus to use his power for his own needs. Jesus’ reply (“Man does not live on bread alone”) shows that material things aren’t as important as the word of God.

The second temptation (“throw yourself down [off the highest point of the temple]”) was tempting him to win a large following by miracles or magic. If this happened, we wouldn’t believe in Jesus because he was our Savior, we’d believe in him because he could do that water to wine trick at all of our parties.

The third temptation (“bow down and worship me”), asked Christ to compromise with Satan. Jesus did no such thing.

88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes. In the United States, I’d say so. Prayer can certainly be done in large groups, but it is an expression of the unity of faith and fellowship of that group. It’s certainly unconstitutional, and also not biblical.

89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").

They don’t. Matthew goes on to say in verse 50: “And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.”

Mark says in verse 37, “With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.”

Luke says in verse 46, “Jesus called out with a loud voice, ‘Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.’ When he had said this, he breathed his last.”

John’s “It is finished” is probably what Matthew and Mark were talking abut with the big cry.

So here it is chronologically, just as the Gospels say: “Why have you forsaken me?”…grumble in the crowd…”Into your hands…”, followed by the big cry, “It is finished.”

If you were talking about a contradiction, this isn’t one.

90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death? He didn’t. That isn’t a more accurate translation. Mark gives the translation for his readers, as does Matthew.

91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer. A shepherd that leads his flock to their destruction isn’t good, is it? A good shepherd takes care of the flock.

Also, note that Jesus is sometimes called “The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” This does have a sacrificial overtone to it, and is representative of the entire Gospel message.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer. It is more likely scientifically. But man cannot find God with science. God says He created the universe, and his word is true.

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent? Because he created Hell to begin with. It’s like a prison. That’s how.

94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9. The Jeremiah passage was about calling Jeremiah to be a prophet against his own volition, and Jeremiah was running into unanticipated suffering. It wasn’t lying. The Ezekiel passage is about God hardening and testing his people. God doesn’t lie.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has? He doesn’t.

96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer. The sexual terms of male and female don’t apply to God. Still, I pray to Him and call him Father. As someone said, it’s hierarchy, not gender.

97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer. We don’t worship angels or the virgin Mary. It’s one God in three persons. It’s a little hard to understand, but it’s still one God.

98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it? You do need to read it all. I have.

99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37? 2 Kings 19 is a historical account of the nation of Israel. At that point, Isaiah becomes a part of that history. The book of Isaiah contains the words of the prophet Isaiah. This is where the history and prophecy overlap.

Think of one as a textbook on American History and another on Abraham Lincoln’s diary. The history textbook could include a key entry.

100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)? Jesus’ three days in Hell was part of his exultation, not humiliation. He descended into Hell not as a punishment, but to say that salvation was won.

1 Peter 3:18-20
“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.”

anyone read 'The Davinci Code'? it probably doesn't answer your questions but it sure makes you think.

In the United States, I’d say so. Prayer can certainly be done in large groups, but it is an expression of the unity of faith and fellowship of that group. It’s certainly unconstitutional, and also not biblical.

eh?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The government cannot show favoritism, but they can't do anything to stop it. Prohibiting prayer in school is just that, prohibiting my free exercise thereof.

As for biblical: 1 Thessalonians 5:17. I'm still looking for more.
Also, that verse about not praying in public is more of not praying in public for the purpose of showing off. You can pray in public, but when you do, pray as if you were in a closet and no one else was around.


Still waiting for a reply from my friend. Soon as I get it back I'll post all my answers.

eh?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The government cannot show favoritism, but they can't do anything to stop it. Prohibiting prayer in school is just that, prohibiting my free exercise thereof.

You miss the point of the Amendment. Pray all you want as an individual, so long as it doesn't interfere with your schools studies. The school can not have a mandated time for prayer and certainly not a specific prayer (such as the "Lord's Prayer" from the Christian faith) that favors one religion over another. So pray as an individual as often as you need to, but don't expect the government or the schools to introduce "prayer" time or an official prayer.

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation. I usually use the New International Version. It was a little bit better translation, I think. In any case, this translation accurately shows the will of God, and I’m not really committed to any one version besides ones that accurately translate God’s Word.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me. That was his primary job, to die for your sins. What’s Christianity without the crucifixion and resurrection?

Still, think about his ministry and what he taught.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer. No, she was not raped by God. I’ve included the rest of the account so it’s easier to see.

Luke 1:26-38
“In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, ‘Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.’
Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.’
’How will this be,’ Mary asked the angel, ‘since I am a virgin?’
The angel answered, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God.’
’I am the Lord's servant,’ Mary answered. ‘May it be to me as you have said.’”

Notice Mary’s answer. It wasn’t rape.

104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39). He knew he would be crucified. He didn’t try to avoid it. The passage you chose is Christ’s prayer in Gethsemane. He was asking if there was any other way salvation could be accomplished. The answer was no, so he did his Father’s will as opposed to his own. Just look at the same chapter a few verses later.

Matthew 26:50-54
“Jesus replied, ‘Friend, do what you came for.’
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
’Put your sword back in its place,’ Jesus said to him, ‘for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?’"

105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father? This deals with the inner workings of the Trinity, which no one can really understand. However, let’s look at a similar aspect, the Creation account. We credit God the Father with creating that, while in John it says that Jesus was active.

It was explained to me like this: I’m building an office building. I’ll talk to a contractor and get Big Earl’s Construction to do the job or whatever. Maybe Big Earl will send one really good worker named Sven to do the job. People later would ask, “Who built that building?” And I would say Big Earl. All the members of the Trinity are present here, too.

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard? He needed to be to fulfill prophecy and not be sinful.

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality? No. The idea of a God becoming a man is filled with compassion and love. Of being close to God. Bestiality isn’t even close to the same thing.

108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)? Again, you’re caught up in sex and gender, not thinking that it doesn’t really apply to God in a sexual way, rather an orderly way.

109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble? Maybe it was divinely revealed to him. Or maybe he just found out. If he was with the rest of the disciples the entire time and they didn’t steal the body, then he knew that gossip on the street was gossip. Figuring out where it came from wouldn’t be hard- who put the guy to death to begin with?

As for why the other gospels don’t mention it, that still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The Roman soldiers wouldn’t have gotten in trouble because they had to report to the Romans.

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason? It thinks people can justify themselves while ignoring that we’re sinful. That’s not mature, it’s selfish. If we can perfect ourselves, what do we need with God?

111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5? It talks about the inherent sinful nature of man. If we didn’t have one, we wouldn’t need a savior. It was written after King David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.

112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters? Again, those two verses talk about original sin. I don’t see how that’s connected to predestination.

On the topic of predestination anyway, again I can just repeat that salvation is from God, damnation is from man. To say that God predestines some to salvation is true. To infer that God predestines some to damnation is false.

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him? It does foster a dependency on God. But it’s not unnatural or unhealthy. I rely on God for salvation. I don’t rely on God to magically pay my bills. I don’t rely on God to send me that cool pair of jeans like manna in the desert.

114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph? Joseph was the legal father. We now think of these things in purely biological terms, but the Jews would understand.

115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker
(supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference. I think that giving up my son as a sacrifice would be harmful and destructive. Still, Abraham had the faith in God to be willing to do just that.

So I would do what God told me to, knowing that he has a really good reason for it.

116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer. Sometimes I’ve heard it represents the six hills of Rome, or how 6 is a bad figurative number because it is 1 less than 7, a holy number. Or it could be a code for a name of a person born a thousand years ago or who is yet to be born.

Revelation is confusing, and much of it is symbolic. We’ll know the answers eventually, though.

117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12). Keep reading.

1 Kings 11:9-13
“The LORD became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD , the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD's command. So the LORD said to Solomon, ‘Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.’"

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said. He did some wise things, he did some bad things. The bad things he did don’t make his wise things bad. The wise things he did don’t make his bad things good. Everyone does good things and bad things, even Solomon, even David.

119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood). Yes. Again, sex isn’t bad, it’s a gift of god. See my reply to that question again.

120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings). Get your tin-foil deflector beanies ready kids, Ollie North’s been reading scripture!

It wasn’t stolen from the Egyptians. It’s a cross because Jesus died on one. Sometimes we use a fish because we should be “fishers of men” and the Greek letters for Christ make a little fish shape.

"It wasn’t stolen from the Egyptians. It’s a cross because Jesus died on one. Sometimes we use a fish because we should be “fishers of men” and the Greek letters for Christ make a little fish shape."

Not quite, but good idea!
The first letters of a phrase (don't remember quite what it is, something like, "Jesus Christ is Lord of All" or something like that) spells "fish" in greek.
Also, the fishers of men thing.
Lastly, in the times of incredibly harsh persecution, the fish would be a test for Christians. One would draw one half of the fish, the other would draw the other half, thus showing that he was a Christian, because he knew of the sign.

You miss the point of the Amendment. Pray all you want as an individual, so long as it doesn't interfere with your schools studies. The school can not have a mandated time for prayer and certainly not a specific prayer (such as the "Lord's Prayer" from the Christian faith) that favors one religion over another. So pray as an individual as often as you need to, but don't expect the government or the schools to introduce "prayer" time or an official prayer.

I'm not talking about the gov't making a time for prayer, I'm talking about how teachers can get fired simply because they prayed in front of the kids. I'm not talking lead them in prayer or anything, I'm talking just was praying and a kid saw them, told, and he gets fired.

The government cannot show favoritism, but they can't do anything to stop it. Prohibiting prayer in school is just that, prohibiting my free exercise thereof.

I didn't mean that prayer was unconstitutional, just that mandatory school prayer was. Also saying "You don't have to pray if you don't want to" isn't good enough.

Of course you, as a private individual, can pray whenever you want. That's your right. You can do it at a school, do it in a dentist office, do it in a Burger King. You just can't hijack a public school and recite the Lord's Prayer over the loudspeaker. That isn't a prayer in the first place.

I'm not talking about the gov't making a time for prayer, I'm talking about how teachers can get fired simply because they prayed in front of the kids. I'm not talking lead them in prayer or anything, I'm talking just was praying and a kid saw them, told, and he gets fired.

Where did this happen?

I'm not talking about the gov't making a time for prayer, I'm talking about how teachers can get fired simply because they prayed in front of the kids. I'm not talking lead them in prayer or anything, I'm talking just was praying and a kid saw them, told, and he gets fired.

That never happened, did it? In some other country maybe, but that is a textbook example of what we have the first amendment for. Any high school civics student could hit that case out of the ballpark, let alone a public defender.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

Because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

They went to either the Bosom of Abraham/Paradise or Sheol based upon their relationship with God. That was between them and God. Except for nephilim. Many life forms on earth in the past and present are NOT human.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

Bad theology.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

Bad theology.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

Bad theology.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

You have whacked translations. The creator is perfect.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

Racism is GREAT !!! We are all of the human race except for nephilim. Some nephilimn/aliens will go to hell. Yes, God had human favorites. To the jew first for example. And the jewish reality was so strong that when we hear the name Solomon we think, wisdom, power, wealth... When we hear Napoleon, Hitler, Hanurabi, Cleopatra, Caesar, or Alexander the Great we simply think ALSO RAN...

MORE ON THIS LATER ! Did you see these Islamic Jihad rag head retards ?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtml


8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

17. What is Heaven like?

18. What is Hell like?

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

58. Where is Heaven?

59. Where is Hell?

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.

65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.

68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

70. What is sin, exactly?

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?

77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)

78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.

80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.

81. What exactly is faith?

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.

83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?

84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?

85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?

88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.

89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").

90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?

91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?

94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?

96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer.

97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.

98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?

99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.

104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).

105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?

108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?

109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?

111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?

112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?

114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker
(supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.

116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.

117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.

119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood).

120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?

125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?

126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?

127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?

130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?

131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?

132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?

133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?

134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?

135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?

136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?

137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?

138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.

139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?

141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize.

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.

144. What is your definition of the word Christian?

145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?

. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

Because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

They went to either the Bosom of Abraham/Paradise or Sheol based upon their relationship with God. That was between them and God. Except for nephilim. Many life forms on earth in the past and present are NOT human.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

Bad theology.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

Bad theology.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

Bad theology.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

You have whacked translations. The creator is perfect.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

Racism is GREAT !!! We are all of the human race except for nephilim. Some nephilimn/aliens will go to hell. Yes, God had human favorites. To the jew first for example. And the jewish reality was so strong that when we hear the name Solomon we think, wisdom, power, wealth... When we hear Napoleon, Hitler, Hanurabi, Cleopatra, Caesar, or Alexander the Great we simply think ALSO RAN...

MORE ON THIS LATER ! Did you see these Islamic Jihad rag head retards ?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/95178_du12.shtml

Where did this happen?
I couldn't give any one example, I know it's happened plenty of times.
I've also talked to personal teachers about it.

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians? I have no idea. Christians are sinners just as non-Christians are. I haven’t seen that statistic, but it doesn’t mean that what Christians try to follow isn’t correct. See my earlier replies about Imperialism, Inquisition, etc.

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland? Important doctrinal differences between Catholicism and Protestantism are Justification by Faith, the legitimacy of Papal Authority. There are a lot more (like Virgin Mary worship, purgatory, limbo, clerical abstinence, etc.), but the fighting in Ireland is not about religion. I live in a city with Catholics and we don’t fight each other. Christianity is not the cause of that conflict, it’s just politics.

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac? A worship service that leaves it at, “God, you are the MAN! You rock!” isn’t a very good worship service. Rather, we usually have one that retells the Gospel and the confession and absolution of sins through the service itself. It’s not an ego thing.

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls? We’re created in the image of Adam, now.

Genesis 5:3
“When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image”

125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system? I think you’re just being silly, here. If the Bible set up an ethical system that said, “Drink the blood of the innocent. Ahhhh! Angst! Ahhhh!” then I could see your point.

126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?

The Old Testament passages refer to the nation of Israel, which God worked through to execute his plan of judgment and salvation.

The passage in Matthew doesn’t say to start the inquisition. It says that people will oppose Christianity, and we should be prepared for this. We shouldn’t kill them, however, but rather preach to them.

127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?

The passage in Numbers 23 is not saying that Israel hasn’t done anything wrong. It is saying that Israel is God’s Chosen people. He’s forgiven them. This happened back in chapter 21.

Numbers 21:7
“The people came to Moses and said, ‘We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us.’ So Moses prayed for the people.”

Note that Numbers 23 is being proclaimed through Balaam, a guy radically opposed to Israel and God.

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act? I already answered this, but if God says, “Don’t eat that apple.” You don’t eat it.

Eating the apple was rebelling against God.

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him? Jesus took our place. See question 1.

130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus? One was the legal descent of Jesus, the other was the biological descent of Jesus. For example, one could go through a step-father after one father was killed. There were a few more ways that you could have a different father than your biological one.

131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?

Matthew 27:9-10
“Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: ‘They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me.’"

Jeremiah 32:6-10
“Jeremiah said, ‘The word of the LORD came to me: Hanamel son of Shallum your uncle is going to come to you and say, 'Buy my field at Anathoth, because as nearest relative it is your right and duty to buy it.'
’Then, just as the LORD had said, my cousin Hanamel came to me in the courtyard of the guard and said, 'Buy my field at Anathoth in the territory of Benjamin. Since it is your right to redeem it and possess it, buy it for yourself.'
’I knew that this was the word of the LORD ; so I bought the field at Anathoth from my cousin Hanamel and weighed out for him seventeen shekels [2] of silver. I signed and sealed the deed, had it witnessed, and weighed out the silver on the scales.”

Jeremiah 19:1-13
“This is what the LORD says: ‘Go and buy a clay jar from a potter. Take along some of the elders of the people and of the priests and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. There proclaim the words I tell you, and say, 'Hear the word of the LORD , O kings of Judah and people of Jerusalem. This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Listen! I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD , when people will no longer call this place Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.
In this place I will ruin the plans of Judah and Jerusalem. I will make them fall by the sword before their enemies, at the hands of those who seek their lives, and I will give their carcasses as food to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth. I will devastate this city and make it an object of scorn; all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff because of all its wounds. I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives.’
‘Then break the jar while those who go with you are watching, and say to them, 'This is what the LORD Almighty says: I will smash this nation and this city just as this potter's jar is smashed and cannot be repaired. They will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. This is what I will do to this place and to those who live here, declares the LORD . I will make this city like Topheth. The houses in Jerusalem and those of the kings of Judah will be defiled like this place, Topheth-all the houses where they burned incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods.' "

Jeremiah 18:2-12
"Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you my message." So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.
Then the word of the LORD came to me: ‘O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?’ declares the LORD . ‘Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, 'This is what the LORD says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.' But they will reply, 'It's no use. We will continue with our own plans; each of us will follow the stubbornness of his evil heart.' "

Zechariah 11:12-13
“I told them, ‘If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.’ So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.
And the LORD said to me, ‘Throw it to the potter’-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.”

So both Zechariah and Jeremiah had parts in this prophecy Matthew quotes. It’s a bit of an amalgam of the two parts. Matthew credits Jeremiah because Jeremiah was a major prophet while Zecharaiah was a minor prophet.

132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament? According to my study bible,

“These exact words are not found in the OT and probably refer to several OT prefigurations and/or predictions (note the plural, “prophets”) that the Messiah would be despised (e.g. Ps 22:6; Isa 53:3), for in Jesus’ day “Nazarene” was virtually a synonym for “despised” (see Jn 1:45-46). Some hold that in speaking of Jesus as a “Nazarene,” Matthew is referring primarily to the word “Branch” (Hebrew neser) in Isa 11:1”

133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)? You can’t ride on two animals. That’s not what Matthew meant. He rode on the colt, and its mother donkey followed close beside or behind.

134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this? No, almah is used six times in the Old Testament and in each case refers to a young woman of marriageable age who is still in the state of virginity.

135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable? No. Purity is virtuous, and virginity is a sign of purity. You can still be pure and not be a virgin. You can be married in a monogamous sexual relationship. That’s also pure.

136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament? The prophecy referred to both Jesus and Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (see Isaiah 8:3). The plunder and destruction happened in 732 B.C. That’s when it was fulfilled.

This doesn’t stop the power of that prophecy. Note Psalm 110, where King David talks about his coming more powerful king. He was referring to his son Solomon, but it was also a reference to Jesus.

137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament? Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Besides, he literally was “God with us.”

138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for. I don’t know of any off-hand. If you have any more, I’d be happy to discuss them.

139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin? Jesus rejected them as soon as Satan presented them. Still, it is important that Christ was tempted or tested.

Hebrews 4:15
“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet was without sin.”

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not? No. I hate apologetics. If man could come to knowledge of God through formal proof, we wouldn’t need Christianity to begin with. Why send a messenger when you already know the message?

…only 7 left!...

141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize. The best argument for the existence of God is His Word. Like I said before, apologetics are really dumb to me. Just read it.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize. One that’s been through this thread is that God doesn’t allow human logic to find him. I argue that if it could, we wouldn’t need God.

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views. That’s exactly what we think of the government. The religious right movement is really only a little old. I loath the politicizing of politics. The last time we tried this, we ran with William Jennings Bryan and lost 4 times.

144. What is your definition of the word Christian? Someone who has faith in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior.

145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian? It was customary in Greek times to sodomize boys at the age of 16. This wasn’t a crime. It certainly is now!

Anyway, Christians can still sin.

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved? Not if they turn away from Jesus. They really weren’t saved to begin with, though.

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think? You said it well enough.

Romans 3:21-28
“But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.”

Ephesians 2:8-9
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.”

James 2:17
“In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”

Luther put it like this, “Man is justified by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone.”

We are saved by faith. Saving faith produces good works. Good works do not save us.

***********

So, there you go Keruvalia. Any more?

Well posted Davistania, thank you.

Your ling list of questons makes you look like a cynic than somebody wanting answers. The written word has less power than the spoken word, but the written words last longer. If I had a small fortune and went to every bank in town with that many questons on a letter regarding banking procedures and such, few if any would respond. If you want answers go to a bible class, you do not have to believe to read the bible, it is a good piece of literature if nothing else.

So, there you go Keruvalia. Any more?

*standing ovation*

Now that was absolutely brilliant and I thank you very much for taking the time and putting forth the effort. I now have much to chew on from not only you, but from others who have given answers rather than blow me off as a cynic instead of making every effort to answer the questions of the genuinely curious. But, then, cynics always accuse those who make effort to understand something of being cynics.

I'm going to devote a couple of days to re-read very carefully through all of the answers given (and future answers if anyone else gives it a go) from the various viewpoints and see what comes out of it all.

This has been fun! I hope the thread keeps going for a while.

OK, um why dont you stop asking why I hate agnostics when it seems you are just trying to ostracize Christians.

OK, um why dont you stop asking why I hate agnostics when it seems you are just trying to ostracize Christians.


Huh?

OK, um why dont you stop asking why I hate agnostics when it seems you are just trying to ostracize Christians.

I don't think you even posted in this thread before. What're you talking about?

and i can't believe they are STILL trying to claim that i hate the thought of living in a world where logic is sin. I DON'T BELIEVE IN SIN. i cannot hate sin any more than i can hate purple unicorns. i am not capable of hating things that do not exist.
First, I never said that using logic was sinful. Using it to create Christianity is fruitless and sinful, but logic as an abstract isn't sinful. I'm not ignoring my brain. I'm not ignorant. I've thought an awful lot about this. Other people have thought an awful lot about this. If I'm not articulating this, it's my problem.

You don't believe in sin? You think we're all perfect?
One has nothing to do with the other. Try again.

Then what did you mean by saying you thought rape and murder were wrong? Rape and murder aren't sins? I'm truly curious here, because you deny sin while condemning rape and murder on moral grounds.
Yep. To sin is to disobey a god. There is no god. Ergo, no sin. That has nothing to do with morality at all. Try again.

We all have a conscience, so I expect no argument here. Sin provides a framework for those moral grounds,
No it doesn't.

Then you contradict yourself when you say that logic isn't broken. Clearly, it is.
So when I postulate that logic cannot produce Christianity, it breaks logic? I don't think so. I don't see where I'm contradicting. Please be more specific.
Well, unless you're going to out-and-out admit that xerism is illogical (in which case I have nothing further to add, since the illogical is pure nonsense by definition), it must be the case.


You could always be honest and admit that xerism is horribly illogical and has no rational basis.
Isn't that what I did say? Chistianity is not based on the logical systems of man, but on the will of God.
There is only logic. It's not "logical systems of man", as if there is some higher level of thought. Logic is the science of non-contradictory identification and correct reasoning.

btw, you're presupposing god. That's bad. That's called petittio principii.


But you are. If you admit that xerism is illogical yet you believe it, you're tossing logic out!
My point was I don't accept Christianity on logic.
Then you've got no rational basis to believe it. In which case no one should believe it.

Is that really what you want to connote?

I'm big enough to apologize. Just a bit of misplaced frustration at not being able to articulate my point.

So let's back up just one step and let me have another go at this. Let's assume that logic can produce Christianity. That you or I could just think it up. Here's what we would think up: a system that explicitly says that humanity needs help. That it can't rely on itself for salvation. That humanity is inherently sinful. If we *could* think up Christianity in the first place, we wouldn't need Christianity to begin with. Is that understandable?
Something like "it's so stupid it has to be invented by stupid people"?

remember, i'm a Jesuit educated Jew. NOT a Christian. I've studied Catholicism to some degree, and quite a bit on the Eastern Orthodox church. I'm a history major, not a theologian. These are my answers, as best I can give them.

I'm also an agnostic. Recognize that many of these are academic answers, rather than deeply held, emotional, personal opinions. Feel free to critique them.


Part One

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

1A: It's the founding principle of Christianity, and what separates it from other faiths. First, one needs to accept that Jesus is a part of God, not just a "son."

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

2A: No, not exactly. To use a non-biblical source, read Dante's Divine Comedy. As a christian thinker, he realized that it wasn't right to send all pre-Jesus people to Hell... here's where concepts like "limbo" and "purgatory" come into play. Most christians believe that when Jesus died, he descended into Hell and essentially "rescued" the virtuous Pagans, as well as most Old-Testament figures, such as Abraham and his progeny.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

3A: The Inquisition, as well as the Crusades, and Byzantine persecutions of the Pauliscians and Manicheans, were not essentially religious events. They cannot be viewed solely in the context of faith. First, they were political in nature. It is essential to remember that church and state were typically one effective unit. Unlike today, the average person truly believed that wrong belief would lead directly to Hell. Combined with political motivations (control of lands meant control of not only taxation, but Church tithes), there was a true zeal for converting, or short of that, killing, those who held the wrong beliefs. Toleration is a modern concept. From a modern viewpoint, we find events like the Inquisition abhorrent... but until the last century, that simply would not have been the case.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

4A: See answer for 3. Wrong belief was a serious concern- those who held the wrong beliefs about God would go straight to Hell. This lead to wars against people with essentially the same beliefs- see the Byzantine split over the Council of Chalcedon. Nasty stuff. Heathens were worse- because they not only were going to Hell- they were a potential splinter group within the Empire or nation. Think Fifth Column.. if they joined with other minorities, the political rule of the main sect would be threatened.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

5A: See 4a again. This was a combination of concern about the danger of wrong belief- those who adopted the wrong ideas went to Hell- and the political danger inherent in a group who usually wanted their own clergy, and frequently desired political control as well.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

6A: God is an evolutionary figure.. he changes throughout the text. The New Testament attempts to eliminate the more wrathful elements, but they are clearly present in the OT. God has a temper- and a vision. When humans attempt to circumvent the plan, bad shit happens. Think instead of "God is all-good, so he can't do anything that hurts anyone" to more of "God is all good- and that can mean tough love for humanity as a whole. Save the greater part."

