NationStates Jolt Archive

Does anyone here still listen to this pretty much amatuer radio station? Do you think they'll be on the air a year from now? Are their ratings ever going to climb?

yeah, they have some good shows when they arent too radically left. Also they are a national radio station (doesn't sound amatuer) and get really good ratings so I don't know where you get that. If you want to supply a link as to the ratings being low then go for it.
Also if you want to explain how they are amatuers and don't know what they are doing then I would like to hear why you think so.

yeah, they have some good shows when they arent too radically left. Also they are a national radio station (doesn't sound amatuer) and get really good ratings so I don't know where you get that. If you want to supply a link as to the ratings being low then go for it.
Also if you want to explain how they are amatuers and don't know what they are doing then I would like to hear why you think so.

A national show, sure if you think 17 out of 287 markets makes it a national station??? Yeah they are kind of amatuers, what with their phantom finances, plus they couldn't pay their rent. Yeah then you have Franken claiming that they beat Rush. Hmm I wonder in which world this happened.
The thing that makes people like Rush and others so popular is the fact that they keep talking and being entertaining, and keep the audience listening, Air America doesn't do this. I tried listening for a couple of weeks, but it seemed that they nearly always put me in a sleepy state.

Air America is WLIB in NY

http://www.nyradioguide.com/ratings.htm

Actually, their Randi Rhodes show did beat Rush in the West Palm Beach, FL market (a substantial market, and Rush's home I'd point out).

And the "not paying Rent" bit turned out to be false, that the owner of the radio station had double-billed for the bandwidth. By charging both Air America and a hispanic network for the same segment of the airwaves, the radio station violated a lot of laws.

And I am an Air America listener.

I would listen to Air America, but I can't find it, seems it's no where here. And this is Boston of all places.

Actually, their Randi Rhodes show did beat Rush in the West Palm Beach, FL market (a substantial market, and Rush's home I'd point out).

And the "not paying Rent" bit turned out to be false, that the owner of the radio station had double-billed for the bandwidth. By charging both Air America and a hispanic network for the same segment of the airwaves, the radio station violated a lot of laws.

And I am an Air America listener.

West Palm Beach? A substantial market? It's ranked 47th so I don't know if you consider it a huge market. West Palm Beach is full of old people who aren't conservative, mainly because they think the republicans will take away their pills and make them eat dog food.

I would listen to Air America, but I can't find it, seems it's no where here. And this is Boston of all places.


exactly!!

I would listen to Air America, but I can't find it, seems it's no where here. And this is Boston of all places.Apparently they're down to 15 stations nationwide. I'm pretty sure they still offer streaming audio online and you can get them on satellite radio. Try Airamericaradio.com if you're really interested.


I personally hate the name, I always think of the old Air America, the CIA smuggling organization of the VietNam war era.

the reason why the rightwing hijacked the american media and now concolidated it into the hands of 3 evil corporations was exactly to seek to marginalize enlightened voices you hear on Air America--but even with its muted voice it has far more impact on people hearing it then regular rightwing hate media has because deep down listeners know its the aweful truth

Does anyone here still listen to this pretty much amatuer radio station? Do you think they'll be on the air a year from now? Are their ratings ever going to climb?
I don't know anything about Air America except that they're a radio station that dares not to spew Republican hate propaganda. But thanks for this totally non-malicious, fair post.

Apparently they're down to 15 stations nationwide. I'm pretty sure they still offer streaming audio online and you can get them on satellite radio. Try Airamericaradio.com if you're really interested.


I personally hate the name, I always think of the old Air America, the CIA smuggling organization of the VietNam war era.


Yeah, something like, "Gurrilla Radio" would have ben better, and more appropiate, nameing it after a RATM song. Oh well...

I don't know anything about Air America except that they're a radio station that dares not to spew Republican hate propaganda. But thanks for this totally non-malicious, fair post.

You really have issues don't you? How are stations spewing hate, I don't hear them supporting the KKK, or being against blacks. Just because someone holds opinions that differ from yours, does not mean that they are hateful, but to your liberals it is hateful. Can you post any hateful remarks that Rush or others have made. You'd better start listening to that station as I don't think they'll be around for long.

BTW Thanks for talking down to me.

Shove It

West Palm Beach? A substantial market? It's ranked 47th so I don't know if you consider it a huge market. West Palm Beach is full of old people who aren't conservative, mainly because they think the republicans will take away their pills and make them eat dog food.


Actually, Rush is from Palm Beach, which, while it may be in the same radio market, is vastly different from West Palm. Though, down there you've got all the Kerry-esque liberal elites that probably eat up the Stuart Smalley Show on AA.

Shove It


hahaha, yup shove it. I prefer the Happy Days', "Sit on it". You pencil neck geek.

Hey everybody! There's a dead horse! C'mon let's beat it!!!

Actually, Rush is from Palm Beach, which, while it may be in the same radio market, is vastly different from West Palm. Though, down there you've got all the Kerry-esque liberal elites that probably eat up the Stuart Smalley Show on AA.

You are correct, West Palm beach is vastly different then Palm Beach. The cops in West Palm beach pull you over if you "don't belong there".

