NationStates Jolt Archive

(Better put on fireproof gear before the flaming starts...)

Theres a large part of me that says "Yes".

They did.
As an exscuse to declare war on Germany, and Japan.

It's more likely it was simple incompetence, really.

It's more likely it was simple incompetence, really.

That's the trouble with conspiracy theories; they're just like religion and Darwinism. Impossible to prove, impossible to disprove.

yesnomaybeso

The USA had to know that they would eventually be at war with Japan. As to direct knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack, I believe that they had at least a suspicion, but there was little to do to prevent it (note: most of our carriers were not at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked. Ever wonder why?).

I think Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen by the great conspiricy, to allow the current American Imperialism to come about.

Hail Satan!
Jim.

That's the trouble with conspiracy theories; they're just like religion and Darwinism. Impossible to prove, impossible to disprove.

However, they also aren't the best theories because they add an unnecessary term [the conspiracy] to what we know, one that can't be measured and doesn't really add anything.

If the US knew, why didn't they have their carriers engage the Japanese battlegroups and cripple the IJN before the war had even begun?

If the US knew, why didn't they have their carriers engage the Japanese battlegroups and cripple the IJN before the war had even begun?
You kids take your logic and get off my lawn!

Of course they didn´t know! What the hell are you suggesting anyway, that the government let all those people die deliberately?

I say you are all a bunch of paranoid over-the-top "oh my god!" Americans!

Of course they didn´t know! What the hell are you suggesting anyway, that the government let all those people die deliberately?

I say you are all a bunch of paranoid over-the-top "oh my god!" Americans!

Whoosh. There goes the joke.

I'll provide a bibliography:

Infamy: Pearl Harbor and Its Aftermath by John Toland (Garden City, NY:
Doubleday, 1982);

Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace, Harry Elmer Barnes, ed. (Caldwell, ID: Caxton, 1953);

Back Door to War, The Roosevelt Foreign Policy, 1933-1941 by Charles Callan;

Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor by World War II Navy veteran Robert B. Stinnett;

The Roosevelt Myth by John T. Flynn;

The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor by Rear Admiral Robert O. Theobald (Old Greenwich, Connecticut: Devin-Adair, 1954);

The New Dealers' War by Thomas Fleming

However, they also aren't the best theories because they add an unnecessary term [the conspiracy] to what we know, one that can't be measured and doesn't really add anything.

If the US knew, why didn't they have their carriers engage the Japanese battlegroups and cripple the IJN before the war had even begun?

Becuase that would have been an act of open warfare, and congress would have not been happy.

But if WE were attacked....

Now ..thats different then, isnt it?

Becuase that would have been an act of open warfare, and congress would have not been happy.

But if WE were attacked....

Now ..thats different then, isnt it?

But what would be the problem with swatting carriers full of empty planes after the fact?

The White House knew that Jews were being exterminated in camps before 1941. Why wasnt that enough to go then?

But what would be the problem with swatting carriers full of empty planes after the fact?


Beg pardon?

I dont understand what your saying.

Beg pardon?

I dont understand what your saying.

Assume the US knows about the attack:

1. US carriers with escort battlegroups are out of the harbour.

2. Japanese attack harbour, cassus belli for war, etc.

So why not

3. After attack, American carrier groups attack Japanese fleet, focusing on the carriers and crippling the IJN's Pacific fleet on the first day of the war.

If they knew, why just let the IJN sail away again unchallenged? Why not try to damage their ships or intercept their supply convoys and cut off their fuel so they can't get back to Japan and have to surrender?

Beg pardon?

I dont understand what your saying.

If our carriers, which were out at sea at the time, had launched a full strike at the empty Japanese carriers, then Japan would have been crippled. Our carriers were steaming for the aluetions (sic).

If we had attacked and destoyed their carriers at that point, a whole lot of American boys would not have died.

We seem to have protected our assets.

Jim

If our carriers, which were out at sea at the time, had launched a full strike at the empty Japanese carriers, then Japan would have been crippled. Our carriers were steaming for the aluetions (sic).

If we had attacked and destoyed their carriers at that point, a whole lot of American boys would not have died.

We seem to have protected our assets.

Jim


Well thats not entirely true....

The majority of the pacific fleet was stationed in Pearl.
Carriers travell in battle-groups, consisting of a carrier, and multiple support ships.

Pearl was attacked, most of the Pacific fleet was inoperable.
This is why it was such a devastating attack.

The White House knew that Jews were being exterminated in camps before 1941. Why wasnt that enough to go then?
They weren't.