NationStates Jolt Archive

Anyone else noticed how the fathers and mothers of soldiers/sailors/airmen all hate the anti-war movement? And you know what thier reasoning is... They think the Anti-War movement hates the soldiers themselves.Yet another example of peoples indoctrination into the cult of the patriot.


Patriot (Noun)

1. someone who believes that the country in which they happened to be born entitles them to the destruction of other peoples and nations.
2. someone who finds paying taxes in order to overthrow existing foreign governments, replace them with their own nation's corporate lobbyists, and then later destroy them when deemed to be out of compliance with the economic interests of their own country to be a worthwhile expenditure.

The Ameriacn patriots empowered Hussein with millions of tax dollars and weapons in order to fight Iran, then starved 50,000 Iraqi children a year from 1992-1997 by blockading and destroying supply shipment routes to civilian areas before realizing that yet another war was necessary if their country was ever going to establish true economic control of a region vital to nurturing American overconsumption.


*Edited for flamebait. - Stephanie.

I am reasonably certain that where I come from patriotism mostly involves:
Drinking beer
Being abnormally pleased when the All Blacks/Springboks get their butts kicked by the Wallabies
Calling people 'mate'
Having a punt on Cup day
Going overseas and wandering around singing Waltizing Matilda at the top of your voice just to piss people off
Being mortally embarassed by Steve Irwin
Drinking beer
Drinking beer


:confused:

And here I thought it was:

patriot[n]: One who loves his country, and zealously supports its authority and interests.

Of course, I could be craaaazy like a fox...network...no spin zone! argh!!...I feel dirty for even saything that...

****ed if I know. Want a beer?

Patriot... herd mentality
tom(ay)to... tom(ah)to

maybe even potato... potatoe :D

Beer?

I am reasonably certain that where I come from patriotism mostly involves:
Drinking beer
Being abnormally pleased when the All Blacks/Springboks get their butts kicked by the Wallabies
Calling people 'mate'
Having a punt on Cup day
Going overseas and wandering around singing Waltizing Matilda at the top of your voice just to piss people off
Being mortally embarassed by Steve Irwin
Drinking beer
Drinking beer


:confused:
fucking too right mate :D

Beer?

[hands Insane Troll an ice-cold stubby]

Anyone else noticed how the fathers and mothers of soldiers/sailors/airmen all hate the anti-war movement? And you know what thier reasoning is... They think the Anti-War movement hates the soldiers themselves.Yet another example of peoples indoctrination into the cult of the patriot.

You put words in other peoples mouths.



Patriot (Noun)

1. someone who believes that the country in which they happened to be born entitles them to the destruction of other peoples and nations.
2. someone who finds paying taxes in order to overthrow existing foreign governments, replace them with their own nation's corporate lobbyists, and then later destroy them when deemed to be out of compliance with the economic interests of their own country to be a worthwhile expenditure.

You make up bullshit.



The Ameriacn patriots empowered Hussein with millions of tax dollars and weapons in order to fight Iran, then starved 50,000 Iraqi children a year from 1992-1997 by blockading and destroying supply shipment routes to civilian areas before realizing that yet another war was necessary if their country was ever going to establish true economic control of a region vital to nurturing American overconsumption.


And you're dishonest. (These are actions of the UN, not the US alone.)

There's nothing here to discuss. Only dishonest provocation, propaganda and bullshit based rhetorics.

Issue is dismissed.

[hands Insane Troll an ice-cold stubby]

Yay!

Thank you.

