NationStates Jolt Archive

Just wanted to talk about something other than politics (yes, I know it will turn into another political thread, but oh well), and to see if anyone shares my hobby. So, any shooters/hunters/collectors out there in the NationStates universe?

I love firearms. Nothing expresses freedom like the ability to blow something up :)

My favorite weapon is the FN FAL. Love'em to death. Too bad I won't be able to own one unless I dish out $1,500 a year for the full auto permits.

sadism:

Noun
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others. 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty. 3. Extreme cruelty.

specifically the "inflicting pain" and definition number 2. I don't understand the difference between enjoying killing things (hunting...I assume you people enjoy it), and sadism. Care to enlighten me?

We're referring to hunting. At least, I HOPE we are . . . :)

I just have fun shooting pumpkins and targets. But I'd like to hunt sometime.

Nothing expresses freedom like the ability to blow something up :)

I think you're confusing power and freedom.

We're referring to hunting. At least, I HOPE we are . . . :)

I just have fun shooting pumpkins and targets. But I'd like to hunt sometime.

why is it accepted to kill something you don't need to kill for fun? isn't that sadism? isn't sadism a mental problem?? I really don't understand how people can say that this is a socially accepted activity.

Because we don't derive sexual pleasure from hunting and shooting things. :):sniper:

Blow things up is fun :D
:mp5: :gundge:

I love firearms. Nothing expresses freedom like the ability to blow something up :)

My favorite weapon is the FN FAL. Love'em to death. Too bad I won't be able to own one unless I dish out $1,500 a year for the full auto permits.

many nations produced semi-auto versions because they though the cartriage was to heavy for their troops to acuratly fire on full-auto

you could get on of those

why is it accepted to kill something you don't need to kill for fun? isn't that sadism? isn't sadism a mental problem?? I really don't understand how people can say that this is a socially accepted activity.

how many burgers have you had in you life time?

It's only fun to blow stuff up in video games...

Because we don't derive sexual pleasure from hunting and shooting things. :)

Blow things up is fun :D

Mind if I blow you up?

sadism:

Noun
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others. 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty. 3. Extreme cruelty.

specifically the "inflicting pain" and definition number 2. I don't understand the difference between enjoying killing things (hunting...I assume you people enjoy it), and sadism. Care to enlighten me?

paper targets don't have feelings, I think

how many burgers have you had in you life time?

I'm vegetarian.

paper targets don't have feelings, I think

Paperphobe!

paper targets don't have feelings, I think

my question isn't about paper targets, though the psychological implications of enjoying destruction (the only reason I can see for not resorting to less expensive video games), are the same there as any other recreational activity involving firearms.

my question isn't about paper targets, though the psychological implications of enjoying destruction (the only reason I can see for not resorting to less expensive video games), are the same there as any other recreational activity involving firearms.

for many people its the same as car racing or golfing

possesing and practicing a skill

I only have a couple .22's from when I was younger.

I wished I could have had one of my great-uncles M1s but they sold them. :mad:

The worst was probably my aunt. My uncle was a P-51 pilot and she gave away his flight jacket because she thought nobody was interested!

Wasn't the P-51 models a clue! :headbang:

Because we don't derive sexual pleasure from hunting and shooting things. :):sniper:

Blow things up is fun :D
:mp5: :gundge:

sexual pleasure is only one definition of it.

Guns are what makes america great :sniper:

I only have a couple .22's from when I was younger.

I wished I could have had one of my great-uncles M1s but they sold them. :mad:

The worst was probably my aunt. My uncle was a P-51 pilot and she gave away his flight jacket because she thought nobody was interested!

Wasn't the P-51 models a clue! :headbang:

my great grandfather was a sherif, but when he died they sold the original colt 1873 peacemaker the gov. issued him

for many people its the same as car racing or golfing
possesing and practicing a skill

well I had assumed as much, my best friend's father does it all the time...they have a freezer of dismembered corpses on their back porch (it recently broke...I beleive his wife got bodily fluids all over her...sounds like fun), but people don't aim for squirrels when they're golfing - when little children try to knock birds out of trees with sharp rocks people think they're some kind of demented freak, but when grown men do what's essentially the same thing, people don't care? I don't get it.

Guns are what makes america great :sniper:

That's pretty pathetic.

Guns are what makes america great :sniper:

erm, that and the stock market.

erm, that and the stock market.

And the culture and history and technological achievements, and the American people and the pride and love they have for their country.

And the culture and history and technological achievements, and the American people and the pride and love they have for their country.

I was trying to avoid the history - because this country is on land stolen through genocide...so I just don't bring that up usually. the culture is pretty useless, it has mostly to do with the fact that we stole all of our land from people who couldn't put up much of a fight, and then had the most massive ammount of natural resources in the history of the western world with no foreign invasions to speak of. The only reason this nation existed in the first place is because the british realized it wasn't cost-effective to continue putting down the revolution. Don't flatter my fellow americans and our ancestors that it had anything to do with them, it didn't - or at least not very much to do with them.

I'm vegetarian.
Vegetarians are the only people who can realistically
be against hunting. To those who eat meat and are
against guns however, their logic is not right.
When a hunter kills a deer, it's in its natural environment,
and the deer is killed quickly and painlessly. A butchered
cow however is frightened and in a totally unnatural
environment, hunting therefore is less trauma to the animal.

I'm vegetarian.
How many innocent plants have you butchered in your life time? How many times have you enjoyed the delicious juices, stalks, and leaves of the plants you've eaten? You're injuring the plant population! You're deriving pleasure from cooking, chopping, chewing on, and digesting those poor zucchini, carrots, lettuce, and whatever plants you enjoy. Sadist!

Yeah, I like the Mosin Nagants, partly because of the sights and affordability, but mostly because I just find them the most historically interesting, but some of the Mausers (Swedes, DWM 1909's) are really works of art, and you can't beat the smooth action of an Enfield.

How many innocent plants have you butchered in your life time? How many times have you enjoyed the delicious juices, stalks, and leaves of the plants you've eaten? You're injuring the plant population! You're deriving pleasure from cooking, chopping, chewing on, and digesting those poor zucchini, carrots, lettuce, and whatever plants you enjoy. Sadist!

