NationStates Jolt Archive

The quote hits home doesn't it now? :S

The quote hits home doesn't it now? :S
It's a load of shit. What were their warcrimes? I don't think Bush gassed people for fun or shot people while watching Godfather, raped daughters in front of their parents, and executed 300,000 people for their religion, but the man Bush stopped did.

It's a load of shit. What were their warcrimes? I don't think Bush gassed people for fun or shot people while watching Godfather, raped daughters in front of their parents, and executed 300,000 people for their religion, but the man Bush stopped did.
You're right, I don't think we've killed that many Muslims yet.

The quote hits home doesn't it now? :S
The quote is so very appropriate and says it all.

It's a load of shit. What were their warcrimes? I don't think Bush gassed people for fun or shot people while watching Godfather, raped daughters in front of their parents, and executed 300,000 people for their religion, but the man Bush stopped did.
WOW!! You sent over 200,000 troops, killed over 10,000 Iraqis, killed a 1,000 coaltion forces, wounded thousands more, destroyed most of the infastructure to get ONE man. Simply amazing!! Book'em Dano.

It's a load of shit. What were their warcrimes? I don't think Bush gassed people for fun or shot while watching Godfather, raped daughters in front of their parents, and executed 300,000 people for their religion, but the man Bush stopped did.

Thier warcrimes....well...

*holding people WITHOUT ANY CONVICTIONS in Guantanamo Bay, (we actually find out that NONE of the capitives in Guantanamo have any links to terriost groups...that's right...NONE).

*killing over 30,000 - 100,000 innocent Iraqis (seems like dead Iraqis are normal in today's news),

*invading a country against UN approval

*Treating POW's (who originally committed petty crimes like stealing a toothbrush) against the Geneva convention.

*Using their own prisoners at home at slave labour (yes, that TV or Computer you have is probably assembled by prisoners if you live in the US).

*denying their own people freedom i.e. the PATRIOT act.
Also, please look past the person who said it and read the actual quote and applies it to the Bush Dictatorship.

Another nation that I got is "The Dictatorship of George Doublleya Bush" and read the little summary....doesn't it resemble the US under him?

*killing over 30,000 - 100,000 innocent Iraqis (seems like dead Iraqis are normal in today's news),

Not even IraqBodyCount.org goes this far. They claim 11k-13k. Not even half your lower end, and close to a tenth of your upper limit.

What's your source for these numbers?

*Treating POW's (who originally committed petty crimes like stealing a toothbrush) against the Geneva convention.

What's your source for the toothbrush claim?

*Using their own prisoners at home at slave labour (yes, that TV or Computer you have is probably assembled by prisoners if you live in the US).

Well, my Dell was made in Malaysia. I'm sure you have a source for this claim too.


But, really, keep jumping at shadows and don't let facts and reality get in the way of a good rant.

I linked here from the NS website & thought the title of this thread was "Who agrees with this pict". I thought we were going to debate Scottish history. :(

This is the 2nd time ive had to outsmart you damn Democrats, to actualy let you know that the media is full of fucking lies,

Subject: Fwd: FW: Interesting Letter from Iraq Army Medic

This informative letter is from a soldier in IRAQ. He is serving as a Medic of his IowaArmy National Guard unit. Following are the words of SFC Ray Reynolds:

As I head off to Baghdadfor the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I
wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They
have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am
sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week
leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is
happening in Iraqthat is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to
you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraqrecently:
(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
your paper/TV is putting out.)
* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored
there so education can occur.
* The portof Uhm Qasarwas renovated so grain can be off-loaded from
ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time
ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before
the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35%
before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are
in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side
with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to
prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
time in 30 years.
Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I
have met many, many people from Iraqthat want us there, and in a bad
way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about, but they
hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraqand I
challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. Ifyou
happen to see John Kerry, be sure to send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed. Email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.
Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion

*holding people WITHOUT ANY CONVICTIONS in Guantanamo Bay, (we actually find out that NONE of the capitives in Guantanamo have any links to terriost groups...that's right...NONE).

I think you are forgetting that 12 year old boy interned there, simply because he was one of the most dangerous people on the planet.

one would think the person who wrote that knew where the space bar was

This is the 2nd time ive had to outsmart you damn Democrats, to actualy let you know that the media is full of fucking lies,

Subject: Fwd: FW: Interesting Letter from Iraq Army Medic

This informative letter is from a soldier in IRAQ. He is serving as a Medic of his IowaArmy National Guard unit. Following are the words of SFC Ray Reynolds:

As I head off to Baghdadfor the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I
wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They
have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am
sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week
leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is
happening in Iraqthat is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to
you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraqrecently:
(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
your paper/TV is putting out.)
* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored
there so education can occur.
* The portof Uhm Qasarwas renovated so grain can be off-loaded from
ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time
ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before
the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35%
before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are
in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side
with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to
prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
time in 30 years.
Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I
have met many, many people from Iraqthat want us there, and in a bad
way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about, but they
hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraqand I
challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. Ifyou
happen to see John Kerry, be sure to send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed. Email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.
Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion

Ooh, an email. Good source.

Sorry, but I have recieved too many bogus emails to think that this is reliable.

And then theres that little torture of prisoners thingy. Oh no wait. Those are interigation methods.
Yeah. they belong up there.

And then theres that little torture of prisoners thingy. Oh no wait. Those are interigation methods.
Yeah. they belong up there.
Do you have a source for that?

Do you have a source for that?
For what?

I also I tune into FOX News every night to hear ever more propaganda and lies!

As opposed to CNN or the BBC for propaganda and lies.

The torture thing.

You never heard of Abu Ghraib?

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040607&s=editors

WOW!! You sent over 200,000 troops, killed over 10,000 Iraqis, killed a 1,000 coaltion forces, wounded thousands more, destroyed most of the infastructure to get ONE man. Simply amazing!! Book'em Dano.

And if we didnt do this there would be could be another 300,000 dead iraqis as well as even more dead americans than the losses of the coalition forces as of yet. And their infrastructure wouldnt even exist. I think to stop a man that has done that and could continue to do that is a worthy cause

And if we didnt do this there would be could be another 300,000 dead iraqis as well as even more dead americans than the losses of the coalition forces as of yet. And their infrastructure wouldnt even exist. I think to stop a man that has done that and could continue to do that is a worthy cause

Why would there be more dead Americans?

You never heard of Abu Ghraib?

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040607&s=editors
Maybe I should have made it clear that the comment was made in jest.

one would think the person who wrote that knew where the space bar was
OMG, you make me sick. You can't find any way to argue with what he says, so you pick apart his post with minor grammar mistakes. A truly Liberal practice.
BTW, you would think that the grammar police would know where the SHIFT and . buttons were.

Jello: Why would there be more dead americans? If you honestly think that there are/were no terrorists in Iraq, then you are a fool.

Jello: Why would there be more dead americans? If you honestly think that there are/were no terrorists in Iraq, then you are a fool.
There are terrorists in Iraq at the moment. But not before the war, imo. I am waiting to see evidence to prove me wrong.

This is the 2nd time ive had to outsmart you damn Democrats, to actualy let you know that the media is full of fucking lies,

Subject: Fwd: FW: Interesting Letter from Iraq Army Medic

This informative letter is from a soldier in IRAQ. He is serving as a Medic of his IowaArmy National Guard unit. Following are the words of SFC Ray Reynolds:

As I head off to Baghdadfor the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I
wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They
have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am
sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week
leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is
happening in Iraqthat is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to
you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraqrecently:
(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
your paper/TV is putting out.)

* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before
the war.


Since I have just a bit of knowledge regarding electrical generation, transmission and distribution, I thought I would look at this aspect of said email. I found it interesting to claim such, especially since war has been fought all over Iraq, and there had been widespread damage of the electrical infastructure. So what do we find as of today?

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/images/electricity_production.jpg

This creates a large hole in this email and gives rise to the credibility of the rest of the post? If you will note the drop of electrical distribution during April and May when there was a large insurgency against Coalition forces. This would make sense.

www.jibjab.com

This is the 2nd time ive had to outsmart you damn Democrats, to actualy let you know that the media is full of fucking lies,

Subject: Fwd: FW: Interesting Letter from Iraq Army Medic

This informative letter is from a soldier in IRAQ. He is serving as a Medic of his IowaArmy National Guard unit. Following are the words of SFC Ray Reynolds:

As I head off to Baghdadfor the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I
wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They
have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am
sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week
leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is
happening in Iraqthat is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to
you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraqrecently:
(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
your paper/TV is putting out.)

* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.


WOW 2 billion huh? The normal for Iraq pre-war was only around 2 Million, but it is even less than that due to sabotage.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3809587.stm

Sabotage attacks on a southern Iraqi oil pipeline have sharply reduced oil exports, the oil minister says.

Message to Kings of KTM, if you think can "outsmart" Democrats by posting bogus emails, you are dead wrong, and in the process, you make yourself look like the fool?

The war in Iraq to one side, the Bush administration should be tarred, feathered and paraded through Washington just for cheating (did you hicks hear me? I said CHEATING!) their way into office, denying constitutional rights to hundreds of thousands of voters, installing a (mind-bendingly) corrupt party that most people voted against.

Plus there's the fact that MonkeyMan is not in any shape to run a corner shop, let alone a nation. He can't even string a proper sentence together, bless. This is the man in charge of the Red Button? Fuck, I certainly feel safer.

Oh yeah, there's also that annoying little fact that Bush scares me more than Saddam ever did. And in my opinion more of a threat to world peace than Saddam.

I probably feel too strongly about this to make a comment. He is the only person on this whole planet that I would like to see dead. Only I don't want that, 'cause he'd just be martyred, and give an excuse to thousands of mouth-breathing hicks to go ahead and do whatever to whomever.

