NationStates Jolt Archive

Words cant express what I feel so I'll use pictures.

http://www.nofooforyou.com/2003_september/patriotism.jpg

http://www.history.org/Foundation/Annualrpt01/images/patriotism.jpg

http://tornado.brevard.edu/ketchawr/ground%20zero%20patriotism.jpg

http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/arsenal/teamrocs/bert/evilbertgang.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/neighbours/whoswho/images/poses/whos_harold_0083.gif

http://www.hants.gov.uk/denmeadoperatic/images/maypole.jpg

http://tudorhistory.org/henry8/henry.jpg

http://www.dangermenfilms.com/stargeeks/images/pic3_trekkies.jpg

I don't get it

.....k

Arghhhhhhhhh couldnt express what i meant properly in pictures!

Hehehe

Well, if it's general annoyance, or a feeling of over-whelm-ation (yes, I know it's not a word), I agree (man, that flag-key... gah). I must admit I was confused by a couple of the pictures though.

Pictures with some idea what prompted them would be nice. (Henry VIII? maypole? demonic sesame street?)

And I can't even figure out what the guy with the book and his finger pointing back is doing... :D

Thata Harold from Neighbours. Hes so cool.

Heh.

Patriotism is a value we should all embrace! Anyone who sez different is a communist!

You lost me after the sesame street one, but yes patriotism gets on my nerves. There is no nation in this world who has the right to say "we are the best nation in the world", because there's no such thing.

Patriotism is a value we should all embrace! Anyone who sez different is a communist!

What about patriotic communists?

What about patriotic communists?

Well... they....... are.... communists...

So technically, devoid of logic as the point was, it holds true in that case.

I am profoundly convinced that all forms of nationalism represent nothing but the worst misfortune for humanity, and that everyone should pursue the objective of creating a harmonious human race. It is true that the nationalism of oppressed peoples – as a natural act of self-defence – is far more excusable than the nationalism of peoples that oppress; yet although the nationalism of the strong is ignoble, the nationalism of the weak is unwise; both engender and support one another, and they constitute a vicious circle of misfortunes, from which humanity will never escape unless all of us give up our collective self-love and try to stand on completely neutral ground. That is why I, despite the heart-rending suffering of my people, do not wish to adhere to Hebrew nationalism, but rather to work only for the cause of absolutely just human relations. I am profoundly convinced that this will do my unfortunate people more good than nationalistic strivings.

Charles Chaplin

There is nothing wrong with loving your country.

You lost me after the sesame street one, but yes patriotism gets on my nerves. There is no nation in this world who has the right to say "we are the best nation in the world", because there's no such thing.

Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope. :(

There is nothing wrong with loving your country.



Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope. :(


No, the problem is, people use "patriotism" without actually meaning that word.

No, the problem is, people use "patriotism" without actually meaning that word.

People use a lot of words without actually meaning them. Mainly left-wing people, who are too stupid to look them up.

No, patriotism isn't bad.

But patriotism is pretty rare.

What's common, and damn annoying is:

Jingoism

n 1: an appeal intended to arouse patriotic emotions [syn: flag waving] 2: fanatical patriotism

jin·go·ism
n.
Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism


(source - www.dictionary.com)

There is nothing wrong with loving your country.



Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope. :(The problem is that you defend your country against something, which means you think your country is superior to something. If you want to defend your country against anything, it means you think your country is superior than anything.

No, the problem is, people use "patriotism" without actually meaning that word.

Yes - the Patriot Act is a good example. What is so patriotic about depriving people of civil liberties in a witchhunt for terrorists?

People use a lot of words without actually meaning them. Mainly left-wing people, who are too stupid to look them up.

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~mlaitin/pics/taija-rollercoaster%20in%20Las%20vegas.jpg

HERE WE GO AGAINNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate the tories.

People use a lot of words without actually meaning them. Mainly left-wing people, who are too stupid to look them up.

http://www.shortarmguy.com/flamer.gif

And we were doing SO well...

People use a lot of words without actually meaning them. Mainly left-wing people, who are too stupid to look them up.

So your political stance affects your levels of intelligence? Left = stupid

I'd just *love* to see a source for that

(Hint, the irony is that I posted my dictionary entry before reading this post... and I'm left. ZING!)

People use a lot of words without actually meaning them. Mainly left-wing people, who are too stupid to look them up.

Since when has stupidity been a hallmark of left wingers? How many skinheads or KKK memebers you know that belong to Mensa? :p

The human race is superior to any country.

The problem is that you defend your country against something, which means you think your country is superior to something. If you want to defend your country against anything, it means you think your country is superior than anything.

Imagine I came into your house and began to beat up your dad.

I would hope that you would protect him. That doesn't mean you think that he is the worlds best dad, does it now.

You protect him because he is your dad, same is you would protect your country, because it is YOUR country.

There is nothing wrong with loving your country.

Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope. :(

I am not willing to fight or die for my country, which I see as irrelevant in the whole scheme of things. I am however willing to fight and die to protect the people I care for. If that makes me a traitor, string me up then...

People use a lot of words without actually meaning them. Mainly left-wing people, who are too stupid to look them up.

I'll remember that next time a right-winger calls me a communist as an insult.

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~mlaitin/pics/taija-rollercoaster%20in%20Las%20vegas.jpg

HERE WE GO AGAINNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate the tories.

I'm not a tory.

I'm not a tory.

What are you then?

Since when has stupidity been a hallmark of left wingers? How many skinheads or KKK memebers you know that belong to Mensa? :p

I'm not a skinhead, or a member of the KKK, but I am right wing and I have (hand on heart) an IQ of 151 - and a note of invitation to join Mensa.

That is irrelevant though. Lefties are stupid on the basis that they follow politics that are flimsy and ridiculous, and cannot withstand any kind of probing.

What are you then?

I'm not a member of any party.

And who I vote for is my business. :D

I'm not a skinhead, or a member of the KKK, but I am right wing and I have (hand on heart) an IQ of 151 - and a note of invitation to join Mensa.

That is irrelevant though. Lefties are stupid on the basis that they follow politics that are flimsy and ridiculous, and cannot withstand any kind of probing.

So, do you enjoy making generalizations?

Wow-smart people CAN be assholes! :o

I'm not a skinhead, or a member of the KKK, but I am right wing and I have (hand on heart) an IQ of 151 - and a note of invitation to join Mensa.

That is irrelevant though. Lefties are stupid on the basis that they follow politics that are flimsy and ridiculous, and cannot withstand any kind of probing.
Well, if you're as clever as you claim, you may notice I never implied YOU were a skinhead or KKK member, I asked if you know any that were Mensa members? ;)

P.S. You claim left wing ideals are flimsy and cannot stand probing - I say the same thing about right wing ideals. It's called an opinion - and as much as you might wish it was otherwise, your opinions (or mine for that matter) aren't facts.

I'm not a skinhead, or a member of the KKK, but I am right wing and I have (hand on heart) an IQ of 151 - and a note of invitation to join Mensa.

That is irrelevant though. Lefties are stupid on the basis that they follow politics that are flimsy and ridiculous, and cannot withstand any kind of probing.

Even if you have an IQ of 151, you have the social skills of a child still in the egocentric stage. Insulting people based soley on their political beliefs makes you sound like a fool, no matter how many big words you dress it up in.

Why not just say "I am right wing because left-wing "politics are flimsy and ridiculous, and cannot withstand any kind of probing". No random generalised insults to other intelligent people, and you keep some semblence of credibility.

So, do you enjoy making generalizations?

Wow-smart people CAN be assholes! :o

I do enjoy making generalisations - the world cannot work properly without them. Obviously those generalisations have to have some basis though.

You've got an IQ of 151 - I've got a 12 inch dong. You have proof? So do I...wanna see? :p

I do enjoy making generalisations - the world cannot work properly without them. Obviously those generalisations have to have some basis though.


No, they don't.

Making generalizations is easy-just find someone that can't stand up for themselves at the time, and make fun of them! Now watch as your friends do the same-you've just made a generalization!

I do enjoy making generalisations - the world cannot work properly without them. Obviously those generalisations have to have some basis though.

I make generalisations too, but at least I have the decency to state that they are generalisations when I make them, instead of acting like my opinion is fact.

Even if you have an IQ of 151, you have the social skills of a child still in the egocentric stage. Insulting people based soley on their political beliefs makes you sound like a fool, no matter how many big words you dress it up in.

Why not just say "I am right wing because left-wing "politics are flimsy and ridiculous, and cannot withstand any kind of probing". No random generalised insults to other intelligent people, and you keep some semblence of credibility.

Leftwing policies and ideology are foolish. It therefore follows that those who believe in them are foolish. I'm not insulting leftwingers as people - just their political preference.

New Fubaria, I will look out my certificate, but I have had it a good long time now, so it may take some finding. I have no wish to see your penis, thanks - I'll just take your word. You must be very proud of it. :rolleyes:

Leftwing policies and ideology are foolish. It therefore follows that those who believe in them are foolish. I'm not insulting leftwingers as people - just their political preference.

New Fubaria, I will look out my certificate, but I have had it a good long time now, so it may take some finding. I have no wish to see your penis, thanks - I'll just take your word. You must be very proud of it. :rolleyes:

Well, I find right wing policies and ideology to be foolish, but you don't see me making sweeping generalizations of them >_>

It therefore follows that those who believe in them are foolish

See, the thing is, no matter how you phrase it, that IS an insult to lefties here. Intelligence isn't a substitute for good manners, you know.

And geez, for someone so smart, you set a pretty bad example. Pity, really.

if your not willing to die for your country I hope you enjoy the bayonette in your stomach by the invading armies of China.


Have fun morons.

Nationalism is a tool to mobalize the country, and being the best IS GOOD. if we were the same as everyone else we would be a starving scum bucket of a country. Im glad I was born here in the USA, and I hope we never bow down to the UN or any other jelouse country. Canada and Mexico might as well join us and become states, because for all I care if your not an American, your not as good.

Nothing matters in the world except raw unbridled power. Power is the most importnat thing a country hasd, economic, military, and human resources. With power we remain the forces of freedom to our allies, and the greatest opppressive fear of our enemies. That is how it should be. I want all of my stuff to be the best, i want my state to be the best and i want my country to dominate the world! Screw anyone who doesnt agree, without the USA you would have the USSR all over the world. USSW... Thats the nightmare, billions killed in purges, millions in forced labour camps....

We never purged 40 million americans on a whim by a sadistic leader, but the USSR did. The Chinese continue doing so, and the other communist countries. Anyone who wants to get rid of the united states election process and democratic meathods is a traitor. Electing a communist to office is treason, because the will kill the pollitical systems, and declare that they will.

blah blah blah at the expenses of not wasting another moment of my time ill give you the easy to read version.


not willing to die for your country? well i hope the chinese bayonette hurts

against nationalism? so you want to live in a turd world country.

against power of our nation? Well i hope you enjoy 90% taxes in a socialist society, ill have shot myself by then, or established a freedom fighter group.

