NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm just curious, but what is your stance on illegal immigration (for Americans)

A) I love it so much, I escort the people over the border!

B) I advocate it

C) I tolerate it

D) We need more guards on the borders

E) We should build a fence

F) SHOOT EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM THAT COMES ACCROSS!!!!!!!!

(NOTE: I did not make a poll because I want people to POST their responses and then explain why)
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I personally choose "F". The horrid open policy is a threat to national security -- both Mexican AND Canadian borders. There are Americans living on welfare -- get THEM to to the jobs that the illegal immigrants are taking!

I had a nice big ol' paragraph, but it slipped my mind. If people start to challenge my choice, some of my thoughts might come back.

There are Americans living on welfare -- get THEM to to the jobs that the illegal immigrants are taking!
Most people who live on welfare simply don't want jobs; it isn't that they can't find them.

The myth that immigrants steal jobs is just that; a myth. Generally they get stuck with poorly paying jobs that you don't want anyway.

I'm Canadian, but I chose a combination of D and E.

I pick A just because of how retarded a and f were and you had already picked f as your own answer.

*edit: there is a fence smart guy.

There is a fence, but it is in such a crappy state, it might as well not be there. And like people can't cut through a fence, or crawl under it, or plow a truck through it. We need something 10x better than the Berlin wall, attack dogs, machine gun towers, mines, a moat full of acid, another moat full of sharks.

I say F!

Most people who live on welfare simply don't want jobs; it isn't that they can't find them.

The myth that immigrants steal jobs is just that; a myth. Generally they get stuck with poorly paying jobs that you don't want anyway.

I wont call BS on you if you can show some proof that most people on welfare don't want jobs.

But I will call BS in advance because I already know that you have no proof.

I love people of all nations no matter who they are or how misguided they are because of whatever upbringing they had. I am not against letting people into the country but as long as we know who is comign thru and can track them easily.

We should have tight control of our borders and there are a billion reasons why. I think immigration is a good thing but should be tightly regulated.

They are stealing our jobs. Just the other day I passed by a farm and I saw some illegal immigrants picking crops for minimum wage. And I though briefly, "Man, what a great job that is. I wish.." and then my voice died in my heart, as I knew that because of the illegal immigrants I could never get my ideal job stooped over some strawberries all day. Then all hope left my body and I considered either suicide, or shooting every illegal immigrant I saw... for the strawberry picking jobs they stole from every aspiring worker citizen, like me, born in the US.

Most people who live on welfare simply don't want jobs; it isn't that they can't find them.
Bullshit, but there is a point in this about righties not being able to have it both ways (People on welfare are too lazy to get jobs, Illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from Americans on welfare)

Personally I think that immigration enriches cultures, and that diversity is to be strived for. I do think that it should be done within the law though.

All the jobs in tele-marketing, communications etc, that are being sent to India or China, are those jobs americans don't want?


You call a 1-800 number for a company based in New York, you get routed to Bombay India.


14 million such jobs have gone from the USA in the last decade, and the end is nowhere in sight.

What about all these pakistani and indian engineers and technicians, they come here, the US workers must train their own replacements and then go find a new job, if they can.

Personally I think that immigration enriches cultures, and that diversity is to be strived for. I do think that it should be done within the law though.


Yes yes, diversity did wonders of Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, Zaire, Cambodia, USSR. Diversity is an idea that has been proven false and wrong so many times it is not funny. What is even less funny is the number who have died when forced to live with people they want nothing to do with.


If you put a cougar and a chicken in a cage, it won't be pretty.

Who cares if jobs "go" elsewhere? If you like them so much, you can go follow them.

"Protecting" "American jobs" is a stupid thing. If Bob in Foreign Land is willing to work a certain amount and do a certain task and a US company is willing to pay him a certain amount to do it, I see no problem.

Yes yes, diversity did wonders of Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, Zaire, Cambodia, USSR. Diversity is an idea that has been proven false and wrong so many times it is not funny. What is even less funny is the number who have died when forced to live with people they want nothing to do with.


If you put a cougar and a chicken in a cage, it won't be pretty.
LOL! And race-mixing is a crime against humanity, right?

I live in a multicultural society. There are problems, but I prefer that to the idea of growing up in a culture where everyone is the same.

Who cares if jobs "go" elsewhere? If you like them so much, you can go follow them.

