NationStates Jolt Archive

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39788



Egypt newspaper:
Holocaust a lie
State publication says Jews invented genocide claim to extort the West

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 4, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Aaron Klein
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


Egypt's leading newspaper has published a series of articles that deny the Holocaust, and claim Jews invented "lies of genocide" to extort the West and make possible the establishment of the Jewish state, prompting some Israeli lawmakers to express reservations about allowing Egypt to control security in Gaza after Sharon's withdrawal plan is implemented next year.

Dr. Rif'at Sayyed Ahmad, director of the Jaffa Research Center in Cairo and columnist for Al-Liwaa Al-Islami, Egypt's state-controlled newspaper, published a two-part article, 'The Lie About The Burning of the Jews,' which claims the Holocaust was a Jewish invention.



"The Zionist enterprise on the land of Palestine succeeded by means of lies and myths, from the myth of the 'Chosen People' and the 'Promised Land' to the lie about the burning of the Jews in the Nazi gas chambers during World War II," wrote Ahmad according to a translation by the Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI.

"What interests us here is that this lie [about] the burning of the Jews in the Nazi crematoria has been disseminated throughout the world until our time in order to extort the West and make it easier for the Jews of Europe to hunt [sic] Palestine and establish a state on it, in disregard of the most basic principles of international law and the right of peoples to independent life without occupation. [This lie] was raised [also] so that [the Jews] would receive financial, technological, and economic aid from the West. ...

"This entire situation has turned the Holocaust – that is, Hitler's operation of burning the Jews in gas chambers – into a drawn sword at the necks of historians and serious researchers in the West, and even in the East. At the same time, [the Holocaust] became profitable goods for the Zionist entity. ...

"Dozens of Western laws in the European countries have been changed to protect this false myth of the burning of the Jews. Dozens of curricula have also been changed. Today, it is possible to curse the monotheistic religions, but the 'holocaust' and its lie are above criticism and above opinion, and in Europe it is unapproachable," wrote Ahmad.

Last year, the same newspaper ran a piece that claimed Jews use Christian and Muslim blood to bake matzos for Passover, and state-controlled Egyptian television aired a miniseries depicting "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," an age-old anti-Semitic story that claims Jews run the world by proxy.

Israeli politicians and American Jewish leaders said they are concerned about allowing Egypt, which uses state-controlled media to routinely vilify Israel, to set up a security apparatus along the Gaza border after Sharon's withdrawal in 2005. And they cite Egypt's failure to stop construction of weapons smuggling tunnels from its country into the Rafah refugee camp as proof the country can't be trusted.

"These filthy lies just expose Egypt, which received billions in American aid, for what it is – a supporter of terrorism and a distributor of vicious, dangerous anti-Israel propaganda, just like the PLO" Mort Klein, President of the Zionist Organization of America, told WorldNetDaily.

"We've already witnessed Egyptian violations of its peace treaty with Israel when it allowed the Palestinians to build smuggling tunnels that run from Egypt to Israel. How is Ariel Sharon possibly going to let a country like this bring weapons and soldiers into Gaza?" said Klein.

It should be noted, in the Talmud, the jews continually talk of a "Roman Holocaust" against Jews.

Tales of a Roman Holocaust
Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans.

(Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).


It should be noted that there were not 4 billion allive then, let alone 4 billion jews. There are scracely more than 20 million jews alive today, there were certainly no more than 1 million jews alive in Roman times, at the most.

Anubis disagrees.

Last year, the same newspaper ran a piece that claimed Jews use Christian and Muslim blood to bake matzos for Passover...

Whoa. It's really scary that some people believe this crap.

Eygpt believes lots of screwy things like homosexuality being a bad thing so never trust them as a reliable source.

I wonder if they have any proof.

I wonder if they have any proof.


They've shown motive, the jews wanted sympathy and such.



HERE IS THE PROOF!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0939484110/qid=1091635261/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-1652329-6682533?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry
by Walter N. Sanning


The book details what really happened to the jews (Most moved to the USA, Australia, and South America) It shows immigration charts, data, tables, figures, etc.


Note that in 1933 the jews counted their world population as 15,800,000. Around 1946 they counted it was 15,100,000.

Seeing as how many Germans died from allied terror bombing of german cities, (Dresden, Hamburg, etc) it is very likely at least 700,000 jews died from the bombing of european cities.



Scroll down, see the Auschwitz swimming pool.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

http://www.thetruthatlast.com/books/the_dissolution_of_eastern_european_jewry.html



The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry, by Walter Sanning. He presents a scholarly study of what actually happened to the Jews of Europe and finds that millions fled both before and during the war to Britain, America, Argentina etc. His population findings leave no room for any holocaust. His figures are so precise that they cannot be refuted. 230 pages, many charts and figures. $9.95.

That is 100% absolute bullshit.

What's even more so is this:

Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans.

Click this for Gitten 57b (http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_57.html#PARTb)

And here is 58a (http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_58.html)

You're a liar and an antisemitic piece of shyte.

So is there any explantion for how this massive conspiracy came to be? :rolleyes:

Holocaust is a lie?
Ok, i'll try to keep that in mind

That is 100% absolute bullshit.

What's even more so is this:



Click this for Gitten 57b (http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_57.html#PARTb)

And here is 58a (http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_58.html)

You're a liar and an antisemitic piece of shyte.


You're giving a false translation: I can tell you why

Talmud

"Every Goy who studies Talmud, and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die." (Sanhedryn 59 a. Aboda Zora 8-6: Szagiga 13.)


"One should and must make false oath, when the goys ask if our books contain anything against them. Then we are bound to state on oath that there is nothing like that." (Szaalot-Utszabot. The book of Jore d'a 17.)


"If a jew be called to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he only ought to give a false explanation, that might not, by behaving differently, become an accomplice in betraying this information. Who will violate this order shall be put to death." (Libbre David, 37.)




goy (goi) n., pl. goy·im (goi“¹m) or goys. Offensive. Used as a disparaging term for one who is not a Jew. [Yiddish, from Hebrew gôy, nation, one who is not Jewish, non-Jew, Jew ignorant of the Jewish religion.] --goy“ish adj.

"Every Goy who studies Talmud, and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die." (Sanhedryn 59 a. Aboda Zora 8-6: Szagiga 13.)


