NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, maybe the bible isn't the work of satan.... but just think about it:

It's said that the devil's greatest achievement is that people don't believe he exists. So wouldn't satan attempt to convert as many innocent people as possible by appending a short volume (New Testament) onto the end of a longer volume (Old Testament.) Let's say god really is an old testament god, and that satan inspired all those who penned the New Testament, and manifested himself as Jesus to convert people. After all, Christianity, like any other religion has supported its fair share of violence and oppresion in the past. Why can't that be satan's work?

Anyway, what do all you think?

I think that people who beleive in Satan are as loonie as some Christians. :D

Well, maybe the bible isn't the work of satan.... but just think about it:

It's said that the devil's greatest achievement is that people don't believe he exists. So wouldn't satan attempt to convert as many innocent people as possible by appending a short volume (New Testament) onto the end of a longer volume (Old Testament.) Let's say god really is an old testament god, and that satan inspired all those who penned the New Testament, and manifested himself as Jesus to convert people. After all, Christianity, like any other religion has supported its fair share of violence and oppresion in the past. Why can't that be satan's work?

Anyway, what do all you think?
:D I ones threw that into a xtian discussion on MSN. They forgot to turn the other cheek and "love" me like they love themselves. Hilariouse!!!! :D

i have yet to hear anybody make a convincing argument as to why we shouldn't assume the Bible was written by Satan. Or, alternatively, why the God described in the Bible should be worshipped, even if He did create humanity. He could still be an utter bastard, if you pardon the language, and just because He created us doesn't mean we necessarily should worship Him.

Don't you see? Satan is just a way to get you rebels to at least acknowledge God.

You know it would be kinda funny if that were true, I mean if you think about the facts. In the Old Testament there was an angry vengeful god that you should fear, new testament all of a sudden god loves you O_o lack of consistancy, I think so.

Note: this is directed at the origional post

Don't you see? Satan is just a way to get you rebels to at least acknowledge God.

actually, to me the entire concept of Satan proves how worthless the typical idea of God is. to borrow a phrase from Herman Hesse, i would have much more respect for "a God that contains the devil too and in front of which you needn't close your eyes when the most natural things in the world take place."

hmm this is my first post so forgive me if i sound new....because i am :-P


anyways i study theology and other such things, and i plan on having a career in ministry so ya just wanted to tell you i have some credibility...also you can be an ass but honestly i don't care, your opinion is your opinion not mine

alrighty, your arguement has a couple holes, first its Satan's real goal is to get you to turn away from God. The quote you said is when a Christian will think hes not there and lose some of their connection with God while they follow trivial leads

also, if those who did write the new testament were satan inspired, they did one crappy job of it :-P they bash satan and pretty much make him out to be what we commonly consider evil, manipulative and such. Also they are very clear about satan's presence in your life. So if you were gonna write some proganda why would you bash yourself?

I do have to agree with you that some Chrisitans are loonies though, we are more often than not trying to make saints outta each other than trying to love one another as we were instructed and its kinda lame really but theres nothing i can do about it except go into ministry myself and try to get us back the real meaning of the Bible and try to burn away some of the contempt that has been built up by previous Christians, because first the most part Christians are biggots...

alrighty you said something about Christians supporting violence....now old testament thats more than true, new testaments its harder to believe.....but if you look at most of this violence it mostly comes outta the Church when they were not working within with boundries of the Bible, for instance the Inquistions of the Catholic church, i don't believe theres a spot in the Bible where it tells you to kill and jail those who second guess the Church, i would say that it almost supports it. Look at Jesus.

alirghty well now i am on a diffrent topic....

well take it easy guys

I find Christians very hypocritical anyway, they change there fundamental issues to fit with the times, just look at issue of homosexuality. However the people which are more hypocritical than the Christians are the atheists who celebrate Christmas. For Terra's sake guys just get in a boat, stop bobing up and down in the river!!!

also, if those who did write the new testament were satan inspired, they did one crappy job of it :-P they bash satan and pretty much make him out to be what we commonly consider evil, manipulative and such. Also they are very clear about satan's presence in your life. So if you were gonna write some proganda why would you bash yourself?

I do have to agree with you that some Chrisitans are loonies though, we are more often than not trying to make saints outta each other than trying to love one another as we were instructed and its kinda lame really but theres nothing i can do about it except go into ministry myself and try to get us back the real meaning of the Bible and try to burn away some of the contempt that has been built up by previous Christians, because first the most part Christians are biggots...


1) reverse psycology.

2) You are absolutely right, and good luck with your mission to restore some sanity.

On Satan- (This assumes Christianity is a myth as religious evolution is useless if the religion is true)

Christianity is almost borderline Dualist in its philosophy. Back before the new testament, the closest analogue to Satan was Azrael, Angel of Death. Then came the book of Job, later on in the old testament, where Satan first appears.

