NationStates Jolt Archive

In these days of Apostacy and evil, what once was the truth has been labled the lie, and the lie labeled the truth. As Christians, we have a responsibility to contend for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, given to the Apostles, and recovered by Calvin and Luther. It is our duty to stand up to the evils of the world and put on the whole armour of God.

In order to do this, we as Christians must first better understand our Faith. Knowledge cometh by hearing. There are many misconceptions that people have about their faith. Lies that were taught to them either knowingly or unknowingly that skew their perspective. It is essential for the success of Christianity that these errors be set straight.

If you want to understand your faith, or if you aren't a Christian and want to see what this whole thing is all about, you are welcome to attend the Conference on Truth in Reichsburg, Reichskamphen. This will be a huge event including several keynote speakers; The Emperor of Greater Prussia, Rev. Ian R.K. Paisley, the leader of the Calvinist Party in the Republic of Right Wing Conspirators, Rev. Alan Cairns, and King Marcus Antonius II of Reichskamphen.

May God Bless you and keep you all of your days.

As Christians, we have a responsibility to contend for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, given to the Apostles, and recovered by Calvin and Luther.

If Luther recovered the teachings given to the apostles, tell me why you still use the epistle of James, which Luther wanted to get rid of because it was an 'epistle of straw'.

Luther is fallible, just as everyone else. Luther was wrong about some things too. For instance, Luther was wrong about his opinion of Communion. He believed in semi-transubstantiation...which is even less sensible than transubstantion originally was. Luther was a Catholic all of his life and gradually came to Biblical views as he studied and worked as the truth had been hid from him all of his life. The only thing Luther, at his death, said that he didn't want to go back and edit to be properly Protestant was his last work. Alot of his earlier works, namely the 95 theses still point to the Pope in a huge position of authority. A point that is obviously incorrect and that he changed his mind on later. The same is true in many other things as well. The man who truly took down the Biblical version of beliefs and codified it was Calvin.

The man who truly took down the Biblical version of beliefs and codified it was Calvin.

Well met sir. I am alarmed however at your invitation to Rev. Ian Paisley. The man is a bigot and a nonce. He should not be permitted to attend, never mind speak.

Lol. Some people think so. I do not. His Character is the Emperor of my region. He is called a biggot by his opposition because he clings to the principles of the Reformation in a time when it is unpopular to do so. Every position he holds, Calvin held, and for the most part, Luther too, especially the more controversial ones. Infact every forefather of the Reformation held to those principles and saw them as unwavering. One may say, well, Rome has changed, and it is time to look at her differantly. Rome hasn't changed. The world has changed. Rome stays the same...this I can prove through her own documents and dogmas. The same Rome the reformers separated from is the same Rome that John Paul II sits on the throne in today. There has been no fundamental change. This is the truth. There is a whole field of research behind this that few people know about. You may not like him, but I would atleast invite you firsthand to hear the points made. There will be a debate also afterwards if you care to engage in it.

I'm always up for a good debate, so would be glad to come. Hopefully we can resolve the issues between us in an amicable manner.

The conference will begin tonight. Was called away, but am back.

That always gives me a chuckle. Religious truth as presented by.........

What translation of the bible? Hmmmmmmm. Well, most of the translations out there are very poor.

Or the position that communion can't be given to someone who supports abortion, but is fine for someone who supports the death penalty? Or who supports waging war???????

How bout that radical religious right? People more interested in stuffing their pockets than caring for people. Anyone remember what Jesus said about the eye of the needle?

With all the latest evidence about the early church of Christianity, I have yet to see a modern sect getting it right. Too many truths have been blocked from the population for way too long, probably starting with the blackballing of Mary Magdelin from the early church writings. Seems she was very influential, until the church destroyed or hid most of her writings. She was as close or closer to Jesus than any of the apostles. In fact there is ample evidence to suggest that they may indeed have been married, yet no XHristain religion seems to even acknowledge this as possible. We will never know, for most pertinent documents are sealed within the Vatican, and are forbidden for anyone to research.