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

7A: His culture was racist.. racism is a new moral dilemma. Until the last century, noone though it was a problem. Science was founded on bad ideas. Jesus needed to relate to his audience, and his audience would not have gone for ideas like "everyone is equal on Earth, as well as in the eyes of God. Stop beating the black guy."

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

8A: Again, sexism is a modern phenomenon. It was not considered a problem... middle-eastern culture has long-standing traditions of gender differentiation. It's not "clearly wrong" especially in Biblical context.

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

9A: Getting the pattern here? You can't superimpose modern morality on its biblical roots. Slavery was another well-established custom, and was practiced commonly in many parts of the world as recently as 150 years ago.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

10A: Honor thy father and mother- that's the root of the idea. Although it's worth noting that while disobedient children were stoned to death, the standard of disobedience became literally impossible to achieve within a generation of the punishment's imposition. Hope that helps..

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

11A: The problem is with people, not with God. He gave us free will, which we are free to abuse. When we forget him, we "deserve" Hell. Everyone has the opportunity to repent and be saved, but not everyone will take that opportunity. What's the point of Heaven if you can do anything you want and then go there? (For political origins, try "Geneology of Morals" by Nietzsche, his theories are at least worth looking at. Specifically, the defection of the priestly class)

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

12A: All Christians believe in Hell. Jews don't. That's first to establish. What deserves Hell, from a Christian viewpoint: having the opportunity of accepting salvation and refusing that opportunity. Humans have plenty of chances to repent and go for Jesus.. and when they dont take those opportunities, it's their own damn fault. Burn!

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

13A: It's not necessarity a contradiction. Would you say God should be just and vindictive? Better to punish the deserving, with a smattering of mercy so people don't just get pissed at him. It's educational, first. Secondly, the mercy aspect is also implied in human laws attributed to God, such as the famous "eye for an eye." It's not about getting even- it's actually about limits on punishment. It's not "head for an eye." Think of the opening scene of "The Godfather," where Don Corleone doesn't want to kill 2 boys for rape- it's not justified. The undertaker's daughter is still alive. It's like that... just but to some degree merciful.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

14A: Modern science. Simple as that.. demons are a rationalization of the inexplicable. In the old testament, there also weren't issues of "healing," so mental illness wasn't addressed.
Know too that Jesus's story was not only not unique, but not even close. Virgin births were a common theme for savior-stories. As were miracles and miraculous healings. All were needed for people to accept Jesus as a holy man. What's interesting is figuring out why his story is the only one people pay attention to now.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

15A: Soul is more of an essence. It's channeled, for lack of a better word, through the body. Drugs get to the interface, rather than the underlying soul.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

16A: By the same argument, eternal bliss should get boring. Try reading Robert A Heinlein's "Job: A Comedy of Justice" for a slightly irreverent look at the issue you bring up.

17. What is Heaven like?

17A: Blissful. Combo of eternal peace and eternal happiness. So happy you shouldn't be able to be bored. Being near God is supposed to be so awe inspiring that it never wears off, and that proximity alone brings you happiness.

18. What is Hell like?

18A: Two views. Simple: sulphur, fire, brimstone, burning flesh. The basic fundamentalist view. Not really found anywhere in the Bible. Nor is the other view, popularized by Dante- separate punishments for different sins. Frozen lake in the middle, eternally cooled by Satan's wings.

19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

19A: Basically a Catholic view, it's the reason why people need faith and confession. Without Original Sin, one could get into Heaven by good works alone. With it, just righteous action isn't enough. Hence, Jews etc are barred.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

20A: Baptism is actually an ancient Jewish custom. It's a symbolic washing away of sins- and part of the Christian belief structure about the soul and sin. It's washing your sins off your soul.. not just water on your skin. It's a mark of a new beginning in life.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

21A: It's an obedience test. Follow what I tell you, or else. Of course, God knew what they were going to do- that's the upside to omniscience.
It's also not the only creation story- reread Genesis chapter 1 to find that there are actually TWO creation stories, only one of which mentions trees. It's the removal of human innocence, and it has to be part of the story in order to explain where we are today. Somewhere along the line humans need to understand Good and Evil, and if we do it must be because God gave us that knowledge somehow. The fruit just passes the blame.

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

22A: Simple answer- bodily pleasure, as well as love, draw attention away from our love of God. When you're loving your wife, you're not thinking about God. This is essentially the root of celibate priests, as well.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

23A: What's "soon" to an eternal being? Also, quotes from Jesus are hearsay at best- the messianic story is not unique to Jesus, and like the Book of Revelation, may be entirely allegorical. Jesus wasn't transcribed. People attribute things to him all the time now, why wouldn't they then? [All praise to God that I caught the touchdown pass]

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

24A: Someone has to teach everyone else. That was their role in history...

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

25A: Because they were added later. There is significant proof of authorship changes in the entire section of the Pentecost. Jesus never claimed to be divine- his followers did. "Son of Man" and "Son of God" basically meant "male" and "human," not what we attribute to them today. Modern sensibilities strike again.

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

26A: In the fourth century, there was basically one Church. The Catholic split was not established in practice for several centuries, and not officially until the Great Schism. The Pope took supremacy after politically motivated problems, centered on the tithe. Few claimed it was divinely inspired, except to the extent that all good ideas were attributed to God. The Pope was originally just the Bishop of Rome, and important only because Rome was the old Roman capital. The Patriarch of Constantinople was foremost for a long time, then there was a period of rough equality, then the East began to diminish in political clout. As the West rose, "Catholic" ideas gained precedence over "Orthodox" ones. The Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches officially have never reconciled. They still technically believe the other's members are all damned for wrong belief.

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

27A: Because God made them that way. Some animals were put on Earth to be eaten, just as some plants were.

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

28A: Population control. We need to die, or else there would be no Heaven or Hell.

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

29A: Threats do not eliminate free will. It's not compulsion so much as forewarning. A better question would be "why does an omnipotent, omniscient God require the worship of inferior beings? shouldn't he know he's The Man, and as long as we recognize that, be cool with us?"

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

30A: "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God, the Lord is One," says the Sh'ma. The God of Israel is not the only god, just the only one they are supposed to worship. Other peoples, following other, weaker gods, are fair game. Along these lines, note that "god" is a job description, not a name.

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

31A: Hell was for betrayal- somehow Jesus needed to get up on the cross, and just because he knew Judas would go to Hell, didn't mean that Judas didn't have the free-will decision to do what he did.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

32A: Poor logic here. Judas didn't sacrifice himself for a good reason (redemption) but rather the selfish interest of silver pieces. And dying on a cross took DAYS, not hours. It was the nastiest punishment the Romans had, which is why it was reserved for common criminals.

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

33A: Humans are fallible.

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

34A: God is, but it's an issue again of free will. Humans can choose who to have sex with, just like they can choose not to at all.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

35A: It's about who you're asking. Those spellcasters weren't asking God for things, but rather calling on other gods, which is strictly forbidden.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

36A: First, Paul's letters were fairly close to Jesus's life in terms of time. Most good history isn't written until well afterwards- and that is not a value judgement of the Gospels as history. I'm just stating that word of mouth sufficed for some time, and history usually wasn't written immediately. Secondly, not everyone was literate. Finding someone who could write wasn't a very simple task, especially among the poorly educated early followers of Jesus.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

37A: There's enough reasonable evidence that Jesus lived. Books have been written about this topic. Whether he actually performed miracles, or whether miracles, healings, etc were added to lend credence to a radical new philosophy, that I cannot say. I suspect the latter. My personal intuition says the historical Jesus was more akin to Siddhartha Gautama than any other historical figure. (That's the Buddha)

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

38A: Dude, do your own scholarship. It's roughly translated as "savior" or "messiah" and was not a new concept.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

39A: Anointing with oil was a Jewish rite too. See King David.

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

40A: No clue.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

41A: There's some debate about this. It was probably and Aramaic or Hebrew name, translated first into Greek, then into Latin. From Latin, Jesu turned to Jesus.

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

42A: Because, as I've mentioned, the messianic story was not unique. Why don't we worship Asklepios? I couldn't tell you, but I suspect that the co-option of pagan ritual and myth played a large part.

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

43A: Because the spectre of wrong-belief is not dead, many Christians continue to feel the responsibility to save others. Cultists (Mormons) are especially guilty of this.

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

44A: To borrow from the Jews, conversion is a mitzvah. It's one of the best things one can do on Earth, to save another's eternal soul. Because Christians are the only ones with the right answers, it's up to them to do the converting.

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

45A: Convince the people... cooption of pagan rituals at times required the refutation of those ideas. Note too that the Christian "devil" was not a new creation, but instead usually a use of an older god. Example: Baelzebub is a derivation of the name Ba'al, the foremost Canaanite warrior and grain god. He was belittled by Christians as aprt of the conversion effort.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

46A: Second part first: to be a Christian, one must believe Christ was divine. It's one of the key tenets of belief. First part- in order to keep Jesus apart from other prophets, a myth was created about his origins. Being both divine and man is what separates Jesus from a figure like Moses.

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

47A: Buddhist thought may well be derived from Buddhism- there are certainly several reasonable links between Buddhist lands in India and the empire of Egypt, which ruled Palestine. Jesus could have been taught by Buddhists... but surely his synthesis of the teachings of Buddhism and Judaism, combined with spreading these essentially good ideas with the masses, deserves some credit?

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

48A: Resistance to evil.. I guess.

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?

49A: No. Conversion was a slow and often painful process.. Christianith did better offering it's religion as an evolution of pagan thought than as an outrigh conversion. Note how poorly they did with Jews. Convincing a non-believer that you have the "true religion" is damn hard.. as this questionair demonstrates.

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.

50A: Punishing people who hate god is fair game.. they've been offered, through free will, the opportunity to love him. The "unto the third and fourth generation" is emphatic, rather than literal.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).

51A: Look up a book for the answer to this one.. it's out of print, but perhaps you can scare up a copy. It's "The Mighty From Their Thrones," by Father J. Walsh, of Georgetown University. This covers many of your questions, but this one particularly.

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

52A: They weren't his people. As I've said before, non-believers are generally considered fair game for punishment.

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).

53A: Modern sensibilities intruding again. Prostitution is a modern problem. Secondly, Lot's daughters are another story- the bigger issue there is the treatment of guests. To let the guests under his roof be raped (as they mod demands) is actually worse than sending his daughters out, from a biblical point of view.

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?

54A: It's not just one thing. People suck- Jesus was sent to let some of them not be unredeemably sucky.

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

55A: There's a long tradition of believing wrong-belief leads to Hell. Modern sensibilities say that tolerance can exist, and God ought to be tolerant. the New Testament doesn't, and can't, deal with non-believers as anything but targets for conversion, because at the time of their compositon, they would have been letting about 5000 people into heaven.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

56A: Depends on whose view you follow. Jews say no, not really, it's about how you life your life. All Christian sects require faith for salvation.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

57A: I'm not proselytizing.. you should definitely realize that if you've gotten this far!!!

58. Where is Heaven?

58A: Literally? It doesn't fit into the observable universe. Non-literally... up. With God. God is, in general, up. Where the light comes from.

59. Where is Hell?

59A: Like 58A, the answer is not observable. In general, down, because that direction is away from God (yes, God is everywhere, but he's sort of concentrated in the up-toward-the-sky direction)

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

60A: We have souls, they don't. Argue with a philosopher about why we have free will and they don't. I"m personally a fan of the all-dogs-go-to-heaven theory.

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?

61A: God created an adversary, so that people were conflicted. Satan is literally the anti-god, opposite him in every meaningful way.

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?

62A: Keeps it, eats it, punishes it.. depends on who you believe. Satan isn't really in the Bible, so there aren't very good sources on this one.

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.

63A: Yes. We just aren't perfect. Imperfections are a problem of observation and interpretations (kind of like Heidelberg's uncertainty theorem, we can't see what he's doing without fucking it up)

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.

64A: I don't know if this is in the bible, actually.

65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.

65A: Even after being influenced by Set, Jews don't properly believe in either Satan or afterlife. Early Christians may not have believed in Satan either- it's really a traditional belief, rather than a textually based one. Note that the tree of knowledge of good and evil wasn't an apple tree, and why angels have wings... neither is in the text.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

66A: It's on Earth only, and Christians aren't supposed to care about life except to find salvation for the more-important afterlife.

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.

67A: Define "prosper." Note the NT quote about rich men, camels, and needle-threading. Wealth, or prosperity, is often at odds with living a good life, according to the Bible.

68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.

68A: Another non-textual belief. The closest you'll come is in Revelation, which is actually an allegorical text.

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

69A: The same reason as he let the Holocaust happen. No, he wasn't taking a cosmic nap. It's the "plan" idea.

70. What is sin, exactly?

70A: Things god say not to do. God said no, you did it anyway, you're wrong.

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

71A: Skip

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

72A: It's based on the condemnation (understandable condemnation) of Jesus by the Temple leaders. He was a blasphemer, unless he was right.. so their willingness to use the justice system available was not really wrong, and if you're Christian, it was necessary. Jesus needed to die so you could be saved.

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

73A: The real punishment is for not trying. Trying to do everything right and failing, combined with living up to your shortcomings, is OK.

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

74A: We aren't clones. I think this is actually more a statement about the presence of eternal souls.

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.

75A: Changing practice associated with the destruction of the Temple.

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?

76A: Skip.

77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)

77A: Either as tests (see Job) or punishments, or because these afflictions existed, and like all oteher things, are explained by the involvement of god.

78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

78A: Taking single lines of biblical text at face value is a nasty habit, one which preachers frequently engage in.

79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.

79A: Of course not. It's essentially political philosophy, retroactively condemning earlier regimes. It's the wishful catharsis for a people that can't escape the unjust tyrant.

80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.

80A: No, the order to "be fruitful and multiply" takes precedence.

81. What exactly is faith?

81A: Personal view: making like a sheep and believing what you're told to believe. Orthodox view: accepting God.

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.

82A: I'm a Jew, we don't accept huge pieces of it. The stuff we wrote, we take all of.

83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?

83A: The whole point of Job was to test a good man.

84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?

84A: Because on Earth, he's also a man. That's how men communicate with god.

85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.

85A: Skip

86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.

86A: Perhaps he could have taken more time first. However, Christianity is based not only on Jesus's philosophy, but also on faith that he was god incarnate.

87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?

87A: Testing his humanity

88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.

88A: SKip

89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").

89A: All three are apocryphal. Ask someone who was there what the words were. And the words probably aren't essential, being crucified would hurt so much you died. Last words were likely either "burble burble gasp" or "fuck this hurts."

90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?

90A: El is originally a Canaanite god. Yahweh, as the Hebrew god is usually caled, was probably the same god. El was the oldest Canaanite god.. note that the Jews, the people Yisra'el, did not have Yahweh in their name, as would have been typical linguistically. INstead, they have the name of "El." "El" also appears in Genesis. Likely the name persisted as an alias for the Jewish god, because his name was not to be spoken.

91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.

91A: The shepherd is also a caregiver first and foremost. Jesus identified humans as his flock, and tried to steer them to safety.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.

92A: Honestly, it's more likely. Religion explains what we don't understand.

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?

93A: Hell is not a physical, observable place. It could be thought of not as the absence of God, but the absence of God-love.

94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.

94A: First, it was a serpent. Second, this is an instance of correct results, rather than plain truth. God tried to get Adam and Eve to do the right thing, while the snake was leading them astray.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?

95A: Fallible humans. He was supposed to be beautiful, intelligent, second only to God, so it's not like Lucifer was a bad angel to start with.

96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer.

96A: God is probably asexual, exhibiting few if any gender traits.

97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.

97A: On the surface, yes, but if you believe it's three parts of the same thing, it begins to take on Hindu overtones. Not true polytheism, though.

98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?

98A: I've read all of it, most Christians don't know so much as accept so much on faith.

99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?

99A: Lifted text. That was an easy one.

End Part One

Part Two (cut in half for length)

100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?

100A: No, it's just one of the many things he did for folks like us.

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.

101A: If you want authoritative, learn Greek. The Eastern Orthodox church, and the Greek Orthodox church, don't use a Latin-derived translation. Or be Jewish, and use Hebrew.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.

102A: Taught the people who you live with to treat others with compassion and love, and to try to save your soul despite the fact that you don't yet believe.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.

103A: OF course rape is wrong. But virgin births were a common theme in middle eastern mythmaking. And god didn't impregnate Mary by having literal sex with her.

104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).

104A: He was human, too.

105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?

105A: It's all the same being, why does it matter?

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?

106A: Dude, how do you think up these things? Obviously it doesn't bother Christians. And Jesus would ahve been legally Joseph's son.

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?

107A: No, except that inferior creatures get pregnant?

108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?

108A: It's stolen from Egyptian myth, so no. All borrowed things cannot be analyzed in later context about gender.

109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?

109A: He probably made it up.

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason-?

110A: Yes, I think so. Christians say Jews are going to Hell because they've made mistakes analyzing people, who are basically bastards.

111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?

111A: Skip

112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?

112A: Skip

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?

113A: We're intended to rely on god.

114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?

114A: No, adoption rules would have made him effectively Joseph's son, and credited him as his descendant.

115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker
(supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.

116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.

116A: Number of the Beast, from Revelation.

117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).

117A: This sounds more like a bible study question than a real inquiry into Christianity/Judaism.

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.

118A: Most people spoken to by God don't do exactly what they're supposed to. God doesn't pick the weak-willed.. Abraham, Isaac, Moses.. none of them did what they were supposed to, by the letter, either. Jews look on Solomon as a great king, and wise (for his just decisions) rather than worrying about his sins, or the "Song of Solomon," which is pretty much a sex poem.

119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood).

119A: I don't take an anti-sex position, and that position largely comes from the celibate priesthood. Pre-marital, non-reproductive sex is generally frowned upon, as it masturbation, due to a poorly interpreted passage, Genesis 38:9. Onan was killed for refusing to do as God commanded, not because every sperm is sacred.

120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).

120A: No, not particularly. Most symbols are borrowed, it's not an exclusively Christian idea. And it was directly appropriated from the Romans, obviously. It wasn't directly stolen from the Egyptians.

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?

121A: I'd love to see where you found this statistic. How common is sexual expression in non-Christian cultures? What do the stats look like in China? Saudi Arabia? SM is a Western phenomenon..

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

122A: Supremacy of the Pope, for one thing. It's the Pope and Catholicism versus English rule. It's not just a religious problem, it's a political one.

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?

123A: I've asked myself this over and over again. Perhaps it's to instill the idea that we ought to know our place in the universe, under God.

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?

124A: The soul is tainted by the body it's in, and that body is the result of semen and egg. The sin infects the soul.

125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?

125A: Ethics doesn't mean nothing but peace and love. Peace isn't always about non-violence. Blood is also used to describe lineage, human-essence, and life-force, not just drawing blood from violence.

126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?

126A: Look what happens when Islamic peoples do that. If everyone waged war all the time, there would be about 3 people left.

127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?

127A: He didn't see wickedness in the surviving Israel. When wickedness showed up, he removed it fairly effectively, wouldn't you say?

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

128A: What passage? Where do you see "apple"? Are you referring to the expulsion from Eden?

129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?

129A: The people who tortured and killed Jesus didn't get anything out of the arrangement, besides a one-way ticket to Hell. It was the people who accepted the sacrifice of their god, and were grateful, that recieve the benefit. The torture was simply a means to an end.

130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?

130A: They're both hearsay. It's the message that counts, not the specifics.

131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?

131A: Clerical error. It's still in the mishnah.

132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?

132A: Most people probably would say in Isaiah. I don't believe there's conclusive evidence of the coming of anyone, besides perhaps the return of Elijah, in the OT.

133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?

133A: Trust Mark on the details, over anyone else. His gospel was written first. And try to figure out how someone rode 2 beasts at once. The colt was probably the pack animal or something.

134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?

134A: The original Hebrew is not the same language as Greek, the language of the Gospels. Translation errors occur.. and virgin was an accepted Greek term for young girl. You're not the first to mention this.. and recall that virgin births were a common Canaanite myth.

135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?

135A: Purity also has to do with youth, before one understand the wickedness of the world. Virgins also tend to be young.

136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?

137A: The temple was destroyed, no? Herod's kingdom was a vassal state of Rome. The Jewish kingdoms weren't really independent, an could be considered destroyed.

137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?

137A: It doesn't have to be in the Gospels or Letters for it to be true- Christians accept Jesus as God on Earth, which is pretty much "with us."

138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.

138A: for a quick list, see here (http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm)

139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?

139A: It's not contemplation of sin, but rather serious consideration of performing sin. Satan tempted Jesus not by inducing him to sin, but by trying to convince him to plan to sin, and to fulfill that plan.

140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?

140A: There are several medieval proofs. I personally like "Proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing," as the reason that proofs tend to be unsatisfying.

141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize.

141A: This is easy enough.. there are hundreds of proofs and critiques out there. Do your own homework, friend.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize.

142A: This is the same excercise as 141. How about the argument found in Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide"? :rolleyes:

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.

143A: The Roman government was oppressive, and persecuted Christians. Our government is not a theocracy, as the Roman one was. There is no state religion. Anyway, didn't Jesus say to give Caesar what is Caesar's?

144. What is your definition of the word Christian?

144A: One who believes in Jesus.

145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?

145A: They also had less documentation of crime than we do. Rape was defined differently then, and you didn't have civil courts either. Man-boy love was legal then, too. Care to bring that back as well? If most sex acts are decriminalized, you can't have sex crimes, can you?

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?

146A: Nope.

147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?

147A: I would think that good works would be the most important aspect, especially as it is the primary requirement of a good Jewish life, which predates Christianity.

End Part Two.

:cool:

There is only logic. It's not "logical systems of man", as if there is some higher level of thought. Logic is the science of non-contradictory identification and correct reasoning.


Saying there is no higher level of thought is a universal negative. Care to prove that?

That's a joke.

But seriously Mr. Spock. This is where we make like Bill O'Reilly and agree to disagree. "There is only logic." Hand this man a degree in epistemiology and a book on Gödel.

I'll try this again. Again, my apologies for not making myself more clear. This is so far my fault. You can't create Christianity by using logic. This doesn't break logic. This doesn't break Christianity. I accept Christianity on faith, just as you accept your own axioms on faith. I don't see the difference, and perhaps this is where we should direct the discussion. What's the difference between your axioms and my own?

There is only logic. It's not "logical systems of man", as if there is some higher level of thought. Logic is the science of non-contradictory identification and correct reasoning.
Saying there is no higher level of thought is a universal negative. Care to prove that?

That's a joke.

But seriously Mr. Spock. This is where we make like Bill O'Reilly and agree to disagree. "There is only logic." Hand this man a degree in epistemiology and a book on Gödel.
Show that there is something else. Now.

I'll try this again. Again, my apologies for not making myself more clear. This is so far my fault. You can't create Christianity by using logic.
Then it is illogical, and hence no one should believe it.

This doesn't break logic. This doesn't break Christianity. I accept Christianity on faith, just as you accept your own axioms on faith.
No, I don't. You accept yours on faith. I accept my axioms because they are axioms. There are no alternatives. I must accept identity, excluded middle and non-contradiction because they are necessarily so. I must accept the validity of my senses because to not do so leads to dlkh zga dgasd;kgjh a s asrh;as safm sdf. I must accept an external reality because there is such a thing as communication.

Care to try again?

I don't see the difference, and perhaps this is where we should direct the discussion. What's the difference between your axioms and my own?
Yours...aren't.

Show that there is something else. Now.
Love. Art. Music. Philosophy. There's many more. Come on, you can't argue that logic as a formal system is perfect.

This doesn't break logic. This doesn't break Christianity. I accept Christianity on faith, just as you accept your own axioms on faith.

No, I don't. You accept yours on faith. I accept my axioms because they are axioms. There are no alternatives. I must accept identity, excluded middle and non-contradiction because they are necessarily so. I must accept the validity of my senses because to not do so leads to dlkh zga dgasd;kgjh a s asrh;as safm sdf. I must accept an external reality because there is such a thing as communication.

You accept your axioms because they are axioms. Super. I accept my axioms because they are axioms. Can you at least understand my frustration at this double standard?

No, I don't. You accept yours on faith. I accept my axioms because they are axioms. There are no alternatives. I must accept identity, excluded middle and non-contradiction because they are necessarily so. I must accept the validity of my senses because to not do so leads to dlkh zga dgasd;kgjh a s asrh;as safm sdf. I must accept an external reality because there is such a thing as communication.

But doesn't this also show a fundamental assumption rather than an axiomatic building block of truth? You accept identity because you can not comprehend anything else. Likewise, you except external reality not because it's funamentally "real" but because you've assumed that your senses are not only paramount, but infalliable and all percieving. You define your existance not so much because it's "right" but because, in your value system, it's the best possible explanation.

Show that there is something else. Now.
Love. Art. Music. Philosophy. There's many more.
Prove it.

Come on, you can't argue that logic as a formal system is perfect.
Sure I can.

This doesn't break logic. This doesn't break Christianity. I accept Christianity on faith, just as you accept your own axioms on faith.
No, I don't. You accept yours on faith. I accept my axioms because they are axioms. There are no alternatives. I must accept identity, excluded middle and non-contradiction because they are necessarily so. I must accept the validity of my senses because to not do so leads to dlkh zga dgasd;kgjh a s asrh;as safm sdf. I must accept an external reality because there is such a thing as communication.
You accept your axioms because they are axioms. Super. I accept my axioms because they are axioms.
No, they aren't axioms. You CLAIM them to be, but they are not. They are not primaries.

Mine are.