Communist are idiots. 100+ million dead because of communism, and these are non-war deaths. Communist only want power in a non-economically sound way. yay for the reds...

Jingoism

n 1: an appeal intended to arouse patriotic emotions [syn: flag waving] 2: fanatical patriotism

jin·go·ism
n.
Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism


(source - www.dictionary.com)

Thank you very much for proving my point so efficiently

if your not willing to die for your country I hope you enjoy the bayonette in your stomach by the invading armies of China.


Have fun morons.

Nationalism is a tool to mobalize the country, and being the best IS GOOD. if we were the same as everyone else we would be a starving scum bucket of a country. Im glad I was born here in the USA, and I hope we never bow down to the UN or any other jelouse country. Canada and Mexico might as well join us and become states, because for all I care if your not an American, your not as good.

Nothing matters in the world except raw unbridled power. Power is the most importnat thing a country hasd, economic, military, and human resources. With power we remain the forces of freedom to our allies, and the greatest opppressive fear of our enemies. That is how it should be. I want all of my stuff to be the best, i want my state to be the best and i want my country to dominate the world! Screw anyone who doesnt agree, without the USA you would have the USSR all over the world. USSW... Thats the nightmare, billions killed in purges, millions in forced labour camps....

We never purged 40 million americans on a whim by a sadistic leader, but the USSR did. The Chinese continue doing so, and the other communist countries. Anyone who wants to get rid of the united states election process and democratic meathods is a traitor. Electing a communist to office is treason, because the will kill the pollitical systems, and declare that they will.

blah blah blah at the expenses of not wasting another moment of my time ill give you the easy to read version.


not willing to die for your country? well i hope the chinese bayonette hurts

against nationalism? so you want to live in a turd world country.

against power of our nation? Well i hope you enjoy 90% taxes in a socialist society, ill have shot myself by then, or established a freedom fighter group.

Communist are idiots. 100+ million dead because of communism, and these are non-war deaths. Communist only want power in a non-economically sound way. yay for the reds...


Yeah, because China's invasion is just around the corner :rolleyes:. And hey, genius? There's a difference between "real communism," and "fake, crappy psuedo-communism"

Seriously, where do these people come from?

.......................................I hate anti-communists

Well, I find right wing policies and ideology to be foolish, but you don't see me making sweeping generalizations of them >_>

Well, you are obviously a far better person than I am. Sadly, most lefties I come into contact with in the real world do not have your good grace.

You are a shining example. But your politics are still a pile of shite.

.......................................I hate anti-communists


I hate people who don't see the difference between 'communists' and 'people with left-wing leanings'.

Seriously, disagreeing with Bush doesn't make you a communist. Disagreeing with the war on Iraq doesn't make you a communist. Not wanting to die for your country (and in most cases, it's not the country, but the government), doesn't make you a communist.

Knowledge is your friend people.

Well, you are obviously a far better person than I am. Sadly, most lefties I come into contact with in the real world do not have your good grace.

You are a shining example. But your politics are still a pile of shite.


Actually, from what I've seen, it's the right wingers who don't have "my good grace"

And your politics are just as feces like as my own ;)

This England my England guy is one of the best trolls I've ever seen - kudos to you, my dear sir! :)

Eh, it's late and time for Kyle to go to bed. G'night all!

.......................................I hate anti-communists

Didn't I just see another thread you posted about an 'ignored massacre' of 8 people?

If you seriously are a communist, which is easily a far more shitty political belief system than that of an ordinary left-winger, then you must surely be worried about the communist massacre of over 100 million people.

I'd call that a fairly 'ignored massacre', being that I never see TV programs about it.

Didn't I just see another thread you posted about an 'ignored massacre' of 8 people?


Nope, that was about the massacres in Cyprus - The 8 people killed was in '93 when Clinton wanted to show what a tough guy he was.

Tell me this EmE - somone says to me "Mariah Carey is the greatest musician of all time!". If this person has a high IQ and a willingness to thrust their opinion at me as if it was a fact, does this make it true?

Nope, that was about the massacres in Cyprus - The 8 people killed was in '93 when Clinton wanted to show what a tough guy he was.

The bulk of what I wanted to know was in the other two points. If you please.

If you seriously are a communist, which is easily a far more shitty political belief system than that of an ordinary left-winger, then you must surely be worried about the communist massacre of over 100 million people.

I'd call that a fairly 'ignored massacre', being that I never see TV programs about it.

I'm not a communist - But I hate people who use 'commie' and 'pinko' as insults against Leftists. And I think the bulk of the 'massacre' you are talking about was a famine produced by the Kulaks who destroyed their grain - it took a lot of time after that for the Agricultural industry to recover.

And I've seen plenty of TV Programmes about it.

Tell me this EmE - somone says to me "Mariah Carey is the greatest musician of all time!". If this person has a high IQ and a willingness to thrust their opinion at me as if it was a fact, does this make it true?

It doesn't, because it has no basis in fact.

However, the ideology of communists (as in the actual communists), for example, their views on race, have been disproved by nearly all investigations into race since.

So me saying that the policy of communists is stupid, has a basis in fact.

A typical anti-immigration tory with no political beliefs apart from building floating fortresses to house asylum seekers.

I'm not a communist - But I hate people who use 'commie' and 'pinko' as insults against Leftists. And I think the bulk of the 'massacre' you are talking about was a famine produced by the Kulaks who destroyed their grain - it took a lot of time after that for the Agricultural industry to recover.

And I've seen plenty of TV Programmes about it.

Don't try and butter it up. The communists where the worst bunch of murderers seen in Earths history.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

But for some reason the TV pays far more attention to the 6 million or so killed by the Nazis.

I'm not going to call lefties communists, unless they express hugely communist views, as many tend to do.

I didn't gloss it over - I simply pointed out that alot of the USSR's deaths were down to famine caused by the Kulaks.

It doesn't, because it has no basis in fact.

However, the ideology of communists (as in the actual communists), for example, their views on race, have been disproved by nearly all investigations into race since.

So me saying that the policy of communists is stupid, has a basis in fact.

Assuming the people you talk about believe that one thing that has been disproven. And that the original studies were based on the actual ideals of actual communists, and not somewhere like China, were 'communism' is just a lable being used to fool people.

And you weren't just saying the *policy* was stupid, you were saying the *people* who believe in the policy were stupid. One is (debatable) fact, one is pure opinion.

Learn the difference.

It doesn't, because it has no basis in fact.

However, the ideology of communists (as in the actual communists), for example, their views on race, have been disproved by nearly all investigations into race since.

So me saying that the policy of communists is stupid, has a basis in fact.

So, left wing = communism (your original comment was "left-wing", not "communism"). Come on man, I thought you were supposed to be smart...that'd be like me saying right wing politics = fascism. There is a whole spectrum of politics between the two extremes of left and right. Assuming that all those with left-leanings in their political ideals are communists isn't just ignorant, it's downright stupid.

Oh, BTW, can I see some of this famous "proof" that you keep touting?

I'm not going to call lefties communists, unless they express hugely communist views, as many tend to do.

Care to share your OPINION of what 'hugely communist views' are then? And let us all in on your definition of communism, too, since there are probably a lot of people who will disagree with you (oh, but then you'll just call them stupid... maybe it won't be worth it afterall)

A typical anti-immigration tory with no political beliefs apart from building floating fortresses to house asylum seekers.

I am not a tory. They are no longer a patriotic party. They are run by a Romanian Jewish immigrant for Christ's sake - how can they possibly pose as antiimmigration?

It would take a long time, but my politcal views stretch far further than just 'no more immigrants'. And I would never build them floating fortresses - they already cost us too much money, without adding to that expenditure.

On a side note, I actually worked out some time ago how much of my salary I was giving to immigrants every year. £600. I'd rather of kept it.

So, if i get it, there is only communism as left and a system based on complete logic which only fools fail to see on the right? And left kills millions and taxes you heavily for it and right is paradise on earth?
Sorry, but maybe you are good at pattern recognition but thats it. "Left" isnt all stalinism, but social democracy as well and everything in between. And right goes all the way to the Third Reich, but maybe you condone genocide, because right ist always right, isnt it?

Care to share your OPINION of what 'hugely communist views' are then? And let us all in on your definition of communism, too, since there are probably a lot of people who will disagree with you (oh, but then you'll just call them stupid... maybe it won't be worth it afterall)

Main points-

1. Believes in the doctrine 'From each according to the ability to give, to each according to their need'.

2. Believes that there is no such thing as race.

3. Believes that class is the most important thing in the world.

4. Believes in the 'mind is an empty slate' theory (Locke - or something like that) - believe that heridity and genetics mean nothing and environment means everything.

That'll do.

they already cost us too much money, without adding to that expenditure.

You dont get it do you?

Immigrants BENEFIT the economy - they tend to be harder workers and have a greater drive. The old 'social security' scaremongering just isn't working anymore - Immigration is a good thing.

And Britain is entering Stage 5 of the Population Model - like Germany - We need Immigrants to get our population up so the economy grows.

Main points-
3. Believes that class is the most important thing in the world.



Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
*gasps*
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I don't know if that's actually true for some form of communism or not, but I know that *no one* I know who identifies themself as a communist would *ever* claim that point to be true. So I think you may want to reconsider you sweeping statements somewhat.

So, if i get it, there is only communism as left and a system based on complete logic which only fools fail to see on the right? And left kills millions and taxes you heavily for it and right is paradise on earth?
Sorry, but maybe you are good at pattern recognition but thats it. "Left" isnt all stalinism, but social democracy as well and everything in between. And right goes all the way to the Third Reich, but maybe you condone genocide, because right ist always right, isnt it?

Communism is far far left, Fascism is far far right, and there is a whole spectrum in between.

I do not condone genocide, or most of what the Nazis believed. However, their genocide was not even on the same scale as that of the communists.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
*gasps*
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I don't know if that's actually true for some form of communism or not, but I know that *no one* I know who identifies themself as a communist would *ever* claim that point to be true. So I think you may want to reconsider you sweeping statements somewhat.

Read Marx. It is a key point of communism.

Originally Posted by Jackuul:
"We never purged 40 million americans on a whim by a sadistic leader, but the USSR did."
Well, maybe you never wiped out 40 million people on a insane leader's whim, but you did wipe out 20 million (relatively) harmless native Americans cause they were in your way. ;)

That aside, why is whenever any criticism of right-wing ideology is made, such facile, meaningless and emotive statements and scaremongering such as "Chinese bayonette in your stomach" are brought up? And they have the audacity to say left-wingers can't come up with reasoned arguments!

