NationStates Jolt Archive

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?

Because it's the word of God, and God wouldn't lie. You then have to be happy that:

A: God exists
B: God actually told these people who wrote the bible these things
C: There are several versions, but hey, your one must be right even if it has been changed over a few hundred years..

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?
Because it's the Bible.

Because it's the word of God, and God wouldn't lie. You then have to be happy that:

A: God exists
B: God actually told these people who wrote the bible these things
C: There are several versions, but hey, your one must be right even if it has been changed over a few hundred years..

Ah, but then you have to ask, "how do you know it's the word of God?" and the answer is, of course, "because the bible says so".

Because it's the Bible.

That in no way, manner, or form comes remotely close to touching on the answer.

That in no way, manner, or form comes remotely close to touching on the answer.
It's the most common response by Bible thumpers. It's the Bible, therefor it's true.

It's the most common response by Bible thumpers. It's the Bible, therefor it's true.

Yes, irrationality in its purest form.

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?

The sixteen special herbs and spices that make it Godliciously good?

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?

Because I said so and never ask such a sinful question again! Now get in your closet and pray until I tell you you've been forgiven!

The sixteen special herbs and spices that make it Godliciously good?

You're on a roll tonight!

but a litlle thing..

1. why wouldnt god lie ?.. can we be his litlle ant farm :D ?
2. why dont god just spell "iam god, and i exist." on the sky with stars if he is so allmighty :D ?
3. why the fuck should we obey god ?.. because he sends us to eternal torture else ?... god=sadam :D

My belief in God:

Theoretically, the Big Bang should have been perfect, meaning all matter would be spaced out evenly and there would be no pockets of gravity where stars, planets, and asteroids would form. God mad sure that it didn't space out evenly so that things could be created. After that, he sat back and watched like we watch TV.

In otherwords, I believe the bible is a complete lump of BULL SHIT.

Because it's the Bible.
I just played poker with God last night and even he laughs when people say that.

Because it's the word of God, and God wouldn't lie. You then have to be happy that:

A: God exists
B: God actually told these people who wrote the bible these things
C: There are several versions, but hey, your one must be right even if it has been changed over a few hundred years..

Actually unlike the Koran which is belived to be the word of god by muslims my Anglican/Catholic/Methodist background has taught me that it is god breathed or inspired and not the direct word of god. this means it is influenced by the cultural influences at the time. The passage written in church that women shouldnt talk in church is an afront to the patriacal values at the time.

I read on this board a couple of days ago that whilst Paul contradicts passages in the old testement by saying men should have short hair (obvious roman influence their). Whilst passages like love is patient love is kind is actually telling the corinthians (i thinks) not to have orgies so a rejection of roman values. Other passages condemn the segregation of slaves and masters during mass to put them on a more equal setting.

Whilst the laws given by Moses are laws given to a previously enslaved peoples with no political structure or hierachy so this was to forge their own identity and a rejection of the Egyption culture they had previously been a part of.

If you think how our society has changed in the past 100 years the bible spans over 2000 years so changes masivily (therefore the bits which contradict themselves).

What makes it true is not the bits which change its the common values inherent throughout values which are also seen in other religions like love honesty honour truth hope which are the god like values that we should aspire towards.

If you believe in God, I don't think it's a long leap to believe in the Bible. And as for the different versions, the answer I most commonly get to that is, it's the divine will of God and He wouldn't allow it to be corrupted by anyone.


So basically I could grab a bible and a pen, make the most offensive translation possible (as if it isn't offensive enough in some places), and it would still be the word of God. w00t, I've found a new career!!

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?
Because its not unless its translated correctly. You see the bible is about 80% correct, the retranslatings of it has degraded a bit of the langiuage.
Its not the bibles fault but man, but you can always pray and ask Heavenly Father if want you read was correct.
I mean, people do still remember that I'd hope. There is a reminder in James. Ask exactly what you want if you want that answer. People forget that too much, they used the Lord's prayer and ask what someone else wants hoping Heavenly Father will read between the lines.
But then he can't answer a question you don't ask, he doesn't want to be overbearing. He is a loving father after all.