No, I don't. You accept yours on faith. I accept my axioms because they are axioms. There are no alternatives. I must accept identity, excluded middle and non-contradiction because they are necessarily so. I must accept the validity of my senses because to not do so leads to dlkh zga dgasd;kgjh a s asrh;as safm sdf. I must accept an external reality because there is such a thing as communication.
But doesn't this also show a fundamental assumption rather than an axiomatic building block of truth?
No.

You accept identity because you can not comprehend anything else.
No. I accept it because there is no alternative that makes sense. If identity is not correct, then 1 can equal 2. But 1 cannot equal 2.

Likewise, you except external reality not because it's funamentally "real" but because you've assumed that your senses are not only paramount, but infalliable and all percieving.
No. I accept it because I have no choice.

You define your existance not so much because it's "right" but because, in your value system, it's the best possible explanation.
No. It's the only one.

No. I accept it because there is no alternative that makes sense. If identity is not correct, then 1 can equal 2. But 1 cannot equal 2.

Again, though, that's an assumption. Admittedly, it's a pretty good one, but your entire logic structure is based on that original assumption that one can not equal two.


No. I accept it because I have no choice.

Of course you do. However, to function in the world that you deem to be the best possible, you lock yourself into not having a choice. This doesn't remove the capcity for choice, just your willingness to accept it. How do you reconcile the plurality of viewpoints present and functioning within the world?


No. It's the only one.

Obviously, though, it's not.

Love. Art. Music. Philosophy. There's many more.Prove it.
I need to prove that love, art, music, and philosophy aren't based on logic?

What shall I use to prove this, exactly?

Come on, you can't argue that logic as a formal system is perfect.Sure I can.No, you really can't. What about Gödel?

Love. Art. Music. Philosophy. There's many more.
Prove it.
I need to prove that love, art, music, and philosophy aren't based on logic?
Or that there is something as an alternate to logic.

What shall I use to prove this, exactly?
Well....you could use logical statement, but that would render you guilty of a stolen concept fallacy. And if you don't use logical statements, then you have nonsense.

In short, you'd be fucked.

Come on, you can't argue that logic as a formal system is perfect.
Sure I can.
No, you really can't. What about Gödel?
Doesn't apply.

Come on, you can't argue that logic as a formal system is perfect.Sure I can.No, you really can't. What about Gödel?Doesn't apply.
No? Why not?

baawa.. i think you're threadjacking here.

No? Why not?
Because Godel is about math. Math REQUIRES logic.

Get it?

No. I accept it because there is no alternative that makes sense. If identity is not correct, then 1 can equal 2. But 1 cannot equal 2.
Again, though, that's an assumption. Admittedly, it's a pretty good one, but your entire logic structure is based on that original assumption that one can not equal two.
No, it's not. It's based on observation.

And even if it is an "assumption", so what? You act as if an axiom is thus somehow bad.


No. I accept it because I have no choice.
Of course you do.
No, I do not. Rationality requires it.

However, to function in the world that you deem to be the best possible, you lock yourself into not having a choice. This doesn't remove the capcity for choice, just your willingness to accept it. How do you reconcile the plurality of viewpoints present and functioning within the world?
They are wrong.


No. It's the only one.
Obviously, though, it's not.
Yeah, it is.

Because Godel is about math. Math REQUIRES logic.

Get it?Yes I do get it. That's exactly the point I was making.

Yes I do get it. That's exactly the point I was making.
Then you agree with me. Good.

wow, 147 questions. i will tell you that it took my theology teacher about a year to answer all of these questions. dont think that just because you dont get a response the answers dont exist.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I read quite a few and the Judas thing, off the top of my head. If Judas had asked forgiveness, Jesus would have done it. He was tortured and went out and killed himself. Off the top of my head I answered most of the first 40 before I got bored and wrote this down. The answers are their, you're just being to cynical to realize it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I read quite a few and the Judas thing, off the top of my head. If Judas had asked forgiveness, Jesus would have done it. He was tortured and went out and killed himself. Off the top of my head I answered most of the first 40 before I got bored and wrote this down. The answers are their, you're just being to cynical to realize it.

Cynical? No, I'm going to back Keruvalia up on this one. S/he asked questions hoping for answers and I and others have done our best to supply them.

Keruvalia has shown nothing but the best of intentions here. Look at the posts. Notice how Keruvalia thanks people for the answers sincerely.

I find it funny how people will post, "The answers are there for you to find" after a few people have already supplied their answers, and you really asked nicely.

baawa.. i think you're threadjacking here.

The number of these girls killed were very substatial. Their special assignment was mine clearance at the front lines.


http://www.irna.ir/occasion/basij78/

How about the Creator God's position on the Iranian clergy which counducted the War beginning in 1982 rejected professional military doctrine. This was because they felt God endorsed their struggle and because they had not professional military training. The lack of modern weapons was another factor here. One of the major tactics they adopted was "human-wave" attacks. Pasdaran forces and Basij volunteers as young as 9 years old were used to sweep pver over minefields and entrenched positions developed by the more professional Iraqi military. The Iranians lacked the equipment to breach Iraqi minefields and having realtively few few tanks did not want to put them at rusk. The Iranian clergy this relied heavily on human-wave tatics, often involving children who were apparently considered expendable. One East European journalist reports seeing "tens of thousands of children, roped together in groups of about 20 to prevent the faint-hearted from deserting, make such an attack." A HBC reader writes, "Not only Iranian boys were sent against the Iraqi possitions, but also a large number of girls. The Mullahs who stayed safely in the mosques told the children that they would go to paradise. For the Mullahs girls were of little consequence." A reader reports, "I remember television and newspaperreports at the time. Before going to her sacrifice, the Mullahs gave the children a paradise key as a symbol of martyrdom . The number of these girls killed were very substatial. Their special assignment was mine clearance at the front lines. The boys were more commonly used in human wave assaults on Iraqi positions."
http://histclo.hispeed.com/essay/war/iraq/war-iiw.html

No, it's not. It's based on observation.

And even if it is an "assumption", so what? You act as if an axiom is thus somehow bad.


Great, but observations can be flawed. That means there's an inherant uncertainty in them. In many cases, it may be vanishingly small, but it's still there.

And I don't believe that axioms are bad. I have several principles which I consider axiomatic to my life based on my own observations (violence is wrong, for example). However, since there is always the possibility that my observations are flawed, I am forced to admit that they are not true "axioms", but assumed axiomatic beginnings. There are not "absolutely" true, because I have no way to show that they are. They are, however, axiomatic for me and I base the rest of my judgements upon them. I simply suggest that you do the same thing, admittedly or not, but refuse to acknowledge the fact that your observations may be incomplete, incorrect or honestly misled.


No, I do not. Rationality requires it.

Your particular definition of rationality may require it, but I contend that definition is fundamentally flawed because it makes no allowance for simple human sensory error.


They are wrong.

And you're right by fiat? Many of these other viewpoints are just as successful, just as well-adjusted and just as educated and intelligent as you, so what specific reasoning makes you right and them wrong?


Yeah, it is.

Say it all you want. Doesn't make it true.

No, it's not. It's based on observation.

And even if it is an "assumption", so what? You act as if an axiom is thus somehow bad.
Great, but observations can be flawed. That means there's an inherant uncertainty in them. In many cases, it may be vanishingly small, but it's still there.
So what? That's why we have epistemology.

And I don't believe that axioms are bad. I have several principles which I consider axiomatic to my life based on my own observations (violence is wrong, for example). However, since there is always the possibility that my observations are flawed, I am forced to admit that they are not true "axioms", but assumed axiomatic beginnings.
Ah. So you're just being wishy-washy.


No, I do not. Rationality requires it.
Your particular definition of rationality may require it,
There is only one definition.

but I contend that definition is fundamentally flawed because it makes no allowance for simple human sensory error.
Of course it does. But because we can interpret things incorrectly does not mean we always do so.


They are wrong.
And you're right by fiat?
No. They have no backing.

Many of these other viewpoints are just as successful,
And what do you mean by that?

just as well-adjusted and just as educated and intelligent as you, so what specific reasoning makes you right and them wrong?
They have no backing.


Yeah, it is.
Say it all you want. Doesn't make it true.
Deny it all you want; doesn't make it false.

Keruvalia--please check the e-mail you use on this board for a message I sent you pertaining to these questions.

The 1st one is that God requires a sacrifice of something pure and innocent(up to Jesus this was a lamb or a goat or something like that) Jesus was born without the seed of man, therefore he was sinless. When he was killed his blood was the sacrifice that blotted out our sins for all time

but he had a woman's genetic material.

does that mean that women are sinless as well?

I have gone through and answered every question, with help from a friend. I'm editing it now, but it'll take a while since it's like, 40 pages long or so. I should get it posted by tomorrow. Be looking.

Keruvalia--please check the e-mail you use on this board for a message I sent you pertaining to these questions.

Hey ... I'm gonna tell you right now ... openly and honestly ... if you can answer 1 or 147 of these question, you may freely email me ... fishpaw@unlc.biz

ok? ok! :)

-more than 80 gospels were considered for entry into the bible
-the original bible was compiled by emperor Constantine the Great
-Christianity is made of a mess of religions
-the Virgin Mary and baby Jesus/Isis and her son Horus; Egyptian sun disks/angelic halos; Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh; december 25 is the birthday of Osiris, Adonis, Dionysus; look up Mithras, born 25 dec, buried in a rock tomb, resurrected after 3 days; Christians worship on SUNday, the pagan sun god's day of worship
-when Constantine compiled the bible, certain gospels were edited or left out entirely.

Hey ... I'm gonna tell you right now ... openly and honestly ... if you can answer 1 or 147 of these question, you may freely email me ... fishpaw@unlc.biz

ok? ok! :)

Uh-oh...is that not the address my e-mail went to? I used the e-mail function on the board, and it went to whatever addy you put in your profile.

::grumbles something about how stupid it was not to SAVE her answers::

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).



http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=John+8%3A42-49



John 8


The Children of the Devil

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

The Claims of Jesus About Himself

48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me.

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 6 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"


Christians are NOT afraid of questions, and if you SERIOUSLY want the answers and are not just trying to create a forum for insulting people, and if you are willing to honestly READ the answers (and no, I do not want you to become a Christian just because I answer the questions, I want you to do it because you BELIEVE what I tell you) then I will take the time to sit down and give you an answer to each and every one of these.

Just let me know.

I will work on answering these questions. Please just give me time to answer 140+ questions that will involve quite a bit of work. But I am willing to answer them. I have nothing to fear. I also have to piece together the verses from the Bible and include the context. I may just offer a download of a text file and post the link here. However it works... I'll post again 24-36 hours from now, depending on when I can get back online.

to anyone planning on answering:

go ahead and skim this thread first. i, for example, answered about 140 of the questions. most of my answers were a few sentences at most. several people have pretty good answers for at least a few of the questions, which could save you some time if you happen to agree.

this took about 3 hours to do.

it's not a small undertaking, but even reading the 147 and giving them a little thought might be interesting to you.

and about half of them have a distinctly judeo-christian bent to them, so fear not if you're not a fan of the NT!

to anyone planning on answering:

go ahead and skim this thread first. i, for example, answered about 140 of the questions. most of my answers were a few sentences at most. several people have pretty good answers for at least a few of the questions, which could save you some time if you happen to agree.

this took about 3 hours to do.

it's not a small undertaking, but even reading the 147 and giving them a little thought might be interesting to you.

and about half of them have a distinctly judeo-christian bent to them, so fear not if you're not a fan of the NT!
I've answered all of them, and cross-referenced with a friend of mine. We got everything down, 'bout 35 pages worth. But yeah, it'll be up by today or tomorrow, depending on your time zone...within 24 hours, I hope...don't quote me on that...

It took a while, but here it is. My answers are pretty short, I was trying to save time. My friend took some his valuable time to read and respond, so a shout-out for him. His goes into the details more. Oh, and he’s a hell of a lot smarter than me :P

