NationStates Jolt Archive

:rolleyes: who would make a better president?

i'd say Kerry... but i'm not quite sure.. :)

anyone else have an opinion? :confused:

:p bye then

Hrmm, well, I'll put my vote in for Kerry in this thread as well, though I'm pretty sure there are a few other threads devoted entirely to this subject. Pretty sure...

Kerry

Hrmm, well, I'll put my vote in for Kerry in this thread as well, though I'm pretty sure there are a few other threads devoted entirely to this subject. Pretty sure...

A few hundred I think. They should just make one sticky.

Kerry, hands down.

Yes ther are a bunch of overly long threads on this

Kerry! Kerry! Kerry! :) He's a much better person for the job. What has Bush done during his term? NADA! :mp5: :sniper: :headbang: :gundge: The man is a moron and IS NOT his father's shadow. :confused:

Bush will win in '04. It will be close. But in the end "War on Terror" & tax cuts will win the day.

How will this war benefit Bush? It started out with 9/11. The search for Saddam and Osama. OK yes, we found Saddam.... seems as though you hear nothing on the search for Osama... terrorism is the new big issue. The hostages, murders, etc. WHAT IS BUSH DOING THAT MAKES HIM SO GREAT? As I said in my last reply... the man is a moran. He needs to leave so the war on terror can be resolved.

Oh... and not to mention Bush's close-mindedness and prejustice. :(

*voting for Kerry*

God you people... If you're going to flame Bush, at least do it intelligently.

Bush!

Why vote for Kerry?? He is a commie. He marched in Moscow PRO COMMUNISM, he is honored in the communist war museum in Vietnam for the defeat of America, and he was on the FBI's communist watch list for 7 years.

I also know many Vietnam war vets. None of them like Kerry. He got injured 3 times in combat (2 of which, were self inflicted wounds) so that he could go home early. He also got purple hearts for being injured. But he threw them in the dirt at an anti war protest. He got a silver start for killing a Vietnamese soldier...that was already wounded and running from him.

This man is definately not the kind of president I want, and I dont think that a man like that should even be aloud in this country.

He needs to leave so the war on terror can be resolved.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I dont think the War on Terror is going to end any time soon. Terrorism is a threat to every nation in the world, and that threat will neve go away until every last terrorist is killed, and we are never going to kill every single one. New ones wil always be being recruited.

How will this war benefit Bush? It started out with 9/11. The search for Saddam and Osama. OK yes, we found Saddam.... seems as though you hear nothing on the search for Osama... terrorism is the new big issue. The hostages, murders, etc. WHAT IS BUSH DOING THAT MAKES HIM SO GREAT? As I said in my last reply... the man is a moran. He needs to leave so the war on terror can be resolved.
In my view terrorism is the main issue & it started before 9/11. The terrorists were the only ones who decided to pay attention (USS Cole, 1st WTC bombing, Kenya & Tansania embassies). So I support a sustained offensive push by the US against terrorism. That is what he is doing that I agree with, along with tax relief. Which I read may be their main domestic issue: a flat tax or consumption tax & 86 the IRS.

The Correct answer to this question, of course, is 'none of the above'!
Any sane individual with the qualifications to be a President of the United States is quite aware that the rewards simply do not justify the drawbacks of running for office in today's environment, so we mostly end up with those who are power-mad enough to go through the gauntlet anyways...

As to the 'War on Terra, er, Terror" never ending...
This arguement is like the one that says that I can outrun a bullet...
After all, by the time the bullet reaches the point I was at, I've had a chance to move... So, the bullet will never reach me, right?

The correct answer on that one, is that we have to kill them off faster than they can recruit new ones, is all!

Polls of people in Iraq show that most of them favor 'Capitalism', and 'Democracy'...
and that most of them don't even know what 'Capitalism' and 'Democracy' are!
They only know that what they HAD been doing, under Saddam, just wasn't working very well...

In my view terrorism is the main issue & it started before 9/11. The terrorists were the only ones who decided to pay attention (USS Cole, 1st WTC bombing, Kenya & Tansania embassies). So I support a sustained offensive push by the US against terrorism. That is what he is doing that I agree with, along with tax relief. Which I read may be their main domestic issue: a flat tax or consumption tax & 86 the IRS.

If you're looking for a recent 'starting point' (rather than going back to the Diaspora), I would pick the day that the 'Great Commmunicator' tucked our tail between our legs and fled, when the terrorists bombed the Beirut Hilton, where we had bivouaced our Marines...
Invading Grenada just was NOT the kind of thing to convince them that 'we really meant business'! They've since been emboldened by Saddam's antics, and 9/11 was just another 'piece of the puzzle', as far as proving that America is a weak-willed nation of cowards (by thier standards, at least)!
Clinton was no prize, and Kerry won't be much better...
but Reagan, and the Bushes, have done more to reward the terrorists than anyone I've ever seen, I'm afraid...

As to the 'tax relief'...
Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem kind of odd to 'cut' taxes by borrowing more money than ever before?
In the long term, this is going to be far more disastrous to the economy than if he left taxes right where they were, and had cut spending by an equal amount...
But, then, neither Dubya, nor his Dad, have ever been shy about spending our money for us!

I'd say Kerry because I like Ketchup

also I like Kerry cuz it sounds somewhat like curry.