AA is funny though, they have 3 stations in Hawaii, one in Alaska, but none in LA which just happens to be the 2nd largest market, and a liberal paradise.
I just wonder if they have plans to open in another top market, sorry Anchorage isn't in the top 10.

I don't think that Air America would make it in Los Angeles because we already have a Pacifica Radio station here.

KPFK 90.7 biyatch!

hahaha, yup shove it. I prefer the Happy Days', "Sit on it". You pencil neck geek.
Teresa Heinz can snap your pencil neck :gundge:

I don't think that Air America would make it in Los Angeles because we already have a Pacifica Radio station here.

KPFK 90.7 biyatch!

Yeah a truely great station! I couldn't find any ratings for them, you might be the only listener. Biyatch!

Teresa Heinz can snap your pencil neck :gundge:

Sure she could, she would have a better chance then that wuss of a husband of hers.

Yeah a truely great station! I couldn't find any ratings for them, you might be the only listener. Biyatch!

You can't find anything about the Pacifica stations?

OH - I don't know much about how they determine ratings... they probably don't count Pacifica stations in them because they are publicly funded and don't accept corporate contributions, nor do they have commercials. Its great, they can break any scandal without having to worry about theor corporate masters cutting their funding. SO maybe they are out of the ratings loop. *shrug* In any event, they are extreemely popular in Los Angeles and the only station that gives you real news and not infotainment.

I don't know anything about Air America except that they're a radio station that dares not to spew Republican hate propaganda. But thanks for this totally non-malicious, fair post.
Because your post was completely and totally fair and devoid of malice. Explain the phrase "Republican hate propaganda" Where excactly do you hear this "hate propaganda?"

Actually, Rush is from Palm Beach, which, while it may be in the same radio market, is vastly different from West Palm. Though, down there you've got all the Kerry-esque liberal elites that probably eat up the Stuart Smalley Show on AA.

As I said, his home market. The West Palm Beach market includes such notable nearby cities such as Palm Beach, Royal Palm Beach, and Palm Beach Gardens.

Actually, the radio channel that Randi Rhodes is on also carries Rush Limbaugh and other conservative radio personalities such as Glenn Beck and Phil Harvey. WJNO prides itself on carrying both sides to the issue, something I respect honestly.

Well, in New York, WLIB which is the flagship station, finished the last quarter half a point down to Limbaugh overall, and Franken's show was the head-to-head competition. Now considering that WLIB largely started from scratch with an audience, because when you change formats, you generally lose the previous audience, that's damn impressive. They pulled a 2.2 in New York, as compared to Limbaugh's 2.7. It took Limbaugh literally years before he pulled those kinds of numbers, so I'd say Franken ain't doing too shabby.

But it gets better for Air America when you go farther down the playlist. Randi Rhodes is even stronger in the drive time ratings slot, and the Majority Report with Janeane Garofalo and Sam Seder (my favorite show of the bunch) is actually winning its time slot.

So the short answer is, Air America is doing fine, they're attracting real advertisers and now that they've actually got people in charge who aren't lying about how much money they've got in the bank, they're on the road to success. It looks like they're going to wind up going the syndication route after all, but in the long run that's likely the better move.

Does anyone here still listen to this pretty much amatuer radio station? Do you think they'll be on the air a year from now? Are their ratings ever going to climb?
Listened the first couple of days, it was trash. Repeating debunked lies about Bush, and amatuerish name-calling.

About Rush, doesn't he say stuff about "feminazis"? From what I hear about Michael Savage, he's pretty bad too.
On a somewhat unrelated topic, I heard a few seconds of Rush talking to a caller about the need for "I'm not a liberal" bumper stickers on BMWs. The burning issues of the day, right.

About Rush, doesn't he say stuff about "feminazis"? From what I hear about Michael Savage, he's pretty bad too.
On a somewhat unrelated topic, I heard a few seconds of Rush talking to a caller about the need for "I'm not a liberal" bumper stickers on BMWs. The burning issues of the day, right.
I heard a few seconds of Majority Report and Janine Crapahole was calling people cracker. I don't hink a few seconds of the show represent the show as a whole though. Guess that is the difference between us, left and right.

I listen to Air America a lot. Randi Rhodes is a proven radio commodity already and her show is only getting better. She has shown that she does well in radio markets. Heck, she has her own show on Clear Channel even. Al Franken's show is getting better and is now going to be on television as well. Unfiltered is starting to take root as a fair morning show but Bob and Tom are still better. But what's thrilling is that Mike Malloy is now on late night! In fact, I'm on hold waiting to talk to him right now! I'm thrilled because I haven't heard him on the radio for 5 months now.

Air America is building up much in the same way that Clear Channel did 2 decades ago. They are buying stations and time on stations and its good to see they are finally doing it the right way. It is a refreshing breath of air in a sea clogged of right wing nutjobs.

I listen to Air America a lot. Randi Rhodes is a proven radio commodity already and her show is only getting better. She has shown that she does well in radio markets. Heck, she has her own show on Clear Channel even. Al Franken's show is getting better and is now going to be on television as well. Unfiltered is starting to take root as a fair morning show but Bob and Tom are still better. But what's thrilling is that Mike Malloy is now on late night! In fact, I'm on hold waiting to talk to him right now! I'm thrilled because I haven't heard him on the radio for 5 months now.

