NationStates Jolt Archive

My opinion: Ron Paul.

'Nuff said!

Nelson Mandella

Ian Douglas Smith

Ian Douglas Smith

Iain Duncan Smith Shurely?

And I'd nominate Sir Anthony Wedgewood Benn. The greatest left-wing thinker since Aneurin Bevan.

Ian Douglas Smith

It always sickens me how the Carter Administration betrayed Smith, who was one of our staunchest and most strongly anticommunist allies. And who replaced Smith? Robert Mugabe, mass murderer, all-around tyrant.

Johnny Isakson

Jello Biafra. While not exactly a politician, he did run for Mayor of San Francisco, and was nominated by the Green Party for President in 2000 (lost to Nader in the primaries.)

Iain Duncan Smith Shurely?

And I'd nominate Sir Anthony Wedgewood Benn. The greatest left-wing thinker since Aneurin Bevan.

Ian Douglass (with two s's) Smith was a Rhodesian prime minister, and an anticommunist, pro-US politician who the Carter Administration betrayed to the Reds in 1979.

Nelson Mandella

The murderer, Nelson Mandela?

Ian Douglass (with two s's) Smith was a Rhodesian prime minister, and an anticommunist, pro-US politician who the Carter Administration betrayed to the Reds in 1979.


http://www.rhodesian.net/Ian%20Douglas%20Smith.htm


Just 1 "s"

Joe Clark.

Pieter Willem Botha

The murderer, Nelson Mandela?
Just because he's a murderer doesn't make him a bad politician.

http://www.rhodesian.net/Ian%20Douglas%20Smith.htm


Just 1 "s"

Okay, thanks. But didn't he retire in 1988?

Troy Garron

Pieter Willem Botha

I said 'living' politician. Botha died years ago.

Tony Benn (if only because he seems to be the only British parliamentarian that recognises the anarchist tradition as a valid political force and field of beliefs).

http://www.rhodesian.net/Ian%20Douglas%20Smith.htm


Just 1 "s"

Was he really a 'white supremacist' or is that just more liberal hogwash?

I said 'living' politician. Botha died years ago.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Willem_Botha


Botha is still alive. So I think he can pick him as his choice.

Was he really a 'white supremacist' or is that just more liberal hogwash?

bump

Okay, thanks. But didn't he retire in 1988?


He may have retired from politics, but he stopped being the PM in 1979 was it? Or was it 1980, well I'm still reading his book "The Great Betrayal" so I'll get back to you on that.

Was he really a 'white supremacist' or is that just more liberal hogwash?


I think he believes in the superiority of the white race, but he didn't believe in taking it to a level of harming non-whites. He claimed to have more black friends than Mugabe. He also had a policy of "My door is always open" and he allowed and peasants to come talk to him. He recently ended that policy when his farm was seized and he was told "Don't come back." Since he now has no door to keep open.

A few years ago he offered to Mugabe for them to walk hand and hand down the worst section of Harare and see which one came out alive, Mugabe declined (Because most blacks hate him, only ZANU likes him)


Smith is a very interesting man. Definitely worth reading his book.

Smith was only a white supremacist in that the murderous communist bandits he did not want to hand Rhodesia over to happened to be black.

He may have retired from politics, but he stopped being the PM in 1979 was it? Or was it 1980, well I'm still reading his book "The Great Betrayal" so I'll get back to you on that.

Really? What's it about? I'd like to read it. Does it mention Johnson through Carter in there? (What's really stupid is that Johnson imposed sanctions on Rhodesia, even though Smith was a staunch US ally and even offered to send troops to help us in Vietnam)

Terror in Rhodesia
http://www.africancrisis.org/photos8.asp


Robert Mugabe, the racist marxist
http://www.africancrisis.org/photos3.asp


When Terrorists win and rule a country.
http://www.africancrisis.org/photos4.asp




What really gets me mad is that the UK actually armed Mugabe and his faction against the whites. South Africa found this out and told Smith about it, read it in Smith's book , "The Great Betrayal"

Also Canada allowed Mugabe to stay in exile there and command his terror campaign from there.

Also the vatican kept telling the public, "White missonaries are safe in rhodesia, the blacks are not killing them as the rhodesian government claims."

I think over 100 white missonaries and nuns were killed in rural hospitals that were mainly serving poor blacks.

The communists were ruthless in their takeover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Willem_Botha


Botha is still alive. So I think he can pick him as his choice.

Oh, sorry! I thought Botha died years ago. Must've had him mixed up with someone else.

Really? What's it about? I'd like to read it. Does it mention Johnson through Carter in there? (What's really stupid is that Johnson imposed sanctions on Rhodesia, even though Smith was a staunch US ally and even offered to send troops to help us in Vietnam)


It mentions a great deal about US politicians. And other politicians.

After reading about 1/2 the book, I'm left with a burning hatred for Harold Wilson.

Oh, sorry! I thought Botha died years ago. Must've had him mixed up with someone else.

You were probably thinking of Vorster.

You were probably thinking of Vorster.

Probably. Btw, when was Smith's book published?

Probably. Btw, when was Smith's book published?

1997

He also wrote another book "Bitter Harvest" but I have yet to get it.

http://www.rhodesiawassuper.com/





What happened with Rhodesia was at that particular time in world events, the entire white world was in the guilt stage, we had been bashed and beaten for what were called "centuries of white oppression" so nobody would standup against the communists because they were black. Had it happened 30 years earlier it might have been different.


Had Salazar lived 10 more years, or had Verwoerd not been assassinated, Rhodesia might still be with us. For only Portugal and South Africa did anything to help Rhodesia.

http://www.rhodesiawassuper.com/





What happened with Rhodesia was at that particular time in world events, the entire white world was in the guilt stage, we had been bashed and beaten for what were called "centuries of white oppression" so nobody would standup against the communists because they were black. Had it happened 30 years earlier it might have been different.