Damn friggin' straight. You think just because plants don't have a brain... they can't feel? They don't have souls? Hey for all you know it might be your granddaddy reincarnated as a carrot your eating. STOP PLANT CRUELTY! They have feelings too!

I love firearms. Nothing expresses freedom like the ability to blow something up :)

My favorite weapon is the FN FAL. Love'em to death. Too bad I won't be able to own one unless I dish out $1,500 a year for the full auto permits.
Where do you live? Is that some sort of state law, or are you not in the U.S.? As far as I know, all you have to do here is pay the $200 NFA tax and wait a few months for the paperwork to go through. Unfortunately, NFA weapons are horrendously expensive, largely due to the '86 ban. But, if you're in the U.S., there are plenty of semi-auto FAL clones, and lots of people build them, as sort of a hobby.

I express my 2nd amendment right. Guns ARE what made America great because this country would not exist today without them.

I express my 2nd amendment right. Guns ARE what made America great because this country would not exist today without them.

Without them, you could not have kicked the Indians out?

Or did it go like this?:

"I claim this land in the name of..."
"Excuse me, we live here."
"So? Do you have a flag?"
"Um... no?"
"Then shove off."

Opposed to guns :rolleyes:

But, really - I am opposed to guns. Target shooting is fun. Hunting should be legal only if you're gonna eat whatever you kill. Omnivores have a right to oppose guns - as there are other ways to slaughter.

But I would give up my 22s and shotguns if it meant less guns in the hands of those who are using them to shoot people.

Anticarnivoria basically translates as "I'm against anyone or anything that eats meat", so we can kind of guess where you're comin' from.

As long as it´s dead things i blow up i like doing it. Newer bine found of killing live things but i have done some deer hunting, and some elk hunting. Newer rely got an interst in it do.

Becides from that my weapons experience comes from the millitary. I have Experience on the swedish Ak5 (An greath AK in my opinion reliable farly acurate and just enougth weigth to give it an reliable feling when handeling it) AK4 (the old standard ak in the swedish army 7.65mm) Becides from that i have used an ak47/74 (74 is the 5.56mm werson of ak 47) an M16a2 (Is it a2 the new werson is named? Im not sure this were an wile ago) AG90 (that enormous sniper rifle that´s 12.6mm) KSP 58 (Swedish machine gun) and ksp 90 (Named something else outside sweden but i have nooo idea what that migth be it´s an machinegun either way) and i have some training on using explosives and an mortar :)

Without them, you could not have kicked the Indians out?

Or did it go like this?:

"I claim this land in the name of..."
"Excuse me, we live here."
"So? Do you have a flag?"
"Um... no?"
"Then shove off."

'kay, let's play a little game.

Anyone who is a direct descendant of THE VERY FIRST ORIGINAL person to live in the exact place on the planet where you live now, and can state unequivocally that there never was a war, battle, skirmish, or fight of any kind to possess that land, stand up.

What...no one?

Now, I think there is a chance that maybe 2 or 3 square feet of this planet have not had blood shed take place over who owns what. But not much more. It's kind of a sad genetic thing with us humans that we kill each other over a plot of land.

It's not something that we invented here in the United States. We imported it with everything else we brought along.

As long as it´s dead things i blow up i like doing it. Newer bine found of killing live things but i have done some deer hunting, and some elk hunting. Newer rely got an interst in it do.

Becides from that my weapons experience comes from the millitary. I have Experience on the swedish Ak5 (An greath AK in my opinion reliable farly acurate and just enougth weigth to give it an reliable feling when handeling it) AK4 (the old standard ak in the swedish army 7.65mm) Becides from that i have used an ak47/74 (74 is the 5.56mm werson of ak 47) an M16a2 (Is it a2 the new werson is named? Im not sure this were an wile ago) AG90 (that enormous sniper rifle that´s 12.6mm) KSP 58 (Swedish machine gun) and ksp 90 (Named something else outside sweden but i have nooo idea what that migth be it´s an machinegun either way) and i have some training on using explosives and an mortar :)
Don't suppose you have any experience with an M96 or other Mauser, do you? It's my understanding that they were using the M41b until quite recently.

'kay, let's play a little game.

No. Let's not. Let's instead focus on the fact that guns, whether or not they were/are part of what makes America great, were not the only thing. And hopefully not the main thing.

Don't suppose you have any experience with an M96 or other Mauser, do you? It's my understanding that they were using the M41b until quite recently.


Nope saidly not i have heard that the old Mauser is an exelent weapon. Some of the snipers in the home defence still use Mausers. But i have newer even seen one irl. The mausers were primarly used as sniper rifles after the 60s when ak4 got introduced (AK4 is also an exelent sniper weapon if scoped i have seen ppl picking down targets ower 1km away whit dose. That´s hard even whit an AG90)

As long as it´s dead things i blow up i like doing it. Newer bine found of killing live things but i have done some deer hunting, and some elk hunting. Newer rely got an interst in it do.

Becides from that my weapons experience comes from the millitary. I have Experience on the swedish Ak5 (An greath AK in my opinion reliable farly acurate and just enougth weigth to give it an reliable feling when handeling it) AK4 (the old standard ak in the swedish army 7.65mm) Becides from that i have used an ak47/74 (74 is the 5.56mm werson of ak 47) an M16a2 (Is it a2 the new werson is named? Im not sure this were an wile ago) AG90 (that enormous sniper rifle that´s 12.6mm) KSP 58 (Swedish machine gun) and ksp 90 (Named something else outside sweden but i have nooo idea what that migth be it´s an machinegun either way) and i have some training on using explosives and an mortar :)

I'm gonna have to be a stickler gun nut

the ak 74 uses a 5.45, just small enough that it wouldn't work for an american 5.56 gun

Sadism is enjoying inflicting pain upon a being. Hunting is enjoyable both finding the proposed victim and killing it NOT inflicting pain for pleasure. Go ahead rip me apart i know what i mean but i couldnt put it in words

I'm gonna have to be a stickler gun nut

the ak 74 uses a 5.45, just small enough that it wouldn't work for an american 5.56 gun

ahh sorry my misstake. I dont know were i got it from that they were 5.56 but it have just stuck on my mind.