And as for this:
Quote:
"Originally Posted by England My England
There is nothing wrong with loving your country.

Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope."

I personally prefer to view a Patriot as a person who is devoted to ideals of personal freedom and is willing to defend that right in whatever way they feel comfortable with, and not just mindlessly to their country simply because that's the country they're born in. Willingness to defend your country shouldn't be considered a measureof your bravery or patriotism. For example, no-one could claim Edmund Hilary (climbed Everest, drove a tractor across the Antartic, spent 5 decades building schools and hospitals in Nepal) as being a coward or un-patriotic but he was a conscientious objector during WWII because he didn't believe he could kill another person. (He instead became an ambulance driver).
But I digress...
If a Patriot can be described as the above, then by inference we can say that the Nazis were true patriots of Germany during 1933-1945 and the Jews were traitors who deserved 'to be strung up'. (your words, not mine)
Similarly, today Osama Bin Laden can been seen as a real patriot as he is defending what he sees as an invasion and corruption of what ideals he holds dear for the Islamic nation he was born into and is simply fighting the only way possible when facing an enemy with overwhelming military superiority (i.e. through clandestine attacks on the opposing nation's weak points), which has always been the way throughout history.
Perhaps 'England, My England' could clear that one up for me.

Read Marx. It is a key point of communism.

Oh, well, Marx.

You do know that Marx isn't in fact the be all and end all of communism?

Oh, well, Marx.

You do know that Marx isn't in fact the be all and end all of communism?

Marx's Communism was not Russia's Communism, it didn't follow the politic-evolutionary model.

Your name says it all really - you are a racist.

'Shaed' is a racist term?

You dont get it do you?

Immigrants BENEFIT the economy - they tend to be harder workers and have a greater drive. The old 'social security' scaremongering just isn't working anymore - Immigration is a good thing.

And Britain is entering Stage 5 of the Population Model - like Germany - We need Immigrants to get our population up so the economy grows.

Immigrants have a tiny impact on the British economy - all be it positive. Once you are done subtracting all that they have cost you in crime, benefits etc there is very little benefit. Per capita immigrants actually reduce the GDP a great deal.

Protecting ourselves against 'the terror inside' is costing a huge bundle at present.

Our country is becoming completely overrun, and is one of the most densely populated places on earth. Countryside is being destroyed and replaced with houses, and our nation is becoming uglier.

'Positive descrimination' and other social acceptance programs for immigrants (particularly the non whites) cost us huge ammounts of money, upset British people and ensure that jobs are done more poorly than ever.

Then you take into account that huge civil unrest is caused anywhere the races are mixed, which upsets both sides, and just causes more unrest.

And there's the depletion of community spirit in areas of high ethnic population, as well as largely increased murder, robbery, rape, muggings, etc etc.

Mainly though I'm just worried that in several decades time it will all be even worse, and eventually whites will be outnumbered. I wouldn't want that for my children, or any British children.

Immigration is bad.

Mainly though I'm just worried that in several decades time it will all be even worse, and eventually whites will be outnumbered. I wouldn't want that for my children, or any British children.
Immigration is bad.

Ah, and here the '151 IQ' claim starts to run into issues.

1. Some British children AREN'T WHITE, you moron. Or don't they count?
2. Just because you might one day not be in the majority, is NOT a reason that immigration is bad. It *is* however, a reason that you appear to be a racist fool.

Imagine I came into your house and began to beat up your dad.

I would hope that you would protect him. That doesn't mean you think that he is the worlds best dad, does it now.

You protect him because he is your dad, same is you would protect your country, because it is YOUR country.No I protect him because he is a man.

'Shaed' is a racist term?

Pssssst... I think he was talking about England My England...

Although... maybe......... I'm mistaken.... *looks worried*

Communism is far far left, Fascism is far far right, and there is a whole spectrum in between.

I do not condone genocide, or most of what the Nazis believed. However, their genocide was not even on the same scale as that of the communists.

First, "the" communists never engaged in genocide. Read up the definition on it. Second, if you realise that left does not automatically mean communist, why do you insist that all people who are left leaning are commies and thus mass murderers?

And yes, of course there are different races. Jumping to the conclusion that one is superiour is idiocy.

I personally prefer to view a Patriot as a person who is devoted to ideals of personal freedom and is willing to defend that right in whatever way they feel comfortable with, and not just mindlessly to their country simply because that's the country they're born in. Willingness to defend your country shouldn't be considered a measureof your bravery or patriotism. For example, no-one could claim Edmund Hilary (climbed Everest, drove a tractor across the Antartic, spent 5 decades building schools and hospitals in Nepal) as being a coward or un-patriotic but he was a conscientious objector during WWII because he didn't believe he could kill another person. (He instead became an ambulance driver).
But I digress...
If a Patriot can be described as the above, then by inference we can say that the Nazis were true patriots of Germany during 1933-1945 and the Jews were traitors who deserved 'to be strung up'. (your words, not mine)
Similarly, today Osama Bin Laden can been seen as a real patriot as he is defending what he sees as an invasion and corruption of what ideals he holds dear for the Islamic nation he was born into and is simply fighting the only way possible when facing an enemy with overwhelming military superiority (i.e. through clandestine attacks on the opposing nation's weak points), which has always been the way throughout history.
Perhaps 'England, My England' could clear that one up for me.

You can't just 'prefer' to use a word wrongly. It means what it means.

And then you say that Jews were traitors that deserve to be strung up, and say 'your words not mine'. Only they weren't my words - they were yours. :rolleyes:

A patriot is a patriot. The end. You have the definition, but there is nothing to say that all patriots are good, or all patriots are bad. They are just people devoted to their nation.

Why not be patriotic to your own ideas, or perhaps your own lawn, or property line? Patriotism is, by definition, a form of vehemence, cult mentality, and zealotry. I understand the photo montage perfectly. Patriotism is about being certain, and therefore wrong. Certainty is the hobgoblin of the jackbooted thug. Witch burnings, anyone? The consideration of relevant ideas is never the baliwick of the entrenched. "Desperately clutching at the line, she wondered if she would live the night." Not exactly a position worthy of study. Patriotism is, quite simply, a remnant, an antique: the past. Enjoy your collection, granpa. Its value is contained by Ebay alone.

First, "the" communists never engaged in genocide. Read up the definition on it. Second, if you realise that left does not automatically mean communist, why do you insist that all people who are left leaning are commies and thus mass murderers?

And yes, of course there are different races. Jumping to the conclusion that one is superiour is idiocy.

You are right. The communists engaged in democide.

I do not insist that all lefties are either communists or murderers. You made that up.

I'm glad you see that their are different races. But although I agree that none is superior, I don't believe the races are equal in ability.

On average, orientals are the most intelligent, though, on average, blacks can run faster.

Why not be patriotic to your own ideas, or perhaps your own lawn, or property line? Patriotism is, by definition, a form of vehemence, cult mentality, and zealotry. I understand the photo montage perfectly. Patriotism is about being certain, and therefore wrong. Certainty is the hobgoblin of the jackbooted thug. Witch burnings, anyone? The consideration of relevant ideas is never the baliwick of the entrenched. "Desperately clutching at the line, she wondered if she would live the night." Not exactly a position worthy of study. Patriotism is, quite simply, a remnant, an antique: the past. Enjoy your collection, granpa. Its value is contained by Ebay alone.

That was deep. You deserve a column.

A patriot is a patriot. The end. You have the definition, but there is nothing to say that all patriots are good, or all patriots are bad. They are just people devoted to their nation.

Or, according to you, devoted to those members of a nation with a certain skin tone. Which, frankly, is even more moronic than devotion to a geographical expression: devotion to a certain subgroup of individuals born within a geographical expression, as defined by the shade of their epidermis.

I'm glad you see that their are different races. But although I agree that none is superior, I don't believe the races are equal in ability.

On average, orientals are the most intelligent, though, on average, blacks can run faster.

Bullshit. Define "race". Then define "intelligent". Then go away and look up the definitions of "correlation" and "causation".

Its good with fish and chips, and can be used to clean pots i've heard.
But it should be in moderation, too much patriotism gives you the shits and makes you sick. Americans make me sick with all their patriotic crap-shit.
Australians are patriotic, but we don't suck our fore-fathers foreskins like they do in the USA. Nothing wrong with wanting to protect whats yours, but teaching 10 year olds all the friggin states names? Either fuck your patriotism, or make some bigger states. Fucking Mississipi! Thats not a name, its a fucking paragraph. I probably didn't spell it right but who honestly cares? Its the one with the river and lots of double letters in the name.
Queensland. Theres an easy state name. South Australia, Western Australia, the Northern Territory, don't need to remember where the little bastards are! Victoria, Tasmania, New South Wales, holy shit! thats like three syllables each! Those states, thats all of them.

Patriotism is a pain in the coin-slot. Like spoons, and they get jammed in there but you need some Coke and theres this damn spoon in there...

Just in case you haven't ever realised - England is a nation of immigrants! (1066 mean anything to you?)
That said, I agree that there needs to controls on immigration. Problems arrive from immigration that is too quick and doesn't look to address any problems that arise from immigration. There needs to be better thought-out immigration policies. At the very least, there needs to be english-test requirement laws. Most of the problems (imho) seem to stem from immigrants with little or no English language skills coming in. What invariably happens is that they tend to live within their own community. Then they don't need to integrate and arises is a percieved opinion from the natives (i.e. you 'England my England' ) that they don't like the natives and must be up to something devious and un-patriotic. This resentment keeps them segregated and compunds the problems.
Another issue I have is why they are allowed to dictate how the society they have moved into is run? (This sounds a bit racist I know). I deplore what happened in France with the no-religious icons in schools issue. If I moved to a Muslim country, I'd be happy to put up with their customs, because it is THEIR culture and I am an immigrant. So why do we have to change when they come here (to a traditionally and predominant Christian society) and complain about overt Christian displays?
Of course, the other major problem is that we rely on a (very) right-wing & populist media for our information. So we only get to see the negative stereotypes usually. And that means of course I'm basing my above gripe on what's reported in the media (having never had the chance to befriend any Muslims). And of course, having seen all the negative protrayals in the media of their culture (when was the last + Muslim role you saw at the Movies?), who can blame them for wanting to stick together?
Thanx for the chance to rant.

I do not insist that all lefties are either communists or murderers. You made that up.


I am just following your line of argumentation, where you claimed that left political ideas are stupid. You followed that up with what communism did wrong, ignoring the fact that the stalinist approach to building a nation in transition to a communist society is not the same as the communist ideology. That means a) you equal left=communist or b) are not able to argue your point of left=stupid with any facts.
Its up to you which way shows that you are indeed a moron.

