NationStates Jolt Archive

The Teachers Unions in this country are leading us down a disasterous road of ignorance and stupidity. Take away the teachers unions, fire the inept teachers, set up a hiring system based on merit, and pay the teachers wages between 60-70 thousand dollars a year.

First of all, teachers unions are protecting teachers that slack at their jobs and use delaying tactics to prevent the government from correcting and advancing our education system.
The inept teachers MUST go! You cant get intelligent, hard-working teachers that are being paid a $30,000 salary. All the schools get are lazy teachers that dont teach the students the current and correct curriculums.

By paying teachers $60,000/year and hiring teachers that students feel comfortable with and that teach in efficent and helpful ways will make the modern american more intelligent and more useful to society. FIRE INEPT TEACHERS! You cant let the teachers unions protect idiots and senile fools that dont teach, just ramble on while the students slack off. LEAD BY EXAMPLE!

The dumb american stereotype is horrible, but it is true all too often. Fix the education system and civil rights will improve, buisness will improve, military will improve, politics will improve... etc... Everything will improve because smarter americans will be in charge. Get rid of teachers unions and hire intelligent people that dont slack for fear of being fired- Like everyone else.

So are they going to stuff 60 per teacher while they wait for more to come through the system?

Eliminate the union and replace it with a government operated council. Fire inept teachers. Take money out of the bloated american military to pay them so they can make being a teacher an attractive job. Problem solved.

It Lives!!!

http://www.uspressnews.com/articles/1178


Education Secretary Calls Teachers Union "Terrorist Group"
Terrorists Cry Foul
US Press Staff
02/23/2004

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Education Secretary Rod Paige today called the National Education Association a "terrorist group" but later apologized for the remark saying that it was insensitive to well-meaning terrorists everywhere.
"To equate American teachers to terrorists was an unfortunate choice of words on my part," said Paige in a written statement. "Terrorists the world over are known for their ability to inspire children to do incredible things and to put them in the same category as our lazy, selfish, do nothing teachers and their union was wrong. I am sorry."

The Paige statement went on to list some of the accomplishments that terrorist groups have been able to coax from their children.

"The commitment they get out of their students is increasingly impressive. Terrorist
"It boggles the mind, even one as tiny as mine."
groups are consistently emboldening their youth with results driven training and stern classroom discipline. By giving kids seemingly unobtainable goals such as simultaneous suicide bus attacks, they are challenging them to learn the basics of chemistry, the logistics of traffic planning and the value of teamwork. If any of these kids lived, their groups would be major world powers."

The statement goes on to suggest bold new methods of teaching that may be applied to the terrible American students who are causing their own schools to fail under the No Child Left Behind Act.

"Some terrorist groups take great pride in removing young girls from their family home and, in the spirit of competition, encouraging them to have as much sex for as much money as possible. The amazing return in productivity that Amnesty International claims the terrorist groups are getting from these young people boggles the mind. If they can inspire their students to do these amazing things, then we should be able to teach a little math and science. Of course, I'm not suggesting that we turn our children into sex slaves, but if we took them from the home, chained them in the basements of their ever decaying schools and gave them a scoop of rice for every multiplication table they memorized, our schools' test scores would almost assuredly go up."

Phone calls to Paige's office were forwarded to White House staff who said Paige was unavailable as he "had done enough for the Bush re-election campaign for one day."

Eliminate the union and replace it with a government operated council. Fire inept teachers. Take money out of the bloated american military to pay them so they can make being a teacher an attractive job. Problem solved.

bingo. absolutely my point.

Of course, the government is trying to "improve" things by coming up with testing that any joe-blow off the street could teach for, instead of hiring better teachers. Now, even the good teachers can't really teach kids to think, they can only teach enough so that the kids can pass a stupid test.

Of course, the government is trying to "improve" things by coming up with testing that any joe-blow off the street could teach for, instead of hiring better teachers. Now, even the good teachers can't really teach kids to think, they can only teach enough so that the kids can pass a stupid test.
the government isnt doing anything yet, but they should really get cracking. I think a good game plan is to...