Sadism is enjoying inflicting pain upon a being. Hunting is enjoyable both finding the proposed victim and killing it NOT inflicting pain for pleasure. Go ahead rip me apart i know what i mean but i couldnt put it in words
Not if you kill it with one shot...

Me!!!

Sadism is enjoying inflicting pain upon a being. Hunting is enjoyable both finding the proposed victim and killing it NOT inflicting pain for pleasure. Go ahead rip me apart i know what i mean but i couldnt put it in words

So its ok for me to hunt you? I promise I won't hurt you.

I express my 2nd amendment right. Guns ARE what made America great because this country would not exist today without them.


Wow...your a fool.
A 'gun' is a weapon designed primarily for one thing, to take the life of another person, do taking the lifes of others make America great? {looks at US history of butchery/expansionalism} oh...wait....

2nd Amendment right...that's only there for one of 2 reasons:
I) the 'old skool' batch of Us presidents and politicions, the intelligent onces who weren't yet fully corrupted, agreed with the French Anarchist Blanche {Circa 1800's} that the citizenry should be armed in order to defend itself in the case of an oppressive Govt and that people are slaves whenever the art of soldiery is given up to a proffesional army or military caste. I dont know the date of the 2nd ammendment but I'mn guessing it was before this, and this is the most unlikly of the 2
II) So citizens could fight the British. In times of invasion you want as many people armed as possible so they can defend themselves on a local level.

I'm fully trained with the British LSW and SA80, but i don't like guns.
You have a responsibility to be albe to defend yourself, and your state, instea dof rely on others to do it for you. Should they fail or your skills be needed, they are there.
But the military and 'guns' are NOT good things, nor are they cool....
These things are there to take life, no more, what follows is politics, weapons are tools designed to kill another person, and the Military is th ehuman aspect that controls them. The fact they're there's a testimant to our barbarity and poor state of development as Humans...


and HUNTING? Do you need to hunt? Go down to your local organic shop and buy some real food, our systems got to the point here you don't need to hunt anymore, modern huntings just sefl-masterbation for those who lack identity as 'men' and must try to re-inforce some old instincts to give themselves something to assosiate themselves with and be Men.

Shooting animals when you dont NEED to, is pointless, sadistic, and self-masterbation.
Do you go out and club seals? Run over kittens? LEt loose a Glock in a puppys face? These are equally pointless in todays world, so why some and not the other?

First of all, to all the people who simply say 'blowing stuff up is fun, so guns are great!', you're exactly why people are afraid of guns and gun owners. Be responsible, realize that there are many people who dont understand shooting sports, and dont try and give them any ammunition to use in their fight against them.

I'm really interested in guns, its been my hobby for years to read up on them and shoot them. I dont do much hunting anymore, but I did alot of game bird hunting, and still shoot nuisance animals if I need to. My favorite though is target shooting, I have an old Kirkale Mauser and it makes for quite the target rifle when shooting within 300 or 400 meters. Very sweet shooter. I dont shoot my other guns that often.

As for vegetarians being merciful beings who never hurt animals, how wrong you are. Unless you walk through that wheat field and pick it by hand, you've just killed thousands of animals. I lived on a farm for a great many years and have seen tons of small critters that are killed by farm machinery. I suppose its just more fashionable to say 'i'm not an animal killer' if you dont do it directly, but indirectly, you're just as bad as a typical hunter. By the way, everything from perfume to shoes is made with animal products as well, so if you use any of that, you're guilty as well.

The notion that the US simply made Britian go home during the Revolution due to their unwillingness to spend the money is mostly true. However, they would have had no trouble and no expense stamping out a revolution of people armed with sticks instead of guns. America's people owning guns did, like it or not, cause the war to drag out and therefore become win-able. As Paine said, so long as we could keep a few men with their arms in the field against Britain, they could never win. The founding fathers saw to it that America always have this ability to defend itself from both foreign governments and their own, but unfortunately, there are those who would do away with one of our Rights, and for what? The statistics show that gun control is not effective (I'd rather avoid the gun control argument, but whatever), its simply an attempt at trampling the rights of law abiding citizens. An attempt to make a name for themselves up on the hill.

well I had assumed as much, my best friend's father does it all the time...they have a freezer of dismembered corpses on their back porch (it recently broke...I beleive his wife got bodily fluids all over her...sounds like fun), but people don't aim for squirrels when they're golfing - when little children try to knock birds out of trees with sharp rocks people think they're some kind of demented freak, but when grown men do what's essentially the same thing, people don't care? I don't get it.

What you're referring to, my dear, is FOOD. They hunted, they got their food, and they put it in the freezer.

It's no different from going to the supermarket and purchasing turkey breasts, except that it's a bit more honest because they killed it themselves, rather than letting it be mass killed by someone else for convenience.

As humans are omnivorous, meaning they eat both meat and vegetables, this is not at all a strange occurence. Someone who eats solely meat, or someone who eats solely vegetables, is much odder than the multitudes of the world who do both.

Farming destroys a lot of natural habitats, and kills lots of insects, small rodents, birds, fish and amphibians, reptiles, and even larger mammals such as deer, foxes, coyotes, etc, so I don't see vegetarianism as being a morally superior position. If you feel healthier for being a vegetarian, fine -- otherwise, you're still participating in the killing of animals.

Killing is something humans do, and has been done since the beginning of life. The little animals eat the plants, and the bigger animals eat the little animals, and so on. I believe in killing animals for food, as long as it is done in a humane way without torturing the animal or prolonging its pain. I also believe in killing in self defense or in defense of your loved ones. If someone is coming at me with a gun or knife, or is coming after my mother/father/sibling/friend, and I'm armed, I'm not going to let them hurt me or the people I care about. There ain't no way. Crime has increased because of gun laws and restrictions on guns. Criminals are called "criminals" or "outlaws" because they don't obey the law. They don't give a damn what the law says, and they'll continue to aquire weapons to terrorize the law-abidding people who have been disarmed by the same laws that are trying to protect them. If a criminal knows that a little old lady on the street is unarmed, he's going to mug her, take her valuables, and possible harm her. But, if there are no restrictions on the right to bear arms (sound familiar?), then that criminal is probably going to leave that little old lady alone because he doesn't know if she's got a Lugar in her handbag or not! Oh, and by the way, we have the Constitutional right to bear arms. Those evil white men who "stole this land from people unable to fight back" gave us the right to bear arms so that we can defend ourselves. And insidentally, they set up a damn good system, Anticarnivore, because if this country is so bad and so terrible, then why do we have all these illegal immigrants? Why is everyone and their grandmother trying to get into this country if it's the pits and isn't worth loving or defending? Every country has problems, has good sides and bad sides. But this place is still the best there is. Would you rather be living in a third-world country like those in Africa where tribal warfare leads to innocent, ill, and injured people being hacked to death in hospitals? No thanks. I say, give us guns, the knowledge of how, and more importantly when to use them properly, and God bless America!