Skip ahead a thousand years or so- by now, Satan is the anti-God. He opposes him, but is weaker. Eventually the misguided souls under him will be crushed.

Skip ahead 2000 years- Satan is now almost equal to the Lord in most people's minds, especially if I may say in Southern Baptists (as a generalization) [Though not agknowledged, many people attribute Godlike powers to Satan. Most people have never thought of him as anything less than that]- Satan pulls all of the "bad" things that you don't want to blame on God.

Within another 2000 years, I am sure Satan and God will be opposite sides of the coin like Yin and Yang. Religious evolution is fascinating...

My reasoning?

Naturally, the entire reason Satan exists in the first place is that bad things happen and people don't want to blame them on God. Your friend dies? Should you blame God, since he did it? No, Teh D3v1l D1D 1T!!!!111111!!!!11!!!

That lightens theological pressure and makes it easier to worship God as an unthinking person of the masses.

If I can conjecture, Satan will continue to follow the easiest route, which is to have him take over all bad things and make the Lord the lord of all good things.

So, in conclusion, it depends on if we're using Azrael, OTSatan, NTSatan, ModernSatan, or DualismSatan for authorship. In order, No, No, Probably Not, Maybe, Yes If The Bible Is Partly Evil.

Why would 'god' have human beings write several books, why would 'god' have any book written, there's no logic to it. Religious books are full of conradictions, illogical explanations and regurgitated stories, many of which can be found in Sumerian text, which is the the first recorded human civilisation, carbon dated to 6,000 bc, which is long before religion was thought up.

Sumerians wrote about a big flood (noahs ark) and other 'religious' stories like adam and eve. There is interesting information in their text. The Sumerians constantly write about flying celestial objects (ufo's) and yet mainstream science dissmiss hundreds of these ancient texts about ufo's as myth. Why would a human 8,000 years ago write about ufo's, for no reason???

A more logical interpretation of religious books, like the bible would be that Adam and Eve were genetically enhanced homo-erectus (half man half ape). Genetically modified by extra-terrestrials to make them more intelligent and allow them to learn language. This is a logical explanation and was wrote 8,000 years ago by humans in the first recorded human civilisation, there's so much information to back this up, yet the mainstream media either ignores it or gives an illogical reason for the undeniable evidence.

Religious people dont have any perspective, if they did they would start researching history to find out the facts.

A more logical interpretation of religious books, like the bible would be that Adam and Eve were genetically enhanced homo-erectus (half man half ape). Genetically modified by extra-terrestrials to make them more intelligent and allow them to learn language. This is a logical explanation and was wrote 8,000 years ago by humans in the first recorded human civilisation, there's so much information to back this up, yet the mainstream media either ignores it or gives an illogical reason for the undeniable evidence.

Raelian Intelligent Design?

Also, you do realize that Homo Erectus was by no means the closest ancestor to Homo Sapien Sapiens... Anyhow, back on topic.

Scientologist I think...

*smirks*

Man only made religion so that he could further worship himself.

That is an irrelevant fact, it doesn't matter what the name was, sumerian text writes about a half man, half ape being genetically enhanced.
I just thought the previous human species was a homo-erectus...

And no im not a raelian, dont be so ignorant this is ancient text im talking about, which can only be translated by 200 people in the whole world.

Anyway, what do all you think?
As much as I am an athiest, I found this... unbelievable.

you're right on the thing that Christians are hypocritical, thats a given

however on the homosexuality Christians used to murder them, now we just shun them both being wrong, we should embrace them into our faith

alrighty on to the guy with satan thing, alrighty

techincally Satan was in Genisis when the serpent gave the knowledge of the tree of knowledge and that God's holding back, it would be safe to assume that every book in the Bible has some mention of a satanic refrence in either a static or personified form. Satan is just as static as God in a sense

also wouldn't you all be contradicting yourself when you say that the Bible doesn't exist because Satan created it or it was a work, is that what satan is shooting for :-P

also satan doesn't have any real physical power of people, he just gets in their mind, so blaming your friends death on satan is kinda dumb too, it was God who did it, and basically he allowed him/her to die. Satan's only objective is to get you to turn away from God, and you blaming your hurt on God is one way that is accomplished

ok now on to Gibaltar, i would like to see this proof and stuff....i haven't heard anything about that (not trying to be an ass, i am just curious), also i have read the Bible several times and i have yet to find a contradiction, also God has humans write it because God left the world when Adam and Eve messed up, so its kinda hard to write something while you are not there, so he has humans write it that actually have hands, and techincally it wasn't first written it was all orally passed one geneartion to the other, so God did write it, because its all history the Bible is, and the laws and stuff were given to Moses in visions and such

That is an irrelevant fact, it doesn't matter what the name was, sumerian text writes about a half man, half ape being genetically enhanced.
I just thought the previous human species was a homo-erectus...

