NationStates Jolt Archive

Genetic Engineering - while geneticists have mapped out the human genome . . . once they discover how to alter a person's intelligence and physical strength for the better (or at least increase a human's capacity for such), should humanity embrace this as our next step of "evolution" as a species?

The possibility intrigues me but I have my reservations - it would be difficult to implement the change on such a large scale, that humanity may not be able to undergo it. Also, much of the conservative world opposes ideas like this. I dont want to see a future where the world is sharply divided between the genetically enhanced and those who are not. And extending on this one scenario, I dont want the distrust between the two groups to spark a war or any sort of violence.

Everybody else, what are your ideas?

BUMP, I say

I doubt such a thing would be cheap, or available to everyone. So you have one level of people who are stronger, smarter, etc (or at least have the potential to be). Where does that leave other people in terms of jobs, or trying to get in to a good college or university. And you know some country is going to try to build a "super army", which will prompt other countries to do the same, and so on.

Then there is the inevitable arrogance which would come with being 'superior' to other members of the human race. It already exists in some forms, but I suspect this would excaberate it greatly.

Downsides ignored for a moment, it does have some potential for good causes. I just think it wouldn't balance well against the problems.

I'm writing a whole book on this and other forms of advanced technology. I happen to oppose it.

Hell, yeah. I want a monkey with four asses.

Your my little senorita. Y tu eres mas bonita. Your my little senorita, y tu eres mas bonita. You got it goin on. Hey hey hey.

I don't belive in genetic alteration. It goes aganst what the bible says and you play god in it. It will probably shorten lives and stuff.

I don't belive in genetic alteration. It goes aganst what the bible says and you play god in it. It will probably shorten lives and stuff.

Shorten lives? I would doubt it - I would expect it to lengthen lives, unless you are referring to cloning; in which the cloned animal is usually weaker than from the animal it was cloned from

I don't belive in genetic alteration. It goes aganst what the bible says and you play god in it. It will probably shorten lives and stuff.

Yeah, but you gotta admit a monkey with four asses is funny as hell.

I'm more interested in the possibilities to combat old age and all age related problems.

I don't belive in genetic alteration. It goes aganst what the bible says and you play god in it. It will probably shorten lives and stuff.
The Bible is a heap of lies and misinformation when combined with the morals of Christianity (see here (http://www.freewebs.com/see_the_truth/Revelation.html)). There is no proof of his existance either (I personally believe he exists, but that he is a deceitful, villainous alien being). Genetic engineering has the possibility to shorten lives though because of mutations that could be possibly lethal. But also consider the following: cells can be manipulated to create a protein that would remove plaque from arteries, a leading cause of death in people these days, saving millions of lives. There are also hundreds of hereditary (those passed down from your parents) diseases that could be cured from genetic engineering.

I am all for genetic alterations in people. Though one must be aware of its limits. The Genetic Code of humans simply encodes proteins, it is not a blue print for how the human body forms. It is possible to change hair colour, eye colour, skin colour, aggression levels, possibly reaction time, muscle growth, hereditary diseases; but NOT intelligence, limbs (there is a salamander that can do it with surgery but that's a nervous system reaction not a genetic reaction), cure for cancer probably even resistance (cancers are caused by mutations because of gene damage which is inevitable, gene repair proteins are already created in cells, but there are only so many times a gene can be repaired - hereditary cancers are the exception) and immortality (same as cancer resistance).

and immortality (same as cancer resistance).
Tell me more!!!! :eek: :)

Yeah, but you gotta admit a monkey with four asses is funny as hell.


Ya it would be pretty sweet, or a kangaroo with 6 asses

And there is plenty of proof that jesus is real and God is real, so show me proof that it doesn't exsist.


If people start to have disbelive in the lord, what will be left.

And there is plenty of proof that jesus is real and God is real, so show me proof that it doesn't exsist.


If people start to have disbelive in the lord, what will be left.
Where is this proof? Mind showing it?

Where is this proof? Mind showing it?
Jesus probably spoke to him. :D or he read it in the Bible.

There is proof, when was the last time you read the Bible, there is plenty of proof in the refrences they make.

they have found peices of Noahs ark, the stone tablets of the Commandments, there have been hundreds of other things that they have found, but i dont want to waste my friday listing them all

I cant force you all to be a christian, you can either love or hate the lord, its your choice.

And there is plenty of proof that jesus is real and God is real, so show me proof that it doesn't exsist.
If people start to have disbelive in the lord, what will be left.
Jesus was real and just as evil as God. He worked miracles and never taught how they were done, making people slaves to him. The is no proof that God is real (note that I do believe that he is, but he is not omnipotent, did not create the universe, did not create humanity (sanctioned it, the act was done by Lucifer) and is not in anyway benevolent (God and Jesus both demanded blood sacrifices, have in their name had billions of people killed, God never works miracles here on earth and never listens to your prayers, he doesn't even protect his followers)).
Humanity will enter a golden age once it has shed the shackles place upon them by God, we will lose nothing and gain everything we've lost.

Aging is caused by damage to the DNA which causes a general break down in cell health because of missing or mal-formed proteins. This causes cells to either die or stop functioning properly, which causes tissues to fail, then organs, then systems, then the organism.

you can be anti-christ all you want, but later you can tell me how the weather is in Hell.

you can be anti-christ all you want, but later you can tell me how the weather is in Hell.
Warm and sunny.

Those transhumanists, always advertising Lacus Clyne without telling us the risks.

The deepest layer in hell is reserved for those who worship satan or hate christ

Those transhumanists, always advertising Lacus Clyne without telling us the risks.
Thats why it needs to be researched to find out what the risks are.

The deepest layer in hell is reserved for those who worship satan or hate christ
And where do those go that do neither?

you can be anti-christ all you want, but later you can tell me how the weather is in Hell.
I don't know how nice the weather will be, hopefully cloudy but sadly I won't have a chance to after your soul is destroyed.

So you believe in the Nine Levels of Hell? I don't. Those were shown to whoever wrote about them by an Angel to inspire more fear into people so they would become christian and thus become weak.

Human genetic engineering is a really bad idea.

After all, it would create "superior" people who see the rest of humanity as a plague to be rid of. And the "normal" humans would see the genetically superior as monsters to be destroyed.

No, humanity is not ready to tamper with the building blocks of themselves.

Yet.

(And, according to Dante, the deepest layer in Hell is reserved for betrayers. Judas, Brutus, Cassius, Benedict Arnold, Satan, etc. I don't know how acurate Dante is; I'm not a theology scholar, nor do I intend to be.)

[QUOTE=Arenestho]I don't know how nice the weather will be, hopefully cloudy but sadly I won't have a chance to after your soul is destroyed.

And why would my soul be destroyed, i am a one of a few true followers, and when the rapture comes, how will you be treated.

Human genetic engineering is a really bad idea.

After all, it would create "superior" people who see the rest of humanity as a plague to be rid of. And the "normal" humans would see the genetically superior as monsters to be destroyed.

No, humanity is not ready to tamper with the building blocks of themselves.

Yet.

Exactly. I'm not in the mood to fight a race war.

The transhumanists promise this:
http://www.thai-toku-v3.us/torpong/seed/chara/lacus/lacus2.jpg

But they're going to end up giving us this:
http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/images/clipart/nuclear1.jpg

And why would my soul be destroyed, i am a one of a few true followers, and when the rapture comes, how will you be treated.
Note that I am basically a gnostic (true) satanist in all but writing and oath, my beliefs are different from yours. When I die I will go to Hell (if I'm lucky) and await reincarnation to continue my advance to godhood. I have no idea what the Rapture (I don't follow Christian bs) is so I can't reply. If it's the final battle, I will do whatever I can. I also believe that Xians go to Heaven where their souls are destroyed to create energy (our souls are electrical in nature).

I also believe that Xians go to Heaven where their souls are destroyed to create energy
Hmmm even God does recykling.

The rapture is where all the christians souls are shot into heaven and the unpure are left on earth to await their lives and either repent and go to heaven, or stay the same and go to hell.