- Dragonlady Ice Ember -

Wow...your a fool.
A 'gun' is a weapon designed primarily for one thing, to take the life of another person, do taking the lifes of others make America great? {looks at US history of butchery/expansionalism} oh...wait....
And so, with swords and spears in hand, the English cleaved their way across the island, desiring to rule the whole of it. And the French charged the English lines with lances ready as they trampled their hired German mercenary crossbowmen, and the English countered the attack with volleys of arrows that rained down upon the French knights, piercing both armor and flesh. And Hitler spread out across Europe, seizing lands, invading countries, and butchering Jews. And the Spartans and a few Athenians battled the Persian army at Thermopalyle. Napolean marched his armies into Russia to find burnt cities and a deadly winter.

My point is, a firearm is a weapon, just as a sword is, just as a club is, just as a fist is, just as a foot is. That, and just about every country/tribe/whatever in the world has killed the people of another country/tribe/whatever with a weapon, be it a firearm, spear, or even just a clenched fist. So, the US is no different in that department than any other country. Hell, the US hasn't been around nearly as long as some countries, which gives the US less time to spend killing people. And what about all of the battles fought with firearms that were for a good cause? Such as WWII, some genocidal maniac (obviously Hitler) takes power in Germany, he starts invading countries and killing thousands. What did the people who opposed him fight him off with? Guns. Suppose that the British and the Americans, and the Russians, and the Chinese, and everyone else who fought against him and his allies dissolved their militaries and, instead, just left their people with a few firearms per household with which to fight off the invaders themselves. What do you think would have happened? Sure, Hitler would have had a tough time taking over those countries, but he certainly could, with a better trained, better equipped, intelligent, and highly lethal military. That, and he would have tanks, and bombers, and such things with which he could attack the populace, while they could do nothing of the sort, having nothing with which to match or to combat those weapons, save for a few rifles and some pistols.

2nd Amendment right...that's only there for one of 2 reasons:
I) the 'old skool' batch of Us presidents and politicions, the intelligent onces who weren't yet fully corrupted, agreed with the French Anarchist Blanche {Circa 1800's} that the citizenry should be armed in order to defend itself in the case of an oppressive Govt and that people are slaves whenever the art of soldiery is given up to a proffesional army or military caste. I dont know the date of the 2nd ammendment but I'mn guessing it was before this, and this is the most unlikly of the 2
II) So citizens could fight the British. In times of invasion you want as many people armed as possible so they can defend themselves on a local level.

I'm fully trained with the British LSW and SA80, but i don't like guns.
You have a responsibility to be albe to defend yourself, and your state, instea dof rely on others to do it for you. Should they fail or your skills be needed, they are there.
But the military and 'guns' are NOT good things, nor are they cool....
These things are there to take life, no more, what follows is politics, weapons are tools designed to kill another person, and the Military is th ehuman aspect that controls them. The fact they're there's a testimant to our barbarity and poor state of development as Humans...

I suppose we should all kill ourselves because we suck. Or perhaps dissolve our military and destroy firearms. Then police could try to stop criminals with their hands, while the criminal stabs them, because he doesn't care about laws. Or those terrorists could take over that building with illegal firearms and the police can't do anything about it, since their weapons were taken away.


and HUNTING? Do you need to hunt? Go down to your local organic shop and buy some real food, our systems got to the point here you don't need to hunt anymore, modern huntings just sefl-masterbation for those who lack identity as 'men' and must try to re-inforce some old instincts to give themselves something to assosiate themselves with and be Men.

Do I need to hunt? Certainly not. I do, however, need to have fun. And I happen to enjoy hunting.

Shooting animals when you dont NEED to, is pointless, sadistic, and self-masterbation.

Hitting a ball with a racket, or dribbling a ball down a court, or hitting a ball with a bat and running around in a circle when you don't NEED to is pointless, idiotic, and what the hell is self-masturbation? I've heard masturbation, but never "self-masturbation."

Do you go out and club seals?

If I happen to be hunting seals and lack a firearm or blade, yes, why wouldn't I?

Run over kittens?

If I happen to be driving along and a kitten gets in my way, yes, I shall run it over without a second thought. Or if I happen to be hunting cats and my weapon of choice is a vehicle, I'll run it over then, too.

Let loose a Glock in a puppys face? These are equally pointless in todays world, so why some and not the other?

If I were hunting dogs with a Glock and a puppy happened to show its face close enough to me, yes, I will shoot it. I, or one of my friends, will likely kill its parents anyway.

Coming from Texan redneck stock (I have since recovered), I have been handling firearms from the day I was big enough to hold one. I am a very accurate shooter with rifles, less so with handguns. My personal favorite handgun was my glock 17 (pre ban days) and I just loved my old ruger 1022 rifle (fun and accurate, plus the ammo was cheap)

Jim

At the risk of sticking to the original subject: Guns fascinate me.

I am, however, British, which puts me at a distinct dis-advantage when it comes to aquiring them. Still, that doesn't bother me - they're expensive to buy, keep safely and the ammunition wouldn't exactly be cheap, either. My ineterest is almost exclusively academic, although I probably know enough to operate them without extensive training.

At the risk of sticking to the original subject: Guns fascinate me.

I am, however, British, which puts me at a distinct dis-advantage when it comes to aquiring them. Still, that doesn't bother me - they're expensive to buy, keep safely and the ammunition wouldn't exactly be cheap, either. My ineterest is almost exclusively academic, although I probably know enough to operate them without extensive training.
yeah irs pretty simple, you put ammo in the gun itself or in the clip, put the clip into the gun. turn off the safety, point it as something and pull the trigger, depending what type of gun you occasionally have to cock the hammer

At the risk of sticking to the original subject: Guns fascinate me.