Anyway, the picture rocks, they should be tried for war crimes. I'm serious, they should.

The quote hits home doesn't it now? :S
Heard this one before. Bush is a Nazi! Bushes family is a Nazi! Forget everything you know about George H. W. Bush fighting in ww2 for America, the Bush family gave money to the Nazi's. OMG Conspiracy theory Michael Moore prodigy OMG!

I can't stand these self righteous left wing chuckleheads who compare the current administration to nazis. Well, why don't you ask a concentration camp survivor what the real nazis were like. Its actually insulting to those who truly lived under the Jackboot of facism. 'F' the Hague, 'f' the UN and 'f' all you self righteous left wing chuckleheads. Your kind disgust me.

d*mn fools. You people are complete fools. That quote claims that leaders can do whatever they want. That is simply not true, and any dumb f**k willing to believe it doesn't deserve to be in a free society.

If you all forgot Civics 101 here a reminder: The president CAN'T I repeat CAN'T declare war, only the senate and house can...which was elected by the people.

Well this administration did better then the last. Clinton gave a sh*t load of technology to the Chinesse! Simply because they were threatening to invade Tiawan.

'F' the Hague, 'f' the UN
Don't for get 'f' the US.

Thier warcrimes....well...

*invading a country against UN approval



You know what? FUCK the UN.

VW, are you French or German? Sounds so, since those two countries have always been on old Saddys side.

I can't stand these self righteous left wing chuckleheads who compare the current administration to nazis. Well, why don't you ask a concentration camp survivor what the real nazis were like. Its actually insulting to those who truly lived under the Jackboot of facism. 'F' the Hague, 'f' the UN and 'f' all you self righteous left wing chuckleheads. Your kind disgust me.
And I suppose that there are no right wing "self righteous" promoters that suggest that Kerry is a communist or worse? Extremists exist on both sides, and somewhere in between lies the truth?

Bush has an annoying stutter, and Kerry has the vocal skills and personality of a rock.

I think you are forgetting that 12 year old boy interned there, simply because he was one of the most dangerous people on the planet.
My favourite (sarcasm) besides that is the 12 year old girl fined for eating a French fry among other things..... Eating candy a US capital offence (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1091139010649&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724) (I know, this is off topic, but, I found this amusing).

Anyway, it is a war crime to invade another country because of BOTCHED intelligence reports.

Bush has an annoying stutter, and Kerry has the vocal skills and personality of a rock.
Kerry sounds like a winning proposition next to Dubya

As opposed to CNN or the BBC for propaganda and lies.Prove it.

VW, are you French or German? Sounds so, since those two countries have always been on old Saddys side.As have the UK and America in the war against Iran. Do you think anyone who can be shown to be involved in supporting Saddam (at any point) should be arrested for aiding terrorism?

Heard this one before. Bush is a Nazi! Bushes family is a Nazi! Forget everything you know about George H. W. Bush fighting in ww2 for America, the Bush family gave money to the Nazi's. OMG Conspiracy theory Michael Moore prodigy OMG!
As much as I agree, I think that maybe we should define what a "Nazi" is - it's someone who perscuted Jews and last I checked, Bush LOVED them, yeah, you know, that lovely adulterous affair with Israel?! So, I think it is inaccurate to say that, I prefer bloody fucking fascist religious fanatic dumbass redneck. ^_^

And I suppose that there are no right wing "self righteous" promoters that suggest that Kerry is a communist or worse? Extremists exist on both sides, and somewhere in between lies the truth?

This is true. They're extremist on both sides. However, I haven't really heard something like "Clinton is Stalin" all that much. If you can find something in the main stream that made that comparison, I will retract this statement.

Big choice of selections on the Poll :P

Ok, how many of the people on this Thread are A. Non-americans, B. Hippies, or C. Michael Moore. (or his fans).

I mean COME ON! If anything those should all be pictures of the members of the Ba'aath Party. Most of the Iraqis killed in Iraq are killed by TERRORISTS! I mean dont you watch the news? And its on BBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, and DW-TV (a german international news channel thats aslo in English). AND Fox. Plus, Iraq is better off than before the war in some ways. ITs just as safe. Before the Iraqi Army and Saddam would torture you, know terrorists will blow you up and behead you. At least the Iraqis dont have to worry about being SERIN GASSED TO DEATH like before. At leasts the Shi'ites arent BEING BURIED ALIVE IN MASS GRAVES! At least the Olympis Team isnt being TORTURED TO DEATH IF THEY DONT WIn GOLD MEDALS, like they used too. Iraqis have better jobs now, and they have more Water, Education, and jobs that DONT involve killing inoccent people. And Iraq DOES have better electricity, but it didnt earlier int eh year and during last year because we were fighting aninsurgency. YOu ought to be ASHAMED of yourselves. You want Saddam Huessein, who was probably the most EVIL man in the world (until he was captured) because he killed hundreds of thousands of people, enemies, (A.K.A. Iranians) and his own people! (A.K.A. Kurds, SHi'ites, opposistion parties, Olympic sportsmen, regular shmoes off the streets, and foreign diplomats) I wouldnt b surprised if most of you guys were French and german, seeing how they and Iraq made quite a few buisiness deals. What kinds? Oh, lets say france sent a Nuclear Generator to Iraq (but the israelis blew it up before it reached there), the Germans and French gave hem funds, and lets not forget the ole' Oil-for-food scandal.

Its worth pointing out that Uzbekistan is one of our allies on the war against terror. It borders onto Afghanistan and it allows US military bases within its borders. The US fund it $80 million, so everyone is happy!

But since no WMD have been found people have jumped on "Saddam is horrible" excuse. Well Uzbekistan is just as hellish to its people (boiling people alive, raping them with broken bottles etc), but since its a handy place to put troops we turn a diplomatic blind eye. Oh hang on, didn't we do that before with that Saddam fellow? Oh silly me - that must have been when he was nice and cuddly to his people :)

Sorry for the sarcasim, but I hate the way we play international chess with nations and seem to shove morals and human rights to the side. It comes back to haunt us, and no excuses in the world will change their people's suffering.

Nobody likes war, so being against war is always easy. It doesn't matter if lack of action causes hundreds of thousands dead. At least it when doing nothing, one can't be blamed for causing the deaths. It's the easy way out, just close your eyes and pretend there's nothing bad in the world.

And so what if sometime in the future the terrorists set of the big bomb. It's the problem of the future president, isn't it. Sending the blaim back in time cannot be easily done. Exactly which former president should be blamed for not doing something. There were several that should have done something, but what could they have done? As long as they supported all the UN sanctions, they did all they could, right? You can't blame someone for not starting an outright war!

The though choice is the choice Bush made. it was the difficult and unpopular decission, but the only choice that would make sure Saddam was not putting together something bad for the future.

People say that a war is the worst thing that can happen. It was true earlier. The two pworld wars, the korea war and vietnam and many before them were hell. Hell on earth. imagine being burried in a cold, wet, dirty trench, with lots of your dead buddies around you and then the mustard gas comes floating in.

The world wars killed millions of civilans, and dragged on for years. The last Iraqi war killed less than 15000 civillians and lasted a few months. Leaving Saddam Hussein and Iraq in "peace" would have killed many more people. Not right away, but it wouldn't take too long. After all massgraves with a couple of hundred thousand dead has been discovered, showing that sometimes "peace" is not better than a war.

Nationally all countries have a police with the authority to use force to uphold the peace. This is not controversial. Without the police we would have an effective anarchy. But internationally the use of force is not accepted. It's called war, and it's supposed to be much worse than just standing on the sideline while evil leaders oppresses their people, causing them to live in fear and poverty, or downright massacres them. It's weird that it is supposed to be better to allow this to happen, than to use force to stop it.

Edit: I think this poll shows a lack of comprehension and understanding that there is more than one way to look at these things. I think this kind of critizism is infantile and stupid.

Nobody likes war, so being against war is always easy. It doesn't matter if lack of action causes hundreds of thousands dead. At least it when doing nothing, one can't be blamed for causing the deaths. It's the easy way out, just close your eyes and pretend there's nothing bad in the world.

And so what if sometime in the future the terrorists set of the big bomb. It's the problem of the future president, isn't it. Sending the blaim back in time cannot be easily done. Exactly which former president should be blamed for not doing something. There were several that should have done something, but what could they have done? As long as they supported all the UN sanctions, they did all they could, right? You can't blame someone for not starting an outright war!

The though choice is the choice Bush made. it was the difficult and unpopular decission, but the only choice that would make sure Saddam was not putting together something bad for the future.

People say that a war is the worst thing that can happen. It was true earlier. The two pworld wars, the korea war and vietnam and many before them were hell. Hell on earth. imagine being burried in a cold, wet, dirty trench, with lots of your dead buddies around you and then the mustard gas comes floating in.

The world wars killed millions of civilans, and dragged on for years. The last Iraqi war killed less than 15000 civillians and lasted a few months. Leaving Saddam Hussein and Iraq in "peace" would have killed many more people. Not right away, but it wouldn't take too long. After all massgraves with a couple of hundred thousand dead has been discovered, showing that sometimes "peace" is not better than a war.

Nationally all countries have a police with the authority to use force to uphold the peace. This is not controversial. Without the police we would have an effective anarchy. But internationally the use of force is not accepted. It's called war, and it's supposed to be much worse than just standing on the sideline while evil leaders oppresses their people, causing them to live in fear and poverty, or downright massacres them. It's weird that it is supposed to be better to allow this to happen, than to use force to stop it.

Edit: I think this poll shows a lack of comprehension and understanding that there is more than one way to look at these things. I think this kind of critizism is infantile and stupid.