Patriotism - the belief that a country is the best in the world, based on the fact that you live there.

Words evolve, they change. They are also unscrupulously bastardised in political propoganda. Patriot and patriotism are perfect examples.

Is there anything "wrong" with loving your country - well, maybe, maybe not. But how can you "love" a line in the sand drawn by someone hundreds or thousands ago, after they conqured the people who were there before. Or do you love a piece of cloth with pretty colours on it that sits at the top of a flagpole? Or, in fact, do you love a collective group of people with similar colored skin...it's all up for debate.

IMHO, a blind patriot is no different than a soccer hooligan who would headbutt somone simply because they are wearing another teams' colours.

Perhaps if we started considering ourselves global citizens instead of strutting around like roosters over our patch of turf, a lot of the worlds problems could be solved. After all, nationality is nothing but an accident of geography at the time of our birth.

to 'England. my England':
READ what I wrote AGAIN.
I said by INFERENCE - i.e. using your definition of a patriot as 'a person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her countrya'- then the Nazis who fought for their country and believed in their their leader were patriots and the Jews who didn't accept what was happening and protested and were eventually systematically exterminated (along with all the gays, gypsies, handicaps and other people who disagreed with what was happening) should be considered 'unpatriotic' as they weren't willing to be 'devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country' and therefore : 'anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up'. The words in quotations are YOURS, not mine. I was just taking your argument to it's logical conclusion.
Mindless support of yor country is NOT ok. that leads to fundamentalism, be it religious or jingoistic, pro-bush 'You are with us or against us' bullsh*t.

Another issue I have is why they are allowed to dictate how the society they have moved into is run? (This sounds a bit racist I know). I deplore what happened in France with the no-religious icons in schools issue. If I moved to a Muslim country, I'd be happy to put up with their customs, because it is THEIR culture and I am an immigrant. So why do we have to change when they come here (to a traditionally and predominant Christian society) and complain about overt Christian displays? Secularity is in the french constitution and it is in the law since 1901. France is not a christian society. There has been a revolution in 1792 and the clergy has been abolished, and the christian figure heads have been beheaded. For sometimes, christians have been outlawed in France. The same is happening with the muslims. No change here (I'm from France).

Patriotism is talked about as the willingness to defend your country, and fight for it, not fighting for your country is not being unpatriotic, sometimes it's more patriotic to not fight. I wouldn't call the Nazi's great German Patriots, I would call the Germans who helped the Allies, Patriots. I'm British, many Britons have done countless horrific acts in the name of our country, I wouldn't refer to them as patriots, they are a stain on the countries name.

It is more patriotic to stop a war, than to fight in one.

BTW people please do not feed the troll. Arguing with England my england is useless.

"Australians are patriotic, but we don't suck our fore-fathers foreskins like they do in the USA."

"Gee, Wally, I sure am sore from searching the web ad nauseum for an intelligent forum. I realize people drink and all, but isn't there a blogmaster who can hit the kick button once in a while? That would be swell!"

Just got here. Is this the caliber? (sigh) .....moves to managing bookmarks

Why do people (i.e. England my England) still believe in that racist generalisation as 'Blacks run faster'? I don't ever hear people saying 'Scandavians are genetically better at dodging flags while hurtling down icy slopes at high speeds with a two bits of wood tied to their feet' or 'Brazialians are genetically better at kicking a round ball around a paddock then into a net'.
The reasons are solely due to socio-economic reasons.
Sprinters' muscles are about 90% fast-twitch fiber (an average person is 60%), which is the same as Weight-lifters. So why no black weight-lifters and no Russian sprinters? Because Weight-lifting is a national sport in Eastern European countries.
and what do you need to learn sprinting? Anyway you can run. Likewise football or basketball - you don't need much, which is why (generally) poor people play it. How many top black rowers have there been? NONE. Yet the average size and musculature make-up for a top rower is almost identical to a top basketball player. Major difference: You need several thousand $$ (or pounds) to join a rowing club (and be close to good water - which in itself means House prices are higher) and a ball (and a innercity park) to play basketball. Also you imitate who you can identify with. How many black kids do you think identify with Steve Redgrave (THE GREATEST ATHLETE EVER) over Michael Jordan or Linford Christie?
Sorry. It always p*sses me off whenever I hear these generalisations, as they are really are hidden rascism. You never hear any excuses about white athletes being good because oof their genetics.
Also sorry to Shaed. It was because you're msg was directly b4 the other guys ;)

Just in case you haven't ever realised - England is a nation of immigrants! (1066 mean anything to you?)
That said, I agree that there needs to controls on immigration. Problems arrive from immigration that is too quick and doesn't look to address any problems that arise from immigration. There needs to be better thought-out immigration policies. At the very least, there needs to be english-test requirement laws. Most of the problems (imho) seem to stem from immigrants with little or no English language skills coming in. What invariably happens is that they tend to live within their own community. Then they don't need to integrate and arises is a percieved opinion from the natives (i.e. you 'England my England' ) that they don't like the natives and must be up to something devious and un-patriotic. This resentment keeps them segregated and compunds the problems.
Another issue I have is why they are allowed to dictate how the society they have moved into is run? (This sounds a bit racist I know). I deplore what happened in France with the no-religious icons in schools issue. If I moved to a Muslim country, I'd be happy to put up with their customs, because it is THEIR culture and I am an immigrant. So why do we have to change when they come here (to a traditionally and predominant Christian society) and complain about overt Christian displays?
Of course, the other major problem is that we rely on a (very) right-wing & populist media for our information. So we only get to see the negative stereotypes usually. And that means of course I'm basing my above gripe on what's reported in the media (having never had the chance to befriend any Muslims). And of course, having seen all the negative protrayals in the media of their culture (when was the last + Muslim role you saw at the Movies?), who can blame them for wanting to stick together?
Thanx for the chance to rant.

France, like Britain and indeed the rest of Europe, cannot really be described as "predominantly Christian", since practising Christians are a small and dwindling minority.In actual fact the French ruling against religious symbols in schools was resisted by Muslims, as it not only prohibited the display of crucifixes, etc, but also the wearing of headscarves and other religiously-mandated clothes by Muslim girls.

I agree that immigrant populations inevitably take time to settle in to their new society, mostly because of pea-brained cretins who regard jumping up and down and shrieking as a suitable response to anything which seems remotely different from what they're used to. As you say, a surprising number of these people seem to work for the gutter press. However, recent scientific investigation has discovered physical differences in the brains -- for want of a better term -- of racists. It is to be hoped that eventually this might lead to, if not a cure, then at least a pre-natal test.

to Doncdonia:
Thank you. You said it better than I did. I was afraid what I said would be mis-interpreted by the more clever amongst us (i.e. ppl with IQs of 151 - though oddly as far I'm aware MENSA tests only go up to 150, but that's by-the-by).
Anyway that's exactly what I meant. Fighting for a cause that defends a person's freedom is patriotic, not simply fighting for your country (of course the two can become one, as happened in WWII).
For that reason I don't necessarily not-support the invasion of Iraq, but I don't support the reasons they gave us for the invasion.

Why do people (i.e. England my England) still believe in that racist generalisation as 'Blacks run faster'? I don't ever hear people saying 'Scandavians are genetically better at dodging flags while hurtling down icy slopes at high speeds with a two bits of wood tied to their feet' or 'Brazialians are genetically better at kicking a round ball around a paddock then into a net'.
The reasons are solely due to socio-economic reasons.
Sprinters' muscles are about 90% fast-twitch fiber (an average person is 60%), which is the same as Weight-lifters. So why no black weight-lifters and no Russian sprinters? Because Weight-lifting is a national sport in Eastern European countries.
and what do you need to learn sprinting? Anyway you can run. Likewise football or basketball - you don't need much, which is why (generally) poor people play it. How many top black rowers have there been? NONE. Yet the average size and musculature make-up for a top rower is almost identical to a top basketball player. Major difference: You need several thousand $$ (or pounds) to join a rowing club (and be close to good water - which in itself means House prices are higher) and a ball (and a innercity park) to play basketball. Also you imitate who you can identify with. How many black kids do you think identify with Steve Redgrave (THE GREATEST ATHLETE EVER) over Michael Jordan or Linford Christie?
Sorry. It always p*sses me off whenever I hear these generalisations, as they are really are hidden rascism. You never hear any excuses about white athletes being good because oof their genetics.
Also sorry to Shaed. It was because you're msg was directly b4 the other guys ;)I will answer for England my england.

You stupid jew. I have an IQ of 151 I know better than anyone that blacks are stupid. You're a traitor you want to exterminate the whites. You must be a commie, you're a murderer, stalin killed millions and billions of people. The jews killed the christ. I hope the chinese will slaugther you and your race.

You lost me after the sesame street one, but yes patriotism gets on my nerves. There is no nation in this world who has the right to say "we are the best nation in the world", because there's no such thing.

What makes you think it's a "right'...it's an opinion?....A british officer once commented on the state of the American colonies and how they were different...he told his commanding officer...."I thought Crown Policy was to make the world British"..the French are always saying how much more cultured, the Germans how much more productive....the Italians so much better wine makers..etc..etc...there isn't a nation on this planet that hasn't bragged bout itself at some point or another...

Whether you think I have the right to voice such an opinion is moot..precisely because it is an opinion.

I invite someone to come up with a satisfactory justification of patriotism for me. If you take patriotism to mean 'pride in one's country' then it seems ridiculous. Nationality is simply accident of birth, no more no less.

Can anyone explain to me how or why you can have 'pride' in something you have absolutely no control over? How can you have pride in the past achievements of people who simply happened to belong to the same country?

I invite someone to come up with a satisfactory justification of patriotism for me. If you take patriotism to mean 'pride in one's country' then it seems ridiculous. Nationality is simply accident of birth, no more no less.

Can anyone explain to me how or why you can have 'pride' in something you have absolutely no control over? How can you have pride in the past achievements of people who simply happened to belong to the same country?

Have you zero connections to your past?..to your people?....I have connections every time I walk up and down the valleys of my tribe's ancestral lands..Every hill is where a Cherokee walked...every tract of land hunted, or farmed, or fished..or fought over...on quiet nites the spirits of our honored dead sing to you if you have but the ear...as far as American patriotism...it is no accident of birth that I was born here..you speak of it as if my parents were flying from NY to LA and I popped out by mistake somewhere in between?