I'm glad I have Book of Mormon which reminds you to pray and ask, not just accept what is written. People follow things too much sometimes.

I'm glad I have Book of Mormon which reminds you to pray and ask, not just accept what is written. People follow things too much sometimes.And what makes the Book of Mormon so divinely true? And how interesting that your book would be called that, and yet you object so strongly to your religion being called that.

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?
The fact that there is no way to prove it is wrong. (Psst...don't let the religious folk in on the secret taht you can't prove it true either.)

Muslims aren't the Koranish are they?
THe Christians are the Testamentals or the Biblers?

Jews aren't called the Torahise?

So why should we be called the Mormons?

Again, if you read my post and understood it. I said we "actually" ptray and ask Heasvenly Father. Is that so hard, are you so proud, if you neck so stiff and stuck that you can't ask of another?
Oh woe be un thy you pharissee. The day will come when you will remember and cry why didn't I use my brain. (I don't know why I wrote last 2 sentences but it felt right)

The Christians are the Testamentals or the Biblers?


I would have called them "Gospelites" or "Testicles".

I would have called them "Gospelites" or "Testicles".
But that isn't the name of book now is it? People remember use the name of the book if you want to follow his line of thinking of calling people after the name of their book.

Again, if you read my post and understood it. I said we "actually" ptray and ask Heasvenly Father. Is that so hard, are you so proud, if you neck so stiff and stuck that you can't ask of another?
Hard to pray to someone you don't believe in.

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?

That's how you can tell they lie.

The Bible isn't true. People wrote it and put their own spin on it, so even if it was God's devine word it was warped and distorted. Plus things like the creation and the great flood are obviously bullsh**. In fact, I believe the person before mentioning God causing the Big Band and nothing else more than I ever would the Bible. (But that's because I'm a physics nut and I like that theory.)

I am a Christian but cannot believe everything in the bible and other holy books. I think it is more important to remember the values that it teaches.
I cannot believe for example:-

'No man who has been castrated or whose penis has been cut off may be included among the Lord's people.
No one born out of wedlock or any descendant of such a person, even in the tenth generation, may be included among the Lord's people'
Deuteronomy 23.1-2

There are similar passages from the Bhagavad-Gita, the Qu'ran, the book of mormon etc

They may have been inspired by god, but it is important to remember that they were written by men.

Well it cultural relativism really. Prior to 1492 everyone dreamed of a better route to China, India and the East Indies but it was incomprehensible that you’d sail west to get east, it made no intuitive sense. Now for what ever reason people were taught that the world was flat and a western route was suicide. They were complacent in their belief that the world was flat and why shouldn’t they be? No one could prove them wrong. I’m sure that the majority of you were taught that the bible was true, you merely became disenfranchised, some of you because of mitigating circumstance others because you seek a better communion with your lord. The ‘bibleists’ won’t be changing their views anytime soon, they’re comfortable. If you see it as a hypothesis or fiction then prove it.

Well it cultural relativism really. Prior to 1492 everyone dreamed of a better route to China, India and the East Indies but it was incomprehensible that you’d sail west to get east, it made no intuitive sense. Now for what ever reason people were taught that the world was flat and a western route was suicide. They were complacent in their belief that the world was flat and why shouldn’t they be? No one could prove them wrong. I’m sure that the majority of you were taught that the bible was true, you merely became disenfranchised, some of you because of mitigating circumstance others because you seek a better communion with your lord. The ‘bibleists’ won’t be changing their views anytime soon, they’re comfortable. If you see it as a hypothesis or fiction then prove it.

The belief the world was flat was NEVER prevalent. Columbus' crew were afriad because they thought he was a shitty captain, not because they thought they would sail off the world.