And how can you hope to go to hell, it is a demention of enternal tourture and pain. I pity you and i will pray for all you prople to find the right path.

The rapture is where all the christians souls are shot into heaven and the unpure are left on earth to await their lives and either repent and go to heaven, or stay the same and go to hell.


And how can you hope to go to hell, it is a demention of enternal tourture and pain. I pity you and i will pray for all you prople to find the right path.
The right path being what you say it is, of course.

The rapture is where all the christians souls are shot into heaven and the unpure are left on earth to await their lives and either repent and go to heaven, or stay the same and go to hell.
And how can you hope to go to hell, it is a demention of enternal tourture and pain. I pity you and i will pray for all you prople to find the right path.
Ah.

My beliefs are different from yours, I believe that Hell is a paradise and that Heaven is the residance of the Angels and God where they plot the destruction of mankind and destroy the souls of Christians. I don't believe in the Xian version of Hell.

Pray all you want, God doesn't listen to your prayers.

thats what u think, you burn crosses and sacrafice chickens all you want, but i still know Christ is the way.

and how did this get so off topic



lets go back to genetics

thats what u think, you burn crosses and sacrafice chickens all you want, but i still know Christ is the way.
I have actually burned a cross before, from a school project. I don't sacrifce chickens or any other animal (including humans, we are just animals (Satanists sacrificing animals is greatly hyped up by people being idiots and thinking that satanism is about being evil and summoning horrible demons to kill people; the Knights Templar did not sarifice humans (references to them sacrificing children was really them using various bodily fluids that had the potential to be children in their rituals))), that is a Christian past time (see Here (http://www.freewebs.com/see_the_truth/Human%20Sacrifice%20and%20the%20Bible.html)) .

Use the edit button and I agree.

There is proof, when was the last time you read the Bible, there is plenty of proof in the refrences they make.

they have found peices of Noahs ark, the stone tablets of the Commandments, there have been hundreds of other things that they have found, but i dont want to waste my friday listing them all

I cant force you all to be a christian, you can either love or hate the lord, its your choice.
Where? Finding pieces of wood over 1,000 years old is quite a trick, as you may know.

Aging is caused by damage to the DNA which causes a general break down in cell health because of missing or mal-formed proteins. This causes cells to either die or stop functioning properly, which causes tissues to fail, then organs, then systems, then the organism.

Most scientists actually believe that aging is caused by DNA damage, yes. However, DNA damage *causes* missing or mal-formed proteins, not the other way around. DNA damage can be caused by the shortening of telomeres to the point that genes are being destroyed, by oxidation, exposure to certain chemicals or forms of radiation, injury, etc, etc, etc.

From what I’ve gathered from watching the Outer Limits, genetic engineering will be the end of us all.

From what I’ve gathered from watching the Outer Limits, genetic engineering will be the end of us all.

And Gundam SEED shows that despite yielding cute, pink-haired singers, it will create race war. That is enough for me to be skeptical of the supposed benefits of it.

Why does everyone assume that genetic engineering only has to do with trying to create super-babies? There are all sorts of diseases caused by genetic mutations. Some of these may be cured by using a retrovirus that expresses the correct version of the gene. However, a *great* deal more research is needed before many of these can come into common practice. The only one which has been used (in SCID patients) cured them for several years, but then they developed a strange form of leukemia and died. Reserachers are still unsure why.

Why does everyone assume that genetic engineering only has to do with trying to create super-babies? There are all sorts of diseases caused by genetic mutations. Some of these may be cured by using a retrovirus that expresses the correct version of the gene. However, a *great* deal more research is needed before many of these can come into common practice. The only one which has been used (in SCID patients) cured them for several years, but then they developed a strange form of leukemia and died. Reserachers are still unsure why.

I really don't have a problem with this. As long as I don't have to compete with the Kira Yamatos of your future GE-enhanced world, I don't mind, really.

Most scientists actually believe that aging is caused by DNA damage, yes. However, DNA damage *causes* missing or mal-formed proteins, not the other way around. DNA damage can be caused by the shortening of telomeres to the point that genes are being destroyed, by oxidation, exposure to certain chemicals or forms of radiation, injury, etc, etc, etc.