Had Salazar lived 10 more years, or had Verwoerd not been assassinated, Rhodesia might still be with us. For only Portugal and South Africa did anything to help Rhodesia.

Who's Salazar? The name sounds familiar.

The U.S. didn't help Rhodesia because Ian Smith was an anticommunist.

By the way, where can I find Smith's books?

Who's Salazar? The name sounds familiar.

The U.S. didn't help Rhodesia because Ian Smith was an anticommunist.

By the way, where can I find Smith's books?

Antonio de Oliveira Salazar



The book is at.

http://www.rhodesiawassuper.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=289


I still fly the Rhodesian flag. Show your support for Rhodesia, fly the Rhodesian flag. :)

Antonio de Oliveira Salazar



The book is at.

http://www.rhodesiawassuper.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=289


I still fly the Rhodesian flag. Show your support for Rhodesia, fly the Rhodesian flag. :)

Salazar, of course! The Portuguese PM...thanks for refreshing my memory!

And thanks for telling me about the book and where I can find it.

By the way, is there a place where you can see pics of the Rhodesian flag?

Salazar, of course! The Portuguese PM...thanks for refreshing my memory!

And thanks for telling me about the book and where I can find it.

By the way, is there a place where you can see pics of the Rhodesian flag?

http://www.rhodesian.net/rhodesian_flag.htm



I have also been known to occasionally fly the flag of
Repubblica Sociale Italiana

http://www.rhodesian.net/rhodesian_flag.htm



I have also been known to occasionally fly the flag of
Repubblica Sociale Italiana

http://www.fotw.net/flags/it-isr.html

Thanks! :)

Jello Biafra. While not exactly a politician, he did run for Mayor of San Francisco, and was nominated by the Green Party for President in 2000 (lost to Nader in the primaries.)
Second

The fact that just about anyone I have ever talked to that has met Jello Biafra describes him as a self-centred, self-important egotist with little thought for the feelings or desires of others prevents me from sharing some of the other posters' glowing enthusiasm for the man.

Bill Clinton.

That has to be Sir Hubstrank Cuffbert III our celestial ruler and all time stuper hero and fine egg. In Cuffbert all parties (even parties of the third part and ones going on until (gosh) 8 PM) have their expression. He holds the record for 600 simultaneous polos.

Peter MacKay

Pronsias de Rossa, an Irish Labour Party politician. He is currently in the European Parliament.

the pope. because he has everyone convinced that he's not political at all.

I don't know enough politicians to form an opinion. I'm still waiting for Fat Smelly Bastards to say, "George Bush, bro. Seriously, he's the greatest."

I don't know enough politicians to form an opinion. I'm still waiting for Fat Smelly Bastards to say, "George Bush, bro. Seriously, he's the greatest."

Lol! :) Personally, though, I think it's a relief he hasn't posted lately.

Is there really a poster called Fat Smelly Bastards???







:confused:

Is there really a poster called Fat Smelly Bastards???







:confused:
Yes, there is, much to many people's dismay.


Jello Biafra

Thirded. (Now that isn't a word)

Yes, there is, much to many people's dismay.

What's so bad about him? :confused:

What's so bad about him? :confused:
Insults, poor spelling, god awful grammer even by the standards of this board, and insults. Bad insults.

Insults, poor spelling, god awful grammer even by the standards of this board, and insults. Bad insults.

Ah speek for yoursefl you Brenda Song wannabe.

Ah speek for yoursefl you Brenda Song wannabe.
Speak of the devil, thats the third time today that he has come back after promising never to come back again.

I'm a guy, and not scared of you at all, and if you lay a finger on me, you'll spend quite a bit of time in jail.

I'd say Margaret Thatcher or Mikail Gorbachev.

Speak of the devil, thats the third time today that he has come back after promising never to come back again.

I'm a guy, and not scared of you at all, and if you lay a finger on me, you'll spend quite a bit of time in jail.

Bro I wouldnt touch ya if ya PAYED me too. :rolleyes:

Bro I wouldnt touch ya if ya PAYED me too. :rolleyes:
So not beating me up now?

Classic example of Mr. FSB in action:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6693002&posted=1#post6693002

Ah speek for yoursefl you Brenda Song wannabe.

You, my friend, make no sense. Who's "Brenda Song?"

You, my friend, make no sense. Who's "Brenda Song?"
He's already ran away and said that he is never coming back. Yeah. Expect to see him in an hour.

I don't know enough politicians to form an opinion. I'm still waiting for Fat Smelly Bastards to say, "George Bush, bro. Seriously, he's the greatest."
Still waitin', FSB.

I'm a guy, and not scared of you at all, and if you lay a finger on me, you'll spend quite a bit of time in jail.
If he layed a finger on me, he'd spend quite a bit of time in a hospital.

It always sickens me how the Carter Administration betrayed Smith, who was one of our staunchest and most strongly anticommunist allies. And who replaced Smith? Robert Mugabe, mass murderer, all-around tyrant. Smith was a racist and supporter of apartheid. Not exactly a nice guy either.

I guess you supported apartheid South Africa aswell?

Mikhail Gorbachev. Agreed.

I still don't understand why Gorbachev is despised in Russia. Yeltsin was to blame for the problems of post-Soviet Russia, not Gorbachev.

Smith was a racist and supporter of apartheid. Not exactly a nice guy either.

I guess you supported apartheid South Africa aswell?

I never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth. All I said was he was an ally and Carter betrayed him.

Agreed.

I still don't understand why Gorbachev is despised in Russia. Yeltsin was to blame for the problems of post-Soviet Russia, not Gorbachev.

Gorbachev was a monster and a killer. See one of my posts in another thread for details.