And demanding skeptics prove God doesn't exist would be 'shifting the burden of proof.'

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?

The same thing that makes anything true: its correspondence to reality. If what is written in the Bible happenned, then it is true; if it didn't, then it isn't.

The belief the world was flat was NEVER prevalent. Columbus' crew were afriad because they thought he was a shitty captain, not because they thought they would sail off the world.

And demanding skeptics prove God doesn't exist would be 'shifting the burden of proof.'

You seem to think there's a burden of proof...

Well it cultural relativism really. Prior to 1492 everyone dreamed of a better route to China, India and the East Indies but it was incomprehensible that you’d sail west to get east, it made no intuitive sense. Now for what ever reason people were taught that the world was flat and a western route was suicide. They were complacent in their belief that the world was flat and why shouldn’t they be? No one could prove them wrong. I’m sure that the majority of you were taught that the bible was true, you merely became disenfranchised, some of you because of mitigating circumstance others because you seek a better communion with your lord. The ‘bibleists’ won’t be changing their views anytime soon, they’re comfortable. If you see it as a hypothesis or fiction then prove it.

Actually many people though the world was round but few knew it sibce they couldn't prove it. It was mostly on faith. The greeks were correct in their assessment but were off by about 400 to 500 miles. They made a decent measurement guess.

Few people thought it to be flat but since no one could prove it, most just followed those they belived.

The same thing that makes anything true: its correspondence to reality. If what is written in the Bible happenned, then it is true; if it didn't, then it isn't.

big ups

People often argue that things are true because the bible says so, but what makes the bible true?
The Bible is true because the Bible says the Bible is true. Isn't theology fun that way?

You seem to think there's a burden of proof...

So you accept the existance of things that cannot be observed without proof? Like the invisible aliens on your front lawn?

So you accept the existance of things that cannot be observed without proof? Like the invisible aliens on your front lawn?
If they are invisible how do you know they aren't there? What can you see invisivble things, pfft now that would be something.

If they are invisible how do you know they aren't there? What can you see invisivble things, pfft now that would be something.

False logic. Why should I assume they are there?

the Bible is as true as the beholder's eyes sees them. Simple as that.

Well, you know it's true because God mooned Moses ...

Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my
back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

:D

I am the LORD thy God! Now look at my ass!

False logic. Why should I assume they are there?
How is it false, what if they are and you are in denial?

So you accept the existance of things that cannot be observed without proof? Like the invisible aliens on your front lawn?

Yes but not those. They're actually a government eugenics program, not aliens.

More to the point, if you believe in them, I do not take it upon my self to tell you that there is a burden upon you to prove it.

And perhaps even more to the point: I have seen and experienced things that you apparently have not, and am willing therefor to believe in the possibility of still other things. having observed the former, I do believe in them. And although I am not a slave to reason I am not incapable of it, so I realize that I can never convey to you my experiences in a convincing way, unless you have had them as well, or are at least a true seeker. And I can never truly or fully convey the truths that I know to you, because for you to know them, you MUST experience them for yourself.

This is why I am Gnostic.

How is it false, what if they are and you are in denial?

What's the point of assuming they're there if there's no reason to do so, and their presence there doesn't really change anything?

[Of greater note, I don't have a front lawn]

Prior to 1492 everyone dreamed of a better route to China, India and the East Indies but it was incomprehensible that you’d sail west to get east, it made no intuitive sense. Now for what ever reason people were taught that the world was flat and a western route was suicide. They were complacent in their belief that the world was flat and why shouldn’t they be? No one could prove them wrong.

No-one except eccentric individuals in 1492 believed the world to be flat. It had been known to be a spheroid shape for over 1700 years by that point, and its circumference had been reasonably accurately calculated by the Greeks. A few dissenting voices did assert that the world was an inclined plane about a thousand years prior to Columbus, but they were not supported by the church which continued to assert and teach of the Earth as a sphere. The whole notion of the European pre-Columbus population believing in a flat Earth is the product of Washington Irving in the early 19th Century.