1. Train thousands of intelligent and efficient teachers that are ready to be paid at 60,000 bucks.
2. Purge the school system of the inept teachers and install the good teachers.
3. When the teacher's union erupts in protest, ban the teacher's union. Pull the same thing reagan did with the airport people.
4. ofcourse you cant do this all at once, but start state by state. this education system NEEDS reform.

Eliminate the union and replace it with a government operated council. Fire inept teachers. Take money out of the bloated american military to pay them so they can make being a teacher an attractive job. Problem solved.


How about setting up a parent operated council in each state, since the parents know more of what's going on with the kids then any government agency ever did. Government only messes things up for the worse. Yes, cut unnecessary programs to give teachers somewhat better wages.

How about setting up a parent operated council in each state, since the parents know more of what's going on with the kids then any government agency ever did. Government only messes things up for the worse. Yes, cut unnecessary programs to give teachers somewhat better wages.
personally, i believe that the parents cant be trusted to give kids a good education. a buisness-minded government council would provide incentive for teachers to be effcient and do their job well. if they dont, then fire them. I dont see why teachers should be exempt from the hardships of compatetive buisness. (sorry its late for me, and my spelling and grammer are going down the drain).

Illegal Immigrants cost the USA about 100-150 billion more per year than they contribute to the nation.

Deport them all and

1) We save money
2) Schools won't have to accept the illegals anymore (Under current law illegals and the children of illegals cannot be denied enrollment in schools)
3) Class sizes will shrink allowing for a better quality education.

How about setting up a parent operated council in each state, since the parents know more of what's going on with the kids then any government agency ever did. Government only messes things up for the worse. Yes, cut unnecessary programs to give teachers somewhat better wages.
Parents would do the same as a union. They would constantly be bitching about how their children wouldn't get a good enough education and demand more and more money. It would turn into a second union. It requires the government to survey it and keep it in retrspect to the needs of the rest of the services.

Deporting illegal immigrants means you are losing a large amount of potential working citizens.

I agree with deportation of illegals and tightening the bounderies around the US, but i also think that you should send the immigrants back with money and help. dont leave them cold back at their country.

stay on topic plz.

I agree with deportation of illegals and tightening the bounderies around the US, but i also think that you should send the immigrants back with money and help. dont leave them cold back at their country.

stay on topic plz.


Let's give all our money to them while Americans go hungry and homeless.

You must be like Bush, a "compassionate conservative", compassionate for everybody except your own people!

personally, i believe that the parents cant be trusted to give kids a good education. a buisness-minded government council would provide incentive for teachers to be effcient and do their job well. if they dont, then fire them. I dont see why teachers should be exempt from the hardships of compatetive buisness. (sorry its late for me, and my spelling and grammer are going down the drain).

You are SO correct.

"I don't want my child leaning that God hating Evilution!"

"Proved by irrefutable statistics that our land frontiers had cracked open in the United States and Europe and that these people were entering our countries by the tens of millions in an irreversible stream- when the slow, cancerous progress of compassion, which is only a misleading and lethal form of charity duly laid siege to the western conscience- when it finally became apparent that in the future the denial of the essential and basic human differences would work solely to the detriment of our own integrity- then, at last, people began to understand what I had tried to express. I, the accursed writer, was transformed into a prophetic writer." (314)


Jean Raspail author "The Camp of the Saints"


The above quote, more than anything else, sums up what is wrong with the USA today. Our borders only exist on maps, only exist in theory, they are meaningless. Our borders are violated to such a degree they don't even exist.

What standards will be used to determine which teachers are effective and which teachers aren't?

The ability for a teacher to cover the curriculum properly and in a manner that is can be received easily. Grading someone on their students' success is too chancey so teachers should be tested without warning and in a secretive manner on a regular basis on their performance and progress.

