NationStates Jolt Archive

Everyone,

What do you think? Is masturbation immoral and "sinfully" wrong? What are your beliefs? Why do you enjoy it? Why don't you? Explain in detail....


Me, I masturbate nearly every day. I find it to be a great stress reliever, and in times such as these, we could all use a good stress reliever. I also, of course, find it very pleasureable, and do not see it as being morally wrong whatsoever. I believe that God gave us these bodies so that we may love them and use them as such. I believe that he blessed us with the feeling of pleasure for a reason, and that cannot be looked down upon in my opinion.

It's not masturbation if you don't use your hands.

It's not masturbation if you don't use your hands.

- SHA BAM ! - :D

If it doesn't feel good it isn't your penis...

Isaac wrote this

And if it feels bad and it is your penis, then that is not what a waffle iron is for.

I personally do not believe it to be immoral. It is perfectly natural for a human being to seek pleasure sexually though self-induced orgasms.

My question to others who do not agree with me is...

Do the sexual habits of a young boy or girl with him or herself affect you in any way?

Immoral isn't the right word, I'd say it's still a taboo. And when you wank every day how can you think about immorality?

... when you wank every day how can you think about immorality?

Isn't that what people think about when wanking every day?

I can't imagine how you can think about that when you're 'busy'...

Immoral isn't the right word, I'd say it's still a taboo. And when you wank every day how can you think about immorality?People who masturbate are immoral? Geez, there goes 85% of the population.

I don’t think it is immoral. It's personal exploration and maintenance.

Also, if people aren’t familiar with their private regions then they can face big problems later in life.

Eg 1: If people aren’t aware of what is and isn’t normal on their bodies (especially women - not being able to see what’s going on as easily as males) then if something bad happens (cancerous lumps, infectious bumps, ect) you wont know that it is bad and you will probably miss out on your short chance to have things fixed before it is too late.

Eg 2: (Male based) Young males require the ability to remove any unused semen from their body when the levels become too excessive to be successfully reabsorbed back into the body. If I was a guy, I would personally prefer to have control over when and how it gets removed and where it is it gets removed to, instead of waking up and having to remove the result of the involuntary removal of excess from my sheets once a week. (I'm also thinking if you are at someone else’s house, they wont like having to clean that off their sheets either).

Eg 3: (Women based again) Menstruation. If women don’t know their bodies properly, this can be really hard to deal with for the first few times – especially seeings that it is seen as a taboo to explore yourself in the first place, it will be worse to try and openly talk about it, wont it? Menstruation isn’t as easy as some would have you believe to deal with on its own - it would be worse if you didn’t know yourself well enough (in that way) too.

Eg 4: (Everyone’s favourite) Sexual intercourse. If you don’t know what is supposed to feel good and what isn’t, you could be doing some serious harm to yourself during the act and not be fully aware of it. (For those who don’t know, women’s private regions are more complicated then you think). You can’t race headlong into intercourse without having some idea of what is supposed to do /feel like what.

Figure yourself out before you try and figure out someone else.

If masturbation is immoral then that's 6 billion immoral people in the world.

Morality is a relative term, subject to variation based on differing cultural norms, differing upbringings, and differing personalities.
The concept is entirely subjective, and cannot be applied to purely biologically based activities such as masturbation.
Therefore masturbation is not "immoral", because, objectively speaking, there is no such thing.

BUT, according to Murphy's laws everything good in life is either illegal, immoral or fattening.
Masturbation is not illegal (at least not where I live), and last I checked it wasn't fattening.

Therefore it must be immoral.

Without masterbation the single man would go mad from sheer frustration. Any guy who says they don't, regardless of religous, moral or any other reason, they are full of shit.

I once read that an average of 97-99% of the male population aged 15-17 masturbates... All immoral. Seriously I think religion and masturbation in one setence is just obscene. Why is it immoral to discover your own body? Is picking your nose also immoral because you are discovering your body?

Idle hands are the devils playground. :D

It just struck me, I've been right all along.

General really is full of wankers.

:D

Everybody masturbate. I seriously doubth that any one dossent do it. Sure some may say that they dont but that´s probably bs they would go mad if they dident.

Everybody masturbate. I seriously doubth that any one dossent do it. Sure some may say that they dont but that´s probably bs they would go mad if they dident.
I doubt the Pope is in any shape to masturbate. His priests porabably have to give him a hand. :p

I doubt the Pope is in any shape to masturbate. His priests porabably have to give him a hand. :p

Hahahahhahaha!

