NationStates Jolt Archive

Please, I see so much hate and dislike of the Bush followers (if there are any) in this forum, so if there are people who believe he is doing the right thing, please come here and post. I sure as hell do.

*a tumbleweed blows gently across this thread*

Maybe not, I just made the thread.

Please, I see so much hate and dislike of the Bush followers (if there are any) in this forum, so if there are people who believe he is doing the right thing, please come here and post. I sure as hell do.
More like pro-Bush/Anti-American thread.

Dancing Moose, bro, I wish I could buy ya a coupla beers. You're hard-core sh*t, man. Seriously, dude, you rock. Anybody who likes W. is one of my dogs. Put it there, man. :)

First bone of contention is the equating of "pro Bush" with "pro America." They're not necessarily the same thing.

More like pro-Bush/Anti-American thread.

Bro, if I ever hear you make fun of Bush agin Ill paste ya one. Aint nobody gonna inslut our best presdent in front of me! :mad: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :upyours:

Bush Sucks!!!

First bone of contention is the equating of "pro Bush" with "pro America." They're not necessarily the same thing.

Yes they are, bro. Seriously! :rolleyes:

I LOVE AMERICA

um.... that is all

Bush Sucks!!!

:upyours: :upyours: Say it again and Ill paste ya one! :upyours: :upyours:

:sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Bro, if I ever hear you make fun of Bush agin Ill paste ya one. Aint nobody gonna inslut our best presdent in front of me! :mad: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :upyours:
Bush is a whiny inconsiderate poopy-head


:D

Oh, and how do you inslut someone?

First bone of contention is the equating of "pro Bush" with "pro America." They're not necessarily the same thing.

Why what do you mean....

Please people, back what you say.

I LOVE AMERICA

um.... that is all

then obvoiusly you love Bush

well one thing is for sure, those :mp5: haven't flown anymore planes into our buildings. Bush is stronger on defence then that war criminal Kerry ever would be. Did you know Kerry served in Vietnam!

:upyours: :upyours: Say it again and Ill paste ya one! :upyours: :upyours:

:sniper: :mp5: :gundge:
BUSH SUCKS BUSH SUCKS I CAN KICK YOU ASS!

Bush is a whiny inconsiderate poopy-head


:D

Oh, and how do you inslut someone?

Inslult, you know, make fun of. Are you a dude or a chick? Cause if you ain't a chick, bro, I might gotta paste ya fun for talkin back to me. :upyours:

BUSH SUCKS BUSH SUCKS I CAN KICK YOU ASS!

Bro, Im 42 years old, got 10 homedogs up in my crew, and Im a biker. How the h*** you gonna kick my ass? :rolleyes:

Of course. When Kerry was a senator he turned down 4 different pieces of military hardware which were essential to Americas defense. Demos will give away this country.

then obvoiusly you love Bush

I love America I said... so of course I would dislike Bush as s/he is skrewing up the USA big time.

But this was a Pro thread so that was where I was keeping it.

Fat Smelly Bastards - I am not pro-you, that is for sure. And I wasn't anti-you until you started sounding like Bush and wanting to squash any dissent with violence.

well one thing is for sure, those :mp5: haven't flown anymore planes into our buildings. Bush is stronger on defence then that war criminal Kerry ever would be. Did you know Kerry served in Vietnam!

All I kno is Kerrys a jerko pinko butthole dweebie dork dumbsh*t lameball.

Bro, Im 42 years old, got 10 homedogs up in my crew, and Im a biker. How the h*** you gonna kick my ass? :rolleyes:

oh homeboys im so smeggen scared and biker is just a short way of saying Im not secrae with my sexulaty

Bush is an anormal. Bush és un subdotat :mad:

Inslult, you know, make fun of. Are you a dude or a chick? Cause if you ain't a chick, bro, I might gotta paste ya fun for talkin back to me. :upyours:
Have fun. Newark Delaware.

I love America I said... so of course I would dislike Bush as s/he is skrewing up the USA big time.

But this was a Pro thread so that was where I was keeping it.

Fat Smelly Bastards - I am not pro-you, that is for sure. And I wasn't anti-you until you started sounding like Bush and wanting to squash any dissent with violence.

Bro I might of flukned 10 grade 2wice, but let me teach you sum math:

ProBush= Love America NotProBush= Hate America

'Nuff said

i'm terribly fond of this country. especially my right to say what i am displeased with in the government. it is still a representative DEMOCRACY.

oh homeboys im so smeggen scared and biker is just a short way of saying Im not secrae with my sexulaty

Bro, how big are you? Im 6 5 and I way over 400 ponds. You really think we could take me on?

Bro, Im 42 years old, got 10 homedogs up in my crew, and Im a biker. How the h*** you gonna kick my ass? :rolleyes:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

poor you if that is true.

Bush is doing exactly what this country needs. The UN voted 17 times to put sanctions on Iraq. And what did Iraq do? They laughed in the UN's face and gassed 100,000 people. Bush saw that the UN didnt know what they were doing and sent in troops to remove the satanic dictator.

Now please people, back up what you have to say because right now it just not making sense.

Have fun. Newark Delaware.

You didnt nev'er even answewr my question. You a dude or a chick? I dont hit no girls, so if you are one I aint gonna hit ya.

Bro, how big are you? Im 6 5 and I way over 400 ponds. You really think we could take me on?


Makes it sound like your going to be slow so It would be easy to kick your ass and you know that gut? not musslae

Bro, how big are you? Im 6 5 and I way over 400 ponds. You really think we could take me on?
So, you're an overweight biker?

You didnt nev'er even answewr my question. You a dude or a chick? I dont hit no girls, so if you are one I aint gonna hit ya.
So you do hit women?

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

poor you if that is true.

No what? Im sick to deth of people flaming ol boy in these threads. I aint never gonna post nothing in here NEVER EVER AGAIN!!!!!!! Good BYE. You lame-o jerkos aint never gonna see my ass moseyin around here again

FSB, I am sure that your Bush loving friends are hating that you are on their side. lol

No what? Im sick to deth of people flaming ol boy in these threads. I aint never gonna post nothing in here NEVER EVER AGAIN!!!!!!! Good BYE. You lame-o jerkos aint never gonna see my ass moseyin around here again
How many times has he said that now?

Bush is doing exactly what this country needs. The UN voted 17 times to put sanctions on Iraq. And what did Iraq do? They laughed in the UN's face and gassed 100,000 people. Bush saw that the UN didnt know what they were doing and sent in troops to remove the satanic dictator.

Now please people, back up what you have to say because right now it just not making sense.

Again.

No what? Im sick to deth of people flaming ol boy in these threads. I aint never gonna post nothing in here NEVER EVER AGAIN!!!!!!! Good BYE. You lame-o jerkos aint never gonna see my ass moseyin around here again


#8 he will be back in 6 hours

Again.
No. Get your time frame right, and it turns out that he was telling the truth about his WMD. Imagine that.

CSW are you a girl or aint ya not that it matters, cause I aint never comin back EVER AGAIN. You and Irondin are just imature cause I got me girls and cause Im a badass biker. Evryone of you are imatre. Cant even have a nice polite educaetd cialized conversatoin without flamin nobody. Good BYE

CSW are you a girl or aint ya not that it matters, cause I aint never comin back EVER AGAIN. You and Irondin are just imature cause I got me girls and cause Im a badass biker. Evryone of you are imatre. Cant even have a nice polite educaetd cialized conversatoin without flamin nobody. Good BYE


I lay odds that 1/1 he will be back

No. Get your time frame right, and it turns out that he was telling the truth about his WMD. Imagine that.

Prove it. How do you know he hasnt buried them in the desert somewhere, or given them to Syria?

He still killed 300,000 of his own people, so if it wasnt that then it would be something else.

I lay odds that 1/1 he will be back
I don't think that anyone will take those.

How many times has he said that now?

Hmmm....(counts each finger and toe) Hmmm...uh, mind if I use your fingers and toes to count, too?

I would like to take this time out to thank all of you right wing conservative republicans who do not act like the fat smelly one whos name or initials I will not mention. I appreciate each and every one of you. *kiss* :fluffle:

dear god. :(

personally i think bush is one of the worst presidents weve ever had, and thats just from common sense.

the reason bush is still a force is because dumbass people who will threaten violence instead of staying on politics find it easy to follow him. and i have a lot of respect for dancing moose, who is actually trying to say something instead of making stupid threats. if only there were more people like that, debating bush would be more fun.

and if you believe that not liking the president means being against the country, you obviously have no idea of how great america is. not liking the president for logical reasons is one of the most american things possible. remember hes not your king. hes your PRESIDENT. we have more people in the american government than just bush.

Thank you people, even if there is a disagreement politically between me and someone else, I still respect that persons views.

Now, I want you to back up that Bush is 'violent'. He did use violence to promptly stop the killing in Iraqi, something the UN would have never accomplished.

Yes they are, bro. Seriously! :rolleyes:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."
- President Theodore Roosevelt

Well, since y'all conservo-creeps will NOT do us liberals the courtesy of staying off threads you aren't wanted on...and YOU won't keep your unwanted/uninvited comments to yiurselves...do NOT expect that courtesy on this thead, from THIS liberal!

I am SO sick and tired of you conservo-creeps tying pro-Bush and pro-America together to the point where dissent against Bush is considered anti-American!! Goddamn it, dissent is one of the greatest, and most cherished of all American rights...and goddamn it, it is far more patriotic, when you see your country headed down a path you feel is wrong...to speak up and dissent...than it is to blindly, out of some misguided idea of "patriotism," follow your dumb-assed "leader" right off a cliff!

Just because WE won't swill the kool-aid with you conservo-creeps, it does NOT make us liberals anti-American, goddamn it, and I, for one, will not tolerate the insinuation that we ARE unpatriotic, or un-American, just because WE do not agree lock, stock, and barrel with everything Chimpy does from the Oval Office.

I can't wait till Nov.3, when I can tell George...YOU ARE SOOOOOO FIRED!!!

Kerry/Edwards '04!!
WoooooHooooo!!
Bye-bye, neocon plunderers and brokers of evil!!

Well standing by the president would increase the level of patriotism you reflect onto your country.

Bro I might of flukned 10 grade 2wice, but let me teach you sum math:

ProBush= Love America NotProBush= Hate America

'Nuff said

This person has me rolling in agony because I'm laughing so hard. While I type this, I'm having trouble typing because I'm laughing at the absurdity of the commentary and the outright stupidity. Alright, well. I'm anti-Bush. I'm anti-Bush not because he's a republican. Because he's repugnant, overbearing, insulting to the intelligence (and intelligencios) of the United States, and patently offensive to just about every other nation on earth. He doesn't think about anything he does, he makes snap ideological, dogmatic decisions which we're lucky haven't gotten us nuked yet. I totally disagree with him on his stance on gay marriage, because no one in this nation should be treated as a second class person. And he has turned the economy into a joke. lol. I'm also a Jew, and we tend to vote as a block. lol. Anyways. My opinion. But for the record, if John McCain were running for something I might vote for him. He's a republican but he's honest, competent, and thoughtful. Shalom.

Prove it. How do you know he hasnt buried them in the desert somewhere, or given them to Syria?

He still killed 300,000 of his own people, so if it wasnt that then it would be something else.
Not my burden. You have to prove that he broke a resolution, not the other way around.

We don't go to war for that.

:upyours: :upyours: Say it again and Ill paste ya one! :upyours: :upyours:

:sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

BUSH SUCKS!!!!

Come on now, look what Bush has accomplished.

Since 9/11 and Bush's War on Terrorism, there hasn't been another terrorist attack on the homeland.

Libya's dicatator has abandoned it's WoMD program.

Al Quada has lost most of it's leadership.

Afghanistan is due to have it's first free elections in years.