"Protecting" "American jobs" is a stupid thing. If Bob in Foreign Land is willing to work a certain amount and do a certain task and a US company is willing to pay him a certain amount to do it, I see no problem.

Go to Pakistan, where many hate the west, a fight is raging in Kashmir, and there are terrorists cells operating with impunity in remote rural regions.


I think not!

hmmmm
given that i know several former illegal aliens....

i tolerate it.

for the most part they make a good addition to the country, but i would prefer it if they could come in legally.

my father in law says that it depends on whether or not the economy of mexico is good at the time.

if the economy is bad, most illegal aliens coming from mexico are looking for a better life, they are mostly honest hard working people

if the economy of mexico is good, then there is no big reason for the honest hard working people to risk their lives coming here, so it tilts more toward the drug runner, looking for welfare hand outs type.

it could be true.

there is no reason to gun down people looking for a better life.

i say d. but many people on welfare just simply dont want jobs.. the immigrants will work and they do a good job for meager earnings

...but I prefer that to the idea of growing up in a culture where everyone is the same.

But that does not mean everyone is like that! I personally prefer unity and solidarity, or as you called it "where everyone is the same"...I feel more comfortable with the familier.

But even what you said is a falsehood!, Groups are made up of individuals, all of which can be different, despite being part of the same race and culture.

I say that we need more guards on the borders. I have no problem with immigration, just do it legally like my ancestors did. I have a real problem with the fact that out of state students in Kansas are being charged more for college tuition than illegal immigrants. Note: I'm not from Kansas but I do know that the situation above is currently being challenged by parents of out of state students in court. I have a real problem with illegal immigrants getting social welfare when they haven't paid a dime into the system and are most likely not paying taxes at all.

But that does not mean everyone is like that! I personally prefer unity and solidarity, or as you called it "where everyone is the same"...I feel more comfortable with the familier.

But even what you said is a falsehood!, Groups are made up of individuals, all of which can be different, despite being part of the same race and culture.
Yeah, of course there are some differences, but I believe that greater differences lead to challenges, leads to an interesting and stimulating environment.

I choose a combination of B & C. I don't mind people coming into our country from other places, I just think they need to know English when they come here. In my town there are tons of Spanish speaking adults that have to have their children translate for them everywhere they go. You can't come into a country and expect everyone to know your native language. People don't have time to figure out what you are trying to say.

I have to say I dislike the benefits they receive given they (and their employers) in most/all(?) cases don't pay taxes on their wages. It's quite rediculous to feed, cloth, and provide assistance to those that have purposely and willingly broken the law when we have enough citizens (legalized or natural born) who have needs who would be taxed for the wages they earn and the services they receive (if they reached a certain income level). The idea of providing for them is crazy :headbang: they're unwanted (and in most cases unskilled and only semi-educated) criminals; the ultimate parasite and moochers of 'the system'.

Unfortunately, the US un/semi-skilled labor force has become the Manuel labor force because of lazy citizens who feel the work is beneath them (nevermind that they're as uneducated and even less motivated than the illegals are). Employers revel in the cost savings of hiring employees who don't want benefits, who don't gripe and complain about overtime, and who don't have to be paid minimum, living, or union wages. So, to keep their bottom line intact, they're more than willing to break the laws themselves. If the 'demand' wasn't there, the 'supply' would be hard pressed to keep coming (or going oversees so to speak).

I think those that go through the system with all it's pitfalls and troubles and dealing with the crap they do should be 'rewarded' with citizenship status -though I'm not sure paying taxes is a reward- and those that buck the system should be punished as the criminals they are and sent right back across.

Overall, I'd go with D and E myself. Make it as undesirable and as difficult as possible for them to get into the country and the slackers won't try it (or they will and will give up eventually), only those truly motivated enough will make it, and they'll be the ones more likely to work anyway if they make it.

It's a necessary evil to enjoy certain things (cheap housing, agricultural products, domestic services, etc.), but don't weclome them with open arms and reward them for making it over the border and staying illegal (what was Kalifornia thinking?), reward them and offer them everything 'we citizens' have (or don't have) when they make a 'contribution' to society by becoming citizens.

I'd go for something that translates to "D".