Hmm... Well, I hate to be the singular voice of dissent in this thread but *sigh* here goes:

Masterbation (at least in males) in really not all that moral. Because, when a male begins to 'jack off' he begins to ejaculate. And what is in the ejaculate? Spermatazoa Cells. Spermatazoa (or 'sperm') cells are a major requirement in reproduction. And when they are spilled upon the ground (or toilet bowl... whatever) they arn't really getting into a position to make a child, are they?

Our sexual anatomy exsists for the purpose of reproduction, not pleasure. Of course, I would be a fool if I did not believe that sexual intercourse was pleasurable... But, that is not its primary purpose. To use one's penis and/or clitoris in a way other than sexual intercourse dishonors in singal, utterly holy purpose: The creation of life.

ooc: Now I'm gonna go hide in a corner... ;)

Hmm... Well, I hate to be the singular voice of dissent in this thread but *sigh* here goes:

Masterbation (at least in males) in really not all that moral. Because, when a male begins to 'jack off' he begins to ejaculate. And what is in the ejaculate? Spermatazoa Cells. Spermatazoa (or 'sperm') cells are a major requirement in reproduction. And when they are spilled upon the ground (or toilet bowl... whatever) they arn't really getting into a position to make a child, are they?

It is if you are donating them to a sperm bank.

I think it is fine, and plesurable, I mean like every one says you would go mad if you didn't.

I mean like every one says you would go mad if you didn't.

Then I'm a lunatic.

For real? lol

Saying you don't masturbate is like saying the sky isn't blue or water isn't wet

LOL, hey everybody come over to my thread and say what u think about incest.

Saying you don't masturbate is like saying the sky isn't blue or water isn't wet

Hmm... really? In what way? (I'm not trying to be snide... I seriously am wondering if you have some insight that I don't)

Masterbation (at least in males) in really not all that moral. Because, when a male begins to 'jack off' he begins to ejaculate. And what is in the ejaculate? Spermatazoa Cells. Spermatazoa (or 'sperm') cells are a major requirement in reproduction. And when they are spilled upon the ground (or toilet bowl... whatever) they arn't really getting into a position to make a child, are they?
They're living cells, yes, but that also happens when you spit. Or scratch your arm (or anywhere else!). Humans are basically a bonanza of cells flying in every direction all the time. That's what 90% of household dust is made up of. Granted, spermatazoa are reproductive cells, but so what? A sperm will die naturally after a few days anyway, even in the testes, where it'll be replaced. If you don't intend to procreate for the next couple of days, I don't think a doomed batch of sperm makes any difference whether they die inside your gonad or in a Kleenex.

Our sexual anatomy exsists for the purpose of reproduction, not pleasure. Of course, I would be a fool if I did not believe that sexual intercourse was pleasurable... But, that is not its primary purpose. To use one's penis and/or clitoris in a way other than sexual intercourse dishonors in singal, utterly holy purpose: The creation of life.
How does it dishonour an 'utterly holy process', as you put it? Frankly I'm unnerved by your choice of vernacular. Are you Catholic? (But that's for a different thread I suppose...) OK, let's hypothesise that reproduction is a divine process, a sacrement. The testes would still replenish their stock every few days. (His divine Will, of course.) And to expend a few that wouldn't go anywhere anyway, I don't see how that's 'dishonourable'. I'm sure God would want us to grow as people, and to be somewhat adept at the very process of procreation - rather than clumsy fumbling. That clumsiness and ineptitute (and possible pain for the partner) would seem more of a dishonour, don't you think?

But anyway, kudos for being the sole voice of dissent. Debate keeps it fresh. Until the next time...

He has a very good point, he's right!

Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is great! If a sperm is wasted, GOD gets quite irate...

Think about that for a moment...

Well, u have to relieve your penis's desire somehow...

Well, u have to relieve your penis's desire somehow...

Its all in your head... All you have to do is keep you mind off your gonads for a while, and you'll be fine. :)

Immorality is all in opinion. Through the general view of morality, masturbation is disgusting, but not condemning. I'm pretty sure some sects of Christianity disallow it, but again, immorality is all in opinion.

Personally, it is in some ways a survival (or, at least, passing-on-genes-more assuredly) skill. If we did not masturbate, the human race would weaken a tad bit, because no one could figure the whole "sex" thing out. It evolved into us because those more familiar with their bodies and the good feelings that come from parts of them were able to reproduce more efficiently. Those less familiar, that did not masturbate, were unable to use themselves properly in order to fertilize an egg.

Like they say, practice makes perfect.... ;)

Dude, thatz a hard thing to do lol!! Itz not that bad to mastrubate, i mean realyy..