Iraq is making steps in the right direction.

It's fine if you want Kerry to win, but then again, so do the terrorists...

Well standing by the president would increase the level of patriotism you reflect onto your country.


*coughs* Germany.....1930's and 40's? Stand by the leader whatever happens? Do as your told?

awesome misschief.

i wont even get into why were in iraq. nobody really knows the answer.

i supported bush through 9/11. until we were sinking in iraq, his actions seemed ok. i realized its because the country as a whole was beont on revenge. which is natural. but not something to base military action on.

overthrowing a murderous dictator was a good thing. if that was said openly to be the reason for war, and nonviolent methods were attempted first, i might see it as a necessary evil, though i dont like war to begin with. the fact that we jumped to the guns with a fuzzy reason makes "violence" come to mind

Come on now, look what Bush has accomplished.

Since 9/11 and Bush's War on Terrorism, there hasn't been another terrorist attack on the homeland.

Libya's dicatator has abandoned it's WoMD program.

Al Quada has lost most of it's leadership.

Afghanistan is due to have it's first free elections in years.

Iraq is making steps in the right direction.

It's fine if you want Kerry to win, but then again, so do the terrorists...
Yes...and there wasn't a terrorist attack on the homeland in over 5 years preceeding 9/11.

BUSH SUCKS!!!!

Labrador, just ignore that idiot. Maybe then he'll go away for good. (Or is that hoping for too much?)

Not my burden. You have to prove that he broke a resolution, not the other way around.

We don't go to war for that.

He didnt break a resolution, he ignored it.... 17 times.

Yes...and there wasn't a terrorist attack on the homeland in over 5 years preceeding 9/11.

That's true.

He didnt break a resolution, he ignored it.... 17 times.
Point? Prove that he was in violation of 1441.

Bush is doing exactly what this country needs. The UN voted 17 times to put sanctions on Iraq. And what did Iraq do? They laughed in the UN's face and gassed 100,000 people. Bush saw that the UN didnt know what they were doing and sent in troops to remove the satanic dictator.

Now please people, back up what you have to say because right now it just not making sense.

ok the sanctions were put in place after gulf war 1 when he was gasing the kurds Reegan and cheeny were still a. selling him weapons and b funding his regime,

As i think runsfeld or cheeny once said "he might be a bastard but he is our bastard"

Violence breads violence to vote for a extreme hard line is a vote for terroism case study number 1 Israel; Palastine. Therefore to vote for bush is to vote to increase support for Bin Laden so a vote for bush is a vote agaisnt America.

A Network like Al-Quaedas can only be broken by the people who run it its way too segmented and unorganised to fall apart under pressure. The only way to really break it is to run a Nazi/ Stalinistic like censorship network (bad idea) which cannot be done pratically done by a liberal democracy. (any critisism is dealt with harshly is all i meant).

Otherwise the only realistic option you can do is to stop the negative feeling toward the west for one that means No wars of aggresion no support for a hard line approch in Israel (they need to defend themselves but somewhere at sometime somebody has to extend the olive branch). Look at northan ireland whilst its not perfect things are improving and its better than 10-20 years ago when a harder line was taken.

dude. john mccain is most of the reason im an independent and not a democrat. i would have picked him over gore any day.

*a tumbleweed blows gently across this thread*

cute.

well one thing is for sure, those :mp5: haven't flown anymore planes into our buildings. Bush is stronger on defence then that war criminal Kerry ever would be. Did you know Kerry served in Vietnam!

Say what you will about Kerry, AT LEAST HE SERVED IN VIETNAM!! Chimpy chickened out and went to Texas...then Alabama, then AWOL.

You don't be silent when you see a chickenhawk...who refused to serve when he was called upon by his country to do so...begin to play fast and loose with OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES...especially under false pretexts.

I supported Afghanistan. We abandoned them. I would have suppported action against a REAL THREAT...like North Korea. Never a chance. Instead, on false intel, to make a grab for oil and to settle up a personal grudge, Bush has gotten over 900 Americans KILLED in Operation Inigo Montoya!

The American people know. You can't trust FAUX News to keep them blind anymore. America is finally awakening. You neo-con power brokers days are numbered...you are grasping at starws. come November, thank God, you will all be out on your asses, and may the Grace of God insure people like you NEVER get power in America again!!

I'd have voted McCain too... still would

bush had so many people protested bushs first election. imagine the riots if he gets, dare i say, reelected? *shudder*

and im all for breaking laws for ideology, but going against a UN resolution with no real proof is either not well thought through or for a shady motive

Yes...and there wasn't a terrorist attack on the homeland in over 5 years preceeding 9/11.

LoL, and Bush planned 9/11 right?

During Clinton's presidency, the WTC was bombed in 1993 by Osama bin Laden, Clinton ignored the problem in Somalia, was urged by his advisors to realize the threat of Osama bin Laden and didn't take him even when offered his head by the Saudis.

Clinton's solution to Al Quada was by firing a few cruise missiles at them, Bush went in and did the job right.

Remember, Bush was only President for a short time before 9/11, the WTC would have been attacked if Gore had been President, there was nothing that could be done to reverse Clinton's mistakes.

For the last time:

BUSH SUCKS!!!!!!

Fat smelly, I can give you my adress here in Norway, I bet the judges will have mercy on some fat biker dude who beat up some 16 year old for no other reason than using the right of free speech.

dude. john mccain is most of the reason im an independent and not a democrat. i would have picked him over gore any day.

John McCain has done brilliant things. I find the Democrats wayyy too conservative for me sometimes, but that man is a good man. He does things because of what his constituents want, and not because of what his ideology and dogma dictates. He, unlike the prez, would not be in bed fallating the Christian right. I'm furious at Bush's stupidity and his pandering. He's ignored the institution we support to make actions taken on the global stage democratic (the UN). But he did NOT have the right to go into Iraq and do anything. It was wrong, wrong, wrong. It would be just like saying you wanted to knock over North Korea just because it's communist. You have no right to do that. Until they hurt you, or someone else. Then there is cause. I'll put it this way. Bush makes me hearken back to the days where Americans thought it was their "manifest destiny" to take land from natives etc. He just oooozes arrogance.

For the last time:

BUSH SUCKS!!!!!!

Fat smelly, I can give you my adress here in Norway, I bet the judges will have mercy on some fat biker dude who beat up some 16 year old for no other reason than using the right of free speech.


Wow, what a well thought out post, can anyone say anything besides "Bush sucks!"?

Bro I might of flukned 10 grade 2wice, but let me teach you sum math:

ProBush= Love America NotProBush= Hate America

'Nuff said

How do you figure that? You are nothing but a poor blinded, Kool-aid swilling, blindly loyal to a fault enemy of America. Can you not see the people that you so blindly follow without question right now...are running America into the ground??

A TRUE patriot stands up and speaks up when he sees the "leaders" doing things that ruin the country he loves. He does NOT...out of a misguided sense of "patriotism" sit down, shut up, and watch the so-called leaders wreck the country he loves!

How do you figure that? You are nothing but a poor blinded, Kool-aid swilling, blindly loyal to a fault enemy of America. Can you not see the people that you so blindly follow without question right now...are running America into the ground??

A TRUE patriot stands up and speaks up when he sees the "leaders" doing things that ruin the country he loves. He does NOT...out of a misguided sense of "patriotism" sit down, shut up, and watch the so-called leaders wreck the country he loves!

Power to the people, Lab.

Bush is a failure,nuff said. GO JOHN KERRY!

Bush is a failure,nuff said. GO JOHN KERRY!


I'd say that post pretty well sums up the intelligence of Democrats.

Bush is a failure? How convincing....

Bush has gotten over 900 Americans KILLED in Operation Inigo Montoya!

Now that, my friends, is a beautiful allusion.

I wont get caught up in the draft thing. I dont like war. I dont like murder. I wont be a hypocrite: if i got drafted i would get my ass to canada. But the point that clinton made at the DNC is important: Kerry voulunteered to serve, and then protested the atrocities after having seen them and done them himself. I have respect for that because i sure as hell wouldnt have gone.

I like Bush, he might not be the smartest President we ever had, but he sure as hell as a heart to be one. And for everyone say he is a liar and what not, him and every other Politician are ones. It takes degree of lying to get into any office for ANYONE.

Bush is doing exactly what this country needs. The UN voted 17 times to put sanctions on Iraq. And what did Iraq do? They laughed in the UN's face and gassed 100,000 people. Bush saw that the UN didnt know what they were doing and sent in troops to remove the satanic dictator.

Now please people, back up what you have to say because right now it just not making sense.

Let's see...originally, the reason for war with Iraq was some sort of WMD's? Then, when it was proved there WEREN'T any...or nowhere NEAR what was claimed...and certainly not NEAR enough to threaten the US...suddenly, the reason for Iraq changed to "a connection" between al-Queda and Saddam. How many of you blind kool-aid swillers still believe that one?
THEN, it became about "liberating the Iraqi people."

Well, you know what? As noble a calling as "liberating the Iraqi people" might have been...IT WAS NOT FUCKING WORTH 900 AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES...IT WAS NOT WORTH DRAWING TROOPS AWAY FROM THE HUNT FOR BIN-LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN...IT WAS NOT WORTH IGNORING REAL THREATS LIKE NORTH KOREA!!

Why can't you neocon, kool-aid swilling fools see it for what it really is?? Iraq is nothing short of Operation Inigo Montoya!

Iraq is Arabic for "Vietnam!!"

I think Bush is doing an awesome job. I am amazed people cannot see how much he and his administration has done to bring us as far as we have come in 3 short years. In this time, we have managed to come back from a tremendous and devastating assault on our nation and economy, and have managed to defend ourselves against the enemy who has made overt and blatant statements about wanting to wreak more devastation on our nation. I wish people could see that this is not just an election to choose between Bush and Kerry, but a choice between an established administration that is experienced in terrorist threats and defending us as a people. If Bush leaves office, so does Condi, Powell, Rummy, and possibly Ridge. I personally don't want our nation to be led by a bunch of people who are not familiar with the issues, who are essentially newbies, and who will have a learning curve to face...a learning curve at a time when we cannot afford any mistakes.

LoL, and Bush planned 9/11 right?

During Clinton's presidency, the WTC was bombed in 1993 by Osama bin Laden, Clinton ignored the problem in Somalia, was urged by his advisors to realize the threat of Osama bin Laden and didn't take him even when offered his head by the Saudis.


There is so much wrong with this paragraph that I don't know where to start...


How about with: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Let's see...originally, the reason for war with Iraq was some sort of WMD's? Then, when it was proved there WEREN'T any...or nowhere NEAR what was claimed...and certainly not NEAR enough to threaten the US...suddenly, the reason for Iraq changed to "a connection" between al-Queda and Saddam. How many of you blind kool-aid swillers still believe that one?
THEN, it became about "liberating the Iraqi people."

Well, you know what? As noble a calling as "liberating the Iraqi people" might have been...IT WAS NOT FUCKING WORTH 900 AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES...IT WAS NOT WORTH DRAWING TROOPS AWAY FROM THE HUNT FOR BIN-LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN...IT WAS NOT WORTH IGNORING REAL THREATS LIKE NORTH KOREA!!

Why can you neocon, kool-ad swilling fools see it for what it really is?? Iraq is nothing short of Operation Inigo Montoya!

Iraq is Arabic for "Vietnam!!"

Not quite. Bush isn't betraying the soldiers as blatantly as LBJ and Tricky Dick did.

Nycton makes a great point. Almost every candidate ever has had to do some serious truth stretching and outright lying. This is another reason for my independent-ness. Back the issues, not the candidate. It prevents a dictatorship. Choose on what matters. Not on angry Vietnam service rants.