It always sickens me how the Carter Administration betrayed Smith, who was one of our staunchest and most strongly anticommunist allies. And who replaced Smith? Robert Mugabe, mass murderer, all-around tyrant.

So we should have kept a colonial ruler then? Zimbabwe is for the blacks, I cant understand why people can't accept this. Land redistribution is a good thing as the white 'rightful owners of the land' as they are sometimes referred to, as they are not Zimbabwians, but merely settlers who stole the land when they arrived - forcing blacks to work in plantations. Lets take the agriculture Industry in America - What if British Colonists were still running the farms there, and effectively driving up prices because they all had a mutual interest in sticking together?

As for my favourite politician - Its got to be Tony Benn - I've met him several times and he is one of the greatest Liberals ever to walk the Earth.

Gorbachev was a monster and a killer. See one of my posts in another thread for details. That is your opinion, not fact.

I could post details about any political figure that would portray them in a negative light. However, it doesn't mean that is an accurate representation of that person. You believe want you want to believe.

The fact is, Gorbachev introduced reform and democracy to an oppressive system and ended the Cold War.

I guess none of this matters to you since all socialists are considered to be 'evil' in your opinion. That is of course is really rich coming from a person who admires racist dictators.

Agreed.

I still don't understand why Gorbachev is despised in Russia. Yeltsin was to blame for the problems of post-Soviet Russia, not Gorbachev.

Very, very true. Yeltsin was a monster - he privitized everything in site and within a matter of weeks you had people who had become millionaires. Now look at Russia, the average standard of living is still appalling (apart from those who stole the Government Industries from the people), the environment is a mess and fraud is everywhere.

Yeltsin is widely responsible for a fast growing Communist movement in Russia. Though the Americans love him because he represents everything they stand for (Greed, Lack of morals and love of nothing but money).

The fact is, Gorbachev introduced reform and democracy to an oppressive system and ended the Cold War.


No!
Don't you get it!?

The story of the End of the Cold War goes: Reagan called the Soviet Union the evil empire and they realised they were and decided to disband.

No!
Don't you get it!?

The story of the End of the Cold War goes: Reagan called the Soviet Union the evil empire and they realised they were and decided to disband. The sad truth is that some people actually believe that.

Hehe, whoever said propoganda still isn't around in this day and age? :)

Greatest? Depends on what you mean by that.

I'll say this--for pure campaigning and politicking skill, nobody comes close to Bill Clinton. Whether he's the most capable administrator or the most pure of ideology is another story here. For pure political skill, though, nobody alive comes remotely close to him.

That is your opinion, not fact.

I could post details about any political figure that would portray them in a negative light. However, it doesn't mean that is an accurate representation of that person. You believe want you want to believe.

The fact is, Gorbachev introduced reform and democracy to an oppressive system and ended the Cold War.

I guess none of this matters to you since all socialists are considered to be 'evil' in your opinion. That is of course is really rich coming from a person who admires racist dictators.

When did I say I admired Ian Smith? Did I say Carter betrayed him? Yes. Did I say I supported Smith, agreed with him, or admired him? No.

What about the 500,000+ Afghanis the Gorbachev regime murdered? What about the fact that his 'reforms' were as phony as a three dollar bill? What about the tens of thousands who continued to rot in slave labor camps? Perestroika and glasnost were not reforms, but were simply following Lenin's advice of "one step backward, two steps forward." Read 'New Lies For Old' and 'The Perestroika Deception' for more details.

Also, please apologize for insulting me. I found your comment deeply offensive.

Though the Americans love him because he represents everything they stand for (Greed, Lack of morals and love of nothing but money).

Keep your racist comments to yourself.

Very, very true. Yeltsin was a monster - he privitized everything in site and within a matter of weeks you had people who had become millionaires. Now look at Russia, the average standard of living is still appalling (apart from those who stole the Government Industries from the people), the environment is a mess and fraud is everywhere.

Yeltsin is widely responsible for a fast growing Communist movement in Russia. Though the Americans love him because he represents everything they stand for (Greed, Lack of morals and love of nothing but money).

Thank God not all Germans are like you and Gigatron.

The worse a national leader is, the more we hear about them.

Odds on, the Greatest Living Politician is quietly running his country, preventing the disasters, riots and wars that get a nation into the news: with the result none of us have ever heard of him - and maybe not of his country either. Probably even the people in his own nation won't realise what they've lost until after he's been replaced by a few crackpots, at which point they'll probably canonise the man.

The worse a national leader is, the more we hear about them.

Odds on, the Greatest Living Politician is quietly running his country, preventing the disasters, riots and wars that get a nation into the news: with the result none of us have ever heard of him - and maybe not of his country either. Probably even the people in his own nation won't realise what they've lost until after he's been replaced by a few crackpots, at which point they'll probably canonise the man.
Sounds a little like James Monroe. He's dead now of course, but he filled that description quite nicely.

George W. Bush.

The worse a national leader is, the more we hear about them.

Odds on, the Greatest Living Politician is quietly running his country, preventing the disasters, riots and wars that get a nation into the news: with the result none of us have ever heard of him - and maybe not of his country either. Probably even the people in his own nation won't realise what they've lost until after he's been replaced by a few crackpots, at which point they'll probably canonise the man.

To whom are you referring?

Thank God not all Germans are like you and Gigatron.
I'm not German (though I do have great respect for them) - I am Greek Cypriot and my family have suffered as a direct result of American Interference. The invasion of Turkey - funded and armed by the US - cost the lives of 1000's of innocent Greek Cypriots - there were even reports from the UNHCR of Turkish troops killing pregnant women and then slashing the womb so as to make sure the baby was dead. A lot of innocents died - Among them was my Uncle. So think before you speak, because you Americans and your Wars aren't as based around as many 'humanitarian' reasons as you would like to believe.

