NationStates Jolt Archive

So what does everyone think about immigration into their countries?

Is it good for the economy?
Is it "diluting" the good, white population?
Is that a bad thing?
Are immigrants all dirty criminals?
Did you get your statistics and opinions from a news outlet owned by Rupert Murdoch? :P

Let the games begin!

EDIT: Please be careful to discriminate between legal and illegal immigration. The two are very different things.

Immigration is fine.

Governments tend to bad mouth illegal immigration, and even go so far as to spend token amounts to stem it. But cloistered in their offices, they know that immigration is just another way that capitalism works. There are needs for cheap labor, which immigrants provide in abundance. It keeps prices for produce and the like lower, and alleviates a problem for the country from which the immigration comes (unemployment, crime, etc.)
Yes, occasionally there are abuses to this "system", where one country attempts to de-populate its criminal system through forced "immigration", but then I think we have abused the term.
Personally, I think the greates risk these days in the tolerated illegal immigration, is the concern that there may be terrorists who can use this soft boundary to enter countries to do their ill will.
The above represents my opinion, loosely based on my years of reading news and other opinions. So if there is something you would like to have be substantiate, I guess we are al out of luck!

Immigration is good. That way you can bring more skilled workers into the country. It is probably also a good thing given that my country has a declining birthrate. And nobody said we have to take everyone, just the people who have something useful to offer our society (specialist skills etc).

So what does everyone think about immigration into their countries?

Is it good for the economy?
Is it "diluting" the good, white population?
Is that a bad thing?
Are immigrants all dirty criminals?
Did you get your statistics and opinions from a news outlet owned by Rupert Murdoch? :P

Let the games begin!

I believe in balance. Immigration is fine - up to a point...I would have what I beleieve to be a real concern over being "swamped" both ethnically or racially.

I believe in balance. Immigration is fine - up to a point...I would have what I beleieve to be a real concern over being "swamped" both ethnically or racially.

Why?

It's really simple here folks....legal immigration is great, it's a hallmark of this nation....illegal immigration is bad, and are breaches of national sovereignity and security.

Illegal immigration is BAD if they want to be here so bad they should have to come in the legal way or be BANNED forever. If mexico is so bad they should have to stay there and make it better rather than ruining America. To stop it we need to increase the border patrol and give them better weapons and tell them to shoot to kill.

Immigration is BAD if they want to be here so bad they should have to come in the legal way or be BANNED forever.

Wah? Immigration is what they call it when a person leaves one country and goes to live in another. I don't know where you come from, but when conducted through the proper authorities, immigration is perfectly legal in most countries.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and express my OMG LEFT WING views.

I'm all for legal immigration. And not just for the economic benefits. I want immigrants to come to this country (the UK) because I prefer them to the UK's current residents. Usually they are relatively wealthy when they arrive, they are ambitious and hard-working, they are well-educated and they have good manners. It's a damned sight more than I can say for the majority of white Britons, most of whom are rude, lazy, inconsiderate, ignorant, insular and apathetic. They don't vote, they don't educate themselves about the world around them, they wouldn't stop to help someone in the street, they sleep around, they're crap parents, they eat too much, they don't exercise enough, they don't recycle and, worst of all, they're badly dressed. Immigrants, by comparison, are gifts from God. I love immigrants. I wish that most of this country wasn't white. All of that claptrap that the BNP feed you about immigrants being criminals is nonsense. The only criminals are the people who turn all of those lovely immigrants and asylum seekers away - those bastards. So there you have it. Up the immigrants! I say more power to 'em. Long live Black Britannia!


Does it show yet that I've been having a bad day at the office? :P

Wah? Immigration is what they call it when a person leaves one country and goes to live in another. I don't know where you come from, but when conducted through the proper authorities, immigration is perfectly legal in most countries.

I forgot to put illegal in there.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and express my OMG LEFT WING views.

I'm all for legal immigration. And not just for the economic benefits. I want immigrants to come to this country (the UK) because I prefer them to the UK's current residents. Usually they are relatively wealthy when they arrive, they are ambitious and hard-working, they are well-educated and they have good manners. It's a damned sight more than I can say for the majority of white Britons, most of whom are rude, lazy, inconsiderate, ignorant, insular and apathetic. They don't vote, they don't educate themselves about the world around them, they wouldn't stop to help someone in the street, they sleep around, they're crap parents, they eat too much, they don't exercise enough, they don't recycle and, worst of all, they're badly dressed. Immigrants, by comparison, are gifts from God. I love immigrants. I wish that most of this country wasn't white. All of that claptrap that the BNP feed you about immigrants being criminals is nonsense. The only criminals are the people who turn all of those lovely immigrants and asylum seekers away - those bastards. So there you have it. Up the immigrants! I say more power to 'em. Long live Black Britannia!


Does it show yet that I've been having a bad day at the office? :P
Great. Can I come and live in your country? I'm not black, but I'm part African and I have a law degree and reasonably good dress sense and I'm sick of living here and I have a lot of other really good reasons for wanting to live in the UK. I'm hoping that if I stay up late enough, one of them will IM me. :(

I forgot to put illegal in there.
Oh. Right. You're forgiven then.

Great. Can I come and live in your country? I'm not black, but I'm part African and I have a law degree and reasonably good dress sense and I'm sick of living here and I have a lot of other really good reasons for wanting to live in the UK. I'm hoping that if I stay up late enough, one of them will IM me. :(

Yes! Yes! Come on in! We need educated people like yourself!

Oh, unless you're gay - we also need immigrants to boost our population, so it's breeders only, I'm afraid.

Hot damn!

[packs her bags & trundles off to Brisbane Airport to stand on the tarmac with her thumb out]

Of course I support immigration. I'm an immigrant from America to Britain, so it'd be damned hypocritical for me to say it's bad.

Illegal immigration, though, just puts too much strain on the government, and of course should be stopped. It's not that difficult to come in legally.

Why?

When I walk down the street and see ugly graffiti everywhere that you can't even read, that's definatly one reason why. Many who arrive in our country can't speak the national language very well, if at all and as a result of this, can't get any job and end up on the dole. Many do not wish to assimulate, compounding the problem further. Yet another reason why. Or horrible music blaring out of stores and autos, is yet another reason why.

Furthermore, too much immigration, will, in the long run destroy the nation's and peoples culture - the core of it's identity. This is what happened to the Philistines and to the Romans. They ended up assimulating and accepting so much (though various methods) that they eventually lost there collective identity.

You must also remember that not everyone shares you point of view. There are reasonable arguements against immigration in general.

When I walk down the street and see ugly graffiti everywhere that you can't even read, that's definatly one reason why. Many who arrive in our country can't speak the national language very well, if at all and as a result of this, can't get any job and end up on the dole. Many do not wish to assimulate, compounding the problem further. Yet another reason why. Or horrible music blaring out of stores and autos, is yet another reason why.

Furthermore, too much immigration, will, in the long run destroy the nation's and peoples culture - the core of it's identity. This is what happened to the Philistines and to the Romans. They ended up assimulating and accepting so much (though various methods) that they eventually lost there collective identity.

You must also remember that not everyone shares you point of view. There are reasonable arguements against immigration in general.

So then ugly graffiti that you can understand or music that isn't horrible being blaring out of stores and autos is acceptable? I'm not sure what country you live in, but I live in the US and we don't have a national language. Perhaps your country should do the same?
Furthermore, they didn't lose their identity, it just changed.

I'm against immigration control because I don't want to have to tell my grandchildren I supported apartheid. You can shove your "collective identity" up your collective arses.

So then ugly graffiti that you can understand or music that isn't horrible being blaring out of stores and autos is acceptable? I'm not sure what country you live in, but I live in the US and we don't have a national language. Perhaps your country should do the same?
Furthermore, they didn't lose their identity, it just changed.

Change is an identity lose. If I was changed into a cat, I would no longer be human now, would I? The same holds true for nation - it's just on a larger scale. Too much change = identity lose.

It's also what I'm used to. The buttom line is, is that I do not like it and for myself, that is all that really matters.

Also, a comman language and heritage, as well as a strong cultural identity encourages order, unity and stability in any country. Values that I hold in extremely high regard. Diversity is simply not a priority for me. It is largely irrellevant

Change is an identity lose. If I was changed into a cat, I would no longer be human now, would I? The same holds true for nation - it's just on a larger scale. Too much change = identity lose.

It's also what I'm used to. The buttom line is, is that I do not like it and for myself, that is all that really matters.

Also, a comman language and heritage, as well as a strong cultural identity encourages order, unity and stability in any country. Values that I hold in extremely high regard. Diversity is simply not a priority for me. It is largely irrellevant

No, you'd be a cat, which one could argue is better. Not all identity losses are bad things.
Certainly for yourself, not liking it is all that really matters. However if your government decides to allow it, your not liking it could present a problem if you take action against your government, or immigrants.
That's fine. Personally, I don't view order, unity, or stability to be of high priority, diversity is more important.

Change is an identity lose. If I was changed into a cat, I would no longer be human now, would I? The same holds true for nation - it's just on a larger scale. Too much change = identity lose.

It's also what I'm used to. The buttom line is, is that I do not like it and for myself, that is all that really matters.