Again, liar. None of the Talmud uses the word "goy". It is a Yiddish word, not a Hebrew word, and none of the Talmud is written in Yiddish. This is what it says:

A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our inheritance, not theirs. Then why is this not included in the Noachian laws? — On the reading morasha [an inheritance] he steals it; on the reading me'orasah [betrothed], he is guilty as one who violates a betrothed maiden, who is stoned. An objection is raised: R. Meir used to say. Whence do we know that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest? From the verse, [Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:] which, if man do, he shall live in them. Priests, Levites, and Israelites are not mentioned, but men: hence thou mayest learn that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest! — That refers to their own seven laws.

Talmud is a series of arguments, not an absolute.

"One should and must make false oath, when the goys ask if our books contain anything against them. Then we are bound to state on oath that there is nothing like that." (Szaalot-Utszabot. The book of Jore d'a 17.)

We have a very clear law that says to not bear false witness. Also, there is no book of "Jore d'a" in Talmud, rendering your quote another falsehood.

"If a jew be called to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he only ought to give a false explanation, that might not, by behaving differently, become an accomplice in betraying this information. Who will violate this order shall be put to death." (Libbre David, 37.)

There is no "Libre David" in Talmud. Once again, you're making it up.

:rolleyes:

Again, liar. None of the Talmud uses the word "goy". It is a Yiddish word, not a Hebrew word, and none of the Talmud is written in Yiddish. This is what it says:

A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our inheritance, not theirs. Then why is this not included in the Noachian laws? — On the reading morasha [an inheritance] he steals it; on the reading me'orasah [betrothed], he is guilty as one who violates a betrothed maiden, who is stoned. An objection is raised: R. Meir used to say. Whence do we know that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest? From the verse, [Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:] which, if man do, he shall live in them. Priests, Levites, and Israelites are not mentioned, but men: hence thou mayest learn that even a heathen who studies the Torah is as a High Priest! — That refers to their own seven laws.

Talmud is a series of arguments, not an absolute.



We have a very clear law that says to not bear false witness. Also, there is no book of "Jore d'a" in Talmud, rendering your quote another falsehood.



There is no "Libre David" in Talmud. Once again, you're making it up.

:rolleyes:

You're just a jewish liar attempting to cover for your book's hatred of "Goyim".

You claim books don't exist, and that passages say things other than what they say.



THE PROTOCOLS
OF THE LEARNED ELDERS
OF ZION

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/proof.htm

You're a liar and an antisemitic piece of shyte.[/QUOTE]

I second that. Piece of shyte.

THE PROTOCOLS
OF THE LEARNED ELDERS
OF ZION


O for the love of pete ....

You are now ignored for being a neo-nazi fuck-up troll. Your future "messages" will not be seen by me and if I were a mod, I'd delete/ban your ass so fast your computer would smoke.

I suggest pulling your head out of your ass and stop trusting Christian Zionist sites and stop quoting from nukeisrael.com. Nobody has to teach you Talmud, jack-ass, as it's available for all to read who wants to read it.

You don't want to discuss it, though, you only want to spread your fear and hatred of Jews.

Gee ... the second person I've ignored. How liberating.

Germany lost the war, hitler (I refuse to give his name a capital letter) put a bullet through his failed head and the 3rd Reich collapsed. Yet still we have to put up with fucking morons spreading anti-Semitic doctrine like this fuck. Seriously shut up, I could just ignore this but the horrible thing about anti-Semitism is that is spreads like the plague, all the fuckheads on earth start believing it and then it can start to actually manifest itself physically. So let me be the first to advocate actual physical war against anti Semites. As an atheist I don't give a shit about the religion I do however stand against racism and prejudice of any kind. Humanity must move forward in step or rip itself apart, illogical and irrational hatreds of any race of origin is a step back into the dark ages of human history. Welcome to the age of reason and enlightenment please endeavor to use your mind before writing gibberish.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39788



Egypt newspaper:
Holocaust a lie
State publication says Jews invented genocide claim to extort the West



Well it shows you that stupid hateful people exist in any land.

I automatically write off anybody who makes that claim.

I had a great-uncle that liberated a camp and if you could have seen him while he talked about it, there is no way this was made up.

You racist scum just make me so sick. There are enough "aryan" witnesses that testified what happened. Yes, its unbelievable that someone could do that, but it happened.
The stupid claim that there was no residue etc. should be given a moment of common sense. The concentration camps that still exist as reminders for the horror are all museums. Thousands of people visit them. But of course it would be sensible to leave the poison still in the rooms so that every visitor gains a healthy dose of it... :headbang:

wow... so all those camps with gas showers were made to further the conspiracy and jewish people just fled europe because they wanted to?

You racist scum just make me so sick. There are enough "aryan" witnesses that testified what happened. Yes, its unbelievable that someone could do that, but it happened.
The stupid claim that there was no residue etc. should be given a moment of common sense. The concentration camps that still exist as reminders for the horror are all museums. Thousands of people visit them. But of course it would be sensible to leave the poison still in the rooms so that every visitor gains a healthy dose of it... :headbang:


The poison, if you knew anything about it, does not last for 60 years!

You're an idiot!


Watch this documentary by a jewish historian (David Cole) Who agrees the holocaust didn't happen.


Truth Behind The Gates of Auschwitz
http://resistance.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=25

wow... so all those camps with gas showers were made to further the conspiracy and jewish people just fled europe because they wanted to?

You betcha! Not to mention all the stories and accounts by survivors (including non-Jewish prisoners), testimony by camp guards, thousands of accounts by US and Russian soldiers who liberated the camps .... all made up and furthered just so we Jews can get sympathy.

It's a conspiracy of biblical proportions!

:rolleyes:

The poison, if you knew anything about it, does not last for 60 years!

You're an idiot!

Thank you for reminding me that they were just opened today and not some fifty years ago.

Oh yes, you provided a link to a obviously biased site that is in the bed with the White Power movement, that surely add credibility to your claim.

Thank you for reminding me that they were just opened today and not some fifty years ago.

Cyanide dissipates hours after use, at the most.


Zyklon B is of the cyanide family


Hydrogen Cyanide dissipates into non-lethal amounts after about 30 seconds.

They've shown motive, the jews wanted sympathy and such.
I have motive for strapping nazis to a chair and giving them a frontal lobotomy, doesn't mean that I've done it though.

So what you are telling me is that the "expert" did resaerch to prove his point about the holocaust lie that has no scientific value whatsoever. Now that is going to help...