And no im not a raelian, dont be so ignorant this is ancient text im talking about, which can only be translated by 200 people in the whole world.

Really? Amazing how you don't cite whatsoever.

No, it wasn't. Cro-Magnon, for one, is much closer.

Your religion is almost the same as Raelianism, except that you claim secret knowledge from a text that almost nobody can translate that you haven't cited or even proven that it exists. The similarities are striking.

As another Atheist, I find that if Satan and God existed, this scenario could be likely under ModernSatan and DualismSatan. Not much else explains God's change of heart so well without breaking internal consistancy. I prefer, though, to just say it was written by mortals and their view of God changes, not whoever God is if he exists.

the Bible also describes the half ape half human giants....

they have some name and since i am not an old testament scholar i can't really help you out on the details but theres not much refrence made to him but refrence none the less

alrighty i used to be an atheist too :-P and then i was 'corrupted' i guess oh well i am much happier in my life now that i have answers :-P

Gib-

The Illuminati believe in the same....


GIBRALTAR IS PART OF THE ILLUMINATI!!!!!!

however on the homosexuality Christians used to murder them, now we just shun them both being wrong, we should embrace them into our faith

The Christians also killed Native Indians by the dozen, they persecuted women for outrageous characters of heresy and being a witch, they killed Jews, pagans and heretics during the Spanish Inquisition; they killed plenty of Muslims during the crusades and they killed each other... and now, you still shun them because they aren't Christians, even if it doesn't seem to happen directly.

I beleive in a spiritual creater call it 'god', mother nature, it doesn't matter. What i and anyone with commonsense cant possibly beleive though, is that 'god' had any book wrote and how if you have sex before marriage you'll rot in hell. What is more logical though, is that all references to a 'god' or 'gods' were actually a referance to extra-terrestrials, there's a lot of evidence to back this up.

I can understand though how uneduacted humans, thousands of years ago could have thought that extra-terrestrials were special.
Anyone who has the intelligence to build space craft which can travel at light speed accross solar systems has to be extremely intelligent and seem 'godly'.

you're right on the thing that Christians are hypocritical, thats a given

however on the homosexuality Christians used to murder them, now we just shun them both being wrong, we should embrace them into our faith

alrighty on to the guy with satan thing, alrighty

techincally Satan was in Genisis when the serpent gave the knowledge of the tree of knowledge and that God's holding back, it would be safe to assume that every book in the Bible has some mention of a satanic refrence in either a static or personified form. Satan is just as static as God in a sense

also wouldn't you all be contradicting yourself when you say that the Bible doesn't exist because Satan created it or it was a work, is that what satan is shooting for :-P

also satan doesn't have any real physical power of people, he just gets in their mind, so blaming your friends death on satan is kinda dumb too, it was God who did it, and basically he allowed him/her to die. Satan's only objective is to get you to turn away from God, and you blaming your hurt on God is one way that is accomplished

ok now on to Gibaltar, i would like to see this proof and stuff....i haven't heard anything about that (not trying to be an ass, i am just curious), also i have read the Bible several times and i have yet to find a contradiction, also God has humans write it because God left the world when Adam and Eve messed up, so its kinda hard to write something while you are not there, so he has humans write it that actually have hands, and techincally it wasn't first written it was all orally passed one geneartion to the other, so God did write it, because its all history the Bible is, and the laws and stuff were given to Moses in visions and such
Yes.

Yes.

Lessee...

Just like changing Sheol to Hell in the Old Testament, the idea that the serpent that tempted Eve was Satan was retroactively added into the bible. (Sheol, if you didn't know, is an underground place where everyone goes when they die. Everyone is aparat from God no matter what. Like a purgatory with no heaven or hell. Later, in the NT, this eventually changed to Hell, so they had to change all Sheol references in the bible to Hell to maintain consistancy.)

Mostly. But this is conjecture, not a real religious explanation.

Ah, but many people do? How many people bless God for kindness but don't blame him for bad happenings? Most people prefer not to Blame God and I argue that Satan serves that purpose well enough to eventually make him the opposite of God- that would be a much easier religion to worship (blame one guy, love to other), and like explosions, religions always follow the path of the most worshippers. (Look at the then-nonexistant Saints and the day of the sabbath when the early church wanted to convert sun-worshipping polytheists...)

techincally Satan was in Genisis when the serpent gave the knowledge of the tree of knowledge and that God's holding back, it would be safe to assume that every book in the Bible has some mention of a satanic refrence in either a static or personified form. Satan is just as static as God in a sense

LOL!!!
'Technically'
You are not too bright if that is your 'reasoning'.
Ok i got some knowledge for you.
'Technically', the Christain old testament is to fact what Farenhiet 911 is to documentary. The Xtian old testament has so much edited form the original Jewish texts and oral traditions.