I am, however, British, which puts me at a distinct dis-advantage when it comes to aquiring them. Still, that doesn't bother me - they're expensive to buy, keep safely and the ammunition wouldn't exactly be cheap, either. My ineterest is almost exclusively academic, although I probably know enough to operate them without extensive training.

Yes, but to handle them safely, If you ever have access to them, then you should take all the training you can get.

One thing far to many poeple forget, is that guns are not toys, and they were created to kill things. That is a great responsibility, and too many "gun-nuts" here in the States forget that with each right or freedom (in this case the right to bear arms) come the responsibility to use that right wisely.

Jim

Coming from Texan redneck stock (I have since recovered), I have been handling firearms from the day I was big enough to hold one. I am a very accurate shooter with rifles, less so with handguns. My personal favorite handgun was my glock 17 (pre ban days) and I just loved my old ruger 1022 rifle (fun and accurate, plus the ammo was cheap)

Jim
Yeah, the 10/22's are great rifles. I've only gotten to shoot one once, but I was thoroughly impressed. Were I to buy another modern gun, that's probably what it would be.

I enjoy the occasional firearm, but I really enjoy explosives more. I blow stuff up at my grammas farm all the time. I have so many fireworks in my room I can't even see my mantle. Oh yeah. Explosives Explosives Explosives...

I live in Belgium and i have a P08(7.65mm), GP35, J-model Mauser G98, Erma MP40 and an SKS Simonov(Old Baikal model).

I dont like modern weapons, i just try to collect old weapons because i like those. I'd still like to have a C96 or a PPsH41, but i've heard its hard to get the 7.62mmx25 ammo.(well, 7.65mm works too but the performance is much worse or i could try and get me a 9mm recalibartion kit).

Oh, I live in Belgium

sadism:

Noun
1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others. 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty. 3. Extreme cruelty.

specifically the "inflicting pain" and definition number 2. I don't understand the difference between enjoying killing things (hunting...I assume you people enjoy it), and sadism. Care to enlighten me?

In order for it to be sadism, you would have to believe it is "cruel". A lot of people do not consider hunting cruel. Therefore, hunters are deriving their pleasure from hunting and not from cruelty.

I own a BSA Supersport air rifle and a Umarex CPSport pistol. I use the Supersport for target work/hunting. Its in .22 cal. My pistol is used for target shooting and finishing off wounded quarry.

Why don't you people play airsoft instead? You can have VERY realistic replicas, full metal, AND you can shoot it at people and get away with it. If you need protection buy a friggin dog.



Watch Bowling for Columbine.

Yeah, the 10/22's are great rifles. I've only gotten to shoot one once, but I was thoroughly impressed. Were I to buy another modern gun, that's probably what it would be.

The 1022's do tend to encourage the "spray and pray" and "lead squirter" mentality (especially with a 30 round mag) though. To train a marksman, a single shot is far better.

I did have one friend who had a 7mm magnum rifle equiped with a 4x-12x scope attached, who would not shoot at a target farther than about 75 metres away. He did laugh when I (with no exprerience with scopes) earned a black eye.

Jim

my question isn't about paper targets, though the psychological implications of enjoying destruction (the only reason I can see for not resorting to less expensive video games), are the same there as any other recreational activity involving firearms.


Have you ever shot a gun?

I live in Belgium and i have a P08(7.65mm), GP35, J-model Mauser G98, Erma MP40 and an SKS Simonov(Old Baikal model).

I dont like modern weapons, i just try to collect old weapons because i like those. I'd still like to have a C96 or a PPsH41, but i've heard its hard to get the 7.62mmx25 ammo.(well, 7.65mm works too but the performance is much worse or i could try and get me a 9mm recalibartion kit).

Oh, I live in Belgium

I would love to own a c-96 mauser! I am a Star Wars fan after all.

Jim

From what i know its a very inaccurate but powerful weapon. I really dont know what it range is but i'd like to find out.

All of you. Well...most of you, are white-trash hicks. This is most wretched garbage I have ever read.

Killing is something humans do, and has been done since the beginning of life. The little animals eat the plants, and the bigger animals eat the little animals, and so on. I believe in killing animals for food, as long as it is done in a humane way without torturing the animal or prolonging its pain. I also believe in killing in self defense or in defense of your loved ones. If someone is coming at me with a gun or knife, or is coming after my mother/father/sibling/friend, and I'm armed, I'm not going to let them hurt me or the people I care about. There ain't no way. Crime has increased because of gun laws and restrictions on guns. Criminals are called "criminals" or "outlaws" because they don't obey the law. They don't give a damn what the law says, and they'll continue to aquire weapons to terrorize the law-abidding people who have been disarmed by the same laws that are trying to protect them. If a criminal knows that a little old lady on the street is unarmed, he's going to mug her, take her valuables, and possible harm her. But, if there are no restrictions on the right to bear arms (sound familiar?), then that criminal is probably going to leave that little old lady alone because he doesn't know if she's got a Lugar in her handbag or not! Oh, and by the way, we have the Constitutional right to bear arms. Those evil white men who "stole this land from people unable to fight back" gave us the right to bear arms so that we can defend ourselves. And insidentally, they set up a damn good system, Anticarnivore, because if this country is so bad and so terrible, then why do we have all these illegal immigrants? Why is everyone and their grandmother trying to get into this country if it's the pits and isn't worth loving or defending? Every country has problems, has good sides and bad sides. But this place is still the best there is. Would you rather be living in a third-world country like those in Africa where tribal warfare leads to innocent, ill, and injured people being hacked to death in hospitals? No thanks. I say, give us guns, the knowledge of how, and more importantly when to use them properly, and God bless America!

- Dragonlady Ice Ember -


WELL SAID.

Guns have caused the death and suffering of millions, but please don't forget they have also given us great things, these include:
Street lights
Advanced medical knowledge and capability
Advanced armour and defensive equipment
The ability to protect outselves more effectively.

And I would like to add the following quotes

"Last century over 170 million people were murdered by their own governments, and your government doesn’t want you to have a gun. Doesn’t that bother you just a little?"

