NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.swiftvets.com/

The ad should load right on that page.

I think it speaks for itself-to anyone who isn't a stubborn partisan.

It's basically been debunked, even John McCain came out today and said it was bullshit. None of them actually served with Kerry.

I believe I've just addressed this in another thread. But for anyone coming in to this thread, let's just start with the fact that the group doing this ad is being funded by two Texas cronies of Bush. Then we'll go next with the fact that none of those in this ad ever actually served WITH Kerry. What they actually did was be in Vietnam at the same time that Kerry was. That's not serving WITH someone. The doctor who claims to have treated Kerry didn't actually treat Kerry but was merely in the vicinity at the time he was treated. Another doctor actually treated Kerry.

McCain called the ad dishonest and disrespectful and called on the Bush campaign to denounce the ad.

Partisan indeed.

I just heard an interview with the Dr. who treated Kerry's first "purple heart" wound. He said he literally put a band-aid on it and sent him away, then Kerry was sounding off about how he needed a purple heart and that started all present to start laughing.

As an aside, I had to march in a parade for a guy who, like Kerry demanded a purple heart. 600 men and women, out on a Saturday marching in a parade with 4 spectators. They were the man in question, his wife and daughter and the commander who was presenting the purple heart. Now, what did this guy do to earn his medal you ask? He bumped his head on his desk trying to get under it when a "terrorist" threw a grenade into the Greek base he was stationed at. Noone was hurt by the grenade, but he bumped his head and HAD to have the purple heart. LOL

I just heard an interview with the Dr. who treated Kerry's first "purple heart" wound. He said he literally put a band-aid on it and sent him away, then Kerry was sounding off about how he needed a purple heart and that started all present to start laughing.

As an aside, I had to march in a parade for a guy who, like Kerry demanded a purple heart. 600 men and women, out on a Saturday marching in a parade with 4 spectators. They were the man in question, his wife and daughter and the commander who was presenting the purple heart. Now, what did this guy do to earn his medal you ask? He bumped his head on his desk trying to get under it when a "terrorist" threw a grenade into the Greek base he was stationed at. Noone was hurt by the grenade, but he bumped his head and HAD to have the purple heart. LOL

WRONG!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

WRONG!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Well, the man was on the radio and just said that....also, it has also been reported that some veterans are coming forward to report that Kerry wrote the citation for his last purple heart himself. THAT will be interesting...but what is even MORE interesting is this.

Kerry is campaigning on his Vietnam service...but there is a 20 year gap there that he has not really mentioned...his 19 years in the Senate.

Now, as a Canadian you have no vote in this election, an obvious opinion, but no vote. So if Kerry loses what will you do then? I guess make room for Mr. Baldwin, he might FINALLY move away as he promised 4 years ago. ;)

Well, the man was on the radio and just said that....also, it has also been reported that some veterans are coming forward to report that Kerry wrote the citation for his last purple heart himself. THAT will be interesting...but what is even MORE interesting is this.

Kerry is campaigning on his Vietnam service...but there is a 20 year gap there that he has not really mentioned...his 19 years in the Senate.

Now, as a Canadian you have no vote in this election, an obvious opinion, but no vote. So if Kerry loses what will you do then? I guess make room for Mr. Baldwin, he might FINALLY move away as he promised 4 years ago. ;)
Biff...as much as you like to use Moore-esque arguments and get most of them from FNC, didn't you watch Bill O'Reilly apologize to Baldwin and admit that Baldwin never said he would move to Canada is Bush won 2000?

At least we know that Kerry was actually in country and fufilled his obligation. He was also one of the men in the line of fire. Bush, on the other hand, if he was even in the military at all, was a flyboy. And a reservist at that.

Nice, Steph. A prompt and thorough smackdown.

Biff, just because someone says something on the radio doesn't make it true.

Nice, Steph. A prompt and thorough smackdown.

Biff, just because someone says something on the radio doesn't make it true.

Thats true...but the snopes site did not debunk what the Dr. said. It just debunked some fake letter.

As for Mr. Baldwin, I did not see that piece.

Regardless...there will be enough on Kerry coming out in the next few months that will prevent him from winning. His presidency would be a disaster for the country.

His presidency would be a disaster for the country.
As if Bush's hasn't been..

Thats true...but the snopes site did not debunk what the Dr. said. It just debunked some fake letter.

As for Mr. Baldwin, I did not see that piece.

