NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-stmosque0805,0,3909537.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines
It outlines a sting that occured in Albany, NY. This should make any terrorist think twice before trying to reach an arms dealer.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-stmosque0805,0,3909537.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines
It outlines a sting that occured in Albany, NY. This should make any terrorist think twice before trying to reach an arms dealer.
Euclid...they weren't trying to buy a missile.

Euclid...they weren't trying to buy a missile.
I never said they did. But they were working with an arms dealer.

Albany is too close to where I live for comfort. And the thing is, Albany is no where near New York City. This means that terrorists are beginning to heavily operate inland, and not just using Canada as a staging area.

bump

Albany is too close to where I live for comfort. And the thing is, Albany is no where near New York City. This means that terrorists are beginning to heavily operate inland, and not just using Canada as a staging area.
What terrorists are these?

If you ask me, this entire thing stinks of entrapment.

What terrorists are these?

If you ask me, this entire thing stinks of entrapment.
The FBI does it all the time. They send an agent undercover, wait for a suspect to act, then arrest him. It's a favorite method of disrupting the drug trade, or getting the hard to nail criminals.

The FBI does it all the time. They send an agent undercover, wait for a suspect to act, then arrest him. It's a favorite method of disrupting the drug trade, or getting the hard to nail criminals.
Yes, and the most favored method of defending against those is to claim entrapment. These people had no intention to buy anything (too illegal) before the stinger offered the oppertunity.

Yes, and the most favored method of defending against those is to claim entrapment. These people had no intention to buy anything (too illegal) before the stinger offered the oppertunity.
Still, as far as the law is concerned, it doesn't matter if undercover agents wanted you to commit a crime. All that matters is that you did. The agents themselves can get away with it, as the missiles are never real. It's complex, and maybe unethical. But it's certainly legal.

Yes, and the most favored method of defending against those is to claim entrapment. These people had no intention to buy anything (too illegal) before the stinger offered the oppertunity.
and what if the stinger wasn't a stinger, but a real dealer?

Still, as far as the law is concerned, it doesn't matter if undercover agents wanted you to commit a crime. All that matters is that you did. The agents themselves can get away with it, as the missiles are never real. It's complex, and maybe unethical. But it's certainly legal.
Yes, it does, if you had no intention of committing a crime and the dealer forces/nudges you to commit a crime, they have no case. Its not legal.

and what if the stinger wasn't a stinger, but a real dealer?
Not many people come up and ask me if I want to launder money for them.

Still, as far as the law is concerned, it doesn't matter if undercover agents wanted you to commit a crime. All that matters is that you did. The agents themselves can get away with it, as the missiles are never real. It's complex, and maybe unethical. But it's certainly legal.
They didn't actually do anything besides talk about it...who knows they didn't want the missile to fight terrorists anyways?

Yes, it does, if you had no intention of committing a crime and the dealer forces/nudges you to commit a crime, they have no case. Its not legal.
He didn't nudge. They had intention if they were willing to get a loan to buy this stinger from him. It's worked in countless drug cases before. Same with people wishing to hire hitmen, where the hitman is an undercover agent.

and what if the stinger wasn't a stinger, but a real dealer?
There aren't exactly a ton of missile dealers in Albany.

They didn't actually do anything besides talk about it...who knows they didn't want the missile to fight terrorists anyways?
They said they wanted to use it against a Pakistani official in New York.

There aren't exactly a ton of missile dealers in Albany.
what's your point?

He didn't nudge. They had intention if they were willing to get a loan to buy this stinger from him. It's worked in countless drug cases before. Same with people wishing to hire hitmen, where the hitman is an undercover agent.
There is a difference in the following two situations:
Agent: Hey man, you want to buy a missile launcher?
Guy: Sure, how much?
Agent: BUSTED!!

Guy: Can I buy a missile launcher, man?
Agent: BUSTED!!

Situation 1: Illegal sting op.
Situation 2: Legal sting op.

He didn't nudge. They had intention if they were willing to get a loan to buy this stinger from him. It's worked in countless drug cases before. Same with people wishing to hire hitmen, where the hitman is an undercover agent.
They didn't want to buy the missle, the guy (the stinger) needed someone to launder his money. (I believe)

Supposedly, and no news carrier that I'm aware of is running with this, so this is all hearsay of the highest order, police arrested a man living in a trailer near Lawrence, Kansas. Evidently, the trailer was facing an energy plant and, as soon as the police took the man into custody (I can't remember for what, though, like I said, this is all coming to me fourth or fifth hand from "people who know people who know people"...we all know how reliable THAT is), the FBI appeared and detained the man as he was on their list of suspects.

Regardless, there does seem to be more activity going on which makes the jaded part of me even more sure that we're being set up by Ridge and Ashcroft's press conferences to see a rally around the issue of terrorism and a Bush bump. This is all speculation, though, and I'll freely admit I've become one skeptical bastard.

what's your point?
Had the agent not been trying to bust them, there would have never been the oppurtunity for them to buy a missile launcher in Albany...

"Last summer, U.S. troops discovered Yassin Muhhiddin Aref's name, telephone number and address in a book left behind in a vacated terrorist training camp, a U.S. official told FOX News. The book also revealed that Ansar al-Islam, the group running the camp, had given Aref a title: "the commander."

Aref, 34, is the Imam of the Masjid As-Salam mosque in Albany, N.Y. He and one other mosque leader were arrested Thursday and charged with helping an undercover informant posing as a weapons dealer who was plotting to buy a shoulder-launched missile that would be used to kill the Pakistani ambassador in New York City.

Authorities said the men were paid $65,000 in checks and cash to purchase a missile and disguise the source of the money involved."

For crying out loud, these guys are guilty as sin. Innocent persons' names don't just show up in terrorist Rolodex's for no reason. And they don't take $65K with the understanding that they are to buy a missle with it.

It's definetely skirting entrapment but if the newspaper's account is accurate then it isn't quite there (according to the line drawn a few years ago -who kows where it is now). An agent can show the missile (drugs/whatever) to someone, say they will sell it for a price, and even tell that person how to finance the missile/drugs as long as they don't 1) ask the person if they want to buy it or 2) recomend to the person that they should buy it. I know it sounds like a miniscule step, and I favor staying away from the slippery slopes myself but that's were the line is (was?).

agent:I've got a missle I want to sell.
buyer: How much? still not illegal yet
agent: $50,000.
buyer: I'll take it.
busted

Had the agent not been trying to bust them, there would have never been the oppurtunity for them to buy a missile launcher in Albany...
so I assume your saying that this man should stay free?