I agrre with Buggard. he has a better way with words than me (at least in writing) so i guess you should all pay more attention to his post, not mine. If you want to, go ahead, im just saying reading this would be better :)

You know what? FUCK the UN.

VW, are you French or German? Sounds so, since those two countries have always been on old Saddys side.

You know, just because you respect the UN or you are against the war in Iraq doesn't make you a French or German...
You should look around, there's plenty of US citizen who are unhappy (and quite vocally) with the current state of affairs. And I'm not only talking about Michael Moore.
Also, you should note that most Canadians on these boards are opposed to the war.

Another thing, the US put Saddam in power, so when you complain that someone is on Saddie's side, take a good long look at yourself. You used to be one.

You know, just because you respect the UN or you are against the war in Iraq doesn't make you a French or German...
You should look around, there's plenty of US citizen who are unhappy (and quite vocally) with the current state of affairs. And I'm not only talking about Michael Moore.
Also, you should note that most Canadians on these boards are opposed to the war.

Yes, that is very true. Just poll people on the streets and you'll find this is relatively true (i say this because there are the malcontents that support the war)

Thier warcrimes....well...

*holding people WITHOUT ANY CONVICTIONS in Guantanamo Bay, (we actually find out that NONE of the capitives in Guantanamo have any links to terriost groups...that's right...NONE).

*killing over 30,000 - 100,000 innocent Iraqis (seems like dead Iraqis are normal in today's news),

*invading a country against UN approval

*Treating POW's (who originally committed petty crimes like stealing a toothbrush) against the Geneva convention.

*Using their own prisoners at home at slave labour (yes, that TV or Computer you have is probably assembled by prisoners if you live in the US).

*denying their own people freedom i.e. the PATRIOT act.
Also, please look past the person who said it and read the actual quote and applies it to the Bush Dictatorship.

Another nation that I got is "The Dictatorship of George Doublleya Bush" and read the little summary....doesn't it resemble the US under him?

Can you think for yourself?

Nothing you just said is true.

You know, just because you respect the UN or you are against the war in Iraq doesn't make you a French or German...
You should look around, there's plenty of US citizen who are unhappy (and quite vocally) with the current state of affairs. And I'm not only talking about Michael Moore.
Also, you should note that most Canadians on these boards are opposed to the war.

Another thing, the US put Saddam in power, so when you complain that someone is on Saddie's side, take a good long look at yourself. You used to be one.

I aggree that alot of Americans and other people like the U.N., i liek the U.N. And America DID support Saddam, but he rose to power WITHOUT americas help. We did support him against Iran, but once he started being screwy and using chemicals we started helping Iran. And the thing is though, France and Germany aided Saddam almost right until he fell, American stopper supporting him about 18 years ago. And did you knowthat Saddam Hired a CANADIAN (but not the canadian government) to build a nuclear cannon that could lob shells into Iran almost 100 miles? While he was killed by the ISraelis before it was finished, it just goes to show all you Canadians that you ARENT the goody too shoes we-never-do-anything-bad types you say you are, there ARE bad canadians.

Big choice of selections on the Poll :P

Ok, how many of the people on this Thread are A. Non-americans, B. Hippies, or C. Michael Moore. (or his fans).

I mean COME ON! If anything those should all be pictures of the members of the Ba'aath Party. Most of the Iraqis killed in Iraq are killed by TERRORISTS! I mean dont you watch the news? And its on BBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, and DW-TV (a german international news channel thats aslo in English). AND Fox. Plus, Iraq is better off than before the war in some ways. ITs just as safe. Before the Iraqi Army and Saddam would torture you, know terrorists will blow you up and behead you. At least the Iraqis dont have to worry about being SERIN GASSED TO DEATH like before. At leasts the Shi'ites arent BEING BURIED ALIVE IN MASS GRAVES! At least the Olympis Team isnt being TORTURED TO DEATH IF THEY DONT WIn GOLD MEDALS, like they used too. Iraqis have better jobs now, and they have more Water, Education, and jobs that DONT involve killing inoccent people. And Iraq DOES have better electricity, but it didnt earlier int eh year and during last year because we were fighting aninsurgency. YOu ought to be ASHAMED of yourselves. You want Saddam Huessein, who was probably the most EVIL man in the world (until he was captured) because he killed hundreds of thousands of people, enemies, (A.K.A. Iranians) and his own people! (A.K.A. Kurds, SHi'ites, opposistion parties, Olympic sportsmen, regular shmoes off the streets, and foreign diplomats) I wouldnt b surprised if most of you guys were French and german, seeing how they and Iraq made quite a few buisiness deals. What kinds? Oh, lets say france sent a Nuclear Generator to Iraq (but the israelis blew it up before it reached there), the Germans and French gave hem funds, and lets not forget the ole' Oil-for-food scandal.

How much of this post is:

A. 100% Bullcrap?
B. 95% Bullcrap?
C. 90% Bullcrap?

Thanks for your opinion.

I aggree that alot of Americans and other people like the U.N., i liek the U.N. And America DID support Saddam, but he rose to power WITHOUT americas help. We did support him against Iran, but once he started being screwy and using chemicals we started helping Iran. And the thing is though, France and Germany aided Saddam almost right until he fell, American stopper supporting him about 18 years ago. And did you knowthat Saddam Hired a CANADIAN (but not the canadian government) to build a nuclear cannon that could lob shells into Iran almost 100 miles? While he was killed by the ISraelis before it was finished, it just goes to show all you Canadians that you ARENT the goody too shoes we-never-do-anything-bad types you say you are, there ARE bad canadians.

That isn't true, actually when he started using chemicals the U.S. increased support for him. I'm not going to say whether or not it was directly because of it, I don't know, but it did happen.

How much of this post is:

A. 100% Bullcrap?
B. 95% Bullcrap?
C. 90% Bullcrap?

Thanks for your opinion.

Listen budy, if you watched the News, READ the news, watch the History Channel, History Internation, Dixcovery Times Channel, Discovery Channel, and the Discovery Cilivization Channel as much as i do (which is about 70% of the time), you would know that my post is at LEAST 95% True

Thanks for your Blindness to the facts.

And did you knowthat Saddam Hired a CANADIAN (but not the canadian government) to build a nuclear cannon that could lob shells into Iran almost 100 miles? While he was killed by the ISraelis before it was finished, it just goes to show all you Canadians that you ARENT the goody too shoes we-never-do-anything-bad types you say you are, there ARE bad canadians.

Point taken. I commited the crime of generalisation in the same post as I was denouncing it from someone else.

However, you can understand the French willingness to let Saddam be. Their oil companies had legitimate contracts for the Iraqi oil. But the the sanctions came and the production had to be stopped however, the contracts were still valid. Next thing you know, the US invade, seize the oil and sell the oil patch to their companies.

Nobody is pure and using his morals in this whole situation.

I aggree that alot of Americans and other people like the U.N., i liek the U.N. And America DID support Saddam, but he rose to power WITHOUT americas help. We did support him against Iran, but once he started being screwy and using chemicals we started helping Iran. And the thing is though, France and Germany aided Saddam almost right until he fell, American stopper supporting him about 18 years ago. And did you knowthat Saddam Hired a CANADIAN (but not the canadian government) to build a nuclear cannon that could lob shells into Iran almost 100 miles? While he was killed by the ISraelis before it was finished, it just goes to show all you Canadians that you ARENT the goody too shoes we-never-do-anything-bad types you say you are, there ARE bad canadians.

Hmm ONE Canadian. Ya got us.. lmao :eek:

That isn't true, actually when he started using chemicals the U.S. increased support for him. I'm not going to say whether or not it was directly because of it, I don't know, but it did happen.

Thanks for disagreeing with me without flaming :)

* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
time in 30 years
Wha? Okay yeah, textbooks that are nothing but Saddam propoganda (probably what he's refering to) are bad, but don't take him out entirely, that'd be like a german history book leaving out hitler and saying from 1939-1945 the entire country was on vacation. also, I'd like to point out that everything has two sides to it. The media has not lied to us, merely chosen to show the negative instead of the positive. The real reason for this isn't some leftist agenda, its merely that no-one wants to hear good news. Bad news gets people to tune in /buy the paper. The media is too ratings/money driven.

Hmm ONE Canadian. Ya got us.. lmao :eek:

I wasnt trying to generalize, its just you guys always say your perfect, and in realy life i have nothing against Canadians :) Its just sometimes (generalization coming up) You guys get me SO FREAKIGN ANNOYED when yo blame everything on the U.S.!

Point taken. I commited the crime of generalisation in the same post as I was denouncing it from someone else.

However, you can understand the French willingness to let Saddam be. Their oil companies had legitimate contracts for the Iraqi oil. But the the sanctions came and the production had to be stopped however, the contracts were still valid. Next thing you know, the US invade, seize the oil and sell the oil patch to their companies.

Nobody is pure and using his morals in this whole situation.


I agree with you 87% on this, but the U.S. Oil countries were actually better off before the war (because after the war everyones scared of the big bad oil blowerupers)

Wha? Okay yeah, textbooks that are nothing but Saddam propoganda (probably what he's refering to) are bad, but don't take him out entirely, that'd be like a german history book leaving out hitler and saying from 1939-1945 the entire country was on vacation. also, I'd like to point out that everything has two sides to it. The media has not lied to us, merely chosen to show the negative instead of the positive. The real reason for this isn't some leftist agenda, its merely that no-one wants to hear good news. Bad news gets people to tune in /buy the paper. The media is too ratings/money driven.