Also, what's with illegal immigrants claiming benefits? Do you guys have an office with a hundred envelopes stuffed with cash they hand out to anyone? If you're like the UK then you can't claim benefits unless you've got the right documentation. And if you're an illegal immigrant (NOT to be confused with assylum seakers) then you don't have that documentation so you can't claim the benefits.

As for them taking jobs - ie: working harder for less in jobs no one wants - you should be cracking down on the companies which hire illegal immigrants. Once the incentive to cross the border is gone, not many people will.

I'm just curious, but what is your stance on illegal immigration (for Americans)

I personally choose "F". The horrid open policy is a threat to national security -- both Mexican AND Canadian borders. There are Americans living on welfare -- get THEM to to the jobs that the illegal immigrants are taking!

I had a nice big ol' paragraph, but it slipped my mind. If people start to challenge my choice, some of my thoughts might come back.

First I would chose D because we need better crossings and guards. But trust me my uncle was an immigrant from Mexico and the job he had was not a job that you could get any american to take working in the feilds from sun up to sun set bent over all day in the scorching heat. LOL yeah I can see most city folk doing that. I grew up in the country and we did alot of raising our own veggies... I dont see you getting alot of welfare people to take the jobs that the immigrants take. I really dont. Most of them take the jobs that nobody else want.

Nothing is stupider then when some one says... Illegal immigrants are taking jobs from Americans. Well were I live, most of the immigrants take the farm labor jobs, jobs that are to good for even the out of work, driving a better car then me welfare check getting people. Now mind you not all that get welfare abuse the system. Just like not all immigrants are here illegally.

But, this country was founded on immigration and I think that it should stay that way with one exception. I think that you should have to be here X number of years before you can make a claim on the welfare system. Not the unemployment system but the welfare system.

I also think that to come over you should have proof of employable skills even if it is farm skills. Hell if they want to work the fields that is all good. I am not ashamed that my uncle was a farm laborer.. he was proud of what he did.. that and damn did that man have a kick ass garden.

But... dont get all violent and think we need to shoot those trying to get a better life... if you lived in squalor you would be fence climbing to.

I say F we also need land mines all along the border then when the land mines blow up there will be craters so connect the craters together then to the ocean then put gates that allow the salt water in on the new river that was created then fill it with fish and sharks.

I say F we also need land mines all along the border then when the land mines blow up there will be craters so connect the craters together then to the ocean then put gates that allow the salt water in on the new river that was created then fill it with fish and sharks.
This post is an example of why it doesn't matter if we allow people to come into the country when they can't speak the language: there are people here who can't either.

This post is an example of why we shouldn't allow people to come into the country when they can't speak the languages

I don't feel like typing with full grammar right now. And I did not spell any words wrong.

I don't feel like typing with full grammar right now. And I did not spell any words wrong.
Actually it was the punctuation I took issue with.

Actually it was the punctuation I took issue with.

I meant punctuation, I am sleepy right now.

E

I'm not American but I'm with option F all the way. :mp5:

there are several issues at work here. i'll focus solely on the immigration aspect, and leave the legality to someone else.

immigration, in itself, was the foundation of America. for many years it was unlimited. in my mind, relatively unrestricted immigration to America was beneficial until one cultural group began emigrating from their homes to come here.

that group i will broadly call "Hispanic."

why am i making these claims? am i racist? do i hate spanish-speaking people?

the vast majority of EVERY group that has emigrated to come to America has sought to integrate themselves as quickly as possible. they learn english, take jobs, and generally try to live the "America Dream." nearly all have children who are more successful than they were, speak fluent english, and if there is a strong hold on their cultural background, it is a conscious decision made by parents who hope that future generations will not lose sight of where they came from.

and our most recent group, hispanic people? fewer speak English, and most who do not speak fluently have little wish to learn. not since the Germans within the decades of our founding has there been serious consideration of a language other than English being even remotely "official."

if you immigrate, learn the culture and language of your new home. keep your heritage, by all means, but don't expect to be catered to when you refuse to adopt the customs of your new home. in short, get a visa, learn english, get a job, get your citizenship, and make a concerted effort to INTEGRATE.

They are stealing our jobs. Just the other day I passed by a farm and I saw some illegal immigrants picking crops for minimum wage. And I though briefly, "Man, what a great job that is. I wish.." and then my voice died in my heart, as I knew that because of the illegal immigrants I could never get my ideal job stooped over some strawberries all day. Then all hope left my body and I considered either suicide, or shooting every illegal immigrant I saw... for the strawberry picking jobs they stole from every aspiring worker citizen, like me, born in the US.