And have you ever had curry catsup? I had some in Belgium with my frites and it was awesome.

So vote Curry Catsup in 2004!

I will agree with you about Beruit- Gipper's response was not what I would have wished for. I suppose he picked his battles & saw the Soviets & the attempted Marxist gov't in Grenada as greater threats.

As for Clinton not being one to embolden terrorists- I dissmiss that absolutely.

Lower taxes will always pay off. More economic activity & people having their own money is always a good thing. Deficits get paid off, they always do.

I'd say Kerry because I like Ketchup

also I like Kerry cuz it sounds somewhat like curry.

And have you ever had curry catsup? I had some in Belgium with my frites and it was awesome.

So vote Curry Catsup in 2004!
Brilliant!

Taken from http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/7/30/154040/162

1. A mere 38 days after taking office, the World Trade Center is attacked for the first time. Clinton captures and imprisons Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah.
2. January 1994: Clinton's first crime bill provides for stringent anti-terrorism measures, as does the more specifically targetted Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. Clinton also requested and received funding for sponsoring simulated terrorist attacks to test the effectiveness of municpal response teams.
3. July 1996: Congressional Republicans object to Clinton's proposed expansion of the intelligence agencies wiretap authority. Newt Gingrich tells Fox News Sunday: "When you have an agency that turns 900 personnel files over to people like Craig Livingstone... it's very hard to justify giving the agency more power."
4. September 1996: Republicans in Congress refuse all of Clinton's requested counterterrorism spending. Orrin Hatch (R-UT): "The administration would be wise to utilize the resources Congress has already provided before it requests additional funding."
5. Summer 1998: Clinton issues series of top secret directives to the CIA authorizing the assassination of Osama Bin Laden and several of his top lieutenants.
6. August 1998: Alleged chemical weapons factories in Sudan are bombed. The bombings are met with bipartisan approval: "The President did exactly the right thing. By doing this we're sending the signal there are no sancturies for terrorists." -Newt Gingrich. Richard Clarke, counterterrorism expert under both Bush and Clinton, testifying before the 9-11 commission, on the bombing: "To this day, there are a lot of people who believe that it was not related to a terrorist group, not related to chemical weapons. They're wrong, by the way. But the President had decided in PDD-39 that there should be a low threshold of evidence when it comes to the possibility of terrorists getting their access -- getting their hands on chemical weapons. And he acted on that basis."
7. Paul Bremer to the Washington Post on Clinton: "he correctly focused on bin Laden". "Overall, I give him very high remarks" - Robert Oakley, Reagan counterterrorism czar.
8. Economy prospers, crime is down, abortions are down, and teenage pregnencies are down. Clinton, however, very concerned about the "growing threat of terrorism".
9. August 2000: Bush says "If called on by the commander in chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for duty, sir.'" Proceed to kick the crap out of Afghanistan the following September.
10. October 2000: USS Cole is attacked by suicide bombers, killing seventeen sailors and wounding 39 others. Clinton decides to leave any response to the incoming Bush administration.
11. Winter 2000: Sandy Berger briefs Condolezza Rice on al Qaeda. Later NSA Rice denies then confirms that this meeting took place.
12. Richard Clarke lays out the whole Clinton al Qaeda plan; NSA Rice likes him so much she decides he should stay.1
13. January 2001: Outgoing Clinton officials say "The Bush team thinks we're obsessed with terrorism".
14. February 15: Former US Senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman issue a report that warns "mass casualty terrorism directed against the US homeland is of serious and growing concern". Recommends the creation of a National Homeland Security Agency.
15. April 30: Clarke presents plan to fight al Qaeda and to start a National Homeland Security Agency. Gets floated around the office, but is more or less ignored.1
16. May: The Bush administration gives $43 million to the Taliban in an attempt to convince them to quit growing and exporting opium.
17. July 10: FBI agent sends headquarters a memo concerning some middle eastern students learning to fly who have no interest in taking off or landing.
18. July: Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet warns NSA Rice that a major attack on American soil is probably imminent.
19. August 6: George Tenet delivers to the vacationing Bush a memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.", saying al Qaeda is planning on hijacking planes and possibly attacking New York. No action is taken. The next day Bush tells the press pool "I've got a lot of national secuirty concerns that we're working on - Iraq, Macedonia, very worrisome right now."
20. August 16: INS arrests Moussaoui, saying he's "the type of person who could fly something into the World Trade Center".
21. August 25th: Bush still on vacation. Clarke's memo of fighting terrorism still sitting around, waiting for his attention. Bush tells press "Spot's a good runner. You know, Barney-terriers are bred to go into holes and pull out varmint. And Spotty chases birds. Spotty's a great water dog. I'll go fly fishing this afternoon on my lake." Later builds a nature trail.
22. Feeling the heat in August about an "imminent terrorist attack", acting FBI Director Thomas Pickard requests an additional $58 million in anti-terrorism funding from the Department of Justice.
23. September 5: Eight months after Rice had been briefed, and 11 months after Clinton suggested Bush create it, Clarke's plan finally reaches the principals comittee. Bush is back from his month-long August vacation. Cheney, Rice, Powell, and Rumsfeld decide to advise Bush to adopt Clarke's plan with a phased in approach. They wait several days before they put it on his desk.1
24. September 9: The Senate Armed Services Committe recommends shifting $814 million from missile defense to anti-terrorism funding. Secretary Rumsfeld informs the Senate that he will recommend the President veto this.
25. September 10: Ashcroft sends his budget request to Bush. Includes spending increases in 68 different programs, none of which deal with terrorism. Ashcroft passes around a memo to his department of his seven top priorities, again terrorism isn't on the list. Acting FBI Director Pickard receives Ashcroft's official denial for Pickard's request for more anti-terrorism funding.
26. September 11: Using hijacked airliners, Saudi and Egyptian members of al Qaeda attack the World Trade Center and Pentagon, killing thousands. Another hijacked airline crashes to earth in eastern Pennsylvania, apparently brought down as part of a battle between the hijackers and the passengers. Military moves to DefCon 3, all domestic flights are grounded.
27. September 11-15: Some 142 Saudi nationals, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, are allowed to fly out of the country.
28. November: Clinton's "defunct, cut, non-battle ready military" kicks the crap out of Afghanistan.
29. Military is so dismantled it prompts Lawrence J. Korb, director of national secuirty studies at the Council of Foreign Relations, to say after the Iraq invasion "[t]he fact of the matter is that most of the credit for the successful military operation should go to the Clinton Admnistration."
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So many people oppose Kerry on the basis that he is for "big government". What exactly do you think spending a 1 trillion dollar budget surplus and another trillion the gov't didn't have, and the creation of Homeland Security was? Thats big government in its greatest form.