I will, however, agree that trying to reach China by sailing West appeared suicidal: but only due to the distances involved, not due to topology.

What's the point of assuming they're there if there's no reason to do so, and their presence there doesn't really change anything?

[Of greater note, I don't have a front lawn]

you say God's presence has changed nothing? God has changed me!!!

you say God's presence has changed nothing? God has changed me!!!

Must...Not...Troll

Must...Resist...

you say God's presence has changed nothing? God has changed me!!!

Or your perception of/belief in the existence of God...?

What's the point of assuming they're there if there's no reason to do so, and their presence there doesn't really change anything?

[Of greater note, I don't have a front lawn]
How does their presence not change anything? That would be first contact (hopefully peaceful) with aliens, you might be famous.
Now isn't it misleading to say something is somewhere is you don't have a somewhere?

How does their presence not change anything? That would be first contact (hopefully peaceful) with aliens, you might be famous.
Now isn't it misleading to say something is somewhere is you don't have a somewhere?

One can only continue the extended anology fallacy so long, y'know.

Or your perception of/belief in the existence of God...?
YES! SEE? RELIGION IS SUBJECTIVE! GET OVER IT! DON'T ASK SOMEONE FOR EVIDENCE THAT GOD EXISTS, EXPERIENCE HIM YOURSELF!

if you don't believe, you won't believe unless you've felt it yourself. it's really not that hard to understand, is it?

Who here liked Spock? Not the baby doctor but the Vulcan. When I was a kid I thought he was wiredly cool. I think in his own primative way Roddenbury made Spock as a walking talking exemplar of both the benefits of reason and its tragic shortcomings.

"Reason dictates" nothing. I refuse to be dictated to, even by Reason ItSelf!

PEOPLE dictate, using their own reason and reasons, flawed, incomplete, or even perfect, to lord their ideas over others. Some do it in the name of Faith, God and the Kingdom of Heaven, others in the name of Reason, the Worker, and the Glorious Revolution. All dictators belong in the same place: tied hand and foot in the bottom of an outhouse pit.

YES! SEE? RELIGION IS SUBJECTIVE!

I DIDN'T! SEE? YES! NO!

GET OVER IT!

GET OVER WHAT?!!!!SHIFT1111

DON'T ASK SOMEONE FOR EVIDENCE THAT GOD EXISTS, EXPERIENCE HIM YOURSELF!

I HAVE NEVER ASKED ANYONE FOR EVIDENCE THAT GOD EXISTS, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HIM AND SO AM UNABLE TO EXPERIENCE HIM>>>>!!!

if you don't believe, you won't believe unless you've felt it yourself. it's really not that hard to understand, is it?

No. Have you stopped shouting for good now?

I wonder if GMC will answer my question... what "burden of proof"?

What makes the bible true? Nothing.

However people need something to refer to even if it condradicts it's self or was actually written by chauvanistic bigots with delusions of righteousness. So yeah the bible's true because alot of people say so, just like the earth is flat because alot of people say so.

I DIDN'T! SEE? YES! NO!



GET OVER WHAT?!!!!SHIFT1111



I HAVE NEVER ASKED ANYONE FOR EVIDENCE THAT GOD EXISTS, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HIM AND SO AM UNABLE TO EXPERIENCE HIM>>>>!!!



No. Have you stopped shouting for good now?

*sulks*

ok ok...so mean...

*weeps in the corner*

it really wasn't against you. :(

it really wasn't against you. :(

The fact that you quoted me was a strong indication that it was (obviously a misperception on my part). No offense on either side, I hope?

Misfitasia. Hit it right on the nose.

I DIDN'T! SEE? YES! NO!



GET OVER WHAT?!!!!SHIFT1111



I HAVE NEVER ASKED ANYONE FOR EVIDENCE THAT GOD EXISTS, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HIM AND SO AM UNABLE TO EXPERIENCE HIM>>>>!!!