If the holocaust did not happen then how do you explain the huge number of individuals who right after the second world war reported that same holocaust did happen? Were they all involved in a conspiracy? How about the jews found by the allied forces in the concentration camps? The mass graves? The wagonloads of jews who went to the concentration camps and were never heard from again? The stories of the survivors, both jew and non-jew, were all a figment of the imagination? :rolleyes:

You think that because that historian is jewish he must be speaking the truth? lol

Raise your hand if you are not a Nazi and you think that the Egyptians are just doing this because they are anti-semetic.

*raises hand*

God-damn. I thought we had people of alot of political affiliations here, but holocaust deniers? AAAAH.

First of, correct me if I'm wrong but the Talmud is a series of arguments and debates between various rabbinical scholars and doesn't carry the weight of absolute truth ascribed to the Scriptures.

Secondly, the Protocols are a proven Czarist hoax, so stop trying to use them to prove your silly ideology.

Seriously folks.. if the mass graves and the massive piles of skeletal Jewish corpses don't convince you that systematic genocide took place, then wtf do you want?

God-damn. I thought we had people of alot of political affiliations here, but holocaust deniers? AAAAH.

First of, correct me if I'm wrong but the Talmud is a series of arguments and debates between various rabbinical scholars and doesn't carry the weight of absolute truth ascribed to the Scriptures.

Secondly, the Protocols are a proven Czarist hoax, so stop trying to use them to prove your silly ideology.

Seriously folks.. if the mass graves and the massive piles of skeletal Jewish corpses don't convince you that systematic genocide took place, then wtf do you want?


There was a typhus epidemic sweeping europe at the time of WW2. The few 100,000 jews who died (As did others die) died from typhus.

God-damn. I thought we had people of alot of political affiliations here, but holocaust deniers? AAAAH.

First of, correct me if I'm wrong but the Talmud is a series of arguments and debates between various rabbinical scholars and doesn't carry the weight of absolute truth ascribed to the Scriptures.
?


http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud.htm#01


The Talmud is Judaism's Holiest Book
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

The supremacy of the Talmud over the Bible in the Israeli state may also be seen in the case of the Black Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopians have more knowledge of the Old Testament than the Israelis. However, their religion is so ancient it pre-dates the Scribes' Talmud, of which the Ethiopians have no knowledge. According to the N.Y. Times of Sept. 29, 1992, p.4:

"The problem is that Ethiopian Jewish tradition goes no further than the Bible or Torah; the later Talmud and other commentaries that form the basis of modern traditions never came their way."

Because they don't traffic in Talmudic traditions, the Black Ethiopian Jews are discriminated against and have been forbidden by the Zionists to perform marriages, funerals and other services in the Israeli state.

Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik is regarded as one of the most influential rabbis of the 20th century, the "unchallenged leader" of Orthodox Judaism and the top international authority on halakha (Jewish religious law). Soloveitchik was responsible for instructing and ordaining more than 2,000 rabbis, "an entire generation" of Jewish leadership.

N.Y. Times religion reporter Ari Goldman described the basis of the rabbi's authority:

"Soloveitchik came from a long line of distinguished Talmudic scholars ... Until his early 20s, he devoted himself almost exclusively to the study of the Talmud ... He came to Yeshiva University's Elchanan Theological Seminary where he remained the pre-eminent teacher in the Talmud ... He held the title of Leib Merkin professor of Talmud ... sitting with his feet crossed in front of a table bearing an open volume of the Talmud." (N.Y. Times, April 10, 1993, p. 38).

Nowhere does Goldman refer to Soloveitchik's knowledge of the Bible as the basis for being one of the top world authorities on Jewish law. The rabbi's credentials are all predicated upon his mastery of the Talmud. All other studies are clearly secondary. Britain's Jewish Chronicle of March 26, 1993 states that in religious school (yeshiva), Jews are "devoted to the Talmud to the exclusion of everything else." The Jewish Scribes claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions Moses gave them in oral form. These had not yet been written down in Jesus' time. Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and those who taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because the Talmud nullifies the teachings of the Holy Bible. Shmuel Safrai in The Literature of the Sages Part One (p.164), points out that in chapters 4 and 5 of the Talmud's Gittin Tractate, the Talmud nullifes the Biblical teaching concerning money-lending: "Hillel decreed the prozbul for the betterment of the world.' The 'prozbul' is a legal fiction which allows debts to be collected after the Sabbatical year and it was Hillel's intention thereby to overcome the fear that money-lenders had of losing their money."

The famous warning of Jesus Christ about the tradition of men that voids Scripture (Mark 7:1-13), which is used against Catholics by Protestants, is in fact, a direct reference to the Talmud, or more specifically, the forerunner of the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during Christ's lifetime, before being committed to writing. Mark. chapter 7, from verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord's pointed condemnation of the Mishnah.

Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the widespread Judeo-Christian notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of Judaism. But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of rabbis, not God.

The Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their supreme law, and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said, void the laws of God, not uphold them. As readers of Talmud, we know this to be true.

Jewish scholar Hyam Maccoby, in "Judaism on Trial," quotes Rabbi Yehiel ben Joseph:

"Further, without the Talmud, we would not be able to understand passages in the Bible ... God has handed this authority to the sages and tradition is a necessity as well as scripture. The Sages also made enactments of their own ... anyone who does not study the Talmud cannot understand Scripture."

There is a small Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to eschew Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites, a most hated and severely persecuted group within Judaism.

To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two versions, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud is regarded as the authoritative version: "The authority of the Babylonian Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt the former is decisive." (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to Kabbalah: A Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40).

This study is based on the Jewish-authorized Babylonian Talmud. We have published herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up for yourself.

So what you are telling me is that the "expert" did resaerch to prove his point about the holocaust lie that has no scientific value whatsoever. Now that is going to help...
So what you are telling me is that the testimony of the experts, the soldiers, the war crimes tribunals, the historians and the survivors of the holocaust themselves have less bearing than a couple of revisionist historians?

God-damn. I thought we had people of alot of political affiliations here, but holocaust deniers? AAAAH.
You haven't been here long have you?

Oh I've been here awhile on different nations. I suppose it's just because I've only recently been screwing around on the General forum.

Oh I've been here awhile on different nations. I suppose it's just because I've only recently been screwing around on the General forum.
Well, the number of extreme wackjobs has been down recently, but there was a time you couldn't go a couple of days without seeing a dumb thread like this.

So what you are telling me is that the testimony of the experts, the soldiers, the war crimes tribunals, the historians and the survivors of the holocaust themselves have less bearing than a couple of revisionist historians?