Vote John Kerry.

Deficits don't always get paid off, our deficit has been growing ever larger for 50 years and payments on the debt are an appreciable fraction of your total tax bill.

I agree with you on lower taxes though.

I will agree with you about Beruit- Gipper's response was not what I would have wished for. I suppose he picked his battles & saw the Soviets & the attempted Marxist gov't in Grenada as greater threats.

As for Clinton not being one to embolden terrorists- I dissmiss that absolutely.

Lower taxes will always pay off. More economic activity & people having their own money is always a good thing. Deficits get paid off, they always do.

Oh, please...
Grenada, a threat? Nope, it was a case of 'chicken little', plain and simple...

And, believe me, I'm not letting "Slick Willy" off the hook...
but we kind of expect that sort of thing from Democrats!
When even the Republicans cry 'Run Away!', though, why *should* the terrorists be worried?

Lower taxes would be nice, if they were ever lower in any real sense...
but the last President who had a year (just one!) in which the National Debt ended up lower at the end, than at the beginning, was Richard Milhous ("Tricky Dick") Nixon! EVERY single president since then has increased the Debt!
So, why did the 'deficit' go 'down' under Clinton?
Simple...
It didn't!
He just took things 'off budget' until he created a mythical 'surplus' that we could all belive in!
Bush's "Tax Cut" is just as bad, but he's not even doing as good a job of selling his 'fairy tale' of the economy as Slick Willy did!

Deficits have NOT been growing larger each year for the last 50 years. Learn your definitions. Deficits are the yearly total debt. The debt is the total of all debts when combined with budget surpluses. Clinton's administration had a budget surplus for at least 2 of the years in he was in office, possibly more, and left Bush with 1 trillion dollars in total surplus. Bush has spent all that two times over, as during his administration he's increased the national debt by approximately 1 trillion. Prior to his administration, the national debt was approximately 6 trillion. In one 4 year term, he increased the debt by nearly 17%. He did this in 4 years, which is 1.8% percent of the time the US has elected a President.

Get your facts straight. You'll see the US needs a better president.

Vote John Kerry.

Brilliant!

And now you know why people across the World have no respect for the American Electorate...

Kerry, bush had his chance and bumbled it up, time to let someone else to the talking for our country.

That's quite a list & I'm sure alot of it is true. It sounds alot like trying to explain away not doing jack shit of consequence for 8 years. The listing of the Sudan terrorist camps/aspirin factories is a joke (Lewinsky testimony).

Yes, Clinton & Assoc. arrested a few terrorist. BFD. That is not a sustained offensive campaign against terrorists.

Deficits have NOT been growing larger each year for the last 50 years. Learn your definitions. Deficits are the yearly total debt. The debt is the total of all debts when combined with budget surpluses. Clinton's administration had a budget surplus for at least 2 of the years in he was in office, possibly more, and left Bush with 1 trillion dollars in total surplus. Bush has spent all that two times over, as during his administration he's increased the national debt by approximately 1 trillion. Prior to his administration, the national debt was approximately 6 trillion. In one 4 year term, he increased the debt by nearly 17%. He did this in 4 years, which is 1.8% percent of the time the US has elected a President.

Get your facts straight. You'll see the US needs a better president.

Vote John Kerry.

If you believe that Clinton reduced the Deficit, and actually gave us a Surplus (Hah!), then you'll also believe that Ronnie Reagan actually reduced the 'Unemployment Rate' when he declared half of the Unemployed to be 'Discouraged', and thus, 'not really unemployed'!
The current debt stands very close to 7 trillion dollars, and that's not all Bush's spending (though he certainly hasn't helpped!)...

The US does, indeed, need a better President, than either John Kerry, or George Bush... it's a pity we're not going to get one!
Time to let BOTH Political Parties know that we need them to be much choosier the next time around!