Like once your "man's" throbbin' there really aint no stopping! haha

Hmm... Well, I hate to be the singular voice of dissent in this thread but *sigh* here goes:

Masterbation (at least in males) in really not all that moral. Because, when a male begins to 'jack off' he begins to ejaculate. And what is in the ejaculate? Spermatazoa Cells. Spermatazoa (or 'sperm') cells are a major requirement in reproduction. And when they are spilled upon the ground (or toilet bowl... whatever) they arn't really getting into a position to make a child, are they?

Our sexual anatomy exsists for the purpose of reproduction, not pleasure. Of course, I would be a fool if I did not believe that sexual intercourse was pleasurable... But, that is not its primary purpose. To use one's penis and/or clitoris in a way other than sexual intercourse dishonors in singal, utterly holy purpose: The creation of life.

ooc: Now I'm gonna go hide in a corner... ;)

I always find it fascinating how few people know anything about biology.

1) Sperm are not required for reproduction - even in people (and certainly not in the rest of the natural world). You can cause reproduction by combing egg cells, by combining any tissue cell with an egg, by parthenogenesis (rare, but it can happen) or - the 'moral right' would have us believe, by the touch of god. Personally - if that's what he's got on his fingers, he can leave me alone....

2) And what happens if you don't ejaculate? Well... part of the time, you still DO ejaculate, although you are not conscious at the time. The rest of the time, what happens to the 2,000,000,000 sperms produced every day by the male? He loses them in his urine. That is why the whole 'sanctity of sperm' argument is so ridiculous. Or are christians going to start that a man who hasn't had sex find a woman to urinate in?

3) I disagree that reproduction is the only purpose of the human sex responses - initmacy, and unity are two other reasons.

4) I assume from your mention of the word holy, that you believe masturbation is 'bad' because it says so in the Bible. I hope this is not the case, becasue it would show you to a) be shallow, and b) never have read the bible properly.

4) I assume from your mention of the word holy, that you believe masturbation is 'bad' because it says so in the Bible. I hope this is not the case, becasue it would show you to a) be shallow, and b) never have read the bible properly.

Actually... I was just looking for adjectives... :)

P.S. It has never said anything in the bible about this subject being taboo or shunned.

Actually... I was just looking for adjectives... :)

So, what is your actual objection to masturbation then?

As someone else has pointed out, if you're not going to be using them anywhere else, might as well get some enjoyment out of it.

Also - having seen the way most of "The Lads" are around town, is reproduction really that great a thing? Should we be morally encouraging this mouth-breathers that it's better to put it in a woman (any woman) than let it go 'splat'?

Isn't part of the reason so many people react so 'macho', because they are being swamped in testosterone?

So - masturbation is not only good for you, it's actually good for society.
Wow - I can see the posters now.... "Hand-Shandy: It's the Patriotic thing to do!"

P.S. It has never said anything in the bible about this subject being taboo or shunned.

But most people jump to that conclusion because they misread the "sin of Onan" passage. Now THAT one was an example of just how screwed up Judeo-christian mythology is...

So, what is your actual objection to masturbation then?

As someone else has pointed out, if you're not going to be using them anywhere else, might as well get some enjoyment out of it.

Also - having seen the way most of "The Lads" are around town, is reproduction really that great a thing? Should we be morally encouraging this mouth-breathers that it's better to put it in a woman (any woman) than let it go 'splat'?

Isn't part of the reason so many people react so 'macho', because they are being swamped in testosterone?

So - masturbation is not only good for you, it's actually good for society.
Wow - I can see the posters now.... "Hand-Shandy: It's the Patriotic thing to do!"

The Lads???
mouth breather?
Yes, i think u and i both agree from this (and experiance, lol) that mastrubation is just a form of plesure and not sin.

Everyone,

What do you think? Is masturbation immoral and "sinfully" wrong? What are your beliefs? Why do you enjoy it? Why don't you? Explain in detail....


Me, I masturbate nearly every day. I find it to be a great stress reliever, and in times such as these, we could all use a good stress reliever. I also, of course, find it very pleasureable, and do not see it as being morally wrong whatsoever. I believe that God gave us these bodies so that we may love them and use them as such. I believe that he blessed us with the feeling of pleasure for a reason, and that cannot be looked down upon in my opinion.


it's especially great if yer lonely and can't get any play

Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is great! If a sperm is wasted, GOD gets quite irate...

Think about that for a moment...

I don't hear god about all the people getting murdered daily, so why would he worry about a cell? Pretty hypocrite to me

??????? Grave n idle, what does that mean??