Damn, we can't be trusted to educate our children.. we aren't fit to raise them and all studies show that the children in the system.. such as child protective services etc.. have such a better time then with their own stable family.. yup, don't trust those parents! :rolleyes:

So.... you're actually making 2 separate points.

One is that Teacher's Unions protect lazy/inept/incompetent teachers from losing their jobs.

The other is that teachers need to get paid more to attract better teachers.

I wholeheartedly agree with the 2nd point. If teachers were paid more as a starting salary, then they would attract better teachers. Especially in the sciences and math. BUT.... Teacher Unions are not against this idea either. It's the unions that bargain with school districts for more money. I don't see the government jumping to give teachers more money.

As to your 1st point, that's partially true, and will be true for all unions. However, given that the school districts and government aren't perfect, unions are needed to support teachers. Unions negotiate salaries, class sizes, working hours, time off, which districts/schools have a tendency to violate. Without the union and some method of enforcement, teachers would be worse off.

Yes, it would be ideal that every teacher was in it entirely to teach the next generation and to improve the educational system. So make it a competitive job in the economy, rather than a last resort of some people.

What standards will be used to determine which teachers are effective and which teachers aren't?

Well... California already has standards in place. First for Teacher credentialing programs (TPEs), and I believe you can see the teacher standards below:
http://www.sfsu.edu/~seconded/castandards_graphicrep1.html

Abolishing the teachers union will not solve the problem. It is multifaceted.

Income is a huge factor in drawing "intelligent" teachers. Schools don't pay enough and many opt for industry.

An often overlooked problem area is the districts themselves. They (IMHO) are money sink holes. For example, one Junior College district has a multimillion dollar computer setup that does nothing significant. It has 6 people that run it. All at manager levels. They spend a great deal of time traveling the country for seminars.

Yet, this district asked a school to cut back their computer classes.

Now the unions are far from perfect. One Junior college spent a 1.5 million to fire a biology teacher. Why? Biotech had just started to explode and yet he was still teaching from a Watson era textbook. He refused to update his knowledge. He had 10-year. The unions faught heavily.

I agree with uping the salaries but I am not sure abolishing the unions are the right thing. The fact a union was set up shows the management can't be trusted.

Unions are the result of a failure of managment. A properly managed setup does not need a union(exception: trade unions. Electicians, etc.).

One of would offer would be certification to keep 10 year. A teacher should not be allowed to get lazy once they achieve 10 year.

Rework the district managment then rework the unions. If you are to butcher the unions, they tend to accept things easier if they see managment got slaughtered. Not my opinion. This was the comment I heard a downsizing expert. He was an interesting guy. He said his favorite person to fire were vice-presidents and directors. It was their choices that lead to the company to destruction and all to often they are not held responsible for their actions.

Vouchers.... Make the teachers earn their pay. It's an easy solution, but teachers hate it because they become accountable

One of would offer would be certification to keep 10 year. A teacher should not be allowed to get lazy once they achieve 10 year.


PLEASE tell me this is a parody of tenure. 10 years is a veteran teacher. You can get tenure in as little as 2 years in some school districts.

Vouchers.... Make the teachers earn their pay. It's an easy solution, but teachers hate it because they become accountable

How do vouchers lead to teacher accountability? And teachers (via their schools) are already held quite accountable via the No Child Left Behind Act.

Vouchers wouldn't lead to more talented and dedicated teachers entering the teaching profession.

More respect, more money, and better classroom environments (like class sizes and school support) will lead to better teachers. And honestly, in the current school systems, it's basically the unions that fight for all of that.

PLEASE tell me this is a parody of tenure. 10 years is a veteran teacher. You can get tenure in as little as 2 years in some school districts.