I should do sarcasm tags everytime, should i? From my earlier post my viewpoints come through quite clear.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud.htm#01


And another hateful bigot ignored.

*poof*

You betcha! Not to mention all the stories and accounts by survivors (including non-Jewish prisoners), testimony by camp guards, thousands of accounts by US and Russian soldiers who liberated the camps .... all made up and furthered just so we Jews can get sympathy.

It's a conspiracy of biblical proportions!

:rolleyes:
not to mention the records of the nazis themselves. the anal retentive bastards kept lots of records.

To VoteEarly and Decisive Action:

Your false quotes have already been debunked.

http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart4.msnw

CLAIM (58)
Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by he Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).

RESPONSE (1)
No one has ever claimed that the Talmud is infallible or inspired. It isn't that kind of "holy book". It contains human errors, just like Supreme Court decisions do (see above). Obviously, this is one.
(Royce Buehler)

RESPONSE (2)
These passages are part of agadic passages which are literary flourishes. The exact quotes are as follows:

"The voice is the voice of Jacob, and the hands are the hands of Esau"; the [first] voice refers to Hadrian Caesar who in Alexandria of Egypt killed sixty multitudes upon sixty multitudes, twice as many as left Egypt [at the time of the Exodus]; the [second] voice [of weeping] of Jacob refers to Vespasian Caesar who in the city of Betar killed 400 multitudes, and some say 4000 multitudes, and 'the hands are the hands of Esau' refers to the wicked Empire [of Rome] which destroyed our House [i.e. the temple] and burned our sanctuary and exiled us from our land; another interpretation that can be attached to this verse is ...."

".... there were 400 synagogues in the great city of Betar and in each one there were 400 teachers of children and each one taught 400 children .... [and the enemy] wrapped them in their scrolls and set them on fire".

It is clear we are dealing with literary flourishes and poetical forms of expressing the magnitude and pain of a great tragedy and not with evidence of a documentary nature based on painstaking research to which we have become accustomed in modern times.
(Michael Gruda)

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/Response1.html

[QUOTE][i]CLAIM
"Every goy who studies the Talmud and every Jew who who helps him in it, ought to die." - Sanhedryn, 59a, Aboda Zora 8-6, Szagiga

RESPONSE
The quote from Sanhedrin does say that a gentile may not study torah but the other sources do not exist. There is no practical death penalty for this offense the penalty stated is only a term of speech stated in order to indicate the severity of the sin. A gentile may study the laws regarding the 7 Noahide commandments as stated ibid. and he will merit great everlasting bliss for this, however he may not study the laws of Judaism. The basic reason for prohibiting the study of Torah is because it is a special covenant between G-d and his chosen people, any one who is not affiliated with the chosen people is regarded a thief. Rashi ibid. E.S.

CLAIM
"To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if they knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly." - Libbre David 37.

RESPONSE
Total balderdash, there is no such statement at all, and there is no such book. E.S.

CLAIM
"If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death." Libbre David 37.

RESPONSE
As explained above, there is no such book.

CLAIM
"A Jew should and must make a false oath when the goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."-Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17.

RESPONSE
This is a forgery. The word "Sehelot Uteshubot" means Talmudic responsa, there is no such book at all. Besides, there is nothing in the Torah which may cause disturbance to a gentile. What can have been written is that one may take an oath that there is nothing against gentiles in Jewish law as it is a true oath. E.S.

http://groups.msn.com/Mishpocha/thetalmudpart1.msnw

CLAIM (1)
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

RESPONSE
That's not true. The Torah - the Five Books of Moses is Judaism's "holiest" book, however it has two parts, a written part (which is what Christians are familiar with) and an Oral part (which the early Christians abandoned). The Oral part, or "Oral Law" is analogous to be a body of jurispudence and procedures to accompany the written law and is understood to have been handed down from Moses around the 1200's BCE. It was expressly forbidden to write it down because it was thought that any such attempt would be incomplete but after much debate, it became apparent that the only way to preserve it would be to write it down and this was done between 70CE and 200 CE in the form of the Mishna and the supplementary Tosefta. Later the Gemara was added as additional material and was written between 200CE and 500CE. Finally around 500 CE this and other material were included in the encyclopedic Talmud consisting of 5,894 pages and there are many further works in addition to these as well.

The point of saying this is that in the absence of any interpretation via an oral tradition, it is difficult to understand what was meant. For example, the classic "eye for an eye" quote (Exodus 21:24 and Leviticus 24:17-22) which Christians interpret literally has no such interpretation in Judaism. No Jewish court has ever blinded or otherwise inflicted physical injury as revenge or retribution. The phrase is interpreted to mean what the perpetrator of a crime deserves, not what he should get. Another example is that despite the existence of capital punishment in the Hebrew Bible, Jewish courts rarely issued the death penalty as extremely strict conditions were imposed on who was considered valid witnesses and other requirements which were difficult to meet in practice.

Other examples proving the existence of the Oral Law within the Bible relate to the fact that many terms, procedures, rights and responsibilites are assumed to be common knowledge within the text. A common expression is "as I have commanded you" but it doesn't say anywhere what the command was, except that it known from the Oral part of the Bible.

The Talmud derives its authority from the Torah on which it is based.

(The entire document is there.)

Lastly, I'd be interested in seeing the source for VoteEarly's Jewish population statistics for 1946- and also the evidence that the nonexistent books actually do exist.

Oh yeah, one last question. The title of this thread says "Egyptian experts". I'm curious as to exactly what Dr. Ahmad is an expert in.

Holocaust denial, maybe?

gods-damnit, im sick of all these neo-nazi anti-semitic idiots who dont understand statistics. firstly, you should not be using WORLD statistics for jewish populations, but EUROPEAN statistics, which should date from 1931, 1941, and 1951 (as these would be the dates of the relevant census'). they should be incorperated with immigration records as well. what you people have read is nothing but a clever manipulation of statistics, as well as some down-right lies. before WW2, there were 10 million jews in europe. less than 4 million survived the holocaust. 6 million deaths of 1 race would not have been caused by the allied bombing campaigns, as it represents a full tenth of the total war deaths, (close to half of all deaths in the war are accounted for by russian soldiers and civilians) it simply isnt possible for the allied campaigns to have caused to many deaths in such a short period of time, given that they were primarily targetting military locations.