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.
Romans 6:23. I reference to this a lot, mostly about the first half. The meaning of this passage is twofold. One, it means that Jesus is a covenant between our God and us...God has been one of us, has lived among us in the person of Jesus. Where once humanity was seperated from God (Book of Genesis), we have now again been connected to him. Two, it explains Jesus' purpose. In order that humanity no longer be bound and chained by sin, Jesus took upon himself the sum weight of all sin and died with that burden, so that it might also die with him and no longer enslave us.
2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.
Lot's of verses...First one that comes up is Genesis 37:35
The word "grave" is "Sheol" in hebrew, which seems to be the closest thing to purgatory. I’m not 100% about Sheol, see the questions about where hell is and what hell is like.
Also, remember in the Gospels, when Jesus goes to pray, he is visited by Moses and Elijah...obviously some people from the Old Testament went to Heaven, eh?
So, how to tackle this one? There is a covenant that accompanies the Old Testament, and a new Covenant that is in Jesus. In the old, salvation was achieved through ritual purity and cleanliness, following the laws God set that are outlined in Leviticus and other books. However, with the coming of Jesus, God is in a sense refuting these laws and saying that no longer are people bound to complex rituals to be washed clean of sin. In Jesus, we are already washed clean, without the need for dietary laws and ritual purity.
As far as I or anyone I know is concerned, there's really only two options...Heaven or NOT Heaven.
3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.
I don't justify it. It was wrong. People screw up. Romans 3:23. Again, I reference to this a lot. I'd almost group your answers to all these "jusfity" questions together, just quote all the questions together and answer them all. There is no justification for it, these actions were wrong. Christians sinned and abandoned the teaching of Christ - did UN-Christian deeds - and then attempted to justify it in the name of Christ. That is is still seen as a terrible thing merely proves that one cannot use the message of Christ to justify what are inherently evil actions.
It means that some of Christ's followers are sinners and don't listen to his message. It doesn't invalidate the message of Christ.
4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.See above. People screw up. Muslims do it to. Atheists do it do.
5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.See above.
6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).Ok, Deut. 18:8 and Luke 22:36 have nothing to do with this.
All of those demonstrate God's power. He can do anything. Notice in the last verse he tells them to turn away from evil, or be punished. He is no more evil than a parent who spanks their kid for doing something they've been told not to. Indeed, I'd think he's a better God for it, actually enforcing his rules instead of just saying, "Yeah, whatever, do whatever you want." See also #1. There are consequences for your actions, God is demostrating them.
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).The Israelites are God's children. He's asking why she would take God away from his chosen people. God's not racist, just particular.
Deut 7:6
2 Chronicles 6:6
More importantly, Jesus is testing the faith of the woman. It would probably be good to find some verses in which Jesus praises the Samaritans.
He tests her faith here, and knows by her intelligent, quick, and highly reasoned answer that she does indeed have faith in him. Remember, this woman was probably pagan. Jesus is saying to her "why do you ask this of me, when you believe in and worship that which is not my father?". But if he had asked this directly, as such, then it would have been easy for the woman to feign faith with a "but I've changed my mind". Jesus instead puts the question to her in a way that, by her answer, her sincerity can be instantly revealed (or refuted).
8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.What I said was wrong and bad and I got yelled at by Mr. Aiera for it, so…yeah…
When we talk of what Paul has written, we must first remember that Paul sought to be a teacher. He never seeks to establish doctrine, and so we cannot typically say that Paul is telling us "they way things ought to be". In 1 Cor 11, Paul is using the established practice of Corinthian society (that men are the head of their wives) as an example of the relationship between Christ and the Church. He is saying to them "As you say man is the head of the wife (NOTE: he never says that this is the right or wrong way to view relations between the genders), so I say that Christ is the head of the Church." That's it. He's making an example.
With Timothy, Paul is drawing again on the husband/wife metaphor to explain the relationship of Christ and the Church. He is saying that the woman (Church) should not festoon itself with expensive baubles, gold and glitter, but should instead strive for humility in the Lord. He is saying that never should the woman (Church) have dominance over the man (Christ)...Christ must always come first in the Church. The Church cannot place itself before Christ. Lastly, he is saying that the woman (Church) should learn with submission - we should be attentive to Christ's word, hanging off every breath the Lord takes, and be in reverence and awe. Because Christ is awesome. What is vital to remember here is that in the time this letter was written, persecution of Christians was still wide-spread, and so it was often necessary to speak in a sort of "code" in order to communicate the message. Of course, as with any coded phrase, if you don't rea! lize the need for (or use of) the code, the message of course gets garbled.
9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.This seems to be a popular one. God isn't saying that you should have slaves, just that if you are a slave, be humble, like Jesus was.
Ephesians 6:9
Colossians 4:1
Also, there are verses telling of how Christ came to help the downtrodden, set people free, etc.
these verses, in particular, motivated Abe Lincoln to pass certain laws, some of which started the American Civil War, to free slaves. In fact, many of the first movements to free slaves were driven by Christian principle...Battle Hymn of the Republic, anyone?
10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.None of those verses say that the parent is being evil. They show that the kid is the evil one. This goes with #8.
Pretty much. These are poorly chosen examples, and clearly speak of a child which is rebellious and possibly violent towards his parents. It is less about children submitting to their parents every whim, and more about children not spiting their parents with violent, drunken debauchery. I might also point out that in Hebrews, it talks of discipline. This can have several meanings (root word: disciple). We had parents as teachers, yes, and also to correct us (hopefully!) when we went astray...as Jesus did with his disciples many times.
11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?#1. Also, God is so perfect that we would die in his presence, but for Jesus' blood wiping away our sin. It's not God's fault. It's just like that. There are plenty of examples of people being blinded by his glory, priests that ventured into the Holy of Holies had to have a rope around their ankle in case they died.
More to it than that. Many are called, but few are chosen. Accompany this with another parable, the wedding banquet...you'll need to find the verses.
The kingdom of Heaven is by invitation only. BUT...everyone is invited. Not everyone will accept the invitation, and so not everyone will be there to enter the kingdom of Heaven. More to it, even all those who accept the invitation (profess faith in the salvation Jesus brings) will not be saved, because there are many who put on Christ as a justification for evil deeds. Referencing back to questions about the Inquisition and persecutions, it is clear that there have been people who have claimed to act for Christ and have instead done evil. So what is being said by Christ? Everyone is invited, called to salvation. Not everyone will accept the invitation, and not all of those who profess to accept the invitation will do it for good ends. That is why the road is narrow, and that is why not all will be saved.
That's right...people are sinners. This should not come as a surprise to any of us...we all do wrong, for selfish reasons. Anyone who claims not to is deluding themself. [Aiera]
Also, about what he said: that doesn’t mean that God has already decided whether you’re chosen or not. He calls you, and you decide whether you wish to be chosen or not.
12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.#1. Sin has consequences. Keep in mind.
[AIERA]We are all sinful - this is beyond dispute. We all do things that hurt or degrade other people, often intentionally. If you can claim that you do not, you are either a newborn infant or deluding yourself. In Christ, we are washed free from sin, but as with any bath...we have to choose to get in the water. In taking sinful actions, we are setting ourselves with the Devil, choosing him as our ally. In doing so, we choose our own fate.
The wedding banquet metaphor is a relevant here as well. We are all given the invitation to be freed from our sin, but in order that we be freed from our sin (and thus our alliance with the Devil) we need to actually accept said invitation. It's not enough to merely claim to reject the Devil. We can reject the dirt that clings to our skin, but unless we also get in the bathtub, it's not coming off of us anytime soon.
13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.See #1. The other stuff I said wasn’t so good, which again is why I talked to Mr. Aiera before posting. Smart guy, he is.
There are two kinds of justice, the human and the divine. I think we can all agree that in many cases, our worldly justice is not just at all.
"Not JUST at all". It's that easy to illustrate. When we say "in a perfect world, such and such...", this is the divine justice to which we refer. Not the justice that is punishment, but the justice that is fairness, equality, and...yes, mercy.
14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.Actually, I have my own (not at all Biblical) explaination. Again, this is nowhere in the Bible, just a thought of my own. My idea is that epilepsy and schizophrenia are indeed demons, but because of modern medicine, we seem them as just the diseases. Mark 5:15 Many people had more than one demon. I think that we can actually see some demons in their true form, as viruses and such. Again this is not mentioned in the Bible, it's just my own personal thoughts.
Posession by demons is prevalent only in the New Testament because the New Testament chronicles Jesus' life and ministry as a healer. We can assume that posession also happens in the Old Testament, but since the Old Testament is such a sweeping historical epic, there is little room for such close personal details in it as there are in the New Testament. Remember, the Old Testaments happens over centuries. The Gospels have a 33 year (roughly) time-frame.
That said...I think posession occasionally happens, and even today we are occasionally reminded of it. Certainly, the Exorcist succeeded as a movie in part because there is some credence to it. There is an area of theological study called Demonology, and I've heard several sermons from a priest who held a Masters in Divinity (area: Demonology) on the subject. There are certainly a number of diseases/disorders, but I think that every so often there are also things that defy such easy explanation.
As well...what if in the Bible, many of those cured by Jesus are in fact epileptic/schizophrenic? I only recall one dialogue between Jesus and posessive demons, and yet I recall many times Jesus has "cast out demons" in the Gospels. Could it not be that in these other cases, he was curing diseases that the unscientific culture of the day had interpreted as posession?
15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.Because they affect your soul. Your soul is your self. 1 Corinthians 6:19: When you screw with your body, especially your mind, you're screwing with your soul.
16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.Hmm...Not entirely sure how to word this. I know this sounds horrible, and I'm sorry, I wish I could make it sound better, but, it's their fault, you (hopefully) did everything you could do. I think that it's more of a deep happiness. Your self is happy. You wish you could have done something, but what's happened is happened. You're not sad, but...I don't know how to describe it.
The first thing to do here is to separate the human from the divine. It is human to think that we would pine and mourn for those lost to us. Certainly we do it when someone dies, especially in a tragic or horrific manner. But then too...my girlfriend, for example, has lost 5 friends in 2 separate car accidents...and while she misses them (and on April 4th, lights 5 candles for them), she is not consumed by grief for them. She's a happy person in spite of the loss.
We all lose loved ones, but we can usually move on about or lives and regain our happiness.
As I said, though, separate the human from the divine. It is human to think in terms of tragedy and loss. In the divine, it is not unheard of to weep for loss either...certainly, God weeps for all souls that do not choose salvation. So certainly, in Heaven, there is a sense of mourning. But there is also a sense of joy, a joy so eternal and overpowering. In Heaven, no worldly concern follows us...we are in Paradise with the Lord.
Moments of mourning in this world last for a time, and then pass, and we move on with life and regain our happiness...and we do so in spite of this often harsh world. How much more brief in heaven will our mourning be in a place of jubliation and perfect joy?
17. What is Heaven like?Deuteronomy 28:12
Revelation 4, kind of.
Revelation 19, kind of.
And Revelation 21-22.
Heaven is Paradise. To each of us, that may have different meanings...thus, in addition to Scripture, I also think that much of Heaven is what we make it to be in our joy.
18. What is Hell like?
Luke 16:24
There are a lot of verses, mostly in Revelation, that talk about "wailing and gnashing of teeth". See also "Lake of Fire"
There's also the eternal torment of knowing you had the chance to be in perfection, to be with God, but you are forever separated from Him.
I've read a few...I guess they would be testimonies...from people who've had near-death experiences. Some talk of warmth, light, slendor...Heaven. Some talk of something different...and it isn't fire, and it isn't brimstone. One that moved me, in particular, was a person who spoke of how they felt they were floating alone in blackness, in a void. And they were truly alone...no sound, nothing to see, no sensation of touch, no feeling of being cold and yet a complete lack of warmth all the same. True nothingness...only the comtemplation of being cut off and alone from everything, trapped in perfect emptiness.
I wonder if perhaps that is not what Hell is like...the tales of fire and wailing being metaphors for the still greater suffereing of being totally alone in a place devoid of everything.
If you think about it in terms of boolean logic, it makes sense. In terms of binary opposites, what opposes Heaven (which is, essentially, everything)? Nothingness. What opposes joy and the eternal sense of belonging and togetherness that is in Heaven? Sorrow, despair, the overwhelming knowledge of being alone.
19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.Don't do original sin, me. I believe that children are innocent, until they grow old enough to know right from wrong, and then, when they choose wrong (which they inevitably do), then they have sin. I don't believe we are all born with sin, just that sin is in our nature, it is a part of us. You're not born condemned, you just inevitably end up that way, because of the diseas of sin inside of you. I'll get my Catholic friend to add some.
I don't put much credence in Original Sin either...I'm pretty sure that Jesus also washed us clean of that one. But just because we are not born in sin does not mean that we won't eventually sin. And we will, and we do.
This brings us back to the bathtub metaphor...to wash, one must actually get in the bathtub.
20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.It doesn't. Baptism is not what saves you. 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism symbolizes your commitment to Christ by accepting him as your savior.
It was once symbolic of being washed clean of sin, and many still keep this idea. While this might seem less that necessary for an infant, it has great meaning for people who first get baptized at age 30. We get this symbolism, of course, from John the Baptist, for he did baptize for the forgiveness of sins. However, with the sacrifice of Jesus, this is unnecessary, and baptism has become a symbol of...a sort of "putting on" of Christ.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."1 Corinthians 10:13
I actually asked this very question to a youth minister once. While he didn't have all the answers, what he said was basically this: What's the point of having people who follow you and love you if they don't have a choice? They don't really love you, they have to love you: what kind of love is that? God gave them the choice. They chose wrongly. God gives everyone the same choice.
22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.Mathew 19:12 refers to nuns and monks, which refers to 1 Corinthians 7.
Paul is saying that sex isn't a sin at all if your married to him/her, just that you can be closer to God if you don't have to worry about a wife or a husband. There's a verse I can't find at the moment that says that it's easier to focus on God when God is the only thing your focused on, as opposed to worrying about God and your wife/husband.
Galatians 5:17 has nothing to do with sex. That's any sin, not just sex.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 is sexual immorality, which would be premarrital sex, adultery, and (if you believe so; I'm not trying to argue this) homosexuality.
James 1:14-15 again has nothing to do with sex specifically.
Matthew 24:38: not sure...need help. Same for Luke 17:27
Revelation 14:4: See 1 Thessalonians 4:3
I think a lot of Christians get their well-known bad attitude towards sex from Paul, personally. Paul had a very dim view of sex...that was his personal opinion, and never intended as doctrine. But it's kind of become a doctrine regardless.
I might point out one of the most fun books in the Bible to read, the Song of Solomon. That is Kama-Sutra grade stuff in there - it's a very, very sexy, steamy book...it is all erotic love poetry. I think that, if anything, the message of the Bible is that sex is very fun, but as with anything else must be enjoyed responsibly. Sex is a unification of two persons, a complete giving of one's self to another. That's not something to take with a grain of salt. I think that the Bible rightly argues against sleeping around and having a dozen (or way more) partners over a month's (or a life's) time, because then this fun and highly unitive act of giving becomes a cheap, trashy thrill.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.Matthew 16:27-28 may or may not refer to Revelation...Not sure...need help.
Also "soon" is a very relative term. For someone who's been around for all eternity, and will always be around, soon can mean anything.
24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.I referenced to #3. Not entirely sure why I did, but I’ll leave it. I think because those people screwed up.
I can't speculate on the reason, except that it is this: in those times, persecution was rampant, and there was a high probability that Christianity could have been wiped out (which, of course, God as Jesus has promised will not happen). So perhaps a more convincing proof was needed to keep the faith strong and despair in check in those dark, desperate times.
Paul is a special case, since he began his career as a persecutor of Christians.
25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?I didn’t know what you were talking about so…
There are two main "inconsistencies" that everyone points to...the number of women that come to visit the tomb, and the position of the stone upon their arrival.
In regards to the women...just because some Gospels don't mention as many of the women present as others do doesn't mean that all the women weren't there. Some Gospel authors give more attention to detail, while others focus only on the major players. It's all well and good to mention that Mary, the mother of Clopus, was at the tomb...but it's not necessary to mention her when it is only Mary Magdalene who actually says anything at the time.
In regards to the stone, it is always presented as open when the women arrive. In at least one account, there is mention of an angel rolling back the stone...but the angel does so chronologically prior to the arrival of the women at the tomb, and so the tomb is in fact open when the women get there.
26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).Well, devine providence is the reason anyone believes any form of the Bible. We still use a Catholic version of the Bible because it's still the Bible. There's a verse I can't find right now about how the word of God cannot be added to or subtracted from: it's either the Bible or it's not. The Catholic Bible is still the Bible, nothing added, nothing subtracted.
Actually, the Catholic Bible now typically includes the Apocrypha, as well as numerous other small books, additions to Esther, and all sorts of other things like that. At least, the Bible at every Catholic Church I've ever been to (roughly a dozen different parishes) has had these additions.
It should be noted, though, that while these extra books make for interesting reading, the major weight of the Bible for Christians resides in precisely 4 books - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Every Bible has these, so any Bible is as equally valid as the others.
I do, however, disagree with the last point. Just because it contains those books, I don’t think it means it’s the Bible. Plenty of people like to include that, but are very far from being Christian.
27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?So? Never says God's a vegan. Besides, have you seen these animals? They are kinda cute ;)
This is sometimes called the "Darwinian Paradox". The world is a system, and each creature and plant is a part of that system. God placed animals and plants both as food for humanity, so it makes logical sense to think that he would not have forbade other animals from eating still other animals in turn...we're hardly the only creatures that need good sources of protein, after all.
More to it, I think everyone can agree that the existence of predator/prey relationships keeps the system in balance. It prevents animal species from overpopulating an area and depleting its resources, thus leading to massive deaths among the same population. This is a very smartly-implemented system.
28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?Curse from Adam and Eve's sin. As for why parasites...Not a clue...
Parasites and bacteria play a vital role! We couldn't digest out food without certain micro-organisms, one of which is none other than the famed E-Coli. Some parasites play a similar role. Leeches, for example, can be used to clean out some wounds.
Much of this also goes back to regulating the system that is life on Earth. All creatures breed and reproduce, and all creatures are capable of overpopulating an area to an extreme level. Virii and parasites also serve to keep popluations in check, so that there are not massive epidemics of starvation.
29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?He's not threatening. Just pointing out. Besides, you still have a choice. I know plenty of people who knowingly choose to go to Hell. Granted, I don't think they really know what they're getting into. You always have a choice. Yeah, eternal damnation's not a nice choice, but a choice all the same.
Also, if it's such an obvious choice, why do so many people choose hell? You'd think the idea of fire and brimestone and the stuff from #18 would make people choose God, but hey, obviously people still choose hell. See #21.
Everyone has a choice between Heaven and Hell, plain and simple. God is not threatening, but merely reminding us that both exist. We are free to choose between the two, and while the choice should be obvious...for whatever reason (pride, typically) choose that which is not Heaven.
30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.God doesn't force, he allows. See #29 and 21
This is rather silly...the passage in Romans 9 pretty much explains God's rationale. God is acting as a parent again, permitting much but correcting the errant child when necessary. In a certain sense, this is also a reminder...God knows all, sees all, and rules all. God occasionally chooses to show this in spectacular example...but it should be noted that in doing so, God shows a greater mercy as well. The Egyptians were a pagan people, but they were an honourable and loyal people. Had God made them God's own, their faith would likely have been strong and rarely with fault (unlike the Israelites, who screwed up more times than most Bibles have pages)! And yet God chooses again the Israelites.
31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.He wasn't damned. I believe that he probably didn't go to hell. The Bible never really says. On that note, Luke 22:3. It was Satan, not God.
Assuming Jesus had to die (which he did), how was anyone going to be able to convict him if not to betray him with falsehood? Jesus did no wrong, and no charge brought against him in truth would have stuck. So the Chief Priests and the Pharisees had to turn to falsehood in order to convict him...but they knew they would have to do this! Much like a rich man hires a hit man to kill someone because the rich man himself has a distaste for the task and doesn't want to be a killer himself, so the Chief Priests and the Pharisees hired Judas (who allowed himself to be bought) to betray Jesus.
A big part of this is that Judas allowed himself to be bought. Think of it this way: God knew that Judas would allow himself to be bought, and worked around this in his divine plan. NOT: God made his divine plan, and caused Judas to fit into it by being bought.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?See #31. BTW, I believe that Jesus descended into hell. Time is relative, so three days on earth can be an eternity in hell.
33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).See Romans 3:8. See also #30 and 26.
Because people can change and honestly repent their sin.
34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.Touchy subject...My answer (that I know my friend will disagree with): Satan made homosexuals. That's all I got. Rather, God made them, Satan made them gay.
Keep in mind that that is my own personal opinion. Don’t think that all Christians will think that. My own opinion, I don’t want to get in a flame war about it.
(he disagrees…thought so)
First, Leviticus. Few if any of the Levitical Laws are still in practice among Christians today, except the ones born of common-sense. In the transition from the Old Testament to the New, the need to follow the complex ritual and dietary laws of Leviticus and other books in order to attain salvation is eliminated. Most Christians today follow very few of the Levitical Laws, besides - as mentioned - common-sense things, like not having sexual relations with close relatives. It is nothing more than narrow-minded hypocrisy on the part of people attempting to sinfully hide behind the label of "Christian" while spreading a message (contrary to that of Jesus) of hate and exclusion that quote from Leviticus nowadays...and they probably eat shellfish, too (which carries an equal penalty to homosexuality in Leviticus).
Secondly, Romans. This actually references back to #30...if you read the passage before, the example people here are filled with every manner of wickedness at the beginning. God therefore says to them "so be it, have it your way" and lets them choose their course. There is a good deal of speculation that in this passage, the argument is being made against ritualistic sexual acts (i.e. as a part of pagan worship, an orgy)...and ONLY that.
35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.A book I read has great response for this:
All power comes from God.
Magic is stolen power, stolen by Satan from God.
Spells are not a request, but a demand. No also that most of the "requesting" is not requesting of God, but of Satan in spell casting.
Matthew 26:42
36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.I'm sure most of us have heard of persecution, right? Think of the Diary of Anne Frank...that book took a few years to come to light, even with much more modern means of communication and publishing. In ancient times, there weren't radios and printing presses, so it comes as little surprise that it took a while for the message to "take off" as it did.
As well, let us not forget that for many years after the death of Jesus, the apostles went throughout the world teaching and spreading the message of Jesus. Only toward the end of their lives would they have found time, and probably the will, to actually record all that Jesus did and was...much as most celebrities today don't write their memoirs until they hit 60 or 70.
37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born. There are numerous records from the Roman Empire that speak of Jesus. His crucifixion was noted in Roman records. There is historical basis for his existence.
38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.See #1. Also, I believe that many pagan rites and such came from a perversion of Biblical ideas and concepts. (not entirely sure why I referenced to #1.
Christ is the Anglican form of the Greek word "Christos" which is derived from the Hebrew word "Messiah."" Since Christ is synonymous with Messiah, it is logical that if we want to know the meaning of the word Christ then we need to know the definition of the word Messiah.
According to several years of Encyclopedia Brittanica, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Hebrew Dictionary, the definition of the word "Messiah" is:
An Anointed Male Lineal Descendant of King David
39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).Not anti-gentile, just pro-israelite. See #38.
I think you'd better share your research for the meaning of Christ, eh? Pagan sexual ritual? The annointing of the body was a common burial practice among the Israelites, and Christ was buried in the same fashion as any Jew of the day would have been.
We've addressed the anti-Gentile bit already.
Anti-sex? Luke 14:26 doesn't have a thing to do with sex - Christ is saying that we cannot value family above God, that's all. That's true of anything...money, our family, our own life. God is what we should value and strive for first, for as much as we love these other things they can (and do) pull us away from God. That is not to say we should not love other things...family, friends, and ourselves especially (money not so much) but it is to say that we should not be drawn away from God by these things. And if you could be bothered to make quotations in context, you'd see that Matt 19:12 finishes up a talk Jesus gives on divorce. Sex is not a bad thing here, although divorce is (except in cases of unchastity...cheating).
For the record, read the context for all this. You’re cherry-picking quite a bit.
40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.Because there will be peace in Heaven. Also, inner peace and calm.
Assuming we would quote the verse in context and include the next few lines of the passage, what Jesus is talking about here is precisely what we are engaged in...in this forum thread. Jesus is saying to all present that faith in him will not be easy, that it will set the Christians apart from others in the world and make us who profess our faith objects of scorn and derision. He also follows it up by saying, again, that if we love earthly things and people more than we love God, we risk being pulled away from God by these things and people.
41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information? In Hebrew texts of the Bible, the name is Yeshua (sic?). (meaning; Salvation - God Saves)
As to how "Jesus" came about, that was likely first because of a Latinization of the word, probably "Ieshua". And of course, the anglicanized Latin "I" is often a "J", so "Jeshua", "Joshua", and "Jesus".
42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?See #38
Many religions have tales of saviours, it is true. To my knowledge, Jesus is the only one that has been documented as having actually arrived.
43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?Why make it easier for people? Set the example. Note also that you still have a choice, a choice to break the law. People tend to forget that you do have the choice to break the law, you just have to pay the concequences. See 1, 12, and 13.
Christians are told to go and preach to the world...HOWEVER, we are also instructed that if any place reject us, we are to turn from there and "shake the dust from our sandals as we go, as a testament against them". Which means that, as Christians, we are called to spread the message of Christ. But if anyone says "I don't want to listen", we are to respect that and move on.
This actually, indirectly, goes back to the questions about the persecutions. Not because this is a persecution, per se, but because Christians are forgetting a part of the message. They are within their right to express their beliefs in the public domain...that is their calling as Christians. Many Christians forget the second part of the directive, however...when people reject the message, move on to the next town.
44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).Matthew 28:19-20 doesn't say you have to do it to get in to heaven, just that you should.
Similarly, why am I forced to listen to Big Bang, allow gay marriage in certain states, and forbidden from praying in school?
See #43
45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.See #3. People screw up. It’s not required. Also, people don’t do research before they say things.
The truth of Christ is that which is in the Gospels, no? What do the Gospels say?
There are many things that can be worshipped. Certainly in the Bible, there are many gods that the people worship that are not God. There is some evidence to support the conclusion that these other gods exist as God does, though they have vastly less power. I can't think of anywhere it is mentioned that Satan is behind them all. However, going back to the wedding banquet metaphor...
...the wedding banquet is held in but one hall in the city. There may be other banquet halls, but only one will house the banquet (Heaven). Anywhere else is not the banquet.
46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?Matthew 27:43
John 3:16
John 19:7
Mark 14: 61-62...Jesus says he is the son of the 'Blessed One' (i.e. God). Also Matthew 16: 15-17
47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?Buddhism stole the idea? That, and it's not like just because someone thought it, no one else can think it up on their own.
Indeed...I think that the fact that the idea appears in multiple philosophies speaks volumes about its universailty and its truth. Unless there is some unknown evidence that Jesus studied Buddhist principle?
With all due respect, it seems likely that Jesus did indeed reach these conclusions on his own. The example of the Beatitudes is interesting...I always think of Life of Brian, and the part where the people in the crowd are commenting on the Beatitudes.
"Did he say the Greek shall inherit the Earth?"
"What Greek??"
"No, he said the MEEK shall inherit the Earth!"
"Oh, that's nice...the meek should get something."
It's funny because it illustrates well that contemporary Judaism at the time had gotten away from these teachings. Where Jesus' true brilliance shows through, I think, is in the parables...2000 years on, there are still profound in both their simplicity (important, given the probably lack of education amongst the crowds Jesus would have preached to) and their potency.
48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?85%!? Right! Where'd you get that? Poll I heard was 66% claim to be Christian, and some 33% of that are actually Christian.
That's more of a command against revenge and such. Just because I turn my cheek, it doesn't mean I have to enjoy getting beat. See #3 also.
As one priest I know once quipped..."The Bible says 'turn the other cheek'. It doesn't say 'be a sucker'. It doesn't say 'after you turn the other cheek, come back next week to get slapped again'. We're supposed to bear the slurs and anger at the time, instead of lashing out for revenge. But that doesn't mean we're obligated to become the world's doormat...and we are within our rights to demand to be treated fairly and not abused just because.
49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?See #3. People want their same old lives, don’t want to change the routine. And, people are stubborn. If they see that they can be Christian and still keep their age-old customs, they're more likely to be Christian. Also, the church at the time was quite corrupt. Part of it was trying to make it seem like they were doing better than they were.
Church was very good at outreach, and let us also not forget that those festival days were key points not only of the ritual year, but of local commerce as well...and indeed almost every facet of life for these pagan cultures. So it makes sense that the Church would have adopted these days...familiarity is a good thing, and it means that local commerce - and even crop cycles! - are not disrupted by the arrival of Christianity.
In a sense, it is an appeal to reason. There is a poetic signifigance to it...Christmas in winter (poetically, winter means the death of the world, dark times) so the light of the newborn Jesus can shine out and shatter the dark. Easter in Spring for the New Life in the Resurrection.
50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.This is another of those metaphor things that some of us have heard of...why is it that atheists and militant anti-Christians are more literalist, it seems, in their interpretations of the Bible than Jerry Falwell?
God is speaking again of the choice all have...the choice that is in God (which bears eternal reward long after we pass from this Earth) or the choice that is not God.
Note also that there is a confusing element in what is said...a thousand generations of reward. Why not a thousand generations of suffering? Because God forgives. What this passage speaks to is repentance in God...and so it does speak of justice. God does not stay angry with us forever when we transgress. God's anger is not eternal. Only God's love.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).Matthew 1.
Also, see #50.
The Old Testament is a part of Christian theology in the sense that it provides the account of how God spoke to the world and interacted with his chosen people before the coming of Jesus, as well as the prophecies that foretold of Jesus. There are many accounts in the Old Testament of God growing angry, this is true. And yet each time, it serves to note that God's wrath is short, and the outpouring of love and blessings that follow it is vastly larger.
All this changes when God finally comes among us as a person, and yet remains the same. God gives us the greatest outpouring of love possible...God. God, in the person of Jesus, becomes human, lives as a human, suffers as a human...and dies as a human. In doing so, God signals that no longer will there be an outpouring of power, no harsh discipline to correct the errant children. Instead, the children will already be cleansed, and need only to recognize this for themselves. The choice is truly theirs.
52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).That would be a demonstration of his power. Notice that the entire nation was worshipping a false god, Baal, I believe, and refused to listen to Elija, despite many performed miracles. See 50.
53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape). Notice that nowhere is Lot labelled as being "in the right" to offer his daughters to the mob. The only right actions in that whole scene are taken by the messengers...they blind the mob temporarily, take the family, and flee. They remove the (marginally) righteous family from the danger.
There are many examples of prostitution and other immoral sexual acts in the Bible, and I can't think of a-one of them that is presented as anything other than immoral. That's right, human beings sin. What...a...surprise...
54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?Not any one sin, but the weight of all sin, and the way in which it stains us. Much as bathwater sacrifices its relatively pristine condition so that we can get the dirt off of our skin, so the sacrifice of Jesus that we might be cleansed from our sins and no longer bound by them.
I personally believe that any one sin can separate you from God. By that I mean, you are perfect and can get into heaven until you sin, once. But, it’s so easy to make yourself clean again. All you have to do is ask Jesus….
55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.John 14:6. They're not bad, per se, just lost.
56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.See 55. BTW, I think that atheism is another faith...so...yeah...
This and #55 are addressed in the wedding banquet parable. If you don't accept the invitation, if you don't come to the banquet hall...will you be able to eat the wedding feast? The waiters certainly aren't going to bring it out to you if you stay in your house halfway across town.
57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?While I admire your ability to use big words, there's no need to be loquacious. Nobody here has tried to convert you. We've answered your questions with direct answers. If at any point we've sounded rather preachy...well, I won't apologize, because we have nothing to apologize for. We have responded in the best way to answer each question you have posed.
If I have: How can I simply let you go to hell? If you are wrong, than I should tell you the truth, so that you can be right. If your best friend was drunk, would you let him walk out with the keys without even saying a word to him? Remember the banquet: you’re invited, I want to make sure you get the invitation.
58. Where is Heaven?My guess? Outside the known universe (which is, in fact, finite. I forget how big it is, but it does end.)
The Kindom of Heaven is now! It's all around us! It is inside the Universe! It is outside the Universe! It is everywhere, and nowhere!
59. Where is Hell?#58
Hell is where Heaven is not. This is answered better in a later question, so keep on reading! :)
A good, simple answer for both would be: Heaven is where God is, hell is where he isn’t.
60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?Breath of life. That’s not just physical life, it’s metaphoric (like most of the Bible) to spiritual life as well. Animals don't have souls. Also, we were created in God's image.
61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?To try to beat God. Actually, he doesn't get them, I think, he just doesn't want them to go to Heaven.
Misery loves company...
62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?#61. This also goes back to 59.
Depends. It may be that he tortures them. It may be that he abandons them to their own misery. I don't imagine it's anything pleasant.
This goes back to the question of where hell is. Depending on what someone answers for that, you’ll get a different answer for this.
63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.See the one were I talked about people dying in his presence.
Yes. This is easiest exemplified through the life of Jesus (who was God enfleshed)...Jesus was without sin, without blemish or flaw. This fact is established again and again in the Gospels: for Jesus(=God) to be able to die for our sins, Jesus himself could have no sin about him. None but one who is perfect could attain this.
While this may be hard to accept, I see God’s being perfect as a simple fact. The sky is blue, and God is perfect.
64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.Body is a temple and such. 1 Corinthians 6:19
65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt. Satan is but one name Christians attach to the Devil. We can believe in the Devil because in several places in the Gospels, Jesus has some very pointed conversations with ol' Lucy.
66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.Prosper on earth. They receive their reward in hell.
Precisely. This is why sin is so tempting, and is well illustrated by the Devil's temptation of Jesus in the desert. The Devil, and the wages of sin, promise great rewards, and in this world will often deliver them. For example, dishonesty, especially in the business world, can lead to huge profits for a company...why do you suppose companies like Nike still use what are basically sweatshops? It's dishonesty and greed...they don't have to pay these workers anything resembling an honest wage, which means more profits (which, out of greed, they desire).
That's just smashing great...until you die and the check arrives at your table. ;)
67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.They receive their reward in heaven.
Good people will typically sacrifice a part of themselves, whether it is time, wealth, or even health, for another person, or for many other people. They will resist sin (as much as is reasonable) and so not necessarily reap all the easy rewards that sin can bring. As an example...an honest person will pay a worker an honest wage, reserving fewer of the profits of a business for themselves.
68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.Read "Left Behind" for a good idea of what it might be like.
Revelation 11:9-12 talks about how many will lay dead, and then have God breathe life into their bodies again and be called into heaven.
69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.See my explaination of how I think children are sinless until they choose to sin. I believe they go to Heaven, which is way better than living out their lives on Earth, I'd think.
Luke 13:1-5. This is an ancient question...why does God let these things happen...were these people somehow worse sinners than other people? Of course not. But we cannot know the hour or the place in which God will call us home, and for some of us that is only a short time after our birth. It sounds cruel, but is it really? Our time is at an end...what of it? There is no need to fear death.
What the passage from Luke tells us is that the question is somewhat irrelevant. These things happen. Why does a plane crash? Any number of reasons...equipment failure, shoddy craftsmanship, a bomb goes off, hijackers, a drunken or fatigued pilot. The list is endless. Should we expect God to intervene? Or should we instead acknowledge that our lives are fragile things, inferior next to the sheer capacity we have to destroy that life? Should we ask God to intervene...or be ready to meet God when it's our time?
On that note, BE READY. You don’t know your time. Be ready, always, and this won’t be a problem.
70. What is sin, exactly?Doing what God said not to.
A sin is an action in which a person harms another, causes hurt to another, or causes offence to another. A sin is the outcome of a choice - we must choose to contravene what we know to be right. This includes sins of omission, which is when we choose inaction where some form of action is actually the right action. Sins are also selfish actions, in which we choose to act in a manner that benefits us without a thought to whether it will hurt another.
It could be argued that not believing in God, which is also a sin, does not fall into this category. It sounds cheesy, but it's true...God is hurt when we choose a different path. Thus, if God is real, then this too is a sin.
71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).Even Jesus has anger. Withering the fig tree did no harm to anyone. And how does this make him not perfect?
What Jesus is doing here is giving example, yet again (do try and remember that, in the beginning, the apostles were thick as bricks). The fig tree is a metaphor for us...all of us are given the opportunity to "bear fruit" (in good deeds, acts of charity, preaching the message, whatever). If we choose not to do this, we too shall wither.
72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).The Jews were the ones who called for it. Now, I don't believe in any way that the Bible (and "The Passion of Christ") is anti-semetic, considering that the savior of the human race is also Jewish.
This lie has been spread under the same justification that the previously mentioned persecutions used. Once again, it is an example of people using the Christian label to spread a message of hate that is contrary to what is truly Christian.
However, it serves to note that Pilate did not want to crucify Jesus, and found no crime against him. Only to avoid a probable revolt by the people, to appease the crowd, did he finally hand Jesus over. And the only reason the crowd was so set against Jesus is because the religious authorities of the Jewish people stirred them up against him. That's right...the Bible is not anti-Jewish. It is anti-"hypocritical religious authorities".
And can you believe that the Catholic just said that? ;)
73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"He made us perfect, we fell. See my explanation of Adam/Eve's sin.
We don't need to live up to the standards, though. The only standards we need to be able to live up to are:
- recognize that Jesus died to free us from the bonds of sin
- recognize that we have sinned
- ask forgiveness, in Jesus and of those we have wronged, for our sins
How very impossible.
74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?Satan. Sin. We were made in his image, we were not made to be Him.
75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice. We no longer need to sacrifice animals. It's wrong because it means that you don't believe in Jesus' sacrifice. Now, if you sacrificed an animal to Jesus/God to show your love, knowing of Jesus' sacrifice, I see no problem/
Just about bang-on, except that Jesus doesn't want or ask for animal sacrifices as far as I know.
God sacrificed God for us...what sacrifice could we offer that would equal this? None. God knows this, and asks nothing of us.
Just to clarify what I meant as an acceptable sacrifice: A farmer wants to give to God. God does call us to give our time, our money, indeed, our whole lives to him. If the farmer were to sacrifice his best cow, that would be a gift of all three, money, time, and part of his life. It does nothing to save him, but it is an act of worship. It is symbolic only.
76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?1 Sam 7:10: he confused the bad-guys. He was helping the good guys.
Gen 11:9: They were making a tower to reach God. God said that you can't do that, but they tried anyway. See consequences of sin.
77. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)Talk to almost any deaf/blind/mute people. They will almost certainly tell you that it's not a curse at all. They don't think of themselves as handicapped. They accept it, so you should too.
In many cases, God does this because he wants to assist his chosen people against their persecutors. In other instances, God causes these effects somewhat inadvertently. For a non-Biblical example, think of Icarus. Blinded, because he flew too near the beautiful sun. So too with God...the sheer radiance and brilliance of God would definitely cause sensory overload.
Saul/Paul is a great example. Blinded by God’s brilliance, but because of it he was brought to Christ.
78. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).See the verse about God tempting us, waaaaaaay up there.
This is God again intervening to preserve God's chosen. To prevent the deliberately wicked (note the part in this passage about "tak[ing] pleasure in their unrighteousness") from corrupting and attacking the faithful, God distracts them. They already believe, worship, and pursue that which is "false"...God is allowing them to continue in this, so that they might be distracted from spreading their corruption.
79. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Justify your answer.I think it can be, though Mr. Aiera disagrees. But, if you do take it literally, you must also recognize the metaphors as well.
No. Let us think again of the day and age, and the persecution of Christians, and the need to occasionally speak in a sort of code. Revelation is a powerful metaphor for the Second Coming, but it is also a powerful message of hope to the Christians of the day enduring the suffering of persecution. It is saying..."see all that we shall suffer, but we shall be victorious and lifted up in the end".
80. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.See the verses Paul wrote about marriage. Same concept.
On a related note, does anyone remember that passage "put out your eye if it causes you to sin"? Jesus is not there, nor is he in Matt 19:12, advocating any sort of self-mutilation. What he is advocating is faithfulness.
If you choose to give yourself (sexually) to one person, keep it to that one person. If for whatever reason that one person departs from you, or you from them, do not seek to become sexually active with another, for what you have given to one cannot again be given to another...in sex (which is great!) we are joined completely to another person (2 become 1, remember?), and we leave a part of ourselves with them that we cannot ever get back or give again.
And he's saying that if you choose instead to give yourself over completely to God, then do not give yourself to any other.
81. What exactly is faith?OO! I love this one! I don't even have to use the Bible for this one!
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary
pg. 408
(1) faith: 2 b (1) firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) complete confidence 3 something that is believed esp with strong conviction; esp: a system of religious beliefs
(2) faith: BELIEVE, TRUST
Although, for something a little more poetic: Faith: is the assurance of things hoped for, the belief in things not yet seen

82. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.I don't ignore them, or at least, try not to. See #1. In any case, it's not OK, ever.
It's not a case of ignoring it. I don't think anyone I know ignores parts of the Bible. However, two things are worth noting:
- some parts of the Bible are more important. While the book of Amos is a good read, it's not nearly as important as, say, the Gospel of John to the Christian faith.
- interpretations between Christian denominations is often varied, and we might each view any particular part of the Bible in a vastly different manner. We might also ignore other interpretations (though I'd hope not!)
83. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Couldn't your god have better spent his time punishing unbelievers?See God tempting us.
Also, freedom of choice, something God has given humanity from the placement of the Tree of Knowledge in Genesis onward. God allows us to choose between God and Satan, because that is what true faith involves - choice!
84. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?They are separate people, but part of one body. The Trinity is confusing, I don't get it completely...
St. Patrick explains the Trinity with a three-leaved clover, which is of course a misnomer. One clover, three leaves. The three leaves are one clover, and so are all one, but each leaf can also interact with the other two. Thus, Jesus can pray.
85. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.Ecclesiastes 9:5…
This talks of spiritual and physical lives at once. The living (those who will be saved) know that they will die in this world (implicit: but be raised in the hereafter), wheras the dead (unsaved) will die in this world and not know life eternal in God.