Some one is awake tonight. :)

I sometimes make rather retarded jokes! ;)

Damn, we can't be trusted to educate our children.. we aren't fit to raise them and all studies show that the children in the system.. such as child protective services etc.. have such a better time then with their own stable family.. yup, don't trust those parents! :rolleyes:

Not every parent has a PhD! ;)

The problem in this country is that many parents are fully involed with the children and their homework. My mom had that failing. She never policed us and I am one who gets rather bored if something isn't challenging. Her solution was to toss me into Catholic school. The Nuns cracking the whip made a huge difference! *shudders at the flashbacks* ;)

You get into the hard core Relgious areas and parents would start censoring subject material, novels, science.

So there is reason to be concerned over what is picked for a corsework.

A strong society teaches it's children a well rounded education.

Some one is awake tonight. :)

I sometimes make rather retarded jokes! ;)

I was scared you might actually mean it. Logically it should be "two-ure" :p

Tenure can be a touchy subject. What happens to teachers that don't want to teach anymore but haven't reached retirement age? But they're a bit too old and tired to go back and try anything new. Plus they may not have degrees or specialties in anything specific. Should they be allowed to persist, even if they don't really contribute anything?

Usually teachers don't negatively affect students by being passive (I think). And given the lack of teachers in many areas, a warm body that knows the subject matter by heart may be needed. Sad but true.

Not every parent has a PhD! ;)

The problem in this country is that many parents are fully involed with the children and their homework. My mom had that failing. She never policed us and I am one who gets rather bored if something isn't challenging. Her solution was to toss me into Catholic school. The Nuns cracking the whip made a huge difference! *shudders at the flashbacks* ;)

You get into the hard core Relgious areas and parents would start censoring subject material, novels, science.

So there is reason to be concerned over what is picked for a corsework.

A strong society teaches it's children a well rounded education.


Eh, my brother's problem is my mom gets...too involved. She practically does the kid's homework. Which sounds cool and all, but then he gets to class and doesn't know squat.

I was scared you might actually mean it. Logically it should be "two-ure" :p

Tenure can be a touchy subject. What happens to teachers that don't want to teach anymore but haven't reached retirement age? But they're a bit too old and tired to go back and try anything new. Plus they may not have degrees or specialties in anything specific. Should they be allowed to persist, even if they don't really contribute anything?

Usually teachers don't negatively affect students by being passive (I think). And given the lack of teachers in many areas, a warm body that knows the subject matter by heart may be needed. Sad but true.

That was this guys problem that and he was an arrogant SOB. The college offered to pay for training but he was above that. They only decided to spend the money when local companies contacted the President and the Chancellor and told them that they would black list any student from that schools as they felt their education was weak at best.

Eh, my brother's problem is my mom gets...too involved. She practically does the kid's homework. Which sounds cool and all, but then he gets to class and doesn't know squat.

Wellllll,

I should have suggested that scenerio as well. It does happen all the time. Especially with science fairs. Some projects are just so well crafted you can tell the kid had little or no involvment. ;)

Eh, my brother's problem is my mom gets...too involved. She practically does the kid's homework. Which sounds cool and all, but then he gets to class and doesn't know squat.

Well in the end it's up to the kid to succeed on their own. There are so many tests where the parent can't be there to take it for them that it'll catch up eventually. And I think the teacher might notice the difference in quality between in-school work and hw.

Wellllll,

I should have suggested that scenerio as well. It does happen all the time. Especially with science fairs. Some projects are just so well crafted you can tell the kid had little or no involvment. ;)
Which is made all the sweeter when you kick their ass despite them having done it in their primary language and with heaps of parent involvement.

The problem in this country is that many parents are fully involed with the children and their homework. My mom had that failing. She never policed us and I am one who gets rather bored if something isn't challenging.
That's a good thing. Look at all the kids at the top of the class 9 times out of 10 it's because their parents push them. Those kids usually will probably become professionals. Kids with little parental involvement usually fall behind unless they have a lot of initiative. It sucks being near the top of the class, things get so boring so quickly, that combined with having no reason to do anything other than my pride and desire.

There is a problem in parents being over-involved though. It's funny to see kids do really nice projects that show they learned a lot, then do badly on a test because their parents did it for them.