I meant predominantly Christian as a term to describe our general history, not just practising Christian. I haven't been to Church in years but if asked which belief system I ascribed to it would be along Christian lines (especially the bit about forgiveness and openness).
From what I understood of the situation in France, it was parts of the Muslim community that first protested about overt Christian symbols in schools, so the Govt. banned all of them, including of course Muslim headgear, that caused another outrage in sections of the Muslim community.
As to why right-wingers work in the press, I'd suggest you read 'Manufacturing Consent' by Noam Chomsky. Do you think Rubert Murdoch wants someone working for him that disses his mate George W. Bush?
And to England my England, I've read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ann Rand, so don't bother saying anything 'bout my what I read.

Oh and Psylos, I live in Hong Kong, so I guess the chinkies don't have far to go to find me do they? :p

I meant predominantly Christian as a term to describe our general history, not just practising Christian. I haven't been to Church in years but if asked which belief system I ascribed to it would be along Christian lines (especially the bit about forgiveness and openness).
From what I understood of the situation in France, it was parts of the Muslim community that first protested about overt Christian symbols in schools, so the Govt. banned all of them, including of course Muslim headgear, that caused another outrage in sections of the Muslim community.In fact, some people were protesting (muslim or not) because the law was not applied. The ban on religious symbols in schools dates back from 1901. Political symbols are banned as well. The government can't do a fucking thing about them though. They made that new law so as to say they're doing something, but in fact it does just say what can be considered a religious sysbol. The effect of this law is that it reminded many people that it was banned and now the law is applied more but it wasn't really a milestone. Schools are still schools and some pupils are not wearing the kipa/cross/burga anymore, they're still alive.

Have you zero connections to your past?..to your people?....I have connections every time I walk up and down the valleys of my tribe's ancestral lands..Every hill is where a Cherokee walked...every tract of land hunted, or farmed, or fished..or fought over...on quiet nites the spirits of our honored dead sing to you if you have but the ear...as far as American patriotism...it is no accident of birth that I was born here..you speak of it as if my parents were flying from NY to LA and I popped out by mistake somewhere in between?
Poetic as it might be, you seem to be over romanticising.
It is an accident of birth that you were borth there. Just because your ancestors may have lived in america for a long time doesn't mean that it isn't.
The fact you are an american has nothing to do with your own effort, hence, you can't have pride in it.

Thanks for that. That wasn't covered by the media - so the biggest problem was that it was being applied selectively? That explains the annoyance amongst the Muslim community.
Thanks to Murdoch media, that little bit of info wasn't deemed important enough to report.

Poetic as it might be, you seem to be over romanticising.
It is an accident of birth that you were borth there. Just because your ancestors may have lived in america for a long time doesn't mean that it isn't.
The fact you are an american has nothing to do with your own effort, hence, you can't have pride in it.

Yup... it's like being proud of the colour of my skin, or the size of my feet, or the length of my thumbs: the last refuge of people with nothing else to be proud about.

I think you're missing the point here. You CAN be proud of the country you were born into, regardless of the fact you had nothing to do with it. If it represents ideals that you identify with and feel comfortable with and if you enjoy the attractions it has to offer, then why not feel proud that you're a part of that?

Poetic as it might be, you seem to be over romanticising.
It is an accident of birth that you were borth there. Just because your ancestors may have lived in america for a long time doesn't mean that it isn't.
The fact you are an american has nothing to do with your own effort, hence, you can't have pride in it.

I pity you that you have no connections..I could not imagine what it means for a person to not feel anything bout the land of their birth.

There is nothing wrong with loving your country.



Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope. :(

I'm English, and I think the UK is a shithole, and I wouldn't even consider giving up my life for it. So you wanna string me up? Call me a traitor? Ask yourself, what circumstances have caused me and many others to feel this way? Maybe if we had something to be proud of (apart from correct spelling and the world standard for quality television and radio - the BBC) I'd consider it. But as it stands, no.

Tell me, do you read The Sun, The Mirror, or any other toilet paper substitute? You sound like fucking 'Angry from Oldham' in a Sun letter page: 'Let's kick out the darkies and be separate from Europe (so we can stagnate in our own shitness even more)'...

Tip: engage brain before opening trap, it never fails. ;)

I think you're missing the point here. You CAN be proud of the country you were born into, regardless of the fact you had nothing to do with it. If it represents ideals that you identify with and feel comfortable with and if you enjoy the attractions it has to offer, then why not feel proud that you're a part of that?
That's not patriotism, though, that's conditional. A patriot will say they love their country simply because it is their country. If you have to first identify with the ideals, or enjoy the attractions then you aren't really patriotic. In that case, I would say you had the right to feel GLAD that you were of that nationality, but not proud.

I pity you that you have no connections..I could not imagine what it means for a person to not feel anything bout the land of their birth.
Oh I do feel things for it. After all, it's the place I grew up, I have fond memories and the like. But I don't kid myself that it's anything more than that- just the place I happened to grow up.

Racism and nationalism has little to do with intelligence (and stupidity). It's nice to have a vent for your frustration, someone to hate without a logical or moral excuse, whether you flunked tenth grade twice or have an IQ of 151. Of course, intelligent people more often turn to rationalism and are usually more willing to ignore their feelings in favor of humanitarianism, but as our british friend so efficiently prove, thsuch is not always the case.
Obviously, these are my own personal opinions/theories and are not to be interpreted as facts under any circumstances.

That's not patriotism, though, that's conditional. A patriot will say they love their country simply because it is their country. If you have to first identify with the ideals, or enjoy the attractions then you aren't really patriotic. In that case, I would say you had the right to feel GLAD that you were of that nationality, but not proud.


Oh I do feel things for it. After all, it's the place I grew up, I have fond memories and the like. But I don't kid myself that it's anything more than that- just the place I happened to grow up.

In your opinion you'd be kidding yourself..I am under no such penalty..I can look out my back window and see the first place where Grandfather Creator placed the Tslagi...see the homes of my people...walk where the blood fell from warriors who had fought the Chickamauga, the Choctaw, the Iroquis, a home is more then a place or an accident of birth....it is land I would die for, land that others of my family have died for...it is part of us.and I am part of it...romaticizing perhaps...but true nonetheless and infinitely better in my opinion then just an accident of birth.

In your opinion you'd be kidding yourself..I am under no such penalty..I can look out my back window and see the first place where Grandfather Creator placed the Tslagi...see the homes of my people...walk where the blood fell from warriors who had fought the Chickamauga, the Choctaw, the Iroquis, a home is more then a place or an accident of birth....it is land I would die for, land that others of my family have died for...it is part of us.and I am part of it...romaticizing perhaps...but true nonetheless and infinitely better in my opinion then just an accident of birth.
If that makes you happy it's fine with me... so long as you don't kill others for it.

i'm from england as well, and I am proud of what British people have done that have stood them apart from most others, and as such I feel as though I am "patriotic" (a fuzzy word if ever I saw one). However just because I am patriotic I dont instantly feel the need to fight and die in iraq for to secure oil for bush and his arse-wiper tony blair - and I dont think that makes me a "traitor"

That bloke who said that class was everything in marxist communism is sadly missing the point. "everyone is equal" - obviosly shows that, just because a person is born into a rich family, he cant have influence over and poorer person - which is exactly what class is.

oh and England My England you sound like a racist bigot

i'm from england as well, and I am proud of what British people have done that have stood them apart from most others, and as such I feel as though I am "patriotic" (a fuzzy word if ever I saw one). However just because I am patriotic I dont instantly feel the need to fight and die in iraq for to secure oil for bush and his arse-wiper tony blair - and I dont think that makes me a "traitor"

That bloke who said that class was everything in marxist communism is sadly missing the point. "everyone is equal" - obviosly shows that, just because a person is born into a rich family, he cant have influence over and poorer person - which is exactly what class is.

oh and England My England you sound like a racist bigot

Surprise surprise, it was England my England who made that comment about communism you alluded to. Not only that, he then pointed to Marx as his source.

If that makes you happy it's fine with me... so long as you don't kill others for it.

And you are whom that would tell us why we can kill others for?

In your opinion you'd be kidding yourself..I am under no such penalty..I can look out my back window and see the first place where Grandfather Creator placed the Tslagi...see the homes of my people...walk where the blood fell from warriors who had fought the Chickamauga, the Choctaw, the Iroquis, a home is more then a place or an accident of birth....it is land I would die for, land that others of my family have died for...it is part of us.and I am part of it...romaticizing perhaps...but true nonetheless and infinitely better in my opinion then just an accident of birth.

You seem to misunderstand my definition of accident of birth. It is all well and good that you have a sense of history in your locale, and you can be as emotive as you like. But that is not the same as being PROUD of your country. Accident of birth means that it's something over which you have no control. And you must admit that you never made a conscious decision to be born on this land. Quite simply, you cannot take pride in things your grandfather and ancestors did, because you had nothing to do with them.

You seem to misunderstand my definition of accident of birth. It is all well and good that you have a sense of history in your locale, and you can be as emotive as you like. But that is not the same as being PROUD of your country. Accident of birth means that it's something over which you have no control. And you must admit that you never made a conscious decision to be born on this land. Quite simply, you cannot take pride in things your grandfather and ancestors did, because you had nothing to do with them.

A cultural gap from which I'm afraid you can't quite grasp...we are all connected in the Circle of Life..what affects me affected my grandfather, what affects him will affect my granchildren if any come to being..I can take justified pride..not because of what I did..but because of who they are, and what they meant to me.

And you are whom that would tell us why we can kill others for?
I'm the man with the big stick. I mean I'm not alone. We just outnumber you. If you kill someone for a reason so poor as patriotism, you get punished, unless you hide it very well. Look what happened to the nazis, despite their overwhelmingly technological advance.

I'm the man with the big stick. I mean I'm not alone. We just outnumber you. If you kill someone for a reason so poor as patriotism, you get punished, unless you hide it very well. Look what happened to the nazis, despite their overwhelmingly technological advance.

Really..big stick huh..looks more like a pathetic twig...while you may outnumber us..you'll never agree on any one subject long enough to do anything, and those parties that benefit from their association with us won't shoot themselves in the foot to please people like you...so just where do you stand again?..oh yeah..up a creek without a paddle.

A cultural gap from which I'm afraid you can't quite grasp...we are all connected in the Circle of Life..what affects me affected my grandfather, what affects him will affect my granchildren if any come to being..I can take justified pride..not because of what I did..but because of who they are, and what they meant to me.
I'll accept that there is quite a cultural gap there. But very few patriots justify their beliefs using that kind of religious argument. That said, I still disagree on principle with your position and I still challenge someone to justify patriotism without reference to metaphysical entities.

Really..big stick huh..looks more like a pathetic twig...while you may outnumber us..you'll never agree on any one subject long enough to do anything, and those parties that benefit from their association with us won't shoot themselves in the foot to please people like you...so just where do you stand again?..oh yeah..up a creek without a paddle.Try it. Kill a commie and let's see if you can get away with it.