Also, a comman language and heritage, as well as a strong cultural identity encourages order, unity and stability in any country. Values that I hold in extremely high regard. Diversity is simply not a priority for me. It is largely irrellevant

Well, it takes all sorts, I suppose. Don't worry, I'm sure a nation committed to diversity will find a way to preserve your unique anti-diversity culture.

Too little change = stagnation and ossification. Look what happened to the Roman Empire.

Change is an identity lose. If I was changed into a cat, I would no longer be human now, would I? The same holds true for nation - it's just on a larger scale. Too much change = identity lose.

It's also what I'm used to. The buttom line is, is that I do not like it and for myself, that is all that really matters.

Also, a comman language and heritage, as well as a strong cultural identity encourages order, unity and stability in any country. Values that I hold in extremely high regard. Diversity is simply not a priority for me. It is largely irrellevant

Why does changing the race of a nation have to change the nation's cultural identity? It is perfectly possible for [polite, kind, gentle, well-mannered, well-dressed] Indians to adopt the customs, language and beliefs of the English, and vice-versa. "Diluting" the race is not necessarily the same as "diluting" the culture.

Change is an identity lose. If I was changed into a cat, I would no longer be human now, would I? The same holds true for nation - it's just on a larger scale. Too much change = identity lose.

It's also what I'm used to. The buttom line is, is that I do not like it and for myself, that is all that really matters.

Also, a comman language and heritage, as well as a strong cultural identity encourages order, unity and stability in any country. Values that I hold in extremely high regard. Diversity is simply not a priority for me. It is largely irrellevant

My country (Australia) has a diverse population. I'd say we have a fairly stable government. And if a culture doesn't evolve, it stagnates and falls into decline. I'd say that immigration good is a way of spreading new ideas and is therefore beneficial to a country.

However, I can see your point regarding too much change being a bad thing. Major changes should occur over a long period of time to allow society to adjust to it.

I'm fine with immigration, the people who choose to migrate through the legal channels are usually wealthy to begin with and are out to do better for themselves: Which is more than can be said for a lot of people who were born here.

Illegal immigration (which the press often seems to lump in with assylum seakers, for un-known reasons) is, as the name states, illegal: And I've got no problem with sending them home economy class. The same's true for assylum seakers, if their application is successful then welcome to Britain, otherwise it's a flight home, sorry lads.

No, you'd be a cat, which one could argue is better..

You can't argue that. No animal is "better" or "worse" than another. My studies of evolutionary biology has certainly tough me that. It's again, what you prefer that matters...

Not all identity losses are bad things...

Well, for the Phillistines and Romans, yes...it was a bad thing.

Certainly for yourself, not liking it is all that really matters.

That, and my reasons for doing so are logical.

However if your government decides to allow it, your not liking it could present a problem if you take action against your government, or immigrants..

It's called voting...

That's fine. Personally, I don't view order, unity, or stability to be of high priority, diversity is more important.

And I of course prefer the former. However, I fail to see why so many of younger generations are so "hang up" on diversity. It quite frankly seems to me like it was "packaged","marketed" and "sold" and the young being infinately maleable ate it all up like sheep at a feeding trough.

In the end I consider it so much brainwashing and PC crap.

You can't argue that. No animal is "better" or "worse" than another. My studies of evolutionary biology has certainly tough me that. It's again, what you prefer that matters...

{...}

And I of course prefer the former. However, I fail to see why so many of younger generations are so "hang up" on diversity. It quite frankly seems to me like it was "packaged","marketed" and "sold" and the young being infinately maleable ate it all up like sheep at a feeding trough.

In the end I consider it so much brainwashing and PC crap.

You've certainly got a lot to say about your own opinions, and how the only thing that matters to you is what you personally think. Fair enough. But for such an individualist, what makes you sure that your views are remotely representative of the rest of your society? If most other people are OK with diversity, then surely you, by opposing it, are the stand-out minority. Should you be segregated?

Diversity ==> Rock music + espresso coffee + Japanese fast food = good :D

If it weren't for immigration, we'd still be stuck with Forster & Allen, fish & chips & tea.

Hot damn!

[packs her bags & trundles off to Brisbane Airport to stand on the tarmac with her thumb out]

Ooohooohoooh! Wait for me to get up from Melbourne! I want to move to the UK too! *runs around packing things*

Oh... wait... I should probably wait until I finish University first.
And when I say 'finish' I mean 'get into and *then* finish*. Siiiiiiigh.


I disagree with the whole 'immigrants are lazy' stereotype. Seriously, every first generation immigrant I've ever met works almost completely around the clock, trying to carve out a living for them and their familes.