If you believe that Clinton reduced the Deficit, and actually gave us a Surplus (Hah!), then you'll also believe that Ronnie Reagan actually reduced the 'Unemployment Rate' when he declared half of the Unemployed to be 'Discouraged', and thus, 'not really unemployed'!
The current debt stands very close to 7 trillion dollars, and that's not all Bush's spending (though he certainly hasn't helpped!)...

The US does, indeed, need a better President, than either John Kerry, or George Bush... it's a pity we're not going to get one!
Time to let BOTH Political Parties know that we need them to be much choosier the next time around!

Very true, but we have to crawl before we can walk that's why kerry is probably the better of the two evils. And actually Clinton did reduce the defecit, he did take a rather sizable chunk out of that 7 trillion that you're talking about or atleast he stunned it's growth, I can't really remember which. And you are right, there was no surplus overall, there was just a 250 billion dollar surplus in the Social Security budget.

How will this war benefit Bush? It started out with 9/11. The search for Saddam and Osama. OK yes, we found Saddam.... seems as though you hear nothing on the search for Osama... terrorism is the new big issue. The hostages, murders, etc. WHAT IS BUSH DOING THAT MAKES HIM SO GREAT? As I said in my last reply... the man is a moran. He needs to leave so the war on terror can be resolved.

Don't you mean "moron"? Just wondering, because it seems unfair to call someone stupid when you are unable to spell words properly. And no, I am not a Bush supporter.

Oh no contest....Kerry by far

And now you know why people across the World have no respect for the American Electorate...
First off- that was a joke & I'm assuming the one who wrote the katsup stuff was joking too.

I have news for you- outside of some of the elites on the upper east side & some actors in LA. No one stateside gives a flying fornication if some Euroweenies have respect for the electorate.

It is more than likely that Bush will be back for 4 more.

Taken from http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/7/30/154040/162

1. A mere 38 days after taking office, the World Trade Center is attacked for the first time. Clinton captures and imprisons Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah.
2. January 1994: Clinton's first crime bill provides for stringent anti-terrorism measures, as does the more specifically targetted Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. Clinton also requested and received funding for sponsoring simulated terrorist attacks to test the effectiveness of municpal response teams.
3. July 1996: Congressional Republicans object to Clinton's proposed expansion of the intelligence agencies wiretap authority. Newt Gingrich tells Fox News Sunday: "When you have an agency that turns 900 personnel files over to people like Craig Livingstone... it's very hard to justify giving the agency more power."
4. September 1996: Republicans in Congress refuse all of Clinton's requested counterterrorism spending. Orrin Hatch (R-UT): "The administration would be wise to utilize the resources Congress has already provided before it requests additional funding."
5. Summer 1998: Clinton issues series of top secret directives to the CIA authorizing the assassination of Osama Bin Laden and several of his top lieutenants.
6. August 1998: Alleged chemical weapons factories in Sudan are bombed. The bombings are met with bipartisan approval: "The President did exactly the right thing. By doing this we're sending the signal there are no sancturies for terrorists." -Newt Gingrich. Richard Clarke, counterterrorism expert under both Bush and Clinton, testifying before the 9-11 commission, on the bombing: "To this day, there are a lot of people who believe that it was not related to a terrorist group, not related to chemical weapons. They're wrong, by the way. But the President had decided in PDD-39 that there should be a low threshold of evidence when it comes to the possibility of terrorists getting their access -- getting their hands on chemical weapons. And he acted on that basis."
7. Paul Bremer to the Washington Post on Clinton: "he correctly focused on bin Laden". "Overall, I give him very high remarks" - Robert Oakley, Reagan counterterrorism czar.
8. Economy prospers, crime is down, abortions are down, and teenage pregnencies are down. Clinton, however, very concerned about the "growing threat of terrorism".
9. August 2000: Bush says "If called on by the commander in chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for duty, sir.'" Proceed to kick the crap out of Afghanistan the following September.
10. October 2000: USS Cole is attacked by suicide bombers, killing seventeen sailors and wounding 39 others. Clinton decides to leave any response to the incoming Bush administration.
11. Winter 2000: Sandy Berger briefs Condolezza Rice on al Qaeda. Later NSA Rice denies then confirms that this meeting took place.
12. Richard Clarke lays out the whole Clinton al Qaeda plan; NSA Rice likes him so much she decides he should stay.1
13. January 2001: Outgoing Clinton officials say "The Bush team thinks we're obsessed with terrorism".
14. February 15: Former US Senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman issue a report that warns "mass casualty terrorism directed against the US homeland is of serious and growing concern". Recommends the creation of a National Homeland Security Agency.
15. April 30: Clarke presents plan to fight al Qaeda and to start a National Homeland Security Agency. Gets floated around the office, but is more or less ignored.1
16. May: The Bush administration gives $43 million to the Taliban in an attempt to convince them to quit growing and exporting opium.
17. July 10: FBI agent sends headquarters a memo concerning some middle eastern students learning to fly who have no interest in taking off or landing.
18. July: Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet warns NSA Rice that a major attack on American soil is probably imminent.
19. August 6: George Tenet delivers to the vacationing Bush a memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.", saying al Qaeda is planning on hijacking planes and possibly attacking New York. No action is taken. The next day Bush tells the press pool "I've got a lot of national secuirty concerns that we're working on - Iraq, Macedonia, very worrisome right now."
20. August 16: INS arrests Moussaoui, saying he's "the type of person who could fly something into the World Trade Center".
21. August 25th: Bush still on vacation. Clarke's memo of fighting terrorism still sitting around, waiting for his attention. Bush tells press "Spot's a good runner. You know, Barney-terriers are bred to go into holes and pull out varmint. And Spotty chases birds. Spotty's a great water dog. I'll go fly fishing this afternoon on my lake." Later builds a nature trail.
22. Feeling the heat in August about an "imminent terrorist attack", acting FBI Director Thomas Pickard requests an additional $58 million in anti-terrorism funding from the Department of Justice.
23. September 5: Eight months after Rice had been briefed, and 11 months after Clinton suggested Bush create it, Clarke's plan finally reaches the principals comittee. Bush is back from his month-long August vacation. Cheney, Rice, Powell, and Rumsfeld decide to advise Bush to adopt Clarke's plan with a phased in approach. They wait several days before they put it on his desk.1
24. September 9: The Senate Armed Services Committe recommends shifting $814 million from missile defense to anti-terrorism funding. Secretary Rumsfeld informs the Senate that he will recommend the President veto this.
25. September 10: Ashcroft sends his budget request to Bush. Includes spending increases in 68 different programs, none of which deal with terrorism. Ashcroft passes around a memo to his department of his seven top priorities, again terrorism isn't on the list. Acting FBI Director Pickard receives Ashcroft's official denial for Pickard's request for more anti-terrorism funding.
26. September 11: Using hijacked airliners, Saudi and Egyptian members of al Qaeda attack the World Trade Center and Pentagon, killing thousands. Another hijacked airline crashes to earth in eastern Pennsylvania, apparently brought down as part of a battle between the hijackers and the passengers. Military moves to DefCon 3, all domestic flights are grounded.
27. September 11-15: Some 142 Saudi nationals, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, are allowed to fly out of the country.
28. November: Clinton's "defunct, cut, non-battle ready military" kicks the crap out of Afghanistan.
29. Military is so dismantled it prompts Lawrence J. Korb, director of national secuirty studies at the Council of Foreign Relations, to say after the Iraq invasion "[t]he fact of the matter is that most of the credit for the successful military operation should go to the Clinton Admnistration."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So many people oppose Kerry on the basis that he is for "big government". What exactly do you think spending a 1 trillion dollar budget surplus and another trillion the gov't didn't have, and the creation of Homeland Security was? Thats big government in its greatest form.