Ok, Im gonna be a dumbass on this one, and NOT read the 37+ posts that appear before mine. I did read some of the last 7-10 posts though not all of them, and now I will express to you the questions I already have in mind.

1. Why is a male's sperm sacred? If it goes to waste, why will God be irate?
This one I often wonder about because no one seems to bash the woman for not getting pregnant every month she can from the time she starts having a period. And every month she doesnt, the body sheds cervical lining and an egg from the stores which we are born with. Isn't that wasting too?

2. What about wet dreams? If a young man has a dream and during the process ejaculates on his bed, is he wasting sperm then too?

People seem to have this WEIRD obsession with controlling the human body far beyond the means that God (or any other deity) wouldve wanted from us. The human body was not built with the intention of denying all that comes natural. After all, God (if thats the creation story you wanna go with, and considering this has become a mostly Christian argument against the practice of masturbation) gave life to humans in the Garden of Evil and gave humans all we could need to be happy and fulfilled. That included a partner with which to share life, and urges that were intended to be expressed. The sinful act of eating the forbidden fruit had only to do with want of something that is denied to us. Therefore it is the first sin that we took from God what we were not supposed to have. It is not the passion itself that was the sin, but human's passion for something denied and stealing to get it that got them kicked from paradise.

Masturbation is a very healthy and desireable way to deal with the sexual urges that we feel within our bodies. It is far more desireable than sleeping with multiple partners, is of far less risk than that too, and allows us to explore that which was given to us. By possessing the feelings that are within us, we are less inclined to marry the first one to pay us notice, and with hope, we will find a mate that trully makes us happy. Until then, keep those hands/fingers/toys busy. ;)

No better words have been spoken, yes it does feel good on your man very much so, dont worry, i'll keeep the hands/fingers/toys busy!

My brother is playing that one game, "Bop it" right now. It's getting quite annoying. He could at least do it in another room.

??????? Grave n idle, what does that mean??

What does my name mean?

As a former christian (I like to think of myself as having matured out of it), I have a very good knowledge of scripture, and seem to know more about their 'god' than most of the christians that perpetually bombard me with their morality do...

The name is a play on words based on the Idols and Graven Images of Leviticus 26:1.... graven idol..... grave n idle.

Alrite. First off, I'll say that I respect those who have such huge faith in their diety that they resist the urge to masturbate. However, I totally disagree with that point of view, and belive that they are only tourturing themselves.

Masturbation is, to put it in perspective, patching up a dent in your car until you can afford to get it fixed. The male human is hard-wired to start puberty soon after the age of 10-11. Unless there is a ready and willing female to have sex with him by the time he's ready for his first orgasm, he's going to have to lose some sperm somehow. You don't have to be taught to masturbate, it just comes to you (at least in my experience...). I didn't have to watch a video, or read a book, or be taught to do it, becasue it was already natural for me to do it. Since chances are that a 12 year old boy will have the luxury of having sex at will, he'll do what seems natural to him. If doing what is natural to you is immoral (and I don't care if its immoral or not, by the way), then humans are basically immoral creatures (and some are, but for different reasons then masturbation).

In fact, Catholocism, the religion that disapproves of this natural act, has a history of having preists rape and befoul innocent young boys, who haven't even gotten wind of the act of masturbation yet (for the most part). I refuse to follow any commandments, laws, or instructions from a religion that condones this.

In addition, the fact that the catholic church are scared of homosexuals (a little off topic, i know) only furthers my belief that the whole church is mad.

And finally, I believe that God masturbates too (whether he exists or not- Im atheist). How do you think humans were created?

And finally, I believe that God masturbates too (whether he exists or not- Im atheist). How do you think humans were created?

*falls to the floor laughing*
That is very funny. Its certainly an interesting thought!

Alrite. First off, I'll say that I respect those who have such huge faith in their diety that they resist the urge to masturbate. However, I totally disagree with that point of view, and belive that they are only tourturing themselves.

Masturbation is, to put it in perspective, patching up a dent in your car until you can afford to get it fixed. The male human is hard-wired to start puberty soon after the age of 10-11. Unless there is a ready and willing female to have sex with him by the time he's ready for his first orgasm, he's going to have to lose some sperm somehow. You don't have to be taught to masturbate, it just comes to you (at least in my experience...). I didn't have to watch a video, or read a book, or be taught to do it, becasue it was already natural for me to do it. Since chances are that a 12 year old boy will have the luxury of having sex at will, he'll do what seems natural to him. If doing what is natural to you is immoral (and I don't care if its immoral or not, by the way), then humans are basically immoral creatures (and some are, but for different reasons then masturbation).