No. Have you stopped shouting for good now?

Actually, DB makes a really good point. The Existence of God can not be proven outside of a personal realm of acceptable evidence, nor does it need to be in order to be a valid concept. It's silly for theists to expect others to simply "take their word for it" because they know, just as it's silly for athiests to claim that personal belief in God is wrong or irrational as there is no concrete way of judging the personal experience of others.

Actually, DB makes a really good point. The Existence of God can not be proven outside of a personal realm of acceptable evidence, nor does it need to be in order to be a valid concept. It's silly for theists to expect others to simply "take their word for it" because they know, just as it's silly for athiests to claim that personal belief in God is wrong or irrational as there is no concrete way of judging the personal experience of others.
i agree that there is no proof either way about God, and that to make a truth claim is erroneous whether you insist God's real or you insist he doesn't exist. i have many ideological problems with atheists because they do not acknowledge the limitations of their own knowledge, and i find they usually suffer from a religious person's inability to be comfortable with those limits.

however, to behave as though there is no God is certainly the more rational choice given that we have been given no reason to do so, since we also have no information on which to base a belief in God (like what the nature of God is or how we should worship). it's like how we have no proof either way about the existence of magical invisible leprechauns, because those leprechauns could be clever enough to evade us and hide their presence, but we don't consider belief in invisible leprechauns to be equal in rationality to disbelief in those leprechauns. we believe it is more rational to believe my text appears here because i typed it and posted it than that a fairy inhabits your computer and makes it talk to you, despite the fact that we cannot disprove that fact...supernatural forces can not be touched by science or empiricism, and can always be made to escape the binds of proof, since the proposition of their very existence defies such proof.

what i resent is that people who choose to have faith in God try to distinguish between their beliefs and things like leprechauns. they claim the Son of Sam was crazy because his dog told him to kill, but their own belief is not any better substantiated. just because a whole lot of people share a given delusion doesn't make it more true, and i am tired of religious people trying to distinguish between superstition and religion...they're exactly the same, the one is just a bit less organized than the other.

if you want to believe in God, fine, and i will defend to the death your right to believe as you please. but don't EVER claim somebody else is crazy for believing the Wizard of Oz is real. don't ever claim that people who believe they have been abducted by aliens who look like Elvis are crazy. don't try to claim that people who blow up busses because they think God told them to are crazy. if you choose to be a believer then you have built your glass house and have given up your stone-throwing rights.

The Bible is corrupted and there's no way around that. Books have been thrown out of it, vital words may have been mistranslated (such as "parthenos"), people have tried to put it into the context of their times, and it just doesn't work. The Bible may have been true at some point, but a lot have things have changed regarding the perceptions of humanity to the world around us, the other people living here, and what different people consider god to be. The Bible is open to interpretation. That alone would suggest that the Bible isn't absolute truth, if people can take one verse 10,000 different ways. In all honesty, nothing is really true, because nobody sees truth the same way, so...I say the Bible isn't true, but I also say nothing else is true, either. Truth is based on perception and nobody percieves everything the same way.

Nothing makes the bible true, people either believe it or they don't. There is no evidence to back up what is said in the bible. There is evidence to back up certain time lines in history, but not the actual content.

if thats true then i should kill people who blashpeme and men who trim there hair and buy hundruds of slaves from abroad

if thats true then i should kill people who blashpeme and men who trim there hair and buy hundruds of slaves from abroad

Who knows if it's true? But laws will keep you from doing such things, so it hardly matters whehter it's true or not. All that really matters is what the government thinks is true.

Religion is putting faith into somthing that can't be proven or seen directly. That is why there is no evidence. I believe that God wanted it that way, so he could separate his true believers from the fakes. If we had proof, it wouldn't be called a religion. Everyone would believe it if we had evidence, so it would simply be fact.

That is just my opinion. It is fine to agree or disagree.