I am reasonably certain that where I come from patriotism mostly involves:
Drinking beer
Being abnormally pleased when the All Blacks/Springboks get their butts kicked by the Wallabies
Calling people 'mate'
Having a punt on Cup day
Going overseas and wandering around singing Waltizing Matilda at the top of your voice just to piss people off
Being mortally embarassed by Steve Irwin
Drinking beer
Drinking beer


:confused:

Woo, I'm *also* mortally embarassed by Steve Irwin. I mean, seriously, I don't want people saying "Ohhhhhh! You're from Australia! Do you know Steve Irwin! Yeee!". Ugh. Other annoying quesitons include "Do you ride kangaroos there? (No, dumbarse, if you try to ride a kangaroo you'd get kicked into next week), and "Is John Howard really as awfully, awfully slimy as he looks? (No. Much, much, much more so. The guy is seperated from frogs and newts by, like, 3 chromosomes).

Buggard , tone it down now!

Thank You,
Stephanie
Game Moderator

being patriotic doesn't mean you have to support the government. being patriotic means you love the country, its people, its culture, its language, its heritage, its history, its geography etc...

supporting the government without question is not patriotism, it's loyalty, or to the extreme, blindness.

I am reasonably certain that where I come from patriotism mostly involves:
Drinking beer
Being abnormally pleased when the All Blacks/Springboks get their butts kicked by the Wallabies
Calling people 'mate'
Having a punt on Cup day
Going overseas and wandering around singing Waltizing Matilda at the top of your voice just to piss people off
Being mortally embarassed by Steve Irwin
Drinking beer
Drinking beer


:confused:

Man, I'm proud to be Australian.

For me, patriotism is a double edged knife. I don't mind people taking pride in the country the live in, if it encourages them to take care of it, then why not?

HOWEVER

Patriotistm to the point of Jingoism is what both scares me and annoys me. IMO, the safest way to prevent wars is through a more-internationally based mentality. Think 'we' instead of 'us' (think about that). The UN, for example, is the closest thing we have to an international forum, and for all its faults, provides best system we've had to resolve international disputes (e.g. Cuban Missile Crisis seems like a relevent example here). It is when people think "my country is better than yours" at an active political level that we ge problems. Most countries seem to suffer from this to varying degrees, it seems to be an inevitable problem inherrant in our psyches. I personally consider it unsettling when countries intervene in others without broad international consent in order to 'liberate' another and set up a government that is like its own. Before people say "godam librul bitching about iraq again", remember that the USSR did this after WW2 in eastern europe, so any country potentially can do this.

Buggard , tone it down now!

Thank You,
Stephanie
Game Moderator
OK I will, but can you tell me what's wrong with my post?

I didn't attack a person, I just attacked what he wrote. And what I wrote about it is right, isn't it?

He did put words in the mouths of others!
He did make up a phony definition of patriotism, that is suited for nothing but provoking people who call themselves patriots!
And he was dishonest by mispresenting facts, claiming that the US did something that was the actions of the UN!

And he never argued for anything of what he wrote. Thus there are no issue to discuss.

I think posts like that of NWV are totally unserious and that it's good for nothing more than causing a flamewar.

So why do I get the warning, and not NWV?

OK I will, but can you tell me what's wrong with my post?

I didn't attack a person, I just attacked what he wrote. And what I wrote about it is right, isn't it?

He did put words in the mouths of others!
He did make up a phony definition of patriotism, that is suited for nothing but provoking people who call themselves patriots!
And he was dishonest by mispresenting facts, claiming that the US did something that was the actions of the UN!

And he never argued for anything of what he wrote. Thus there are no issue to discuss.

I think posts like that of NWV are totally unserious and that it's good for nothing more than causing a flamewar.

So why do I get the warning, and not NWV?

It wasn't an official warning, I could just feel the tone that you were getting hyped or angry.. and just thought I'd give you a friendly "tone it down" , no harm no foul, just remember it's only a message board.

It wasn't an official warning, I could just feel the tone that you were getting hyped or angry.. and just thought I'd give you a friendly "tone it down" , no harm no foul, just remember it's only a message board.

Ok, I admit I don't have very fond feelings for threads like this, and I wish more people would see them for what (I think) they are. But I'll take your friendly advice and go back to totally ignoring them then. :)

So why do I get the warning, and not NWV?