In fact, Catholocism, the religion that disapproves of this natural act, has a history of having preists rape and befoul innocent young boys, who haven't even gotten wind of the act of masturbation yet (for the most part). I refuse to follow any commandments, laws, or instructions from a religion that condones this.

In addition, the fact that the catholic church are scared of homosexuals (a little off topic, i know) only furthers my belief that the whole church is mad.

And finally, I believe that God masturbates too (whether he exists or not- Im atheist). How do you think humans were created?
Dont go off topic, but yes mastrubation is important! I mean u cant always have sex, u have to relieve it.

*falls to the floor laughing*
That is very funny. Its certainly an interesting thought!

Not really..actually its very disrespectful...and I'm a Pagan...

Just one realisation. It seams like moust ppl here seams to belive that womens dossent masturbate. Since everything were talking about is male sexuality. Womens are just as hard wired for sex as we males are. O well now i have haid my litle equality outburst here :)

hiya! im a christian, not a catholic one mind. can i jus say, the whole church is not catholic, asnd we all tend to hav sum different views. errrrmm...wot else ws i guna say?? ... masturbation aint mentioned specifically in the Bible but, it sez lust is a sin, and i think u gotta agree that epople only masturbate cus theyr lusting after either sex, or a person...u get ma drift. eerrr...send me a telegram if u gott a prob. :p

bye! :D

Not really..actually its very disrespectful...and I'm a Pagan...

Not that disrespectful, the Egyptians had an organised pantheon when all of our modern religions were running around in diapers - and they believed the world was created by masturbation.

Not really..actually its very disrespectful...and I'm a Pagan...

Heh...
To each his/her own. I find it a rather funny statement, and Im not the only one who did.
*smirks*
I see nothing disrespectful in saying that the Deities masturbate. After all, mythology says Zeus was a Mac Daddy, and Aphrodite is a slut. If we can say ~that~ about a Deity, surely we can say they masturbate.

If masturbation is immoral then that's 6 billion immoral people in the world.

6 billion??!!! what about all the infants??!!!

Actually that brings to light a very interesting sidenote.

Toddlers actually play with themselves, and some believe it is because there is a certain amount of physical pleasure from it. While they are incapable of having an orgasm by any sense of the term that adults know, playing with their sexual orifices is enjoyable.

btw: I'm a woman. I've masturbated since I was 12, and I STILL DO.

And finally, I believe that God masturbates too (whether he exists or not- Im atheist). How do you think humans were created?
That explains the big bang, then. ;)

haha, that should be the new thorey of the universe! lol

check out the website www.boysunderattack.com for some great info on this subject

The mormon view of how to overcome masturbation. quite funny. The comments in red are mine.

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NOTE: This article is quoted as a reference in a much longer and more detailed discussion Masturbation and the Bible. Please see the full article for much more information on this subject.


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Be assured that you can be cured of your difficulty. Many have been, both male and female, and you can be also if you determine that it must be so.
Just... don't ask to see them, they're "busy"...

This determination is the first step. That is where we begin. You must decide that you will end this practice, and when you make that decision, the problem will be greatly reduced at once.

But it must be more than a hope or a wish, more than knowing that it is good for you. It must be actually a decision. If you truly make up your mind that you will be cured, then you will have the strength to resist any tendencies which you may have and any temptations which may come to you. After you have made this decision, then observe the following specific guidelines.

A Guide to Self-Control
Never touch the intimate parts of your body except during normal toilet processes. Avoid being alone as much as possible. Find good company and stay in this good company.
But DON'T MASTURBATE WITH THEM! And make sure they're not girls, as girls lead to BAD NAUGHTY THINGS!

If you are associated with other persons having this same problem, you must break off their friendship.(Well, they're goes the human race. Wonder what I'll do when I'm alone so much...) Never associate with other people having the same weakness. Don't suppose that two of you will quit together, you never will. (Trust us, we know. I've quit masturbating over 20 times now!)You must get away from people of that kind. Just to be in their presence will keep your problem foremost in your mind. The problem must be taken out of your mind for that is where it really exists. Your mind must be on other and more wholesome things.

When you bathe, do not admire yourself in a mirror. Because masturbating to yourself would be VERY Narcistic. And besides that, you're very ugly, but don't worry, Jesus loves you!) Never stay in the bath more than five or six minutes -- just long enough to bathe and dry and dress and then get out of the bathroom into a room where you will have some member of your family present.

When in bed, if that is where you have your problem for the most part, dress yourself for the night so securely that you cannot easily touch your vital parts (Tee-hee!), and so that it would be difficult and time consuming for you to remove those clothes. By the time you started to remove protective clothing you would have sufficiently controlled your thinking that the temptation would leave you.