Now, I want you to back up that Bush is 'violent'. He did use violence to promptly stop the killing in Iraqi, something the UN would have never accomplished.
Yup, he stopped Saddam killing his own people and turned that job over to American soldiers, as it should be. *Hopes the sarcasm is apparent*

Bush is "violent" because he abused the power he has to totally skip diplomacy and went straight to blowing things up. He's also technically awar criminal because he invaded a UN member without provocation and without permission from the UN council. Tell me how a man who's quicker to draw a gun than to try to talk things out isn't voilent.

This is especially true with Clinton. He wasnt a great man by any means. He was an adulterer and a perjurer. But what he did while in office brought us into a great time. Dont lose sight of that.

I'd say that post pretty well sums up the intelligence of Democrats.

Bush is a failure? How convincing....
Name ONE thing he has done right!
I'll make a more worded post later,but I'm tired and am going to take a nap.

Right, but Bush, as my backing of my statement, is contradictory of even his own top advisors. I forget who it was but someone said "There is an increased chance, from [insert intelligence here], that a terrorist attack will happen"

That day or a couple days later he says "The American People are safe!" 8 times in a 32 minute speach. Now someone please tell me that that isn't contradictory.

Let's see...originally, the reason for war with Iraq was some sort of WMD's? Then, when it was proved there WEREN'T any...or nowhere NEAR what was claimed...and certainly not NEAR enough to threaten the US...suddenly, the reason for Iraq changed to "a connection" between al-Queda and Saddam. How many of you blind kool-aid swillers still believe that one?
THEN, it became about "liberating the Iraqi people."

Well, you know what? As noble a calling as "liberating the Iraqi people" might have been...IT WAS NOT FUCKING WORTH 900 AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES...IT WAS NOT WORTH DRAWING TROOPS AWAY FROM THE HUNT FOR BIN-LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN...IT WAS NOT WORTH IGNORING REAL THREATS LIKE NORTH KOREA!!

Why can you neocon, kool-ad swilling fools see it for what it really is?? Iraq is nothing short of Operation Inigo Montoya!

Iraq is Arabic for "Vietnam!!"

Except for the soldiers dying about 10x as much in Vietnam, and Vietnam the fought with traps and real battle. The soldiers dying are by suicide bombers and ambushes on convoy's. Do you think 1,000 Americans are so much better than 25.5 million Iraqi's or something? Maybe Bush did change his story, I really dont care. Those poor people deserved to get freedom after decades of a Opressive Dictator. Look at it from the average joe Iraqi's side please. They are dealing with a lot of deaths now. Probably about less amount as ol' Hussian was was takin in and torchering and killing.

Thank you people, even if there is a disagreement politically between me and someone else, I still respect that persons views.

Now, I want you to back up that Bush is 'violent'. He did use violence to promptly stop the killing in Iraqi, something the UN would have never accomplished.

How is it incumbent upon US to "stop the killing in Iraq?" How is it worth the lives of over 900 American servicemen?

Why the fuck should I give a shit? Why should I care to the tune of the lives of 900 OTHER PEOPLE??

Seems the only people Bushco cares about are rich americans...and foreigners...he obviously gives shit care less about his own coutnrymen if they are poor!! His economic policies have been disastrous to the poor of America...and come November, we are formally kicking his ass OUT of the White House...and, by the Grace of God, neocon scumsuckers will never again gain control of this once-great nation.
And, once you neocons are out on your ass, we will work to repair your damage, and we will make this country great once again!

So why don't you go drink your kool-aid some more??

Well standing by the president would increase the level of patriotism you reflect onto your country.

Not if the President is leading the country down a disastrous path!!

We used to have international courts condemn people for what are president is doing. If only someone would try arraigning him after his term is up...

Bro, how big are you? Im 6 5 and I way over 400 ponds. You really think we could take me on?

400 ponds? That certainly is a lot of water weight. Do you feel bloated?

Anyway, if you are indeed 6'5" and weigh 400 pounds (which is what I'll assume you're trying to say) then no one needs to worry about you kicking much of anything other than the bucket due to a heart attack.

You have to understand both sides. Starting military actions for reasons that have nothing to do directly with our immediate defence and for ideological reasons that make no sense to the mind or to the international intelligentsia. Hmm. Sounds almost like terrorism to me...

Both sides of any issue feel strongly, just look at the thread. To form an opinion you have to have as full knowledge as you can get. That way you can talk to people who disagree and make a case instead of just saying "Bush sucks". Im so greatful for bush supporters with brains and logic. They make things much more interesting.

I think Bush is doing an awesome job. I am amazed people cannot see how much he and his administration has done to bring us as far as we have come in 3 short years. In this time, we have managed to come back from a tremendous and devastating assault on our nation and economy, and have managed to defend ourselves against the enemy who has made overt and blatant statements about wanting to wreak more devastation on our nation. I wish people could see that this is not just an election to choose between Bush and Kerry, but a choice between an established administration that is experienced in terrorist threats and defending us as a people. If Bush leaves office, so does Condi, Powell, Rummy, and possibly Ridge. I personally don't want our nation to be led by a bunch of people who are not familiar with the issues, who are essentially newbies, and who will have a learning curve to face...a learning curve at a time when we cannot afford any mistakes.


i have trouble seeing how great bush is when i live in a city with a "growing economy" in a nation with a "growing economy" and i have a degree and am 9 months away from having another degree... and i can't get a job ANYWHERE that will allow me to pay my $100 rent (including utilities) and my cell phone (i don't have a land line and i have the cheapest plan offered by my chosen company) and still eat. not to mention he keeps lying about why he does the things he does. i don't need "integrity" in a president, i need truthfulness. yes, iraq needed to be taken care of. but he should not have lied about why. he knew full well before he went in that he would not find wmds... but he still proclaimed that the reason why my friends are dying over there. why? because he didn't think anyone would support the human rights cause that really needed to be solved. what a nice thought. greedy bastard.

We used to have international courts condemn people for what are president is doing. If only someone would try arraigning him after his term is up...

There still is an international court, however it's function is not to serve as a world judicial body, but to investigate and potentially prosecute cases where the country in question can't or won't. Regardless of where Bush is living after the first of 2005, he'll never go before any court, international or otherwise. Not that he shouldn't, just that he won't.

LoL, and Bush planned 9/11 right?

During Clinton's presidency, the WTC was bombed in 1993 by Osama bin Laden, Clinton ignored the problem in Somalia, was urged by his advisors to realize the threat of Osama bin Laden and didn't take him even when offered his head by the Saudis.

Clinton's solution to Al Quada was by firing a few cruise missiles at them, Bush went in and did the job right.

Remember, Bush was only President for a short time before 9/11, the WTC would have been attacked if Gore had been President, there was nothing that could be done to reverse Clinton's mistakes.
1. No, he didn't. That is what we refer to as 'bullshit'.
2. Clinton actually managed to arrest and convict the people responcible, that was his responce, and OBL was never offered to the United States by a first party (I.E. someone had him)
3. After 9/11. Not before. If he was such a clear threat, then why didn't Bush strike at him before 9/11?

True. And its not as if its a case america can or will see. But, damn, if only...

Imagine if Bush and Kerry were shot by snipers on november 1st and nader won? Sounds kind of like Lennon, sure, but imagine all the people not having to deal with one party trying to take the other out. Utopia, man. Utopia.

Except for the soldiers dying about 10x as much in Vietnam, and Vietnam the fought with traps and real battle. The soldiers dying are by suicide bombers and ambushes on convoy's. Do you think 1,000 Americans are so much better than 25.5 million Iraqi's or something? Maybe Bush did change his story, I really dont care. Those poor people deserved to get freedom after decades of a Opressive Dictator. Look at it from the average joe Iraqi's side please. They are dealing with a lot of deaths now. Probably about less amount as ol' Hussian was was takin in and torchering and killing.
In the first four years of the Vietnam war:
Soldiers Killed (United States)
1,864
In the fifth year:
5,008
Sixth:
9,378
Seventh:
14,594
Eigth:
9,414

We are on track to pass that 1864 number in a little over two years, not the four it took in Vietnam.
http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

Come on now, look what Bush has accomplished.

Since 9/11 and Bush's War on Terrorism, there hasn't been another terrorist attack on the homeland.

Libya's dicatator has abandoned it's WoMD program.

Al Quada has lost most of it's leadership.

Afghanistan is due to have it's first free elections in years.

Iraq is making steps in the right direction.

It's fine if you want Kerry to win, but then again, so do the terrorists...

Two points.

One: One could argue, during the Clinton years...that there hadn't been an attack ON THE HOMELAND since February 26, 1993. Bet you didn't remember THAT date, did ya? I'm not surprised. EVERYONE will remember 9/11 forever...but 02/26/93 doesn't mean anything to anyone who wasn't there!. That is the date the WTC got bombed the first time. And I was there!

Two: Of course there hasn't been an attack on the homeland since 9/11...we've sent the terrorists enough Americans to target overseas...they are taking 'em down like clay ducks! Why hassle to come all the way over here and get 'em when they can stay home and pop our boys over there??

Allow me to define patriotism for those who don't seem to understand what it means.

According to Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary:
pa-tri-o-tism: love for or devotion to one's country


No where in there does it say, "Love for or devotion to the current administration", nor does it say that one must love the president to love his country. I'm VERY pro-America, and I am VERY anti-Bush. I may not have supported the invasion of Iraq, but I pray daily that no more people get killed there.

Support of the President without a thought for WHAT he is doing, is about as stupid as it gets people. If you can back up your assesment that he is doing a good job, well, that's great. But let me back up my assessment.

•The economy is in the worst shape it has been in for a LONG TIME. (Get a clue, TAX CUTS DON'T WORK!)

•Bush has signed a document declaring that he understands that the Geneva convention does not apply to him, as president of the U.S. (It's international law folks, don't even TRY that argument.)

•Bush is trying to deny gay people the rights that they are guarunteed in the constitution, and the Decleration of Independence. (Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, since most republicans haven't read any of those documents in a while.)

•Bush consistently ignored eight months of security advisories about Al Quaeda being determined to strike in the U.S. (That begs the question. Did Bush WANT the attacks to occur, to boost his popularity? No, I'm sorry. That statement is way below the belt, and I don't believe it any more than anyone else does.)

•Bush ditched out on military service. Kerry served in Vietnam with distinction, saving the lives of many men. Bush's daddy got him a job with the Texas National Guard, and Bush didn't even show up for that. (A fact further proved by our current administration's attempts to destroy Bush's war records.)

•Bush knowingly invaded a sovereign nation (Iraq) under false pretenses. That war has now cost us the most lives since Vietnam.

•The administration has violated the rights of thousands of American citizens here in America, imprisoning them, without charge, for more than two and a half years now.

•Donald Rumsfeld APPROVED and ENCOURAGED the use of torture on prisoners in Iraq.

•The administration has tried to deny the rights of Oregon, by attempting to prevent the passing of an assisted suicide law. The rights of states to make their own laws is another thing guarunteed in the Constitution.

If that's not reason enought to not like Bush, then you are hopeless. If someone would like to volunteer, and find ONE statement of the above that can be proved wrong, telegram me, and I will publically admit it here on this thread.

In a press confernece to-day, Bush said something like: "Knowing what we know today, I still woudl have gone into a Iraq"
In my mind, that translates to:
Reporter: You fucked up bad... what's your stand now?
Bush: Yeah, I kinda got that much from it, but I'm a stubborn ass, so I'll stick behind my dedision to ruthlessly misuse the American military and falsely accuse all the Middle-East of being highly trained terroists.

I just think he's minipulating us more than he should, for the wrong cause. As for Nader winning, I find that apalling. He's a wierdo that deserves to be with-held from all future elections... he's little more than a puppet for the repuclicans to steal democrat's votes. And I don't think he has any leadership ability.

400 ponds? That certainly is a lot of water weight. Do you feel bloated?