Truth in the name of religion is often a dangerous proposition. Lets just say that God calls us all to our Path. Even those that listen and follow may see truth differently, as God chooses many paths for his people to follow. To claim that anyone has a monopoly on that is disgracing to God. The best we can do is preach Truth as known to us, not judge others, as we know not how God has called him/her, and to try our level best to love and respect one another, even if we do think they are horribly misguided.

Anyone ever taken a look at Jefferson's bible? I read that he wrote his own version, claiming the traditional version to have errors (due to the church trying to appease pagan societies)

I'm curious to see what is different

May you die of hemmorrhoids and sudden brain death.

May you die of hemmorrhoids and sudden brain death.

LoL. Funny.

Anyway.. Talking about authenticity about translations. I reckon Old King James is supposedly one of the most accurate. Because it doesn't stem out from the catholic translations.

Ah. The best bible is still the PC Bible. Direct translation from the Hebrew language. But you'll get many possible extra words translations to a verse.

Anyone else other than me find it funny that the words christian and truth are used in the same sentence?

Anyone else other than me find it funny that the words christian and truth are used in the same sentence?

i hope that their conference on religious truth will help me to better understand and embrace my belief in a score of mystical leprechauns who exist on a plain of space/time just out of our visual range, and who are the makers of all our reality.

i hope that their conference on religious truth will help me to better understand and embrace my belief in a score of mystical leprechauns who exist on a plain of space/time just out of our visual range, and who are the makers of all our reality.

Woah, I think you can cut the sarcasm with a knife on that one.

Woah, I think you can cut the sarcasm with a knife on that one.

i resent the implication that my beliefs are any less valid than another persons, simply because they are somewhat less common. Jesus was considered "crazy" by many of the people of his own time, after all, so why treat me any differently? besides, you don't want to enrage Alvin, the Leprechaun of Punishment.

The Conference Begins.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=344936

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthrea...199#post6694199

Alright, the first message has been preached, and a question answered. I have decided to liven it up a bit, to make it more than a lecture series, we will debate after every message. There are certainly alot of people who hate what I have to say. Here is your chance to formally have at, so to speak.

In these days of Apostacy and evil, what once was the truth has been labled the lie, and the lie labeled the truth. As Christians, we have a responsibility to contend for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, given to the Apostles, and recovered by Calvin and Luther. It is our duty to stand up to the evils of the world and put on the whole armour of God.

In order to do this, we as Christians must first better understand our Faith. Knowledge cometh by hearing. There are many misconceptions that people have about their faith. Lies that were taught to them either knowingly or unknowingly that skew their perspective. It is essential for the success of Christianity that these errors be set straight.

If you want to understand your faith, or if you aren't a Christian and want to see what this whole thing is all about, you are welcome to attend the Conference on Truth in Reichsburg, Reichskamphen. This will be a huge event including several keynote speakers; The Emperor of Greater Prussia, Rev. Ian R.K. Paisley, the leader of the Calvinist Party in the Republic of Right Wing Conspirators, Rev. Alan Cairns, and King Marcus Antonius II of Reichskamphen.

May God Bless you and keep you all of your days.
If knowledge cometh from hearing, God wishes you were all deaf.

If anyone of you want to read about Chrsitianity, read these interesting articles:
Blood Sacrifice in the Bible (http://www.freewebs.com/see_the_truth/Human%20Sacrifice%20and%20the%20Bible.html)
Sins of the Nazarene (http://www.freewebs.com/see_the_truth/sinning%5Fnazarene.html)
The Ten Commandments (http://www.freewebs.com/see_the_truth/TenCommandments.html)

Now, that is a very unChristian statement to make. God wishes us to have knowledge of all his Holy works both Past Present and Future (through Prophecy). God commands that we read his Holy Word, and know his commandments. Know the Gospel of Christ. This statement made by our friend is representative of the traditional attitude taken by Rome. The Bible was on the index of BANNED BOOKS for hundreds of years. They only had the Bible available in Latin, and with held the Gospel of Christ from the people so that they would not, upon knowledge of the Gospel, throw off their chains, as they did in the Reformation. It was believed that only the Priests knew anything about God's word and only the Priests and the Church could read it and speak about it. This is clearly not what God or Christ wanted. Christ wanted his Gospel given to EVERYONE THAT COULD HEAR OR READ IT! Witholding the Gospel from hungry souls is a sin against all that is called God. Knowledge Cometh by hearing...and FAITH cometh by KNOWING.