If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in bed, get out of bed and go into the kitchen and fix yourself a snack, even if it is in the middle of the night, and even if you are not hungry, and despite your fears of gaining weight. The purpose behind this suggestion is that you get your mind on something else. You are the subject of your thoughts, so to speak. (Fix yourself some warm apple pie, you fat bastard you!)

Never read pornographic material. (Just look at the pictures) Never read about your problem(So stop reading, right now!). Keep it out of mind. Remember -- "First a thought, then an act." The thought pattern must be changed. You must not allow this problem to remain in your mind. When you accomplish that, you soon will be free of the act.

Put wholesome thoughts into your mind at all times. Read good books -- Church books -- Scriptures -- Sermons of the Brethren. Make a daily habit of reading at least one chapter of Scripture, preferably from one of the four Gospels in the New Testament, or the Book of Mormon. The four Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- above anything else in the Bible can be helpful because of their uplifting qualities (Uplifting? Jesus, these guys must get a hard-on thinking about the bible, or something.)

Pray. But when you pray, don't pray about this problem, for that will tend to keep it in your mind more than ever. Pray for faith, pray for understanding of the Scriptures, pray for the Missionaries, the General Authorities, your friends, your families, but keep the problem out of your mind by not mentioning it ever -- not in conversation with others, not in your prayers. keep it out of your mind! (Do this, and your problem will be well in hand...)
The attitude of a person toward his problem has an effect on how easy it is to overcome. It is essential that a firm commitment be made to control the habit. As a person understands his reasons for the behavior, and is sensitive to the conditions or situations that may trigger a desire for the act, he develops the power to control it.

We are taught that our bodies are temples of God, and are to be clean so that the Holy Ghost may dwell within us. Masturbation is a sinful habit that robs one of the Spirit and creates guilt and emotional stress. It is not physically harmful unless practiced in the extreme. It is a habit that is totally self-centered, and secretive, and in no way expresses the proper use of the procreative power given to man to fulfill eternal purposes. It therefore separates a person from God and defeats the gospel plan.

This self-gratifying activity will cause one to lose his self-respect and feel guilty and depressed, which can in the extreme lead to further sinning. As a person feels spiritually unclean, he loses his interest in prayer, his testimony becomes weak, and missionary work and other Church callings become burdensome, offering no joy and limited success. (That was just funny enough, I didn't need to say anything!)

To help in planning an effective program to overcome the problem a brief explanation is given of how the reproductive organs in a young man function.

The testes in your body are continually producing hundreds of millions of reproductive cells call spermatozoa. These are moved up a tube called the vas deferens to a place called the ampulla where they are mixed with fluids from two membranous pouches called seminal vesicles and the prostate gland. The resultant fluid is called semen. When the seminal vesicles are full a signal is sent to the central nervous system indicating they are ready to be emptied. The rate at which the filling takes place varies greatly from one person to another, depending on such things as diet, exercise, state of health, etc. For some it may be several times a week, for others twice a month and for others, hardly ever. (Wow, which category do you fall under, sir?)

It is normal for the vesicles to be emptied occasionally at night during sleep. This is called a wet dream. The impulses that cause the emptying come from the central nervous system. Often an erotic dream is experienced at the same time, and is a part of this normal process. If a young man has consistently masturbated instead of letting nature take its course, the reproductive system is operating at a more rapid pace, trying to keep up with the loss of semen. When he stops the habit, the body will continue to produce at this increased rate, for an indefinite period of time, creating sexual tensions and pressure. These are not harmful and are to be endured until the normal central nervous system pathway of release is once again established.

During this period of control several things can be done to make the process easier and more effective.

As one meets with his Priesthood Leader, a program for overcoming masturbation can be implemented using some of the suggestions which follow. Remember it is essential that a regular report program be agreed on, so progress can be recognized and failures understood and eliminated.

Suggestions
Pray daily, ask for the gifts of the Spirit, that which will strengthen you against temptation. Pray fervently and out lout when the temptations are the strongest. (Does yelling out, "Oh, God!" when you orgasm count?)

Follow a program of vigorous daily exercise. The exercises reduce emotional tension and depression and are absolutely basic to the solution of this problem. Double your physical activity when you feel stress increasing. (Wanking is excercise, right?

When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind and then recite a prechosen Scripture or sing an inspirational hymn. It is important to turn your thoughts away from the selfish need to indulge.