I aree with yo 100% on that, except for Iraq it would be for the last 30 years the country was skiing in the alpines. I also agree that the Media (at least in the U.S.) only shows bad things, although i think they may have a political agenda as well, but at least its porven that they're money driven :)

Listen budy, if you watched the News, READ the news, watch the History Channel, History Internation, Dixcovery Times Channel, Discovery Channel, and the Discovery Cilivization Channel as much as i do (which is about 70% of the time), you would know that my post is at LEAST 95% True

Thanks for your Blindness to the facts.

Sorry if that last part is a little on the flame side, but you know, yo could at least LISTEN to what i have to say, instead of reading the first 3 words, saying "Oh, he supports the war" , and then dissing it. At least TELL me what you disagree with, and we can deal with this the gentlemens way, googling it :)

Listen budy, if you watched the News, READ the news, watch the History Channel, History Internation, Dixcovery Times Channel, Discovery Channel, and the Discovery Cilivization Channel as much as i do (which is about 70% of the time), you would know that my post is at LEAST 95% True

Thanks for your Blindness to the facts.
First off, my friend, I read lots of news, and I research what I post. I rarely make blanket statements such as those you posted, without putting up credible supporting references. I was particularly interested in your suggestion that the Iraqi infastructure was:

Iraqis have better jobs now, and they have more Water, Education, and jobs that DONT involve killing inoccent people. And Iraq DOES have better electricity, but it didnt earlier int eh year and during last year because we were fighting aninsurgency.

The lack of proper electrical power alone is a huge problem;

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/06/iraq_electricit.html

How a lack of power has impacted Iraq
While no one attack on power production and delivery in Iraq has been crippling, the aggregate of these small attacks has been. Today, seven of Iraq's 15 provinces get less than 8 hours of power a day. The remaining eight get only 9 to 15 a day. The direct impact of this electricity shortage is difficult to unwind, however, it is clear that it has had a signficant impact on the following areas:

Economics (and by extension employment). Companies require power for everything from computers to manufacturing machinery. The lack of power has idled companies and prevented an increase in employment. Currently, unemployment stands at 28-45% (see attached chart on employment).

Security. The rise in attacks on power systems (as well as oil systems) has caused the CPA and the Iraqi interim government to allocate nearly 30% of its forces (over 70,000 men) to infrastructure protection. This allocation of forces is at the expense of other security needs (anti-terrorism).

Legitmacy. A critical aspect of legitmacy is the ability of a government to keep vital infrastructure operational. Power disruptions served to undermine the CPAs popularity and will do the same with the interim government.

So bring forth countervailing info if you wish, but raw opinion isn't worth the powder to blow it to hell IMHO.

So no I don't buy your 95% true argument.

Do you have a source for that?

www.indymedia.org

Not left (although it may seems so if you're not looking carefully), not right either, just independent news. Indymedia is a collective of independent media organizations and hundreds of journalists offering grassroots, non-corporate coverage. Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth.

Just take a look.

First off, my friend, I read lots of news, and I research what I post. I rarely make blanket statements such as those you posted, without putting up credible supporting references. I was particularly interested in your suggestion that the Iraqi infastructure was:

Iraqis have better jobs now, and they have more Water, Education, and jobs that DONT involve killing inoccent people. And Iraq DOES have better electricity, but it didnt earlier int eh year and during last year because we were fighting aninsurgency.

The lack of proper electrical power alone is a huge problem;

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/06/iraq_electricit.html

How a lack of power has impacted Iraq
While no one attack on power production and delivery in Iraq has been crippling, the aggregate of these small attacks has been. Today, seven of Iraq's 15 provinces get less than 8 hours of power a day. The remaining eight get only 9 to 15 a day. The direct impact of this electricity shortage is difficult to unwind, however, it is clear that it has had a signficant impact on the following areas:

Economics (and by extension employment). Companies require power for everything from computers to manufacturing machinery. The lack of power has idled companies and prevented an increase in employment. Currently, unemployment stands at 28-45% (see attached chart on employment).

Security. The rise in attacks on power systems (as well as oil systems) has caused the CPA and the Iraqi interim government to allocate nearly 30% of its forces (over 70,000 men) to infrastructure protection. This allocation of forces is at the expense of other security needs (anti-terrorism).

Legitmacy. A critical aspect of legitmacy is the ability of a government to keep vital infrastructure operational. Power disruptions served to undermine the CPAs popularity and will do the same with the interim government.

So bring forth countervailing info if you wish, but raw opinion isn't worth the powder to blow it to hell IMHO.

So no I don't buy your 95% true argument.

if this is a recent news article, than i will hang my head in defeat.

And next time, can you at LEAST not Flame me? And call me a moron, can you tel me WHERE you found the fact BEFORE i respond?

ANd by the way, ive never heard of Global Guerillas, so unles theyre the secret codename for CNN, i doubt them.

PLUS, Iraq is in the middle of an Insurgency, what do you expect?

#1, At leas the Iraqis arent employed by Saddam

#2 do yu at LEAST agree that Saddam was evil? As long as you agree with that, i have no fight to pick with you.

#1 if this is a recent news article, than i will hang my head in defeat.

#2 You havent said anything about my OTHER statements, youve only messed with the power one.

#3 so it seems that i do have 95%right., unless you find somethign wron with the rest of the post :)
You are incorrect. I just disproved one of your allegations and if you bothered to check, you would notice that the date for the power chart even includes June of this year.

I am not about to go chasing down all of your other opinions, I will leave it up to YOU to back up your assertions. Then we can go on from there. So in the meantime, your post was just based upon opinion, which I find to be 95 to 100% bullcrap.

Now you say you watch a lot of news, and learning channels, etc., so bring forth your facts. Oh and good luck!! :rolleyes:

AGh,,, brain... hurting...so...much...political...disagreeing...must...go...play...a ...final .... fantasy...game..

You are incorrect. I just disproved one of your allegations and if you bothered to check, you would notice that the date for the power chart even includes June of this year.

I am not about to go chasing down all of your other opinions, I will leave it up to YOU to back up your assertions. Then we can go on from there. So in the meantime, your post was just based upon opinion, which I find to be 95 to 100% bullcrap.

Now you say you watch a lot of news, and learning channels, etc., so bring forth your facts. Oh and good luck!! :rolleyes:

Oh, and i changed my post, i agree that i have been bested and ofer my first born child as a sacrifice... or maybe ill just say im sorry and that you out-smarted me :)

All you Republicans are either forgetting or denying that America supported Saddam and sold him weapons throughout the whole period when Saddam was gasing his own people and executing any dissenters.

Do you really believe that the CIA did not have access to all that footage of Saddam purging the Iraqi Paliament when they decided to support him?

Lets face it, America's foriegn policy is all about supporting big business interests at the expense of the people in poor countries. Do you really think they care about democracy? If so then why an earth do they support the biggest, most corrupt Islamic Fundamentalist dictatorship in the region (Saudi Arabia)?

Do you really think they care about Democracy, what will happen if the Iraqi people vote to nationalize the oil resources and kick Halliburton out? Do you really think the neocon chicken-hawks are going to allow that?

I wish you guys would just admit it's an oil war. Give up on this whole bullshit about Iraqi Freedom. A much better argument is this:

"We need the oil for our economy, it's better that a semi-democratic country that respects freedom of speech controls it than a backward dictatorship with no respect for human rights"

At least then I could respect you for being honest!

It's a load of shit. What were their warcrimes? I don't think Bush gassed people for fun or shot people while watching Godfather, raped daughters in front of their parents, and executed 300,000 people for their religion, but the man Bush stopped did.

So far we've located something like 25,000 bodies. maybe it won't be long before we catch up with the *real* body count, not the propoganda one.

All you Republicans are either forgetting or denying that America supported Saddam and sold him weapons throughout the whole period when Saddam was gasing his own people and executing any dissenters.

Do you really believe that the CIA did not have access to all that footage of Saddam purging the Iraqi Paliament when they decided to support him?

Lets face it, America's foriegn policy is all about supporting big business interests at the expense of the people in poor countries. Do you really think they care about democracy? If so then why an earth do they support the biggest, most corrupt Islamic Fundamentalist dictatorship in the region (Saudi Arabia)?

Do you really think they care about Democracy, what will happen if the Iraqi people vote to nationalize the oil resources and kick Halliburton out? Do you really think the neocon chicken-hawks are going to allow that?

I wish you guys would just admit it's an oil war. Give up on this whole bullshit about Iraqi Freedom. A much better argument is this:

"We need the oil for our economy, it's better that a semi-democratic country that respects freedom of speech controls it than a backward dictatorship with no respect for human rights"

At least then I could respect you for being honest!

I NEVER denied the U.S. and Saddam were allies! I knew it all along! but that was EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO! And i do agree that this war was partially fought over Oil, and mayeb because Litle Bush was mad at the man bug bush couldnt kill, but it seemed that Taking out Iraq would show a message to the world. "Even if you survive the U.S. the first time, we'll be back to kick your sorry little butts!" Its not too long before N. Korea, Vietnam, and SOmalia follow.

So far we've located something like 25,000 bodies. maybe it won't be long before we catch up with the *real* body count, not the propoganda one.

And onion Pirates, you and i both know that Saddam killed at LEAST one hundred thousand people. Ever hear of Acid? And those bodies they found are just ones they found NOW! We also have all those dead Kurds and shi'ites from their uprisings after the first war. And dont forget the hundreds of thousands who died during the Iran-Iraq war, expecially the ones that were chemicalized.