Anyone who seriously up-holds the protocols of the elders of zion is doubly an idiot. it has been discredited enough times over, with us having to argue with you about it. give it up. there is no jewish conspiracy, there never was, tho they've been oppressed enough for me to think they deserve a chunk of power for once, so it can be seen that they wont use it to take over the world. i also dont blame them for attempting to develop WMD's, or for using such harsh tactics, as they are still in the same position they always have been, although with fewer enemies and oppressors. so put simply SHUT UP WITH THIS GODS-DAMN BULLSHIT! ITS COMPLETE CRAP AND ALWAYS WILL BE! ANYONE WHO DOESNT REALISE THIS SHOULD BE SHOT FOR STUPIDITY, BECAUSE THERE REALLY REALLY ISNT A CONSPIRACY, OK??

A simple question to anyone who believes that the Holocaust is a hoax - why didn't any of the Nazis tried at Nuremberg say so? They were quick enough to defy the validity of the court!
If they'd said that it was all a Communist lie, most people in the West would have believed them.
Instead, we had that stupid "I was just obeying orders" defence...

If it was all a conspiracy a few facts make little sense.

1. Were all the court records and accounts of the Nuremberg Trials forged (and the other trials that were not held at Nuremberg)? If none of this happened why didn't the Nazi's who were put on trial claim so, surely if they were there they could provide evidence to prove this.

2. Why were the Nazi's so intent on destroying work camps and their populations as the Soviets encroached, not to mention their quick destruction of the death camps (All were in Poland), what, were they afraid the Soviet Union would use them as barracks?

3. During late '44 when the Germans were in full retreat after Bagration, the Southern Offensives, and Overlord, why were so many of their locomotives and boxcars dedicating to move the populations of these work and concentration camps from Poland to the Reich Proper. Surely after the massive destruction the US 8th and 9th Air Forces and the RAF Bomber Command had wreaked upon the German rail system and marshaling yards they would want every bit of their transportation available, so if it wasn't transporting these Jews and other undesirables, were was it going?

4. How does it explain the post-war testimonies of former Gestapo and Schutzstaffel officials as to how Jews were handled in the pre-war years. Or by the people who weren't rounded up but knew someone who was.

5. The Nazi Records themselves, they were very meticilous in their record keeping, and much of it survived intact (Becuase it was hidden away in Gestapo files, which weren't hit during the war becuase they were never pinpointed), were all these forged in the few years available.

6. I do not believe your census is correct, and if it is, it is misleading. IIRC from Hitler's Willing Executioners the population of Jewry in the world was 18,000,000. By war's end it was down to 10,000,000 (2,000,000 is attributed to death's in combat in every force, the rest are to the Holocaust).

7. Poland in 1939 had 5,000,000 Jews, the largest Jewish population in Europe, less then a million were counted post-war, today becuase of immigration to Israel less then 400,000 are left.

7. Poland in 1939 had 5,000,000 Jews, the largest Jewish population in Europe, less then a million were counted post-war, today becuase of immigration to Israel less then 400,000 are left.

Actually, according to http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html, Poland's Jewish population is around 8,000.

Actually, according to http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html, Poland's Jewish population is around 8,000.

Perhaps my quote was post war and I interpreted it wrong, but it would appear you are correct, it's 8,000 not 400,000.

This seems like a good postwar link, too. http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/staticpages/663.html#Top

Edit: It has a page for prewar statistics, too.
http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/StaticPages/69.html

You're a liar and an antisemitic piece of shyte.

I second that. Piece of shyte.[/QUOTE]
amen VoteEarly is ****

VoteEarly, I would not be mad if this happens to you :sniper:. You piss me off you racist POS. Just tell me that the Holocaust was a hoax when you see my 1st cousin's Grandma who survived the Holocaust, her father and 5 of her 7 siblings didn't live, they were murdered by morons like yourself. Her future husband also survived, but his 1st wife and 2 young children didn't. I want you to tell me why I should believe some article in a government controled racist newspaper that is run by a hostile government to Israel. Now go with your racist buddies to Waco so the FBI can torch you.

Mel Gibson's father is a holocaust denyer.... and president Nixon had a hedgehog named Frank, aside from that shut up with the holocasut denying, although I do think the Jews have really stretched this point out too far, I mean if a black guy calls people racist cuz they don't get their way people just shake their heads, if a jew claims people are anti-semetic he'll win a sue them (that isn't supposed to be makin fun of the whole jews are good with money thing)

although I do think the Jews have really stretched this point out too far, I mean if a black guy calls people racist cuz they don't get their way people just shake their heads, if a jew claims people are anti-semetic he'll win a sue them (that isn't supposed to be makin fun of the whole jews are good with money thing)

Are you suggesting that no accusations of racism or anti-semitism are in fact grounded in fact? Furthermore, what does the issue of whether Jews are oversensitive (or dishonest, as you suggest) in identifying antisemitism have to do with the Holocaust? Are you implying that the Holocaust is exploited by the Jewish community, like the anti-semitism accusation?

The other thing to recall is proximity to trauma. Slavery (although not its after-effects) ended 200 years ago. The Holocaust, in which 1 of every 3 Jews on earth was murdered, happened just over 60 years ago. To Jews who lost relatives, friends, and their civilization and home, it remains an important- and present- reality.

No! They're back. We fought so hard to get rid of Aryan Tribes and Schorgenland and now the neonazis are returning.

goy (goi) n., pl. goy·im (goi“¹m) or goys. Offensive. Used as a disparaging term for one who is not a Jew. [Yiddish, from Hebrew gôy, nation, one who is not Jewish, non-Jew, Jew ignorant of the Jewish religion.] --goy“ish adj.


Well, I suppose that I can't change your beliefs, but I will tell all of the other readers(who hopefully have open minds) that "goy" is not a derogatory term. It means "Nation" and refers to someone who is not Jewish.

Is someone bad because they live in a different nation? Most people don't think so.

I would like to know where from this definition comes.

Anyone here ever seen Dr. Death?

There was a typhus epidemic sweeping europe at the time of WW2. The few 100,000 jews who died (As did others die) died from typhus.Is Possible that the "mass-graves" presented as Proof are mostly not Jewish.
"Mass-Graves" pictures have been presented several times in history...but many times there was only fortune cementery...

Even the Baghdad mortuary was presented as "mass-graves...its simply good-old wartime "miss-information"

Are you implying that the Holocaust is exploited by the Jewish community.
Absolutely.