NO where is satan, the serpent, Ha-satan (in job. note not SATAN), or any of those other bad people ever related. IN fact the mentiona of hell in the gospels aren ot even made by jesus, but are later interpretations. Hell is Gehanna which was a literal place where they burned bodies.

WHY DO I BOTHER? People never change their mind even if face to face with facts

the Bible also describes the half ape half human giants....

they have some name and since i am not an old testament scholar i can't really help you out on the details but theres not much refrence made to him but refrence none the less

alrighty i used to be an atheist too :-P and then i was 'corrupted' i guess oh well i am much happier in my life now that i have answers :-P

Gib-

The Illuminati believe in the same....


GIBRALTAR IS PART OF THE ILLUMINATI!!!!!!

You mean the Nephilem, which are commonly reguarded as giants, not man-apes. Nephilem are supposedly 40 feet tall, but any sort of human that tall would be almost unable to move due to proportions of weigh and height.

I've never heard the man-ape interpretation.

once again i am going to mention i am not a old testament scholar and basically reading the old testament is about as much fun as getting a root canal for the most part, i am not a fan of genelogy and someone begotting another is not my cup of tea, although there is alot of stuff in it and while i am studying theology for Ministry your best bet for evangelism comes out the NT anyways so i usually study that

anyways i looked up in my notes on the 40 foot beasts and you're right the whole man ape thing....no where eluded too

however where i do get the man ape thing is from Neanderthals (i had to go back to my notes for this too :-P) anyways Neanderthals existed at the same time as humans and basicallly they were very intelligent and made tools clothes ect. cave paintings as well as burial of the dead, they however burnt out

now i am kinda interested in that whole changing aspect...i have a friend who can read greek/hebrew/arabic and all those other things, i oughtta have himi read the dead sea scrolls becase they will indefinatley say those things

also if thats the case that Christians changed things, why is the Orthodox Jewish Torah the same? so did Jews and Christians conspire together to change the Bible? :-P

also what you said on people blaming God....most people outside of serious faith do that kinda thing, basically God owes me nothing, i am the one who screwed up our relationship the first time i sinned, when people blame their suffering on Satan the only thing that they can truly blame anything on is the fact that he corrupts our mind and causes us to sin, therefore ruining our perfect relationship with God, Satan doesn't directly cause hurt in the world, people do

sorry for the double post....

alrighty, well someone said about Hell not existing

well I never said Hell is some place that the devil sits around with a pitchfork and demons and such

Hell is merely the eterenal seperation of God and human,

Heaven being the perfect union of God and human

the Heaven/Hell complex is better suported in the Old Testament than the new because theres almost no refrence, just illusions too (exception being Revelations....which i don't even begin to try and to interpet)

once again i am going to mention i am not a old testament scholar and basically reading the old testament is about as much fun as getting a root canal for the most part, i am not a fan of genelogy and someone begotting another is not my cup of tea, although there is alot of stuff in it and while i am studying theology for Ministry your best bet for evangelism comes out the NT anyways so i usually study that

anyways i looked up in my notes on the 40 foot beasts and you're right the whole man ape thing....no where eluded too

however where i do get the man ape thing is from Neanderthals (i had to go back to my notes for this too :-P) anyways Neanderthals existed at the same time as humans and basicallly they were very intelligent and made tools clothes ect. cave paintings as well as burial of the dead, they however burnt out

now i am kinda interested in that whole changing aspect...i have a friend who can read greek/hebrew/arabic and all those other things, i oughtta have himi read the dead sea scrolls becase they will indefinatley say those things

also if thats the case that Christians changed things, why is the Orthodox Jewish Torah the same? so did Jews and Christians conspire together to change the Bible? :-P

also what you said on people blaming God....most people outside of serious faith do that kinda thing, basically God owes me nothing, i am the one who screwed up our relationship the first time i sinned, when people blame their suffering on Satan the only thing that they can truly blame anything on is the fact that he corrupts our mind and causes us to sin, therefore ruining our perfect relationship with God, Satan doesn't directly cause hurt in the world, people do

1. Yeah- you'd think the Hebrews knew to draw a family tree instead of the begots.... ;)

2. I thought as much, but you never know...

3. Yes. Neanderthals were supposedly rather intelligent as compared to Cro-Magnons, though more thick and massive (which probably was what confused people for so long.)

4. What ever became of the Dead Sea Scrolls anyhow? I heard that they weren't released originally because they proved Jesus was a fictional character, but now that conspiracy theory seems to have evaporated. Have they been released yet?

5. Jews and Christians originally were the same- obviously the major split only came after Jesus, and the concept of Hell was already there by then. Naturally to maintain Internal Consistancy Sheol would have to be edited in all translations. Or at least the meaning of Sheol, the word Hell wouldn't come for much time after Jesus.