Set goals of abstinence, begin with a day, then a week, month, year and finally commit to never doing it again. Until you commit yourself to _never again_ you will always be open to temptation. (Okay, I'll start with... an hour!)

Change in behavior and attitude is most easily achieved through a changed self-image. Spend time every day imagining yourself strong and in control, easily overcoming tempting situations. (What? Yes, my right hand is stronger and more in control than my left. Why do you ask?)

Begin to work daily on a self-improvement program. Relate this plan to improving your Church service, to improving your relationships with your family, God and others. Strive to enhance your strengths and talents. (Can you imagine the conversation? "Elder, Elder, Wanna watch me stop masturbating? HHHRNGHHhh!" Sadly, my talent I can strengthen is masturbation.)

Be outgoing and friendly. Force yourself to be with others and learn to enjoy working and talking to them. Use principles of developing friendships found in books such as How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. (Yeah, the occasional circle jerk is good for you! Just ask the Boy Scouts!)

Be aware of situations that depress you or that cause you to feel lonely, bored, frustrated or discouraged (Like a lack of masturbation?). These emotional states can trigger the desire to masturbate as a way of escape. Plan in advance to counter these low periods through various activities, such as reading a book, visiting a friend, doing something athletic, etc.

Make a pocket calendar for a month on a small card. Carry it with you, but show it to no one. If you have a lapse of self control, color the day black. Your goal will be to have no black days. The calendar becomes a strong visual reminder of self control and should be looked at when you are tempted to add another black day. Keep your calendar up until you have at least three clear months.

A careful study will indicate you have had the problem at certain times and under certain conditions. Try and recall, in detail, what your particular times and conditions were. Now that you understand how it happens, plan to break the pattern through counter activities. (Okay, the condition was... I was horny! So the next time my problem ummm... comes up, I'll just beat it down!)

In the field of psychotherapy there is a very effective technique called aversion therapy. When we associate or think of something very distasteful with something which has been pleasurable, but undesirable, the distasteful thought and feeling will begin to cancel out that which was pleasurable. If you associate something very distasteful with your loss of self-control it will help you to stop the act. For example, if you are tempted to masturbate, think of having to bathe in a tub of worms, and eating several of them as you do the act. (Of course, then later in life you could be turned on by the thought of a tub of worms, all writhing around you, mmmmm...)

During your toileting and shower activities leave the bathroom door or shower curtain partly open, to discourage being alone in total privacy. (You exhibitionist, you!)Take cool brief showers.

Arise immediately in the mornings. Do not lie in bed awake, no matter what time of day it is. Get up and do something. Start each day with an enthusiastic activity. (Like wanking?)

Keep your bladder empty. Refrain from drinking large amounts of fluids before retiring.

Reduce the amount of spices and condiments in your food. Eat as lightly as possible at night. (But eat alot of midnight snacks!)

Wear pajamas that are difficult to open, yet loose and not binding.

Avoid people, situations, pictures or reading materials that might create sexual excitement.
It is sometimes helpful to have a physical object to use in overcoming this problem. A Book of Mormon, firmly held in hand, even in bed at night has proven helpful in extreme cases. (Damn, do these people have repressed tendencies or what? "Firmly in hand," sheesh...)

In very severe cases it may be necessary to tie a hand to the bed frame with a tie in order that the habit of masturbating in a semi-sleep condition can be broken(Tie your hand to the bed? Isn't that like, S & M or something?). This can also be accomplished by wearing several layers of clothing which would be difficult to remove while half asleep.

Set up a reward system for your successes. It does not have to be a big reward. A quarter in a receptacle each time you overcome or reach a goal. Spend it on something which delights you and will be a continuing reminder of your progress. (Like an issue of Playboy, or something.)

Do not let yourself return to any past habit or attitude patterns which were part of your problem. Satan never gives up. Be calmly and confidently on guard. Keep a positive mental attitude. You can win this fight! The joy and strength you will feel when you do will give your whole life a radiant and spiritual glow of satisfaction and fulfillment.

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Ahh, can I jack off now?

My question to others who do not agree with me is...

Do the sexual habits of a young boy or girl with him or herself affect you in any way?

Exactly. Why does anyone actually care about if masturbation is immoral?!?! It is your own personal business, NOT ANYONE ELSES!

check out the website www.boysunderattack.com for some great info on this subject


If you think you are Christian, yes, then that is a good site.