Slavery (although not its after-effects) ended 200 years ago. The Holocaust, in which 1 of every 3 Jews on earth was murdered, happened just over 60 years ago. To Jews who lost relatives, friends, and their civilization and home, it remains an important- and present- reality....competing with the Black comunity? arent we?
for welfare dollars?
After all we do give more welfate to the tiny country of Israel..than all the Black countries combined.

This thread only lends credence to my theory that Neo-Nazis exist for the sole purpose of making us feel good about our debating skills (since its never too difficult to out-debate them, and they usually just whine about your biased sources). I miss the good old days, when people like Fascist White States and Nazi Deutschland Axis just bitched about white power, and separating the races. Then, everyone could join the fun of shredding them to pieces. Now, some anti-Semites and general conspiracy nuts might actually believe these people...the very thought makes me shudder. Oh well.

VoteEarly and Decisive Action,
Its times like these that I curse the official NS policy of tolerance towards extreme political views. I wish we could DEAT you two so fast it would make your empty heads spin. Unfortunately, we can't. So I'll just ignore you two, and encourage everyone else to do the same. See you guys later, like on CNN when you manage to piss off an entire city and get yourselves killed.

VE has his right to his opinion but he's making an ass of himself.

If you need proof that the Jews aren't conspiring to take over the world, consider the case of Alexander Berkman, who was an anarcho-communist and thus opposed both government and capitalism. How could he be greedy or interested in world domination?

As I can't speak nor read Yiddish or Hebrew - I can't say who is right or wrong on those accounts. As for the holocaust being a lie..... plain and simple.....Bull!

My father fought in WWII and saw some of those camps. He had nightmares about them until he died. He also told me (and my brothers and sisters), we had no idea how good we had it living here.

I can't imagine what horrors/pain that those of the holocaust went through and now you want to say they are lying. Haven't the vicitims of the holocaust and their families been put through enough without you spreading lies about them.

...competing with the Black comunity? arent we?
for welfare dollars?
After all we do give more welfate to the tiny country of Israel..than all the Black countries combined.

I don't recall mentioning anything about money, or "competition". Why don't you connect the dots for those of us who can't keep up? What are you trying to say? Also, if you believe the Holocaust is exploited by the Jewish community, how about providing some examples?

Oh, and in regards to CrisMar's comment- a lot of the Talmud is actually written in Aramaic. But then again, most people can't read that, either.

I think the Egyptian experts are full of shit.

This thread litterally makes me want to vomit... the scary thing is, I feel violently strong zionist tendencies when I read about denyers... and that really terrifies me.

This thread litterally makes me want to vomit... the scary thing is, I feel violently strong zionist tendencies when I read about denyers... and that really terrifies me.

I think it depends what you mean by "violently strong". Do you simply mean "very strong"? Or rather, the urge to be violent in the name of Zionism? I'd say the first is fine. The latter is considerably more concerning.

Oh, I'm pro israeli existance, anti settlement, pro-seperation of synagogue and state, anti-wall, anti terrorist... I'm also a realist, but that doesn't make me want those things less. But neo-nazis remind me of why israel was really created... and I feel like.. well...knifing something. Sigh.

As I can't speak nor read Yiddish or Hebrew - I can't say who is right or wrong on those accounts. As for the holocaust being a lie..... plain and simple.....Bull!

My father fought in WWII and saw some of those camps. He had nightmares about them until he died. He also told me (and my brothers and sisters), we had no idea how good we had it living here.

I can't imagine what horrors/pain that those of the holocaust went through and now you want to say they are lying. Haven't the vicitims of the holocaust and their families been put through enough without you spreading lies about them.

My Great-Uncle seemed to deal with it better well he drank but it was said he drank before the war.

As he once said (not exact) "Normal people tend to have issues with killing. Even in war, many will have issues about it after. When I saw those camps, it justified every German I killed. At the time I thought I didn't kill enough of them."

I kind of think he had nightmares as well. He was one that would never admit it though.....

It should be noted, in the Talmud, the jews continually talk of a "Roman Holocaust" against Jews.

Tales of a Roman Holocaust
Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans.

(Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).


It should be noted that there were not 4 billion allive then, let alone 4 billion jews. There are scracely more than 20 million jews alive today, there were certainly no more than 1 million jews alive in Roman times, at the most.

Like many other number in talmud and the bible. Those are symbolic numbers.

Moreover, if you consider that the people killed weren't able to have children, grand-children ... the number are even perhaps under estimated. This point of view is suggested in the first murder of the bible when Cain kills Abel, it is said that "THEIR blood were screaming to God". The plural (in hebrew version) refers to the descendants Abel could have had.

Again, liar. None of the Talmud uses the word "goy". It is a Yiddish word, not a Hebrew word, and none of the Talmud is written in Yiddish.

Actually, goy do exists in hebrew. Jews call themselves 'Goy kadosh' (something like holy nation though it is skewed translation). 'Goy' simply means "nation, people".

Nothing offensive: someone called goy is someone of the 70 nations by opposition to the 12 hebrew tibes.

They've shown motive, the jews wanted sympathy and such.



HERE IS THE PROOF!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0939484110/qid=1091635261/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-1652329-6682533?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry
by Walter N. Sanning


The book details what really happened to the jews (Most moved to the USA, Australia, and South America) It shows immigration charts, data, tables, figures, etc.

If I were you, I wouldn't believe everything written in books.

I know a woman who was at Dashau and she still has the tatoo on her wrist. She has lot her entire family in camps.
Go find someone who was in camps and tell him eye to eye what he lived was a lie if you have the nerve.

THE PROTOCOLS
OF THE LEARNED ELDERS
OF ZION

You speak of the most known antisemit propaganda book ever written.
Listen to the specialist anywhere on the web.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud.htm#01


The Talmud is Judaism's Holiest Book
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book ... [a lot of useless ramble]

False ! The only book refered has holy are the five first books of when they are hand written on parchment by a scribe; no printed book and certainly not the talmud or the mishnah.

For those who know what they are taking about, mishna is simply a compilation on mnemotechnics to how to apply what is demanded in the bible and the talmud is the exegetic part of that (to understand what was the intent of the framer).

Quoting Talmud or Mishnah without having studied the debates around the subject; of those people, treaty Avodah Zara says that they participates in destroying the world.

Of course it's quite absurd to claim the Jews invented the holocaust. In some countries (Belgiumf f.i.) the claim itself is illegal, which -come to think of it- happens to hit about the same level of absurdity.

