NationStates Jolt Archive


What to do with Prussia?

Strensall
01-08-2004, 01:35
The point of this post is what to do with the Russian owned enclave of Prussia, centring around the historic city of Konigsberg (now Kaliningrad).

A map of the area can be found here:
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/ia/images/map-Kaliningrad.gif

East Prussia, with its capital Konigsberg, was captured by the Red Army in the spring of 1945. The area, which is about the size of Northern Ireland, is on the Baltic coast, bordered by Lithuania and Poland and without direct access to Russia.

Once the historic heartland of the most powerful country in mainland Europe, it is now little more than a troubled, drugs-plauged ruin.

The question is, what should be done with this little piece of history?

Should it return to Germany as a state in the federation? How about to Poland, or Lithuania? Should it stay under Russian control, or should it be granted independance and a referendum on it's future?

Most schools teach little of Prussia, but it's place in the world shaped history as we know it. Below is a brief history of Prussia to the present day:

1657: after an invasion by the Swedes, Poland surrendered sovereignity over Prussia and granted it independance under the Hohenzollern line.

1772: Prussia's power grew, and under King Friedrich II (Frederick the Great), it consisted of the provinces of Brandenburg, Pomerania, Danzig, West Prussia and East Prussia (modern day East Germany, northern Poland, and a small portion of Lithuania).

1815: At Waterloo, the Prussian army arrived much to the suprise of Napoleon, who's troops then routed causing the capture of Napoleon and his subsequent imprisonment.

1871: After provocation, France declared war on Prussia. Seeing this as a foreign attack on fellow Germans, nationalist sentiment allowed Germany to be unified under Prussian leadership. The Prussian army swiftly defeated the French, who had problems mobilising. Paris was occupied, and German lands West of the Rhine were given to Germany along with some majority French ethnic lands (Alsace & Lorraine)

1919: After Germany's defeat in WW1, the Danzig Corridor was given to Poland, separating Prussia from mainland Germany.

1945: Prussia was split between Poland and the Soviet Union, the former gaining the South-East and the latter gaining the North-West. Poland's borders were relocated West to allow for Soviet expansion at the expense of Germany rather than Poland.

1990: Since the cold war, the Prussia has remained under Russian rule and has suffered from lack of investment and rife drug problems and the effects of organised crime. Poverty is widespread, and there is little in terms of an economy.
Strensall
01-08-2004, 01:37
I'm in favour of returning it to Germany, as it is the place where Germany truly started.
Purly Euclid
01-08-2004, 01:38
Keep it as part of Russia. It is Russia's sole port on the Baltic, and will be vital to them should they become active in trade again.
Strensall
01-08-2004, 01:44
Keep it as part of Russia. It is Russia's sole port on the Baltic, and will be vital to them should they become active in trade again.

What about St. Petersburg?
Von Witzleben
01-08-2004, 01:48
1871: After provocation, France declared war on Prussia. Seeing this as a foreign attack on fellow Germans, nationalist sentiment allowed Germany to be unified under Prussian leadership. The Prussian army swiftly defeated the French, who had problems mobilising. Paris was occupied, and German lands West of the Rhine were given to Germany along with some majority French ethnic lands (Alsace & Lorraine)
I'm not sure what the situation is today, but back then the majority in those areas was still German.
As for the question, I'm not sure. Eventhough I voted to return it to Germany, Germany since the reunification has had more then enough trouble. Still does. With the states of the former DDR. To add another rundown state might prove to be to much. Plus the costs for relocating the Russians that live there now.
Siljhouettes
01-08-2004, 01:51
The Russians should keep Kaliningrad. The military state of Prussia, longtime model of mass mind control, is dead and gone. The Russians need the city because it is their only port that stays ice-free all year round.
Von Witzleben
01-08-2004, 01:51
Keep it as part of Russia. It is Russia's sole port on the Baltic, and will be vital to them should they become active in trade again.
What about Vyborg?
Miratha
01-08-2004, 01:55
<--- = 1/4 Prussian

I said make it independent, but after reconsidering it, I'd say keep it in Russia. Redividing land plots for new nations and expansion causes time and effort; it'd be less of a hassle if we just left them as-is for now. Furthermore, port cities are always good for improving military over-seas and trade, both of which are important.
Purly Euclid
01-08-2004, 01:57
What about St. Petersburg?
It freezes in the winter, and it is also not close enough to the Danish straits/Kiel Canal.
Purly Euclid
01-08-2004, 01:57
What about Vyborg?
It's probably north enough to freeze in the winter.
Brytish Empire
01-08-2004, 01:59
Germany has lost lots of it's land since the end of WW1 and WW2. Europe's borders were changed to suit the victors, not the people living within them. You only need to look at Poland to see where I'm coming from.

The highlighted area is Poland now, the red line is Poland's borders settled after WW1 until the outbreak of WW2*

http://www.ui.jor.br/images/polomap1.jpg

*I don't know which country the Czech-Polish disputed areas are shown in on this map.
Strensall
01-08-2004, 02:05
The Russians should keep Kaliningrad. The military state of Prussia, longtime model of mass mind control, is dead and gone. The Russians need the city because it is their only port that stays ice-free all year round.

Prussia was once described as an army with a country, rather than a country with an army. In the 1700s and 1800s it was hardly a crime to have an autocratic monarch. Even that was dispensed with way before a lot of other countries did. Prussian leadership under Bismarck basically industrialized and built railways across the whole of Germany. Also, his social reforms made the German's some of the most well-off people in continental Europe. Nowhere else had healthcare or pensions or unemployment subsidies, and although nothing like the things we take for granted now it was more than most could have expected prior to Socialist-thinking becoming popular.

Prussia is not connected to Russia via land. Any Russian trade using Konigsberg port could just as easily use one in Lithuania or Latvia, as it would still require rail transport through a foreign country or two.