Try it. Kill a commie and let's see if you can get away with it.


Ahm..we did..we drove the North Koreans all the way to the 38th Parallel, and even after a huge number of ChiCom reinforcements we still managed to push them back after they overran our UN positions..and we did it again in South Vietnam...and Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded...oh yes..we killed more then a few commies..or at the very least..got others to do it for us....so what was that you were saying again?

Ahm..we did..we drove the North Koreans all the way to the 38th Parallel, and even after a huge number of ChiCom reinforcements we still managed to push them back after they overran our UN positions..and we did it again in South Vietnam...and Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded...oh yes..we killed more then a few commies..or at the very least..got others to do it for us....so what was that you were saying again?I looks like you didn't get away with it in south vietnam, did you?
In Afghanistan, the people you hired to kill did not let you get away either.

Ahm..we did..we drove the North Koreans all the way to the 38th Parallel, and even after a huge number of ChiCom reinforcements we still managed to push them back after they overran our UN positions..and we did it again in South Vietnam...and Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded...oh yes..we killed more then a few commies..or at the very least..got others to do it for us....so what was that you were saying again?

Conan - The adventurer
Conan - warrior without fear
he's more powerful than any man his legend spreads across the land and sea.

Conan the mightiest warrior ever
his quest to undo the spell of living stone cast upon his family
by driving the evil serpent men back into another dimension
and vanquishing their leader - the cruel wizard Wrath-Amon.

Conan The adventurer
Conan man of bravery
with his manic sword protecting the mightiest warriors is he

http://www.funet.fi/pub/culture/russian/html_pages/images/sna_label.jpg

Ahm..we did..we drove the North Koreans all the way to the 38th Parallel, and even after a huge number of ChiCom reinforcements we still managed to push them back after they overran our UN positions..and we did it again in South Vietnam...and Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded...oh yes..we killed more then a few commies..or at the very least..got others to do it for us....so what was that you were saying again?

Let's look at that Afghanistan example. Are you sure it was "commies" who got killed, or were they mostly just painfully young men conscripted into a stupid war by the country where they just happened to be born? Were America's dead in Vietnam all fighting for free-market capitalism, or were they mostly just painfully young men conscripted into a stupid war by the country where they just happened to be born?

Spanish to the gas-room !!*!!

BTW people please do not feed the troll. Arguing with England my england is useless.

Wrong Psylos, it is useless for you to argue with me, because you are blatantly not able to enter debate.

For example, when you said something ridiculous about patriotism being about superiority, I replied, and you said no more because, I can only assume, you are incapable.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6703773&postcount=25

There's the point. Reply.

Others here, who I may disagree with, can atleast put together a decent argument.

Wrong Psylos, it is useless for you to argue with me, because you are blatantly not able to enter debate.

For example, when you said something ridiculous about patriotism being about superiority, I replied, and you said no more because, I can only assume, you are incapable.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6703773&postcount=25

There's the point. Reply.

Others here, who I may disagree with, can atleast put together a decent argument.

http://www.gonaxos.com/img/photoalbum/people/old-man-4.jpg

Imagine I came into your house and began to beat up your dad.

I would hope that you would protect him. That doesn't mean you think that he is the worlds best dad, does it now.

You protect him because he is your dad, same is you would protect your country, because it is YOUR country.

Frankly, if I saw you beating up anybody I'd do my best to stop you -- because thugs and yahoos are a blight on humanity, and I like to think of myself as a human being. What's your point?

Or, according to you, devoted to those members of a nation with a certain skin tone. Which, frankly, is even more moronic than devotion to a geographical expression: devotion to a certain subgroup of individuals born within a geographical expression, as defined by the shade of their epidermis.

'By the shade of their epidermis' - I assume that you are implying that skin colour is all there is to race. Which is a ridiculous sentiment, which I am prepared to rip apart if you so wish.

I love my country. But I do not love foriegners who come to Britain and are then called British.

It is true that no one is pure British, as Europe is completely mixed up, genetically, but there still exists the white people that populate Europe, and indeed Britain. Real British people are white.

Being European is genetic. Being British is more of a state of mind and upbringing.

You lost me after the sesame street one, but yes patriotism gets on my nerves. There is no nation in this world who has the right to say "we are the best nation in the world", because there's no such thing.
I have to agree. No one nation is "The Best". It is what is so great about the world, every country has different things that make it great for one reason or another. Although not all nations have something great about them.

Frankly, if I saw you beating up anybody I'd do my best to stop you -- because thugs and yahoos are a blight on humanity, and I like to think of myself as a human being. What's your point?

Ok, if I was having a mutually fueled fight with your father, that was no more my fault than his, you would help your father. Because he is your father.

My point is that you would help your own first, and that is what I believe in, on a larger scale.

Ok, if I was having a mutually fueled fight with your father, that was no more my fault than his, you would help your father. Because he is your father.

My point is that you would help your own first, and that is what I believe in, on a larger scale.

Well, I think I would try to separate you, certainly, and the idea that you and my dad would be having a "mutually fuelled" physical fight with you or indeed anybody is ludicrous, but I'll go with it. OK, he's my dad. I love him, he raised me, etc etc etc. But to go from there to embracing everybody who happens to be born within the same geographical/political fiction as myself to the extent that I would fight alongside them come what may is fatuous in the extreme.

Let's try another example. You are, I assume, from the UK. So am I. You get into a "mutually fuelled" fight with some guy from, say, Greenland. You think I'm going to intervene on your side? Dream on, pal. The best you can hope for is that I'd call the police and get the pair of you huckled.

heheh,ironically, England My England, your argument about 'you would help your father. Because he is your father', is part of an old Muslim saying, which goes along the lines of: "Brother will fight brother but they will band together to fight their cousin".

I'm English, and I think the UK is a shithole, and I wouldn't even consider giving up my life for it. So you wanna string me up? Call me a traitor? Ask yourself, what circumstances have caused me and many others to feel this way? Maybe if we had something to be proud of (apart from correct spelling and the world standard for quality television and radio - the BBC) I'd consider it. But as it stands, no.

Tell me, do you read The Sun, The Mirror, or any other toilet paper substitute? You sound like fucking 'Angry from Oldham' in a Sun letter page: 'Let's kick out the darkies and be separate from Europe (so we can stagnate in our own shitness even more)'...

Tip: engage brain before opening trap, it never fails. ;)

I didn't open any trap. The fact is that you are a traitor.

If your ancestors are British, then I hope any ancestors more than 70 never have to see your attitude. Millions died in WW2 so that you could live in this 'shithole'. I think we have much to be proud of - AND THAT DOES DEFINITELY NOT INCLUDE THE BBC.

Please, elaborate on what makes the UK a 'shithole'. For God's sake, don't say the weather.

When we had no 'darkies' and were seperate from Europe, you think we 'stagnate in our own shitness'. Pick up a history book you dipshit.

I tell you what, you fuck off and live somewhere else, and leave Britain to the real British people, who really value this nation, and the sacrifices our ancestors made for it. Do not force yourself to live in such a shithole.

You're probably only 12 anyway, so maybe one day you'll generate a bit of sense. Or get hit by a train. Either suits me.

heheh,ironically, England My England, your argument about 'you would help your father. Because he is your father', is part of an old Muslim saying, which goes along the lines of: "Brother will fight brother but they will band together to fight their cousin".

What's your point? Just because someone thinks along the same lines as me doesn't mean that I'm going to give them my country.

i'm from england as well, and I am proud of what British people have done that have stood them apart from most others, and as such I feel as though I am "patriotic" (a fuzzy word if ever I saw one). However just because I am patriotic I dont instantly feel the need to fight and die in iraq for to secure oil for bush and his arse-wiper tony blair - and I dont think that makes me a "traitor"

That bloke who said that class was everything in marxist communism is sadly missing the point. "everyone is equal" - obviosly shows that, just because a person is born into a rich family, he cant have influence over and poorer person - which is exactly what class is.

oh and England My England you sound like a racist bigot

There's nothing patriotic about fighting an unjust war against Iraq. I fail to see how that is protecting Britain in any way.

The problem with 'everyone is equal' is that everyone isn't equal. It's just a load of rubbish.

'Racist' and 'bigot', there's another 2 words people use wrongly.

oh and -Karl Marx- you sound like a communist cocksucker.

I didn't open any trap. The fact is that you are a traitor.

If your ancestors are British, then I hope any ancestors more than 70 never have to see your attitude. Millions died in WW2 so that you could live in this 'shithole'. I think we have much to be proud of - AND THAT DOES DEFINITELY NOT INCLUDE THE BBC.

Please, elaborate on what makes the UK a 'shithole'. For God's sake, don't say the weather.

When we had no 'darkies' and were seperate from Europe, you think we 'stagnate in our own shitness'. Pick up a history book you dipshit.

I tell you what, you fuck off and live somewhere else, and leave Britain to the real British people, who really value this nation, and the sacrifices our ancestors made for it. Do not force yourself to live in such a shithole.

You're probably only 12 anyway, so maybe one day you'll generate a bit of sense. Or get hit by a train. Either suits me.

Just a small question: how proud do you think the dead of WW2 would be if they knew that you were flirting with the same racist ideology they fought against? Don't you think that's a bit of a betrayal -- if we're going to be bandying such words about?

Another point you didn't raise, is what if the fight is justified on your part?
Would you be prepared to defend your father if he had deliberately run over (or even raped) that person's child? (or invade a country without any realistic justification).
See, you can't use examples like that as there are always exceptions. Of course, if it was a completely unprovoked attack I would defend my father, but once you analyse the example, it comes very blurred.
Likewise with countries, if you can fully and morally justify it, there is no reason why you shouldn't come to the defence of your country (eg WWI & II). However, when politicians (delibrately) falsify the reasons why we should invade another country, should we still have to come to their defence? (notice it's their as in the politician not the country).

Without sounding too patronising, England et al, might I suggest you log off now. Your arguments are becoming less reasoned and more vitrolic towards simple-minded abuse. It does ruin everything else you've had to say tonight (personally I can't endorse much of it, but as you right-wingers like to mention when facing arguments from the left, at least we are fortunate enough to live in a society that allows these differences of opinions).
It's just that I have enjoyed arguing with you , but now it seems to be getting into petty name-calling, which blights any decent arguments you might have had.

Another point about WW2 for you, England My England: Britain didn't lose "millions": the total British war dead, military and civilian, was around 350,000. More than enough, though.

Of course, there were many more casualties in the British army, sustained by the hundreds of thousands of Commonwealth troops who came from all over Africa, from Australia, Canada, India and what would become Pakistan, New Zealand, the West Indies, etc etc etc. They all bled too. Tell me, why don't you embrace all these as "yours"?