I'm not German (though I do have great respect for them) - I am Greek Cypriot and my family have suffered as a direct result of American Interference. The invasion of Turkey - funded and armed by the US - cost the lives of 1000's of innocent Greek Cypriots - there were even reports from the UNHCR of Turkish troops killing pregnant women and then slashing the womb so as to make sure the baby was dead. A lot of innocents died - Among them was my Uncle. So think before you speak, because you Americans and your Wars aren't as based around as many 'humanitarian' reasons as you would like to believe.

Sorry. I never said our wars were based around humanitarian reasons. I'm deeply sorry about your uncle. But I was offended by what you said (you know, about Americans and greed, love of nothing but money, etc.).

bump

Very, very true. Yeltsin was a monster - he privitized everything in site and within a matter of weeks you had people who had become millionaires. Now look at Russia, the average standard of living is still appalling (apart from those who stole the Government Industries from the people), the environment is a mess and fraud is everywhere.

Yeltsin is widely responsible for a fast growing Communist movement in Russia. Though the Americans love him because he represents everything they stand for (Greed, Lack of morals and love of nothing but money). Yeltsin was a confused man. On one hand, he undermined the Soviet government in order to make himself more powerful. However, he wanted to retain the Soviet empire and superpower status. During the 1990s, Yeltsin's government was desperate to hold onto remnants of its past empire. Yeltsin's policies of interference in the other former Soviet republics fuelled wars in Georgia, Moldova, Armenia and Azerbajian. Yeltsin even threatened to use nukes against Turkey on one occassion.

Still waiting for that apology, Drabikstan.

What about the 500,000+ Afghanis the Gorbachev regime murdered?

Oh I am SO glad you brought this up!

Ever heard of Brzezinski? The adviser to Carter? Remember how he so proudly claimed that he and the defense department had armed the Mujahedeen 6 Months before the start of the War, so as to invoke an uprising that would lure the Russians in, who did not know that the US had armed them well with thier own equipment.

Lets here a little quote by Mr. Brzezinski.
When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

"Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war we had planned for."

When talking about whether they had known the Soviets were going to invade based on the arming of rebels opposing the Government, and that the arming of them was a reason for this. He responded:
"we knowingly increased the probability that they would."

The US planned, instigated and executed the Afghanistan Trap - In an effort to give Russia 'thier Vietnam'. For a simple act of revenge and to give leverage to The USA's attempts to unite countries against Russia. It was done. But what was the cost?

- 1 Million Afghans died.
- 20,000 Russians died.
- 4 Million Afghans were made homeless.

>>The Holy Palatinate wrote:
>> with the result none of us have ever heard of him

>Roach-Busters wrote:
>To whom are you referring?
If I've never heard of him, I can't know his name now, can I?


However, I can think of a name to add to the list: King Michael of Rumania. The kid kicked out the Nazis as a 16th birthday present to himself, and then stalled the Soviets for two years before finally being exiled. Maybe someone should suggest re-installing him to GWB - the Rumanians would probably forgive him the bombing, in return for getting a decent leader back!

Sorry. I never said our wars were based around humanitarian reasons. I'm deeply sorry about your uncle. But I was offended by what you said (you know, about Americans and greed, love of nothing but money, etc.).

I understand, and I am sorry in that case if you were offended. But I understand that not all Americans are the same as well - alot viermontly oppose some of the disugsting policies that this administration has performed. And I pay them credit for that.

Oh I am SO glad you brought this up!

Ever heard of Brzezinski? The adviser to Carter? Remember how he so proudly claimed that he and the defense department had armed the Mujahedeen 6 Months before the start of the War, so as to invoke an uprising that would lure the Russians in, who did not know that the US had armed them well with thier own equipment.

Lets here a little quote by Mr. Brzezinski.
When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

"Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war we had planned for."

When talking about whether they had known the Soviets were going to invade based on the arming of rebels opposing the Government, and that the arming of them was a reason for this. He responded:
"we knowingly increased the probability that they would."

The US planned, instigated and executed the Afghanistan Trap - In an effort to give Russia 'thier Vietnam'. For a simple act of revenge and to give leverage to The USA's attempts to unite countries against Russia. It was done. But what was the cost?

- 1 Million Afghans died.
- 20,000 Russians died.
- 4 Million Afghans were made homeless.

Well, Brzezinski was a Marxist arch-traitor asshole. (And yes, he is a Marxist; read his 'Between Two Ages' and see for yourself)

Well, Brzezinski was a Marxist arch-traitor asshole. (And yes, he is a Marxist; read his 'Between Two Ages' and see for yourself)
I will, can I pick it up at Amazon?

I understand, and I am sorry in that case if you were offended. But I understand that not all Americans are the same as well - alot viermontly oppose some of the disugsting policies that this administration has performed. And I pay them credit for that.

Dude, it's cool. Apology more than accepted. I can understand your feelings; our President isn't exactly making a good name for the US right now.

I will, can I pick it up at Amazon?

Yes.

When did I say I admired Ian Smith? Did I say Carter betrayed him? Yes. Did I say I supported Smith, agreed with him, or admired him? No.

Perestroika and glasnost were not reforms, but were simply following Lenin's advice of "one step backward, two steps forward." Read 'New Lies For Old' and 'The Perestroika Deception' for more details. So the world simply imagined democratic elections being held by Gorbachev's government? The world simply imagined Soviet forces withdrawing from Eastern Europe and Afghanistan? Gorbachev was not the one who proposed arms reduction treaties that Reagan at first refused to sign? Gorbachev's introduction of freedom of speech never really happened? Please, these are historical facts. Just because allegations and statements appear in a book does not mean they are accurate.

You're the same person who labelled Allende 'evil' while forgetting to mention that mass murderer Pinochet. I respect your opinion (and I totally agree with you about Kissinger and Nixon being war criminals etc.) but your extreme bias undermines your credibility.