Air America is building up much in the same way that Clear Channel did 2 decades ago. They are buying stations and time on stations and its good to see they are finally doing it the right way. It is a refreshing breath of air in a sea clogged of right wing nutjobs.
WHAT! They finally signed Mike!

I didn't see this. Cool, now I need to find the stream

Indeed! Mike is on from 10-1 each weeknight now!

By the way, Air America had over 1 million streamers on the internet their first month alone. I'd say they are gaining a solid audience.

Indeed! Mike is on from 10-1 each weeknight now!

By the way, Air America had over 1 million streamers on the internet their first month alone. I'd say they are gaining a solid audience.
Basically gave him his own slot back. What kind of freedom is he getting from the higher-ups?

Complete freedom! And if you're listening....when he gets to the caller in West Virginia...that's me. I'm going to ask to be the Charleston bureau chief.

Complete freedom! And if you're listening....when he gets to the caller in West Virginia...that's me. I'm going to ask to be the Charleston bureau chief.
Just got real player installed (ugh), they are on commercial. Better then the old crap on IE (Anaconda!)

air america is the left's feeble attempt to actualy put a foothold in the talk radio market. they are failing so dismaly that they can barely even pay their employees.

air america is the left's feeble attempt to actualy put a foothold in the talk radio market. they are failing so dismaly that they can barely even pay their employees.
Yeah. Right.

Ah, I missed that show so much.

Air America is a real craptacular. Not working out for you liberals to own CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and Telemundo?

Complete freedom! And if you're listening....when he gets to the caller in West Virginia...that's me. I'm going to ask to be the Charleston bureau chief.
Heard it. Great to have him back...

Yeah, I waited on hold for 2 hours....unbelievable that this is just his first night back and the boards are totally swamped with callers for him. Air America is alive and kicking...

HAH, I'm now the Charleston, WV bureau chief.

Glad to see the wingnuts are still in full effect here--wouldn't want everyone to think this place was suddenly overrun with sensible liberals.

And Air America regularly has over a million disparate streams every day for every one of its shows. You can listen here. (http://airamericaradio.com) Don't believe what the wingnuts are saying about them--listen for yourself. They're scared because they've never seen progressives as united as they are today. They can't handle it, so they call people names and deride them with lies, but we'll win in the end, because our ideas are better, and now we have a platform to get them out to the rest of America.

And before any more of you wingnuts come out with that inane "liberal media" bullshit again, save it. You're the only ones who believe that crap any more.

Air America is a real craptacular. Not working out for you liberals to own CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and Telemundo?

MSNBC is liberal? This is the station that gave us that trainwreck "The Savage Nation." That didn't last long, though, because Savage is too mentally unstable to function in front of a camera. MSNBC also carries the Dennis Miller show. That's soooo liberal, right? What about Scarborough? And Imus? All of them are on MSNBC. And ABC is the network that broadcasts Hannity's "fair and balanced" radio show. ABC is also connected with Disney, the ones who didn't want to release "Fahrenheit 911"

Y Telemundo? Que?

Some liberal media.

Actually, CNBC is the one that carries Dennis Miller, but other than that, you're right one. Let me add another one to the list for MSNBC--they cancelled Phil Donahue's show while it was the highest rated show on the network because he was too liberal and was openly questioning the war in Iraq before the invasion. MSNBC liberal? Hah!

Actually, CNBC is the one that carries Dennis Miller, but other than that, you're right one. Let me add another one to the list for MSNBC--they cancelled Phil Donahue's show while it was the highest rated show on the network because he was too liberal and was openly questioning the war in Iraq before the invasion. MSNBC liberal? Hah!
thats why Im boycotting MSNBC

Randy Rhodes show:

"You see, that's the difference between a Republican candidate and a Democrat candidate. The Republican wants to shoot you. They all do. The Democrat doesnt."

"Kerry is for the working man. He refused to cross a piket line (a police strike) while Bush would have hired more police to beat the people (on the piket line) on their heads with their night sticks."

Actually, CNBC is the one that carries Dennis Miller, but other than that, you're right one. Let me add another one to the list for MSNBC--they cancelled Phil Donahue's show while it was the highest rated show on the network because he was too liberal and was openly questioning the war in Iraq before the invasion. MSNBC liberal? Hah!

Um... where did you get your information that the Phil Donahue show was the highest show on the network?

Um... where did you get your information that the Phil Donahue show was the highest show on the network?

I thought he was the lowest hence why they removed him. If he was the highest, they wouldn't have!

I don't hink (sic) a few seconds of the show represent the show as a whole though. Guess that is the difference between us, left and right.



* As the race for the White House gets underway, it is becoming increasingly clear what key positions the candidates will run on. While John Kerry will probably try to promote himself as a capable leader in a time of war, George Bush is already touted as the War President. Bush's recent anouncement that he intends to reassess the intellignece gathering process was countered by Kerry's proposel to improve the intelligence community. By far, the biggest difference between the two presidential nominees, however, is their personal view on whether or not a few seconds of a show represents the show as a whole; while Kerry maintains that one can infer a general understanding into the nature of a program based on a clip, Bush strongly opposes the notion because, as he put it, "You just can't never tell." It is not clear how these strong positions will play out to the voters, but it seems clear to this reporter that it will be the defineing factor in this polarized election year!