Just a small question: how proud do you think the dead of WW2 would be if they knew that you were flirting with the same racist ideology they fought against? Don't you think that's a bit of a betrayal -- if we're going to be bandying such words about?

Are you trying to say that the people of Britain heard about Hitler and yelled 'racist, let's kill the racist'. They didn't fight against racism.

World War 2 was fought 1. because we did not want to be run by foriegners - the Germans, 2. because the British sense of justice was enraged by the genocide that Hitler was running.

Churchill 'flirts' with nearly exactly the same views on race as I have - that there is nothing wrong with other races, but they shouldn't live amongst us. Churchill hated communists, and he also claimed that communism was run by the Jews, for which most of you would probably called him a Nazi.
Churchill loved Britain and despised people who forbade him to do so, which seems to be the whole purpose of this thread.

Britain was built by people who thought along the same lines as me. It is being pulled down by people who think along the same lines as you.

If world war 3 kicked off tommorow, people like me would stay and fight. A lot of you would just piss off and hide.

Also, you seem to imply that my ideology is the same as that of the Nazis, which it isn't. I do not believe in the 'Master Race', and I do not believe in authoritarianism, and I do not appreove of any form of genocide.

Another point about WW2 for you, England My England: Britain didn't lose "millions": the total British war dead, military and civilian, was around 350,000. More than enough, though.

Of course, there were many more casualties in the British army, sustained by the hundreds of thousands of Commonwealth troops who came from all over Africa, from Australia, Canada, India and what would become Pakistan, New Zealand, the West Indies, etc etc etc. They all bled too. Tell me, why don't you embrace all these as "yours"?

I embrace them readily as friends.

I do not embrace them as my countrymen.

Far more Muslims fought for the Nazis than fought for the Allies. I read somewhere a senior Muslim of the era who said that no governing style was better suited to Islam than fascism. I'll try and find it.

Wrong Psylos, it is useless for you to argue with me, because you are blatantly not able to enter debate.

For example, when you said something ridiculous about patriotism being about superiority, I replied, and you said no more because, I can only assume, you are incapable.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6703773&postcount=25

There's the point. Reply.

Others here, who I may disagree with, can atleast put together a decent argument.
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6703773&postcount=75

Without sounding too patronising, England et al, might I suggest you log off now. Your arguments are becoming less reasoned and more vitrolic towards simple-minded abuse. It does ruin everything else you've had to say tonight (personally I can't endorse much of it, but as you right-wingers like to mention when facing arguments from the left, at least we are fortunate enough to live in a society that allows these differences of opinions).
It's just that I have enjoyed arguing with you , but now it seems to be getting into petty name-calling, which blights any decent arguments you might have had.

I will not resort to any more name calling. It is just that a couple of the posters particularly annoyed me.

I will not resort to any more name calling. It is just that a couple of the posters particularly annoyed me.Good. Then stop trolling please.

England et al, I think they mean you are more along the lines of Fascism ("A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism"), rather than Nazism.
Typically the two (three if you count Libertarianism, another far-right ideology) get blurred together easily (rather like Socialism, Marxism and Communism).
I would opine that you think more along the lines of Oswald Mosley's British Fascism, briefly popular during the late twenties/early thirties.

Are you trying to say that the people of Britain heard about Hitler and yelled 'racist, let's kill the racist'. They didn't fight against racism.

World War 2 was fought 1. because we did not want to be run by foriegners - the Germans, 2. because the British sense of justice was enraged by the genocide that Hitler was running.

Churchill 'flirts' with nearly exactly the same views on race as I have - that there is nothing wrong with other races, but they shouldn't live amongst us. Churchill hated communists, and he also claimed that communism was run by the Jews, for which most of you would probably called him a Nazi.
Churchill loved Britain and despised people who forbade him to do so, which seems to be the whole purpose of this thread.

Britain was built by people who thought along the same lines as me. It is being pulled down by people who think along the same lines as you.

If world war 3 kicked off tommorow, people like me would stay and fight. A lot of you would just piss off and hide.

Also, you seem to imply that my ideology is the same as that of the Nazis, which it isn't. I do not believe in the 'Master Race', and I do not believe in authoritarianism, and I do not appreove of any form of genocide.

If world war 3 kicked off tommorow, people like me would stay and fight. A lot of you would just piss off and hide.

Also, you seem to imply that my ideology is the same as that of the Nazis, which it isn't. I do not believe in the 'Master Race', and I do not believe in authoritarianism, and I do not appreove of any form of genocide.

WW3 is probably going to be started by 'patriots' like you. Thinking along the same lines.
In 1939 very few Brits had a clue about the genocide that been committed, at that stage Hitler had the same idea as you, that the races should be separated. You appear to be heading down that road. You think you mean well, but then again so did he.
Edit: Just run it by me how that the UK is being pulled apart?

Thanks for that England. It was beginning to ruin my night and make me think less of you.

Are you trying to say that the people of Britain heard about Hitler and yelled 'racist, let's kill the racist'. They didn't fight against racism.

World War 2 was fought 1. because we did not want to be run by foriegners - the Germans, 2. because the British sense of justice was enraged by the genocide that Hitler was running.

Number 1 is close -- it had more to do with eventually realising that Hitler's racist little empire had to be stopped or we'd be next. Number 2 is complete cack, I'm afraid: the British establishment didn't credit reports of Nazi genocide until mcuh later, and the British public didn't find out about it until the camps started to be liberated. However it remains a fact that the British and Commonwealth troops who died, died fighting an ideology based in part on the division of humanity by "race" -- and you seem to be flirting with at least that element of their ideology.

Churchill 'flirts' with nearly exactly the same views on race as I have - that there is nothing wrong with other races, but they shouldn't live amongst us. Churchill hated communists, and he also claimed that communism was run by the Jews, for which most of you would probably called him a Nazi.
Churchill loved Britain and despised people who forbade him to do so, which seems to be the whole purpose of this thread.

Yes, Churchill was an aggressive alcoholic racist, that's true. He was useful to us as a war leader but as soon as the war was as good as won the British people booted him out and elected a socialist government. You have to do unpleasant things in war, and being run by Churchill was one of them.

Britain was built by people who thought along the same lines as me.

Name a few, and justify this statement.

It is being pulled down by people who think along the same lines as you.

Again, justify this please.

If world war 3 kicked off tommorow, people like me would stay and fight. A lot of you would just piss off and hide.

If WW3 kicked off tomorrow, "staying and fighting" would be just as stupid as "pissing off and hiding". Vapourised is vapourised. Do you want to be a heroic cloud of gas, or a self-preservationist one? But it's good to know that, as well as having an enormous IQ, you are also able to determine exactly who would do what under any given circumstance. Or are you -- gasp! -- jumping to judgemental conclusions based on practically no information at all?

Also, you seem to imply that my ideology is the same as that of the Nazis, which it isn't. I do not believe in the 'Master Race', and I do not believe in authoritarianism, and I do not appreove of any form of genocide.

Well, that's good to hear. You do, however, spout off quite a lot of bullshit about "race", for example your earlier claim that "real British people are white". This is solely your definition, and carries not the slightest shred of legal, political, historical or scientific truth. It's a very revealing definition, though, and does kind of mark you out as a racist and a bigot. Despite the fact that you and I come from the same geopolitical fiction, I am happy and proud to say that I, and my father, and indeed my entire extended family and everyone I know, would oppose your unpleasant and foolish stance wherever and however we could.

As an off-hand comment, did you know that had there been legislation allowing for the first born to become soveign ruler of England, instead of the first born son, the Kaiser would have been King of England?

England my England here's a few books that may be of interest.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0099366819/qid=1091633945/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-5906222-4100655
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0349104840/qid=1091634043/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-5906222-4100655
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0349104808/qid=1091634021/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-5906222-4100655
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0349105987/qid=1091634084/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-5906222-4100655
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0349106711/qid=1091633996/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-5906222-4100655
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/014101038X/qid=1091634130/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_3_2/202-5906222-4100655
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0099285681/qid=1091634154/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-5906222-4100655
Educate yourself.

I love my country. But I do not love foriegners who come to Britain and are then called British.

It is true that no one is pure British, as Europe is completely mixed up, genetically, but there still exists the white people that populate Europe, and indeed Britain. Real British people are white.

Being European is genetic. Being British is more of a state of mind and upbringing.

I've gone back and read this over now several times, and I'm still confused as to what you're trying to say. The statement that "Real British people are white", like the following statement "Being European is genetic" has no legal, scientific or historical basis; it's just a baseless, knee-jerk, uninformed opinion.

So far so ignorant. But it's the final sentence that's really confusing me:

"Being British is more of a state of mind and upbringing."

To me, this would seem to include people of any shade, hue, ethnic origin etc, since none of these things have any bearing on a person's state of mind or upbringing. How do you square this with your obsession with genetics?

I can't vouch for all of these books, but Age of Extremes is one of those book I recommend to everyone. We're going to lose a hell of lot when Eric Hobsbawm dies. He is one of the best historians ever.

Being British means you are registered as British by the british government. Nothing less, nothing more.
If your race was involved, I would be british, even though I have never set foot on Britain. If it was your values, or something like that many people would be british without even knowing where Britain is on a map.

interesting pictures..

http://www.gonaxos.com/img/photoalbum/people/old-man-4.jpg

Grandpa!!

What?

LOL....LMFAO....ROFL....11 pages of people arguing with a guy who says things like "Real British people are white." Have none of you ever heard of a webboard antagonist? This round really must go to the sad little racist. He beat you all quite badly because you actually responded to his nonsense. He is probably a clever 13 year-old boy having the time of his life. There was one person who tried to stop you....

I'm an American, so I know a thing or two about patriotism. If I want to argue about it, I can go stand outside a WalMart and engage the drooling halfwits that comprise 25% of this country. I don't though, because I hate Twinkie breath and beer spittle. Every time I buy candy bar or work an hour, I help eviscerate another family living in an adobe hut in Mesopotamia with my money. Know what? I don't worry about it. Why should I? I cannot DO anything about it. I'm not a politician. I can't stop it. Why argue about patriotism? It is a subject for people who overemphasise a fictitious self. Just be a good person. Unless you are in uniform or government, you aren't going to have an impact on world events. If you're a hopeless xenophobe like E my E, the most you'll amount to is a sodomizing or a beating. Live your little life, in your little corner of your county, and be the best person you can be. I just try to remember that the bombs are smart now. Hopefully when the US or UK get their comeuppance, our aggressors will have access to this wonderful technology. Hopefully everyone knows that we aren't ALL ignorant warmongering infants. If not, then a nuke it will be. Gotta go sometime, I guess......

Oh, and England my England, good job buddy. Everyone wanks it, but it takes a real man to reach through a phone line and wank three dozen people in a single night. You rock!