So the world simply imagined democratic elections being held by Gorbachev's government? The world simply imagined Soviet forces withdrawing from Eastern Europe and Afghanistan? Gorbachev was not the one who proposed arms reduction treaties that Reagan at first refused to sign? Gorbachev's introduction of freedom of speech never really happened? Please, these are historical facts. Just because allegations and statements appear in a book does not mean they are accurate.

You're the same person who labelled Allende 'evil' while forgetting to mention that mass murderer Pinochet. I respect your opinion (and I totally agree with you about Kissinger and Nixon being war criminals etc.) but your extreme bias undermines your credibility.

When did Gorbachev's government hold elections? Also, as for the withdrawal, like I said, it's typical communist strategy, like the NEP. And of course he proposed arms reduction treaties, because their goal always has been to disarm us. How much freedom of speech did he introduce?

As for Pinochet, did he actually order the alleged 3,000 killings, tortures, etc. that are supposed to have happened? I didn't mention Pinochet because, whatever his faults, he overthrew a rampantly corrupt, fiscally insane, lawless government that was leading the country toward total ruin. There are a few other suspicious things about Pinochet. Why does the left spend so much of its time trying to vilify, discredit, demonize, and destroy this one man, while ignoring murderers like Yasser Arafat, Nelson Mandela, Hun Sen, Fidel Castro, etc.? If nothing else, it's something to think about. And thanks for respecting my beliefs, I fully respect yours as well. And, yeah, you are right about my 'extreme bias.'

When did Gorbachev's government hold elections? Also, as for the withdrawal, like I said, it's typical communist strategy, like the NEP. And of course he proposed arms reduction treaties, because their goal always has been to disarm us. How much freedom of speech did he introduce?

As for Pinochet, did he actually order the alleged 3,000 killings, tortures, etc. that are supposed to have happened? I didn't mention Pinochet because, whatever his faults, he overthrew a rampantly corrupt, fiscally insane, lawless government that was leading the country toward total ruin. There are a few other suspicious things about Pinochet. Why does the left spend so much of its time trying to vilify, discredit, demonize, and destroy this one man, while ignoring murderers like Yasser Arafat, Nelson Mandela, Hun Sen, Fidel Castro, etc.? If nothing else, it's something to think about. And thanks for respecting my beliefs, I fully respect yours as well. And, yeah, you are right about my 'extreme bias.'

Sorry, I don't post much here (just joined) but I think...

Basically, the regimes you mention are all heinous, no doubt. The thing that grates is that it's ok for a so called democratic regime to do what it feels like (my disdain comes from the fact that pretty much the only democratic country I can think of is Ireland), and it's fine. As soon as a government is seen as being socialist, or even communist, the whole world is ready to cast blame upon the leaders for being almost sub-human.

From my point of view, a marxist state is much more 'fair' than any capatalist state, if you remove the wasters from society (sorry for being non-PC). Any government you care to name in the world has blood on its hands in one way or another (ignoring scale here for a philosophical point) and the more left wing regimes seem to be more vilified or it.

Just my thoughts so feel free to flame away......

When did Gorbachev's government hold elections? Also, as for the withdrawal, like I said, it's typical communist strategy, like the NEP. And of course he proposed arms reduction treaties, because their goal always has been to disarm us. How much freedom of speech did he introduce? I really don't have the time and resources to give you a full history lesson about the Gorbachev era.

1985

March 11: Mikhail Sergeyevick Gorbachev named general secretary of the Communist party of the Soviet Union.
April 8: Gorbachev backs Andropov's economic reforms and emphasizes giving enterprises more independence.
September 30: At arms-control talks in Geneva the Soviet Union proposes cuts that would eliminate half of the Soviet and U.S. offensive nuclear weapons.
November 18-21: Gorbachev and Reagan meet in Geneva and hit it off, tentatively scheduling additional summits.
December 24: Boris Yeltsin named secretary of the Moscow City party Committee.

1986

February 8: Gorbachev denounces Stalinism in a French Communist newspaper.
February 25: At the 27th Party Congress in Moscow, Gorbachev delivers a five hour speech calling for massive economic reform - Perestroika.
December 16: Sakharov invited back to Moscow after six years of exile.

1987

January 26: Gorbachev introduces, his ideas for political reform, including the introduction of multicandidate elections and the promotion of non-Party members to senior government posts - Glasnost.
January: at the end of the month, the anti-Stalin film Repentance is released for public showing.
June 11: The Politburo announces that all state enterprises are to become self-financing by the end of the decade.
July 22: Gorbachev announces that the U.S.S.R. is ready to accept the elimination of all medium-range nuclear missiles.
December 6: The Moscow News publishes an anti-Stalin interview with the widow of Nikolai Bukharin.

1988

February 8: Gorbachev proposes to withdraw all Soviet troops from Afghanistan.
June 10: History exams canceled in secondary schools pending rewriting of history texts.
June 28: Gorbachev proposes a presidential system for the Soviet Union and a new democratic parliament, to be called the Congress of People's Deputies.
December 7: Speaking at the United nations, Gorbachev announces a massive reduction in the Soviet military.

1989

March 26: Nationwide elections are held for the Congress of People's Deputies. Several party officials are defeated and Boris Yeltsin wins 90% of the vote in Moscow.
May 18: Lithuania and Latvia declare their sovereignty.
June 12: Gorbachev travels to West Germany and states, about the Berlin Wall, "nothing is eternal..."
November 9: The Berlin Wall is opened.
November 27: Supreme Soviet adopts a draft law on the press that bans censorship of the media.
December 10: A new, non-Communist-majority government is installed in Prague.