This is the 2nd time ive had to outsmart you damn Democrats, to actualy let you know that the media is full of fucking lies,

Subject: Fwd: FW: Interesting Letter from Iraq Army Medic

This informative letter is from a soldier in IRAQ. He is serving as a Medic of his IowaArmy National Guard unit. Following are the words of SFC Ray Reynolds:

As I head off to Baghdadfor the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I
wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They
have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am
sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week
leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is
happening in Iraqthat is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to
you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraqrecently:
(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
your paper/TV is putting out.)
* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored
there so education can occur.
* The portof Uhm Qasarwas renovated so grain can be off-loaded from
ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time
ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before
the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35%
before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are
in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side
with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to
prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
time in 30 years.
Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I
have met many, many people from Iraqthat want us there, and in a bad
way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about, but they
hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraqand I
challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. Ifyou
happen to see John Kerry, be sure to send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed. Email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.
Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion


It sounds like heaven. Screw Orlando, Mildred, we're going to Baghdad!

If Bush spent half as much time as he does on vacation, maybe he could turn American into the paradise that Iraq is.

By the way, great source. I love e-mail chain letters. In fact, I get all of my news from them. Please e-mail the text of this post to 10 friends, or you will be stricken with dysentary.

The quote is good, the picture is kinda cliche.

Saddam is evil, and he did far worse than anything Bush has done in iraq so far, but that doesn't justify what Bush did. Saddam did indeed need eliminating, but it could have been done with far less innocent lives lost.

Saddam = evil
Bush administration = incompetant + slightly evil

It sounds like heaven. Screw Orlando, Mildred, we're going to Baghdad!

If Bush spent half as much time as he does on vacation, maybe he could turn American into the paradise that Iraq is.

By the way, great source. I love e-mail chain letters. In fact, I get all of my news from them. Please e-mail the text of this post to 10 friends, or you will be stricken with dysentary.

Something told me you watched Farenheit 9/11 Recently...

And, just to let you know, he stopped going on vacation so much afterwards.
I doubt any of you people blamming the president know HOW HARD IT IS! I mean, THe president of the U.S. is the most powerful man in the world, that mean he has more responsabilities thatn anyone else. The Man is haunted by Sept 11. HAUNTED. You would be too if you were president of the United States and some freaks went and killed mroe than 2,000 of you citizens. Being president is hard enough, being president when every step of the way your critized is harder, being president and being critized every step of the way AND having been preisdent during the Worst terrorist attack of all time on YOUR COUNTRY while you're president is the HARDEST. The mans just doing what he thinks is right to avoid another september 11th.

Something told me you watched Farenheit 9/11 Recently...

And, just to let you know, he stopped going on vacation so much afterwards.
I doubt any of you people blamming the president know HOW HARD IT IS! I mean, THe president of the U.S. is the most powerful man in the world, that mean he has more responsabilities thatn anyone else. The Man is haunted by Sept 11. HAUNTED. You would be too if you were president of the United States and some freaks went and killed mroe than 2,000 of you citizens. Being president is hard enough, being president when every step of the way your critized is harder, being president and being critized every step of the way AND having been preisdent during the Worst terrorist attack of all time on YOUR COUNTRY while you're president is the HARDEST. The mans just doing what he thinks is right to avoid another september 11th.
every other leader of every other country in the world has the same responsibilities bush does if not more

Ok now this is weird. I am very anti-Bush, but let I supported the war. We need Saddam out and I am sorry but the people on the left, my side, are very ill-informed. Now it is sad to see the left is full of idiots and listen to proganda from the left and say the right is the only side with it.
Iraq is better off now then before, but American soldiers are still dying. There you go right and left. We have done far greater works in the nations than Saddam, but we resorted to violence to do it. We needed to fight though. Shall we look at history.

American Revolution - 5,000 Americans dead, 7 years of indirect war.
War of 1812 - 3,000 Americans dead, 3 years of war.
Mexican American War - 13,000 Americans dead, 2 years
American Civil War - 557,000 Americans dead, 4 years of war.
Spanish-American War - 2,500 Americans dead, 3/4 a year of war.
World War I - 110,000 Americans dead, 1 year of war.
World War II - 415,000 Americans dead, 3 1/2 years of war.
Korean War - 33,651 Americans dead, 3 years of war.
Vietnam War - 58,168 Americans dead, 15 years of war.
Operation Just Cause, Invasion of Panama - 22 American soldiers dead. 14 days of war.
Operation Desert Storm - 293 Americans dead, 100 hours of war.
Operation Restore Hope - 18 Americans dead, 102 wounded, 2 days of street fighting, raids going on for over a year but no conflict with American troops.
War on Terror:
Operation Enduring Freedom - 149 Allied and American dead, 2 years of wars.
Operation Iraqi Freedom - 901 Americans dead, 1 1/2 years of war.


I may not have a PhD in common sense, reading, and math; but I am pretty sure for how long this war has been on, the death toll is tiny. Very tiny. Need I remind you Saddam killed 500,000 people, over 1,250,000 if you count the Iran-Iraq War. I say 1,050 dead is good for the time spent and the job we are doing.

Ok now this is weird. I am very anti-Bush, but let I supported the war. We need Saddam out and I am sorry but the people on the left, my side, are very ill-informed. Now it is sad to see the left is full of idiots and listen to proganda from the left and say the right is the only side with it.
Iraq is better off now then before, but American soldiers are still dying. There you go right and left. We have done far greater works in the nations than Saddam, but we resorted to violence to do it. We needed to fight though. Shall we look at history.

American Revolution - 5,000 Americans dead, 7 years of indirect war.
War of 1812 - 3,00 Americans dead, 3 years of war.
Mexican American War - 13,000 Americans dead, 2 years
American Civil War - 557,000 Americans dead, 4 years of war.
Spanish-American War - 2,500 Americans dead, 3/4 a year of war.
World War I - 110,000 Americans dead, 1 year of war.
World War II - 415,000 Americans dead, 3 1/2 years of war.
Korean War - 33,651 Americans dead, 3 years of war.
Vietnam War - 58,168 Americans dead, 15 years of war.
Operation Just Cause, Invasion of Panama - 22 American soldiers dead. 14 days of war.
Operation Desert Storm - 293 Americans dead, 100 hours of war.
Operation Restore Hope - 18 Americans dead, 102 wounded, 2 days of street fighting, raids going on for over a year but no conflict with American troops.
War on Terror:
Operation Enduring Freedom - 149 Allied and American dead, 2 years of wars.
Operation Iraqi Freedom - 901 Americans dead, 1 1/2 years of war.


I may not have a PhD in common sense, reading, and math; but I am pretty sure for how long this war has been on, the death toll is tiny. Very tiny. Need I remind you Saddam killed 500,000 people, over 1,250,000 if you count the Iran-Iraq War. I say 1,050 dead is good for the time spent and the job we are doing.

I agree, America was spoiled by Desert Storm, now we think that if we lose more than 300 people in a war its a lost cause and that the president should be hanged.

Aye, not hanged and not re-elected. ;)
People are forgetting, THIS IS A WAR! PEOPLE DIE

Exactly. And dont the people Remember, They Voted for War. COngress voted to go to war with Iraq, and Congress is the Supreme head of Government. And the congressmen are elected by YOU!

Seems we shut them up....
Aye, agree with you completely. Bush needed a better plan, but congress approved the war.

It has been brought to my attention that I did not post the death tolls of the other sides in all those wars. Unlike the USA, they don't post their causaluty list for they have something to hide. As well the Iraqi population has had a lot more deaths than the USA, but what your being lied to about is the dems, my side, keep saying it is Iraqi civilians. Wrong, this includes the soldiers. Most of the deaths are Iraqi soldiers, and many are civilians killed by terrorist acts.

And now instead of being tortured by Saddam, Iraqis live with the pleasure of being tortured by Coalition soldiers or being blown up by terrorists. :)

According to the History Channel some 2/3 of world's nations practice torture to extract information, etc. Guess we got 100+ nations to invade now.

I don't see torture as part of it. Hell going to an American jail is torture. ;) Mass murder and attempted Genocide is what we went after. As well Coalition troops aren't having a problem. I really don't see the problem with that prison scandal. A few troops got bored and had their type of fun. Out of 120,000 troops I am surprised there isn't over a 100 soldiers doing this, only a few. People blew it out of proportion. In Vietnam soldiers were doing drugs, having sex with gook prostitutes, and raping women. No one cared about that, but now they care less then 25 people are causing a few problems.

And did you knowthat Saddam Hired a CANADIAN (but not the canadian government) to build a nuclear cannon that could lob shells into Iran almost 100 miles? While he was killed by the ISraelis before it was finished, it just goes to show all you Canadians that you ARENT the goody too shoes we-never-do-anything-bad types you say you are, there ARE bad canadians.

Whatever.

You don't hear me bitching, because I don't care... and because my Windows teacher is a former nuclear scientist for Hussein. Yep, you heard me, I have a teacher who worked for him! *snicker* ;)

I believe that the Bush administration is lying to the american public and that the war is fought for the wrong reasons. Here's how I came to this conclusion:

(for the purpose of this post, I will use Bush to mean the entire administration. I'm not stupid enough to think it's all the president's fault)

Bush used every reason he could think of to invade Iraq. Here they are, in a chronological order:
- Bush link al-qaeda to Iraq. Prooved to be false later. Even the CIA said early it was not the case.
- Then, Bush bring evidence of Iraq trying to buy uranium. Prooved to be false.
-Third, Bush claims that hussein has huge stocks of WMD. No such weapon found yet.
-Bush then tries to use the old UN resolutions to justify invading before giving up on the UN entirely.
-Fourth, Bush claims is for the good of the Iraqi people.

This one is his catch-22 reason as it can never be prooved one way or another. The only one who could proove it to be false is the Iraqi people and if they rise up you can always call them remnants of Hussein's army or terrorist. I believe it's only an excuse because:

1. All his other reason failed to proove true.
2. Bush never mentioned it untill after the media and the UN inspectors prooved his other reasons to be, if not false, highly exaggerated.
3. In his TV speach before the war, Bush mentionned only once the Iraqi people and it was to ask them not to burn their oil fields.