Vote John Kerry.


That was not Bush's decision to allow the bin Laden's to fly out of the country. That was Clarke's, and he admitted to it, and said that he would do it again. Why does that matter anyway? An overhwhelming majority of bin Laden's family hates him and wants nothing to do with him. I don't see any vague point you are unsuccessfully making with that.

Kerry
Google Operation Northwoods.

Bush.

:mad: KERRY definitly, I think Bush is really stupid and his "war" is even more stupid and completely pointless. :headbang:

And now you know why people across the World have no respect for the American Electorate...

Why? Because someone made a joke about catsup? I was just tired of all the Bush or Kerry threads and decided to make an attempt at humor. Or maybe that is yoru argument. Too much humor in America.

:mad: KERRY definitly, I think Bush is really stupid and his "war" is even more stupid and completely pointless. :headbang:
So I take it you think he's stupid, or just stupid?

Kerry, because quite frankly the rest of the world tends to view Bush as - to put it as kindly as I can - "intellectually challenged" and indeed simply a puppet for whomsoever behind the scenes pulls his strings. Sorreeeee, but that's the painful truth

Ok first im British so im not fully aware of the full situation but

I can comment on the first since we are fully involved in this the war in Iraq is far from won whilst the initial conflict was well planned on your part the peace wasnt. Whilst in the south us British had a far easier job we do more to win hearts and minds plus we havent had the same attrocities that you undertook (or havent been stupid enough to be caught with our pants down which would be an accurate description).
So iraq is less stable at this moment in time and there is a higher degree of terroism.

2. Doesnt Kerry want to bring in tax cuts for the middle class which would be most of you reading leaving the rich to take the bill. Also wouldnt the health insurace thing help most people.

3. How can you vote for someone who runs your economy so badly rule number one balance the budget which can only spell trouble in the long term. As far as i know there isnt a major world recesion at the mo.


I think i would without a doubt vote for Kerry I think it would do you alot of favours internationally especially with muslims on the whole but i think both were zionists and both support that ridiculous wall around Pallastine. I do hope that kerry wins

I think i would without a doubt vote for Kerry I think it would do you alot of favours internationally especially with muslims on the whole but i think both were zionists and both support that ridiculous wall around Pallastine. I do hope that kerry wins

Glad to see I'm not the only sane person on the boards when it comes to the Israel situation, and go figure I'm an American.

It's too bad Clinton had to go... I thought he was a good president. Not a very good person, but a good president.

Bush needs to go. He's cutting taxes and raising spending.... thats not a good thing long term for the economy. But meh, I'm a Canadian, so its not like what I think matters...

It's too bad. These are all great arguments (except for the Catsup one lol) and ones that everyone in the states need to here. Problem is, a lot of them just swallow Bush's BS without complaint.

Well I am Canadian, so like my British friend, I can't say I know ALL of the situations in the US right now. However, I find it quite obvious that Kerry should win the next election. I don't really like Kerry, but the fact is that your system (like most) is flawed, so instead of voting FOR someone, you vote against someone. I almost feel sorry for those who still, after all that has happened, support Bush. They have been so brainwashed in believing that in order to be "Patriotic" they have to blindly support their president in whatever he choses to do. Face it, Bush has HURT your international relations a lot, he's put your country into more and more debt, AND HE'S JUST PLAIN STUPID!

Please for the love of God, vote for Kerry in the next election because your country is turning into a freaking world dictatorship.

It's too bad Clinton had to go... I thought he was a good president. Not a very good person, but a good president.

Bush needs to go. He's cutting taxes and raising spending.... thats not a good thing long term for the economy. But meh, I'm a Canadian, so its not like what I think matters...

It's too bad. These are all great arguments (except for the Catsup one lol) and ones that everyone in the states need to here. Problem is, a lot of them just swallow Bush's BS without complaint.

Yea I agree, Clinton was awesome. He handled the social aspect of the country perfectly while still keeping a respectable world view of America. Too bad he wasn't as good of a husband as he was a president.

:) :sniper:
Bush ---- Me

clear?

:) :sniper:
Bush ---- Me

clear?

For once I don't mind violence.

For once I don't mind violence.

Me neither.... weird.

i would mind if Bush was shot.

I think that for one, he is getting off the hook too easily (unless of course you are merely shooting him in th kneecaps, which I am okay with.)

Also, Dick Cheney would then be in charge. He is one of the puppeteers. Bush shouldnt be blamed for having his strings pulled.

Don't shoot Cheney either. Don't shoot anyone... it's more fun to punish people for their crimes than to give them an easy release thru death.

I for one don't wanna a 'socialist' in office yet. He can only be called a commie if he starts killing people to oppress the people. Right now he is only using propaganda...And Reagon, nor Clinton highered the deficit. The Congress had a deal or bill or something that had a way to upgrade and make the military larger, but most democrats in the senate continued spending. If you want source, go find it yourself, im kinda busy at the moment, sorry. Not to come off a hardass or anything :(.

A: no, kerry does not want to cut anyone's taxes, he only wants to raise taxes on those making 200k or more (which, if you live in boise, idaho, that's not a big deal, but if you live in NYC or LA then you're screwed.

B: if you actually look at the economy numbers, we were headed towards a recession the last 2 years clinton was in office, and its not totally his fault, nor anyone else's. economies go up and down, recession and recovery are natural parts of every economy's life cycle.

C: the economy is on the recovery. bush cannot claim full responsibility for it, but tax cuts generally increases demand, which increases spending, which increases job hirings.

D: kerry wants to raise the minimum wage to $7.50 an hour, which would without a doubt shut down thousands of small businesses, considering the majority of them make just enough to pay the bills, workers, and owners.

E: if you're one of those people who think bush is a moron but also accuse him of duping the 36 countries into following him into iraq, your arguments no longer have any validity b/c you've contradicted yourself.

F: if you've heard the majority of vietnam vets, they absolutely despise kerry. they say he's an opportunist who's using his "war record" to try and gain more votes not b/c he did anything great, but b/c he can. they talk about him hiding when the real fighting was going on and using any extra time to put together videos. who else have you ever heard of that brought video equipment to vietnam?

G: the national debt is always growing, even when its lowered a little. that's how most countries run. its not bad or evil or anything, just the facts of life. that political science 101 material that everyone should realize.

so i'm voting for bush. he's not perfect, but he's doing a heck of a lot better job than most people (including kerry) would. :)

Yea I agree, Clinton was awesome. He handled the social aspect of the country perfectly while still keeping a respectable world view of America. Too bad he wasn't as good of a husband as he was a president.

True, but he treated the military like crap.

A vote for Kerry is a vote for communism! Save the USA and dont let communism swallow it whole!

A vote for Kerry is a vote for communism! Save the USA and dont let communism swallow it whole!

Um, well in that case. GO REDS! *walks away reading the communist manifesto*

A: no, kerry does not want to cut anyone's taxes, he only wants to raise taxes on those making 200k or more (which, if you live in boise, idaho, that's not a big deal, but if you live in NYC or LA then you're screwed.

B: if you actually look at the economy numbers, we were headed towards a recession the last 2 years clinton was in office, and its not totally his fault, nor anyone else's. economies go up and down, recession and recovery are natural parts of every economy's life cycle.

C: the economy is on the recovery. bush cannot claim full responsibility for it, but tax cuts generally increases demand, which increases spending, which increases job hirings.

D: kerry wants to raise the minimum wage to $7.50 an hour, which would without a doubt shut down thousands of small businesses, considering the majority of them make just enough to pay the bills, workers, and owners.

E: if you're one of those people who think bush is a moron but also accuse him of duping the 36 countries into following him into iraq, your arguments no longer have any validity b/c you've contradicted yourself.

F: if you've heard the majority of vietnam vets, they absolutely despise kerry. they say he's an opportunist who's using his "war record" to try and gain more votes not b/c he did anything great, but b/c he can. they talk about him hiding when the real fighting was going on and using any extra time to put together videos. who else have you ever heard of that brought video equipment to vietnam?