6. Yes. But who really blames God? Most non-fundamentalist religious people just shrug and take it when something bad happens. Does it ever occur to them that it's God doing it? Naturally, this thought causes the brain to shut off to avoid thinking. For more thoughtful or fundamentalist persons, it either revolves down to God does bad things to me or Satan is doing the bad things to me but God loves me. It's easy to see which one is more likely to be picked.

i thought they had been released hmmm, i thought they are on display or something who knows i gotta look it up

i think its more of a conspiracy theory anyways, all it is a parts (or all) of the Old Testament, besides if thats the case they found them in primairly Islamist area why wouldn't they release them and make every Christian look like an ass?

haha i actaully knew a guy who drew out the family tree for the Old Testament....

ok and back to this stuff
Later, in the NT, this eventually changed to Hell, so they had to change all Sheol references in the bible to Hell to maintain consistancy.

techincally you contradict yourself there you said they had already believed that Hell was there before Jesus came...maybe i just misunderstood you


alright God doesn't do bad stuff to us, we do bad stuff to ourselves and he allows us to do it because we have the free will

I beleive in a spiritual creater call it 'god', mother nature, it doesn't matter. What i and anyone with commonsense cant possibly beleive though, is that 'god' had any book wrote and how if you have sex before marriage you'll rot in hell. What is more logical though, is that all references to a 'god' or 'gods' were actually a referance to extra-terrestrials, there's a lot of evidence to back this up.

I know a source for this. Lord Of Light by Roger Zelazny.

You probably read the works by great seer Arthur C. too right?

The Illuminati believe in the same....


GIBRALTAR IS PART OF THE ILLUMINATI!!!!!!
What do the Illuminati have to do with this?

Some facts to back up the extra-terrestrial theory:

# In the bible code, it states that our intelligent DNA, arrived in a celestial vehicle (ufo). The bible code was confirmed by the CIA as an actual code and not coincidental letters joining up to make sense! The code is held in the first ever religious book (old testament) and was cracked by an israeli mathmatician using a computer.

# Pictures taken from a NASA satelite orbiting mars, shows GLASS TUNNELS ON MARS, clearly an unnatural formation, i dont remember humans building them. website address; www.enterprisemission.com/samp5.htm
- incidently the website is run by a former NASA scientist who accused NASA of covering up cerain photos and information from satelites.

# A face, pyramids and rectangular structures all miles wide and all gemotrically aligned! www.enterprisemission.com/mars/papers_1.php?page=paper1

# Also plenty more pictures of'unnatural formations and mechanical junk on mars. pictures taken by NASA rovers, spirit and opportunity. www.enterprisemission.com, scroll down, there are loads of links.

# A fact, on average, once every 3 minutes somebody reports seeing a UFO to official phone records. Only 1% of the cases can be explained by a natural event or a known phenomonon and they are just the calls recorded.

# Hundreds of Skulls have been found in Peru that are certainly not human or of any known species on earth. picture: www.ufodigest.com/skulls.html - There is so many of these 'abnormal' skulls found in peru that locals build there own mini museums for tourists.

# Pyramids are aligned to celestial events, building pyramids like that takes a huge amount of intelligent geomotry that can only be done with a lot of astrological knowledge.

# Nasca lines in peru are miles long and can only be seen for what they are in the air, how and why did they build such geometric structures? picture: www.envasion.net/2003/nasca.html

There's more, but im tired and slightly bored of trying to convince everyone the truth...

What do the Illuminati have to do with this?
The Illuminati have to with everything.

I know a source for this. Lord Of Light by Roger Zelazny.

You probably read the works by great seer Arthur C. too right?
No i haven't, stop trying to pigeon hole me. Im just presenting the facts and a logical explanation for religion.

The Illuminati have to with everything.
I assure you we do not..err... THEY do not.

Some facts to back up the extra-terrestrial theory:

# In the bible code, it states that our intelligent DNA, arrived in a celestial vehicle (ufo). The bible code was confirmed by the CIA as an actual code and not coincidental letters joining up to make sense! The code is held in the first ever religious book (old testament) and was cracked by an israeli mathmatician using a computer.

Generally something like this would have a reliable source. Which you will probably need to provide, as many see the Bible code a huge pile of shit.

# Pictures taken from a NASA satelite orbiting mars, shows GLASS TUNNELS ON MARS, clearly an unnatural formation, i dont remember humans building them. website address; www.enterprisemission.com/samp5.htm
- incidently the website is run by a former NASA scientist who accused NASA of covering up cerain photos and information from satelites.

Are you talking about the canali spotted by an Italian astromoner ages ago?

~Which lead to a people being sure that Mars has or had sentient life.

Hasn't that been disproved too?


# A face, pyramids and rectangular structures all miles wide and all gemotrically aligned! http://www.enterprisemission.com/ma...php?page=paper1

This is like the picture of the WTO towers after the planes crashed. People reckoned that they could see Satan's face in the smoke.

With stuff like this, people see what they want to see.