1990

January 11: Armenia declares that it has the right to veto Soviet laws, the first step taken by the Caucasus republics towards independence.
February 5: Gorbachev proposes a multiparty system.
February-March: Elections to local soviets are held throughout the country, and opposition candidates record several victories.
March 11: Lithuania declares itself independent.
May 29: Boris Yeltsin is elected as the President of the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic.
July 2: Heated exchanges between Gorbachev and Yeltsin at the 28th Communist Party Congress. Yeltsin resigns from the Communist party.
September 24: The Supreme Soviet grants Gorbachev new powers to rule by decree during the transition period to a market economy.
September 26: The Supreme Soviet adopts a new law that ends state control of religion.
October 3: East and West Germany are reunited.
November 17: Supreme Soviet approves Gorbachev's proposal to reorganize the government so that it includes the leaders of all fifteen republics.
December 24: Gorbachev uses his new powers to try to quell dissident nationalists for the first time.

1991

January 13: Soviet Army troops attack and seize the main Lithuanian television station.
January 16: Gorbachev proposes that the law guaranteeing the freedom of the press be suspended - he eventually withdraws the proposal.
February 9: Lithuanians vote overwhelmingly for independence.
February 19: Yeltsin publicly calls on Gorbachev to resign.
March 3: Voters in Estonia and Latvia vote overwhelmingly for independence.
March 28: A pro-Yeltsin rally attracts 100000 people in Moscow.
March 31: The Warsaw Pact is officially dissolved.
April 1: Georgian voters vote 99% in favour of independence.
April 2: Prices of consumer goods increase dramatically.
April 23: Gorbachev signs the "nine-plus-one" agreement calling for greater republican autonomy.
June 12: Boris Yeltsin elected President of Russia.
August 19: Coup attempt. Yeltsin stands atop a tank to denounce the coup attempt.
August 21: The coup crumbles.
August 24: Gorbachev resigns as general secretary of the Party.
August 25-August 31: Six other republics declare their independence.
September 4: Gorbachev recognizes the independence of the Baltic states.
December 8: Yeltsin agrees to form the Commonwealth of Independent States, Gorbachev announces that he will resign if the Union is destroyed.
December 21: Eleven former republics, all except Georgia and the Baltic states, formally agree to the Commonwealth.
December 25: Gorbachev resigns as President of the U.S.S.R.


As for Pinochet, did he actually order the alleged 3,000 killings, tortures, etc. that are supposed to have happened? I didn't mention Pinochet because, whatever his faults, he overthrew a rampantly corrupt, fiscally insane, lawless government that was leading the country toward total ruin. There are a few other suspicious things about Pinochet. Why does the left spend so much of its time trying to vilify, discredit, demonize, and destroy this one man, while ignoring murderers like Yasser Arafat, Nelson Mandela, Hun Sen, Fidel Castro, etc.? If nothing else, it's something to think about. And thanks for respecting my beliefs, I fully respect yours as well. And, yeah, you are right about my 'extreme bias.' Well, did Yasser Arafat, Nelson Mandela or Fidel Castro actually order the 'alleged' killings, tortures etc. that are supposed to have happened?

I was simply making a comment about your hypocrisy regarding Allende in contrast to Pinochet. Allende's main fault is that he upset American companies operating in Chile when he nationalized several major industries. This, combined with his socialist beliefs and friendship with Fidel Castro, caused the US to help overthrow Allende's democratic government and replace it with a military dictatorship.

Zimbabwe is for the blacks, I cant understand why people can't accept this..


Europe is for whites, I can't understand why people can't accept this.

Move all the whites out of Africa and back to Europe, and move all the non-whites out of Europe and back to wherever they're from. How does that sound?

I guess you supported apartheid South Africa aswell?


No I support current South Africa where the nation has fallen apart, they're starting to import food now because so many white farmers fled due to the farm attacks (1,700 dead white farmers and 25,000 assaulted out of 40,000 white farmers total)

I support the current South Africa, with more blacks and white in jail than under Apartheid rule. But the jails are bursting at the seams.


The current South Africa where crime is so common they just stop recording it, 300,000 reported rapes per year. The highest murder rate in the world.


I would support a sane South Africa.

They traded Apartheid for Communism. Just because you don't like what you have, don't pick the first thing that comes along, shop around a little.

Europe is for whites Define white.

They traded Apartheid for Communism. LMAO.....South Africa is communist now?

I thought the current government was actually right-wing nationalist.

Define white.


Native Europeans!

LMAO.....South Africa is communist now?

I thought the current government was actually right-wing nationalist.


http://www.anc.org.za/


The official SA gov't site. It has the link to the South African Communist Party on it, the party platform is communist.

Native Europeans! Ahh but not all Europeans are strictly white e.g. Mediterranean Europeans.

Ahh but not all Europeans are strictly white e.g. Mediterranean Europeans.

That's just a dirty rotten lie designed to "Divide and conquer" the white race.


Greeks, Italians, Southern French, Spanish, and Portuguese are some of the finest white people around.



You're obviously very confused or you're trying to drive a wedge between white people.

Portuguese: http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKdbTQ9Bws4AaQ9vCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvMmFkM29rBHBndANhdl9pbWdfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=11pcvn3mp/**http%3a//www.portugal.sk/kultura/historia/Salazar.html


Spanish: http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyJ12TQ9BVzYB8gZvCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvMmFkM29rBHBndANhdl9pbWdfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=131m4ltuk/**http%3a//hist.academic.claremontmckenna.edu/jpetropoulos/church/rachelpage/FranciscoFranco.htm

That's just a dirty rotten lie designed to "Divide and conquer" the white race.


Greeks, Italians, Southern French, Spanish, and Portuguese are some of the finest white people around. What about other groups such as Armenians, Georgians, Chechens or even Jews? Where do they fit into your racial profile?


You're obviously very confused or you're trying to drive a wedge between white people. Neither. I just don't see the need to create rigid racial barriers especially when they are sometimes blurred.