G: the national debt is always growing, even when its lowered a little. that's how most countries run. its not bad or evil or anything, just the facts of life. that political science 101 material that everyone should realize.

so i'm voting for bush. he's not perfect, but he's doing a heck of a lot better job than most people (including kerry) would. :)


You can be a dumb person and dupe others. Look at Children, they are minipulative with their cuteness to get their way but its not intelligence.bAlso Cheney is the one who duped others he has the brains, Bush uses his dumb cuteness ruitine.

The problem the the jobs Bush has given is they pay less than the jobs Bush has lost us. 20% less pay all even Fox News(that is a concervative news thing so concervatives trust it) says than the old ones.

Where did you read he wants to increase Minimum wages to 7 dollars? Proof please, unless its your opinion or hearsay.

And the last words make no sense, you do'nt know Kerry would do worse. At best yu are guessing at worse you are pretending.
Unless you can predict the future and then you've thrown away your vote since you can't know Kerry's record as President unless you know he wins.

*voting for Kerry*

God you people... If you're going to flame Bush, at least do it intelligently.
Very true long live Kerry- he's a war veteran. He deserves it.

For once I don't mind violence.
Me Neither

The problem the the jobs Bush has given is they pay less than the jobs Bush has lost us. 20% less pay all even Fox News(that is a concervative news thing so concervatives trust it) says than the old ones.

Where did you read he wants to increase Minimum wages to 7 dollars? Proof please, unless its your opinion or hearsay.

And the last words make no sense, you do'nt know Kerry would do worse. At best yu are guessing at worse you are pretending.
Unless you can predict the future and then you've thrown away your vote since you can't know Kerry's record as President unless you know he wins.

1. like i said, economies rise and fall in a general fashion. it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot more higher-paying jobs in the next 2-5 years, even if kerry is elected (as long as he doesn't raise minimum wage (point 2))

2. Kerry on minimum wage: http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040702-090657-5405r
there's my proof, if you want you can go to any search engine and just type kerry minimum wage.

3. i realize kerry doesn't have a record as president, and hence i have to go based on his senate record, of which he missed 80% (proof in next link) of the votes this year, and several intelligence briefings on terrorism. his voting record, considering how many flip-flops he's had, kinda worries me.
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0604/061704-kerry.htm

anyways, that's my take :-)

Very true he's a war veteran. He deserves it.

Just because he is a war veteran doesnt mean that he should be the president. Bush was a war veteran too. And Kerry is a dishonorable veteran, and all other vets that I know strongly dislike him.

Just because he is a war veteran doesnt mean that he should be the president. Bush was a war veteran too. And Kerry is a dishonorable veteran, and all other vets that I know strongly dislike him.

That's a joke, right? Please tell me you're joking.

I am in no sence joking my friend.

You're right, Bush was a war veteren.

I mean...God, he fought off thsoe vicious champaigne bottles! We were almost done for then! Thank Jesus and the christian God that our country is founded after that he saved us all!

Bush!!!!!!!!!!

Just because he is a war veteran doesnt mean that he should be the president. Bush was a war veteran too. And Kerry is a dishonorable veteran, and all other vets that I know strongly dislike him.

Hmmm...I think the key words in your statement are "...that I know..."

I'm a Veteran - four years active duty with the United States Army, three years inactive reserve, and 21 years in the National Guard. In fact, at this moment I am a Sergeant Major in the Army National Guard.

And I will be voting for Kerry.

Ok. Hold the freakin boat. Bush's FATHER was a war veteran. Bush rode out the war in the states, and he was even AWOL during that period.

In order to be a war veteran, you must have fought IN A WAR!

And for those people bashing the silver and bronze stars, shame on you. My grandfather won the silver star in WW1. They don't give em out lightly, and you shouldn't trash the acts of countless Americans who served. Hell, Kerry VOLOUNTEERED to go to nam when Bush was hiding his precious hiney. He VOLOUNTEERED for one of the most dangerous duties in nam had to offer him, while Bush shrugged even his nominal military duties to help a political campaign. Kerry's boatmates and other soldiers have testified to his bravery. You make yourselves look weak by bashing on that.

The reason many vietnam vets were pissed at Kerry is because he realized the war was bad, and brought to light atrocities committed by our troops UNDER ORDERS. He felt that the damage caused to our vets by public opinion was overweighed by speaking the truth, and he made some enemies by it.

What record does Bush run on? Oh yeah, a record of CONVICTIONS and drug use. He is the only sitting president to have a crimminal record, and he has a record number of convicts working in his administration, including CONVICTED felons. This from the same party who declared that the presidency must be held to a higher ethical and moral standard.

My vote goes to Kerry. At least he was man enough to go face the ravages of war, and he knows what war is.

Ok. Hold the freakin boat. Bush's FATHER was a war veteran. Bush rode out the war in the states, and he was even AWOL during that period.

In order to be a war veteran, you must have fought IN A WAR!

And for those people bashing the silver and bronze stars, shame on you. My grandfather won the silver star in WW1. They don't give em out lightly, and you shouldn't trash the acts of countless Americans who served. Hell, Kerry VOLOUNTEERED to go to nam when Bush was hiding his precious hiney. He VOLOUNTEERED for one of the most dangerous duties in nam had to offer him, while Bush shrugged even his nominal military duties to help a political campaign. Kerry's boatmates and other soldiers have testified to his bravery. You make yourselves look weak by bashing on that.