I also disagree with the 'all illegal immigration is always bad'. Sometimes some people *do* take priority over those at the front of the curretn que, and if a government won't let them in, I believe they sometimes have no choice but to seek an alternate way to flee their country. I guess those are technically 'asylum seekers', but here in Australia, our damn government has made the two terms synonimous (along with 'boat people' and 'refugees'. Seriously. They gave 'refugee' *negative* conontations. Grrr.)

I personally would much rather see the money being poured into 'border control' here in Aus going to overseas aid. If we help other countries develope past the "stoning people in the streets" stage, we won't have such huge influxes of refugees/illegal immigrants/etc.

But for such an individualist, what makes you sure that your views are remotely representative of the rest of your society?

Well, in answer to that, I simply don't care what "the rest of society thinks"...

And as one of my favorite villians once said, "I'm surrounded by idiots"

If most other people are OK with diversity, then surely you, by opposing it, are the stand-out minority. ?

You said the magic word..."if"...As for "standing out", the last I heard, you can't sense thoughts...Therefore I'm effectively "invisable".

Should you be segregated?

Refer to the above.

One of my best friends came to Australia as a refugee from former Yugoslavia. We met while studying law at university. She now gets better grades than I do & hopes to work for the UN when she completes her studies.

Yes, I can see how letting refugees in is bad. :p

But for such an individualist, what makes you sure that your views are remotely representative of the rest of your society?

Well, in answer to that, I simply don't care what "the rest of society thinks"...

And as one of my favorite villians once said, "I'm surrounded by idiots"

And yet you're worried about your culture being swamped? If you don't care what anyone else thinks, why do you care about your culture? You were banging on a moment ago about "shared" this and "common" that: "order, unity and stability" -- but now you're a proud loner? I know that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, but...

And yet you're worried about your culture being swamped? If you don't care what anyone else thinks, why do you care about your culture? You were banging on a moment ago about "shared" this and "common" that: "order, unity and stability" -- but now you're a proud loner? I know that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, but...

Proud loner? My, my, aren't we a tad melodramatic... I do have a number of friends, you see.

But no matter, I see no inconsistancy here. It is very possible to care for your culture and yet not care what anyone else thinks...well not exactly...I do care what others of like mind and views think. I would have thought that obvious to even the most casual reader of my posts...

But apparently I was mistaken in that regard. I can think as a I please and still hold my views regardless of what I feel about them. For example, a person can care about the state of the environment and still not care what other people think. This is possible because such a person might (like myself) be extremely self contained so that external veiws and opinions to not effect that person all that much. As I've said - Self Containment.

So you see, it is possible.

Read "The Camp of the Saints" by Jean Raspail, maybe it might change your mind about immigration.

One of my best friends came to Australia as a refugee from former Yugoslavia. We met while studying law at university. She now gets better grades than I do & hopes to work for the UN when she completes her studies.

Yes, I can see how letting refugees in is bad. :p


Immigration is okay, as long as it's the right kind of immigration.

Read "The Camp of the Saints" by Jean Raspail, maybe it might change your mind about immigration.

I've heard of it, but was this post directed at me?

I've heard of it, but was this post directed at me?


Directed at anybody who fails to recognize the inherent danger of rampant unchecked 3rd world immigration.



http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?thesociaSTORE:CKIE:prod1001+

Immigration is as good or bad as the immigrants in question.

People who are willing to work and assimilate are great. Third world trash who bring their third world traditions - like sacrificing animals, not speaking English, and stealing my car - are not.

Proud loner? My, my, aren't we a tad melodramatic... I do have a number of friends, you see.

But no matter, I see no inconsistancy here. It is very possible to care for your culture and yet not care what anyone else thinks...well not exactly...I do care what others of like mind and views think. I would have thought that obvious to even the most casual reader of my posts...

Right... so you only care about what people who think like you think. It renders debate kind of pointless, though. If you don't care, why do you feel it necessary to air your views here? Are you just in love with the sound of your own typing?

But apparently I was mistaken in that regard. I can think as a I please and still hold my views regardless of what I feel about them. For example, a person can care about the state of the environment and still not care what other people think. This is possible because such a person might (like myself) be extremely self contained so that external veiws and opinions to not effect that person all that much. As I've said - Self Containment.

So you see, it is possible.

Oh, sure, it's possible. Whether it's worthwhile is a different issue. Self-containment/closed-minded: tomAYto/tomAHto. However, the fundamental point here is: why worry that your "shared culture" is going to be swamped by immigrants, when it's just as likely to be swamped by a large family moving in next door who share your ethnic background but who hold generally different views? It's not a culture you've got there, it's an opinion. In my opinion.

Is it "diluting" the good, white population?

You are making the assumption that the native pop is white … sense you didn’t specify the country really a hard assumption to make (hell look at the tropical “paradises” getting over run by “White” people … )

Just figured I would put my 2 cents in