...................... *drools*, that is probably the smartest thing ive ever heard, it made my eye twitch

...................... *drools*, that is probably the smartest thing ive ever heard, it made my eye twitch

I'm sorry. Should I have said "aging happens because God wants it to and that's the end-all-be-all" instead?

Genetic Engineering - while geneticists have mapped out the human genome . . . once they discover how to alter a person's intelligence and physical strength for the better (or at least increase a human's capacity for such), should humanity embrace this as our next step of "evolution" as a species?

The possibility intrigues me but I have my reservations - it would be difficult to implement the change on such a large scale, that humanity may not be able to undergo it. Also, much of the conservative world opposes ideas like this. I dont want to see a future where the world is sharply divided between the genetically enhanced and those who are not. And extending on this one scenario, I dont want the distrust between the two groups to spark a war or any sort of violence.

Everybody else, what are your ideas?
I feel that as long as cloning doesn't have to be involved, or anything involving the destruction of embryos, I'm all for it. I'd be the first in line to get a perfect bod that needs no exercise to maintain, or a brain enhancement, or whatever they think of.

*The* key? No.
*A* key?
Quite probably.

We've doubled average human lifespans just by dealing with sewage, improving diets etc.
Clearing out the junk in our genetic code we've picked up over the ages isn't so terribly different to getting rid of the horse shit in the streets.

>Originally Posted by Urban Isle
>I don't belive in genetic alteration. It goes aganst what the bible says and >you play god in it. It will probably shorten lives and stuff.
Okay, I have to bite - *where* in the bible is there a reference to this sort of high technology?
And a question for you:
You don't get upset if a child of a builder has a set of plastic hammers, do you? Nor when the child of a truck driver plays with a model truck?
So why get upset if a Child of God wants to play at being like Daddy?

*The* key? No.
*A* key?
Quite probably.

We've doubled average human lifespans just by dealing with sewage, improving diets etc.
Clearing out the junk in our genetic code we've picked up over the ages isn't so terribly different to getting rid of the horse shit in the streets.

>Originally Posted by Urban Isle
>I don't belive in genetic alteration. It goes aganst what the bible says and >you play god in it. It will probably shorten lives and stuff.
Okay, I have to bite - *where* in the bible is there a reference to this sort of high technology?
And a question for you:
You don't get upset if a child of a builder has a set of plastic hammers, do you? Nor when the child of a truck driver plays with a model truck?
So why get upset if a Child of God wants to play at being like Daddy?
How on earth would removing the junk from our DNA extend life expectancy? Simple it won't. Those sets of code which we suspect hold no meaning don't contribute to aging because they don't create proteins that if the DNA was damaged would cause cell death. Until we know what every protein in the body is and where it is located in the Genome we don't know what is junk and what isn't, and we are far from that. We know the nucleic acid sequence of the Human Genome what we don't know what all of it does, yet.
Your analogy is good though.

Most scientists actually believe that aging is caused by DNA damage, yes. However, DNA damage *causes* missing or mal-formed proteins, not the other way around. DNA damage can be caused by the shortening of telomeres to the point that genes are being destroyed, by oxidation, exposure to certain chemicals or forms of radiation, injury, etc, etc, etc.
Isn't that what I said? Of course with examples of why DNA damage was occuring. If it was misinterpreted what you said was exactly what I meant.

And Gundam SEED shows that despite yielding cute, pink-haired singers, it will create race war. That is enough for me to be skeptical of the supposed benefits of it.
Guess what? Gundam SEED is fictional. Yes genetic engineering has the potential to cause race wars between 'pure' and 'modified' humans but it is avoidable. Should it be implemented Genetic engineering should be very strictly monitored by multi-national jurisdictions to keep the methods in and thus keep that from happening. Like Dempublicents said, it should be used primarily for removing hereditary diseases.