Bush's action are also prooving to be inconsistent with his rethoric:
- The first objective taken was oil fields in the north of the country. Tell me how is that a immediate strategic objective?
- The army had strict order to not let any one mess with the oil ministry building in Bagdad while the museum across the street could be looted in braod daylight in front of the soldiers.
- The contract for rebuilding Iraq was only to coalition companies, none of them Iraqis. Hell, I even read in the New York times, Wall Street Journal and The Globe and Mail that Haliburton had signed a contract with the american government for the rebuilding of roads in Iraq. This was a month before Bush delivered his ultimatum to Iraq.
- Bush had to yield to tremendous politcal pressure before allowing the 9-11 commision, even more before giving them access to documents. The media had to pressure before Mrs. Rice was allowed to give testimony and Bush and Cheney didn't even testified under oath. That means they could have lied and nobody would be the wiser. They also hid as much as possible under the guise of national security.

Other elements that, while not incriminating Bush, look suspicious:
1. The patriot act. You can say what you want it is still taking away your rights.
2. The "enemy combattant" designation. Most of the liberals, myself included, think it's only a way to dodge the Geneva convention and POW rights by inventing a new term for POW. The supreme court seems to believe the same thing if you look at their recent rulings on Guantanamo Bay.
3. The double standards shown in going after Iraq but not North Korea. Personnally, I think that North Korea is a much bigger threat tu US territorial security that Iraq ever was.

Now, granted, all these points can be argued one by one and most of them can be explained away if you try hard enough. But you have to agree that there's an anormal amount of evidence, coincidence and half-truth. I think there's more than enough material for an impeachment procedure on president Bush. It is my belief that President Bush is lying to the american public and that the war in Iraq was for the only benefit of President Bush and his little circle of friends.

- Bush link al-qaeda to Iraq. Prooved to be false later. Even the CIA said early it was not the case.
- Then, Bush bring evidence of Iraq trying to buy uranium. Prooved to be false.
-Third, Bush claims that hussein has huge stocks of WMD. No such weapon found yet.
-Bush then tries to use the old UN resolutions to justify invading before giving up on the UN entirely.
-Fourth, Bush claims is for the good of the Iraqi people.
The 9/11 commission stated that Iraq and Al-qaeda had meetings, But Iraq wasnt linked to Sept.111
It was recently Proven that Iraq DID try to buy uranium, our good ole Friends at teh New and improved CIA and the British both recently released a report saying they did try to buy it. Saddam Used to have the WMDs ( you cant deny it) The Old U.N. resultions werent that great, (and they were mostly created by the U.S., so the US is at some fault) This was good for the Iraqi people. Is Being ina democracy worse than being under an evil dictator who kills people for fUN?

The 9/11 commission stated that Iraq and Al-qaeda had meetings, But Iraq wasnt linked to Sept.111
It was recently Proven that Iraq DID try to buy uranium, our good ole Friends at teh New and improved CIA and the British both recently released a report saying they did try to buy it. Saddam Used to have the WMDs ( you cant deny it) The Old U.N. resultions werent that great, (and they were mostly created by the U.S., so the US is at some fault) This was good for the Iraqi people. Is Being ina democracy worse than being under an evil dictator who kills people for fUN?

As I said in my closing statement, all the points can be disputed. It's the accumulation of points that lead me to conclude we're not being told the truth.
Some comments:
-al-qaeda/ iraq meetings: Al-quaeda tried to implant some terrorist camps in Iraq. Hussein basically said i'll get back to you. It is also common knowledge that Ossama Bin Laden and Saddam hated each other. Al-quaeda felt that Saddam was not enough like the taliban regime.
-Uranium: They tried and failed. The Bush administration told the UN that they succeeded in buying uranium. It was later prooved wrong.
-The Iraqi people condition: Nobody will disagree about the need to remove Saddam. We will disagree however that the war was for this reason. It is only a side-benefit for Bush.

I don't see torture as part of it. Hell going to an American jail is torture. ;) Mass murder and attempted Genocide is what we went after. As well Coalition troops aren't having a problem. I really don't see the problem with that prison scandal. A few troops got bored and had their type of fun. Out of 120,000 troops I am surprised there isn't over a 100 soldiers doing this, only a few. People blew it out of proportion. In Vietnam soldiers were doing drugs, having sex with gook prostitutes, and raping women. No one cared about that, but now they care less then 25 people are causing a few problems.
I totally disagree. You don't use the excuse of taking down Saddam because of his rape and torture tactics when your very own troops are comitting the same atrocities. :rolleyes:

BTW, it seems strange that they convict one soldier with little more than a slap on the wrist, just to demonstrate that the perpetrators are being dealt with and then.........silence. All of a sudden there is no further news on this topic. I wonder if that is due to the fact that the finger pointing had started and allegations that the Bush administration was or had been aware of the mistreatment of prisoners by the troops?

Anyone have any updates?

Something told me you watched Farenheit 9/11 Recently...

And, just to let you know, he stopped going on vacation so much afterwards.
I doubt any of you people blamming the president know HOW HARD IT IS! I mean, THe president of the U.S. is the most powerful man in the world, that mean he has more responsabilities thatn anyone else. The Man is haunted by Sept 11. HAUNTED. You would be too if you were president of the United States and some freaks went and killed mroe than 2,000 of you citizens. Being president is hard enough, being president when every step of the way your critized is harder, being president and being critized every step of the way AND having been preisdent during the Worst terrorist attack of all time on YOUR COUNTRY while you're president is the HARDEST. The mans just doing what he thinks is right to avoid another september 11th.

I'm glad Bush finally got his shit together, and spent a little more time in Washington. It was about time. And yes I did see Fahrenheit 911, but not recently. He should be haunted, he didn't do a very good job. And we're supposed to go easy on him because he's the president? We're not supposed to criticize him because he's thin-skinned and can't take any abuse? Fuck him. All of our presidents go throught the wringer. How do you think Clinton felt? Or the other Bush? Or Reagan? Or any president?

All presidents have to answer tough questions. I thought Bush had BALLS. I hear that so much here. And you're asking us to be sensitive to his feelings because it may comprimise his self-esteem? What kind of wussy liberal shit is that? I thought you conservatives were able to weather any storm?

I don't see torture as part of it. Hell going to an American jail is torture. ;) Mass murder and attempted Genocide is what we went after. As well Coalition troops aren't having a problem. I really don't see the problem with that prison scandal. A few troops got bored and had their type of fun. Out of 120,000 troops I am surprised there isn't over a 100 soldiers doing this, only a few. People blew it out of proportion. In Vietnam soldiers were doing drugs, having sex with gook prostitutes, and raping women. No one cared about that, but now they care less then 25 people are causing a few problems.

"Gook prostitutes?" What the fuck is wrong with you? Just having "their type of fun?" What kind of moral relativism is that? Is that your idea of fun? Is any kind of torture OK? Or is only the Bush brand fine with you? Get your act together.

It's a load of shit. What were their warcrimes? I don't think Bush gassed people for fun or shot people while watching Godfather, raped daughters in front of their parents, and executed 300,000 people for their religion, but the man Bush stopped did.

from the Taguba report on Abu Ghraib http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/taguba_report.htm

i. (S) Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;


k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

It's late, so I'm just going to say this in the plainest of manners:

holding the leader of a country prisoner without a declaration of war is a war crime

Lying to invade a country is a public crime. If Clinton could almost get impeached for lying about a girl, then certainly, Bush can have a hearing and such for lying about everything.

Also, I'd like to add a famous anonymous quote (I don't know if it's anonymous or not, but it is to me).

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU DO, IT'S HOW YOU DO IT

And I'd like to say that Bush did a very good thing in a very bad way, and in such a way that we are now stuck in a power struggle for at least a few years.

Thanks for disagreeing with me without flaming :)

You're quite welcome.

I totally disagree. You don't use the excuse of taking down Saddam because of his rape and torture tactics when your very own troops are comitting the same atrocities. :rolleyes:

BTW, it seems strange that they convict one soldier with little more than a slap on the wrist, just to demonstrate that the perpetrators are being dealt with and then.........silence. All of a sudden there is no further news on this topic. I wonder if that is due to the fact that the finger pointing had started and allegations that the Bush administration was or had been aware of the mistreatment of prisoners by the troops?

Anyone have any updates?

American Soldiers are NOT raping people.

I'm glad Bush finally got his shit together, and spent a little more time in Washington. It was about time. And yes I did see Fahrenheit 911, but not recently. He should be haunted, he didn't do a very good job. And we're supposed to go easy on him because he's the president? We're not supposed to criticize him because he's thin-skinned and can't take any abuse? Fuck him. All of our presidents go throught the wringer. How do you think Clinton felt? Or the other Bush? Or Reagan? Or any president?

All presidents have to answer tough questions. I thought Bush had BALLS. I hear that so much here. And you're asking us to be sensitive to his feelings because it may comprimise his self-esteem? What kind of wussy liberal shit is that? I thought you conservatives were able to weather any storm?

i didnt say "Be sensitive" Im just saying hes doing what he thinks is right. And if defying the world to make your country safer isnt having balls, what is?

American Soldiers are NOT raping people.
except for the ones raping people

I also I tune into FOX <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=News&v=56">News</a> every night to hear ever more propaganda and lies!

As opposed to CNN or the BBC for propaganda and lies.


Oh yeah, my bad....I should of included them.

Ok now this is weird. I am very anti-Bush, but let I supported the war. We need Saddam out and I am sorry but the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=56">people</a> on the left, my side, are very ill-informed. Now it is sad to see the left is full of idiots and listen to proganda from the left and say the right is the only side with it.
Iraq is better off now then before, but American soldiers are still dying. There you go right and left. We have done far greater works in the nations than Saddam, but we resorted to violence to do it. We needed to fight though. Shall we look at history.