They did a) commercialize and b) misuse it, though. Even a number of Jews think about it this way. Have a look here:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

marketing the holocaust
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Of course it's quite absurd to claim the Jews invented the holocaust.
[snip]
>They did a) commercialize and b) misuse it, though. Even a number of Jews
> think about it this way. Have a look here:
>http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
This is a link to a book describing how the Germans funnelled the wealth they stole from the Jews through Swiss Banks, yes?
How is this Jews commercialising the Holocaust?

Oh, for the pair who believe that "the Holocaust is a myth" what evidence would it take to change your minds?
You see, there's so much, it would take several lifetimes to present it all so it would make things simpler for everybody if you just told us what evidence you require, and we present that.

It's creepy how many of us know eyewitnesses. Mind you I wish my eyewitness was a returned serviceman! No, the father of one of my childhood friends was a German in one of the police battalions - who was proud of what he'd done.
Thank God he's dead...

It's simply disgusting to see that people still believe in that primitive, horrible bullshit invented by Fascists and Tzarists as a way to blind the masses with pointless hatered.

That said, I think that the right-winged, pro-capitalist Israeli establishment misused the Holocaust and antisemitism for political ends, which has the reverse effect of what was intended. This tendancy actually increases antisemitism and is quite disgusting by itself.

And genocide happened many times before and after the holocaust. And the (capitalist and stalinist) world powers simply don't care.

But denying these war crimes is blindly believing the lies of the Tzar and his modern equivalents. Yes, this includes denying the crimes of Stalinism as well...

And I'm an Israeli resident. I am against the Wall, against the occupation and opression of the Palestinian masses and against the nationalist extremists from both sides (first and foremost Sharon and Arafat and their gangs) who resort to lies and falsifications to justify their (unjust) existance. And I acknoledge the Nakaba - that is, the fact that the Israeli army drove hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes in 1948. No one is pure, not even the Zionists.

And the commercialization of the Holocaust by the Hollywood industry is a crime all by itself.

It's simply disgusting to see that people still believe in that primitive, horrible bullshit invented by Fascists and Tzarists as a way to blind the masses with pointless hatered.

That said, I think that the right-winged, pro-capitalist Israeli establishment misused the Holocaust and antisemitism for political ends, which has the reverse effect of what was intended. This tendancy actually increases antisemitism and is quite disgusting by itself.

Some people certainly have been further enraged by this illusion that Jews and right-wingers have pushed the holocaust for all it's worth, but note the word illusion. We cannot deny that some people have used the Holocaust to further their means which may have not been moral, but they make a very tiny minority of people.

And genocide happened many times before and after the holocaust. And the (capitalist and stalinist) world powers simply don't care.

It was the mass-production of death on a level of a factory that horrified the world, nothing like it has been seen since or before. They had plans, factories of death, storage dumps (concentration camps), they had even set down a law that decided who was Jewish and who wasn't. It was this that both frightened and horrified the world.

And the commercialization of the Holocaust by the Hollywood industry is a crime all by itself.

I disagree on most points, movies like Schindlers List and In Memory of the Camps are needed to keep the memory alive of this attempted genocide. They are also needed to show the triumph of humanity (such as Schindler's List), but they are sometimes overdone (Uprising was one example, it was simply horrid).

So I'll just ignore you two, and encourage everyone else to do the same.

No, no and no! Nazis and holocaustdeniers should not be ignored and be spreading thier propaganda unchallanged. If there is none who critizise them there will be more naive people that believe them. You can't kill it with shutting up but letting them speak.

Therefor I say that everyone should keep these guys off from mthier ignore list on the perpose that they shall not spread thier propaganda unchallanged. And the faster it gets challanged the better.

Altho, feel free to critizise my view on this.

No, no and no! Nazis and holocaustdeniers should not be ignored and be spreading thier propaganda unchallanged. If there is none who critizise them there will be more naive people that believe them. You can't kill it with shutting up but letting them speak.

Therefor I say that everyone should keep these guys off from mthier ignore list on the perpose that they shall not spread thier propaganda unchallanged. And the faster it gets challanged the better.

Altho, feel free to critizise my view on this.

I agree. At one time, I was really close to losing my temper and ignored someone. Well, I soon realized the idiocy in this, and unignored them.

It's the equivilant to covering your ears when someone's talking :p

I disagree on most points, movies like Schindlers List and In Memory of the Camps are needed to keep the memory alive of this attempted genocide. They are also needed to show the triumph of humanity (such as Schindler's List), but they are sometimes overdone (Uprising was one example, it was simply horrid).

I actually liked Uprising. It certainly could have been done better (the fact that it was a made-for-TV-movie didn't help it), but I'd be interested in you explaining some of the reasons you didn't like it. Do you think that it's the story of the Warsaw Ghetto revolt itself that poses a problem, or rather the specific way it was presented in Uprising?

A movie I'd be interested in seeing made would be one about the Bielski Brothers: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0066210747/104-2311691-8942322?v=glance

I actually liked Uprising. It certainly could have been done better (the fact that it was a made-for-TV-movie didn't help it), but I'd be interested in you explaining some of the reasons you didn't like it. Do you think that it's the story of the Warsaw Ghetto revolt itself that poses a problem, or rather the specific way it was presented in Uprising?

A movie I'd be interested in seeing made would be one about the Bielski Brothers: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0066210747/104-2311691-8942322?v=glance

The TV movie thing was going against it, but I tried to look past that. If I was looking for an action movie about World War II with a decent mix of history (I'll give it that, it stuck to historical fact, most of the time) I might view Uprising. But the story did not have the depth it could have, maybe even should have, I just didn't feel connected to the partisans and their cuase except by the historical context. Stand alone, it's a fine movie, but it can't stand up to the Pianist (which is not a favorite of mine, but I'll give it credit) or Schindler's List.

I also have a bias against this particular Warsaw uprising, as clearly shown earlier this week, it grossly overshadows the much larger Home Army Uprising of August 1944, almost no one knows a thing about this, and a large number of people think we just had the 60th anniversary of the Ghetto Uprising (It was atually the Home Army Uprising Anniversary, the 61st Ann. of the Ghetto Uprising was in April), which I think is unfair to both Uprisings.