Shove It

There ya go...oh yeah...that will beat them in educated discourse...when all else fails..use profanity..that'll show us Republican & conservatives were wrong.

lol

while I wouldn't call "Shove it" profanity... I would agree that that is no way to talk to someone just because you disagree with them.

I'm glad to hear Air America is doing so well.

As for Donahue I had heard that they were getting really good ratings but not that thye had the highest ratings. Although I wouldn't doubt it. He was pulled for questioning the war though.

I thought he was the lowest hence why they removed him. If he was the highest, they wouldn't have!

They did, and they made it quite clear that they did it because he didn't support the war. Go back and check the ratings for yourself. Donahue's show was the highest rated show the network had.

There ya go...oh yeah...that will beat them in educated discourse...when all else fails..use profanity..that'll show us Republican & conservatives were wrong.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

Listenership is not just AM radio ratings.

They have the #1 internet streaming show. They are increasing their markets, and Al Franken's show (arguably the weakest) is going to television.

Given the saturation of the coporate-controlled middle-right leaning media - Air America is doing pretty well. No matter what Rush says.

Seriously. Don't take my opinion for it. Listen to several shows over a period of time and make up your own mind how "good" it is. Obviously, much will depend on where you stand politcally...

For me, the current administration is probably the most ethically and fiscally corrupt batch of black-hearted running dogs we have ever known - that makes Air America freaking REFRESHING by comparrison.

For those that "drink the Kool-aid" and believe Coulter/Rush/Savage are keeping America on the right path, AA will seem like a nightmare.

WHere was I when everyone decided to call conservatives, drinkers of kool-aid? What does this mean anyhow? I guess I am out of the loop.

@Sumamba

"Drinking kool-aid" is a phrase that dates back to the Reverend Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. Basically Jim Jones had his people kill a US Senator, then afterwards they all drank koolaid laced with cyanide willingly rather than see Jim arrested.

oh ok ty.... the phrase is so popular all of a sudden... or is that just on the NS boards?

oh ok ty.... the phrase is so popular all of a sudden... or is that just on the NS boards?

I'm thinking NS Boards because this is the only place I've heard it! If it was popular outside of NS, I would've heard about it on that you can trust me on!

I'm thinking NS Boards because this is the only place I've heard it! If it was popular outside of NS, I would've heard about it on that you can trust me on!
I've heard about it on political message boards...just go to the right ones. The ones that throw around insults, not arguments, like RightNation.us

I've heard about it on political message boards...just go to the right ones. The ones that throw around insults, not arguments, like RightNation.us

Throw around insults sounds like here too on occassion! LOL so what is the difference

Throw around insults sounds like here too on occassion! LOL so what is the difference
You're not looking in the right places, well, find a board where liberals/conservatives are heavily outnumbered, like RN or the DU.

Hey, you heard it here, didn't you?

(I read Return Engadgements, and it was really good, but now I have to wait for the next one to come out)

You're not looking in the right places, well, find a board where liberals/conservatives are heavily outnumbered, like RN or the DU.

Hey, you heard it here, didn't you?

(I read Return Engadgements, and it was really good, but now I have to wait for the next one to come out)

(Sad at the end but yea it was good! Can't wait to see how the next book turns this war!)

(Sad at the end but yea it was good! Can't wait to see how the next book turns this war!)
(Yep, and I think that the US will win this one, if not by sheer force, then by the bomb that the CSA turned down.)

(Yep, and I think that the US will win this one, if not by sheer force, then by the bomb that the CSA turned down.)

(I noticed that and was wondering when that was going to come up! We should do this in a different thread though ;))

A comment to those who argue about the liberal/conservative slant of the media.

First off, let us not imagine that running two or three conservative programs makes a station conservative. Those programs make up only a very small part of total programming on a station, and thereby cannot be said to represent the media as a whole. Also, cancelling a program for making a statement that was-at the time-tremendously outside the mainstream audience and offensive to many listeners cannot be regarded as a sign of bias. For all their imagined idealism, television news stations are businesses, and Phil Donahue was cancelled purely for business reasons, being that the public backlash for his statements could have harmed CNBC more than cancelling him has.

Rather than carefully examining a small part of the organization's programming or business model, one should look at the nature of its reporters. After all, it's reporters who bring the news to us. Someone will no doubt state, in response to this, that a reporter's political agenda will not affect his reporting. They are fooling themselves I do not claim that the effect of one's political beliefs on his/her reporting is intentional. Rather, I state that it is unavoidable. Think about it. Our politics have become so much a part of who we are that we cannot separate ourselves from them. A reporter will say things as he or she sees them, which will naturally be affected by his/her way of thinking.

Now, on to the point. A Pew Survey has found that self-described liberals (34%) greatly outnumber self-described conservatives (7%) in the newsroom. Furthermore, it found that self-described moderates (59%) actually tended to score more liberal in terms of their values than the average American. These numbers were for TV, print, and radio news outlets. I can't find the study itself, but here's an article about it that you can read:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000517184

(I apologize that this is not an actual link. I'm not very experienced with the message board system, yet.)