American Revolution - 5,000 Americans dead, 7 years of indirect war.
War of 1812 - 3,000 Americans dead, 3 years of war.
Mexican American War - 13,000 Americans dead, 2 years
American Civil War - 557,000 Americans dead, 4 years of war.
Spanish-American War - 2,500 Americans dead, 3/4 a year of war.
World War I - 110,000 Americans dead, 1 year of war.
World War II - 415,000 Americans dead, 3 1/2 years of war.
Korean War - 33,651 Americans dead, 3 years of war.
Vietnam War - 58,168 Americans dead, 15 years of war.
Operation Just Cause, Invasion of Panama - 22 American soldiers dead. 14 days of war.
Operation Desert Storm - 293 Americans dead, 100 hours of war.
Operation Restore Hope - 18 Americans dead, 102 wounded, 2 days of street fighting, raids going on for over a year but no conflict with American troops.
War on Terror:
Operation Enduring Freedom - 149 Allied and American dead, 2 years of wars.
Operation Iraqi Freedom - 901 Americans dead, 1 1/2 years of war.


I may not have a PhD in common sense, reading, and math; but I am pretty sure for how long this war has been on, the death toll is tiny. Very tiny. Need I remind you Saddam killed 500,000 <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=56">people</a>, over 1,250,000 if you count the Iran-Iraq War. I say 1,050 dead is good for the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=time&v=56">time</a> spent and the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=job&v=56">job</a> we are doing.

mmm...let's see, that iraq figure's a bit over a thousand now, but please do the ratios...they're quite high.

let us not forget the lie stunt that CNN and the BBC did...you know the statue of Saddam falling down with Iraqis pulling it down.....BUSH flew in some of his arab mates to do that and oridnary Iraqis were not allowed in the square......a good sign of that lie is when you get a shot of one of the "iraqis" with a D.A.R.E. (a US-based carity) t-shirt on...come on!

except for the ones raping people

Which are maybe 10-20 people outta 120,000 :mp5:

P.S. Nice sig by the way :)

let us not forget the lie stunt that CNN and the BBC did...you know the statue of Saddam falling down with Iraqis pulling it down.....BUSH flew in some of his arab mates to do that and oridnary Iraqis were not allowed in the square......a good sign of that lie is when you get a shot of one of the "iraqis" with a D.A.R.E. (a US-based carity) t-shirt on...come on!

No offence intended, but do you have proof thats NOT from a tabloid? Like from some major news corporation. Everyone knows all News stations hates bush except for Fox, and Fox come under ridicule only because it doesnt say bad things about bush. :/

Thier warcrimes....well...

*holding people WITHOUT ANY CONVICTIONS in Guantanamo Bay, (we actually find out that NONE of the capitives in Guantanamo have any links to terriost groups...that's right...NONE).
Your source, please?

*killing over 30,000 - 100,000 innocent Iraqis (seems like dead Iraqis are normal in today's news).
Your source, please?

*invading a country against UN approval.
True dat.

*Treating POW's (who originally committed petty crimes like stealing a toothbrush) against the Geneva convention).
We have proof of it happening in one place, yes. And those who did it are being prosecuted -- so that certainly argues that the orders came from the top, doesn't it?

*Using their own prisoners at home at slave labour (yes, that TV or Computer you have is probably assembled by prisoners if you live in the US).
Source, please?

*denying their own people freedom i.e. the PATRIOT act.
Also, please look past the person who said it and read the actual quote and applies it to the Bush Dictatorship.
I agree, esp. The Fourth Amendment is trampled to death under this travesty.

Another nation that I got is "The Dictatorship of George Doublleya Bush" and read the little summary....doesn't it resemble the US under him?

I don't know -- how much do you actually know about living in the United States?

This is the 2nd time ive had to outsmart you damn Democrats, to actualy let you know that the media is full of fucking lies,

Subject: Fwd: FW: Interesting Letter from Iraq Army Medic

This informative letter is from a soldier in IRAQ. He is serving as a Medic of his IowaArmy National Guard unit. Following are the words of SFC Ray Reynolds:

As I head off to Baghdadfor the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I
wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They
have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am
sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week
leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is
happening in Iraqthat is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to
you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraqrecently:
(Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that
your paper/TV is putting out.)
* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored
there so education can occur.
* The portof Uhm Qasarwas renovated so grain can be off-loaded from
ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time
ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before
the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35%
before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are
in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side
with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to
prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
time in 30 years.
Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I
have met many, many people from Iraqthat want us there, and in a bad
way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about, but they
hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraqand I
challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. Ifyou
happen to see John Kerry, be sure to send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed. Email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.
Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion

Nice. Source?

i just have one question, if liberals and such feel that we have no right to police the world, no right to tell others what to do, and no right to remove evil dictators from power, then why do the liberals get upset when we dont do those things? also, why do all of the democrats turn their heads whenever somebody mentions the things bill clinton did in office, and im not even talking about the affair, im talking about the aerial bombardment of kosovo, which i agree with though i am conservative because the things happening in kosovo were horrible and needed to be stopped, but if bush would have ordered this, liberals would have gone into a frenzy!!! clinton also gave nuclear secrets to china, which by the way, china now has the ability to send icbm's with nuclear warheads virtually anywhere in the world, and he also ordered a little air assault on baghdad in 1998 i believe it was? yet, unlike bush, he had no excuse whatsoever, i am disappointed that we didnt find WMD's in iraq and i am also disappointed in our government for following false allocations, but i still support my president, and will do my part to ensure that he is my president for another 4 years come this november ;)

i just have one question, if liberals and such feel that we have no right to police the world, no right to tell others what to do, and no right to remove evil dictators from power, then why do the liberals get upset when we dont do those things? also, why do all of the democrats turn their heads whenever somebody mentions the things bill clinton did in office, and im not even talking about the affair, im talking about the aerial bombardment of kosovo, which i agree with though i am conservative because the things happening in kosovo were horrible and needed to be stopped, but if bush would have ordered this, liberals would have gone into a frenzy!!! clinton also gave nuclear secrets to china, which by the way, china now has the ability to send icbm's with nuclear warheads virtually anywhere in the world, and he also ordered a little air assault on baghdad in 1998 i believe it was? yet, unlike bush, he had no excuse whatsoever, i am disappointed that we didnt find WMD's in iraq and i am also disappointed in our government for following false allocations, but i still support my president, and will do my part to ensure that he is my president for another 4 years come this november ;)

I agree with you, In reality the Democrats are jsut blaming bush because thats the onl yway they'll get into office, and i assure you whatever Kerry does, even if it EXACLTY the same as bush, the Republicans will blam them.

My favourite (sarcasm) besides that is the 12 year old girl fined for eating a French fry among other things..... Eating candy a US capital offence (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1091139010649&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724) (I know, this is off topic, but, I found this amusing).

Please at least tell the truth about it -- it is not a capital offense. It is not even a capitol offense. She ate in the Metro, which is kept spotless and does not look like a sewer (like NYC Subways). It is posted that you cannot eat or drink in the Metro. She got written a ticket for breaking the rules.

In Singapore, they caned that young man who spray painted grafitti -- which would you rather?

lightning star, im gald you agree with me, and yes i think youre correct and that if kerry is elected, conservatives will do the same things liberals do with bush, which is truly too bad because this means, no matter what your political leanings, neither side will ever prove to be better than the other, simply because all either side will do is bash the other side, which solves nothing, yet causes tentions between people who otherwise would have no problem with eachother

Something told me you watched Farenheit 9/11 Recently...

And, just to let you know, he stopped going on vacation so much afterwards.
I doubt any of you people blamming the president know HOW HARD IT IS! I mean, THe president of the U.S. is the most powerful man in the world, that mean he has more responsabilities thatn anyone else. The Man is haunted by Sept 11. HAUNTED. You would be too if you were president of the United States and some freaks went and killed mroe than 2,000 of you citizens. Being president is hard enough, being president when every step of the way your critized is harder, being president and being critized every step of the way AND having been preisdent during the Worst terrorist attack of all time on YOUR COUNTRY while you're president is the HARDEST. The mans just doing what he thinks is right to avoid another september 11th.

PLEASE. If the job was so horrible, he would NOT BE SEEKING REELECTION.

I believe that the Bush administration is lying to the american public and that the war is fought for the wrong reasons. Here's how I came to this conclusion:

(for the purpose of this post, I will use Bush to mean the entire administration. I'm not stupid enough to think it's all the president's fault)

Bush used every reason he could think of to invade Iraq. Here they are, in a chronological order:
- Bush link al-qaeda to Iraq. Prooved to be false later. Even the CIA said early it was not the case.
- Then, Bush bring evidence of Iraq trying to buy uranium. Prooved to be false.
-Third, Bush claims that hussein has huge stocks of WMD. No such weapon found yet.
-Bush then tries to use the old UN resolutions to justify invading before giving up on the UN entirely.
-Fourth, Bush claims is for the good of the Iraqi people.

This one is his catch-22 reason as it can never be prooved one way or another. The only one who could proove it to be false is the Iraqi people and if they rise up you can always call them remnants of Hussein's army or terrorist. I believe it's only an excuse because:

1. All his other reason failed to proove true.
2. Bush never mentioned it untill after the media and the UN inspectors prooved his other reasons to be, if not false, highly exaggerated.
3. In his TV speach before the war, Bush mentionned only once the Iraqi people and it was to ask them not to burn their oil fields.