Anyway, if you are indeed 6'5" and weigh 400 pounds (which is what I'll assume you're trying to say) then no one needs to worry about you kicking much of anything other than the bucket due to a heart attack.

Bro all I gota say is: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:

Brennique,

I am not sure what your specific situation is, or what degrees you might have, but the economy is booming. We blew away the averages last year in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Maybe you ahve degrees in a field that is not very marketable. I have three degrees and I can tell you my degree in Anthropology is essentially useless, as is my degree in Classical literature. i love the subjects, but good luck finding a job with them. You should not base your opinion of the national economy on your personal situation. On another note, I am truly amazed you can find any place to rent for $100 In New England that is unheard of (can I move there...:o).

Finally, I would also say there are still a tremendous number of programs available for food, housing, and medical benefits.

Bro all I gota say is: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:
Well well well, who wins the bet?

Bro all I gota say is: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:

Oooo, ouch. You sure showed me.

Oh, and by the way, I am not your "bro" in any sense of the word. If you have to address me, you may refer to me as "Mister" or "Sir".

*high fives 1337 h4x0r5*

You rock man!

I love Bush. I will vote for him :)

Why do I imagine this Fat Bastard as that scottish Fat Bastard from Austin Powers but with a biker style?

"I've gotta crap on deck that could choke a dooonkeyyyyyyhaaaawwwww!"

Anyway, www.dubyaspeak.com

Saying that Bush has prevented terrorist attacks becaue there havent been any since 9/11 is like saying me wearing pants keeps away bears. No bears have attacked me yet. My pants seem to be doing a wonderful job.

In the first four years of the Vietnam war:
Soldiers Killed (United States)
1,864
In the fifth year:
5,008
Sixth:
9,378
Seventh:
14,594
Eigth:
9,414

We are on track to pass that 1864 number in a little over two years, not the four it took in Vietnam.
http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

We lost a lot more than that the first four years. Our casualties were much lower during the late years mostly because of Vietnamization (but of course, a lot of Americans were still killed).

We blew away the averages last year in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

Two quarters is not a boom. Least not in my eyes

Two quarters is not a boom. Least not in my eyes

Nor mine.

I should have added that the indicators continue to show economic growth (increased consumer confidence, reduced unemployment starts, increased production figures, increased home building, etc.). Has anyone even noticed that the DJIA has remained above 10,000? When people say the economy is not recovering I think they are either repeating something they have been told, or they just don't want to see the obvious or just don't want to admit it.

There is a lot of anti-Bush sentiment here, but it goes hand in hand with the anti-conservative sentiment, according to my observations. Most of the time, the people that speak out are those who are unhappy with the status quo, so it is natural that the left wing would express itself more in these forums, as there are many strong right wing conservatives in power. To answer your question, I for one give my full support to Bush.

LoL, and Bush planned 9/11 right?

During Clinton's presidency, the WTC was bombed in 1993 by Osama bin Laden, Clinton ignored the problem in Somalia, was urged by his advisors to realize the threat of Osama bin Laden and didn't take him even when offered his head by the Saudis.

Clinton's solution to Al Quada was by firing a few cruise missiles at them, Bush went in and did the job right.

Remember, Bush was only President for a short time before 9/11, the WTC would have been attacked if Gore had been President, there was nothing that could be done to reverse Clinton's mistakes.

First of all, get your facts straight. clinton was offered Bin Laden's head by the SUDANESE...NOT THE SAUDIS!!
Second, clinton refused, only because he could find no actual charge on which to accept Bin Laden. There was, at the time of the offer, no concrete proff that could be used to justify it.

Saying that Bush has prevented terrorist attacks becaue there havent been any since 9/11 is like saying me wearing pants keeps away bears. No bears have attacked me yet. My pants seem to be doing a wonderful job.

This is called a fallacy of analogy. The two cannot be fairly compared. The threat of a bear has to be present, which it is not, and terrorism is a threat to our nation (as evidence by plans recently discovered on a terrorists computer). Your pants are an object that has not be manipulated or changed to address a threat. The adminsitration has changed policy, procedures and practices by implementing homeland security, forming TSA, implementing a warning system, and intensifying their investigative procedures to name a few of the obvious.

Now that, my friends, is a beautiful allusion.

I wont get caught up in the draft thing. I dont like war. I dont like murder. I wont be a hypocrite: if i got drafted i would get my ass to canada. But the point that clinton made at the DNC is important: Kerry voulunteered to serve, and then protested the atrocities after having seen them and done them himself. I have respect for that because i sure as hell wouldnt have gone.
Thank you. I can't take credit for the originality of that one...I picked it up somewhere else, I think it was on democraticunderground.com but, nevertheless, I liked "Operation Inigo Montoya" when I first saw it, I latched onto it, and have used that moniker to describe Iraq ever since!

Okay, supporting Fweeble.

I have been camping for weeks at a time, for YEARS in areas where bears are quite common. You might even say rampant. Certainly more common than terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. I wear pants. I have not been attacked by a bear. Therefore, my pants prevent bear attacks.

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this--and I'll be damned if I'm going to wade through 8 pages of what is likely the same shit I've seen every day for the last 3 years tofind out--but I'd like to posit that being pro-Bush and pro-American are not necessarily the same thing, and in fact, a strong argument could be made that they're diametrically opposed.

There is a lot of anti-Bush sentiment here, but it goes hand in hand with the anti-conservative sentiment, according to my observations. Most of the time, the people that speak out are those who are unhappy with the status quo, so it is natural that the left wing would express itself more in these forums, as there are many strong right wing conservatives in power. To answer your question, I for one give my full support to Bush.

I agree there are very strong emotions behind political ideas on both sides of the aisle. I have heard it said that the left is often weak on defending their positions because their beliefs are not based on fact, but on emotion. When they begin losing an argument, it is said they will turn away from logical reasoning and resort to name calling, ad hominem arguments and base insults that are not supported. let's see what happens here

Icertonia: Yes indeed. I mentioned the definition of patriotism in my post a ways back. (Page 7, I think.)

If Bush leaves office, so does Condi, Powell, Rummy, and possibly Ridge.

And this is a BAD thing? WTF??
Oh, and Ridge is already leaving...he doesn't make enough money to send his kids to college, poor thing...ain't you heard??

And Condo-LIES-za and Rummy oughta be brought up on charges of being war criminals!!

I agree there are very strong emotions behind political ideas on both sides of the aisle. I have heard it said that the left is often weak on defending their positions because their beliefs are not based on fact, but on emotion. When they begin losing an argument, it is said they will turn away from logical reasoning and resort to name calling, ad hominem arguments and base insults that are not supported. let's see what happens here

You know, it's strange, but I've seen the stuff you've mentioned in the above quote used by conservatives. *coughfatsmellybastardcough*

Okay, supporting Fweeble.

I have been camping for weeks at a time, for YEARS in areas where bears are quite common. You might even say rampant. Certainly more common than terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. I wear pants. I have not been attacked by a bear. Therefore, my pants prevent bear attacks.

Maybe they do prevent bear attacks then...have you tried camping in the nude to see the difference and test this out?

You know, it's strange, but I've seen the stuff you've mentioned in the above quote used by conservatives. *coughfatsmellybastardcough*

But I speak from experience

Not quite. Bush isn't betraying the soldiers as blatantly as LBJ and Tricky Dick did.

Hmm...sending them there under false pretexts...and under-equipped (some soldiers even had to buy thier own goddamn body armor!!) is pretty damn betraying if you ask me!

Oh, there's plenty of body armor for those who are protecting the oil fields, in case you didn't notice!!

Oil fields? Protect them!! School, hospitals, civilians, poor-ass American soldiers? Fuck' em. That's Bush in a nutshell.

You know, it's strange, but I've seen the stuff you've mentioned in the above quote used by conservatives. *coughfatsmellybastardcough*Want to know what passes for the conservative movement is most guilty of at any given time? Just listen to what they're accusing their political opponents of. It's as sure an indicator of behavior as exists.

Maybe they do prevent bear attacks then...have you tried camping in the nude to see the difference and test this out?

No, I guess I haven't tested this. Maybe we should take Bush out of office and test the idea that it was Bush who prevented terrorist attacks.

We lost a lot more than that the first four years. Our casualties were much lower during the late years mostly because of Vietnamization (but of course, a lot of Americans were still killed).
You've got better numbers? I showed you my source.

You know, it's strange, but I've seen the stuff you've mentioned in the above quote used by conservatives. *coughfatsmellybastardcough*

There is a difference between people who argue solely for the purpose of insulting someone with opposite viewpoints, as in your above example, and the people who are reasonable, and know their facts. One person does not speak for an entire party or group, and so it is unfair to judge a group by the actions of one or two members. I agree with Meditech though, in that people who hold ideas based on emotion are often more easily riled, because a strike against those beliefs feels more like a personal attack.

Right, but Bush, as my backing of my statement, is contradictory of even his own top advisors. I forget who it was but someone said "There is an increased chance, from [insert intelligence here], that a terrorist attack will happen"

That day or a couple days later he says "The American People are safe!" 8 times in a 32 minute speach. Now someone please tell me that that isn't contradictory.

Let's also not forget that Bush wants us to remember he's a War President...except, of course, where that doesn't poll welll...then he wants to be thought of a a Peace President. Can't have it both ways, you duplicitous bastard, Bush, make up your ficking mind!! Are you a re War President or a Peace Preisdent??

Fuck you, if the neo-cons can point out contradictins and hypocrisy all the time, then they better as hell be ready to take it when we liberals take a page out of the neocon playbook, and use it against them!!

No, I guess I haven't tested this. Maybe we should take Bush out of office and test the idea that it was Bush who prevented terrorist attacks.

I am afraid that might just happen. I would prefer to keep my pants on rather than put myself and my family at risk.

But I speak from experience

Hmmm... and since I disagree with you, I don't speak from experience? Yes, that must be it! Brilliant!

No, I speak from experience as well. Perhaps we are all willing to ignore the infractions our side makes, and note only the things the other side does. (Or should I say faction?)

I see, the liberals are resorting to name calling, rudeness, and insults.

"Difference of opinion leads to enquiry, and enquiry to truth; and that, I am sure, is the ultimate and sincere object of us both. We both value too much the freedom of opinion sanctioned by our Constitution, not to cherish its exercise even where in opposition to ourselves." --Thomas Jefferson

Or do we??

I see, the liberals are resorting to name calling, rudeness, and insults.Where?

Hmmm... and since I disagree with you, I don't speak from experience? Yes, that must be it! Brilliant!

No, I speak from experience as well. Perhaps we are all willing to ignore the infractions our side makes, and note only the things the other side does. (Or should I say faction?)

Perhaps.

Except for the soldiers dying about 10x as much in Vietnam, and Vietnam the fought with traps and real battle. The soldiers dying are by suicide bombers and ambushes on convoy's. Do you think 1,000 Americans are so much better than 25.5 million Iraqi's or something? Maybe Bush did change his story, I really dont care. Those poor people deserved to get freedom after decades of a Opressive Dictator. Look at it from the average joe Iraqi's side please. They are dealing with a lot of deaths now. Probably about less amount as ol' Hussian was was takin in and torchering and killing.

and that somehow makes it incumbent on US to get rid of THEIR resident bad boy? WTF?

Look at it from the poor-ass average G.I. Joe who got sent there, to do the damn dirty work! Look at it from the standpoint of the poor-ass who joined the Reserves, just to be able to get through college, because there were no other options...and are now being kept there, against their will, beyond the time for which they signed up for??

and we didn't give a shit about liberating the Iraqi people. We only heard that after WMD's didn't pan out.

Remember, we were supposed to have been greeted by grateful, cheering Iraqi crowds who would scatter roses in our path...riiiiight!!