Read the Gospel for yourself, listen to what I have to say, listen to what my opposition has to say, then decide for yourself. Fall not into these contrary ways that so many have.

I was a Catholic for a good part of my life, if I had not been willing to listen, I would not have found Christ Jesus.

Now, that is a very unChristian statement to make. God wishes us to have knowledge of all his Holy works both Past Present and Future (through Prophecy). God commands that we read his Holy Word, and know his commandments. Know the Gospel of Christ. This statement made by our friend is representative of the traditional attitude taken by Rome. The Bible was on the index of BANNED BOOKS for hundreds of years. They only had the Bible available in Latin, and with held the Gospel of Christ from the people so that they would not, upon knowledge of the Gospel, throw off their chains, as they did in the Reformation. It was believed that only the Priests knew anything about God's word and only the Priests and the Church could read it and speak about it. This is clearly not what God or Christ wanted. Christ wanted his Gospel given to EVERYONE THAT COULD HEAR OR READ IT! Witholding the Gospel from hungry souls is a sin against all that is called God. Knowledge Cometh by hearing...and FAITH cometh by KNOWING.

Read the Gospel for yourself, listen to what I have to say, listen to what my opposition has to say, then decide for yourself. Fall not into these contrary ways that so many have.

I was a Catholic for a good part of my life, if I had not been willing to listen, I would not have found Christ Jesus.

I think he wants you to comment on his links.

Knowledge comes by experience of truth, which is promised to all who truly seek it by Y'shua, the Messiah ben David. As a Protestant now (which I must assume you are) you should become aware of the depths to which the Romans have corrupted the writings of the saints. Jerome put together the first New Testement on the orders of the Nicean Council, a body closely aligned to the first Popes and one whose edicts were instrumental in the Roman paganization of Christianity.

In the Tenach (Old Testement) is the authority of the NT ever asserted? Of course it isn't. Does the NT assert its own authority? In places, yes, but as a body? No. It does not. It does however contain the words of Y'shua telling his listeners to test his words against those of the Law and the Prophets.

Several Gospels and other writings attributed, just as convincingly as the books of the NT, to such men and women as Peter, Thomas and Mary Magdeline were left out and surpressed and their readers punished and murdered by the early Roman church. The ones you Protestants still call "the inspired Word of God" are simply those that fit the Roman's agenda.

Do you know and keep the TRUE Word of God? Let's start with an easy one: which day is the sabbath?

"for all who seek will find, and to all those who knock the Way will be opened"

Those who seek a comfortable dogma to tell them what to believe will remain Catholics, Protestants, etc., or convert from one to another; they will continue to mistake the signposts for the destination. Those who reject the wisdom writings associated with past dogmas ignore the signposts and wander far from the destination. Those who use the signposts as God intended them to be used will find the truth.



- Druthulhu
Christian Gnostic

Ah, the Gnostics. It has been a while since I have met one. You raise some very good points. If you will permit me time to compose a decent response. I would prefer to make reference to my materials to show that I am not simply pulling this stuff out of my rear so to speak. If you give me a day, I shall have a good documented response.

LoL. Funny.

Anyway.. Talking about authenticity about translations. I reckon Old King James is supposedly one of the most accurate. Because it doesn't stem out from the catholic translations.

Ah. The best bible is still the PC Bible. Direct translation from the Hebrew language. But you'll get many possible extra words translations to a verse.

How do you mean, does not stem out from the catholic translations?

All the books required for a catholic bible were available to the King James scholars, they merely chose to excise seven of them for political purposes (i.e. to meet the requirements of their King).

And the list of scriptures was far greater before the circa 300ad canonisation of the bible, until a wealth of what are termed 'Apocrypha' and "Pseudepigraha" were declared heresy by the faith.