Bush's action are also prooving to be inconsistent with his rethoric:
- The first objective taken was oil fields in the north of the country. Tell me how is that a immediate strategic objective?
- The army had strict order to not let any one mess with the oil ministry building in Bagdad while the museum across the street could be looted in braod daylight in front of the soldiers.
- The contract for rebuilding Iraq was only to coalition companies, none of them Iraqis. Hell, I even read in the New York times, Wall Street Journal and The Globe and Mail that Haliburton had signed a contract with the american government for the rebuilding of roads in Iraq. This was a month before Bush delivered his ultimatum to Iraq.
- Bush had to yield to tremendous politcal pressure before allowing the 9-11 commision, even more before giving them access to documents. The media had to pressure before Mrs. Rice was allowed to give testimony and Bush and Cheney didn't even testified under oath. That means they could have lied and nobody would be the wiser. They also hid as much as possible under the guise of national security.

Other elements that, while not incriminating Bush, look suspicious:
1. The patriot act. You can say what you want it is still taking away your rights.
2. The "enemy combattant" designation. Most of the liberals, myself included, think it's only a way to dodge the Geneva convention and POW rights by inventing a new term for POW. The supreme court seems to believe the same thing if you look at their recent rulings on Guantanamo Bay.
3. The double standards shown in going after Iraq but not North Korea. Personnally, I think that North Korea is a much bigger threat tu US territorial security that Iraq ever was.

Now, granted, all these points can be argued one by one and most of them can be explained away if you try hard enough. But you have to agree that there's an anormal amount of evidence, coincidence and half-truth. I think there's more than enough material for an impeachment procedure on president Bush. It is my belief that President Bush is lying to the american public and that the war in Iraq was for the only benefit of President Bush and his little circle of friends.

Be fair. Bush AND BLAIR took this to the UN, Bush AND BLAIR invaded....

I agree with you Lightningstar and Aryan Catholics that right now the country is needlessly polarized and that members of both the political parties are being just plain vicious. The problem is that there has been a death of nuance in the way we think about the world and the issues that face us. It's either "Bush is a war criminal and worse than Hitler" or "I hate you commie-freedom-hating liberals that disagree with our righteous president and war" while both sides miss the point completely. I believe that yes Bush definately played up his intelligence "findings" and that he may have stretched the truth or heard exactly what he wanted to hear from those. Does that make him a war criminal? Maybe but unlikely. On the other hand, we're now entrenched in this combat situation with no easy way out, and the "support the troops, bring em home" people miss the point as well, you can oppose the decision to go to war but you can't turn back time and prevent it from happening. That's why I, who happen to disapprove of the decision to go to war, at least on the exagerated premises that Bush made, still will say that our troops at this point in time need to stay there. There has been a large, after the fact debate if the war was justified, however it was about 6 months too late. Now we're there and there is almost no debate or forum on how to stabilize the region and get out. (By the way, yes I am voting for John Kerry this election).

let us not forget the lie stunt that CNN and the BBC did...you know the statue of Saddam falling down with Iraqis pulling it down.....BUSH flew in some of his arab mates to do that and oridnary Iraqis were not allowed in the square......a good sign of that lie is when you get a shot of one of the "iraqis" with a D.A.R.E. (a US-based carity) t-shirt on...come on!

Source, please?

And of course, NO US t-shirts, or knock-offs, ever make it around the world -- just like in Japan there are no English-language t-shirts (see www.Engrish.com). No clothes were sent with humanitarian efforts.

D.A.R.E. is not a charity, either.
Please get your facts straight, it's embarassing. http://www.dare.com/home/default.asp

LOL, and posting puppets to support your own arguments really makes you look silly.

Source, please?

And of course, NO US t-shirts, or knock-offs, ever make it around the world -- just like in Japan there are no English-language t-shirts (see www.Engrish.com). No clothes were sent with humanitarian efforts.

D.A.R.E. is not a charity, either.
Please get your facts straight, it's embarassing. http://www.dare.com/home/default.asp

I agree with Katganistan. I mean COEM ON. I live in Panama and like 95% of the peopel wear I <3 NY T-shirts. I Also lived in Pakistan and, well, when ever they wore T Shirts (instead of their Traditional Dress, which tehy wear alot) about 70% of them were about America and Britain (as in good ways, not I bomb NY t-shirts)

American Soldiers are NOT raping people.
Just like the Chimp keeps repeating "America is safer"...
Close your eyes and Keep repeating that...to yourself...

"American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"...

Chimps dont wanna hear...dont wanna talk....Dont wanna see...THEY ARE HAPPY TO BELEIVE THEIR OWN LIES.

Close your eyes and Keep repeating that...to yourself...
Just like the Chimp keeeps repeating "America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"....
Chimps dont wanna hear...dont wanna talk....Dont wanna see...THEY ARE HAPPY TO BELEIVE THEIR OWN LIES.
you forgot to tell hi mto put his ruby slippers on and click the heels 3 times

I agree with Katganistan. I mean COEM ON. I live in Panama and like 95% of the peopel wear I <3 NY T-shirts. I Also lived in Pakistan and, well, when ever they wore T Shirts (instead of their Traditional Dress, which tehy wear alot) about 70% of them were about America and Britain (as in good ways, not I bomb NY t-shirts)

http://www.engrish.com/category_index.php?category=Clothing <-- for a good laugh, click here.

Just like the Chimp keeps repeating "America is safer"...
Close your eyes and Keep repeating that...to yourself...

"American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."..."American Soldiers are NOT raping people"...."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"..."America is safer"...

Chimps dont wanna hear...dont wanna talk....Dont wanna see...THEY ARE HAPPY TO BELEIVE THEIR OWN LIES.

You want a cracker to go with that, Polly? :D

No matter what side you're on, and who you're listening to, you will always get a very one-sided argument and omissions of specific facts.

What we actually know about what is going on in Iraq is quite shady and uncertain. That is the true crime which is being committed.

You want a cracker to go with that, Polly? :DNo, I want a Killer Dragonrider.

Hey RevolutionsZ, i have myu opinions, you have your, just dont Flame. Flaming is for idiots. And dont put my post on other threads :mp5:

Well, I thought it was funny. :D

WOW!! You sent over 200,000 troops, killed over 10,000 Iraqis, killed a 1,000 coaltion forces, wounded thousands more, destroyed most of the infastructure to get ONE man. Simply amazing!! Book'em Dano.

and you know of a better way to have captured Saddam?

No, I want a Killer Dragonrider.


That has to be the biggest non-sequitur I've heard in a while....

and you know of a better way to have captured Saddam?
I was using extreme sarcasm to say the least. Saddam was no threat to the USA and yet, Bush felt compelled to go into Iraq, despite the fact that UN was in the process of looking for those WMD that Bush claimed that Saddam had.

So since they couldn't find any WMD after invading, the Bush administration had to claim the removal of Saddam was more important.

Besides, I thought the war on terrorism was meant for the real terrorists like Bin Laden. Bush could care less about Bin Laden and even said so (the quote is on the official White House pages----State of the Union----questions and answers with the press). So who is kidding who?

Be fair. Bush AND BLAIR took this to the UN, Bush AND BLAIR invaded....

Point conceded.

Point conceded.

*shakes hands with East Canuck*
:)

*shakes hands with East Canuck*
:)

Its nice to see that all the people left in this thread (hopefully) are all gentlemen and, while they may not approve of each others opinions, they are intellient enough to see if they have been mistaken and solve things the respectable way.

Its nice to see that all the people left in this thread (hopefully) are all gentlemen and, while they may not approve of each others opinions, they are intellient enough to see if they have been mistaken and solve things the respectable way.

*shakes hands with The Lightning Star and Katganistan*

good thing too. i mean, i just read the entire thread and a lot was flame.
even though i'd support kerry (if i could vote in the us), i still think bush is really a nazi. nazis are National Socialists, who want a completely indepent state (with no dealings with or admittance of others), are total racists and that they should do whatever they think is right.

btw, if anyone is in the uk, that's a lot like the bnp. now THEY are like the nazis.

good thing too. i mean, i just read the entire thread and a lot was flame.
even though i'd support kerry (if i could vote in the us), i still think bush is really a nazi. nazis are National Socialists, who want a completely indepent state (with no dealings with or admittance of others), are total racists and that they should do whatever they think is right.

btw, if anyone is in the uk, that's a lot like the bnp. now THEY are like the nazis.

Was there supposed to be a "Dont" between "still" and "think"? because the latter half of the post conflicted with the first. besides that part though it was a good post (as in it wasnt flame, thank god!)

sorry. your right, there REALLY should have been a DON'T there.

thank god for posters who read previous posts.

sorry. your right, there REALLY should have been a DON'T there.

thank god for posters who read previous posts.

Just doing my part *bows to Noiretblanc*

btw, what party is Tony Blair in? I dont ge tmuch news on english government, except for when i watch Parliment some times on CNN World and BBC World. Unfortunatly, thats about 2 or 3 times a year only so whatever i lean i cant remeber, except for alot of guys saying "hear" or something whenever their guy says something...

Just doing my part *bows to Noiretblanc*

btw, what party is Tony Blair in? I dont ge tmuch news on english government, except for when i watch Parliment some times on CNN World and BBC World. Unfortunatly, thats about 2 or 3 times a year only so whatever i lean i cant remeber, except for alot of guys saying "hear" or something whenever their guy says something...

IIRC, he is labour.

except not everyone is sure the *new labour* he's started is still really labour. ah well. if i could vote, he'd have my vote: not because i reckon he's best but because i agree with the ideas of the labour party in general more than with the tories, say.
sorry to go all off topic.

except not everyone is sure the *new labour* he's started is still really labour. ah well. if i could vote, he'd have my vote: not because i reckon he's best but because i agree with the ideas of the labour party in general more than with the tories, say.
sorry to go all off topic.

ooh ok. And dont worry, im the one who brought us off topic.