I see, the liberals are resorting to name calling, rudeness, and insults.
as opposed to what you are doing?

"Difference of opinion leads to enquiry, and enquiry to truth; and that, I am sure, is the ultimate and sincere object of us both. We both value too much the freedom of opinion sanctioned by our Constitution, not to cherish its exercise even where in opposition to ourselves." --Thomas Jefferson

Or do we??

In this day and age, difference of oppinion is a very dangerous thing, sad as that is.

I am afraid that might just happen. I would prefer to keep my pants on rather than put myself and my family at risk.

Your family is already at risk, and so are you. We all are. More than we were before we invaded Iraq without justification.

I see, the liberals are resorting to name calling, rudeness, and insults.
As opposed to the rudeness in the thread name and by FSB.

Of course. When Kerry was a senator he turned down 4 different pieces of military hardware which were essential to Americas defense. Demos will give away this country.
Wouldn't having peaceful policies that don't provoke and intimidate the world be a more effective defense than the most powerful weapons and the strongest armor? Give this country away to who, anyway?


I dislike both Bush and Kerry.

In this day and age, difference of oppinion is a very dangerous thing, sad as that is.

Yes, but we cannot fear to show our differences of opinion, because if we do, the terrorists have won.

In this day and age, difference of oppinion is a very dangerous thing, sad as that is.
Shoe Gaze, Shoe Gaze...

And this is a BAD thing? WTF??
Oh, and Ridge is already leaving...he doesn't make enough money to send his kids to college, poor thing...ain't you heard??

And Condo-LIES-za and Rummy oughta be brought up on charges of being war criminals!!

This is an example of some of the name calling...There needs to be supporting statements to defend that they are war criminals.

Besides, you still did not answer my question about the learning curve for a new administration.

and that somehow makes it incumbent on US to get rid of THEIR resident bad boy? WTF?

Look at it from the poor-ass average G.I. Joe who got sent there, to do the damn dirty work! Look at it from the standpoint of the poor-ass who joined the Reserves, just to be able to get through college, because there were no other options...and are now being kept there, against their will, beyond the time for which they signed up for??

and we didn't give a shit about liberating the Iraqi people. We only heard that after WMD's didn't pan out.

Remember, we were supposed to have been greeted by grateful, cheering Iraqi crowds who would scatter roses in our path...riiiiight!!


The majority of the people are simply happy to be out from under the leash of a dictator. There are also many soldiers who completely support what the government is doing, and are proud of what they have accomplished. Again, you only hear about those who are discontent with the situation. Also, the government stated its intention to liberate the people before the invasion, and search for the WMDs.

Um... I think Labrador was emphasizing how to pronounce the name. If you look at it in context.

The majority of the people are simply happy to be out from under the leash of a dictator. There are also many soldiers who completely support what the government is doing, and are proud of what they have accomplished. Again, you only hear about those who are discontent with the situation. Also, the government stated its intention to liberate the people before the invasion, and search for the WMDs.

...Frankly, I don't believe you. Where's YOUR proof that most of the Iraqui citizens are happy?

I should have added that the indicators continue to show economic growth (increased consumer confidence, reduced unemployment starts, increased production figures, increased home building, etc.). Has anyone even noticed that the DJIA has remained above 10,000? When people say the economy is not recovering I think they are either repeating something they have been told, or they just don't want to see the obvious or just don't want to admit it.

But that growth is slowing (down significantly to 3.0% in the second quarter) and job numbers were particularly disappointing and below predictions for June. July's data isn't in yet that I'm aware of, but the fact remains that unemployment is still at 5.6% and those are simply the ones who are still on government rosters because they're still able to draw unemployment. If you consider those out of work who have also run out of unemployment benefits, then you have a total unemployed number around 8 million and growing as more people see their unemployment benefits run out. Additionally, if you consider job quality for the jobs being created, then there is more cause for concern. Many of these jobs (which aren't even fulfilling the promises for his 2003 tax cuts) are either temporary, contractual or part-time.

As for the Dow, it's all over the map. It dipped significantly below 10,000 in July and, while it is currently above 10,000, there's no reason to believe that it is stable or that this is conclusive proof of economic recovery.

Your family is already at risk, and so are you. We all are. More than we were before we invaded Iraq without justification.

How can you say I am more at risk since we invaded Iraq? There have not been any assaults on our nation since the war began. And, in fact, it moved the frontline of the terrorist's attack on us to foreign soil. Al Qaeda was reportedly directing their operatives to Iraq.

...Frankly, I don't believe you. Where's YOUR proof?

As we tell racists all the time, the radicals and those who attack westerners are only a very small portion of the population.

How can you say I am more at risk since we invaded Iraq? There have not been any assaults on our nation since the war began. And, in fact, it moved the frontline of the terrorist's attack on us to foreign soil. Al Qaeda was reportedly directing their operatives to Iraq.
As I said earlier, there were no attacks on our soil from 1996-2001. 5 years.

But that growth is slowing (down significantly to 3.0% in the second quarter) .

you don't think 3% growth is still good? especially in a quarter which doesn't usually stand out as being a time of growth...let's see what this year's 3rd quarter brings.

you don't think 3% growth is still good? especially in a quarter which doesn't usually stand out as being a time of growth...let's see what this year's 3rd quarter brings.
Take a look at growth per capita.

you don't think 3% growth is still good? especially in a quarter which doesn't usually stand out as being a time of growth...let's see what this year's 3rd quarter brings.

I didn't say it wasn't good, I said it was down when economic predictors didn't expect it to be.

I should have added that the indicators continue to show economic growth (increased consumer confidence, reduced unemployment starts, increased production figures, increased home building, etc.). Has anyone even noticed that the DJIA has remained above 10,000? When people say the economy is not recovering I think they are either repeating something they have been told, or they just don't want to see the obvious or just don't want to admit it.

Increased consumer confidence: Depends on what kind of consumers you are asking!
Reduced unemployment starts? Yes, because most of the unemployed have used up their benefits, and therefore cannot start another claim, and are no linger counted as "unemployed" but they still don't have fucking jobs!
Increased production figures? This is an indication of recovery, how? It means more gets done with even LESS people...meaning more people than ever are finding themselves out on their ass...and the few that are left are working themselves into oblivion out of fear it might be THEM next!!
Increased home building? Where?
DJIA? Anyone notice is was over 11,500 when clinton was in office, and is now struggling to stay above 10,000?

When people say the economy IS recovering, it is because THEY are gainfully employed, THEY aren't hurting...and they therefore think THEIR experience is shared by everyone else!

Shoe Gaze, Shoe Gaze...
I must not have been clear. I was emphasizing the extreme tension between the parties and the people of this country.

Hey...

I gotta run. I have to say this was interesting and informative. My best to you all. It is a wonderful thing to see people willing and interested in exchanging ideas and perspectives. If we stop doing this, then we are all lost.

Hey...

I gotta run. I have to say this was interesting and informative. My best to you all. It is a wonderful thing to see people willing and interested in exchanging ideas and perspectives. If we stop doing this, then we are all lost.

True

No, I guess I haven't tested this. Maybe we should take Bush out of office and test the idea that it was Bush who prevented terrorist attacks.

God-DAMN!!! Irinistan, you rock!! I LOVE IT!!

You will make a great UN Delegate for our Region! Again, congratulations on your recent win of that election in our great liberal hotbed region of Area 51!!

you don't think 3% growth is still good? especially in a quarter which doesn't usually stand out as being a time of growth...let's see what this year's 3rd quarter brings.

I believe your focussing on the wrong economic indicator. The current economic growth is nothing compared to the huge deficit the Bush government has established. That deficit will cripple your economy in the long term. This comes at a time when the baby-boomers are about to hit retirement age and will recieve pension, further indebtting the government.

Furthermore, I'm willing to bet good money that the economic growth would have been the same or better under another administration. His tax cut didn't have the desired effects either. All I'm saying is that Bush has been terrible for the economy.

I am afraid that might just happen. I would prefer to keep my pants on rather than put myself and my family at risk.

wake up, Meditech...you and your family already ARE at risk...and it is precisely BECAUSE Bush and the neocons are in power!!

Al Qaeda was reportedly directing their operatives to Iraq.
But wait, hold on now. What if we did exactly what Al Qaeda wanted us to do by going into Iraq. Just out of my overactive imagination, what if Al Qaeda went to Iraq so that we'd go in and kick out Saddam, get the Iraqis testy, then allow for the organization to start a radical Islamic revolution in Iraq? I hope I'm wrong and that we didn't fall for an Al Qaeda plot to install a government that they'd want. Saddam's a bad guy, but do we really want another Iran?

Man, I think I could write a piss-poor summer action flick that makes people think they know geopolitics.

Bro, if I ever hear you make fun of Bush agin Ill paste ya one. Aint nobody gonna inslut our best presdent in front of me! :mad: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :upyours:


bush is the worst president i have ever seen in america
not only did he manage to completely ruin america
he also got the chance to get the whole world against him

and seeing what kind of ppl support only make him look more like a monkey

Um... I think Labrador was emphasizing how to pronounce the name. If you look at it in context.

Umm, no, Irinistan. It was intended as an ad-hominem attack.

The pronunciation of Ms. Rice's name would be Con - do - LEE - za.
I called her Condo - LIES - za.
Intentionally an ad-hominem attack. Thanks for your defense, but in this case, it's unwarranted.

I attacked, and I meant to in that case.

Blindly following any politician without questioning or at least researching their policies or motives is just plain stupid.

You wanna be a sheep all your life? ***baaaahhhhh***

How can you say I am more at risk since we invaded Iraq? There have not been any assaults on our nation since the war began. And, in fact, it moved the frontline of the terrorist's attack on us to foreign soil. Al Qaeda was reportedly directing their operatives to Iraq.
the last american attack on american home territory soil was in what 94? they were attacking our buildings in FOREIGN countries. saying we havnt had an attack in 2 and a half years is not bragging rights, its ignorance that will get us attacked again

bush is the worst president i have ever seen in america
not only did he manage to completely ruin america
he also got the chance to get the whole world against him

and seeing what kind of ppl support only make him look more like a monkey

How does insulting FSB and Bush make you any better? I think the violence against people who have different oppinions than you makes the liberal party look like a group of monkeys.

Come on now, look what Bush has accomplished.

Since 9/11 and Bush's War on Terrorism, there hasn't been another terrorist attack on the homeland.

Libya's dicatator has abandoned it's WoMD program.

Al Quada has lost most of it's leadership.

Afghanistan is due to have it's first free elections in years.

Iraq is making steps in the right direction.

It's fine if you want Kerry to win, but then again, so do the terrorists...

maybe 9/11 hadn't happend if bush wasn't on vacation all the time and had listened to clinton who warned him about al quada...

Lots of u guys say that the americans are at special risks, however I don't really think so, I think that the only ones who are really at risk, are the soldiers in the middle east.
As was metioned earlier, Bush pulled the terrorism away from the american homes, however, in doing so he just endangered the lives of the soldiers he sent off to Iraq.
And Bush hasn't done that good a job with the economy, I think we all know that. I'm hoping that Kerry gets the job, and does it better, because initially, this could be the (far out) beginning of the fall of the US, which like all other larger powers has fallen over time. Hoping this won't happen (at least not in my lifetime) and that someone gets the US back on track! :)

Maybe if Clinton had actually _done_ something about Al Qaeda when he had the chance (and he did; he's even admitted to it), then 9-11 would never have happened!

Anyway. I don't really like Bush so much as I think Kerry is too much of a flip-flopper to be president. Essentially, Bush is the lesser of two evils, so I'm voting for him this year. Yay.