Seriously what kinda stupid idea was it to create a Jewish state smack bang in an area that has a history of anti-sematism. Why did they leave that place in the first place? I do believe that the holocaust happened and that it was wrong. Nazi piss me off and i really enjoyplaying game that you get to kill Nazis in. Why dont people talk about the Rape of Nanking where japanese soldiers killed something like 200 000 people rapeing them, forceing fathers to rape daughters and animals? The japanese government denied they even invaded China.

Seriously what kinda stupid idea was it to create a Jewish state smack bang in an area that has a history of anti-sematism. Why did they leave that place in the first place? I do believe that the holocaust happened and that it was wrong. Nazi piss me off and i really enjoyplaying game that you get to kill Nazis in. Why dont people talk about the Rape of Nanking where japanese soldiers killed something like 200 000 people rapeing them, forceing fathers to rape daughters and animals? The japanese government denied they even invaded China.

Actually, muslims are considered to be semetic. Also, they were not hostile to jews per se. They actually were quite happy to SHARE the territory with them and live side by side. It was the creation of the state in exclusion of them that created the hostility toward israelis.

As for the holocaust being an invention, it's a load of bollocks, and you've said as much yourself.

I actually liked Uprising. It certainly could have been done better (the fact that it was a made-for-TV-movie didn't help it), but I'd be interested in you explaining some of the reasons you didn't like it. Do you think that it's the story of the Warsaw Ghetto revolt itself that poses a problem, or rather the specific way it was presented in Uprising?

A movie I'd be interested in seeing made would be one about the Bielski Brothers: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0066210747/104-2311691-8942322?v=glance

Those who survived the holocaust are recording their memories of it in what is called "shoah testimony". There is a movie that Candice Bergen's husband made by the name of Shoah, too. It's a long movie, but worth the watching. I wish they'd broadcast it on public television sometime, actually.

Not-So-Friendly Moderator Reminder

Okay, I just want everyone to take a step back and breathe for a moment. While discussing this topic is perfectly within allowed conduct on NationStates, flaming and baiting are not allowed.

Deniers/Neo-Nazis: Keep in mind that this topic, by its very nature dances dangerously close to the line of flamebaiting. Do not cross that line. You may discuss this, and you may deny the halocaust, or whatever. Just don't flame, and don't be overly... provocative.

Anti-Nazis: You aren't immune to getting in trouble just because you're anti-Nazi. Do not flame, and do not rise to any baiting by the above group. New members should note that the Mods do not give anti-Nazis carte blanche to flame Nazis. We've deleted equal numbers of Nazis and anti-Nazis. Your politics are irrelevant. All that matters is our rules.

Remember, this is a charged topic. Posters would be wise to keep NationStates rules in mind before clicking 'Submit Reply'.

Why don't you connect the dots for those of us who can't keep up? What are you trying to say? Also, if you believe the Holocaust is exploited by the Jewish community, how about providing some examples?


http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22exploiting+the+holocaust%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Holocaust+Industry+%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22monopoly+on+the+Holocaust%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

Those who survived the holocaust are recording their memories of it in what is called "shoah testimony". There is a movie that Candice Bergen's husband made by the name of Shoah, too. It's a long movie, but worth the watching. I wish they'd broadcast it on public television sometime, actually.
extremely worth seeing
it may be at your local library.. at least through interlibrary loan
or even available through netflix

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22exploiting+the+holocaust%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab=

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Holocaust+Industry+%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22monopoly+on+the+Holocaust%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

Blind links and no argumentation. Wouldn't want to put too much work into this.

Blind links and no argumentation. Wouldn't want to put too much work into this.I try to listen when the Hack speaks...so "no argumentation" ....not today....

I try to listen when the Hack speaks...so "no argumentation" ....not today....

What a blatant cop-out. Cowardly, too.

Hack wrote as follows:

You may discuss this, and you may deny the halocaust, or whatever. Just don't flame, and don't be overly... provocative.

If you sincerely believe in what you're insinuating, and are in possession of even moderate intelligence and vocabulary, you should be capable of expressing your beliefs in a non-flaming manner.

All I'm asking is for you to back up your assertion about Holocaust exploitation- which, for the record, I think contains some elements of truth. However, until you expand on your cryptic remarks, it's impossible to have any constructive discussion.

If you're worried about being banned for "flaming", try telegramming me.

There is this one project where they are taking taped accounts of over 50,000 HOlocaust survivors, my cousin't Grandma did it. It is a project that is being done by Steven Spielberg.

Did all the jews get together and build trenches with bodies in them and concentration camps and all keep a perfect secret??

Did all the jews get together and build trenches with bodies in them and concentration camps and all keep a perfect secret??

Yeah, I guess my family just killed their own kids and blamed it on someone else. :rolleyes: :headbang:

Yeah and I am sure Easy Company of the 101st Airborne didnt find a concentration camp.

I love these nutjobs that come out of the woodworks to say the Holocaust was a lie; it astounds me how ignorant and naive the people of this world are sometimes... seriously, I mean, how can you ignore death camps, gas chambers, and mass graves?

I love these nutjobs that come out of the woodworks to say the Holocaust was a lie; it astounds me how ignorant and naive the people of this world are sometimes... seriously, I mean, how can you ignore death camps, gas chambers, and mass graves?

By denying they ever existed. Sadly, it works.

Yeah and I am sure Easy Company of the 101st Airborne didnt find a concentration camp.

Well, actually, they did not come across a concentration camp itself, they came across a satellite camp to Dachau Concentration Camp. They liberated that satellite camp while other Allied units liberating Dachau proper, and Bergen-Belsen, two of the larger camps that were liberated in the west. By all means, the camp E Company liberated was a playground compared to what other Allied units, especially Russians came across.

The Russians "liberated" Poland, where not only the majority of concentration camps were, but were all the extermination camps were (No Extermination camps were established on the Reich proper), the Germans did a fairly good job of hiding these in the wake of their retreat, but the Soviets reached them early sometimes. The British at Bergen-Belsen, came across a gruesome discovery in the form of the Commandant's wife, who was nicknamed the "bitch of Belsen", who had a hobby in making assorted things.... out of human skin. She was hung.

And on a nitpick, it's E Company, 506th PIR of the 101st, there were other E companies in the 101, I'm fairly sure you're referring to the 506th's.

let me ask my conservitive roman cathlic grand father a question about his old army days
Me:grandpa is it true you came opon a concitration camp full of bodies?
Grandpa:yes

there you have it proof it happened!

this "its a jewish lie" is the biggest lie i have ever heard nothing more relable then an anti-semetic nation and authers to trust