Another thing to consider with this issue: read! I, for myself, have read both Coulter's Slander and Franken's Lies, and the Lying Liars who Tell Them. If you've only read one book, you're not getting a full spectrum of ideas from which to decide. That is all.

Listenership is not just AM radio ratings.

They have the #1 internet streaming show. They are increasing their markets, and Al Franken's show (arguably the weakest) is going to television.

Given the saturation of the coporate-controlled middle-right leaning media - Air America is doing pretty well. No matter what Rush says.

Seriously. Don't take my opinion for it. Listen to several shows over a period of time and make up your own mind how "good" it is. Obviously, much will depend on where you stand politcally...

For me, the current administration is probably the most ethically and fiscally corrupt batch of black-hearted running dogs we have ever known - that makes Air America freaking REFRESHING by comparrison.

For those that "drink the Kool-aid" and believe Coulter/Rush/Savage are keeping America on the right path, AA will seem like a nightmare.

Can you back up your claims? Which one is the most listened to show?

I've listened to the shows, Franken was almost painful to hear, don't get me started on Garofolo, ich! Just because people think you are "funny" it doesn't mean you have radio skills.

"Black hearted running dogs" cool, nice one.

15 stations, 4 of which aren't in the lower 48. Truely a great sign.

Its quite simple to back up the claims. Check the ratings. Check the ratings in areas where their stations are. Check the streaming ratings for the internet. You might even check with Clear Channel on Randi Rhodes to see how she's doing. You've obviously looked to see where the stations are. Now go that extra step and check the ratings for those stations.

@Sumamba

"Drinking kool-aid" is a phrase that dates back to the Reverend Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. Basically Jim Jones had his people kill a US Senator, then afterwards they all drank koolaid laced with cyanide willingly rather than see Jim arrested.

It's been contended that the deaths there were more of a slaughter and mop up, than a mass suicide. (stories of needle marks, people shot in the back, bodies dragged back to the camp from the surrounding jungle, etc). I can't attest to the validity, I wasnt' there. But it wouldn't surprise me, our history is filled with all kinds of Black Ops.
If I find the books I read it in, I will post.

No insult intended, beyond a fervent plea for people to "Question Authority" . I get concerned when the press gives a Pass to any one group (in this case, NeoCons).

[QUOTE=Thunderland]Its quite simple to back up the claims. Check the ratings. Check the ratings in areas where their stations are. Check the streaming ratings for the internet. You might even check with Clear Channel on Randi Rhodes to see how she's doing. You've obviously looked to see where the stations are. Now go that extra step and check the ratings for those stations.[/QUOTE


Like even visit their website....
17 stations active
1 more coming
internet streaming
also: both Sirius and XM
Not too bad for a fledgling network, with inexperienced (some would argue untalented) talent.

Ratings for Air America Radio
The Air America Radio ratings are very strong, especially for a startup network with more than its share of birthing pains. The Franken show was not quite as strong as was hoped for, but it held its own, and the Majority Report dominated its time slot for talk radio.

According to Daily Kos, The Majority Report with Janeane Garofalo and Sam Seder won the #1 Talk Show slot in the ratings--beating out WABC's 2.7 with a 2.9 rating--in the key 25-54 demographic in New York City. Garofalo and Seder edged out Laura Ingraham on WABC, and absolutely smashed Michael Savage on WOR, which only got a 1.2 rating.

Al Franken's ratings were not quite as good as that, but they were still competitive. According to Hoffmania, in the 25-54 demographic, Franken scored a 2.2 versus a 2.7 by Limbaugh--not the trouncing we expected and hoped for, but still highly respectable considering that AAR began at pretty much zero. Considering that it took Limbaugh five years to reach even close to his present ratings levels, the fact that WLIB has gone from dead last to competitive in just three months is saying quite a bit.

Not that the conservatives will pay any attention to this; they'll point to the overall ratings, which include the above-55 numbers (weak for advertising) where WABC dominates. But where the ratings count, WLIB is holding its own against WABC. And as AAR continues to add stations--likely more and more, now that the first quarter's ratings are out and showing strong advertising prowess--the next year or so will tell whether AAR will survive, and perhaps become the leader in talk radio.

I'd hate to see what Mike is going to do to their bandwidth...

A comment to those who argue about the liberal/conservative slant of the media.

First off, let us not imagine that running two or three conservative programs makes a station conservative. Those programs make up only a very small part of total programming on a station, and thereby cannot be said to represent the media as a whole. Also, cancelling a program for making a statement that was-at the time-tremendously outside the mainstream audience and offensive to many listeners cannot be regarded as a sign of bias. For all their imagined idealism, television news stations are businesses, and Phil Donahue was cancelled purely for business reasons, being that the public backlash for his statements could have harmed CNBC more than cancelling him has.

Rather than carefully examining a small part of the organization's programming or business model, one should look at the nature of its reporters. After all, it's reporters who bring the news to us. Someone will no doubt state, in response to this, that a reporter's political agenda will not affect his reporting. They are fooling themselves I do not claim that the effect of one's political beliefs on his/her reporting is intentional. Rather, I state that it is unavoidable. Think about it. Our politics have become so much a part of who we are that we cannot separate ourselves from them. A reporter will say things as he or she sees them, which will naturally be affected by his/her way of thinking.