Lots of u guys say that the americans are at special risks, however I don't really think so, I think that the only ones who are really at risk, are the soldiers in the middle east.
As was metioned earlier, Bush pulled the terrorism away from the american homes, however, in doing so he just endangered the lives of the soldiers he sent off to Iraq.
And Bush hasn't done that good a job with the economy, I think we all know that. I'm hoping that Kerry gets the job, and does it better, because initially, this could be the (far out) beginning of the fall of the US, which like all other larger powers has fallen over time. Hoping this won't happen (at least not in my lifetime) and that someone gets the US back on track! :)

If the United States collapses so does the global economy and the rest of the world. I hope that does not happen either, but I think that taking the pressure off of the terrorists and allowing them to roam free and commit acts of terror in our homes is not the way to prevent this.

Funny thing about Clinton was that he was trying to get to the thing called "peace"... not bomb the shit out of everybody... think that's why he didn't "do" anything about al qaeda :)

If the United States collapses so does the global economy and the rest of the world. I hope that does not happen either, but I think that taking the pressure off of the terrorists and allowing them to roam free and commit acts of terror in our homes is not the way to prevent this.

Thats very true, just saying that if he hadn't gone to war with them, and instead just tried doing things peacefully, he wouldn't have spent all the money on wars...


however... was referring to a collaps over a few years, releaving the US and allowing another region to take over the larger part of the worlds power... Asia or Europe would be my guess..

Thats very true, just saying that if he hadn't gone to war with them, and instead just tried doing things peacefully, he wouldn't have spent all the money on wars...


however... was referring to a collaps over a few years, releaving the US and allowing another region to take over the larger part of the worlds power... Asia or Europe would be my guess..

I doubt that Asia or Europe would be able to overtake the US anytime soon.

Anyway. I don't really like Bush so much as I think Kerry is too much of a flip-flopper to be president. Essentially, Bush is the lesser of two evils, so I'm voting for him this year. Yay.

Can someone explain to me why people believe the claims of Kerry as a flip-flopper? I mean, yes he did vote against some military spending bills but that was ten years ago when the bills were not needed. Also, you don'T know what was attached to the bill. I would have voted against a military bill I believe in if something like banning condoms was attached to it. Name one isuue where Kerry has flip-flopped recently.

Also, I rather have a head of state who changes his mind when he sees his constituents do not agree with his policies than some close-minded president who thinks his way is the only way.

I think that "flip-flop" is a stupid attack and should be disregarded as demonizing the opponent.

WTF!!! First of all I don't think most of you pro-Bush get the big picture... Sure, sure I'm European... so...ehhh... that makes me anti-Bush... I call it your prejudice... But what makes your America so important that "you" "allow" your president to invade a country (even if it is a dictatorship), without any justifiable reason (and you'd all say: yeah well, that's what we found out later)??? I don't get the fact you all cann't comprehend that there's more to it then beats the eye... Now it's "your" turn to go to me... why don't you go and do this.... :headbang:

I doubt that Asia or Europe would be able to overtake the US anytime soon.

not saying that it would be anytime soon, however if you look at the difference between the asian working habits and the american/european ones, you will notice that they do a great deal more work, and are far more motivated. So much for slaves way back when, they had to be strong, now they just have to work persistently and be smart :) (most asian ppl are lower as well... fit better into airplanes... very smart :))

WTF!!! First of all I don't think most of you pro-Bush get the big picture... Sure, sure I'm European... so...ehhh... that makes me anti-Bush... I call it your prejudice... But what makes your America so important that "you" "allow" your president to invade a country (even if it is a dictatorship), without any justifiable reason (and you'd all say: yeah well, that's what we found out later)??? I don't get the fact you all cann't comprehend that there's more to it then beats the eye... Now it's "your" turn to go to me... why don't you go and do this.... :headbang:


Well.. seeing as it is too late to redo all that, try thinking about what actually is possible to do (or invent a time travelling machine/device... would be cool.. :)).. I don't think that getting Saddam of the Throne of Iraq was a bad idea tho... just think they should have let the people do so, and helped them where it was needed to do so

Thats very true, just saying that if he hadn't gone to war with them, and instead just tried doing things peacefully, he wouldn't have spent all the money on wars...


however... was referring to a collaps over a few years, releaving the US and allowing another region to take over the larger part of the worlds power... Asia or Europe would be my guess..


Europe had it's turn. I'm guessing China or Japan will be next, most likely when we run out of cheap oil.

WTF!!! First of all I don't think most of you pro-Bush get the big picture... Sure, sure I'm European... so...ehhh... that makes me anti-Bush... I call it your prejudice... But what makes your America so important that "you" "allow" your president to invade a country (even if it is a dictatorship), without any justifiable reason (and you'd all say: yeah well, that's what we found out later)??? I don't get the fact you all cann't comprehend that there's more to it then beats the eye... Now it's "your" turn to go to me... why don't you go and do this.... :headbang:

Apparently, we have not made it clear enough that the reason was justifiable. There was a threat to our country that you do not understand, as you have not had the experience of a terrorist attack in your home town. The United States has decided that it will not tolerate terrorist's or terrorist regimes any longer. It is none of Europe's business to dictate when and how we can protect our families and our homes.

Well.. seeing as it is too late to redo all that, try thinking about what actually is possible to do (or invent a time travelling machine/device... would be cool.. :)).. I don't think that getting Saddam of the Throne of Iraq was a bad idea tho... just think they should have let the people do so, and helped them where it was needed to do so

That approach does not work. Look at Cuba and the bay of Pigs fiasco.

Apparently, we have not made it clear enough that the reason was justifiable. There was a threat to our country that you do not understand, as you have not had the experience of a terrorist attack in your home town. The United States has decided that it will not tolerate terrorist's or terrorist regimes any longer. It is none of Europe's business to dictate when and how we can protect our families and our homes.

seeing to it that you by waging war only get temporary peace, you might save yourself, but what about the people after you? what happens when they strike back, or will they be eradicated before then? Really, I don't think the way to stop terrorism is through waging war, since the people who do this don't really have an army... meaning that you are fighting an invisible enemy, and once you finish off some of the terrorists, you get their family and friends against you, try scaling that up, instead of the peaceful way of doing the whole thing, just let them, once the generation has died out the hate will most likely dissapear, try helping them to a better life, instead of having them use their last reserves of money on combatting.

That approach does not work. Look at Cuba and the bay of Pigs fiasco.

well, imagine if it for once did, how great would that be? Later, if it didn't work, they may have done what they did, but doing so before, I believe was not a very good idea

seeing to it that you by waging war only get temporary peace, you might save yourself, but what about the people after you? what happens when they strike back, or will they be eradicated before then? Really, I don't think the way to stop terrorism is through waging war, since the people who do this don't really have an army... meaning that you are fighting an invisible enemy, and once you finish off some of the terrorists, you get their family and friends against you, try scaling that up, instead of the peaceful way of doing the whole thing, just let them, once the generation has died out the hate will most likely dissapear, try helping them to a better life, instead of having them use their last reserves of money on combatting.


also
invading countries that don't have anything (directly) to do with the terrorists wont really help the opinion of the middle east on america...

Apparently, we have not made it clear enough that the reason was justifiable. There was a threat to our country that you do not understand, as you have not had the experience of a terrorist attack in your home town.
Threat that has yet to be prooved. Iraq was no threat to the US. Also, Madrid got bombed by terrorist so your claim that he cannot understand how you feel is wrong. Also, I'd like to point out that the IRA has been at this kind of things for a long time.

The United States has decided that it will not tolerate terrorist's or terrorist regimes any longer. It is none of Europe's business to dictate when and how we can protect our families and our homes.
The States has done no such thing. They said that they will not tolerate regime that threathen them. Also, if your claim was true, you'd be in North Korea by now.
Also, europe is more than one country. It is europe's buisness what you do in Iraq as the UK is in europe and his helping you, same for Turkey.

Oh, and how do you inslut someone?

Come now CSW, there are children on this forum!

seeing to it that you by waging war only get temporary peace, you might save yourself, but what about the people after you? what happens when they strike back, or will they be eradicated before then? Really, I don't think the way to stop terrorism is through waging war, since the people who do this don't really have an army... meaning that you are fighting an invisible enemy, and once you finish off some of the terrorists, you get their family and friends against you, try scaling that up, instead of the peaceful way of doing the whole thing, just let them, once the generation has died out the hate will most likely dissapear, try helping them to a better life, instead of having them use their last reserves of money on combatting.

we are helping them to lead a better life. That is what we have been doing for years, but the Islamo-fascists see this and become jealous of american wealth and power. About the invisible enemy, we have invisible weapons to fight them. The CIA and the Mossad do a fine job. The terrorists are determined to terrorize and harm Americans simply because they were born in a country that is better off. Again, the terrorists are a minority, which is the point most people miss. They are an enemy that can be defeated one way or the othe, and the only way to remove the threat of terror is to defeat it. It is the American people who can not hold on for the long haul ahead that are a threat to peace, not the people who want to see the threat disappear.

Threat that has yet to be prooved. Iraq was no threat to the US. Also, Madrid got bombed by terrorist so your claim that he cannot understand how you feel is wrong. Also, I'd like to point out that the IRA has been at this kind of things for a long time.


The States has done no such thing. They said that they will not tolerate regime that threathen them. Also, if your claim was true, you'd be in North Korea by now.
Also, europe is more than one country. It is europe's buisness what you do in Iraq as the UK is in europe and his helping you, same for Turkey.

There have been no attacks of such magnitude as the destruction of the World Trade Center and the attack on the Pentagon in Europe. Regarding the IRA, they do not wage all out war on the citizens of a nation like groups such as Al Quaida and Hamas do.

All right folks. That's a wrap for tonight. I want to say that I respect your oppinions although I disagree, and I hope I have not terribly offended anyone. Good evening.

There have been no attacks of such magnitude as the destruction of the World Trade Center and the attack on the Pentagon in Europe. Regarding the IRA, they do not wage all out war on the citizens of a nation like groups such as Al Quaida and Hamas do.
I fail to see how the subway bombs were of a lesser magnitude than the attack on the WTC. The IRA was a way to tell you that europeans have a better notion on how terrorist affect daily lives than you think.

we are helping them to lead a better life. That is what we have been doing for years, but the Islamo-fascists see this and become jealous of american wealth and power. About the invisible enemy, we have invisible weapons to fight them. The CIA and the Mossad do a fine job. The terrorists are determined to terrorize and harm Americans simply because they were born in a country that is better off. Again, the terrorists are a minority, which is the point most people miss. They are an enemy that can be defeated one way or the othe, and the only way to remove the threat of terror is to defeat it. It is the American people who can not hold on for the long haul ahead that are a threat to peace, not the people who want to see the threat disappear.

so, by "removing" terror, you plan to wipe out half the worlds population? don't see any other way, as most terrorists are actually civilians, however you could force them into the same type of fear that saddam had them at, so that they wouldn't do it... which is being done, however, are they better off by this?

we are helping them to lead a better life. That is what we have been doing for years, but the Islamo-fascists see this and become jealous of american wealth and power. About the invisible enemy, we have invisible weapons to fight them. The CIA and the Mossad do a fine job. The terrorists are determined to terrorize and harm Americans simply because they were born in a country that is better off. Again, the terrorists are a minority, which is the point most people miss. They are an enemy that can be defeated one way or the othe, and the only way to remove the threat of terror is to defeat it. It is the American people who can not hold on for the long haul ahead that are a threat to peace, not the people who want to see the threat disappear.


you are just repeating bushs words literally

you know what they see

they see some guy
with alot of weapons
invade their country and telling them what to do
killing brothers/sons/fathers

Of course. When Kerry was a senator he turned down 4 different pieces of military hardware which were essential to Americas defense. Demos will give away this country.

A rebuttal... (http://snopes.com/politics/kerry/weapons.asp)

He still killed 300,000 of his own people, so if it wasnt that then it would be something else.

Mainly using weapons we gave to him. Wasn't that nice of us?