What about other groups such as Armenians, Georgians, Chechens or even Jews? Where do they fit into your racial profile?


Neither. I just don't see the need to create rigid racial barriers especially when they are sometimes blurred.


Aremenians and Georgians are mostly whites. The chechens have converted to Islam and adopted non-white culture, so they no longer need be considered or treated white. They've made it their goal to betray Russia, and as such, they can be dealt with as one deals with a troublesome insect or coyote that is killing your cattle.

Also jews are the semitic race, not white.

ok, ok...

some clarification please.

now, do you want my opinion on who's the Greatest politician alive based on
*what he/she stands for
or
*what he/she have accomplished (or helped avert).
or
*for doing all the things he/she did/do and getting away with it?
?

The worse a national leader is, the more we hear about them.

Odds on, the Greatest Living Politician is quietly running his country, preventing the disasters, riots and wars that get a nation into the news: with the result none of us have ever heard of him - and maybe not of his country either. Probably even the people in his own nation won't realise what they've lost until after he's been replaced by a few crackpots, at which point they'll probably canonise the man.

ill vote for that :)

Bosso!

Otto Guevara. Head of Movimiento Libertario, a Costa Rican party based upon libertarian principles, he first won a congressional seat in 1998. He has introduced more law bills than any other congressman and has been rated as the best congressman by the people and the news media. The party won 10% of the congressional seats in 2002. Guevara is hoping that the party will win 50% of the congressional seats in 2006.

http://www.libertario.org/en/

Jimmy Carter.

His Presidency gets a bad rap, and its undeserved.
He was hampered by a Republican controlled Congress, and Senate, that voted everything he proposed down.
He really wasnt given a fair shake.

But his greatest accomplishments came after his term in office.
His many, many charitable works.
His diplomacy skills constantly utilized by the US, and the U.N alike to avoid wars, sign treaties, and ensure democratic elections, are what makes him great.

How many leaders do you know that have won Nobel Peace Prizes?

Jimmy Carter is the unsung hero of Democracy, all over the world.
There are other nations that owe their democracy and freedoms to Jimmy Carter.

He just may be the last of the Truly Great Men.

I'd have to go with Jimmy Carter as well. He taught the republicans that democrats are warriors too.

The chechens have converted to Islam and adopted non-white culture, so they no longer need be considered or treated white. They've made it their goal to betray Russia, and as such, they can be dealt with as one deals with a troublesome insect or coyote that is killing your cattle. That is a very odd and disturbing comment.

Nelson Mandella

Yes!

That is a very odd and disturbing comment.


Хорошо, почему не делают Вы говорите чеченцам останавливать их кампанию ужаса(террора ) против России!


Чеченцы - террористическая свинья, кто нападает на невинных российских гражданских жителей. Потребность России не показывает никакого милосердия Чечне.

Bill Clinton.

I'll agree with this, for all his faults, the man was a natural born politician. No one can give a speech like Bill Clinton. He may suck as a person, but as a politician he is second to none!

I should also mention Jimmy Carter, while he sort of sucked as a president, he has more then made up for it over the years with his selfless work around the world solving conflicts and his sheer talent for diplomacy. I know he gets' a hard time about the Iran hostage thing, but one has to ask, could any president of really done any different? I guess we shall never know.

Хорошо, почему не делают Вы говорите чеченцам останавливать их кампанию ужаса(террора ) против России!


Чеченцы - террористическая свинья, кто нападает на невинных российских гражданских жителей. Потребность России не показывает никакого милосердия Чечне.
Who says we don't?

Who says we don't?


Пункт( Точка ) - чеченцы - свинья и их нападения против России, их казнь захваченных российских солдат, подразумевают, что чеченцы не заслуживают никакого милосердия от российской армии.

Пункт( Точка ) - чеченцы - свинья и их нападения против России, их казнь захваченных российских солдат, подразумевают, что чеченцы не заслуживают никакого милосердия от российской армии.

and the russian army is of course angels sitting on pink clouds playing harp?
could you atleast keep to english? or is there some reason you don't write in english?

Jimmy Carter.

His Presidency gets a bad rap, and its undeserved.
He was hampered by a Republican controlled Congress, and Senate, that voted everything he proposed down.
He really wasnt given a fair shake.

But his greatest accomplishments came after his term in office.
His many, many charitable works.
His diplomacy skills constantly utilized by the US, and the U.N alike to avoid wars, sign treaties, and ensure democratic elections, are what makes him great.

How many leaders do you know that have won Nobel Peace Prizes?

Jimmy Carter is the unsung hero of Democracy, all over the world.
There are other nations that owe their democracy and freedoms to Jimmy Carter.

He just may be the last of the Truly Great Men.


What was it that jimmy carter did that was wrong? oh i know! HE GAVE AWAY AMERICAN SOIL!!!!!! the panama canal was ours and he gave it to those crazy banana pickers! how many other presidents have given away american land? NONE! in my opinion he was the worst president ever and if he was a great polotician he would have wona second term. next time you wanna say something you should try using rational thought.

and the russian army is of course angels sitting on pink clouds playing harp?
could you atleast keep to english? or is there some reason you don't write in english?



Россия защищается против терроризма и isalmic агрессии против Ортодоксальной родины Европы. Россия борется с современным крестовым походом и нужно позволиться сделать так для большей славы Христа и российских людей.

Пункт( Точка ) - чеченцы - свинья и их нападения против России, их казнь захваченных российских солдат, подразумевают, что чеченцы не заслуживают никакого милосердия от российской армии.
Civilians sure as hell do.

Civilians sure as hell do.



Чеченцы не заслуживают ничто, ничто из России! Никакое милосердие для врага!