Now, on to the point. A Pew Survey has found that self-described liberals (34%) greatly outnumber self-described conservatives (7%) in the newsroom. Furthermore, it found that self-described moderates (59%) actually tended to score more liberal in terms of their values than the average American. These numbers were for TV, print, and radio news outlets. I can't find the study itself, but here's an article about it that you can read:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000517184

(I apologize that this is not an actual link. I'm not very experienced with the message board system, yet.)

Another thing to consider with this issue: read! I, for myself, have read both Coulter's Slander and Franken's Lies, and the Lying Liars who Tell Them. If you've only read one book, you're not getting a full spectrum of ideas from which to decide. That is all.
Donahues antiwar opinions at the time were POPULAR with the american public the majority of whom didnt want an invasion of Iraq at the time so your point on that matter is bogus

Can you back up your claims? Which one is the most listened to show?

I've listened to the shows, Franken was almost painful to hear, don't get me started on Garofolo, ich! Just because people think you are "funny" it doesn't mean you have radio skills.

"Black hearted running dogs" cool, nice one.

15 stations, 4 of which aren't in the lower 48. Truely a great sign.
and theyre only 2 months old too. They got a pretty powerful start --even the corporate communists who own clear channel started out small

Donahues antiwar opinions at the time were POPULAR with the american public the majority of whom didnt want an invasion of Iraq at the time so your point on that matter is bogus

You claim that Donahue's opinions were popular. I disagree. For one, I know that, in my home state of Wisconsin, Senator Russ Feingold weathered significant backlash for not supporting the Iraq war resolution. Many, many angry letters were written. More quantitatively, CNN polls in April show 73% of Americans believed that it was "worth going to war in Iraq." Pre-war polls show overwhelming support for the idea.

"
July 01, 2003
Fewer Say Iraq Worth Going to War Over
Failure to find weapons of mass destruction, continuing conflict appear to have major impact


by David W. Moore


Americans are now far less positive about the merits of going to war in Iraq than they were two months ago, according to the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll. Currently, 56% of Americans say the situation in Iraq was "worth going to war over," while 42% disagree. In mid-April, just after the United States captured Baghdad, Americans said the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over by a 73% to 23% margin. The major reasons for the decline appear to be the coalition's failure to find weapons of mass destruction and the continuing turmoil in Iraq. The major reasons why Americans support the war are the improvement of national security and removing Saddam Hussein from power."

Um... where did you get your information that the Phil Donahue show was the highest show on the network?
Here's one source (http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-11.htm)for the story. It was originally published on allyourtv.com and was reprinted by Common Dreams. Satisfied?

You claim that Donahue's opinions were popular. I disagree. For one, I know that, in my home state of Wisconsin, Senator Russ Feingold weathered significant backlash for not supporting the Iraq war resolution. Many, many angry letters were written. More quantitatively, CNN polls in April show 73% of Americans believed that it was "worth going to war in Iraq." Pre-war polls show overwhelming support for the idea.

You can't rewrite ratings...

Disagree all you'd like but its akin to disagreeing that you breathe oxygen. Ratings are what they are and his were the highest on his network.

You claim that Donahue's opinions were popular. I disagree. For one, I know that, in my home state of Wisconsin, Senator Russ Feingold weathered significant backlash for not supporting the Iraq war resolution. Many, many angry letters were written. More quantitatively, CNN polls in April show 73% of Americans believed that it was "worth going to war in Iraq." Pre-war polls show overwhelming support for the idea.
those polls mustve been flawed or more foxnews lies since I clearly remember record numbers of people on a GLOBAL basis opposing this unjust war with daily marches in the streets-Donahue was censored because the corporate media supported the war not because the people did

@Sumamba

"Drinking kool-aid" is a phrase that dates back to the Reverend Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. Basically Jim Jones had his people kill a US Senator, then afterwards they all drank koolaid laced with cyanide willingly rather than see Jim arrested.

That's the official line anyway... the true story is that he US Senator in question was murdered for uncovering the CIA's involvement in the Jim Jones camp and that most of people there were shot in the back of their heads.

The impression I got of the Donahue firing was entirely different.

DOnahue had the highest rated show on MSNBC at the time of his firing, but he also had the best time slot on MSNBC . The Donahue show was the worse rated of the shows like his in his time slot, even at the time of his firing. Even now, Harball in the same slot as Donahue used to occupy is MSNBC's highest rated show. The decision to fire him came before the surge (which it was, check his ratings for the full time his show was on the air instead of just the ratings of his last shows) in his ratings took place. Now don't get me wrong, I am not passing judgement by using the word surge and stating that it was only temporary, it may have been that after 8 months his show had finally found an audience, but since his show was cancelled we'll never know, and anyway the firing decision came before the surge.