I'm not entirely sure about the situation in the US, but I have a feeling the same may apply. About a year or so ago the EU published a report, saying that immigration was needed, in order to keep the European economies viable. The fact is, most developed countries have an ageing population, and we don't have enough skilled (or unskilled) labour. In Britain, in the 1950s, there was all this scare-mongering about immigration. Today, we have a problem. All those 'free-loading darkies' are now reaching retirement age, and we now face a crisis because we are suddenly going to lose many Indian doctors, but binmen and the like, who came here, and took the crappy jobs that we deemed were below us. We need immigrants, but I sympathise with the anti-immigration viewpoint. Myself, I think a stream-lined immigration process would be best - quicker to let the immigrants find work, quicker to get the bogus asylum-seekers out.

F, personally. I'm in favor of removing restrictions on immigration, but only if they enter legally. They should be screened for diseases and given backround checks before they come in. Otherwise, there's too much of a threat that the immigrants will bring in a new disease, a new agricultural pest, be a convicted criminal, or possibly a terrorist. Shooting them will certainly drive the point home that immigration is allowed, but OUR BORDERS AREN'T OPEN! This should apply to US citizens illegally re-entering the country, too.

There is a fence, but it is in such a crappy state, it might as well not be there. And like people can't cut through a fence, or crawl under it, or plow a truck through it. We need something 10x better than the Berlin wall, attack dogs, machine gun towers, mines, a moat full of acid, another moat full of sharks.

I say F!
The fence actually works good, but the problem is that there's a huge gap: the Senora Desert. No one thought anyone but a few smugglers would dare risk that route, but they have. There are about 100 Mexicans every year that die from thirst trying to cross that desert.

there are several issues at work here. i'll focus solely on the immigration aspect, and leave the legality to someone else.

immigration, in itself, was the foundation of America. for many years it was unlimited. in my mind, relatively unrestricted immigration to America was beneficial until one cultural group began emigrating from their homes to come here.

that group i will broadly call "Hispanic."

why am i making these claims? am i racist? do i hate spanish-speaking people?

the vast majority of EVERY group that has emigrated to come to America has sought to integrate themselves as quickly as possible. they learn english, take jobs, and generally try to live the "America Dream." nearly all have children who are more successful than they were, speak fluent english, and if there is a strong hold on their cultural background, it is a conscious decision made by parents who hope that future generations will not lose sight of where they came from.

and our most recent group, hispanic people? fewer speak English, and most who do not speak fluently have little wish to learn. not since the Germans within the decades of our founding has there been serious consideration of a language other than English being even remotely "official."

if you immigrate, learn the culture and language of your new home. keep your heritage, by all means, but don't expect to be catered to when you refuse to adopt the customs of your new home. in short, get a visa, learn english, get a job, get your citizenship, and make a concerted effort to INTEGRATE.

Thank you!!! That was the thought that slipped my mind.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/immigrant.gif

I wont call BS on you if you can show some proof that most people on welfare don't want jobs.
Yeah, sure, I'll give you the phone numbers of my cousins. If they even have phones, that is.

This thread is shaping up to be so xenophobial I wasn't even going to post anymore....

I think Canada and Mexico need more border patrols and fences. Perhaps then they can get some control over those damned American illegals.

We say build more fences and train more guards. But what we really want to
advocate is a massive educational plan to have perhaps some bilingual American teachers, go over the border of Mexico and educate the people in english fluency, American History, and other subject areas that are pertinant to an immigrant's success here in the states. Germany has this sort of agreement with Denmark where just over the border in Germany are Danish schools, and vice versa just over the border in Denamrk. I have personally seen the positive effects of this educational rational. Whether you are in Germany or Denmark(within 50 mi of the borders proximity say) these people are actually trilingual. Each country has citizens that speak danish, german and yes the world buissness language, english. I went up to a hot dog vendor and I was amaized at this guy! Picture this: I (the american) my wife(a german) and her friend(a Dane) all go up to this guy to get a hot dog and he speaks perfect 3 languages to all of us! Amazing! And a freakin hotdog vendor to boot! These two countries share thier culture and language with one another and it has benefitted both. Many Texans are becoming increasingly bilingual in Spanish however the Mexican immigrants, do not seem to share the respect for the english language as we do the spanish one. This pisses me off to no end. I believe we should make the English language our official one and force these immigrants not only to be somewhat skilled before they enter our borders, but also have a decent working knowledge of English.
This would simply benefit everyone in the sense that they have something to offer, and we have a respect for thier honor and courtesy. Right now we cater to non speaking immigrants way too much in my opinion. I would also make foriegn language compulsory starting in elementary school so we as Americans can be more informed, respectful, and intelligent when we travel abroad.