Job 7:9...You have to read the whole story of Job. Also, I think he's refering to physical life, not spiritual life. Physical life is indeed, permanent, except for those few special times Jesus/God intervened.
I think here, what is being said is that those who make the worldly things their master will not return again to Heaven. If money, power, sex, and even people - indeed, all things of this world - get put before God, the one who embraces them will not have life beyond this world.
86. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn't it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.But then it wouldn't have been a sacrifice, which would completely dissolve the whole thing. See answer to #1. Also, part of his death was a spiritual death as well.
Christ had to die in this manner in order that the full weight of sin might fall on him, so that it could perish along with him. He had to die in a manner rife with the sins of others so that the full burden would be there for him to absorb.
87. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?Jesus was tempted so that he would have gone through everything that man goes through.
This illustrates Jesus' sinless nature. It is perfectly reasonable to think that Jesus could have said yes to any one of the Devil's offers, and yet he consistently chose not to, thus remaining free from sin even while thirsty and starving.
88. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn't prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.People love to missuse this verse...
It means that when you pray, it should be about God, not about yourself. There's another verse that says when you pray to God (not for yourself), that you should do it in view of others, to set an example.In other words, when you pray, you should pray as if you were alone in your closet.
89. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"; Luke 23:46: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"; John 19:30: "It is finished").Different points of view:
It is likely that he said all three of these things...each author chose to include the most signifigant in their eyes.
Take "My God, My God...", for example. It's a powerful phrase, often confusing when you first think about it. But flip to Psalm 22. What Jesus is doing, even in death, is calling attention to the Scriptures, giving the opening line (they weren't numbered back then) to a Psalm that foretells all he was to endure, and for what purpose.
The other two have relatively obvious meaning. Jesus dies...he commends his spirit to God. His time on Earth, his mission and purpose, are finished.
90. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" This has traditionally been translated as, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" However, a more accurate translation would be, "My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?" El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?Heard this before. Again, Eloi probably came first, and pagans perversed it.
I have a friend who speaks fluent Hebrew. He has no idea where you get your word of choice - El - from. This is a call to one of the (many) names of God. What website did your translation come from?
91. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is "The LORD is my shepherd." (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.You're taking it too literally. That's a bad idea for the most part with the Bible. He is refering to the nature of sheep to wander off. Know also that a shepherd's life revolves around his sheep. David fought off lions and bears and such for his sheep. I think that's an appropriate image.
Precisely. The metaphor of shepherd and sheep refers exactly to the tendency of sheep to get very lost, and often stuck in bizarre situations. And it refers to the willingness of the shepherd to lay down his life for his sheep in order to protect and preserve them.
92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.It isn't. I just comes down to faith.
Actually, I take it back. Occam's (sp?) Razor, which is scientifically sound and proven (i think) and such says that the simplest answer, given two equally valid theories, is most often correct. Which is simpler? Matter condensed, forming a superheated mass of almost infinitely dense matter, which exploded outward, sending matter in all directions. Gravity pulled groups of matter together in swirling masses, where the lighter elements condensed in the middle forming stars, leaving the heavier elements to form planets (and that’s leaving out the origin of life); Or, God said so?
And who is to say that God creating the Universe wouldn't have happened with a whopping-big BANG?
93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent? It's there in scripture - there is a divide between Heaven and Hell that none may cross. Hell is a complete seperation from God.
Now we're deep in the metaphysical swamp...hope you brought your boots. God is infinite, but if we can look to mathematics for a second, we find a number called aleph naught. This is a number that, for lack of a better explanation, exists outside infinity, without disrupting the concept of infinity. So too with Hell.
Also, something I thought about in light of Jesus descending to hell...since hell is timeless, Jesus is in hell...forever...so in a way, God is in hell...Metaphysics…couldn’t tell ya.
94. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn't Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.Jeremiah 20:7 screwed up. Read the context. You're not supposed to say stuff like that to God.
Ezekiel 14:9 I think refers to false prophets.
And no, God didn't lie then. First off, when he sent them out of the garden, they no longer had access to the Tree of Life, which granted eternal life, so yes, they died, whereas they could have lived forever. Also, that's a metaphor for spiritual death, and decent into hell.
95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?I know this sounds horrible, and again, I wish I could make it sound better but: people are stupid. Just because Satan has followers, it doesn't mean he's more powerful. Indeed, remember that God doesn't force you to follow him. Satan will, or at least, try.
Pretty much. The thing is, most of us are "followers" of Satan in a sense. It's not like an organized conspiracy...we "follow" the Devil when we sin. Many are those who embrace sinful actions, of whatever form, and even attempt to corrupt others into doing the same. This could be a boss who asks an employee to fudge financial records, for example.
96. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn't this at least a little bit absurd? Also, because your god is often referred to in the bible as both male and female (such as by the word `Elohim'), is it not more likely that your god is androgynous? Justify your answer.I think it's mostly because calling God "It" wouldn't be very flattering. Also, while God may not have gender, Jesus certainly did. So instead of calling Him "It", He took the side he's closest to, male.
I think God is above concepts of gender. But let's remember the education level of the apostles and the crowds originally being preached to, and even the people of the first few (or several) centuries. It's better to have a concrete reference, such as a gender-specific pronoun, in order to fully communicate the "person-ness" of God. Why they chose male? Any number of reasons...and I don't think it makes a difference if people call God female, at all.
97. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn't Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.Again, the Trinity is confusing...
No, because the Trinity is one entity with three parts. Clover leaf. To make it as dumbed down as possible...there is only one clover. I only worship one clover.
As for Mary...we don't worship Mary. Mary is an intercessor...for lack of a better way to put it, we ask Mary to pray for us to her son (because, if you notice in several places in the Bible, she always seems to know just how to go about asking him to act...reference: the wedding at Cana). Do I really need to haul out my brief analysis of the "Hail Mary" again?
Hail Mary, Full of Grace - a greeting
The Lord is with thee - being that both Mary and Jesus are in heaven, this is a literal statement of fact
Blessed are thou among women
_and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus - Elizabeth's greeting to Mary
Holy Mary, Mother of God - statement of fact (Jesus = God)
Pray for us sinners - the meat of it...we're asking her to pray for us...
Now and at the hour of our death - ...and to KEEP praying for us (we need the help ;) )
Amen - should be obvious...
Saints follow the same concept...they are also intercessors. There is only one thing I worship: God
98. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert anyone to a religion that you don't know that much about? Isn't knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn't understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?Have you read every Atheistic theory and such? I don't claim to have read it all, nor do I claim to know all. But, I'll share what I do know. Why let people live in ignorance when they can get at least a bit of knowledge?
Yes. Over all the years - yes.
This is true, too. Yes, you should try to read the entire Bible. But is there any reason to withhold what I already know?
99. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?There are plenty of verses that are repeated. I think this goes with the whole "people are stupid" thing. They won't listen the first time, so tell them again.
100. Is Jesus's three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?See my explanation earlier...Hell is timeless.

101. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, which translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.Um...I don't bother with translation issues...I don't think there is any one "official" version.
The KJV is highly riddled with translation errors, some of them deliberate (the good king wanted excuses to persecute the Catholic minority in England at the time). As for translations...the NRSV is regarded as the most accurate, from a literal text standpoint. Especially the Oxford-Annotated version. It was put together by a team of...what? 30 translators? However many, they were a blend of religious (and not just Christian) and secular scholars.
What is important to note is that while the literal text might be slightly different from version to version, the message (overall) has endured. That is because the message transcends language.
I also think that God is smart enough to keep his word from degrading. He’s God, why would he just let his word be screwed up permanently?
102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.He still died. Just because you don't believe he didn't do it, it doesn't mean he didn't do it. I could believe you never posted this all I want, but you still posted it. See Everyone (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6774014&posted=1#post6774014)
"Ask not what Jesus can do for you. Ask what you can do for Jesus!"
Sorry...I just couldn't resist the opportunity to paraphrase Kennedy. Having said that...what did Jesus do for you? He died so that, should you choose to recognize this, you could be freed from sin. He died for all of us. What more can you ask of a person? Or did you want fries with that? ;)
I think Jesus has already done enough.
The better question to ask is "what have we done for Jesus?", though. What have we done for the one who died for us?
103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.
Did Mary object? Actually, she did, I think...But God convinced her. He didn't just say "Here's Jesus, Bye." He talked with her in her dream, not just to her.
I seem to recall that the angel came to Mary and said "Blessed are you, and here's the plan." Mary replied, after contemplation, with "Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word". She gives her consent. If she had no choice, why did she give consent?
She had the choice, it wasn't rape. She did discuss the matter with the angel ("How can this be, for I am a virgin?") and the angel explained the plan a little more in detail. See Luke 1.
104. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).Would you want to be crucified? I certainly wouldn't. In any case, having fore-knowledge of it, having all opportunity to avoid it, and having the ultimate power to call upon legions of angels to smite everyone who tried it, he still went through with it. Doesn't that say so much more?
105. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?Again, Trinity. A pastor of my church did a great sermon on this. It boils down to what the three parts of the Trinity do:
God is the thinker. He plans, he knows, etc.
Jesus is the sayer. John 1:1 "the word", also "good news", etc. He tells what God wants to be done.
The Spirit is the doer. It saves, it acts, etc.
So the father is the start of all this. It all originates with him.
106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?Actually, some believe that Mary had sexual relations with God. (I do not).
Also, a bastard is technically a boy without a known father.
Lastly, since there was no sex (I believe), than there was no sin in Jesus' conception. The Bible doesn't say you can't have children out of wedlock, just no sex. And since it's hard (and impossible in Jesus' day) to have a child without sex, people have to assume that it is adultery.
107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?Not gonna touch this one...
This is reaching...and getting quite comical. What website is this from? Getting back to Genesis...God's relation to man is similar to the relation of men to women (in the context of gender relations of the day). This is the same as Paul in Ephesians or Corinthians..."as man is the head of the wife (no commentary, note, on whether this is the "right way"...it's just a convenient example in the societal context of the day) so Christ (God) is the head of the Church". And who is the Church? People are.
108. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn't this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?Really? I thought we agreed that God has no gender...
The only member of the Trinity with gender is Jesus. Keep in mind, though, that while many languages (French, Latin, Hebrew ;) ) have male and female pronouns and descriptors, I can't think of many lauguages with androgynous terms to match. There could also be poetic reasons for this...in masculinizing God, perhaps it made sense poetically to feminize the Holy Spirit. thus creating the male/female parallel that most humans recognize as being associated with procreativity.
109. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn't the other three gospels mention it? Why didn't the Roman soldiers get into trouble?I've heard this one before, too. Divine providence is one explanation. A much easier explanation: When Matthew heard such a rumor, he obviously knew that it wasn't true, so what else could it be but a conspiracy among the romans and jews?
Also, some of the earliest converts to Christianity were Roman soldiers...perhaps even a few who were "in the know" and felt bad about it?
110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?#1. Also, it's wrong, mature or not (rather, we believe it’s wrong). You can't apply Judaism to Christianity. They are different beliefs, even if they are born of the same origin. Know also that todays Judaism is not the Judaism of the Old Testament.
Apples and Oranges.
Salvation could be attained through ritual and dietary purity, prior to Jesus daeth and resurrection (i.e. through a convoluted set of rules outlined in books like Leviticus). Is this really more mature than the much simpler salvation of the New Testament?
111. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5? It means that I am born with the ability to sin, that I will sin in my lifetime (which is a certainty...done it more than once already ;) ).
112. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?I have no idea of the relevance of those verses, but:
Predestination as defined by Calvanism (or its modern equivalent) is wrong.
I believe God has a plan. You can be part of that plan, or you can choose not to. There's nothing more too it.
God gives us the choice. It's as simple as that. You can't have predestination if you have a choice. What the Psalm and other phrases refer to is human nature. We will do something, in our lifetimes, that deliberately causes hurt or grief to another person. That's certain. I've done it. You've done it. So what...there's something that can be done about it.
113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?Unhealthy? How? He's perfect? He is love! How is it unhealthy to be dependent on your creator, on love, etc.
We can be good people without God, but without God we cannot be cleansed from the stain of our inevitable sins. If that's cool with you, then you don't need God.
114. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the "offspring of David." Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn't this mean that Jesus wasn't the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?I've heard this one too...Not sure. One explanation is adoption into the line...
Joseph took the child Jesus as his own, as his firstborn. This was intended by God, that the Messiah be (at least legally, according to the familial laws of the day) the son of the house of David (and thus "of" the House of David).
115. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don't complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn't complain about what their maker (supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.God created us. We belong to him. He has the right to do whatever he wants with us, regardless of whether we like it or not. Be thankful he gives us the choice. Also, remember that you will receive your reward in heaven.
The question is flawed. God would not ask us to act in a manner that was sinful.
And again with the rabid literalism! "Sometimes an example is just an example". Sorry...couldn't resist the opportunity to paraphrase Nixon. ;) We are the clay pots, and God the potter, in the sense that it was God alone who fashioned us and gave us form, and God alone who can alter the form (in an intrinsic-to-our-nature way...not as in like losing an arm).
Also, while God may not tell us to sin, he may tell to do things that we don’t understand, such as giving up money, time, etc. This isn’t harmful at all. It’s all about perspective.
116. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.Satan. Why? No idea. Just is. Supposedly the letters of some king that concurred the Israelites add up to 666 in greek or Hebrew or something…Still, symbolism.
666 is, in Revelation, the number of the beast. Personally, it's just a number that comes between 665 and 667. It probably had more meaning to the Christians of the day, whose persecution Revelation is metaphoric for.
117. If your god is "just and merciful," why would he take Solomon's kingdom away from Solomon's son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon's son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).A promise God made to David, that Solomon would complete the temple, I think...help.
That's basically it...he did it because of his promise to David. And notice that again, God shows restraint. While much of the kingdom is taken, a part of it is left, to symbolize that God's quarrel is not with Solomon's son (whom God does not wish to ruin) but with Solomon.
118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.Because Solomon was granted one "wish" (used lightly) from God. Solomon chose wisdom. He was the wisest person. See again #3. Just because you're smart, it doesn't mean you don't screw up. Know also that he was the smartest human. God is still far wiser.
119. Don't you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book "Song of Solomon" is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to "drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate." The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the "spiced wine" represented menstrual blood).See my #22. I don't think there's anything anti-sex about Christianity, with the caveat that, as any other good thing - wine, song, cookies, Chinese food - there is such a thing as too much. Sex is great. Being a slut or man-whore not so much. Surely we all recognize this?
120. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the Ankh (or Crux Ansata), was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the Ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol-- a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).Actually, no it wasn't. The cross came from the Roman punishment of Crucifiction. Despite what some people think, Jesus wasn't the first, nor the last, person crucified. This is similar to what I said about Jesus' ideas not being original. Maybe not the first time it was used, but still thought up originally.
As far as I know, I don't use a cross as a symbol. I use a CRUCIFIX (i.e. the instrument of crucifixion). And I use that symbol because Jesus was crucified on one. Egypt? Pffft!
This too. A cross is not a crucifix. We just call it a cross because someone said, “Hey look, it’s a cross” a long time ago, and it stuck.
121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians? Because we recognize that you can have fun with sex? ;)
I couldn't guess. I'd ask for statistics...this sounds pretty hokey.
122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?#1. I don't justify it.
There is no difference, only the sinful form of pride.
123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?That's his whole reason for creating our universe. Wouldn't you like to be worshipped and exalted? I know I would. It’s not that he’s an egomaniac. He was lonely, so he made companions. He’s also just looking for the same kind of love that most parents look for from their children. That’s not asking too much, is it?
124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?Again, don't believe in original sin.
125. How do you explain the fact that the word "blood" occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn't this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?And love appears more than that, I think...
And, Jesus' blood is a good thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but blood is a symbol of life. That's a pretty good thing to include in the Bible ;)
126. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren't you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?Simply? Because God didn't tell me to.
Referencing Luke, what Jesus is saying to his disciples is to be prepared for the trying times to come. He speaks of swords, but notice how quick he is to bring action to a grinding halt when...14 verses later...one of his apostles uses one.
I've already explained what he was talking about in Matthew.
In Deut 13, the faithful are being called to resist those who would actively seek to draw them away from the faith. In Deut 20, war is inevitable, and God is telling the priests how to rally the soldiers and keep their minds on their God in the coming battles. Notice too that before ever instructing to bring wrath and ruin, God commands the soldiers to offer terms of peace.
I don't see anything in the indicated passage from Exodus that talks about this...those passages deal with the construction of altars (God is saying "keep it simple").
As for Numbers...it looks to me that those orders are given by Moses (famous hardass). About verse 25, God seems to step in and say "Okay, but here's how you're going to deal with what you capture" and puts Moses in his place.
127. Numbers 23:21 says that your god "has not seen wickedness in Israel." If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Was your god lying in the first instance, or in the others? Or was he just wrong?My translation says "trouble," not wickedness.
It says "trouble" in the NRSV as well. I think what this passage means is that while the Israelites have themselves been occasionally wicked, as a whole they are free from trouble, for God has remained with them.
128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?It wasn't an apple. It was the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Quite a lengthy title, yes, but true. First off, it was sin, and see #1. Secondly, until then, they had no idea that good and evil existed. That's a rather important discovery, no?
It's come to be called an apple because again, people need a point of reference.
"They ate of the fruit of..."
"What kind of fruit?"
"The fruit of the knowledge of good and evil!"
"Yes, but what kind of fruit was it?"
(repeat 50 times)
"Oh, fine...uh...an apple!"
129. What was it about humanity's torturing and killing of your god's only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him?That would be the "merciful" half.
130. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus? I don't think they're any different...it's a question of one being more detailed.
131. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)? The NRSV mentions that there are three translations of this name - Jeremiah, Zecariah, and Isaiah. This is an issue of translation only, and evidently one that has been addressed.
132. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament? In most Bibles, it is written that:

A shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots. (Isaiah 1:11). In the Hebrew idiom, this can also be read as: There shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse and a Nazarene shall grow from his root.
133. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?He did only ride one ass. And one colt. It never says that there wouldn't be anything else...just one ass. Do you think that Jesus would never ride a horse in his life?
How is is that Jesus rode two animals at once? The colt was the pack animal.
In other words, he didn’t ride the colt.
134. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?So what? Matthew was told it was a virgin, they were told a young woman...is there any reason why they can't both be true?
"Young" can mean many things, including "inexperienced". Nudge, wink, say no more, say no more! Besides, was Mary not also a young woman? And given the cultural context of the day, would not a young woman almost certainly be a virgin?
135. If Jesus could only have been born of a virgin, doesn't that place an unnecessarily high amount of virtue on virginity? Isn't that true that Judeo-Christian belief states that virgins are pure, and that non-virgins are not? Since the only way for a woman to remain pure is therefore to remain a virgin, doesn't purity therefore strike you as an unhealthy and unrealistic goal, and one which is therefore not necessarily desirable?Again, Pauls teachings about marriage.
Why virginity is so valued, and not solely among Christians I might point out - in most religious cultures, it is a valued status prior to marriage - is the unitive nature of sex. Sex is great. Sex is really great. Sex is so great that it's a complete giving of one's self to another, and a complete spiritual (and physical) joining between two people...and the sort of gift that we can only 100% genuinely give once.
We do not lose our sexual purity by ceasing to be a virgin, and this goes for men and women. We lose our purity when we are not responsible with the use of this great gift we can give truly only once.
136. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament? Were they not made subject to the Romans? Isn't being conquered a form of destruction? That's certainly what some are saying about the current situation in Iraq
137. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?First off, that Matthew says it is one example of them calling him that. Also, do you think that every minute of Jesus' life is writen down? I'm sure his mother called him that once or twice in that big gap of his childhood not written down.
There are many titles for Jesus, and many of them are similar. Yeshua, which means "God saves" is related to this...God is with us as God saves us
138. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in here, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.Not a one, including what you've mentioned. Despite many many...many...attempts to prove otherwise, I've never, never seen even one true inconsistency.
It's not the number of inconsistencies, but the topic. There are a few, probably errors of translation or transcription. Personally, the exact size of the Old Testament Hebrew army, or the number of baths of King David, aren't all that important to me in the "I am saved" sense of the word. ;)
I'm sure you could name several. Many would be actual inconsistencies. Many more (and I've seen the website too!) are nothing more than narrow-minded misinterpretations and out-of-context quotations.
I don’t consider minor inconsistencies. The message remains the same. Anything of any importance stays the same. Even then, I still haven’t heard any real inconsistency, minor or otherwise.
139. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. "sinning in your heart"; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?Wanting sin and contemplating sin are different things. You can't help wanting it. But, you can keep your mind from thinking the "what ifs" kinda think. Example: Jesus probably thought, "Yeah, bread would be nice...can't, though", as opposed to "Hmm...it would be easy...I can do it. I suppose I shouldn't though, after all, Satan is tempting me."
Pretty much. There is a pronounced difference between acknowledging that sin exists, as Jesus does when he parlays with ol' Lucy, and formally contemplating it, planning to make it transpire.
also, the verse about thinking lustfully being a sin. It's the same as the diference between aknowledging that a woman has beauty and thinking about what the sex would be like.
140. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?My sect never says either. I personally believe he can.
Since we treat the Gospels as historical documents...that's all the proof we really need. However, many famou Catholic theologians have come up with metaphysical proofs of God.
141. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument, assuming that I mean the academic definition of criticize. The proof of Thomas Aquinas:
Summa Theologia
Article II. Whether the existence of God is demonstrable:
Let us proceed to the second point. It is objected (1) that the existence of God is not demonstratable: that God's existence is an article of faith, and that articles of faith are not demonstratable, because the office of demonstration is to prove, but faith pertains (only) to things that are not to be proven, as is evident from the Epistle to the Hebrews, 11. Hence that God's existence is not demonstratable. Again, (2) that the subject matter of demonstration is that something exists, but in the case of God we cannot know what exists, but only what does not, as Damascenus says (Of the Orthodox Faith, I., 4.) Hence that we cannot demonstrate God's existence. Again, (3) that if God's existence is to be proved it must be from what He causes, and that what He effects is not sufficient for His supposed nature, since He is infinite, but the effects finite, and the finite is not proportional to the infinite. Since, therefore, a cause cannot be proved through an effect not proportional to itself, it is said that God's exisence cannot be proved.
But against this argument the apostle says (Rom. I., 20), "The unseen things of God are visible through His manifest works." But this would not be so unless it were possible to demonstrate God's existence through His works. What ought to be understood concerning anything, is first of all, whether it exists. Conclusion. It is possible to demonstrate God's existence, atthough not a priori (by pure reason), yet a posteriori from some work of His more surely known to us.
In answer I must say that the proof is double. One is through the nature of a cause and is called propter quid: this is through the nature of preceding events sirnply. The other is through the nature of the effect, and is called quia, and is through the nature of preceding things as respects us. Since the effect is better known to us than the cause, we proceed from the effect to the knowledge of the cause. From any effect whatsoever it can be proved that a corresponding cause exists, if only the effects of it are sufficiently known to us, for since effects depend on causes, the effect being given, it is necessary that a preceding cause exists. Whence, that God exists, although this is not itself known to us, is provable through effects that are known to us.
To the first objection above, I reply, therefore, that God's existence, and those other things of this nature that can be known through natural reason concerning God, as is said in Rom. I., are not articles of faith, but preambles to these articles. So faith presupposes natural knowledge, so grace nature, and perfection a perfectible thing. Nothing prevents a thing that is in itself demonstratable and knowable, from being accepted as an article of faith by someone that does not accept the proof of it.
To the second objection, I reply that, since the cause is proven from the effect, one must use the effect in the place of a definition of the cause in demonstrating that the cause exists; and that this applies especially in the case of God, because for proving that anything exists, it is necessary to accept in this method what the name signifies, not however that anything exists, because the question what it is is secondary to the question whether it exists at all. The characteristics of God are drawn from His works as shall be shown hereafter, (Question XIII). Whence by proving that God exists through His works as shall be shown hereafter, (Question XIII). Whence by proving that God exists through His works, we are able by this very method to see what the name God signifies.
To the third objection, I reply that, although a perfect knowledge of the cause cannot be had from inadequate effects, yet that from any effect manifest to us it can be shown that a cause does exist, as has been said. And thus from the works of God His existence can be proved, although we cannot in this way know Him perfectly in accordance with His own essence.
Article III. Whether God exists.
Let us proceed to the third article. It is objected (1) that God does not exist, because if one of two contradictory things is infinite, the other will be totally destroyed; that it is implied in the name God that there is a certain infinite goodness: if then God existed, no evil would be found. But evil is found in the world; therefore it is objected that God does not exist. Again, that what can be accomplished through a less number of principles will not be accomplished through more. It is objected that all things that appear on the earth can be accounted for through other principles, without supposing that God exists, since what is natural can be traced to a natural principle, and what proceeds from a proposition can be traced to the human reason or will. Therefore that there is no necessity to suppose that God exists. But as against this note what is said of the person of God (Exod. III., 14) I am that I am. Conclusion. There must be found in the nature of things one first immovable Being, a primary cause, necessarily existing, not created; existing the most widely, good, even the best possible; the first ruler through the intellect, and the ultimate end of all things, which is God.
I answer that it can be proved in five ways that God exists.
The first and plainest is the method that proceeds from the point of view of motion. It is certain and in accord with experience, that things on earth undergo change. Now, everything that is moved is moved by something; nothing, indeed, is changed, except it is changed to something which it is in potentiality. Moreover, anything moves in accordance with something actually existing; change itself, is nothing else than to bring forth something from potentiality into actuality. Now, nothing can be brought from potentiality to actual existence except through something actually existing: thus heat in action, as fire, makes fire-wood, which is hot in potentiality, to be hot actually, and through this process, changes itself. The same thing cannot at the same time be actually and potentially the same thing, but only in regard to different things. What is actually hot cannot be at the same time potentially hot, but it is possible for it at the same time to be potentially cold. It is impossible, then, that anything should be both mover and the thing moved, in regard to the same thing and in the same way, or that it should move itself. Everything, therefore, is moved by something else. If, then, that by which it is moved, is also moved, this must be moved by something still different, and this, again, by something else. But this process cannot go on to infinity because there would not be any first mover, nor, because of this fact, anything else in motion, as the succeeding things would not move except because of what is moved by the first mover, just as a stick is not moved except through what is moved from the hand. Therefore it is necessary to go back to some first mover, which is itself moved by nothing---and this all men know as God.