Now about the decision to fire Donahue. to say that he was fired for his anti-war position based upon MSNBC executive's memos is disenginious. Donahue was hired and given his primo slot to go toe-to-toe with O'Reilly on FOX. Donahue was pulling, at his peak, less than one-sixth the audience of O'Reily. Donhue was pulling less than half the audience of Connie Chung in her mediocre show on CNN. The network execs (from the memos) decided that the reason he was pulling such a small audience was that his anti-war stance was alienating viewers. (I've never had any respect for network execs programing decisions and this one has in no way changed my opinion of them.) The fired him, not because he held anti-war positions, but because of his low ratings in this primo time slot which they believed were caused by his anti-war positions.

Now a few interesting thiughts I've had on the subject. What would have been the effect if he were moved to a time slot not opposite O'Riely? I doubt it would have helped him, I think very few potential Donahue viewers didn't watch him because they were too busy watching O'Rielly at the same time.
What does it say about O'Riely viewers versus potential Donahue viewers that the former is able to pull such a large audience in the 8PM slot while Donahue has such a small audience? Are O'Rielly viewers glued to the idiot box while Donahue viewers have better things to do with their time, or are O'riely viewers willing to forgo the prime-time offerings of the entertainment networks in order to watch a news channel while potential Donahue viewers were/are unwilling to ditch The 70's Show for a more serious show.

The impression I got of the Donahue firing was entirely different.

DOnahue had the highest rated show on MSNBC at the time of his firing, but he also had the best time slot on MSNBC . The Donahue show was the worse rated of the shows like his in his time slot, even at the time of his firing. Even now, Harball in the same slot as Donahue used to occupy is MSNBC's highest rated show. The decision to fire him came before the surge (which it was, check his ratings for the full time his show was on the air instead of just the ratings of his last shows) in his ratings took place. Now don't get me wrong, I am not passing judgement by using the word surge and stating that it was only temporary, it may have been that after 8 months his show had finally found an audience, but since his show was cancelled we'll never know, and anyway the firing decision came before the surge.

Now about the decision to fire Donahue. to say that he was fired for his anti-war position based upon MSNBC executive's memos is disenginious. Donahue was hired and given his primo slot to go toe-to-toe with O'Reilly on FOX. Donahue was pulling, at his peak, less than one-sixth the audience of O'Reily. Donhue was pulling less than half the audience of Connie Chung in her mediocre show on CNN. The network execs (from the memos) decided that the reason he was pulling such a small audience was that his anti-war stance was alienating viewers. (I've never had any respect for network execs programing decisions and this one has in no way changed my opinion of them.) The fired him, not because he held anti-war positions, but because of his low ratings in this primo time slot which they believed were caused by his anti-war positions.

Now a few interesting thiughts I've had on the subject. What would have been the effect if he were moved to a time slot not opposite O'Riely? I doubt it would have helped him, I think very few potential Donahue viewers didn't watch him because they were too busy watching O'Rielly at the same time.
What does it say about O'Riely viewers versus potential Donahue viewers that the former is able to pull such a large audience in the 8PM slot while Donahue has such a small audience? Are O'Rielly viewers glued to the idiot box while Donahue viewers have better things to do with their time, or are O'riely viewers willing to forgo the prime-time offerings of the entertainment networks in order to watch a news channel while potential Donahue viewers were/are unwilling to ditch The 70's Show for a more serious show.
Donahue wasnt given a realistic chance of competing-his show was still cancelled in its embryonic stages--O'Lielly was given years to build a viewer base and the corporate special interests invested heavily into making him succeed--Donahue had none of these advantages, all he had was the aweful truth

Donahue wasnt given a realistic chance of competing-his show was still cancelled in its embryonic stages--O'Lielly was given years to build a viewer base and the corporate special interests invested heavily into making him succeed--Donahue had none of these advantages, all he had was the aweful truth
I don't disagree with the initial premise (although I would use a dimilar but different one*), I do disagree with your facts though. Eight months is too long for show to still be in its embryonic stages, 2 months is about the max for show gestation , after two months it should be undrgoing tweeking not development. O'Rielly didn't so much have years to develop a viewer base as have an open field to work in - his format was so different that from the begining he held 100% of the audience for similar shows in his time slot, his was the only show of it's kind. And Donahue did come to his show with a big advantage, his viewer base from The Phil Donahue Show,they just never showed up for his MSNBC show.

*The premise I would use is not that he wasn't given a realistic chance to compete, but that he wasn't given realistic goals to meet.

those polls mustve been flawed or more foxnews lies since I clearly remember record numbers of people on a GLOBAL basis opposing this unjust war with daily marches in the streets-Donahue was censored because the corporate media supported the war not because the people did

The polls were CNN. Not Fox news. In fact, the article from which I drew them was posted immediately after my last post. CNBC does not have a truly global audience. The people that pay their bills are almost entirely within the United States. The polls were of U.S. citizens, i.e., the people about whom CNBC needed to be concerned. So, again, he was cancelled for purely business reasons.

Also, do not delude yourself into thinking that a poll from Fox news is automatically invalid. You can actually check up on how the poll was conducted, including what questions were asked and of whom. Most news sources(like CNN did in the article)--including Fox news--will give the information right next to the poll results. Fox is every bit as good of a news organization as any other station, and will be until someone comes up with actual evidence to show otherwise. As no one has done so, no one has any right to categorically dismiss Fox information.