# Also plenty more pictures of'unnatural formations and mechanical junk on mars. pictures taken by NASA rovers, spirit and opportunity. www.enterprisemission.com, scroll down, there are loads of links.

# A fact, on average, once every 3 minutes somebody reports seeing a UFO to official phone records. Only 1% of the cases can be explained by a natural event or a known phenomonon and they are just the calls recorded.

Seems like a lot of phone calls. Do you really expect someone to investigate every siting? you would have to work all the time, non-stop investigating, and every investigation could only last 2mins 59 secs maximum.

# Hundreds of Skulls have been found in Peru that are certainly not human or of any known species on earth. picture: www.ufodigest.com/skulls.html - There is so many of these 'abnormal' skulls found in peru that locals build there own mini museums for tourists.[/quote]

They must of thought the same thing when the first dinsaur fossil was found.

# Pyramids are aligned to celestial events, building pyramids like that takes a huge amount of intelligent geomotry that can only be done with a lot of astrological knowledge.

This proves what?

The Egyptians were good at maths?

# Nasca lines in peru are miles long and can only be seen for what they are in the air, how and why did they build such geometric structures? picture: www.envasion.net/2003/nasca.html

Please first prove that it was Aliens. I have no idea about them, but I can remember seeing a bit of a documentary about them. Apparently they are quite easy to make.

No i haven't, stop trying to pigeon hole me. Im just presenting the facts and a logical explanation for religion.
How am I pigeon holing you?

However the people which are more hypocritical than the Christians are the atheists who celebrate Christmas.

I would agree with that statement if "Christmas" was originally a xian holiday.

I would agree with that statement if "Christmas" was originally a xian holiday.
And if Father Christmas is a Christian symbol/saint/whatever.

Well, according to the NT, Jesus was born of a union between an Angel (specifically, an Angel named Semayasa, although more recent English translations say it was the "Holy Ghost", not an Angel) and a human female (Mary). This would make Jesus a Nephilim. The Nephilim are described in Genesis ch. 6 and God had to flood the world to destroy them.

I suppose it could very well, by its own admission, be a product of that which God chose to destroy. Funny to me how Christians would worship such a thing.

Ah well ... go figure.

Well your answer suggests that im following only one persons ideas or im from some sect. someone else said i was part of the raelien movement earier, lol.
I am only looking for the truth about human history, just as you are and after reading and seeing a lot on this subject i am in not doubt that extra-terrestrials genetically enhanced humans and created religion.

Using religion with a logical interpretation stories can be explained; One story everyone knows well from the bible, joseph and mary following the star to bethlehem. Stars dont move, but ufo's are often seen as bright lights in the sky.

Moses on mount sinai is said to have wrote down the old testament through 'voices' in his head, this could be telepathic communication from the aliens, something quite possible from a species with presumbably so much intelligence.

The virgin mary, had a baby without having sex as the story goes, illogical.
logical; Aliens artificially inseminated her, or ivf treatment as it is known now, something woman can do if they cant have a baby through sex.

Just three examples for you to think about. Try and be open minded.

Some facts to back up the extra-terrestrial theory:

# In the bible code, it states that our intelligent DNA, arrived in a celestial vehicle (ufo). The bible code was confirmed by the CIA as an actual code and not coincidental letters joining up to make sense! The code is held in the first ever religious book (old testament) and was cracked by an israeli mathmatician using a computer.

# Pictures taken from a NASA satelite orbiting mars, shows GLASS TUNNELS ON MARS, clearly an unnatural formation, i dont remember humans building them. website address; www.enterprisemission.com/samp5.htm
- incidently the website is run by a former NASA scientist who accused NASA of covering up cerain photos and information from satelites.

# A face, pyramids and rectangular structures all miles wide and all gemotrically aligned! www.enterprisemission.com/mars/papers_1.php?page=paper1

# Also plenty more pictures of'unnatural formations and mechanical junk on mars. pictures taken by NASA rovers, spirit and opportunity. www.enterprisemission.com, scroll down, there are loads of links.

# A fact, on average, once every 3 minutes somebody reports seeing a UFO to official phone records. Only 1% of the cases can be explained by a natural event or a known phenomonon and they are just the calls recorded.

# Hundreds of Skulls have been found in Peru that are certainly not human or of any known species on earth. picture: www.ufodigest.com/skulls.html - There is so many of these 'abnormal' skulls found in peru that locals build there own mini museums for tourists.

# Pyramids are aligned to celestial events, building pyramids like that takes a huge amount of intelligent geomotry that can only be done with a lot of astrological knowledge.

# Nasca lines in peru are miles long and can only be seen for what they are in the air, how and why did they build such geometric structures? picture: www.envasion.net/2003/nasca.html

There's more, but im tired and slightly bored of trying to convince everyone the truth...