Regardless...there will be enough on Kerry coming out in the next few months that will prevent him from winning. His presidency would be a disaster for the country.

got the inside scoop, do ya? I'd say it was more like wishful thinking. Just like my wishful thinking that Bush will admit he and his administration are a bunch of liars that will say anythign to get their way.

How come Tommy Franks can admit that we were wrong about the WMDs and apologize for it but George Bush can't?

Because Tommy Franks isn't a sock puppet?

Oh.

It's basically been debunked, even John McCain came out today and said it was bullshit. None of them actually served with Kerry.

That's not true at all. John McCain did not come out today and say it was bullshit. And even if he did, they had some not too nice things to say about McCain too, 4 years ago, so McCain has a bone to pick with them anyway.

Why don't you link the story from today where McCain says it's bullshit?

Because it's simply not true ... the nerve of some people, posting whatever they want to say expecting people will believe it just cuz they said it's so :rolleyes:

politicians will do anything to get your vote. luckily most of the public has made up their minds. i just did recently. you know, i dont think any of this old stuff even matters. i am interested in policy. not the vietnam war.

where did john mccain say bullshit. that isnt like him.

thats a kerry statagy. he flips and flops all around. his own people in mass. dont even think he believes wat he is saying, only wat people want to hear. thats sad.

Shouldn't being a politician be about making decisions on the people's behalf? Therefore telling them what they want to hear...because...if you convince the majority of people to vote for you, then you're in to represent the majority of the people...

you must be a partisan. look, when you are elected you make the right decision not change positions. for example, telling detriot auto workers u have a half dozen suvs and then the next week telling the sierra club u hate suvs is called telling poeple " what they want to hear" thats not leadership. its called being a coward and a manipulative jerk

it would be great for kerry if he could break a majority in thsi election. the last democrat to do that was , well, jimmy carter in 1976.

and we all now how great he was as president .....NOT!!

That's not true at all. John McCain did not come out today and say it was bullshit. And even if he did, they had some not too nice things to say about McCain too, 4 years ago, so McCain has a bone to pick with them anyway.

Why don't you link the story from today where McCain says it's bullshit?

Because it's simply not true ... the nerve of some people, posting whatever they want to say expecting people will believe it just cuz they said it's so :rolleyes:

Duh.....ok. Next time, before you speak....don't.

McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad

By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer

WASHINGTON - Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.

The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.

"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.

"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.

In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.

McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's "right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not."

McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day — Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.

They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."

Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.

The bottom line, is I seriously doubt the Republicans want to get into a pissing match over war records, Bush would lose on that count, hands down!

Yeah...the last injury caused him to lose two days of service moron and was written at the same time as his bronze star citation. So much for writing it himself:

"Kerry was injured yet again on 13 March 1969, in an action for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt himself):

Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

According to the Boston Globe, this was the only one of Kerry's three Purple Heart injuries that caused him to miss any days of service:

Kerry had been wounded three times and received three Purple Hearts. Asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it. A shrapnel wound in his left arm gave Kerry pain for years. Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds."

where did john mccain say bullshit. that isnt like him.

McCain did not use that exact word. Stephistan was paraphrasing.

However, I think we would all agree that calling something "dishonest and dishonorable" amounts to pretty much the same thing, which is the point that she was making.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/kerry.mccain.ap/index.html

Hmmm their site does not load for me.

As said in another thread....

Some things to consider when using the "Swift boat veterns for truth" people.

1) They are a Political Action Committee. This is mentioned on their site.

2) If they know the record, why don't start stating it? Why is their whole argument based on Kerry releasing his records. The Shrub locks his so why does Kerry have to release his?

3) The veterns themselves will not release their own records.

4) The artwork on the front page was done by these guys: http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/

** Haven't seen it today as it won't load for me. If its the picture of Kerry with the guys and then it changes to 3 guys, it is what I mention **

5) Snopes is far more trustable then any political group.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Oh, and just in case Formal ever finds her way back here, Hoffman, the top military guy behind this has ADMITTED that none of these men actually served with Kerry. Which makes that whole ad a lie:


From: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/kerry.mccain.ap/index.html

The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's.

They EVEN go so far as to call Rassmann, Kerry's whole crew, and I asume the doctor that treated John KErry liars when they assert:

The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.

That provides a hell of enogh of a credibility gap for me!

it would be funny if this bit bush in the ass the way harper's comment claiming that martin supported child porn bit him in the ass...