Finally, that's twice now, MKULTRA, that I've presented ideas, backed up by evidence, and you've provided a reflex denial with no manner of evidence. This isn't a very effective way to have a debate. Please end this pattern.

You can't rewrite ratings...

Disagree all you'd like but its akin to disagreeing that you breathe oxygen. Ratings are what they are and his were the highest on his network.

Yes, the ratings were the highest on his network. However, as Squi has already pointed out, that's not very impressive. A far larger group of people could have stopped watching other shows on the network because of him than he ever could have drawn. Also, his ratings were largely dependent upon the time before he actively took up an anti-war stance and was cancelled. If the plug hadn't been pulled, who is to say what would have happened?

Squi, you make a very interesting point. I'll have to check that out.

You guys keep bringing up MSNBC's ratings as compared to Fox and CNN as though they were competing in the past and had slipped. That hadn't happened. MSNBC has been sucking hind tit ever since they went on the air.

And as to the cancellation of Donahue's show, memos released by MSNBC executives indicated that the reason the show was gone was because they didn't want to have an anti-war voice on the air during the run-up to the war in Iraq. They were trying to outFox Fox, and we all know how well that works. Why go for faux-Fox when you can get the real thing elsewhere.

and its really The Simpsons that made FOX popular. :p

well in my world anyway :D

You guys keep bringing up MSNBC's ratings as compared to Fox and CNN as though they were competing in the past and had slipped. That hadn't happened. MSNBC has been sucking hind tit ever since they went on the air.

And as to the cancellation of Donahue's show, memos released by MSNBC executives indicated that the reason the show was gone was because they didn't want to have an anti-war voice on the air during the run-up to the war in Iraq. They were trying to outFox Fox, and we all know how well that works. Why go for faux-Fox when you can get the real thing elsewhere.Before anything else and to return to the original topic, Al Frankin's show is scheduled to be broadcast on cable TV, Sundance (OK, it's not HBO or USA but it's still TV) starting Sept 7th.


Actually I've never said anything about ratings slipping, and I don't recall seeing anyone else doing so. MSNBC's ratings were miserable compared to FOX's and poor compared to CNN's (with regards to Donahue's slot), and the memos from the MSNBC executives show that they were aware of that. I think the MSNBC execs were "misguided" (I am trying to be charitable) in using the ratings of FOX as standards for Donahue. As Far As I Know, MSNBC did not use CNN and FOX ratings as standards for thier early rating goals for anything but Donahue. They did however base their expectations for Donahue upon the ratings of FOX's 8PM show, and went to great effort to get Donahue and make Donahue thier flagship program to compete with CNN and FOX (perhaps too much effort, but that's going way off topic). I think their expectations were unrealistic from the begining for Donahue and a sign of how disconected the NBC programing execs were with reality. But no matter how unrealistic the expectations for Donahue were, there were there and were not meet. The continued lackluster performance of MSNBC is a sign of the competence of their programming execs.

And since I've spent so much time on the execs at NBC, I go into the memos a bit. I originally used the word "disingenious" to refer to the claim that Donahue was fired for his anti-war views. What the memos show is that NBC considered Donahue anti-war and leftist and felt that being anti-war and leftist was going-to-cost/costing them ratings and/or credability (long term ratings). If you just say he was fired for his anti-war views, you give the impression that the NBC execs objected to his views, not the effect his views were percieved as having on the ratings. It is probable that Donahue could have read old comicbooks aloud if he could get the ratings numbers O'Rielly was getting. What NBC execs objected to was his "poor' ratings, and they attributed this to his liberalism, to get good ratings they only needed to bring on some energetic conservatives (Savage Nation anyone?) was the reasoning.

And we see how wonderfully that strategy has worked for them--they're still the number three cable news network and not going anywhere fast.

The only reason this even came up was because some morons on here were claiming MSNBC was a liberal network--the firing of Donahue while he had the highest rated show on their network was my rejoinder to disprove that allegation.

It's good news about the Sundance channel in my opinion. Any exposure is good exposure, even if it's on a minor channel.

While perhaps the majority of journalists have liberal views on social matters, far fewer are liberal when it comes to economics. Furthermore, to say that the actual journalists determine the content of whatever media outlet they are representing is disingenuous. Editors, Producers and CEO's (who are overwhelmingly conservative,) determine what is and what is not shown. Hence all the stories we hear about memo's determining content. Journalists, unfortunately, do not have free reign.

I wish I had Air America in my neighborhood.

I wish I had Air America in my neighborhood.You can get streaming audio here :
http://airamericaradio.com/ click on one of the links that says "listen live".

Bah! I thought this was going to be about the action/comedy film with Mel Gibson in it. :mad:

Say, is that an uzi...

Bah! I thought this was going to be about the action/comedy film with Mel Gibson in it. :mad:

Say, is that an uzi...Mel Gibson was in it too? I can't imagine why they put Gibson in a Downy flick.

Yeah he was, and what a unmemorable film it was, too.

Yeah he was, and what a unmemorable film it was, too.
I liked it. Many's the miserable winter's afternoon that film kept me amused as a teenager. OK, admittedly it wasn't exactly Oscar material & there wasn't actually that much to do of a weekend in the little country town (well, settlement, really) where I grew up, but still... :(

[sulks]