And, of course, one of those texts is "Hanukh" or "The Book of Enoch", from which Jesus quotes many times, and which explains more fully the mythology of the Anakim, and brings to light the real reason for the destruction of Sodom.

Also ignored by the church were the testaments of Thomas and Mary Magdalene, both of which would have made for a very different christian church today.

Ah, the Gnostics. It has been a while since I have met one. You raise some very good points. If you will permit me time to compose a decent response. I would prefer to make reference to my materials to show that I am not simply pulling this stuff out of my rear so to speak. If you give me a day, I shall have a good documented response.

No worries. :) But since we're here... which day is God's sabbath?

Anyone ever taken a look at Jefferson's bible? I read that he wrote his own version, claiming the traditional version to have errors (due to the church trying to appease pagan societies)

I'm curious to see what is different


All Jefferson did was cut and paste the portions of the Gospels relevant to Jesus' moral teachings. He called it "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth
Extracted Textually from the Gospels." While he thought that Jesus' moral philosophy was the best the world has ever seen, he thought that the rational people of the 19th century should separate these teachings from the Bible's stories of magic and mysticism.

Jefferson thought people should only be taught lessons from the Bible after they had learned enough science and reason to distinguish the true from the false.

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

OOC: Well, I can't sleep, but it appears as I lay in bed this thread has been flooded by gnostics haha. Sunday is the day of the Lord's sabbath. It was Saturday in the day of the Old Testament, but no longer. Tommorow, I will provide scriptural proof and address the Gnostic controversies again.

OOC: Well, I can't sleep, but it appears as I lay in bed this thread has been flooded by gnostics haha. Sunday is the day of the Lord's sabbath. It was Saturday in the day of the Old Testament, but no longer. Tommorow, I will provide scriptural proof and address the Gnostic controversies again.

OK question #2: where in the Bible does it say that the sabbath has changed, or ever can?

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

- Exodus 20:8-11, KJV

What does the Bible say about changing the sabbath and the Law?

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

- Daniel 7:23-25, KJV

Reichskamphen, surely you are aware that your old Roman Catholic Bible has heavily censored Exodus 20:8-11 to remove referenced to the seventh day as being God's hallowed sabbath? Yes, Protestantism has fixed the scriptures, but it kept the traditions.

Sleep well... unless the Spirit of Truth is keeping you awake ;)

Why do you fools blather on and on about beliefs?! If you believe in god, Jesus, Mohhamed, Buddha...Great! Just do not force your beliefs on me or the whole populace. Arguing the existance of God is like arguing about what came first? The Chicken or the Egg? In the end who gives a sh**?! Religion should be something that is private, personal. Not some product to be sold on the open market to some dimwit who is having a rough spot in thier life and thinks Jesus is the answer as long of course he or she pays 10% tithing.

Why do you fools blather on and on about beliefs?! If you believe in god, Jesus, Mohhamed, Buddha...Great! Just do not force your beliefs on me or the whole populace. Arguing the existance of God is like arguing about what came first? The Chicken or the Egg? In the end who gives a sh**?! Religion should be something that is private, personal. Not some product to be sold on the open market to some dimwit who is having a rough spot in thier life and thinks Jesus is the answer as long of course he or she pays 10% tithing.

Oh, I'm sorry... did one of us force you to open and post in this thread? :rolleyes:

So would any of you get pizzas from my work? (www.hell.co.nz) Considering its by far the best franchise Pizza in this country :D

Why do you fools blather on and on about beliefs?! If you believe in god, Jesus, Mohhamed, Buddha...Great! Just do not force your beliefs on me or the whole populace. Arguing the existance of God is like arguing about what came first? The Chicken or the Egg? In the end who gives a sh**?! Religion should be something that is private, personal. Not some product to be sold on the open market to some dimwit who is having a rough spot in thier life and thinks Jesus is the answer as long of course he or she pays 10% tithing.

http://www.waycoolshoes.com/flame.gif

So would any of you get pizzas from my work? Considering its by far the best franchise Pizza in this country

Unless you work at Red Devil's Pizzeria, where I work...you liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie :p

We are so glad to have left your foolish region. We were born Catholics and we are sure that you have a few words about that. Our point is, why do y'all feel the need to spead the word? Are we not to "discover" religion or Jesus Christ in our own way or terms? Why is Christianity so much better than any other religion? Why is religion marketed shamelessly as a product? Why does it interfere with politics? even though we have separation of church and state?
Why do we have dry counties supported by religious congregations that only encourage drunk driving? Answer these questions with logic and reason and I'll become the head of the papacy.

We are so glad to have left your foolish region. We were born Catholics and we are sure that you have a few words about that. Our point is, why do y'all feel the need to spead the word? Are we not to "discover" religion or Jesus Christ in our own way or terms? Why is Christianity so much better than any other religion? Why is religion marketed shamelessly as a product? Why does it interfere with politics? even though we have separation of church and state?
Why do we have dry counties supported by religious congregations that only encourage drunk driving? Answer these questions with logic and reason and I'll become the head of the papacy.

I don't know who told you, you have separation of church and state...??

Technically speaking, yes realistically speaking, no. Does this follow our constitution? no. So is this savagly F**ked up? yes.

I don't know who told you, you have separation of church and state...??

This again? THIS AGAIN???

OK read the First Ammendment again. Yeah I know it doesn't use those words. Get over it already, if you have a working brain you might just be capable of realizing that "seperation of church and state" is a good encapsulization of what that means.

This again? THIS AGAIN???

OK read the First Ammendment again. Yeah I know it doesn't use those words. Get over it already, if you have a working brain you might just be capable of realizing that "seperation of church and state" is a good encapsulization of what that means.

The problem isn't me.... you have to prove the seperation of church and state to those who refuse to seperate church and state. Ten Commandments posted in court houses and city halls. The President of the united states running on the basis of his good christian values... etc.

And, unless it says it in the Constitution, they aren't going to listen to you...

And if it says something they don't like, they'll amend the constitution, anyway.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Doesn't say that state and church are seperate, just that Congress should make no laws regarding it.

The problem isn't me.... you have to prove the seperation of church and state to those who refuse to seperate church and state. Ten Commandments posted in court houses and city halls. The President of the united states running on the basis of his good christian values... etc.

And, unless it says it in the Constitution, they aren't going to listen to you...

And if it says something they don't like, they'll amend the constitution, anyway.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Doesn't say that state and church are seperate, just that Congress should make no laws regarding it.

So it does need to be amended. We need an amendment to replace the words "congress shall make no law" with "no branch of government shall make uphold or allow to continue any law policy or expenditure by any branch of government".

TO THE BAT CAVE!

"It is our duty to stand up to the evils of the world and put on the whole armour of God."


OK, let me get started. The Christians are responsible for a good portion of the world's evil. Well, mostly the Catholics. The Spanish conquest of the Aztecs, the damage done to the native Americans of North America through the Indian Removal Act under Jackson, the missionaries sending in blankets with smallpox, the pompous attitude of St. Patrick against the Druids during the "conversion" of the Celts. The Crusades - which is basically what the Islamists are doing today, conducting a holy war against the infidels. The list is quite endless. Therefore, my good sir, I reject your religion, your ideas about God, and your beliefs, and the concept that Christians are the holy and noble ones fighting against the evil ones is terribly arrogant and ignorant. The Christians track record is worse than Hitler's or Stalin's.

However, there is one thing I have to say to keep it balanced. When it comes to charity, the Christians are pretty much #1. The Christian Children's Fund is a great organization, and more of their profits go to other countries to aid the people than even UNICEF. So I commend them for that.

"It is our duty to stand up to the evils of the world and put on the whole armour of God."


OK, let me get started. The Christians are responsible for a good portion of the world's evil. Well, mostly the Catholics. The Spanish conquest of the Aztecs, the damage done to the native Americans of North America through the Indian Removal Act under Jackson, the missionaries sending in blankets with smallpox, the pompous attitude of St. Patrick against the Druids during the "conversion" of the Celts. The Crusades - which is basically what the Islamists are doing today, conducting a holy war against the infidels. The list is quite endless. Therefore, my good sir, I reject your religion, your ideas about God, and your beliefs, and the concept that Christians are the holy and noble ones fighting against the evil ones is terribly arrogant and ignorant. The Christians track record is worse than Hitler's or Stalin's.