Bible codes can also be found in Moby Dick, War and Peace, and Harry Potter 5 "predicting" any murder of a famous person across the ages- it happens based upon chance. In a work as long as the bible, it is bound to produce a code that fits your religion eventually. I bet I can find one saying "There Is No God."

The rest is conspiracy theory fodder and isn't worth my time. However, UFOs are explained more than 1% of the time- you made that statistic up. According to the Air Force, 90% of all UFOs have an apparant explanation, and the other 10% are mostly due to bad visual conditions making it impossible to indentify positively.

Bible codes can also be found in Moby Dick, War and Peace, and Harry Potter 5 "predicting" any murder of a famous person across the ages- it happens based upon chance. In a work as long as the bible, it is bound to produce a code that fits your religion eventually. I bet I can find one saying "There Is No God."

The rest is conspiracy theory fodder and isn't worth my time. However, UFOs are explained more than 1% of the time- you made that statistic up. According to the Air Force, 90% of all UFOs have an apparant explanation, and the other 10% are mostly due to bad visual conditions making it impossible to indentify positively.

The bible code is wrote by a so called 'athiest' who didn't beleive it aswell after being told, but when a prophecy of the israeli priminister being assasinated came true, then he took it seriously.
If you think its a lod of fodder then why did the PENTAGON hold a special meeting with the writer michael drosnin??? they told him not to release certain dates and locations that the bible code gives out, yes the bible code gives actual dates and locations, like the 9/11 attack.

Also I didn't MAKE UP the fact that 99% of ufo sightings are unexplained, i saw it on a programme i watched on discovery science.

The bible code is wrote by a so called 'athiest' who didn't beleive it aswell after being told, but when a prophecy of the israeli priminister being assasinated came true, then he took it seriously.
If you think its a lod of fodder then why did the PENTAGON hold a special meeting with the writer michael drosnin??? they told him not to release certain dates and locations that the bible code gives out, yes the bible code gives actual dates and locations, like the 9/11 attack.

Also I didn't MAKE UP the fact that 99% of ufo sightings are unexplained, i saw it on a programme i watched on discovery science.

And that changes the fact that the Bible Codes are also found in works of fiction and dictionaries? Anything sufficiently long can predict the assasination of the Israeli Prime Minister on XX/XX/XXXX as long as you have enough words to get a combination match.

The CIA also did research on Psychic Powers. They take everything seriously, just in case. Anyhow, did you even bother to cite that source? Your claim is controversial, prove it.

And I saw a program on FOX that said we never landed on the moon. Cite the "99% of UFOs are unexplained" claim please.

Well your answer suggests that im following only one persons ideas or im from some sect. someone else said i was part of the raelien movement earier, lol.
I am only looking for the truth about human history, just as you are and after reading and seeing a lot on this subject i am in not doubt that extra-terrestrials genetically enhanced humans and created religion.

Using religion with a logical interpretation stories can be explained; One story everyone knows well from the bible, joseph and mary following the star to bethlehem. Stars dont move, but ufo's are often seen as bright lights in the sky.
First, Joseph and Mary didn't follow the star, it appeared at Jesus's birth. They went to Bethlehem to be counted in a cencus. The Maji followed the star. As far as following a star, it does not have to "Move" to follow it. People often follow the north star, but it never moves. When the Maji saw the star in the east, they traveled in its direction until they found Jesus.

Moses on mount sinai is said to have wrote down the old testament through 'voices' in his head, this could be telepathic communication from the aliens, something quite possible from a species with presumbably so much intelligence.
Maybe he was schitzophrenic? Maybe he was taking mind altering drugs (which was often done in that time period to get closer to gods) and hallusinated it?

The virgin mary, had a baby without having sex as the story goes, illogical.
logical; Aliens artificially inseminated her, or ivf treatment as it is known now, something woman can do if they cant have a baby through sex.
I have also heard that the word "virgin" meant a young woman during that time period. Therefore, it is possible that Mary did have sex and was still a "virgin".

Just three examples for you to think about. Try and be open minded.

Just giving you three other examples ;)

Well your answer suggests that im following only one persons ideas or im from some sect. someone else said i was part of the raelien movement earier, lol.
I am only looking for the truth about human history, just as you are and after reading and seeing a lot on this subject i am in not doubt that extra-terrestrials genetically enhanced humans and created religion.
No honestly, read Lord of Light. It is fantastic. I think you would like it.

And the Arthur C Clarke reference I put in because he said "Any sufficiently advanced technology
is indistinguishable from magic." Which I thought, given your theories, you would know.

And neighter of them are cultists, just writers.

It doesn't matter what the 'actual' percentage is, the fact is that you dont have that many sightings just because there is a strange looking cloud or a weather balloon, it doesn't up add up. There is also a lot of convincing photos and videos , like from the pheonix lights incident. It was clearly 'abnormal', yet the goverment denies any knowledge of it, then after the media intensity grew they came out and said it was flares, since when do flares behave like the light objects seen that night in 1997, they moved independently for about an hour, flares drop to the ground, that is just one example of a cover-up. Ask yourself, why would the government do that?