Россия защищается против терроризма и isalmic агрессии против Ортодоксальной родины Европы. Россия борется с современным крестовым походом и нужно позволиться сделать так для большей славы Христа и российских людей.

english!
i've heard that argument before. and im torn about that way of seeing it. mostly becuase i live in a land that have been at peace for 200 years straight now... (not many can beat that i belive... but that's beside the point.. :rolleyes: ) that gives me another point of view, specially compaired to people who's own country are in their own eyes threatened (notice this is not in anyway connected to this specific conflict, but to armed conflicts in general) but atleast i know that :).

im am interested in hearing your opinions about it, but in english please. and i really hope that you don't think that islamic Chechens shouldn't be allowed inside russians Chechnia. (i don't have a opinion about whether or nor Chechnia is Russian, but you are free to convince me :).)

Чеченцы не заслуживают ничто, ничто из России! Никакое милосердие для врага!
Then let them make their own country then.

Then let them make their own country then.


What if white males in the USA want to make their own country in that pacific northwest region they are all gathered around in various militia camps such as Aryan Nations. Will you let white separatists make their own nation in the USA?

The USA used to be essentially an entirely white nation, but today whites in the USA have nothing, they're being beaten down by the media, their founding fathers are slandered.

To have Chechnya leave Russia would be like to have Idaho leave the USA.

Хорошо, почему не делают Вы говорите чеченцам останавливать их кампанию ужаса(террора ) против России!


Чеченцы - террористическая свинья, кто нападает на невинных российских гражданских жителей. Потребность России не показывает никакого милосердия Чечне. Не все Чеченцы - террористы.

Не все Чеченцы - террористы.


Но все чеченцы - свинья. Они - предатели России! И что делают большинство наций делает предателям? Нянчитесь с ними подобно младенцам? Нет! предатели висят!

[...]Though the Americans love him because he represents everything they stand for (Greed, Lack of morals and love of nothing but money).

I'm inclined to disagree with that, actually, and must voice that I find it quite troubling that that is how some would perceive the people of my country.



In any event, to respond to the original query:
In my opinion, the greatest living politician would have to be John McCain.

Чеченцы - граждане России. Не все Чеченцы равняются предателям.

Мы можем говорить по-английски теперь?

I'm inclined to disagree with that, actually, and must voice that I find it quite troubling that that is how some would perceive the people of my country.



In any event, to respond to the original query:
In my opinion, the greatest living politician would have to be John McCain. I still say Mikhail Gorbachev is the greatest living politician by far.

What if white males in the USA want to make their own country in that pacific northwest region they are all gathered around in various militia camps such as Aryan Nations. Will you let white separatists make their own nation in the USA?

The USA used to be essentially an entirely white nation, but today whites in the USA have nothing, they're being beaten down by the media, their founding fathers are slandered.

To have Chechnya leave Russia would be like to have Idaho leave the USA.
Well, if you ask me, let those fuckers leave. We're better off without them...

Чеченцы - граждане России. Не все Чеченцы равняются предателям.

Мы можем говорить по-английски теперь?



Чеченцы - свинья! Ничто не убедит меня иначе. Я не могу выдержать их, беря заложников, казнив храбрых солдат, пытаясь вынудить Русских оставлять Христа. Чеченцы не заслуживают никакого милосердия. Сгладьте Грозного!

Мы говорим по-русски!

Мы говорим по-русски!


WHY? because you don't want anyone to understand?

I still say Mikhail Gorbachev is the greatest living politician by far.


Питер Виллем Баса или Владимир Путин, они - самые большие живые политические деятели. Баса пробовала противостоять Организации Объединенных Наций, но он терпел неудачу. И Путин, он снижается трудно на "российской" ( еврейской ) Мафии, которая является plaguing Россией.

I still say Mikhail Gorbachev is the greatest living politician by far.

I think Gorbachev is up there, really. It is a difficult choice, to be quite honest. I mean, you have questionable politicians, and then there are the few that really stand out.

WHY? because you don't want anyone to understand?


Шикарный ( Сильный ) человек ( мужчина ) , очень хороший!

Шикарный ( Сильный ) человек ( мужчина ) , очень хороший!

for some reason i can't help but smiling...

Шикарный ( Сильный ) человек ( мужчина ) , очень хороший!
Nice. You don't stop and I'll start translating them...

Nice. You don't stop and I'll start translating them...


Так что Вы - чеченский любитель ( возлюбленный ) , Вы? Действительно ли Вы - предатель ваших собственных российских людей?

Так что Вы - чеченский любитель ( возлюбленный ) , Вы? Действительно ли Вы - предатель ваших собственных российских людей?
No, not really, I just don't like your views, and if a group of people wish to become a seperate state and a nation savagely puts them down, I think they are justified in fighting back.

No, not really, I just don't like your views, and if a group of people wish to become a seperate state and a nation savagely puts them down, I think they are justified in fighting back.


Чеченцы не имеют права разорвать Чечню далеко от Русских, которые законно имеют( признают ) это. Я сказал бы, что каждый последний Чеченец должен быть изгнан из Чечни. Они имеют arroganlty, поощрял щедрые российские предложения относительно мира. Теперь они должны заплатить!

CSW, you didn't answer me. Are you a traitor?

CSW, you didn't answer me. Are you a traitor?
You are entitled to your opinions. I think differently.

Way to hijack a topic.....

Way to hijack a topic.....


Что, Вы собираетесь начинать с чеченца, любящего теперь? Нянчитесь с террористами, именно это Вы хотите сделать! Я говорю, вешают террористов!

Что, Вы собираетесь начинать с чеченца, любящего теперь? Нянчитесь с террористами, именно это Вы хотите сделать! Я говорю, вешают террористов!
Oh lay off the chechnyan crap, you've hi-jacked this thead and you know it.

Mikhail Gorbachev

Senator John McCain

Dennis Skinner.