Coz Stephistan is a liberal :D

Coz Stephistan is a liberal :D

Hey, that's not fair, go look I edited his post to take the flamebait out.

I think posts like that of NWV are totally unserious and that it's good for nothing more than causing a flamewar.

So why do I get the warning, and not NWV?

Now, go make similair posts in threads started by people who wanna justifie the war by "bullshit" like this or just badmouth Kerry for no good reason so both sides learn. OK, this is a little extreme case that prolly should be critizied hard. But just because some aren't as extreme doesn't mean they should be unquestioneed.

imo.

Also, you got a warning while NWVs post was forced-edited. I would say that that's nicer of Stephanie.

Anyone else noticed how the fathers and mothers of soldiers/sailors/airmen all hate the anti-war movement? And you know what thier reasoning is... They think the Anti-War movement hates the soldiers themselves.Yet another example of peoples indoctrination into the cult of the patriot.

ah-yes, it is a sad truth that the militirization of America has lead a confusion of the words "jingoist" with "patriot."

Thomas Jefferson once said that "Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism."

ah-yes, it is a sad truth that the militirization of America has lead a confusion of the words "jingoist" with "patriot."

Thomas Jefferson once said that "Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism."

woop!

Someone with sense. NWV may have been flamebaiting in the way he put his point across: however, the point he made is valid. Too few people in America understand what being a patriot is: and likewise for Britain, where I am from. Too many white people (I'm white btw) believe that patriotism involves not allowing anyone from another culture to come within our borders. They don't celebrte their own culture, they simply set out to destroy others.

And Buggard... your point is fair... but I still think NWV is right, while it may very well be rhetoric, so is politics. Biff baff boff.

Now, go make similair posts in threads started by people who wanna justifie the war by "bullshit" like this or just badmouth Kerry for no good reason so both sides learn.

But I agree. I support Bush, and I think there's a lot of good reasons for what he did. But when other Bush supporters just sling mud it only serves to polarize the oppositions, and it becomes really hard to reach anyone with serious arguments.

I wish more people, instead of engaging in this kind of mud slinging contests, would either simply do what I tried to do here... just call the bullshit for what it is. Or just ignore such posts altogether.


Also, you got a warning while NWVs post was forced-edited. I would say that that's nicer of Stephanie.

Oh no no! I was no warning! It was just a bit of friendly advice. :D

Seriously though, I think what's still there from NWVs post is 'worse' than what I wrote. Not that I think it should be sensored. NWV has the right to express his oppinions too.

And Buggard... your point is fair... but I still think NWV is right, while it may very well be rhetoric, so is politics. Biff baff boff.
Thank you. Rhetorics in itself is not a bad thing. Rhetoric is making an argument (or asking a question) in such a way that there is only one answer or conclusion.

But rhetorics, as all logical arguments, needs to be based on true propositions. If the propositions are false, the rhetorics give a false answer.

If, in such cases, you start discussing the arguments, you've lost. The arguments is not the problem, it's the false basis for the argument. So there really is no need for a discussion, just for calling the false propositions, and thus dismissing the issue.

Even though what NWVs claims may be right, it's only for a very few people. And even if it's right for some, it's still NWV that puts words in their mouths. He doesn't base his rhetorics on any facts, just made up facts that he may think fits the opponent.

The problem when you don't call this for hwat it is, is that peole tend to repeat it. And when enough people say this, people start to believ. And the lies become the truth. It's called propaganda.

And besides that, what he wrote about what the 'American patriots' did, it's downright false and thus dishonest.

Ok, just for the record.

Patriotism: Love of and devotion to one's country.

Jingoism: Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

Patriotism has an element of jingoism but in the end they are radicly different.

Source: www.dictionary.com

This thread clearly needs more beer.

[drags in an esky & starts doling out stubbies]

What? It's XXXX. That's pretty bloody patriotic as far as I'm concerned. :cool: