NationStates Jolt Archive

It is in next month's issue of Esquire, a magazine I generally consider useless after I bought a six month subscription to support my daughter's school band and read exactly one article (and it pissed me off because it was so freaking retarded).

But Ron Reagan Jr is pissed, and Esquire is letting him vent and I say, more power to him. Here's the link (http://www.esquire.com/cgi-bin/printtool/print.cgi?pages=5&filename=%2Ffeatures%2Farticles%2F2004%2F040729_mfe_reagan.html&x=57&y=10) and here's a couple of paragraphs from it. Enjoy.

Politicians will stretch the truth. They'll exaggerate their accomplishments, paper over their gaffes. Spin has long been the lingua franca of the political realm. But George W. Bush and his administration have taken "normal" mendacity to a startling new level far beyond lies of convenience. On top of the usual massaging of public perception, they traffic in big lies, indulge in any number of symptomatic small lies, and, ultimately, have come to embody dishonesty itself. They are a lie. And people, finally, have started catching on.

None of this, needless to say, guarantees Bush a one-term presidency. The far-right wing of the country—nearly one third of us by some estimates—continues to regard all who refuse to drink the Kool-Aid (liberals, rationalists, Europeans, et cetera) as agents of Satan. Bush could show up on video canoodling with Paris Hilton and still bank their vote. Right-wing talking heads continue painting anyone who fails to genuflect deeply enough as a "hater," and therefore a nut job, probably a crypto-Islamist car bomber. But these protestations have taken on a hysterical, almost comically desperate tone. It's one thing to get trashed by Michael Moore. But when Nobel laureates, a vast majority of the scientific community, and a host of current and former diplomats, intelligence operatives, and military officials line up against you, it becomes increasingly difficult to characterize the opposition as fringe wackos.

And it gets better the longer you read. Go Ronnie!

Not a bad article.

I can already hear the insults that will be tossed his way now. ;)

Hey--I remember when his dad was president, he was on Good Morning America because he was studying ballet. He's also been an announcer for a dog show lately. I think he's had his share of insults hurled his way over the years. He'll be fine.

Why does anyone care what Ronny Jr says?

Ron is angry over the stem cell research stance of Bush. He feels (and is probably right) that such research could help those like his father.

What he fails to acknowledge is that his father would have taken the same stance as Bush. Reagan was as anti-abortion as any politician could be.

Ironic isn't it?

Why does anyone care what Ronny Jr says?
I think it would have to be if he made som good arguments. I don't know if he did, but from the above text, at least he seems to be good at appealing to authority (http://www.philosophypages.com/lg/e06a.htm).

he would not even attend the ceramony with his mom for the carrier that carrys his dads name because it is a weapon of mass destruction in his mind.

Why should he have to go see a carrier if he doesn't believe in it?

Why should he have to go see a carrier if he doesn't believe in it?

How does one not believe in an aircraft carrier? I mean it is right there...solid...huge....powerful.

J/K

Seeing as he has absolutely no relevence I can't see why his opinions are worth more than any other person from the general public. People with some loose claim to fame seem to think their opinions carry more weight than anyone else's. Well, I don't think they do.

Seeing as he has absolutely no relevence I can't see why his opinions are worth more than any other person from the general public. People with some loose claim to fame seem to think their opinions carry more weight than anyone else's. Well, I don't think they do.

I agree! Hollywood actors especially piss me off when they try to get political. These people do not live in the same world as the rest of us, why do they think they should be able to direct policy that affects me. Barbara Streisand is the worst by far. That woman has barbed wire topped fences around her home to keep the public out of her life, but she thinks she should be able to direct policy that affects my life.

These prima-donnas should stick to making movies and leave the politics to the politicians.

oooo - 1st bashing Bush on his support of a gay marriage ban, now this! It seems like Ronnie Jr. is picking up steam!!

Yeah, he is a real locomotive. ;)

Seeing as he has absolutely no relevence I can't see why his opinions are worth more than any other person from the general public. People with some loose claim to fame seem to think their opinions carry more weight than anyone else's. Well, I don't think they do.
Well his relevance here is that his father just died from a disease that could quite possibly be ended by stem cell treatments. Maybe he wants the treatment to be found before he's that age...

Ron is angry over the stem cell research stance of Bush. He feels (and is probably right) that such research could help those like his father.

What he fails to acknowledge is that his father would have taken the same stance as Bush. Reagan was as anti-abortion as any politician could be.

Ironic isn't it?
I wasn't old enough during the days of Reagan to make a guess as to how he would've felt about stem cell research, but many people that are against abortion have no problem with it, as it's a completely different concept.

Well his relevance here is that his father just died from a disease that could quite possibly be ended by stem cell treatments. Maybe he wants the treatment to be found before he's that age...


I wasn't old enough during the days of Reagan to make a guess as to how he would've felt about stem cell research, but many people that are against abortion have no problem with it, as it's a completely different concept.
It is amazing how Ron Reagan is a complete non-entity for two decades, then wham, the democrats see some sick way to use him to hurt his family and Bush. You people are really vile inhuman beings.

"Reagan told the Philadelphia Inquirer that the speech was intended "to educate people about stem cell research" rather than be critical of President George Bush. But the Kerry campaign seems to want to scare people by having the son of the revered late President Ronald Reagan decry President Bush and his pro-life supporters as the major roadblocks to a host of supposedly just-around-the-corner miracle cures for cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes and other dreaded diseases.

It will be a junk science-fueled spectacle.

The controversy centers around the use of stem cells derived from destroyed human embryos. So-called "embryonic stem cells (search)" give rise to all other cells and tissues in the human body and have been touted as possibly yielding treatments for a variety of diseases.


Moral concerns over the destruction of human embryos caused President Bush to limit taxpayer funding for embryonic stem cell research to stem cell lines already in existence. Researchers who were counting on taxpayer funding to conduct research on embryonic stem cells — and then rake in millions of dollars from naive investors — were enraged and began a campaign to pressure the President into opening the taxpayer spigots for embryonic stem cell research on the basis of a wide-eyed hope that cures are near at hand.

Though embryonic stem cell research advocates euphemistically refer to the current state of research as an "early stage," the unfortunate reality is the goal of embryonic stem cell therapies is, at this point, more accurately described as a pipe dream. No researcher is anywhere close to significant progress in developing practical embryonic stem cell therapies.

Mouse embryonic stem cells were first grown in a laboratory in 1981. It took 20 years to make similar achievements with human embryonic stem cells — and merely growing stem cells is no where close to employing those cells in therapies. Embryonic stem cells must be directed to grow into specific cell types and that growth must be controlled — they can proliferate indefinitely in the lab. Uncontrolled stem cell growth may have tumor-forming potential. Because embryonic stem cells don't come from the patient being treated, there may also be problems associated with immune system rejection following transplantation of foreign stem cells.

The difficulty of embryonic stem cell research is underscored by the lack of progress in cancer research. Despite a 30-year, $40-billion "War on Cancer" launched by President Nixon, researchers continue to have great difficulty in controlling, let alone eradicating, the vast majority of cancer cell growth. Conceptually, controlled deployment of "good" stem cells should be vastly more complex than simply destroying "bad" cancer cells.

None of this is to say that embryonic stem cell research can't possibly lead to some improvements in biological understanding or future therapeutic treatments, but such speculative progress of who-knows-what value isn't in the foreseeable future. The only thing certain is that the cost of that research will be high. If embryonic stem cell research had real and imminent possibilities, private investors would be pouring capital into research hoping for real and imminent profits. Instead, venture capital firms are contributing to political efforts to get taxpayers to fund research.

A proposed ballot initiative in California known as Proposition 71 (search) would provide $3 billion in taxpayer money for stem cell research. Supporters hope to raise $20 million to get the initiative passed. What the venture capitalists seem to be hoping for is that taxpayer funding of stem cell research will increase the value of their stakes in biotech companies. The venture capitalists can then cash out at a hefty profit, leaving taxpayers holding the bag of fruitless research.

The spectacle of Ron Reagan at the Democratic Convention will be sad — the disgruntled son of the beloved former president misleading the public with naive hopes while being exploited for political gain by opponents of his father's party. That cynical strategy may get John Kerry a few more votes in November, but it's not going to produce any medical miracles anytime soon, if at all."

Why does anyone care what Ronny Jr says?

No. He's not even half the man his father was. And he knows it. The Dems will use him up to the election and then dump his little ballet dancing, Bush bashing ass.

I wasn't old enough during the days of Reagan to make a guess as to how he would've felt about stem cell research, but many people that are against abortion have no problem with it, as it's a completely different concept.

Really? Where do you think they get the stem cells?

I wasn't old enough during the days of Reagan to make a guess as to how he would've felt about stem cell research, but many people that are against abortion have no problem with it, as it's a completely different concept.

not if you are againt abortion due to a belief that life begins at conception. It's still as independent as an embryo brought about the normal way. (true, not very independent, but separate from the genetic donor)

Well his relevance here is that his father just died from a disease that could quite possibly be ended by stem cell treatments. Maybe he wants the treatment to be found before he's that age...


I wasn't old enough during the days of Reagan to make a guess as to how he would've felt about stem cell research, but many people that are against abortion have no problem with it, as it's a completely different concept.


You don't have to guess about how Ronaldus Magnus would have felt, he never changed his stance on morality, no matter how difficult it was to stand his ground. If Junior wants to campaign for more research, that's fine; he has the right, but he should leave his father out of it.

By the way, W has spent more on stem cell research than any other president.

Also, recent evidence has shown that stem cells are not the way to go when treating Alz.

I assume they could use stem cells from misbirths, or whatever the English word is. Foetuses who died a natural death.

Ron is angry over the stem cell research stance of Bush. He feels (and is probably right) that such research could help those like his father.

What he fails to acknowledge is that his father would have taken the same stance as Bush. Reagan was as anti-abortion as any politician could be.

Ironic isn't it?
Actually not Ironic at all because he was always a democrat, for one he is gay and although he loved his father im sure they disagreed on many issues,the truth is that a very high number of politicians kids are gay(actually higher in congress than for the rest of us)for example look at Dick Cheney,his daughter is a lesbian but he still spews his hatred towards gays and lesbians as does Dubya.
Ron Jr. is a doctor and knows how important this topic is,I actually beleive their is no greater topic than this while some may be equally important i think we will be able to save lives for years to come with this great new research.To understand it better do a google search on stem cells.It very well may be the only answer to the aids epedemic that is spreading across the world.

Firstly, Ron Jr. isn't gay (not that it really matters). He's married to a woman and lives in Seattle.

Secondly, when Reagan Sr. died, the Bush Administration at that time tried to claim the he would have supported the war in Iraq. Ron Jr. disagreed. He also went on to say that where his father differed from Bush is in his religous views. While Reagan Sr. was a religious man, Ron Jr. stated he would never wear God on his sleave as Bush does and claim to do the work of God. He instead, would have prayed hoping for guidance.

Ron Jr. had some great things to say about his father. They differed on their beliefs, but it seemed in his recent interviews that he had love and respect for Reagan, Sr.

Ron Jr. has claimed no party allegiance but, used the Democrats to speak for stem cell research since the Repulican party's position is against it. The reason you see him on TV right now is because he works for MSNBC as a correspondent of sorts.

What he fails to acknowledge is that his father would have taken the same stance as Bush. Reagan was as anti-abortion as any politician could be.


We cant be so sure of that.
Politics change over the years, and I have a pretty good feeling that Reagan Sr would have changed his mind about stem-cells considering his failing health and what turned out to be years in suffering from it. Not to mention that aborted fetuses are not the only place stem-cells can be harvested from.

[/QUOTE]Ron Jr. has claimed no party allegiance but, used the Democrats to speak for stem cell research since the Repulican party's position is against it. The reason you see him on TV right now is because he works for MSNBC as a correspondent of sorts.[/QUOTE]

MSNBC, now there is a non-partisan group for you. They did everything last night short of posting the 1-800 number to contribute to the john/john campaign.

I think it's funny that the socialists...I mean democrats, spoke out that W was going to use Reagan's death for political gain; look who is crapping on the memory of the greatest president to sit in the oval office....junior and the democrats.

I agree! Hollywood actors especially piss me off when they try to get political. These people do not live in the same world as the rest of us, why do they think they should be able to direct policy that affects me. Barbara Streisand is the worst by far. That woman has barbed wire topped fences around her home to keep the public out of her life, but she thinks she should be able to direct policy that affects my life.

These prima-donnas should stick to making movies and leave the politics to the politicians.

Has any one pointed out that Ron Reagan is not a Hollywood star to you? That he is in fact a journalist and was long before his father died? Maybe you just didn't know that. His sister Patti is also.

Just because you may not care what some journalist has to say doesn't make it un-true, unlike some other people who claim to be journalists *coughFOX-NEWScough*

Go little Ronny!!!!

for one he is gay

Well some one better tell his wife then, I don't think she knows! :rolleyes:

I agree! Hollywood actors especially piss me off when they try to get political. These people do not live in the same world as the rest of us, why do they think they should be able to direct policy that affects me. Barbara Streisand is the worst by far. That woman has barbed wire topped fences around her home to keep the public out of her life, but she thinks she should be able to direct policy that affects my life.

These prima-donnas should stick to making movies and leave the politics to the politicians.


I suppose the politicians like Dick Cheney or Paul Martin are more like you and me? Hardly. I have as little in common with a mega-rich politician as I do a mega-rich entertainer. Granted, a politician has been elected, but that does not mean they relate to my day to day life.

Also, many entertainers have been involved in politics for many years. You can't paint with such a broad brush.

Probst,

My post was just clarifying some incorrect statements made here (such as Ron Jr. is working for the Democratic party; Ron Jr. is gay, why he is on TV, etc.).

Bush did try to use Reagan's death for political gain by claiming that a former president, who had just died and was held in high esteem by many Americans, would support his war in Iraq.

When did Ron Jr. "crap" on his fathers memory?

Do you know what a socialism is?

I agree! Hollywood actors especially piss me off when they try to get political. These people do not live in the same world as the rest of us, why do they think they should be able to direct policy that affects me. Barbara Streisand is the worst by far. That woman has barbed wire topped fences around her home to keep the public out of her life, but she thinks she should be able to direct policy that affects my life.

These prima-donnas should stick to making movies and leave the politics to the politicians.I agree. Let's get rid of Arnold Schwarzenegger!!!!!!! I mean--say what you will about Barbara Streisand, but she's only expressing her opinion as a citizen. Arnold is actually trying to run things (and doing a pretty bad job as it by the way).

It is amazing how Ron Reagan is a complete non-entity for two decades, then wham, the democrats see some sick way to use him to hurt his family and Bush. You people are really vile inhuman beings.
1. I'm not a Democrat, and I believe with them about as much as I do the Republican party, but thanks for assuming something so baseless.
Oh, and on top of that, how is saying that stem cell research != abortion hurting Reagan's family and Bush? Or was it my admitting to being young?
Really? Where do you think they get the stem cells?
I'm (studying to be) a research scientist. (well technically I guess I will be in two weeks) I know where stem cells come from....The question is where do YOU think they get them?

not if you are againt abortion due to a belief that life begins at conception. It's still as independent as an embryo brought about the normal way. (true, not very independent, but separate from the genetic donor)
This is almost true...However, implanted embryos have a good likelihood of becoming full grown children if left alone. Whereas the frozen leftovers have no chance of becoming children if left alone. I'm not really sure how often someone comes into a fertilization clinic and says "yeah just give me whatever's left over in the freezer" but I bet it's not often.
Why is it better to trash them than to use them for good?

It is amazing how Ron Reagan is a complete non-entity for two decades, then wham, the democrats see some sick way to use him to hurt his family and Bush. You people are really vile inhuman beings.
A non-entity? Isn't he journalist? As far as I know it was his choice to speak at the DNC, and Nancy Reagan supports him too. He's not hurting his family.

It's funny when neo-con Republicans start calling Democrats "vile inhuman beings." The irony!

I agree! Hollywood actors especially piss me off when they try to get political.
I suppose you hated Ronald Reagan then?