I feel that as long as cloning doesn't have to be involved, or anything involving the destruction of embryos, I'm all for it. I'd be the first in line to get a perfect bod that needs no exercise to maintain, or a brain enhancement, or whatever they think of.
Cloning would be involved so we could create one correct gene and then clone it millions of times to be used in millions of people, but not cloning of entire humans. One embryo can be destroyed, and millions of copies of its stem cells can be created so only one life (possibly from a soon to be aborted child) would be sacrificed to save millions.
Creating a perfect body would require a lot of engineering. It's possible to prevent muscle growth from being supressed by removing one protein. This would have adverse effects however and probably kill you a lot faster than normal.
Rumors of being given advanced intelligence are also highly overrated. It would be possible to create faster reaction times, but not intelligence atleast right now with our incredibly limited knowledge of the human mind.

Isn't that what I said? Of course with examples of why DNA damage was occuring. If it was misinterpreted what you said was exactly what I meant.

I believe you said that malformed proteins cause the DNA damage, which is pretty much the opposite of what I said. I may have just interpreted you wrong though.

Cloning would be involved so we could create one correct gene and then clone it millions of times to be used in millions of people, but not cloning of entire humans. One embryo can be destroyed, and millions of copies of its stem cells can be created so only one life (possibly from a soon to be aborted child) would be sacrificed to save millions.

Actually, the only cloning that would be necessary in most cases is cloning of the proper gene. There would be no embryo involved at all. The, the proper gene could be embedded in a retrovirus that would be used to cure whatever was wrong in a child or adult.

Under no circumstances that we currently know could a cells from a single embryo save millions of lives. Although there are less immune problems with embryonic stem cells, there are some and this is unlikely to go away other than with immunosupression of anyone receiving the cells.

However, therapeutic cloning to get person-specific stem cells (and then, if necessary, transfection of an improved gene into the cells) would be very useful.

Yep, sorry about that, I often have my writing misinterpreted, my mind works in really weird ways.

Okay, thanks for correcting me.

Arenestho wrote:
>How on earth would removing the junk from our DNA extend life expectancy? >Simple it won't.
Mongrels from imbred species - such as dogs and humans - tend to live longer. That indicates that the inbreeding has worsened the problem with recessive genetic defects, which is countered by breeding with other groups. Clearing out all of these gentic diseases should have a similar effect, only far greater.
Also, we haven't been selecting for lifespan, we've been selecting for the ability to reproduce. Keeling over and dying when you are no longer beneficial to your descendants can be a useful 'survival' strategy, so there are likely genes which has been selected for this purpose - removing them should both icrease average lifespan and (since when/how much you inherit affects people decisions about having children) help slow overpopulation.

Of course, you've raised a very important point - just because we don't know what something does doesn't mean it's not important! Quite the opposite - something too complicated to understand is probably handling incredibly complicated, vital tasks. (Also, even if a gene is inherently useless, other genes may have adapted to take advantage of what the useless gene is doing, so removing the useless gene may impair the function of other genes). Removing something which everyone has would be irresponsible - but once a gene has been shown to be harmful, replacing it with a gene which other humans has should be beneficial.

Meh ... grab your Gattaca DVD and look under Special Features for the Coda.

I quote:

screen, fading into the starfield. Following the initial lines, the text is accompanied by black-and-white portraits of historical figures. The text reads:

"In a few short years, scientists will have completed the Human Genome Project, the mapping of all genes that make up a human being.

We have now evolved to the point where we can direct our own evolution.

Had we acquired this knowledge sooner, the following people may never have been born:

Abraham Lincoln — Marfan Syndrome
Emily Dickinson — Manic Depression
Vincent Van Gogh — Epilepsy
Albert Einstein — Dyslexia
John F. Kennedy — Addison's Disease
Rita Hayworth — Alzheimer's Disease
Ray Charles — Primary Glaucoma
Stephen Hawking — Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis
Jackie Joyner-Kersee — Asthma

Of course, the other birth that may never have taken place is your own."

Preachy? Yeah ... but, hey ... see the movie. It's better than the Matrix.

Meh ... grab your Gattaca DVD and look under Special Features for the Coda.

Again, genetic engineering is not all about creating super-babies that conform to some standard. I would ask you how many wonderful artists and leaders don't get to do what they have the potential for because they die from genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis? Now, what if we could cure them so that they could live to their full potential?