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
-Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria

An armed society is a polite society.
-Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.
-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers

I do not own a gun. But if Kerry gets elected I will buy an AR-15 and as much ammo as I can afford. That Herman Munster stand in is scary!

I do not own a gun. But if Kerry gets elected I will buy an AR-15 and as much ammo as I can afford. That Herman Munster stand in is scary!


Ummm.....

:headbang:

Jim

Guns are the greatest invention EVER.

I love firearms. Nothing expresses freedom like the ability to blow something up :)

My favorite weapon is the FN FAL. Love'em to death. Too bad I won't be able to own one unless I dish out $1,500 a year for the full auto permits.

The full auto permit, the NFA "tax stamp" is payable one time only, upon purchase of the gun, it is 200 dollars.

He asked how many burgers you have eaten in your lifetime, not what you ate today. Have you ever eaten meat?

I'm vegetarian.

At the risk of sticking to the original subject: Guns fascinate me.

I am, however, British, which puts me at a distinct dis-advantage when it comes to aquiring them. Still, that doesn't bother me - they're expensive to buy, keep safely and the ammunition wouldn't exactly be cheap, either. My ineterest is almost exclusively academic, although I probably know enough to operate them without extensive training.
Yes, but to handle them safely, If you ever have access to them, then you should take all the training you can get.

One thing far to many poeple forget, is that guns are not toys, and they were created to kill things. That is a great responsibility, and too many "gun-nuts" here in the States forget that with each right or freedom (in this case the right to bear arms) come the responsibility to use that right wisely.

Jim
Very true: Another reason I'm planning on avoiding them, I'm pretty sure I'd get cocky.

All of you. Well...most of you, are white-trash hicks. This is most wretched garbage I have ever read.
Don't complain: You made the choice to read this thread.

All of you. Well...most of you, are white-trash hicks. This is most wretched garbage I have ever read.

Heh? I'm Jewish (Russian-Jewish), SAT 1400. Call me a white trash hick again and I'm after your head. :)

if you call me a white trash hick again im going to shoot you in the knee with my shiny new shotgun

if you call me a white trash hick again im going to shoot you in the knee with my shiny new shotgun
Subtle. ;)

I guess I am ignorant white trash to. *JIM*

jim

Pistols are cool - I have 2 CO2 ones they rock

And so, with swords and spears in hand, the English cleaved their way across the island, desiring to rule the whole of it. And the French charged the English lines with lances ready as they trampled their hired German mercenary crossbowmen, and the English countered the attack with volleys of arrows that rained down upon the French knights, piercing both armor and flesh. And Hitler spread out across Europe, seizing lands, invading countries, and butchering Jews. And the Spartans and a few Athenians battled the Persian army at Thermopalyle. Napolean marched his armies into Russia to find burnt cities and a deadly winter.

My point is, a firearm is a weapon, just as a sword is, just as a club is, just as a fist is, just as a foot is. That, and just about every country/tribe/whatever in the world has killed the people of another country/tribe/whatever with a weapon, be it a firearm, spear, or even just a clenched fist. So, the US is no different in that department than any other country. Hell, the US hasn't been around nearly as long as some countries, which gives the US less time to spend killing people. And what about all of the battles fought with firearms that were for a good cause? Such as WWII, some genocidal maniac (obviously Hitler) takes power in Germany, he starts invading countries and killing thousands. What did the people who opposed him fight him off with? Guns. Suppose that the British and the Americans, and the Russians, and the Chinese, and everyone else who fought against him and his allies dissolved their militaries and, instead, just left their people with a few firearms per household with which to fight off the invaders themselves. What do you think would have happened? Sure, Hitler would have had a tough time taking over those countries, but he certainly could, with a better trained, better equipped, intelligent, and highly lethal military. That, and he would have tanks, and bombers, and such things with which he could attack the populace, while they could do nothing of the sort, having nothing with which to match or to combat those weapons, save for a few rifles and some pistols.



I suppose we should all kill ourselves because we suck. Or perhaps dissolve our military and destroy firearms. Then police could try to stop criminals with their hands, while the criminal stabs them, because he doesn't care about laws. Or those terrorists could take over that building with illegal firearms and the police can't do anything about it, since their weapons were taken away.




Do I need to hunt? Certainly not. I do, however, need to have fun. And I happen to enjoy hunting.



Hitting a ball with a racket, or dribbling a ball down a court, or hitting a ball with a bat and running around in a circle when you don't NEED to is pointless, idiotic, and self-masturbation.



If I happen to be hunting seals and lack a firearm or blade, yes, why wouldn't I?



If I happen to be driving along and a kitten gets in my way, yes, I shall run it over without a second thought. Or if I happen to be hunting cats and my weapon of choice is a vehicle, I'll run it over then, too.



If I were hunting dogs with a Glock and a puppy happened to show its face close enough to me, yes, I will shoot it. I, or one of my friends, will likely kill its parents anyway.


To go through your points one by one...

-Yes, all countrys have a violent history, my point is the US above others has a very, very militant and expansionist history, short as it may be. Did i say other states hav't fought wars? NO

-Did i advocate the personal firearm only Anarchist idea? NO

-Do you want to bring the morality of useing a firearm and WWII into this?
Considering your countrys poor 'moral' performance in WWII, we were bad in not ding anything when we knew, but for what the US did....

-Do you think the CHINESE fought Hitler???!?!? NO, Japan for a period and there probably was the odd military advisor in a command post far,far away from the fighting, Nazi's in China'd be a new one on me...

-Are you a bloody fool? 'We should all kikll ouirselves cGause We sUcK' , NO I'm saying nothing like that, read it properly, in brief, WHAT ARE YOU ON AB OUT AND WERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM?
All i said was it's unfair to expect someone else to defend you and die for you. A responsible individual shouldn't RELY on hiding behind others.....
Terrorists? Stabbing cops? What are you on and can my friend buy some?

-Having fun, well, with that as yours justification, your more animal than Man.
Fuck it, i need to have fun, I'm going to get trollyed, do the most hardcore shit I can find then screw some hoe if she likes it or not....
The point being that WE DO NOT PANDER OUR PRIMAL INSTICTS, and let them dictate what we do, we should aim to rise above that, and not indulge in poitless self-indulgance.....
SEE next comments on this....