Essentially, what is being argued here is that all systems must necssarily be set in motion - no system can start spontaneously. This includes the Earth. Of course, Aquinas realizes that natural events could have created the Earth (the forming of the Solar System as swirling disks of gaseous matter). But that in itself is also a system and must have had some trigger. This begins a series of systems that ultimately traces back to the Big Bang (or whatever) and the birth of the Universe, which is also a system that must have been set in motion.

It could be argued that the Big Bang could have happened without the influence of a being such as God...a random event such as a quantum singularity could have been to blame.

However, this is inconsistent with a major tenet of physics - matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore, regardless of the theory (Big Bang, String, Quantum) the Universe was not subject to its own physical laws at time of creation, and necessarily violated those laws in those opening moments. This is mathematically unprovable, or seems to be, and is as much a leap of faith as saying that God was responsible.

Aquinas addresses this.
The second proof is from the nature of the efficient cause. We find in our experience that there is a chain of causes: nor is it found possible for anything to be the efficient cause of itself, since it would have to exist before itself, which is impossible. Nor in the case of efficient causes can the chain go back indefinitely, because in all chains of efficient causes, the first is the cause of the middle, and these of the last, whether they be one or many. If the cause is removed, the effect is removed. Hence if there is not a first cause, there will not be a last, nor a middle. But if the chain were to go back infinitely, there would be no first cause, and thus no ultimate effect, nor middle causes, which is admittedly false. Hence we must presuppose some first efficient cause---which all call God.

All nature is presupposed on cause-and-effect...each effect must have a cause. Aquinas here is remarking that all creation is a series of effects, each of which must be accounted for by a cause. But he takes it one step further. He argues that the Big Bang, or the moment of the Universe's birth, it also an effect of some cause (but what cause?)

Again, we can point to the other theories out there (Big Bang, String, Quantum) and say that there are valid causitive factors inherent in each theory...except that necessarily, these causes would had to have happened prior to the effect.

Which is scientifically nothing more than a leap of faith. There is no concept of time preceeding the creation of the Universe, the reference point from which all time is measured and has meaning. So it is likely impossible to scientifically demonstrate these causes, with the key unit that is time rendered invalid. Still, the argument can be made that other causes than God exist.

Moving along...
The third proof is taken from the natures of the merely possible and necessary. We find that certain things either may or may not exist, since they are found to come into being and be destroyed, and in consequence potentially, either existent or non-existent. But it is impossible for all things that are of this character to exist eternally, because what may not exist, at length will not. If, then, all things were merely possible (mere accidents), eventually nothing among things would exist. If this is true, even now there would be nothing, because what does not exist, does not take its beginning except through something that does exist. If then nothing existed, it would be impossible for anything to begin, and there would now be nothing existing, which is admittedly false. Hence not all things are mere accidents, but there must be one necessarily existing being. Now every necessary thing either has a cause of its necessary existence, or has not. In the case of necessary things that have a cause for their necessary existence, the chain of causes cannot go back infinitely, just as not in the case of efficient causes, as proved. Hence there must be presupposed something necessarily existing through its own nature, not having a cause elsewhere but being itself the cause of the necessary existence of other things---which all call God.

Here, it is argued that nothing can persist in its existence should it come about by a series of accidents, which are by nature temporary events that cease to exist as events mere moments after their occurrence. The argument is that something eternal must exist to sustain what comes about, even that which comes about apparently by accident, because the lack of some eternal "anchor point" would otherwise render existence as temporary and fleeting as that of a momentary accident.

It is relatively easy to call this hogwash. A coffee spill is an accident, we can argue, and if left uncleaned will persist for a great time. Breaking an arm is an accident, and the effects can linger for weeks, months, or for the rest of our lives.

But these are not counterpoints at all. A coffee spill will not persist forever, even if left uncleaned. It will evaporate, and the stain will fade. A broken arm will heal, and even if we carry a scar from a compound fracture to our grave, once we are dead the accident and its lingering effects will be gone. There is no permanence, and no accident lasts one iota of time longer than that which caused it.
The fourth proof arises from the degrees that are found in things. For there is found a greater and a less degree of goodness, truth, nobility, and the like. But more or less are terms spoken of various things as they approach in diverse ways toward something that is the greatest, just as in the case of hotter (more hot) which approaches nearer the greatest heat. There exists therefore something that is the truest, and best, and most noble, and in consequence, the greatest being. For what are the greatest truths are the greatest beings, as is said in the Metaphysics Bk. II. 2. What moreover is the greatest in its way, in another way is the cause of all things of its own kind (or genus); thus fire, which is the greatest heat, is the cause of all heat, as is said in the same book (cf. Plato and Aristotle). Therefore there exists something that is the cause of the existence of all things and of the goodness and of every perfection whatsoever---and this we call God.

Aquinas is arguing in degrees here. He is saying that as the sun is hotter than a candle, so there are things that are more true and less true, more good and less good. And as there is an absolute limit to temperature so too there is an absolute truth. But since all things in this world are temporary and die, they are not posessed of this absolute...yet it must exist.

It could be argued that there is no absolute temperature. Most scientists will tell you this, and in a certain sense it is true. Even though there are temperatures that will make atoms and subatomic particles fly apart, adding yet more energy to the system will make things fly apart all the faster, and this appears to have no limit.

But there is a limit (temperature being limited in the upper end by the limitation of available energy in the Universe). Since the Universe is finite, so too there is a finite maximum temperature that is attainable, when ALL EXISTANT ENERGY (a finite quantity) has been fed into a system.
The fifth proof arises from the ordering of things for we see that some things which lack reason, such as natural bodies, are operated in accordance with a plan. It appears from this that they are operated always or the more frequently in this same way the closer they follow what is the Highest; whence it is clear that they do not arrive at the result by chance but because of a purpose. The things, moreover, that do not have intelligence do not tend toward a result unless directed by some one knowing and intelligent; just as an arrow is sent by an archer. Therefore there is something intelligent by which all natural things are arranged in accordance with a plan---and this we call God.

Here is is being argued that, essentially, all that is about us could not have arisen randomly. The system is too efficient, the level of sophistication too complex to have arisen without design.

This argument is easiest refuted by simply gainsaying it. Yes, it is possible that all these things arose by accident.

But mathematically, that's absurd. Even assuming 50/50 probability on the outcome of any event, even assuming 90% probability on the outcome of any one event, the sheer number of events that would be required to happen in proper sequence would cause a 10-digit scientific calculator to default its result to zero when multiplied together.
In response to the first objection, then, I reply what Augustine says; that since God is entirely good, He would permit evil to exist in His works only if He were so good and omnipotent that He might bring forth good even from the evil. It therefore pertains to the infinite goodness of God that he permits evil to exist and from this brings forth good.
My reply to the second objection is that since nature is ordered in accordance with some defined purpose by the direction of some superior agent, those things that spring from nature must be dependent upon God, just as upon a first cause. Likewise, what springs from a proposition must be traceable to some higher cause which is not the human reason or will, because this is changeable and defective and everything changeable and liable to non-existence is dependent upon some unchangeable first principle that is necessarily self-existent as has been shown.

142. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument, once again assuming I mean the academic definition of the word criticize."There is no proof of God, therefore he can't exist"
Love this one because no one ever really thinks about it before they say it.
First off, there is proof, though most people don't think it's concrete.
Secondly, there's very very VERY little proof for Big Bang.
Lastly, absence of proof is not proof of absence.
In my experience, any argument made against the existence of God that at any point relies on a lack of empirical evidence to prove its point is inherently flawed...how can you use the physical to prove the metaphysical, the spiritual? It is absurd. For example:
The proof that there is no god:


The assumptions of god:

1. It has a personality or consciousness.
2. It is all-powerful and all knowing.
3. It controls all reality including the laws of matter or nature.
4. It has always existed.

Assumption 1 and 2 are critical in the proof that there is no god. In order to have consciousness and be all knowing requires a fundamental ability called memory. God must have some means to store information. Memory is a very definitive attribute; memory is the ability to sense information. In order to do that some state of something that functions as memory changes so as when acted on information can be determined. There is no other definition of memory and in fact the concept of memory is like the concept of a circle. The definition of a circle is all points along the arc are equaly distant from a common center. The circumference of the circle divided by it's diameter is always equal to pi. No matter how big or small the circle, no matter what type of universe you may find yourself in, the character of a circle remains.

Given that god must have memory and that part of god is a component of god which it did not create since god was not created and that component of god is governed by processes that abide by the definition of memory, then god is subject to elements that are governed by their nature and not the will of god! God ends up being a product of components one of which is memory.
This is actually the first flaw.
Flaw #1: attempting to attach emprical attributes to the supernatural-in-nature. While it is relatively certain that God is in fact posessed of "a" memory, the manner of its storage is not emprically quantifiable. A poor example is a computer...there are two main methods of data storage in a computer: hard drives and RAM (we'll ignore disks and CDs this time around). As the RAM is external to the hard drive, so is what could be termed "Godly memory" outside the realm of normal "memory". As I said, this is a poor example, because RAM can also be quantified empirically. Regardless, the whole concept of God is that God exists above and beyond the empirically observable and quantifiable, and therein lies the first error - the merely empirical is insufficient to describe God, or any "component" thereof, accurately or completely.
Flaw #1.5: the assumption that certain components of God are not in fact eternal, or capable of so being. To use the poor example of a computer again, consider a newly manufactured computer. The "memory" of the computer, its hard drive and RAM, are totally blank. Does this mean the computer has no memory? No, of course not. Considering the completed computer as unit whole as one entity, this entity that is the computer has always had memory, even if there is no content to it at the outset.
To summarize: while God has memory, yes, it is not possible to accurately describe this part of God, or any part of God, in purely empirical terms, or subject it to purely empirical analysis. Additionally, memory can in fact exist at all times in an entity under certain circumstances. As God is eternal, so too can individual components of God be eternal...including memory.


This analysis from assumption 1 and 2 is an unavoidable conclusion, god is subject to the physics of the elements that it is composed of that are the governing processes of it's components. This truth disproves assumption 3 which states that god controls all reality including nature, since it's components govern how god operates on information and therefore is a form of nature that god does not control but is being controlled by.

Flaw #2: attempting to subject God to physics. Physics is an empirical ruleset, affecting only the physical universe and subject to it. The functioning of the Universe is governed by the laws of physics, but the nature and boundaries of the Universe define what those physical laws are...physics is a subset of the Universe. And assuming 1, 2, and 3, then the Universe is a subset of God. The physical laws do not therefore bind or control God, and God is not subject to them. God is the one in control of the physical laws, and they are subject to God's whim.

Since god is controlled by elements that it is composed of it is not all-powerful and would suffer from problems of the uncertainty principle, which are based on whatever contraints of its nature, making it not all knowing!

Because god is composed of components and is therefore a subject of nature, it must devise methods to avoid destruction or entropy, so it must repair itself and must replenish energy.

Finally the elements god is made of had to exist first before they could compose into god, therefore god did not always exist.
The rest of the argument falls apart from here. In the erroneous assumption that God is necessarily limited by the physical confines, and subject to the physical laws, of the Universe, it mistakenly is able to say that God is not eternal, that there is a limit to God's power, and that there is a limit to God's knowledge.
But since God is not in fact so limited, and is in fact the one who controls the supposed "limiting factors", all these conclusions are necessarily invalid.

If you prove that a being created life on earth you still haven't proved that the being is a god. It's not that there is no evidence of a god, the concept of god is a nonsensical notion based on naive assumptions. [!:)]

143. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.Follow it unless it's against God. Rather, tolerate it unless it forces you to go against God.
On that note, you should also do everything in your power to make the gov't be with God.
Jesus said it best: "Render unto Caesar..."
144. What is your definition of the word Christian?Someone who believes the following.
Jesus is God's son.
Jesus died.
Jesus rose again.
And freed us from the bonds of sin
145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?Again, 85%? No.
Also, define crime. The greeks probably did everything we do, they just didn't call it a crime. Yeah, there were fewer "crimes" but just because it's legal it doesn't make it right.
Also, you'll notice that our society today again has a much more liberal sexual morality coming into play...and sex crimes are still prevalent.
146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?Yes. But, the Bible says Jesus/God won't let that happen. So, either you haven't turned completely away from God, only fallen (see #1), or you were never truely saved to begin with.
Even in accepting Jesus, we may not be saved...we are totally able to turn away and fall into sin again, as sure as it is difficult to beat any addiction. But the person can turn back to Jesus and find welcome, and so be saved again.
I see a difference in turning away and falling. I think that God will not allow us to turn completely away (the verse about God never giving us to Satan once we're his), but we fall all the time. Like I said, if something like that happens, you need to stop and think about whether you were truely saved or not. Mr. Aiera believes that you can still go to hell as a Christian, I do not.
147. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects say that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?See the verse about Jesus being the way the truth and the light.
I think I covered this in response to the assertion that God was trying to "entrap" us.
having seen a completely different thread addressing this specifically: Faith saves, work proves your faith. You must have faith, you should have works.
Interesting thought...what are sins? Sins are evil works we do on Earth. So works do directly affect our salvation.

Again, uber-shoutout for Aiera, for giving of his time to help me out with this.

Sorry I can't really answer those questions, because I don't believe in Christianity (although I was baptised a Protestant) The actual religion I believe in is Eclectic Paganism.

My friend recently went to a Christian camp with her neighbor and she came home crying. They told her she was going to hell just because she was a Catholic... :mad: I have nothing against anyone of any religion but I think that's kind of extreme.

My friend recently went to a Christian camp with her neighbor and she came home crying. They told her she was going to hell just because she was a Catholic... :mad: I have nothing against anyone of any religion but I think that's kind of extreme.

That is extreme, and it's sad that things like this happen. It completely destroys the work we do towards a good image.

I completely agree. It completely turned her off religion, and now she wants to be an Atheist. I may not have the same religion as many people, and Paganism may have loose beliefs, but I know how important it can be to have something to believe in. I also hate when people try to "save my soul" or condemn me for my beliefs. A girl on this other board did, and I politely said I was happy in my own beliefs. She went into this rampage about how no one can be truly happy until they find Jesus... I respect others beliefs, and I just hate when others try to push their's on me.

Each of your 147 questions has a reasonable answer, but I would suggest breaking your post down into pieces so that you don't get an essay in response. I frankly got bored sometime around #15 and don't feel like writing a book in response, particularly when someone already has;
Mere Christianity (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060652926/qid=1091903487/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-6428784-4684620?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
. Don't be afraid to read it, unless you are afraid of having your questions answered.

If you are serious about getting these questions answered then I would suggest you read the book I linked - It is less than $9. Afterwords post your questions, maybe in groups of five to ten, and we can have a good conversation.


To be honest, I wouldn't bother with "Mere Christianity". It won't give you any serious answers to any of the question you ask. It is, infortunately, little more than an extended 'advertisement', which relies (I felt) on the basic assumption that a) God exists and b) The bible is ALL true in order to make it's points. If you question either of the above assumptions, or want an answer that doesn't RELY on those two assumptions - this is probably not the book for you.

Would you mind if I asked a queston? Why does Christianity only believe in a male god, unlike Pagan religions who's Deity has to parts. God and Goddess. Doesn't it take both a man and a woman to create life?

has it ever occured to you people that most of us would willingly change our minds if you could actually answer these questions and defend your views?
Only the Holy Spirit can change ones mind, not me, not you. Much of Christianity is built on faith, without that faith there can be no salvation.

P.S. Salvation is not about believing what I or anyone else says, it's about an earnest desire to turn from your ways and follow Christ.

Why do all of these questions need to be answered? Can't someone just believe in sometime more powerful and beyond themselves? The Bible is not meant to be a history book full of facts, it is a book full of stories and miracles that only mean something if you have faith

Would you mind if I asked a queston? Why does Christianity only believe in a male god, unlike Pagan religions who's Deity has to parts. God and Goddess. Doesn't it take both a man and a woman to create life?

God never specifically speaks of his own gender however he sent his Son in male form and also is always referred to as Father by his followers. A God with 2 genders is hard to wrap our minds around, but personally I don't believe God has a gender. There is no real reason for him to have a gender.

If you still can not wrap your mind around a single all powerful God creating everything then can you believe that the church is God's bride? The church being everyone that accepts him. So God + the Church = life (in every sense) in the Christian faith.

wow, 147 questions. i will tell you that it took my theology teacher about a year to answer all of these questions. dont think that just because you dont get a response the answers dont exist. 147.....i could probably answer 130 of those off the top of my head but it would take hours to explain them all, hours which im not about to spend doing because at the end of which you could jsut be like...oh, i dont beleive that...and i got screwed out of hours of my life ill never get back. these questions have all been answered by theologians liek thomas aquainas throughout the centuries. the Church doesnt expect you to know every answer so therefore they expect that youll believe on faith alone. and if you really want to learn about Chritianity and you are as curious as you say you are take some college coarses on theology or christianity. i will tell you that after my theology coarase, which was on christianity, my faith has actually increased and most of my questions were answered.

i will answer one questin for you becaue if 146 other ppl answered one question wed be done in no time....

128. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?

you must remember that the story of adam and eve is jsut symbolism, and should not be taken at face value. the story is more about the fact that God created man in the very begining. as for the forbidden fruit, God told adam directly that they should not eat from it else they be punished. that is free will which God gave humanity and adam and eve disobeyed God of their own will and accepted the known punishment. adn there is nothing bad about eating of the fruit, it isjsut that God told them directly not to do it, but they did it anyways. it applies to today too. we can eat of the fruit(sin) but accept that we will be punishedfor our actions. or we can refuse the fruit(sin) and be saved from that punishment. its very complicated and would take longer to explain in depth, but i hope that helps.

And there are certain places (right now I live in one of them), where they would practically burn you at the stake for even DARING to say that the fruit might be symbolic. There are a number (I don't know if it's a large number, or just a loud number) of people who implicitly believe every word - even in Genesis.

Back to the point you made - this has already been argued elsewhere, but they wouldn't know they were doing wrong until AFTER they had eaten the fruit of knowledge - so they used their free-choice to pick one of two options, for which they could not understand that there was a moral dilemma.
And you can say that God had told them not to do it - but without the knowledge of good and evil, why would they have known it was 'wrong' to disobey god?

Pretty weird situation for a benevolent god to create a 'test' stacked SO heavily against the participants... and then he gets all *miffed* when they louse up, and gives them a consolation-prize of exile AND death. Nice.

God never specifically speaks of his own gender however he sent his Son in male form and also is always referred to as Father by his followers. A God with 2 genders is hard to wrap our minds around, but personally I don't believe God has a gender. There is no real reason for him to have a gender.

I thought the bible was supposed to be the divinely inspired word of god? So - if the words are in it, he must have approved, right?

Hmmm..... oh wait... Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

(Of course, creating male AND female in his own image gives us some kind of bi-sex god. Or maybe he just dresses that way...)


If you still can not wrap your mind around a single all powerful God creating everything then can you believe that the church is God's bride? The church being everyone that accepts him. So God + the Church = life (in every sense) in the Christian faith.

I love it! There was me thinking that, according to christians, marriage was the sacred bond between ONE man and ONE woman... and it turns out it's actually a party game played by a big spook and 2 billion christians. I'm seriously the only person who thinks it's strange that 'god' will 'marry' the 'church'?

I think it's pretty clear that God is, IF He has a body, a male.

I also believe He is black, but that's based on a personal concoction of scientific and historical discoveries, and a few Biblical tidbits.

don't understand how people can believe that a book, a veritilbe hoot of a yarn is actually the truth.....makes me shudder. and yes i read it once, biggest pile of **** i've ever had the misfortune to waste my time reading...thank you!

I want to state that I am not positive that I do believe in God, and that questioning ones faith is a good healthy excerise. I do however feel that at times people can be too anti-christian and often attack Christianity becuase it is chic to do so. Alot of these questions are good interesting ones, however other ones are blantaly anti-christain and are of the virulent atheist type. I do not understand why people are so anti-christain and i wish some one would respond to that.


44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

As a good person in general you want your friends to have salvation, so as a Christain the only way one can believe your friends will obtain salvation is through the acceptance of Christ as your savior. This is not pushing thei is merely enlightening.

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

Becuase it is to worshiping the Devil. In the Commandements, God states that
no one can worship false idols or other gods. Pagans worship other idols and Gods, and the Devil as the symbol for the absence of God is mroe or less an idol or another false god.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

They are damned to hell simply because thye do nto accept God.

58. Where is Heaven?

Heaven is where God is.

59. Where is Hell?

In yourself, once one realizes they have not accepted God,wiht all that God has given us.

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

They do not have free will or the ablity and intelligence to accept God.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

Do they really prosper if they commit evil acts and do not follow God?

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

Infants are not sinless if one believes in orginal sin, plus God's plan cannot be totally understood so at times it might seem unjust but it always has a point.

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

One has to aim for perfection it does not mean we will ever attain it.

92. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer.

Where does the big bang rule out the theory that God created the universe?

93. If your god is omnipresent, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent? If he is not truly omnipresent, then how can he be omnipotent?

Gio still sees the absence, the absence is man's choice that God gave him.

95. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then how could he possibly have as many followers as most Christians seem to think he has?

Lucifier is simply the symbol for the absence of God.

102. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. With that in mind, name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.

You are missing the point completely. Jesus dies for you whetehr you lie it or not. He gave his life so that your sins could be forgiven. He does nto ahve to do anythign else for you, he did everythign eh could to save your soul.

103. Before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned, but not asked; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god impregnated her; this strongly suggests that he didn't want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god?
Do you think rape is wrong? Justify your answer.

Once again you cannot put the Lord on man's level. He is above mankind, and therefore did not rape Mary. This is a ridiculous statement.

106. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?

God is above human affairs.

107. If man's relation to animals is similar to god's relation to man, was god's impregnation of Mary therefore technically similar to bestiality?

I do not believe equating the Lord with animals is correct.

110. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn't this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn't Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?

It is a realistic view of people, since once again people are inherently flawed.

113. Don't you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?

No there is nothing unnatrual if you are a Christian to be dependent upon God. If you follow his belief system then you are dependent upon him and his judgement also for your salvation.

118. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I'd do what he said.

It reinforces the fact that all humans are inherently flawed, that even the wisest have faults.

121. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?

Another false statement with no evidence to support it. Please stick to questions that are not meant to merely be inflamatory.

122. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?

There are major differences between Catholics and Protestants in theri beliefs though none are justified to commit violence upon the other.
Their hatred for each other comes on a more perosnal level, becuase of the years of hatred the British and the Irish have for each other.

123. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?

God is simply looking for everyone to ahve an ideal life. If one does not folllow God and adhere to his principles , then one cannot properly enjoy the universe that God created.

124. If each soul is created anew by god at conception, and is *not* transmitted by the semen, then how is Original Sin transmitted? Why is god deliberately creating sinful souls?

Everyone is born with orginal sin becuase everyone is flawed. Everyone agrees that no one is perfect upon birth. God is not creating sinful souls instead he is giving the gift of allowing one to choose if he will follow God or not. God gives us freedom and free will by giving us imperfections.


145. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?

This question has nothing to do with Christianity and is just another feeble attempt to bash Christians.

146. If someone accepts Jesus, and is "saved," but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?

He did not actually accept Jesus if he ended up turning away.

I honestly am confused by you people. You guys wanted an answer to all 147 questions, so someone wrote it for you. Noone said one **** about it from then on. So get back on topic!!

Keruvalia,
You asked the questions, and even said that you will be a Christian if they are answered (at least I think it was you.) Well your answer is right here!

Just incase you guys dont know where the answers are (which I highly doubt -_-), its on page 12, posts 1,2,3,4,and I think 5 also.

I just wanted to get that out, because I am honestly interested in what you guys think about those answers. Especially Keruvaila.

I thought the bible was supposed to be the divinely inspired word of god? So - if the words are in it, he must have approved, right?

Hmmm..... oh wait... Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

(Of course, creating male AND female in his own image gives us some kind of bi-sex god. Or maybe he just dresses that way...)

Or, he could be humanoid, and just slapped a penis or breasts on to us for kicks.

BTW, any questions on anything I posted, AIM: insane3rhyno

I thought the bible was supposed to be the divinely inspired word of god? So - if the words are in it, he must have approved, right?

Hmmm..... oh wait... Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

(Of course, creating male AND female in his own image gives us some kind of bi-sex god. Or maybe he just dresses that way...)
Correct, throughout scripture he is referred to as a male. God is also emphatically described as the Spirit in the Bible. Spirits have no need for gender nor does the Bible say that they have gender. Now for our own sake we call God the father. But to place human gender on God is limiting him.

I love it! There was me thinking that, according to christians, marriage was the sacred bond between ONE man and ONE woman... and it turns out it's actually a party game played by a big spook and 2 billion christians. I'm seriously the only person who thinks it's strange that 'god' will 'marry' the 'church'?

Red herring.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

I am not a Christian, nor have I read the Bible, but I've seen this question asked before and I saw quite a convincing answer given, so I'll repeat what I heard:

God put the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil into the Garden of Eden while telling Adam and Eve not to eat from it, in effect, as a test. This may seem unfair, but think about it. God had to give humans the opportunity to reject his command, or their allegiance would have been meaningless.

Correct, throughout scripture he is referred to as a male. God is also emphatically described as the Spirit in the Bible. Spirits have no need for gender nor does the Bible say that they have gender. Now for our own sake we call God the father. But to place human gender on God is limiting him.

actually, in genesis, elohim is masculine and plural. originally, they were gods.

It took a while, but here it is. My answers are pretty short, I was trying to save time. My friend took some his valuable time to read and respond, so a shout-out for him. His goes into the details more. Oh, and he’s a hell of a lot smarter than me :P

*Handshakes all around* I liked your post a lot. Thanks, Rhyno, thanks AIERA.

While I might have slightly different views (see my posts), I'm continually amazed at how even though Christians have different denominations, we have more in common than different.

I am not a Christian, nor have I read the Bible, but I've seen this question asked before and I saw quite a convincing answer given, so I'll repeat what I heard:

God put the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil into the Garden of Eden while telling Adam and Eve not to eat from it, in effect, as a test. This may seem unfair, but think about it. God had to give humans the opportunity to reject his command, or their allegiance would have been meaningless.
You have managed to understand what far too many Christians don't even understand. Cheers!


About the gender thing: God the Father, like most things in the Bible, is symbolic. You have to understand the culture that the Bible was originally written for: the woman gave birth, yes, but it was the male who provided everything for the family.
God himself does not have a penis, breats, vagina, etc. We say "He" simply because of a tradition. Why that tradition? People are stupid. It's far easier to get people to accept a God if they understand it. A genderless being is a hard concept, especially in those days.
Now, why "he" instead of she? Not a clue. Jesus was a he, so that may be it. Why Jesus was a he and not a she? Again, symbolism. Women did not go into war. Women were not known for being great leaders. You may think that's sexist, but that's not anyone's fault. It just was that way.
Finally, there is a symbolic marriage between the Jesus and the church, which is often refered to as "she."
All of that being said, this all comes down to faith. If you don't believe the Bible, than this whole arguement is moot. If you do: the Bible says "he," you believe the Bible is right, so just go with it. We don't always know God's plan.

*Handshakes all around* I liked your post a lot. Thanks, Rhyno, thanks AIERA.

While I might have slightly different views (see my posts), I'm continually amazed at how even though Christians have different denominations, we have more in common than different.

Thanks much! Aiera was a great help, I cannot thank him enough.

Dude,

That's 147 freaking questions! Are you out of your mind? How long did you work on this? Do you really expect anyone to sit down and answer all these? I think the response would have to be one of biblical proportions all by itself. I recommend you actually speak to a Minister, Preacher, Reverend, Priest, Nun or even an Altar Boy. My guess is, you haven't ever done that. If you happen to be in an area where you don't have access to a man of the cloth (maybe you're snowed under somewhere up in the Arctic) then I suggest you actually read the Bible from cover to cover, Old and New Testaments. There are several versions that are written in a non-obtuse style that you might actually enjoy. Treat it like a summer novel, a fun read. My guess is, many of your questions will actually be answered. And the nice thing about the Book is, it doesn't argue or condescend or patronize you for your opinion or lack of one. A post like that is likely to earn you all sorts of hard-headed replies that really won;t help if you actually want answers. By the way, some of those questions have puzzled scholars and wise men for about 2000 years and you're not likely to get an answer in this lifetime.

At any rate, good luck in your quest for edification. I'm with you, man. Goodonya for the post.

Always,
Katanja

actually, in genesis, elohim is masculine and plural. originally, they were gods.

"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Elohim E*lo"him (-e*l=o"hi^m), n. Heb.
One of the principal names by which God is designated in the
Hebrew Scriptures.
1913 Webster

You know, reading through this, it leaves my head spinning, all this technicality... I always thought that Christianity was a religion. A religion that was founded by Gods son. A religion where you were taught to love your neighbour and turn the other cheek. A religion where you express tolerance to other religions, but also convince them that christianity is right. A religion where you can feel loved and cherished by someone, that being god. It is because he loves us, that we live as we do today. He does not rule over us like a cruel dictator, he gives us the choice. To lie or tell the truth, to abuse or not to abuse and even to turn away from him. Whether he exists or not, he has moved people to do great things, Martin Luther King springs to mind. God loves you for who you are, not what you do. You may say the old and New testaments are contradictory, that is true, I think that the New Testament shows the true christian religion, whereas the Old is also Jewish, and also, I think Muslim too.
(Although I call God a He, that doesn't mean I think he's a man, I just did)

You know, reading through this, it leaves my head spinning, all this technicality... I always thought that Christianity was a religion. A religion that was founded by Gods son. A religion where you were taught to love your neighbour and turn the other cheek. A religion where you express tolerance to other religions, but also convince them that christianity is right. A religion where you can feel loved and cherished by someone, that being god. It is because he loves us, that we live as we do today. He does not rule over us like a cruel dictator, he gives us the choice. To lie or tell the truth, to abuse or not to abuse and even to turn away from him. Whether he exists or not, he has moved people to do great things, Martin Luther King springs to mind. God loves you for who you are, not what you do. You may say the old and New testaments are contradictory, that is true, I think that the New Testament shows the true christian religion, whereas the Old is also Jewish, and also, I think Muslim too.
(Although I call God a He, that doesn't mean I think he's a man, I just did)

This is not an attack, because I liked your post. However, you were talking about "a religion that was founded by Gods son...a religion where you express tolerance to other religions...a religion where you can feel loved..." and I was wondering where the crucifixion or resurrection fit in.

a lot of questions eh...God's Son had to die to take all of our sins away..they were all put on Him..and as for everyone goign to Hell before he died and rose again..they got saved the same way we did, but they looked forward to the cross and believe that His Son would die..and rise again, which is a very important part of salvation..we, on the other hand, look back and remember whta Jesus did for us and the sacrifice He made...so ya im only answering the first 2 right now, im running out of time..c ya

That's 147 freaking questions!

The original list - before I chopped it up - was 392 questions.

Are you out of your mind?

Possibly. A sure sign of insanity is asking questions.

How long did you work on this?

20 years.

Do you really expect anyone to sit down and answer all these?

No.

I recommend you actually speak to a Minister, Preacher, Reverend, Priest, Nun or even an Altar Boy.

I find I get more honesty out of practitioners of Christianity, rather than the person who wants my money and a couple hours of my life every Sunday in order to answer questions.

I suggest you actually read the Bible from cover to cover, Old and New Testaments.

Already did that ... how do you think I came up with the questions?

You asked the questions, and even said that you will be a Christian if they are answered

No, I never said that.

I just wanted to get that out, because I am honestly interested in what you guys think about those answers.

I'll have to get back to the group on that one. I'm in the process of reading through the answers and formulating my replies to them as much as is necessary. In some cases, the answers have led to more questions.

No.

How surprised are you that I did?

Yo, Keruvalia, AIM: insane3rhyno.

I'll do my best to answer any of the 390 someodd questions you didn't post. Granted, we might take a while to get through the list...

this is shaping up to be quite an interesting little discussion group forming. i feel like those interested in actually having a little inter-faith/lack-of-faith discussion could do their own little newsgroup/email list on this one.

i'm also kind of surprised this has made it so far... but sort of impressed, too.

i'm also kind of surprised this has made it so far... but sort of impressed, too.

I'm not only surprised, but very pleased that this hasn't degenerated into a flame war.

People can be civil on NS! Woo!

My Questions for Atheists:
This isn't an attack but I am interested in what you (If you are an Atheist) Think.

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?

3. What do you think the most important thing in life is?

My Questions for Atheists:
This isn't an attack but I am interested in what you (If you are an Atheist) Think.

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?

3. What do you think the most important thing in life is?

1) When I die I believe that I will just, well, die. My brain will stop working and I will feel like I am asleep but without dreams. No, scratch that - I won't feel anything, because I will be dead.

I do believe that this is one of the many underlying ideas in becoming a Christian. Many people I have come across are just believers because they don't want to think that when they die, that will be the end of it. I have also heard many stories about people who convert like 2 days before they die because they want to believe that their existence will continue somewhere. People just like the idea that they will never truely be gone. I'm a realist, so I don't think along those lines.

2) No, I don't. Why should I? What is there i'm missing? From your point of view, I am missing God. From my point of view, he doesn't exist so I can't be missing him.

3) I believe that the meaning of life is to reproduce, or as you would say it, to 'go forth and multiply.' Because in the long run that is all we will really do, apart from destroying ourselves and wrecking the planet, of course. But that's the meaning of life. For me, life is all about happiness, and not trying to kill anyone else's happiness. That is my importance of life.

I just read through this thread, and I was wondering something. There have been several posts to the effect of "Belief in God is not logical", and I think that most Christians agree with that. It is based on faith. The reply to this seems to be that logic is greater than faith. However, everyone has some things that have no basis in logic. Your favorite color or food isn't logical; it is simply what you like best. I don't know anyone that says pizza is their favorite food because it is logical. And there's also things like love and trust. If you look at things like that completely logically, where would you be now?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you don't want to believe in God, that's fine. But saying that it's illogical doesn't hold for most people, because some things just aren't.

I'm an Eclectic Pagan (I take beliefs from many different Pagan religions, mostly Wicca) and it's a very misunderstood religion. Some people think we are Atheists, and we deny the existance of any Deities. I thought I'd answer these questions...
My Questions for Atheists:
This isn't an attack but I am interested in what you (If you are an Atheist) Think.

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?
When I die, my soul will go to the Summerland (it's basically what Christians call Heaven). There I can reflect on my life and the mistakes I made. I also decide the lessons I need to learn. When I am ready, I'll be reincarnated into another body, where I can learn what I need to learn. Like if I were too money-hungry I may be poor, in my next life. Once I have learned all I need, I will become a part of the God and Goddess.

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?
Paganism is a very fullfilling religion and I never feel empty. I imagine that without it though I would!
3. What do you think the most important thing in life is?
Making the world a better place. What is the point of life if you just prepare for death? You should concentrate on LIVING!!!

I know ... you said "Atheists", but I can answer from my own brand of Pagan thinking ...

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?

It really is a question of little significance as it's not for the living to know. It would be like waking up from a dream and wondering where the dream went.

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?

I suppose everyone feels emptiness from time to time. I'd say the most common cause of emptiness in people is desire. Desire for more money, a better house, a heavenly reward ... you know the drill. I don't think it is important to fill emptiness, rather to explore it and embrace it as an aspect of you and a way to learn.

3. What do you think the most important thing in life is?

Community.

My Questions for Atheists:
This isn't an attack but I am interested in what you (If you are an Atheist) Think.

i'm an agnostic, but my answers usually line up with an atheist world view. figured i might as well answer.

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?


i would be dead. my consciousness is an electrochemical phenomenon in my brain tissue, and when that tissue is no longer supplied with nutrients via my blood then the tissue will die.

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?


i feel empty right now, so i'm going to make some waffles.

(time passes)

ahh, all full now. seriously though, the times i feel empty are the times that i have been failing myself in the way i live my life. if i waste time or use time poorly then i feel an empty feeling remembering that time; keep in mind, though, i don't consider things like playing videogames to be a waste of time, so these empty feelings are pretty rare. :)

i fill these empty feelings by improving my actions. i use my time better, i make better memories, and i learn from my mistakes.


3. What do you think the most important thing in life is?
whatever each individual feels is most important. for me, the most important thing in life is to be happy; i could not be happy if i were not successful and independent, or if i were cruel or dishonest, so my happiness pretty much encompasses all the moral values i have. to live happily is, for me, to live justly and well, by definition.

Does anyone else think this is a little strange:

1. The point of this thread is to ask what normal everyday Christians believe, to see if they can answer some questions. The reason why that's being asked is that it's commonly believed that most just sort of blindly follow.
2. A positive response comes back from a few Christians, answering some or all of the questions.
3. A negative response comes back from a few Christians, asking the original poster to find the answers on its own. Even though some of the answers have already been posted. Note that this totally violates the premise for point 1.

It's silly, in the meta-thread sense.

3. A negative response comes back from a few Christians, asking the original poster to find the answers on its own. Even though some of the answers have already been posted. Note that this totally violates the premise for point 1.


Heh ... yeah ... those responses are a source of minor annoyance, but I've tried to answer them without malice. Why? Because even I accept the validity of blind faith. While I disagree with the practice, I cannot ignore that many followers of many spiritual paths - Yes, I mean you too, Pagans and Atheists! - simply accept someone's reasonable argument for their faith as acceptable.

I will be the first to admit that blind faith is easier. I am 32 years old and I've spent 29 years (so far) in study on spirituality and religious doctrine and I don't think I'm even close to done. I am fortunate, though, that I have had plenty of resources at my command and parents who were of such wildly different beliefs that I wasn't locked into any one particular way of thinking. That, and I'm a Jew, and we're practically commanded to question everything - even God.

Anyway, I hope answers keep on comin'! So far it's been great! As for flames, well, those happen. I can gloss over them withough hitting reply. :)

My Questions for Atheists:
This isn't an attack but I am interested in what you (If you are an Atheist) Think.

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?

3. What do you think the most important thing in life is?

Not sure if I'm an atheist... I don't believe any of the organised religions have got IT, whatever IT is.

1) When you die, you get cold, then you decompose. I'd like to believe that we all return to the planet, or something. But, I don't - except in a very real "decomposing into the soil" kind of way, I guess.

2) No. I also don't get bored, which a lot of people seem to. I'm not sure if the two things are connected, but I feel they might be. I get the feeling that a lot of people feel spiritual 'need' when their entertainment runs out - and maybe the other way round.

3) The most important thing in my life is my wife and my baby. After that, it is important to me that I leave some kind of legacy, and that I never look back on my life and wish I'd done MORE.

I'm not only surprised, but very pleased that this hasn't degenerated into a flame war.

People can be civil on NS! Woo!

How come every time I post something it gets flamy???
Oh well, three cheers!

How come every time I post something it gets flamy???


Actually, there may be flames in this thread somewhere, but they would have been completely overpowered by the lengthy answer posts.

99% of the time when I see a flame - unless I have a funny response - I just roll my eyes, light up a cigarette, down a shot of bourbon, and keep on readin'.

I don't like to feed trolls.

how can you ask someone to justify the exsitence of heaven and hell? that's like asking someone to justify nebulas, or the big bang theory! and asking about witch trials and and persecution of non-christians?! try 350-1500 years ago! they know as much as you do! the fact is, christians believe that god exists, without proof, because they don't need it. they have a little thing called faith. i'm not a christian, but i can clearly see where they are coming from

Originally Posted by Black Peak
My Questions for Atheists:
This isn't an attack but I am interested in what you (If you are an Atheist) Think.

1. What do you think will happen to you when you die?

2. Do you ever feel a kind of emptiness at times? Or did you manage to fill it? If so, with what?

3. What do you think the most important thing in life is? Not sure if I'm an atheist... I don't believe any of the organised religions have got IT, whatever IT is.

1) When you die, you get cold, then you decompose. I'd like to believe that we all return to the planet, or something. But, I don't - except in a very real "decomposing into the soil" kind of way, I guess.

2) No. I also don't get bored, which a lot of people seem to. I'm not sure if the two things are connected, but I feel they might be. I get the feeling that a lot of people feel spiritual 'need' when their entertainment runs out - and maybe the other way round.

3) The most important thing in my life is my wife and my baby. After that, it is important to me that I leave some kind of legacy, and that I never look back on my life and wish I'd done MORE.
Ditto on #1 and the legacy of #3.

My response to #2 is that the emptyness I feel I fill with love: things I love, people I love, especially close friends, and memories I love.

Ditto on #1 and the legacy of #3.

My response to #2 is that the emptyness I feel I fill with love: things I love, people I love, especially close friends, and memories I love.

Makes me wonder... are there really a whole load of people out there, wandering around, felling 'empty'?

That would be kind of sad... :(

Like I (pretty much) said earlier, though: I think TV owes it's power to the spiritual starvation of the populace. I think religion has left a void, and television fills it, and, when television leaves a void now, religion fills it.

Makes me wonder... are there really a whole load of people out there, wandering around, felling 'empty'?

That would be kind of sad... :(

Like I (pretty much) said earlier, though: I think TV owes it's power to the spiritual starvation of the populace. I think religion has left a void, and television fills it, and, when television leaves a void now, religion fills it.

Heh. I can see that. I think philosophy's become a science, science a religion, and religion a philosophy as far as the masses are concerned.

Oh wow! I really should have looked at the thread before I posted. So... much... hate...

Heh. I can see that. I think philosophy's become a science, science a religion, and religion a philosophy as far as the masses are concerned.

I think it's a pursuit of purpose... and that western culture is in decline, as Rome was in it's last days...

Look at the gradual shift from an engaged population in Classical Rome (or Greece, for that matter) with an interest in theology, philosophy and science... all on an amateur basis - for the joy of discovery ---> to the degenerate 'bread and circus' days, as the population became less and less engaged, and demanded only entertainment, and the more gruesome the better.

Oh, it's a pessimistic view, I agree...

Makes me wonder... are there really a whole load of people out there, wandering around, feeling 'empty'?

That would be kind of sad... :(
When the question was asked in that manner, it resonated with a particular feeling inside, as transitory as any emotion. A lot of my 'feelings' I have no name for, and that's as good a one as any.

Like I (pretty much) said earlier, though: I think TV owes it's power to the spiritual starvation of the populace. I think religion has left a void, and television fills it, and, when television leaves a void now, religion fills it.
That sounds like a gross over-simplification, but I have no data so I can't comment.

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 6 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"

Looks like you have a bit too much free time on your hands.

Looks like you have a bit too much free time on your hands.

I have the same 24 hours in my day that you do. You choose what you do with your 24 hours, I choose what I do with mine.

Or are you suggesting that having free time is a bad thing?

I do not fear questions. I may not be able to answer them all, but I do not fear them.

Keru, you seem to have already a kind of ambivalence towards Christianity, do you not? No offence intended. At all.

Keru, you seem to have already a kind of ambivalence towards Christianity, do you not? No offence intended. At all.

Nah ... you should read through the thread ... I don't. I can understand why someone would think so, though. Many people question things just to expose their flaws. Those people are called "cynics". I am no cynic.

When the question was asked in that manner, it resonated with a particular feeling inside, as transitory as any emotion. A lot of my 'feelings' I have no name for, and that's as good a one as any.


That sounds like a gross over-simplification, but I have no data so I can't comment.

I know it is a gross oversimplification.

Lots of people have no TV. Many people are Atheists... neither group fits into my image.

It's a perception. It SEEMS that many people feel these times are 'spiritless', it seems many people seem to have some kind of 'hollowness' to their lives, and it seems that many people watch TV JUST to occupy themselves with something.

How many times have you asked someone why they were watching something, and they either said "There was nothing else on" or "I wasn't REALLY watching it"?

It seems to me that many people (not all) watch TV sometimes (certainly not all the time, since there have been many things I have found out on TV) to satisfy some lack. (A lack I am attributing to a spiritual atrophy, since many people seem so 'at a loss' in their lives).

Nah ... you should read through the thread ... I don't. I can understand why someone would think so, though. Many people question things just to expose their flaws. Those people are called "cynics". I am no cynic.

Please excuse me. 15 pages of computer concentration is rather hard to bear...

It's good to question. Intelligence comes from daring to question. Of course, on the extreme you get skepticism, which really means nothing but stalling world progress.

Please excuse me. 15 pages of computer concentration is rather hard to bear...

It's good to question. Intelligence comes from daring to question. Of course, on the extreme you get skepticism, which really means nothing but stalling world progress.

Then again, skepticism is ALSO the mechanism that often stops people from making foolish mistakes... double edged sword.

Then again, skepticism is ALSO the mechanism that often stops people from making foolish mistakes... double edged sword.

of course. of course. i mean the extreme kind, like "how do you know you even exist?" kinda stuff.

let me do the work for the Christians. the answer to all questions is "because i believe in God, God is smarter than people, you are a person, therefore God is smarter than you and has all the answers. i am a person, so not smart enough to question God or His will, and i don't have to defend my beliefs to you even though i expect you to tollerate me telling you that you will go to hell for disagreeing with me on the subject of the God who i can't explain or understand."

Such an unbiased, non anti-christian response.....NOT!

FUCKING HELL KERUVALIA!!!! you've put some thought into this thread have'nt you!!!!!

respect

Heh. I can see that. I think philosophy's become a science, science a religion, and religion a philosophy as far as the masses are concerned.

Now that is truly quotable. You really should've saved that comment for an important paper, because that's the kind of cleverness with words you do not want people to rip off before you take full advantage of it! ;-)

I have the same 24 hours in my day that you do. You choose what you do with your 24 hours, I choose what I do with mine.

Or are you suggesting that having free time is a bad thing?

Well, you know what they say about idle hands.

Anyone wanna take a crack at these?

Christ...you got some issues here. Wow.. My Theosophistic past can't answer all of them, but I can try.. I doubt you compiled this whole thing, as it's an *Awful* lot of work... I wonder where perhaps you got this list?

1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

I beli--wait..bad word to use here. I think--better--that it had something to do with the purification of blood. After all, ritual sacrifice is a much older thing than Western Monotheism, and what was done to Jesus was more than just conventional torture. I think is was more or less a ritual. Watching the Snuff film made by Gibson can show that what he went through was extremely uncommon. Cruxifiction was death by asphyxiation. This man bled to death.

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

Naaaah. That's damning all the Hebrew tribes by their own God! Rediculous. That is to say that great Prophets such as Enoch, Noah, Moses, Abraham, and Elijah went to hell, not to mention the epitome of Adam and Eve. So that's quite foolish to think that, considering that Enoch and Elijah transubstantiated into the Elohim known as Metatron and Sandalaphon.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

I always try *not* to blame religion on the actions of its followers. Religions are pure beliefs and faiths. It is humanity that is fallible, and thus it is humanity whom must take fault for their own mistakes. Blaming religion only makes it a scapegoat. It's the people's fault, let it end there.

6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).

Yahweh is known to have some emotions, yes. That's not necessary a bad thing. So it tends to become aggressive at times. Discipline with a Gentle hand eh? Short quick answers to big problems. Morality isn't something understood to a being of great power. Such things are beyond mortal concepts. Yahweh is a very alien being. It's probably best to not try to understand that which is incomprehensible to the human mind. Take it as it is, your opinion is your own.

7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29).

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

10. Explain why children should submit to their parents' decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.

I don't think it *supports* it, but merely it was explaining that was just how it was in that time. Remember that the "bible" is but a collection of writings. It has a lot of didactic stories along with some histories and prophecies. Some things shouldn't be taken as deeply as they are sometimes.

Isn't the Father and Mother thing one of the commandments? Honor them? I think so. If their commands are evil? I believe that it would in turn dishonor God eh? Is he not the bigger of the Fathers? Sort of a slippery-slope argument right there...anyway...