Have you conceded on Bible Codes or do I have to go get my Harry Potter books and find out when the hit on Bush is coming?

UFOs are idiotic- the idea that alien species would come to Earth and not show themselves for thousands of years to more than a couple people is absurd. The fact that they skirt around, purposefully evading humans and making themselves visible in their craft but not doing anything otehr than puzzle onlookers is an insult to an sentient species' intelligence.

The percentage matters. If, as you say, there is a UFO sighting every 3 seconds, there are 10.5 million sightings a year. I say there are 10.4 actual UFO sightings a year, and I say there are 1.05 "unconfirmed" sightings. That is a rather large difference. [Math is approximate]

No honestly, read Lord of Light. It is fantastic. I think you would like it.

And the Arthur C Clarke reference I put in because he said "Any sufficiently advanced technology
is indistinguishable from magic." Which I thought, given your theories, you would know.

And neighter of them are cultists, just writers.
It sounds interesting. And its true "Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - If you showed someone a few hundred years ago a radio or something electric they would think it was magic.

Have you conceded on Bible Codes or do I have to go get my Harry Potter books and find out when the hit on Bush is coming?

UFOs are idiotic- the idea that alien species would come to Earth and not show themselves for thousands of years to more than a couple people is absurd. The fact that they skirt around, purposefully evading humans and making themselves visible in their craft but not doing anything otehr than puzzle onlookers is an insult to an sentient species' intelligence.

The percentage matters. If, as you say, there is a UFO sighting every 3 seconds, there are 10.5 million sightings a year. I say there are 10.4 actual UFO sightings a year, and I say there are 1.05 "unconfirmed" sightings. That is a rather large difference. [Math is approximate]
What a meant was the that UFO's are being seen by respected and sophisticated people like pilots and politicans, this is something you should respect, intelligent people dont just say things like 'i saw a ufo, it looked like a spaceship' on a whim.

UFO's can be explained by science, religions are just words in book and yet religion gets more respect, science over stories now thats absurd!

When Extra-terrestrials first arrived they were open about, hence all the storys in religious books. But they got no respect, so they thought up a way of controlling them, (religion) and its worked, you just have to look at the ridiculous things people do in the name of religion.
It seems like an alien experiment we're like lab rats, except it. Religion was thought up to control and manipulate people, clear and simple.

It sounds interesting. And its true "Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - If you showed someone a few hundred years ago a radio or something electric they would think it was magic.
It is along those lines that Lord of Light works. There are two castes of people (effectively), the 'mortals' and the 'gods.' There both human, but the Gods have access to very advanced technologies to make themselves identical to the gods of the Hindi panthanon (and a few others).

Okay, now I'm convinced your religion has detached you from reality. I've given up debating you on this issue.

My religion, what religion is that then lol? i am certainly not religious, religion is the thing im trying to expose for what it is, a mis interpretation and a manipulising tool.

4. What ever became of the Dead Sea Scrolls anyhow? I heard that they weren't released originally because they proved Jesus was a fictional character, but now that conspiracy theory seems to have evaporated. Have they been released yet?

I don't know this for a fact.....But with the Dead Sea Scrolls, once translated, my guess is this information was delivered to the Catholic Church, which would decide on it's authenticity and whether the information agreed with the established canon. IF it was contradictory to the established canon.....well, use your imagination.

My guess is, most religions(christianity mainly) are very reluctant for any "new" ideas/ideology/writings to change their established dogma.

There are some books out about the Dead Sea Scrolls, though I've never read any of them.

Well, maybe the bible isn't the work of satan.... but just think about it:

It's said that the devil's greatest achievement is that people don't believe he exists. So wouldn't satan attempt to convert as many innocent people as possible by appending a short volume (New Testament) onto the end of a longer volume (Old Testament.) Let's say god really is an old testament god, and that satan inspired all those who penned the New Testament, and manifested himself as Jesus to convert people. After all, Christianity, like any other religion has supported its fair share of violence and oppresion in the past. Why can't that be satan's work?

Anyway, what do all you think?

I wish people would stop quoting Anton Lavey. He was a shithead. He never outgrew his teenage pettishness. Honestly, is there anything less original than attacking the church? If you really didn't care, you wouldn't bother.

As for the bible, it's a good book. We only ever get the abridged version, but that's the standard version for over 1600 years, so let's live with it. Back around 400 AD the church got together in synod and decided what to include. The conversation might have sounded like, "Ok guys, the book of Thomas...in or out?"

We take it much too seriously when we should be getting on with it the best way we know how.


http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible5.html

i still think this alien thing is quite the novelty

but read up on the Illuminati and they believe the same general thing so therefore Gibraltar do you have some ties that you aren't sharing?