"Well, mostly the Catholics."

You should try to remember that the original Roman Catholic church was founded when a Pagan militarist evangelical empire forcibly co-opted a pacifist sect of an isolationist religion and killed all the believers of that sect who resisted the fusion of the two religions.

A lot of Pagans these days, at least the vast majority of the New Age Paganism-reclaimationists, go on in much the same way that you do. Pride and ignorance of history lead them away from realizing that the vast majority of the atrocities that you mention were done at the hands of a paganized form of Christianity continuing the bloody traditions that they had established as Pagans.

Why do you think they kept the people from being able to read the Bible? They didn't want them to know what it really says. And you seem to have been fooled by them as well.

Protestantism has not done so badly, but the traditions of ignorance are hard to shake off.

"Well, mostly the Catholics."

You should try to remember that the original Roman Catholic church was founded when a Pagan militarist evangelical empire forcibly co-opted a pacifist sect of an isolationist religion and killed all the believers of that sect who resisted the fusion of the two religions.

A lot of Pagans these days, at least the vast majority of the New Age Paganism-reclaimationists, go on in much the same way that you do. Pride and ignorance of history lead them away from realizing that the vast majority of the atrocities that you mention were done at the hands of a paganized form of Christianity continuing the bloody traditions that they had established as Pagans.

Why do you think they kept the people from being able to read the Bible? They didn't want them to know what it really says. And you seem to have been fooled by them as well.

Protestantism has not done so badly, but the traditions of ignorance are hard to shake off.


....Sure. Please cite where St. Patrick didn't allow the Celts to read the Bible, and please explain why the early Catholic church did not stop the above mentioned events.

....Sure. Please cite where St. Patrick didn't allow the Celts to read the Bible, and please explain why the early Catholic church did not stop the above mentioned events.

Why?

1) if St. Patrick did allow the Celts to read the Bible, I was unaware of that. Good for him;

2) the early Catholic church did not stop the brutal warlike pagan practices of Rome because it benefitted from them, and not being truly Christian, it did not care.

Was there a point you wished to make?

Sorry, I am back, personal issues withheld me from logging on. Look for a response soon.

[QUOTE=Druthulhu]

the early Catholic church did not stop the brutal warlike pagan practices of Rome because it benefitted from them, and not being truly Christian, it did not care.

QUOTE]

So you're saying the early Catholic church is not true Christian? Maybe I misunderstood you there. Regardless, the Christians of today still have no right to be the "high holy ones". They have the right to be happy and proud with their religion, yet they need to comprehend that there are other ideas other than they're own, and that just because their theological practices work for them, it is not a universal answer or way of life for everyone. For example, the right wing political analyst Ann Coulter was quoted once saying regarding the Islamic theocracies in the world, "We need to invade those nations, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity." Ultra right wing Christian nationalist attitudes should have been extinct by now, as the Cold War is over, and America is not theocratic.

"A lot of Pagans these days, at least the vast majority of the New Age Paganism-reclaimationists, go on in much the same way that you do."

For the record, I am not one of these neo-Pagans. I am just agnostic.

"the vast majority of the atrocities that you mention were done at the hands of a paganized form of Christianity continuing the bloody traditions that they had established as Pagans."

A few of the pagan religions wiped out by the early Christians were not bloody or evil. I will not argue that the Aztecs were not one of the bloodier ones, with their pathetic sacrifices. Even some of the rituals of native Americans could have seemed barbaric to an outsider, but the Celtic religion of Druidry (aka Druidism) really involved very little sacrifice. The majority
of things sacrificed by them were vegetables and flowers. I have never heard of them sacrificing humans. The idea that all pagan religions were bloody is false.

"A lot of Pagans these days, at least the vast majority of the New Age Paganism-reclaimationists, go on in much the same way that you do."