Unenlightened patriotism is no more than rank, unthinking nationalism of the kind that gave rise to the likes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin. Fascism results from a populace that allows patriotism to become a bludgeon to use on those who would loyally question their government. Nazism, Fascism, and Stalinist Communism are all tied in with nationalism, wrapped up very prettily in a flag or a song.

"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." -- Oscar Wilde

As an off-hand comment, did you know that had there been legislation allowing for the first born to become soveign ruler of England, instead of the first born son, the Kaiser would have been King of England?
I think history would have become very interesting if that happened!

There is nothing wrong with loving your country.



Patriot - n. A person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country.

It has absolutely nothing to do with superiority. Personally, I would suggest that anyone who wasn't a patriot, was a traitor. And then I'd suggest that traitors should be strung up.

Sadly, I don't think there's enough rope. :(

Exactly, I'm patriotic but I don't think the U.S.A. is superior to any other country.

The love of one's country leads to the hate of another.

Patriotism is a value we should all embrace! Anyone who sez different is a communist!


yes. but patriotism isn't this pep rally bullshit that's taken over the states since 9/11. this is fake. patriotism is believing in the potential of your constitution to make life better. not cheering for a bad president just because he's the president or singing god bless america every morning or painting everything red white and blue. that has nothing to do with patriotism.

I am profoundly convinced that all forms of nationalism represent nothing but the worst misfortune for humanity, and that everyone should pursue the objective of creating a harmonious human race. It is true that the nationalism of oppressed peoples – as a natural act of self-defence – is far more excusable than the nationalism of peoples that oppress; yet although the nationalism of the strong is ignoble, the nationalism of the weak is unwise; both engender and support one another, and they constitute a vicious circle of misfortunes, from which humanity will never escape unless all of us give up our collective self-love and try to stand on completely neutral ground. That is why I, despite the heart-rending suffering of my people, do not wish to adhere to Hebrew nationalism, but rather to work only for the cause of absolutely just human relations. I am profoundly convinced that this will do my unfortunate people more good than nationalistic strivings.

Charles Chaplin



Now Charlie Chapline truly WAS a communist!

Charlie was a great philosopher as well.

As an off-hand comment, did you know that had there been legislation allowing for the first born to become soveign ruler of England, instead of the first born son, the Kaiser would have been King of England?


King of England? King of Britain

I read this thread through, and people consistently use the word "Communist" as if it meant something, which it does not. Everyone in China is a Communist. People living in communal environments are communists. Charlie Chaplin was a Communist.....sheesh! The word is more meaningless than "liberal', "agnostic", or "anarchist". But, since people insist on using it (kinda like "axis of evil", my personal favorite) without knowing what it means, I HEREBY DECLARE MYSELF A COMMUNIST!. The world just got more mysterious for us all. The cold war can now begin anew. (Drools....)

I have (hand on heart) an IQ of 151 - and a note of invitation to join Mensa.
BULLSHIT ALERT

So, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, Enland My England's idea of patriotism is keeping the "foreign devils" out of your country and blindly supporting whoever is in power at the time? Yep, that'd be super - every country in the world could have a 100 foot tall superwall around their borders, to keep free of "foreign contamination". Any citizen who refused to smile all the time and sing the national anthem at least twice a day would be stoned...

I'm also assuming if he doesn't want immingrants "poluting" his country, then any scientific or medical breakthroughs developed in another country should be banned from England, just in case they might contaminate the "stiff upper lip, pip pip and all that" spirit that made England the nation that it is today.

How about compulsory wearing of boler hats?

I bet your the kind of guy who sleeps under a giant portrait of Queen Elizabeth on one wall and a union jack on the other. Did you also hero worship Thatcher when she was in power? I'm also guessing you're from a comfortably wealthy upper-middle class to upper class family, and have had everything you ever wanted in life handed to you on a silver platter, judging from your condescending attitude and "it's my opinion so it must be right" mentality (still waiting for some kind of proof other than your opinions)...

Mind you, all of these hypothesis are based on the fact that you aren't simply a troll making ridiculous pompous statements to ellicit a response. ;)

more morons than the world can handle. if only communism had killed all the communist....


100,000,000 people killed at the hands of communism.

12,000,000 at the hands of Nazis

so, let me get this straight, Nazi's were worst?

Hmmm, who was it that said one death is a tragedy, one million is meerly a statistic. well lets take this one step further. 100,000,000 people if you average it about 160 lbs per person (I think) so 100,000,000 X 160 = amount of dead flesh generated by communism.

12,000,000 X160 = Dead flesh generated by Nazism.

cough morons cough

the left wing nut jobs have purged alot more people than the "so called" (finger movements) right wing.

Nazism WASNT EVEN A REAL GOVERNMENT. IT WAS A TOOL TO BE USED BY HITLER TO PURIFY THE HUMAN RACE!!!

Facism WAS a government fasioned by Mussolini, and it DID NOT share the same beliefs. Hitler took Mossolinis model, and fasioned it as a tool! not a real government!

So, lets see here, Facism is a form of dictatorial conservative government, which by the way didnt kill all the political dissenters, it just gave them castor oil untill they relented. The people were to be for the government, and the government comes first.

Nazism A demented messed up mans usage of a facist model, implemented as a tool, and wrped into his own needs, not serving anything but the destruction of humans. The government didnt co0me first, killing the im-pure did

Communism, a whacked out theory of making humans act like machines with equality that turned into a shithole of a mess because it was a dumb idea to start with. HUMANS ARE GENETICALLY CODED TO COMPETE, not SHARE EVERYTHING. sure you may say you are, but how would you like to share a toothbrush? hmm how about my underwear, oh and part of my half eaten brekfast, and then you can share my condom...

Humans dont share. Humans get things the have multipuls of and give. if someone shares a device or tool its not that important because its something they can cope with, and get back. Humans are all run by greed, and greed is good. Greed is why we survived and the rest didnt. We are greedy about life, and abhore death. Unless its killing each other. Killing each other releases the ultimate "thrill" because we are wired to be the best.

Why are there serial killers? because they are the ones who would have survived during the ice age, killing animals for food as masters of skill. Now we dont need them, and they must be killed, and their genetics wiped off the face of the earth.

lets explore some more governments children. Democracy, everyone votes. the united states is not a democracy, it is a republic, we vote in reps, who vote on issues, speeding the government up.

Military Dictatorship, the military rules all, (usually communist) and all who oppose die.

here is one of theose communist offshoots, Socialism.
And no it doesnt mean socializing with friends, it is the one step below communism. Distributed income, sharing things again. just not your toothbrush, so the government takes money you break your back for, and gives it top some schmuk who wont go find a job because hes scamming the system. thats fair....

Theocracy (sp)

Church rulez d00d. Meaning the relegion that is dominant rules a region (utah) and does not allow free speach in most cases (utah) and also will silence who oppose and call them heritics (utah). It is ruled by one relegious leader, like a pope, or Hinckley (utah). They sometimes can controll a country, or a state (utah) in this setting, they infiltrate the larger houses of government for influence (Orin Hatch [Utah])

and now i leave you with the most evil remark made by any man alive

"whaa happen?"

go see a might wind to understand......

As an off-hand comment, did you know that had there been legislation allowing for the first born to become soveign ruler of England, instead of the first born son, the Kaiser would have been King of England?

So the Kaiser was a girl?

pardon pardon here...


but where does the 100.000.000 dead people come from?
and please don't tell me it's from the black book of communism... 'cause that book is so far off...

So the Kaiser was a girl?

:D

i think the poster meant the otherway around :rolleyes:

more morons than the world can handle. if only communism had killed all the communist....


100,000,000 people killed at the hands of communism.

12,000,000 at the hands of Nazis

so, let me get this straight, Nazi's were worst?

Hmmm, who was it that said one death is a tragedy, one million is meerly a statistic. well lets take this one step further. 100,000,000 people if you average it about 160 lbs per person (I think) so 100,000,000 X 160 = amount of dead flesh generated by communism.

12,000,000 X160 = Dead flesh generated by Nazism.

cough morons cough

the left wing nut jobs have purged alot more people than the "so called" (finger movements) right wing.

Nazism WASNT EVEN A REAL GOVERNMENT. IT WAS A TOOL TO BE USED BY HITLER TO PURIFY THE HUMAN RACE!!!

Facism WAS a government fasioned by Mussolini, and it DID NOT share the same beliefs. Hitler took Mossolinis model, and fasioned it as a tool! not a real government!

So, lets see here, Facism is a form of dictatorial conservative government, which by the way didnt kill all the political dissenters, it just gave them castor oil untill they relented. The people were to be for the government, and the government comes first.

Nazism A demented messed up mans usage of a facist model, implemented as a tool, and wrped into his own needs, not serving anything but the destruction of humans. The government didnt co0me first, killing the im-pure did

Communism, a whacked out theory of making humans act like machines with equality that turned into a shithole of a mess because it was a dumb idea to start with. HUMANS ARE GENETICALLY CODED TO COMPETE, not SHARE EVERYTHING. sure you may say you are, but how would you like to share a toothbrush? hmm how about my underwear, oh and part of my half eaten brekfast, and then you can share my condom...

Humans dont share. Humans get things the have multipuls of and give. if someone shares a device or tool its not that important because its something they can cope with, and get back. Humans are all run by greed, and greed is good. Greed is why we survived and the rest didnt. We are greedy about life, and abhore death. Unless its killing each other. Killing each other releases the ultimate "thrill" because we are wired to be the best.

Why are there serial killers? because they are the ones who would have survived during the ice age, killing animals for food as masters of skill. Now we dont need them, and they must be killed, and their genetics wiped off the face of the earth.

lets explore some more governments children. Democracy, everyone votes. the united states is not a democracy, it is a republic, we vote in reps, who vote on issues, speeding the government up.

Military Dictatorship, the military rules all, (usually communist) and all who oppose die.

here is one of theose communist offshoots, Socialism.
And no it doesnt mean socializing with friends, it is the one step below communism. Distributed income, sharing things again. just not your toothbrush, so the government takes money you break your back for, and gives it top some schmuk who wont go find a job because hes scamming the system. thats fair....

Theocracy (sp)

Church rulez d00d. Meaning the relegion that is dominant rules a region (utah) and does not allow free speach in most cases (utah) and also will silence who oppose and call them heritics (utah). It is ruled by one relegious leader, like a pope, or Hinckley (utah). They sometimes can controll a country, or a state (utah) in this setting, they infiltrate the larger houses of government for influence (Orin Hatch [Utah])

and now i leave you with the most evil remark made by any man alive

"whaa happen?"

go see a might wind to understand......
Troll warning.
Oh and BTW, the white people killed more people than the communists -> every white is a murderer.