Well standing by the president would increase the level of patriotism you reflect onto your country.

If patriotism is wanting what's best for one's country, and one believes that standing by one's president is what is best for one's country, then a patriot is one who doesn't stand by one's president.

BTW, if "standing by the president" = patriotism, then who were the patriots during the attempt to remove Clinton from office?

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

I'd say that post pretty well sums up the intelligence of Democrats.

Bush is a failure? How convincing....

No more convincing than, say:

All I kno is Kerrys a jerko pinko butthole dweebie dork dumbsh*t lameball.
or:

Bro I might of flukned 10 grade 2wice, but let me teach you sum math:

ProBush= Love America NotProBush= Hate America

'Nuff said

If I were to use your "logic", then I could claim that this "pretty well sums up the intelligence of" Republicans.

Apparently, we have not made it clear enough that the reason was justifiable. There was a threat to our country that you do not understand, as you have not had the experience of a terrorist attack in your home town. The United States has decided that it will not tolerate terrorist's or terrorist regimes any longer. It is none of Europe's business to dictate when and how we can protect our families and our homes.

But...we didn't attack the terrorists when we went to Iraq. In fact, we pulled our forces AWAY from the actualy terrorists to attack the one country in the middle-east that wasn't working with terrorists!

Terrorists = Islamic fundamentalist fanatics

Iraq = Secular dictatorship (formerly)

Get it? Bush betrayed us by attacking Iraq. It made NO SENSE to fight terrorism on that front. He destabilized the region and turned Iraq into a terrorist recruitment paradise! Why do you think attacks there have been gaining momentum every month? Sure, we hear about them less, but every month, there are more suicide bombings

I think Fat Smelly Bastards is the best advertisement for the democrats on these forums! ;)

Yes they are, bro. Seriously! :rolleyes:


No they aren't, you dumb backwoods hick.

Our nation was built on dissention. Having an honest and informed dislike of our leaders and polititians is perfectly healthy.

That said, vote Kerry.

P.S. I always find it odd when Americans lecture to Europeans about terror - one major incident in 200 years, and they're the experts. My mistake: two - but one was homegrown *McVeigh*.

Maybe you should read some history books sometime - many European countries have known more war and terrorism in their history than America will in the next eon.

The terrorists are determined to terrorize and harm Americans simply because they were born in a country that is better off. Again, the terrorists are a minority, which is the point most people miss. They are an enemy that can be defeated one way or the othe, and the only way to remove the threat of terror is to defeat it. It is the American people who can not hold on for the long haul ahead that are a threat to peace, not the people who want to see the threat disappear.

First: Terrorists are determined to terrorize and harm Americans because they hate our foreign policies.

Second: The actual terrorists themselves are an obvious minority. BUT, it is quite possible they have the SUPPORT from the majority. Remember that radical cleric in Iraq? The more he stood up to Americans, the more his popular support actually increased! While it is possible to keep blowing up the relatively small number of terrorists, do you think the threat of terrorism will ever go away if the popular support for terrorists in the Middle East and Asia continues to INCREASE? Tell me how well thats been working for Isreal...

P.S. I always find it odd when Americans lecture to Europeans about terror - one major incident in 200 years, and they're the experts. My mistake: two - but one was homegrown *McVeigh*.

Maybe you should read some history books sometime - many European countries have known more war and terrorism in their history than America will in the next eon.
Wow, i guess the bombing of barracks in Lebanon wasn't terrorism, or the attack on the USS Cole, or the attack on Kobar Towers, or the first attack on the WTC. Yeah, I guess if we all studied like you Europeans, we would be so much better off, right. We would be learned like you, right.

LoL, and Bush planned 9/11 right?

During Clinton's presidency, the WTC was bombed in 1993 by Osama bin Laden, Clinton ignored the problem in Somalia, was urged by his advisors to realize the threat of Osama bin Laden and didn't take him even when offered his head by the Saudis.

Clinton's solution to Al Quada was by firing a few cruise missiles at them, Bush went in and did the job right.

Remember, Bush was only President for a short time before 9/11, the WTC would have been attacked if Gore had been President, there was nothing that could be done to reverse Clinton's mistakes.

Actually if you want to go back far enough, it was the Reagan administration that was lending support to Saddam against Iran and also Osama bin Laden in fighting the Russians in Afghanistan.

bush is the worst president the usa has ever had, carl marx can run a country better than him. and carl marx cant run a coutnry. :headbang: :mad:

Point? Prove that he was in violation of 1441.

I see no one (pro-Bush) has even tried what CSW has asked. What I find amusing is all this talk of "But Saddam killed the Kurds, he slaughtered his own people!"

Try taking a good look at what the Kurds have to deal with from our "ally" Turkey. Next, were you complaining about the poor Kurds back in the late 80's? Probably not. So why did it suddenly become the most important thing to stop Saddam from killing his own people? Seemed that became the battle cry after all those allegations of WMD dried up...

I am completely pro-Bush especially with respect to foriegn policy. First he attacked Osama's home base in Afganistan (doing in a couple monthes what the Soviets were unable to do over a period of years). This operation destoyed the central planning and training area for Al Qada. Next he attacked Saddam to remove a corrupt anti-American dictator and supporter of terrorism. The Iraq war also has the benefit of attracting Islamic extremists from all over the middle east thus making it easier to find and kill them. Once Iraq has settled down, they'll be to the middle east what Japan was to the far east: a democratic ally and example to the rest of the region. Not to mention an example for the various other corrupt dictators, don't cross the US or you may find yourself hiding in a hole looking like a homeless bum. All this was done without the consent of the UN or the French. Kerry has made clear that if he were president he would Kowtow to the weanies in Europe and make no move to defend our nation without first getting permision from the UN.

Bro, Im 42 years old, got 10 homedogs up in my crew, and Im a biker. How the h*** you gonna kick my ass? :rolleyes:

Your 42? Wow, I thought you were 10, you sound like it.

Mainly using weapons we gave to him. Wasn't that nice of us?
You should probably be brought up on charges with him then, giving him those weapons.

You should probably be brought up on charges with him then, giving him those weapons.
Ah, so do we advocate arresting Rummie and Reagan now?

Kerry has made clear that if he were president he would Kowtow to the weanies in Europe and make no move to defend our nation without first getting permision from the UN.
Sounds almost sympathetic. For an American.

I do not mean to spam but, any of you conservative folk out there go to the United nations forum and vote this damn anti death penalty down! For any of us in the U.N. who do not agree with anti death penalty nonsense, if this resolution passes we are all doomed to ultra liberal hell.

I am completely pro-Bush especially with respect to foriegn policy. First he attacked Osama's home base in Afganistan (doing in a couple monthes what the Soviets were unable to do over a period of years). This operation destoyed the central planning and training area for Al Qada. Next he attacked Saddam to remove a corrupt anti-American dictator and supporter of terrorism. The Iraq war also has the benefit of attracting Islamic extremists from all over the middle east thus making it easier to find and kill them. Once Iraq has settled down, they'll be to the middle east what Japan was to the far east: a democratic ally and example to the rest of the region. Not to mention an example for the various other corrupt dictators, don't cross the US or you may find yourself hiding in a hole looking like a homeless bum. All this was done without the consent of the UN or the French. Kerry has made clear that if he were president he would Kowtow to the weanies in Europe and make no move to defend our nation without first getting permision from the UN.

Incase you didn't know things like this, the beautiful thing about an organization not being a solid entity is that it's fluid. What essentially happened in Afganistan is that we scattered the terrorist leaders around and forced the creation of the equivalent of a splinter in every country in the Middle East. We probably didn't stop a single thing, only set the future up to be much worse.

And yes, Iraq could potentially become a "democratic ally," but it's got more potential to become the next Somalia (The world's only thriving anarchy for those who don't know).

Kowtow: intr v.: To kneel and touch the forehead to the ground in expression of deep respect, worship, or submission, as formerly done in China.
www.dictionary.com provided me with a definition just in case I had forgotten what the kowtow meant. It turns out that I was right, it means, primarily, to show respect for someone or something. We all know how horrible it is to show respect here in the US, don't we.

To the idiots talking about non-Americans not knowing what a terrorist attack feels like, you might want to read this:

http://www.defenceindia.com/def_common/int_terrorist_activity2001.html

Other places have been attacked. Other places have been being attacked for decades and we never gave a damn until it happened on US soil. Stop playing the "you don't know" card, because you're making yourself sound like idiots.

Another "fact" being repeated here is that Iraq had political connections to al-Qaeda. This is false. The truth of the matter is that the only link to Saddam with anything at tall to back it up is that Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, who associated with bin Ladin, was once hospitalized in Baghdad. al-Zarqawi also has a link to one member of the Qatari Royal Family, not to Saddam (and not even to the Qatari Royal Court as a whole for that matter).

Also, while he was a sworn enemy of the US, Saddam has NEVER made a threat against this country. The closest ATTEMPT was the (supposed) bungled assassination order for George H.W. Bush in 1993, for which there is no evidence outside of testimony given by tortured dentainees. IMO, even if it was what it is claimed to have been, attacking a former leader of a country is a far cry from attacking or threatening that country.

Wow, i guess the bombing of barracks in Lebanon wasn't terrorism, or the attack on the USS Cole, or the attack on Kobar Towers, or the first attack on the WTC. Yeah, I guess if we all studied like you Europeans, we would be so much better off, right. We would be learned like you, right.

...bzzzt...incorrect, I'm a not a European...

Try again - I'll give you a hint - I'm from one of the "Coalition of the willing" countries ;)

P.S. Read my post again, try reading the word "major" this time...and if I could really be bothered, I could get you several hundered incidents in Europe over the last few decades as opposed to your 6 or 7 examples there...:)

What it comes down to boy, is that we will not tolerate this insolence! Terrorists need to be destroyed however, we are not going about this the correct way. I am suprised that we as America have not learned our lessons from Vietnam. When fighting and unconventional war against an unconventional enemy, it does not make sense to fight it with a conventional army. While these worthless F**ks terrorize us, we fight them w/ conventional tactics. The British made the same mistake when they fought us conventionally and we whipped thier ass because we gorilla styled it out. These terrorists are not stupid, they will fight us this way, picking us apart slowly like vietnam. If we terrorize a whole countryside, how do we expect to gain the respect of the general populace? This could have been done much more efecciantly(sp) by fighting fire w/ fire and terrorizing them. ie I mean have small units of highly specialized troops who can infiltrate(CIA, special forces) and slowly annihilate them one by one. Perhaps this takes 20-30yrs, but at least we do not create a shitload extra of anti American semitism. I support our troops 1000% but I hate the way our government chooses to fight this war.

FSB, I am sure that your Bush loving friends are hating that you are on their side. lol

I dont know FSB, but he must be to us republicans like a child of Howard Dean and Micheal Moore must be to you guys.

Please, I see so much hate and dislike of the Bush followers (if there are any) in this forum, so if there are people who believe he is doing the right thing, please come here and post. I sure as hell do.

Why do you hate America? :(

New Fubaria, are you Polish By chance either that or British I would imagine?

Um, no, I'm not European...not from the continent of Europe...

You know what? I don't like America/Americans. As individuals, some of them may be interesting/cool, but on the whole, they are boorish, anti-intellectual, ridiculously self-righteous, and not understanding of the fact that no, their way is not the only way, and no, it's not necessarily the best way either. I equate America to colonial Europe, only with more rednecks.
Who could possibly like a country that produced Eminem, Britney Spears, and yes, your dear President Bush. The man who is supposed to represent your country, he cannot even speak well. His grammar and vocabulary is apalling. I wouldn't be surprised if he had learning difficulties. And he is clearly a puppet of his political party, because there is no way he would have the intelligence to pull off such an economically devious scheme as the "War on Terror." How can you wage war on a concept? In my opinion, it's more of a "War to excuse us invading non-threatening countries with poorly fabricated intelligence reports, so that we can get their oil."