Eh...I live in Northwest Arkansas which, because of the nearby Wal Mart and Tyson headquarters, is kind of like New Mexico City...

The impression that I get is that almost all of them speak both languages (maybe English not so well), but they refuse to speak it except when it is necessary. If they'd just speak it more often, they'd get some practice. Their kids (like 7 year olds) who have to speak it all the time in school and such speak perfect English.

Yes.

I would not mind it AS MUCH (exept the fact it is a matter of National Security) if the Mexicans, etc, would ASSIMILATE. If you don't want to assimilate, GET THE HELL OUT! Also, you HAVE to shoot them. You can catch them, and deport them, and three days later, there going through those rows of posts placed every twenty feet.

Also, the Mexican illegal invasion could be exactly that --- an invasion. The massive illegal immigration is SPONSORED by the Mexican government, and if any of those people are armed, that classifies as an invasion, and should be dealt with as such.

Bush pissed me off on this issue, though. That Workers program, what the hell is up with that???

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And for your Europeans, you have one thing right that I wish America would pick up on -- study foreign languages EARLY. I personally wish to become fluent in German and Latin, but, as a ninth grader, I am getting my first taste of German (they don't offer Italian :( ), and that is too late to become very fluent in it. I also kind of want to learn Russian, too.

w00t! I sucessfully hijacked my own thread!!!!

Now back to the main topic.

And for your Europeans, you have one thing right that I wish America would pick up on -- study foreign languages EARLY. I personally wish to become fluent in German and Latin, but, as a ninth grader, I am getting my first taste of German (they don't offer Italian :( ), and that is too late to become very fluent in it. I also kind of want to learn Russian, too.Dude, it's never "too late" - I started French in 9th grade and I'm proficient enough in it that I think I could find my way around people who speak no English.

Now talk about thread hijacking...

I would also make foriegn language compulsory starting in elementary school so we as Americans can be more informed, respectful, and intelligent when we travel abroad.


Then I'd say pull the kids out of school. I'd say homeschool before sending kids to a brainwashing factory!


English spoken here!

The world can take a hike!

This is the USA not the USSR or the Eastern Bloc Poland, Comrade!

F

Communist Mississippi, you are right and wrong.

Yes, English MUST to be the one and only language spoken in America, but foreign languages are good for better communicating to the world to get the hell out of United States' business, and making trade deals, etc.



Borders
Language
Culture

These are the three main aspects that define and make a strong, united nation. All of these are being violated in one form or another with these open borders.

Borders -- Self-explanitory. The borders are virtually non-existant. That is one of the reasons that the EU has a ton of power. THe European states have no borders whatsoever, practically.

Language -- If a nation does not have one defined language, division amongst the nation WILL occur.

Culture -- Again, division amongst the nation. (btw, "culture" has to be loosely defined) If there is not some sort of unified culture in the nation, it will split.

Eh...I live in Northwest Arkansas which, because of the nearby Wal Mart and Tyson headquarters, is kind of like New Mexico City...

The impression that I get is that almost all of them speak both languages (maybe English not so well), but they refuse to speak it except when it is necessary. If they'd just speak it more often, they'd get some practice. Their kids (like 7 year olds) who have to speak it all the time in school and such speak perfect English.

Know what you're talking about. Once had a retail job while in college, and had to have this guy's 8 or so year old son translate from me to his no english speaking father because he wanted to buy a game console.

F, shoot the lot of them. If their country is so damn crap that they would rather leave and either work for crap wages or be o income support in another country, then maybe they should stop being such cowards and face their problems rather than run away. If they have problems in their own country, then stay there and fix them, dont move to a white country and then start whining about exploitation, racism, etc.