For the record, I am not one of these neo-Pagans. I am just agnostic.

"the vast majority of the atrocities that you mention were done at the hands of a paganized form of Christianity continuing the bloody traditions that they had established as Pagans."

A few of the pagan religions wiped out by the early Christians were not bloody or evil. I will not argue that the Aztecs were not one of the bloodier ones, with their pathetic sacrifices. Even some of the rituals of native Americans could have seemed barbaric to an outsider, but the Celtic religion of Druidry (aka Druidism) really involved very little sacrifice. The majority
of things sacrificed by them were vegetables and flowers. I have never heard of them sacrificing humans. The idea that all pagan religions were bloody is false.


Nor have I heard of them sacrificing humans. Outside of chick tracts, that is.

...Common, the druids just kicked ass in general :p

"A lot of Pagans these days, at least the vast majority of the New Age Paganism-reclaimationists, go on in much the same way that you do."

For the record, I am not one of these neo-Pagans. I am just agnostic.

"the vast majority of the atrocities that you mention were done at the hands of a paganized form of Christianity continuing the bloody traditions that they had established as Pagans."

A few of the pagan religions wiped out by the early Christians were not bloody or evil. I will not argue that the Aztecs were not one of the bloodier ones, with their pathetic sacrifices. Even some of the rituals of native Americans could have seemed barbaric to an outsider, but the Celtic religion of Druidry (aka Druidism) really involved very little sacrifice. The majority
of things sacrificed by them were vegetables and flowers. I have never heard of them sacrificing humans. The idea that all pagan religions were bloody is false.

Missing the point: Romanized Christianity was a pagan religion. It was bloody before it took over the pacifist sect that Y'shua started, it did so by bloody bloody means, and it remained bloody as Hell for centuries to come. NO credible person with a grasp of history claims that it ever followed Christian principles.

No one said anything... well, not me... about human sacrifices, but since you now have: Rome outlawed the practice during its outwardly pagan days, but the Greeks and Etruscans practiced it from time to time, as did their Micenean forbares. Preserved remains of human sacrifice scenes can be found under the strata of volcanic eruptions, although under the circumstances of lava rushing towards them one might see it as a desperate throwback to elder gods thought displeased.

Human sacrifice was practiced by the pagans of Canaan prior to the coming of the Hebrews and by the sourounding nations, although archeological evidence and biblical accounts regard the Canaanite practices as significantly more barbaric. The rumours, largely considered false, of Santeria practicing human sacrifice are linked to the Canaanite peoples of ancient times and to the worship of the Baalimic god Milcolm. In fact, there is biblical evidence that the family of Abraham practiced foirst-born sacrifice prior to his substitution of the ram.

Then of course there are the Mezoamericans, the Indian Thugee worshippers of the Black Earth Mother Kali, the sacrifice of the Celtic May Queen on Beltane and the original "Burning Man" festival of Lammas ... get this: a convicted man was 1) hung from a tree, 2) run through with a spear, and 3) consigned to the flames, in commemoration of the crucifixion of Wotan.

In its wholey pagan incarnation Rome ran a bloody path over as far as its armies could reach. While they "tolerated" their conquered slave people keeping their own gods, mostly, they did not tolerate anyone refusing to worship the Roman gods. Refusal to bow before an idol, even the image of the Emperor, was punished by a death.

Once Christianity "took over" (i.e., was coopted, taken over and counterfeited by) pagan Rome, they began to do away with those who continued to worship the elder gods, peacefully or otherwise. This was not Christianity.

This is the point: it was a pagan religion, Roman "Christianity", that began these practices, and in the centuries during which Protestantism has been extricating itself from the bloody pagan practices (and no not all pagans are/were bloody) their own crimes have been lessening.

Kind of like a kid whose parents tought him that being American meant being White and Christian. He's better off than his slave owning anscestors but probably still has a lot of fucked up ideas. Those ideas are NOT the democratic ideals of America, just the ideas of a bunch of oligarchists who exploit ignorence by calling themselves "Americans".

The Roman pagans started calling themselves "Christians" and people like you are still fooled.