Do us all a favour, grow a brain, and realise that just because you are patriotic doesn't mean you have to blindly follow a buffoon.

What it comes down to boy, is that we will not tolerate this insolence! Terrorists need to be destroyed however, we are not going about this the correct way. I am suprised that we as America have not learned our lessons from Vietnam. When fighting and unconventional war against an unconventional enemy, it does not make sense to fight it with a conventional army. While these worthless F**ks terrorize us, we fight them w/ conventional tactics. The British made the same mistake when they fought us conventionally and we whipped thier ass because we gorilla styled it out. These terrorists are not stupid, they will fight us this way, picking us apart slowly like vietnam. If we terrorize a whole countryside, how do we expect to gain the respect of the general populace? This could have been done much more efecciantly(sp) by fighting fire w/ fire and terrorizing them. ie I mean have small units of highly specialized troops who can infiltrate(CIA, special forces) and slowly annihilate them one by one. Perhaps this takes 20-30yrs, but at least we do not create a shitload extra of anti American semitism. I support our troops 1000% but I hate the way our government chooses to fight this war.

One, I believe you mean guerilla style.
Two, there are no defined terrorist countries/groups for you to wage war on at this time. Terrorists are a problem you can only deal with via security, not with war. Dropping bombs on wedding parties will not stop terrorist attacks. Sticking your nose into other countries only encourages people to hate you, turning ordinary people to terrorist acts.

@Fubaria: Thus you hail from Oz, right?

What i really like for its inherent humor is that so many americans being rabidly patriotic dont seem to bother that their grasp of their native tongue is rather weak. Or at least it seems so when i look through the posts where even one-liners are full of errors and stupid expressions. I would feel ashamed if those were my countrymen trying to defending the superiority of our society. ;)

Fat Smelly Bastards has been nominated for the new office for political purity. Adapted from the 1940s German institution called "Gestapo", this new American office has the liberties to threaten, deport, kill, silence in any way or form with any means neccessary, all political opposition to the current established regime. Any dissenting citizens who speak out against the emperor and his royal posse, are to be insulted and have their life threatened in efforts to conserve the unblemished and holy image of the most revered George W. Bush, Emperor of the United States of Assholes... err America.... sorry.

Fat Smelly Bastards has been nominated for the new office for political purity. Adapted from the 1940s German institution called "Gestapo", this new American office has the liberties to threaten, deport, kill, silence in any way or form with any means neccessary, all political opposition to the current established regime. Any dissenting citizens who speak out against the emperor and his royal posse, are to be insulted and have their life threatened in efforts to conserve the unblemished and holy image of the most revered George W. Bush, Emperor of the United States of Assholes... err America.... sorry.

That was quasi-funny until you said that I, an american, was an asshole.

http://home.insightbb.com/~c.cade/flame.jpg

That was quasi-funny until you said that I, an american, was an asshole.

http://home.insightbb.com/~c.cade/flame.jpg
:-p

How can you say I am more at risk since we invaded Iraq? There have not been any assaults on our nation since the war began. And, in fact, it moved the frontline of the terrorist's attack on us to foreign soil. Al Qaeda was reportedly directing their operatives to Iraq.

So to protect the poor Iraqi's from the big, bad evil Saddam, we turned their homeland into a frontline for the war on terror so they can be carbombed daily and live in fear of being shot by either US soldiers, pro-Saddam loyalists, and terrorists.

I support Bush. I will continue to support him. He at least can stand firm on issues unlike John Kerry who goes back and forth on every single issue. That is why he is called the WAFFLE MAN.

The majority of the people are simply happy to be out from under the leash of a dictator. There are also many soldiers who completely support what the government is doing, and are proud of what they have accomplished. Again, you only hear about those who are discontent with the situation. Also, the government stated its intention to liberate the people before the invasion, and search for the WMDs.

A decent point, except we didn't present our case to the world the reason Saddam was an imminent threat was because his people needed to be liberated...

I support Bush. I will continue to support him. He at least can stand firm on issues unlike John Kerry who goes back and forth on every single issue. That is why he is called the WAFFLE MAN.

He goes back and forth when information on an issue changes. When it makes more sense to go one way, he changes direction instead of being stuborn.

Bush's good qualities are............... Well........ *awkward silence*, *walks off stage*

I support Bush. I will continue to support him. He at least can stand firm on issues unlike John Kerry who goes back and forth on every single issue. That is why he is called the WAFFLE MAN.

Really? Bush firm on the issues? Bush has probably flip flopped more in his four years of office than Kerry in his life.

Bush stood on an anti-nation building stance during his campaign to be elected president in 2000. Remember that? Now we are almost single handedly trying to rebuild two nations!

Bush stated gay marriage should be a state issue, now he wants a constitutional amendment to ban it! Bush said Osama bin Laden was our #1 priority, now he could care less about him.

Take a good, long look at the list of Bush's flip flops and educate yourself instead of buying into all the garbage you're getting spoon fed.

See Bush's flip flops here
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=42263

If you had read closley Limey boy, you would have realized that I am not in any way in favor of this war. I do however support our boys because while we all bitch about this and that, they die in the desert heat. Defending what OUR GOVERNMENT wants. Notice how I did not mention the American people. Because if you were to pay close attention my dear chap, you would realize that a majority of Americans do not support the war. Also, If you had read closley enough, you would notice that I said that I do not agree with how we are fighting this war. Perhaps my lilly liver'd boy, you would rather us pull out and let fundamentalist fanatics rule the world so the rest of us on this globe could wait patiently for thier next cowardly attack on our citizens? Because of couse it is rather boorish at the top don't you think?

Really? Bush firm on the issues? Bush has probably flip flopped more in his four years of office than Kerry in his life.

Bush stood on an anti-nation building stance during his campaign to be elected president in 2000. Remember that? Now we are almost single handedly trying to rebuild two nations!

Bush stated gay marriage should be a state issue, now he wants a constitutional amendment to ban it! Bush said Osama bin Laden was our #1 priority, now he could care less about him.

Take a good, long look at the list of Bush's flip flops and educate yourself instead of buying into all the garbage you're getting spoon fed.

See Bush's flip flops here
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=42263


All I can say is.. HOW WRONG YOU ARE.. Bush does care about getting Osama Bin Laden. Otherwise my cousin wouldn't be in Afghanistan looking for him still. DUH!

Your cousin and his buddies are so few in numbers, there are more policemen in Manhattan. I don't think Bush is taking that too seriously.

I support Bush. I will continue to support him. He at least can stand firm on issues unlike John Kerry who goes back and forth on every single issue. That is why he is called the WAFFLE MAN.
Increase of luxury: own car, own mansion, own opinion. (Wieslaw Brudzinski)

If you had read closley Limey boy, you would have realized that I am not in any way in favor of this war. I do however support our boys because while we all bitch about this and that, they die in the desert heat. Defending what OUR GOVERNMENT wants. Notice how I did not mention the American people. Because if you were to pay close attention my dear chap, you would realize that a majority of Americans do not support the war. Also, If you had read closley enough, you would notice that I said that I do not agree with how we are fighting this war. Perhaps my lilly liver'd boy, you would rather us pull out and let fundamentalist fanatics rule the world so the rest of us on this globe could wait patiently for thier next cowardly attack on our citizens? Because of couse it is rather boorish at the top don't you think?


Man... calling him a limey.. that is not good.

So be it then lad! I guess that makes me a yank eh? or a wanker or whatever?

Your cousin and his buddies are so few in numbers, there are more policemen in Manhattan. I don't think Bush is taking that too seriously.


There are thousands of troops in Afghanistan. Alot of military police and other specialists. As for more policemen in Manhattan? Who many people live in the New York area compared to the largest city in Afganistan.

All I can say is.. HOW WRONG YOU ARE.. Bush does care about getting Osama Bin Laden. Otherwise my cousin wouldn't be in Afghanistan looking for him still. DUH!

Did you even bother looking at the list of Bush flip flops or did you just pull the ONE thing out of many you felt you could argue about? There are still about 20+ flip flops on that site I provided. Care to argue ALL of them?

I'm pretty sure your cousin is not trekking through Afghanistan with the specific orders "Find and terminate Osama bin Laden." Much more likely it is simply to find and engage terrorists in general.

Maybe you just need to see Bush's words for yourself

"I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

So to protect the poor Iraqi's from the big, bad evil Saddam, we turned their homeland into a frontline for the war on terror so they can be carbombed daily and live in fear of being shot by either US soldiers, pro-Saddam loyalists, and terrorists.
Amen to that, brother! Testify!
Meaning, I agree.

So be it then lad! I guess that makes me a yank eh? or a wanker or whatever?


Actually it was funny. I call my friend Tony a limey prick and he calls me a bloody yankee wanker lol. It is all in fun :)

Did you even bother looking at the list of Bush flip flops or did you just pull the ONE thing out of many you felt you could argue about? There are still about 20+ flip flops on that site I provided. Care to argue ALL of them?

I'm pretty sure your cousin is not trekking through Afghanistan with the specific orders "Find and terminate Osama bin Laden." Much more likely it is simply to find and engage terrorists in general.

Maybe you just need to see Bush's words for yourself

"I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

No I looked at them I just didn't care to comment as most of you people that hate Bush will just start acting childish when confronted so it is best to leave it alone. Unlike alot of people here that will get into flaming. I do not like to do that.

I expect to be flamed - but that does not change my conviction that one of the largest roots of evil in this world is nationalism. Find a war, any war, and at its root you will, with few execeptions, find nationalism there.
Understand that I do not equate nationalism and patriotism. Subtle but important difference.

Anyhow - it is my belief that this world spends too much time worrying about national boundaries, language, ethnic and religious differences. I would much rather be known as a humanitarian than a pro-American.

Oops, I thought I was posting to a erudite crowd. Nevermind ;-)

I expect to be flamed - but that does not change my conviction that one of the largest roots of evil in this world is nationalism. Find a war, any war, and at its root you will, with few execeptions, find nationalism there.
Understand that I do not equate nationalism and patriotism. Subtle but important difference.

Anyhow - it is my belief that this world spends too much time worrying about national boundaries, language, ethnic and religious differences. I would much rather be known as a humanitarian than a pro-American.

Oops, I thought I was posting to a erudite crowd. Nevermind ;-)


Yes nationalism is a bad thing. You are very right about Nationalism And Patriotism are two different things. You may love your country but hate its policies.

Your statement about rather being known as a humanitarian reminded me of the movie: Ferris Buellers Day Off.. spelling on that lol. Where he said all ISM'S are bad except humanism :)

I hope everyone here has a good day or evening. I have to get ready for a funeral for my friend. So until later. Bye bye :)

Bro, Im 42 years old, got 10 homedogs up in my crew, and Im a biker. How the h*** you gonna kick my ass? :rolleyes:

Maybe he is 41(closer then 42 to the physical peak of a male), have 11 homedogs in his crew and is an outlawbiker?

More seriously...

You are either really funny or... Naah, just say we stick to say that you're fun, cuz it's more fun that way. ;)

I expect to be flamed - but that does not change my conviction that one of the largest roots of evil in this world is nationalism. Find a war, any war, and at its root you will, with few execeptions, find nationalism there.
Understand that I do not equate nationalism and patriotism. Subtle but important difference.

Anyhow - it is my belief that this world spends too much time worrying about national boundaries, language, ethnic and religious differences. I would much rather be known as a humanitarian than a pro-American.

Oops, I thought I was posting to a erudite crowd. Nevermind ;-)

And indeed nationalism's nastier, even more hate inspiring cousin: patriotism whored out as a banner for jingoism

What are you talking about, we are all 'EE-rude-ite" here...