NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/museum1.cgi

Test your knowledge of atrocities committed by communism. My score was 42.5%.

'Where the fuck is the test, daddy?'

I'm guessing that because Communism has never existed, neither does the test.

'Where the fuck is the test, daddy?'

It's there now.

While i'm not a fan of the totalitarian USSR, lets analyse some of this.

Question 1:Most of the people killed by Lenin were...

Peasants were by far the most numerous class of person in Lenin's Russia; the other groups mentioned were singled out for persecution, but were far less numerous to begin with. The Don Cossacks were probably the second greatest victim group: since they were hostile to Lenin's regime, this ethnicity, numbering around 1 million pre-war, was nigh exterminated. For further reading, see Mikhail Heller and Aleksandr Nekrich, Utopia in Power: the History of the Soviet Union from 1917 to the Present.

"Killed" is subjective. The bolsheviks did not go around murdering entire villages for the hell of it...the counter-revolutionaries enjoyed this much more. (Though yes, atrocities were committed by both sides) Perhaps the famine is what they mean, in which case the definition of Lenin killing them cannot be used for reasons which i will discuss later. Also, the Don Cossacks were extreme loyalists and enjoyed privelaged positions in the Tsars army. Consequently many of them died fighting in the civil war. Exterminated is the wrong word.

Question 2: During World War II and its aftermath, Stalin ordered several entire nationalities within the Soviet Union deported to Siberia. Among these were...

The Crimean Tatars were also deported after the reconquest of the Crimean peninsula in World War II; ethnic Greeks and Koreans suffered similar treatment before 1941. The other nationalities mentioned were subjected to other forms of persecution during Stalin's reign, but were not deported en masse during this period. For more information, see Robert Conquest, The Soviet Deportation of Nationalities.

Not too familiar on this, however, I have said before that Stalin was nothing but a fascist.

Question 3: About 400,000 of the Czar's subjects perished in the horrible famine of 1891-92. About how many Soviet citizens died in the famine of 1920-21?

The fact that Lenin's famine was over 10 times as severe as the last major famine under the Czars shows how feeble the "bad weather" explanation was. The severity of this famine was confirmed by contemporary Soviet sources - see Carl Landauer, European Socialism: A History of Ideas and Movements.

Ah, this fails to take into account that the food stockpiles were already in shortage due to WW1 on the famines onset. Bad weather, civil war, collapsed infrastructure and an economy blown to pieces together exacerbated the situation to this point. More severe in terms of people that died than the famine of 1891-92, yes, but the Tsar would have done no better.

Q4- Lenin appears to have caused the post-Civil War famine deliberately, or at least acted with malevolent indifference. What are the main facts establishing this contention?

1. Lenin reversed his agricultural policies once starvation appeared to threaten the survival of the Soviet regime.
2. Substantial stockpiles of grain held by the Whites were captured in 1920.
3. Seed grain as well as food for family consumption was requisitioned from peasants as a punitive measure.

A drought did contribute to the famine, but it was far from the most important factor. See Richard Pipes, The Russian Revolution.

True, except for blaming the situation on Lenin. If the man who had written this had done his research, he would know that the requisition program was the brainchild of other politburo members and Lenin himself bitterly opposed the measure but was outvoted. Once these policies became clear to be causing greater food shortages, Lenin stepped in with his "New Economic Policy" and improved the situation, but it was far too late.

The ironic thing is, I seem to recall that the book this man cites explains this situation in detail- I used it last year for an essay. Unfortunately, I dont have a copy myself, so I cannot give a page reference short of going to the library.

Q.4. The odds of surviving a 10-year sentence in one of Lenin or Stalin's typical slave labor camps were around...

R.J. Rummel's Lethal Politics: Soviet Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1917, surveying various estimates of attrition rates in Soviet camps, finds the typical camp death rate ranged between 10 and 30%. Taking the middle estimate (20%) and using basic arithmetic, one arrives at the 10% figure.

Sounds believable- but he should have cited another source or two to ensure accuracy. Figures like that often vary wildly according to author. Inavailability is no excuse, because there are plenty of books upon the subject.

Also- to compare Lenin with Stalin, the person who wrote this test later does mention that only 100,000 were in camps under Lenin. How many are incarcerated in the US justice system now, just out of curiousity?

Q.6 Lenin set the precedent for each of Stalin's major crimes, EXCEPT:

Lenin refrained from taking the lives of fellow Communists, but there was nothing else he shied away from. Many neglect the deportations of the Don Cossacks, assuming that ethnic persecution began only under Stalin during World War II. For more details, see Richard Pipes, Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime.

Oh, im determined to track that book down and read it, considering how he conveniently forgot a portion of the last book. I'm sure i can counter the comment "nothing else he shied away from" using it.

Bah, i'm now going to start skipping questions and comment only on stupid mistakes or overlooking of facts:

Q.8 Trotsky's military policies included:

Imposing the death penalty for retreat.
Executing prisoners of war.

Well, here we go: France, the British Commonwealth and the United States during WW1 all imposed the death penalty for retreat and desertion. His attack on that is completely stupid.

He also fails to mention that the counter-revolutionaries liked to execute prisoners of war also- and the major combatants of WW1 weren't innocent to it. No Geneva convention here, don't forget. Though, to his credit, he does agree that the counter-revolutionaries were the only ones who initiated pogroms against Jews.

dum, dee dum, *skips Stalin part* Oh, an Ayn Rand quote. How typical. :rolleyes:

Ah, that's all I can be bothered with. Though curiously, I didn't see anything about Cuba there. Hmm.

89.5%. I guess I've slipped a little since I went to war college.