-Baseball? It's pointless eh? WEll, it dosen't satisfy a NEED, true, and those it dose can be equally satisfyed in a 'good hunt' but lets think for a moment, of something is pointless, in a NEED sence of the word, and someone dose it, what then makes it a right/wrong thing to do?
Well, Freedom is classicaly defined as the Right to anything that dosen;t infringe the Freedom of others, that dosen't have negative consequences on the world around you in a real sence, me calling you mindless prick would be one of those and would be on par with shooting a deer, both, pointless, infringe on someting else for no good reason other than a desire to do so. There is no NEED, but it is still done, and it's generaly accepted that satisfying WANTS that dont effect others or harm those/the world around you is an ok thing, hell, even in small moderation its accepted, so are we to let our desires overrule the life of other things when we dont NEED to? Am I to give into the WANT to call you a mindless prick, when I dont NEED to, because, like the deer, i am effecting the world around me {you} in a negative way for no reason and to no end outside personal satisfaction.

-As for your last points, I'm hoping your a child or this is embarrasing to us as a race....
I mean, such mindless comments, without any sence of empathy and with a total disregard of life due to the search for pleasure, primal furfilment and pandering to the luxuary of being able to partake in the WANTS show you to be several thoughsand years behind everyone else in the evolutionary ladder...
Hell with it, why not hunt humans? It's not liek that have feelings, and it is FUN to have a good hunt, we dont want to be a hypocrite now, so go on, hunt a cop or 2 for the challange...
If not, stop talking such 2nd rate, hypocritical COWARDLY above all, crap.

Have you ever shot a gun?


Don't be so goddam insulting trying to undermine an argument by lack of personal experiance....

I have shot many a gun, many a time so have a crack at me if your trying to find soft targets {no pun intended}, and I still dislike 'guns'

He asked how many burgers you have eaten in your lifetime, not what you ate today. Have you ever eaten meat?

And for a final getting-increasingly-pissed post,

Your going to have a crack at him for what? Eating meat he ndidnt personaly kill, butcher and prepare? I hate those that are willing to eat meat but completly unwilling to end life and prepare it equally, it's almost as cowardly as those who do it when not required.

SO what if he's a vegitarian?

I eat meat, and the very few times I've had to, I've killed and prepared a few things, but I have only ever done it when it was essential, disliked it but understood it as a necesity and do everything possible to avoid it.


We're animals, but we;re goddamn Men to so that dosen;'t give an excuse....

I almost forgot what it’s like to shoot a real gun. The last time I ever shot a gun was when I was eight. My family started moving around and my dad never did end up joining any other gun club. But now I’m old enough to get my own guns. Too bad college is so damn expensive.

Guns hehehe, I love guns. My favorite is Desert Eagles. :gundge: I also love Snipers.

Diabolic DJ

To go through your points one by one...

[QUOTE=The Peoples Scotland]-Yes, all countrys have a violent history, my point is the US above others has a very, very militant and expansionist history, short as it may be. Did i say other states hav't fought wars? NO

Did I say that you said other states haven't fought wars? No. What I was trying to say was, regardless of who it was, if they had that land to take, they would have taken it. Why? Because humans desire power and possessions. Would they have cared who they were taking it from? No, because they've done it throughout history.

-Did i advocate the personal firearm only Anarchist idea? NO

Okay.

-Do you want to bring the morality of useing a firearm and WWII into this?
Considering your countrys poor 'moral' performance in WWII, we were bad in not ding anything when we knew, but for what the US did....

Excuse me, but I have no idea what you're talking about here.

-Do you think the CHINESE fought Hitler???!?!? NO, Japan for a period and there probably was the odd military advisor in a command post far,far away from the fighting, Nazi's in China'd be a new one on me...

Did I not say "Hitler and his allies" Unless I'm completely wrong, Japan and Germany were allied.

-Are you a bloody fool? 'We should all kikll ouirselves cGause We sUcK' , NO I'm saying nothing like that, read it properly, in brief, WHAT ARE YOU ON AB OUT AND WERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM?
All i said was it's unfair to expect someone else to defend you and die for you. A responsible individual shouldn't RELY on hiding behind others.....
Terrorists? Stabbing cops? What are you on and can my friend buy some?

First of all, don't insult my grammar, spelling, or typing skills. Because, if you'll notice, the message I typed didn't look as horrid as the quote you supplied. And I said that because you were insulting man's evolution. Were you expecting Humans to be a special, Utopian, completely-different-from-nature species? Well, I've got news for you, we're still animals, intelligent enough to realize it's us in the mirror or not. And you know what that means? Violence. Whether it be in defense against predators or mauling our prey so we can eat it. And my point was, firearms do some good in the world, as you should have seen from the terrorist and cops being stabbed comments.


-Having fun, well, with that as yours justification, your more animal than Man.
Fuck it, i need to have fun, I'm going to get trollyed, do the most hardcore shit I can find then screw some hoe if she likes it or not....
The point being that WE DO NOT PANDER OUR PRIMAL INSTICTS, and let them dictate what we do, we should aim to rise above that, and not indulge in poitless self-indulgance.....

Wait wait wait. Man is an animal. When did that change? And why should we aim to rise completely above our instincts? Instincts work quite well in nature. Sure, we kill each other, but so do animals. And don't bring in that "not with firearms/nuclear weapons/whatever" crap. Because if they were intelligent and they could think of a more effective way to kill their rivals, they most certainly would. Man, who is an animal and that will never change, proved that quite well.



-Baseball? It's pointless eh? WEll, it dosen't satisfy a NEED, true, and those it dose can be equally satisfyed in a 'good hunt' but lets think for a moment, of something is pointless, in a NEED sence of the word, and someone dose it, what then makes it a right/wrong thing to do?
Well, Freedom is classicaly defined as the Right to anything that dosen;t infringe the Freedom of others, that dosen't have negative consequences on the world around you in a real sence, me calling you mindless prick would be one of those and would be on par with shooting a deer, both, pointless, infringe on someting else for no good reason other than a desire to do so. There is no NEED, but it is still done, and it's generaly accepted that satisfying WANTS that dont effect others or harm those/the world around you is an ok thing, hell, even in small moderation its accepted, so are we to let our desires overrule the life of other things when we dont NEED to? Am I to give into the WANT to call you a mindless prick, when I dont NEED to, because, like the deer, i am effecting the world around me {you} in a negative way for no reason and to no end outside personal satisfaction.