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

Isn't there something called Purgatory that Catholics believe in? Sort of a middle ground between the two realms? Sort of a proving ground where souls would be able to do certain tasks to clense themselves of sin before granting the key to the Golden Gates. It's a good idea..should be transfered to the other sects.

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

Well, Revelations was a time of Divine Tribulation. All those righteous were already raptured. But within that 7 year period, besides those whom would be struck down by the Angel of Destruction's, Abaddon's (Apollyon's), army of Demonic Scorpion-Locusts from the Void to which he was sealed millenia ago, those would never die, but live in pain and be kept alive (sort of a paralyzing torture. Abaddon isn't exactly nice...)

Then again, at the end of Revelations there are passages of the 2nd Great War in Heaven, as Lucifer's Forces Rage against Yahweh once more. Samael (Satan), Abaddon, and even the Great Demon Leviathan was thrown into the Pit of Fire and Sulfer. With two of the Great Four Princes are literally gone. Half of Hell could be said to be freed from the bonds. Perhaps this can mean that half the souls can become lifted to Heaven for a second trial? It really only leaves Lucifer and Belial.

13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.

God wasn't the initial one to do this. It wasn't supposed to be *his* job. It was the Angel Samael's, the Angel of Persecution. However, Samael's own Trial had a verdict that banished him from Heaven, and God put it to the Angelic Order known as the Watchers to determine the victims of his denial. However, the Watchers became corrupted as well due to their own lust (headed by Azazel), and were too banished from Heaven.

It's just not a job that a lot of Angels are successful at. Don't expect His judgements to be perfect either.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

I BEG to differ. Demon Summonings were extremely Common. How else could you explain Solomon, Third King of Israel? People believe him to be the Wisest man to have ever existed religiously. Solomon was gifted with the Book of Raziel, a script of Divine Knowledge written by the Angel of Mystery. it's past possessors were the Prophet Enoch, the Alpha-Male Adam, and the Savior Noah. Solomon took with it powerful incantations to summon and control demons. These demons were servants to the Wizard Solomon, whom used them to build temples (he himself build a couple to the Demons out of respect, or perhaps he worshipped them for their power?). He was actually done in by the most powerful of the demons summoned (whom are collectively known as Goetia when referred to within the Lemegeton, the Lesser Key of Solomon), named Astaroth.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

Basic Psychology can tell you that. Religion isn't the end-all reasoning. Science likes to move in on things. Then again, there's such things as a true personality and a false one.

16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.

Ignorance is Bliss. *chuckles*

17. What is Heaven like?

18. What is Hell like?



Tough question. It's like asking, "What's America like?" in terms of either geographical description, society, community, what? It's too vague to answer. Specify what you want to know about a place rather than just...the place. I mean..seriously. If it is indeed more than just a sense of mind, than it would have to have some geography right? It's not just people floating on clouds now (it really isn't!). You want to know about the community of people, how the class system of its natural inhabitants is, what its geography is,....give me some info here!


19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.

20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.

21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it's OK for your god to engage in a practice that is usually referred to as "entrapment."

Well, for one, let me Establish the Tree of Knowledge was the Divine Realm of the Angel Jophiel, an incredibly powerful Angel, gifted with the Divine Sword of Fire. In fact, all of Eden was. He was the one whom let Adam in, and it was he whom kicked their asses out. He's a very tempermental Angel, and is very harsh (to this day he stands guard at the Tree of Knowledge, bandishing his blade on orders to destroy any human whom would dare trespass into Eden once more. He's as hardcore as it comes!).

Also, let it be known that the temptation was never there (perhaps out of fear of Jophiel), until Samael intervened. Samael was full of hatred for humanity, and wanted to much to see them pushed from their high pedestal to become fallible so his kind, the Angels, would once more bask in the glory of being God's greatest creation. A lot of angels were against the creation of humanity (this is perhaps why, when the 7 handfuls of dust were gathered to create Adam, Azrael, he Angel of Death, was the only one to come up..erhmm..Empty-Handed. This may help explain why the initial humans did not suffer from mortality!). So we take the stain of Samael's trickery.

22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered "bad" by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be "bad," then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.

I think it's pretty much just pre-marital sex. Even *I* am against that, but not out of any religious reasons. I'm agnostic. I just think it's a better idea to abstain.

23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.

24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.

Starting a cult is hard (when all new religions or sects start, they're always cult-level). Sometimes it takes more than a leap of faith. I guess they needed a little proof. I mean..come on.. Who is going to believe that a carpenter and a dozen fishermen are going to change the world?!

25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?

No one actually saw it. Which allowed the Romans to shrug it off as a grave-robbing. For such a remarkable human being, it was logical that it would happen.

26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the "divinely inspired" argument: that is not logical, and cannot be accepted by those who aren't already religious).

This is what is called the INFAMOUS Necine Council, which established the "formal" Bible and censored many books, and just plain left some out (the greatest being the works of Enoch), and dismissed Jewish Kabbala Texts. For those whom know of it, it's a huge stain against the Catholic Church, and Christianity as a whole, as it is a successful argument against them that they are attempting to banish their Jewish base and distance themselves from what is their foundation.

The only other bigger thing than this would be one of the Pope's whom actually struck Angels from the Biblical record because people began to pray to Angels instead of God (though it was still okay to pray to Saints for some reason?!). If you don't know this, I implore you look it up. It's a religious atrocity!

27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?

28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?

Tough ones. Parasites rarely kill their hosts, am I right? They do as little harm as possible to sustain life. I think it's just the circle of life here. Creation must be flawed, for it was the product of a Proud creator (Lucifer). It allows for a natural balance of things, and the only wrench in that cogwheel that keeps nature in perfect balance is humanity (perhaps giving more of a reason to why Angels could foresee that humanity is ultimately a bad idea).

29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, how is that free will?

Free Will is a double-edged Sword. Angels didn't get it. They''re, to my knowledge, more threatened with eternal torture than humans ever were. Humanity is always given nearly infinite patience to their decisions. Humanity can choose to ignore God or embrace it. Easy as that. You don't have to recognize its existence. That's ultimate free will. No punishments because there's no crimes.

30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.

God can't cause or Force people to do anything. His angels can attempt to use strong suggestion methods (kind of like Mafioso types!), but it is always ultimately the decision of the person. People in power get influences from EVERYWHERE! There's countless voices telling them what to do. You can't single out a single influence, because there were multiple ones going in his decision anyway. Ramses II, was it, was a powerful man, I'm sure that if Angels spoke to him, he'd dismiss it. After all, he has Thoth on his side!

31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? At least Jesus was a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.

I don't think anyone asked him to do anything, but the person whom paid him the money. It was out of his Greed that he did what he did. Blame the person, not the religion.

32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn't he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn't we then be worshipping Judas?

I don't think worshipping someone whom betreys their friends due to their incredibly greed is a good idea. We might as well be worshipping Bill Gates (*cough* Errhmmm...Sorry Lord Gates!)

33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).

Hands Guided by the Word of God argument usually fits this.

34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

I don't think Yahweh is against homosexuality. I really don't see it as being a problem in any religion to accept people how they are and let them live their own lives. I actually try not to touch the topic at all, because it just *isn't* a topic for me. It's just another person, and that's how I see it. Homosexuality isn't something that's different. It isn't something that's the same. It isn't anything at all to be discussed because it's a matter of someone's private life, and people's private lives are theirs alone and not to be trifled with.

35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.

Prayer isn't asking from God. More or less it serves as a route to give a message to Metatron, whom delivers said messages to God through the 900 levels of Heaven (did I said it was a big place?). Most prayers are but thanking God and praising than asking anything from God.

Spellcasting is something ANgels can do. In fact, Azazel (mentioned before as head of the ANgelic Order of the Waters), taught men to do it. Solomon learned from the Book of Raziel. Even Abraham was a master of Holy Magick (Also known as Abra-Melin the Mage).

However, Magic is a power that, perhaps, God doesn't feel that humanity has the gall to possess. Perhaps it's just too powerful for an already too powerful race. It would perhaps tip the balance out of his divine favor as it could guard protection from his Divine wrath.

36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

This is ultimately a big mystery that will never be solved, because he just didn't tell anyone what he did for 30 years. That's why it was never written down. Best not to dwell on it.

37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.

It's historically significant. It's been historically documented that this man indeed did exist. How important he was religiously is the only thing that's to debate.

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

Ugh...etymology...

I'll finish the rest later.

Well, you know what they say about idle hands.


If I am doing something with my free time, then my hands clearly are not idle ...

Actually, they are legitamite questions that I snail mailed to every local Christian church in my phone book about 6 years ago and nobody answered any of them.

Nobody.

I guess the final question - at this point - would be "Why are Christians afraid of questions?"

Now, what kind of person writes out all them qustions,mails them to all the nearby churches and expects ?well what did you expect???
Its obvious that you are an intelligent person but what is your problem eh??
I was born roman catholic.I went to an all boys catholic school(yes it's all true)and have as much issues with the organised church as any-man ,but that list and the language or at least the tone......well at the risk of insulting another human being makes me think that ...well thats the kind of person that goes into churches with guns. Unhinged.
Why are christians afraid of questions? Oh give up! It would appear that you know the bible well , why not read it,make your own mind up.Thats the beuty of the bible ,one can make up ones own mind and take any side of the argument.But you dont want that do you? no ! you want people to think that your clever and worldly,marvelling at your long list of questions. aaahhh get over it. Get a hobby. Try bowling,thats apperently what you people are into.

b.

While I do not have the time nor the ability to answer all of those questions...you're not helping the Christian case with that kind of sarcasm, because your conduct speaks, too.

Now, what kind of person writes out all them qustions,mails them to all the nearby churches and expects

This kind.

Its obvious that you are an intelligent person but what is your problem eh??

Intelligent? Maybe ... I don't know. Inquisitive? Absolutely. Problem? None at all.

I was born roman catholic.I went to an all boys catholic school(yes it's all true)and have as much issues with the organised church as any-man ,but that list and the language or at least the tone......well at the risk of insulting another human being makes me think that ...well thats the kind of person that goes into churches with guns. Unhinged.

Well ... unlike a lot of people around here, I am not and have never in my life been a Christian. Hence, I ask questions. Do you not seek to learn about strange and foreign religions? Do you not seek to understand their core?

Understanding leads to better communication. I will never see better communication as a bad thing.

But you dont want that do you? no ! you want people to think that your clever and worldly,marvelling at your long list of questions.

No ... I wanted people to discuss ... I believe I have accomplished that.


aaahhh get over it. Get a hobby. Try bowling,thats apperently what you people are into.

You people? What "people" am I?

Making a small start at this...I may come back for more later. For now, I'm just answering the questions where answers come to me right away.


1. Explain why your god's only son had to die so we can go to a land of happiness ("heaven") when we die.

I do not pretend to have a perfect understanding of this at all, but what I do understand is that through Jesus, God paid the price for our sins. We ourselves could not make such a perfect sacrifice, which was why He had to do it instead. Pardon the clumsy explanation...there are others who can put it better than I can, like C.S. Lewis (as one example...I know some don't like him, but he makes some sense to me).

2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.

I don't think so. I think that God is timeless, and therefore even though Jesus' death occurred at a specific point in linear time as we understand it, it doesn't mean everyone before Him by our perspective would be damned. I have two reasons for this. First, I draw evidence for the timelessness of God from the opening of the Gospel of John, which as I understand it, states that Jesus preexisted us all. This would also be a necessary precondition to omniscience. Second, I do not believe that God is capricious (He cannot be, with infinite wisdom and judgment)--to damn people simply by virtue of their place or time of birth without regard for anything else would be capricious.

3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of "heretics" throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until they were almost entirely depopulated; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the seventeenth century reforms.

I am a Protestant, and I have no excuses to offer for this. I desperately wish it had not happened. However, I do not fault the religion itself for this--I fault "believers" who twisted the Scriptures and doctrines to feed their own selfish desires.

4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.

5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were Christians, but not members of your particular sect.

See #3.

8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

My understanding of the 1 Corinthians reference is that St. Paul referred to a specific incident at the time in which women in that area were actually interrupting the service to prophesy--I suspect interruption from men would've met with a rebuke from St. Paul as well.

What is interesting, though, is that St. Paul seems to be deeply torn as he tries to get through this chapter. While he refers to the social customs at the time (women covering their heads and so on), he then goes on to say in this chapter, "In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God." (1 Cor 11:11-12) He seems like he's vacillating, and I think that he probably was. On one hand, he was concerned about not causing a disruption by intervening with the social customs of the time (each of these letters he wrote was to deal with specific matters that came up at the time...in this same letter he refers to other disruptions that are not necessarily associated with women)...and on the other hand, I think he did realize there was something wrong with the inequality, and tries very hard to say it.

St. Paul also makes a POWERFUL statement of equality in his letter to the Galatians: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3:28) Now, I know this is going to make waves with fundamentalists, but I don't think people always wrote stuff down correctly when divinely inspired. It's human nature to mess up, mistranslate, and so on. St. Paul seems to have been in conflict himself. In the book of Acts, there's an incident where after St. Paul does a miraculous healing, and the people there started to worship him as a god...he becomes DEEPLY distressed at this, and shows in front of this crowd signs of deep anguish at it, crying out that he is just a man, not someone to be worshipped. These words from St. Paul himself are part of why I do regard some statements of his as being "of the times" (the inequality statements) and others as being "timeless" (the equality statements).

(Incidentally, in light of what I just said, I should explain why I give him his title of "Saint Paul". When I say it, anyway, I don't imply he's perfect, I'm just showing respect.)

9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Refuting that entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18.

My response here is very similar to what I said with regards to women.

I am not sure that the time was yet right to disrupt the very powerful and very hierarchal society the Romans had, which did allow slavery. Sadly, I think Christianity would've been stomped out of existence had they tried. I point to the same verse in Galatians that I did with the gender question, though, to show that even though they couldn't do anything about it (and I do allow, too, that the authors themselves may not have made the leap all the way forward to imagining a society without slavery), that there was some understanding at least, that it was wrong--and that the seeds were being sown towards abolition.

11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: "Many are called but few are chosen," and "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it." If your god loves all of us, and is omnipotent and omniscient to boot, couldn't he have found a better way?

I do not know that a better way IS possible, to create rational spirits who understand choice. Unfortunately, to have reason, we must have choice, and for choice, there has to be good and evil, and we have to be accountable for our actions. As to love, that doesn't mean simply coddling somebody and depriving them of this choice. I think we've all seen that in our own lives that sometimes, when you love someone you have to let go, or you have to take an action that will be very hard on you and perhaps on them as well. And it hurts, deeply. I have a feeling God grieves even worse than we do about these things. It is very, very sad, but I don't think a better way could've been found, other than simply not creating us. And I don't think that would really BE "better".

12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 200 words, please.

I can't give you a specific list of offenses, but I think I can take a shot at what attitude they'd be rooted in: an attitude that revels in destruction and longs for nothingness...basically, an unrepentant hate for goodness.

14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.

As some others have said, it's because these things WERE epilepsy and schizophrenia, but people did not know how to articulate it--and Jesus cured the causes of the illness just as He cured other physically-based illnesses. I do imagine He may have been able to do more than our current medicines can, though, and perhaps address any underlying psychological problems...but my main point is, I don't think the difference in understanding and terminology in any way diminishes what was done.

15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone's personality.

Now this is a question I LOVE! :-D

Seriously, this has been an absolute favorite for me to think on. What my personal conclusions boil down to is this. I am not convinced that the brain is a container for all that we are, but rather a conduit of our spirits. That is, I think of the spirit acting upon the brain just as we act upon a computer. If you mess something up inside the computer, even though we as the user are OK, the computer's output is going to be messed up. The same sort of idea would explain why damage to the brain would warp the personality (output) of a person. The spirit has not been damaged--its ability to interface effectively with the world has, and therefore the output is altered or corrupted.

Well, that's all I've got time and energy for at the moment, but I thought I'd toss that out there. :-)

38. Define the word "Christ," including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.

Middle English Crist, from Old English Crst, from Latin Chrstus, from Greek Khrstos, from khrstos, anointed, verbal adj. of khrein, to anoint. See ghri- in Indo-European Roots.]

This feels like a homework assignment now. You can do this.

39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).

A lot of Pagan religions denounce western monotheism, mainly because they feel the religion is stealing things from them. Such as Jesus's birthday was actually recorded in the summer (For us in the North Hemisphere...heh. Choose opposing season for you South Spheries). Also that Easter is congruent to Beltane, the most important Pagan Holiday (The Festival of Fertility). They dislike the negative fixation on the Goat, perhaps Pagan religion's greatest icons, for it is their symbol of birth, rebirth, and life (symbolized by Mendes), yet most gothic pictures feature Samael being quite goat-like in a mockery of this ideal.

Let the fued begin!

40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.

He and Ghandi alike.

Non-violence approaches'll get that.

41. The name "Jesus" has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information?

Well...yes and no. If the Divine Trinity thing is right, then Jesus definitely isn't an Angel. If its not, then he's probably an Elohim (I'm sure the Islamic religion would agree that as he is a Great Prophet, he should ascend to Elohim like Enoch and Elijah. Perhaps Muhammad is Elohim as well?).

Wasn't Jesus' original name Yeshua? So..I guess Josh would be his modern name. *GASP!* THAT'S WHY I NEVER SEE ADULTS NAMED JOSH!

He was given this name before he was born religiously. If Theosophic accounts are to be counted, then it was the Angel Gabriel whom instructed Joseph about the coming of the Child. Gabriel also told Joey what to name the child: "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name, Yeshua, because He will save His people from their sins" (Mt. 1:20-21).

42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?

You call these Pagans? These are Roman Pantheonic Stories. This shit ain't Pagan. Dionysus was the God of Wine, Assclepius was the God of Medicine (son of Apollo!), and Hercules was a DemiGod. I don't really recall where Jesus battled the many-headed Hydra...

Oooh wait..he battles the BEAST in Revelations. Wheeee!!!!

43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?

...Blaming religion for the people. BAD DOG NO BISCUIT!

44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament suggests that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).

It doesn't say they have to listen. That's merely giving away to create missionaries. It's not forcing people to believe. It's merely giving them the chance if they choose to. This is a great thing that everyone can misinterpret and add bias to their hatred!

45. Explain why spreading the "truth of Christ" requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Pagans worship the Christian devil, this being a rumor which has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE.

You are blaming the religion for the people again. If you want to be treated fairly, you must do it to others. I think I addressed that thing previously anyway when I cited Beltane.

46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said "son of man" quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as "a son of god," but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time: someone who was "a son of god" was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites' belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don't believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?

Refer to Gabriel's statement to Joseph. I don't think he had to say it. That'd kind of ruin the faith-git.

47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the "turn the other cheek" idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/ philosopher/ ethicist?

I don't think he 'stole' them from Buddha. To 'steal' them means he was knowledgeable in the teachings of Buddha and said that they were his. Since he was Jewish, and Christianity can be seen as a Jewish Sect, I don't think you can steal something you already own. Your points are moot.

Influence is just as powerful than anything else. Sometimes how far your words go is as important as what you say.

48. When Jesus said, "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also," why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don't we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?

Because people as this modern era are inherently lazy and would rather sit and complain than try to change things unless it inherently affects them. Then again, Americans have always been incredibly outstanding for their civil rights (most anyway), and political freedoms. Maybe it's more or less a nationalistic thing. That goes into Social Darwinism kinda.

49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn't the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?

I *really* don't think it was a stunt to convert non-monotheists. To make such a claim is ludicrous. Those holidays weren't even put into effect until the Gregorian Calender was created. So who really knows?

50. Explain how your god can be "just and merciful" in light of Exodus 20:5.

I said 'God' had emotions, didn't I? Is not the First Commandment not to worship anything besides It? Capital offense, if I do say so myself.

51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic god (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn't like much).

Because Christ was Jewish, so shall all Christians be, in a sense. You can't just 'cut' off the foundation of a religion, even though Christianity has almost done it (Necine Council, Apocrypha, Kabbal, etc. etc.). God as a being has existed in almost no form whatsoever in the New Testament, save in Revelations, in terms where his metaphysical actions were made to be done by Angels. It's a kind of a mystery now...

52. Explain why your "just and merciful" god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elija "baldhead." (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).

Elijah transubstantes into the Angelic Elohim Metatron, the Voice of God. I think it might have been Elijah's doing with his own powers. God didn't send those bears.

53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).

It's called describing a setting. This happens in something called literature, when there are things called places, and they have more than just a flat grey plane. That's how it was then. It would be more wrong to ignore it.

54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?

I believe it was the original one, or perhaps as an exhibition of his existence!

55. Are all members of all other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

Just because you believe in something else doesn't mean you're a bad person. The way you live your life and the choices you make in it is what truly counts, and every religion can vie on this (perhaps even Calvinists!). You're trying to open a can of worms with this one, and I for one won't let you.

56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.

I, being agnostic, don't believe I'm a bad person, but I've not made all the right decisions in life. I'm still searching, I think? There's so much unknown in this universe. There's got to be more that people don't realize! I refer you to my answer above. We're only human.

57. What was your motive in proselytizing me?

Who the FUCK said anything about that?!

58. Where is Heaven?

59. Where is Hell?

No one is to say. It's best to be inferred that they are other-dimensional realms or planes that are inter-connected to our own in a manner of Divine Creation (Perhaps as a safety mechanism by Lucifer). However, the recollection of the Firmaments would suppose that Heaven would be placed in a Higher Plane above the physical (corporeal) plane of existence, and Hell lower, but this forgets places such as Purgatory, the Void, and the Pit of Fire and Sulfur: religious geographical regions which have no fitting, for they are neutral. Then again, Eden is most likely a different Plane as well.

60. Why don't animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?

People mostly use this argument saying that animals either have no souls or have no holy ghost or whatnot. What I would like to believe is that all animals return to Eden under the Watchful eye of Jophiel. Though it isn't anywhere in any Scripture, it would make so much sense that it would be so easily acceptible.

61. Why does Satan try to get peoples' souls?

Samael, known to most as Satan, is an Angel with a vengeful Hatred of Humanity. He was the bullhead of the Angels' protests against the creation of humanity. They despised humanity and God's reverence for humans above Angels. They didn't understand why humans were so important. They were fleshy, weak, had free will, and soon, were mortal. Angels were strong, dominant, had incredibly abilities, immortal, invincible (Angels have never died or have been destroyed ever). Yet, God and Samael aren't enemies. They're just locked in a game. Samael enjoys keeping Souls from God because of his hatred is fueled that much more.

62. Once Satan has someone's soul, what does he do with it?

....Whatever the fuck he wants.

63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.

God hasn't really done a lot besides create Angels, tell them what to do (the way those actions are done are the fault of the Angels), and transubstatiate into Human form, according to Christianity, to declare himself still existant. I don't see many flaws in his actions, as few as they are, but his decisions have been seen as rather...ill-conceived, albeit always a solution.

After all, a flood can clean any mess!

64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive? Justify your answer, using quotes from the Bible if you can.



65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.

Satan isn't even his name. It was given to him perhaps after Set, but he doesn't even like that name. He would always prefer to go by his real name, Samael (sometimes two M's). Samael is the Angel of Persecution. He was created to find Sin in God's creatures. As such, he has the ability to pierce through the soul of any being and read their every wrong.

66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.

67. Why do good people often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.

I believe it was Maddox, (www.thebestpageintheuniverse.com), whom dropped these nuggets of joy:

Cheaters never prosper: BULLSHIT. At least 90% of cheaters prosper. Those cheating bastards get by the system every time. There was a whore in one of my computer science classes that didn't do any assignments, failed all the exams, but still passed the class because she was sleeping around with all the TA's. It's a repeating cycle perpetuated by corrupt administration and slacker kids that aren't willing to put forth the effort it takes to pass. They should all be shot.

....I don't know if that answers anything...but Ooh well..


68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.

If the actual bodies raised, wouldn't they technically be zombies? ...Scary.. Romero must be shitting himself when that happens, saying he told everyone that he knew it was coming.

69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.

I think you should ask why the pilots let that happen.

70. What is sin, exactly?

According to Catholics, what isn't?! (Har Har)

I believe that the best way to answer that would be to define it as a Deliberate transgression of Morality.

71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).

Notice the tree itself had no fruit, and was in the middle of a road, and was, overly, a useless object (as in it had no real use but to be eaten or destroyed, as it would not grow fruit). It was but an example of what can be done if people believed in themselves. A wholly positive message if I do say so myself. There was no real hurt in anything that happened. You can't see the forest for the trees.

72. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-Semitism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).

Get it through your thick head that you shouldn't blame religions for the actions or opinions of people. Even in that passage, it is Paul (I think) saying it. Blame the hell out of Paul, it's his opinion. Get your own.

73. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn't this also constitute "entrapment?"

Moreso perfect than Angels? A matter of opinion, of course! I don't believe 'standards' were given until the Meeting upon Mount Horeb. Until then, God pretty much left humanity alone to see how his project went.

74. If we are created in your god's image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?

Samael is just that powerful.

75. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.

That's more or less something to take against your governmental district. I'm sure sanitary conditions should be met before attempting to do so. I don't think it's ever been wrong to give an offering to what you believe. Hell, if that's how you describe faith, go out and do it. Just follow the law, or go to court to change it.

76. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn't life confusing enough already?

That was the Holy Covenant of Abraham, wasn't it? You know that's a huge energy battery right? Ever think about how it was made? I've done reports about people following directions to create this thing. If you check the materials and the fact that people drug it along sand barefoot, you realize that it's a machine that acts as a giant battery. This offering could have easily set it to discharge (that's the scientific theory, actually), blinding and shocking people. they would have easily been confused by this Phenomenon.

Time for another break. This is exhausting.