The reason many vietnam vets were pissed at Kerry is because he realized the war was bad, and brought to light atrocities committed by our troops UNDER ORDERS. He felt that the damage caused to our vets by public opinion was overweighed by speaking the truth, and he made some enemies by it.

What record does Bush run on? Oh yeah, a record of CONVICTIONS and drug use. He is the only sitting president to have a crimminal record, and he has a record number of convicts working in his administration, including CONVICTED felons. This from the same party who declared that the presidency must be held to a higher ethical and moral standard.

My vote goes to Kerry. At least he was man enough to go face the ravages of war, and he knows what war is.

*applause* :) :)

27. September 11-15: Some 142 Saudi nationals, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, are allowed to fly out of the country.

I'd like to correct you there. It was September 15th only, after planes were no longer grounded, I think it was 26 members of the bin laden family, in which 22 of the 26 were interviewed. So we did more than normal to make sure these guys weren't getting away with anything. In addition, the planes were given permission to go by Richard Clarke-- not the Bush Administration.

Yes, Bush does suck up to the Saudis. But here's the thing-- if we were to wage war against them and start looking for terrorists, you can say goodbye to our economy. Bush sucks up to the Saudis because he HAS to (we are dependent on their oil). So instead, in the war against terror, Saudi Arabia has to be an obstacle that we work around.

The sad, unfortunate truth.

Bush did more than any president in the realm of terrorism through this war in Iraq. This war in Iraq will create a heart of democracy in a place that breeds terrorism. It's the best way and the only way to conquer terrorism.

For people who are sheltered and don't know shit about terrorism:
- Terrorism is used as a political weapon by governments
- Governments do it by brainwashing their children through misinformation in schools and the media

By creating a heart of democracy in Iraq, we're no longer allowing this brainwashing to occur, thus stopping children from growing into terrorists. Then maybe Iraqis can look and say "hey, terrorism isn't solving shit-- all it's doing is creating violence", and they can tell their Arab friends in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Palestinians, and this democracy will spread and help destroy terrorism.

Bush is a man who sticks to his principles, and that makes him a strong president.

Kerry changes his opinions on issues depending on the crowd he presents to. When it comes to November, people will go to the booths and think "With which president do I feel more secure?". Knowing that Bush has a mission for this country and can explain how he goes about doing it while Kerry's goals are fuzzy and unknown, people will vote for Bush. Bush will win by a large margin, in my opinion.

EDIT-- All this war veteran and who did what in the military doesn't mean jackshit-- it doesn't show what kind of president they are. It's their policies and principles that matter, and their committment to following them.

I'd like to correct you there. It was September 15th only, after planes were no longer grounded, I think it was 26 members of the bin laden family, in which 22 of the 26 were interviewed. So we did more than normal to make sure these guys weren't getting away with anything. In addition, the planes were given permission to go by Richard Clarke-- not the Bush Administration.

Yes, Bush does suck up to the Saudis. But here's the thing-- if we were to wage war against them and start looking for terrorists, you can say goodbye to our economy. Bush sucks up to the Saudis because he HAS to (we are dependent on their oil). So instead, in the war against terror, Saudi Arabia has to be an obstacle that we work around.

The sad, unfortunate truth.

Bush did more than any president in the realm of terrorism through this war in Iraq. This war in Iraq will create a heart of democracy in a place that breeds terrorism. It's the best way and the only way to conquer terrorism.

For people who are sheltered and don't know shit about terrorism:
- Terrorism is used as a political weapon by governments
- Governments do it by brainwashing their children through misinformation in schools and the media

By creating a heart of democracy in Iraq, we're no longer allowing this brainwashing to occur, thus stopping children from growing into terrorists. Then maybe Iraqis can look and say "hey, terrorism isn't solving shit-- all it's doing is creating violence", and they can tell their Arab friends in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Palestinians, and this democracy will spread and help destroy terrorism.

Bush is a man who sticks to his principles, and that makes him a strong president.

Kerry changes his opinions on issues depending on the crowd he presents to. When it comes to November, people will go to the booths and think "With which president do I feel more secure?". Knowing that Bush has a mission for this country and can explain how he goes about doing it while Kerry's goals are fuzzy and unknown, people will vote for Bush. Bush will win by a large margin, in my opinion.

EDIT-- All this war veteran and who did what in the military doesn't mean jackshit-- it doesn't show what kind of president they are. It's their policies and principles that matter, and their committment to following them.

So a man who sticks to their principles, no matter what, is a better leader than a man who is willing to change his mind based on evidence presented to him? A few strong leaders have been like that, mostly in dictatorships.

And a man shows his principles by his past actions, as we can all agree (after all, that is what you are doing in calling Kerry into question). What principles has Bush shown in his past?

Drunk driving, Cocaine addiction, escaping military duty through priviledged status. Three failed businesses. Founded an oil drilling business in TEXAS that couldn't find any oil in same. Willingness to hire convicted felons into the white house. Sucking up to Saudi royals before and after election while stating he is trying to rid us of dependenvce on them. Garnering political favor from Enron execs. LEt's see. Oh yeah, the conviction that hiding the truth from the American people in how they are leading the government is best for America (energy hearings and repeated denials to supply congress with reports on administration activities, including the possible authorization of the use of torture) Denial of Geneva Convention protection for prisoners. Holding US citizens without the right to representation because they are "bad."

All aboard the principle train! Bush cannot run on his principles. There just aren't enough of em (my opinion).