Call me a mindless prick, because I really won't care.

--As for your last points, I'm hoping your a child or this is embarrasing to us as a race....
I mean, such mindless comments, without any sence of empathy and with a total disregard of life due to the search for pleasure, primal furfilment and pandering to the luxuary of being able to partake in the WANTS show you to be several thoughsand years behind everyone else in the evolutionary ladder...
Hell with it, why not hunt humans? It's not liek that have feelings, and it is FUN to have a good hunt, we dont want to be a hypocrite now, so go on, hunt a cop or 2 for the challange...
If not, stop talking such 2nd rate, hypocritical COWARDLY above all, crap.

Only because of religion was life given a reason aside from passing on genes. Why should I care about that deer? It's going to die anyway. The massive gene pool of the deer species won't care about the loss of a couple. Besides, he likely has brothers and sisters to pass on genes.

And as for that last comment about hunting humans. For all you know, I may very well do that some day. Through something called the military. I would like to ask you, where did the "cowardly" comment come from? I didn't ask to be insulted. Did I truly insult you? I apologize if I did, because I posted it before I realized it.

To go through your points one by one...

-Yes, all countrys have a violent history, my point is the US above others has a very, very militant and expansionist history, short as it may be. Did I say other states havn't fought wars? NO

-Did I advocate the personal firearm only Anarchist idea? NO

-Do you want to bring the morality of using a firearm and WWII into this?
Considering your country's poor 'moral' performance in WWII, we were bad in not doing anything when we knew, but for what the US did....

-Do you think the CHINESE fought Hitler?(Only one punctation is needed.) NO, Japan for a period and there probably was the odd military advisor in a command post far,far away from the fighting, Nazis in China'd be a new one on me...

-Are you a bloody fool? 'We should all kikll ouirselves cGause We sUcK' (I hope to God this was in mockery.) , NO I'm saying nothing like that, read it properly, in brief, WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT AND WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM?
All i said was it's unfair to expect someone else to defend you and die for you. A responsible individual shouldn't RELY on hiding behind others.....
Terrorists? Stabbing cops? What are you on and can my friend buy some?

-Having fun, well, with that as your justification, you're more animal than man (Man is not a proper noun. Only capitalize it if it begins a sentence).
Fuck it, I need to have fun, I'm going to get trollied, do the most hardcore shit I can find then screw some ho (A hoe is a garden tool) if she likes it or not....
The point being that WE DO NOT PANDER TO OUR PRIMAL INSTICTS, and let them dictate what we do, we should aim to rise above that, and not indulge in pointless self-indulgance... (Only three periods are needed for an ellipses.
SEE next comments on this...

-Baseball? It's pointless, eh? Well, it doesn't satisfy a NEED, true, and those it does can be equally satisfied in a 'good hunt' but lets think for a moment, if something is pointless, in a NEED sense of the word, and someone does it, what then makes it a right/wrong thing to do? (I think that last sentence was a bit of a run on.)

Well, freedom (Freedom is not a proper noun.) is classicaly defined as the Right to anything that doesn't infringe the freedom of others, that doesn't have negative consequences on the world around you in a real sense, me calling you mindless prick would be one of those and would be on par with shooting a deer, both pointless, infringe on something else for no good reason other than a desire to do so. There is no NEED, but it is still done, and it's generally accepted that satisfying WANTS that dont effect others or harm those/the world around you (Wha?) is an ok thing, hell, even in small moderation its accepted, so are we to let our desires overrule the life of other things when we dont NEED to? Am I to give into the WANT to call you a mindless prick, when I dont NEED to, because, like the deer, i am affecting the world around me (you) in a negative way for no reason and to no end outside personal satisfaction.

-As for your last points, I'm hoping you're a child or this is embarrasing to us as a race...
I mean, such mindless comments, without any sence of empathy and with a total disregard of life due to the search for pleasure, primal fulfilment and pandering to the luxury of being able to partake in the WANTS show you to be several thousand years behind everyone else in the evolutionary ladder...
Hell with it, why not hunt humans? It's not like they have feelings, and it is FUN to have a good hunt, we dont want to be a hypocrite now, so go on, hunt a cop or two for the challange...
If not, stop talking such 2nd rate, hypocritical COWARDLY (Inappropriate adjective) above all, crap.

My god, I hope English isn't your first language. That was a doozy to go through.

As a machine, guns are awesome. They're finely engineered and very impressive in their abilities. However, I absolutely hate the purpose they serve.
I do not own a firearm, and I never intend to. I'd like to go to a range and put some holes in a sheet of paper sometime. I enjoy shooting my airsoft guns, too. Real guns, though, are technologically awesome but something I never want to see used for their intended purpose. I think the same thing about swords, of which I do own several for display purposes.
I respect other peoples' desire and right to own their own firearms, though. I suppose that home defense is a reasonable excuse for one. The people that I know that own guns have taken extensive safety courses and are very resposible with them. Criminals with guns, on the other hand, are impossible to eradicate as long as civilian gun ownership is allowed (which I believe it should be, and not just because of the constitution). Unless you completely cut off all civilian guns and allow firearms strictly for military and police use, some will invariably fall into the wrong hands. Such is life.

I enjoy shooting, but I am against hunting. If other people do it though, then that is them....not me. Me, I like to shoot at ranges, and occasionally in the back woods areas here.

Recently, I just baught a Glock 22 .40 caliber handgun, which I am schedualed to pick up in a couple of days. I can't wait!

Hey all....try this for stress relief:

http://home.ripway.com/2004-6/122850/guns.wmv

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show!

Here's another link too:

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/videos.html

And another:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/videos.html

Have fun! Also, check out the attachment too....

my question isn't about paper targets, though the psychological implications of enjoying destruction (the only reason I can see for not resorting to less expensive video games), are the same there as any other recreational activity involving firearms.

Well, many who hunt that I know eat the prey too, which is natural. I don't see what's wrong about enjoying natural stuff. :)