But not for anyone else.

btw: I'm a woman. I've masturbated since I was 12, and I STILL DO.
So, how often do women masturbate then? Do they at all? :confused:

From a Christian perspective, yes, it is immoral. Sex is a good thing given by God, but only within the proper context of a male and female committed to each other for life (ie marriage). Reproduction is a reflection of God - a male and female produce a child, much like the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son. The sexual act is intended by God to be a giving act, where you give of yourself completely to your partner for their pleasure, not your own. This is what true love is - putting other's pleasure and comfort before your own. Masturbation is immoral in that it removes the procreative aspect from the sexual act, thus denying God, and that it is a purely selfish act, thus denying love.

Not that disrespectful, the Egyptians had an organised pantheon when all of our modern religions were running around in diapers - and they believed the world was created by masturbation.

But that was the belief of the Egyptians, not Christians. Christians do not teach it, and it is a mockery of our beliefs. Do you actually expect a Christian to find the statement amusing and inoffensive?

I can not answer to whether all girls masturbate.

I know that in my childhood home, which was all girls, we all did it.
I know that I do it. As well as other healthy expressions of sex that do not include the physical presence of other person (phones are such wondrous things). How often? Heh... thats my business and no one elses.

Alright, It's time for me to alienate my fellow Christians. I am a Protestant (meaning that if you have problems with The Church, I probably share them) and I think that its not a good thing, but necessary. Yeah its lust and lust is bad, but lust is a thought. You can no more control it than you can control thoughts about being hungry or tired. I don't really do it for fun, I do what I like to call "maintenance wanks". They eliminate sperm, which houses testoserone, which is what causes those embarrasing public boners when you see a hot girl. Anything I can do to prevent that I'm all for it. Besides, what do you think is worse in the eyes of God; having a quick monkey spanking session or having sex with an actual girl and maybe bringing an illigetimate child into the world? I think God kinda turns a blind eye towards masturbation myself, but then I have all sorts of wierd ideas about my Faith.

But that was the belief of the Egyptians, not Christians. Christians do not teach it, and it is a mockery of our beliefs. Do you actually expect a Christian to find the statement amusing and inoffensive?

Except that you 'little cult' was still savages bonking each other on the heads with thigh-bones when the Egyptians were codifying their religion.

You christians really are full of yourselves, aren't you.

If you think about it, all that stuff about the pharaoh, moses, joseph and his spangly dressing gown, all that stuff is a mockery of the egyptian faith... do you really think that one of the greatest civilisations ever to grace the planets surface wanted slaves putting their filthy, uneducated hands all over their tombs and monuments. Get off your high horse, and give us all a break.

And, if you had bothered to read any of those ancient texts, you would know that tracts of the bible are stolen directly from babylonian, egyptian, etc. religious documents already in existence thousands of years before the soon-to-be-christians had even potty trained their culture.

Grave_n_idle: Woot... you had post 69!
WTG!
*finds this rather amusing considering the subject*

From a Christian perspective, yes, it is immoral. Sex is a good thing given by God, but only within the proper context of a male and female committed to each other for life (ie marriage). Reproduction is a reflection of God - a male and female produce a child, much like the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son. The sexual act is intended by God to be a giving act, where you give of yourself completely to your partner for their pleasure, not your own. This is what true love is - putting other's pleasure and comfort before your own. Masturbation is immoral in that it removes the procreative aspect from the sexual act, thus denying God, and that it is a purely selfish act, thus denying love.

But, WHY is it immoral?

Just because you don't conceive a child? So.... someone calling me on the phone is immoral, if I am having sex?

By biblical definition, all sex is sin anyway - look at Adam and Eve's fallen state. So - by that measure, a quick hand job is actually a sign of devotion.

The holy spirit proceeds from the Father and Son... and that reminds you of childbirth. That has got to be the most homoerotic version of the trinity I've ever encountered.

Masturbation is a giving act... you give yourself a hand-job. Or, you masturbate your partner, so - surely that's okay?

And why does masturbation deny love? Masturbation is SEX WITH someone you love.

I do like the idea that masturbation is denying god, though... means I go and beat-off now.... poooof, no more god.

By the way... you don't happen to have any scriptural evidence against masturbation at all, do you. Just a load of stuff about why we should all be bumping like bunnies.

(And the world needs that, with 6 billion people).

The problem with these "85% of the population masturbates" is that many girls will not openly admit that they masturbate.

I am female. I masturbate. (*gasp!* the percentage just went up!)
For some reason everyone *knows* guys masturbate, and guys will admit.. but for some reason its extremely taboo for a girl to masturbate or even admit she does.

One of my guy friends has been masturbating since he was in kindergarten.
He is now 18, a web designer and has made $30 an hour since he is 16. he is planning on upping his rates to $50 an hour. And honestly, people would pay that for his work.

I think that disproves any belief that masturbation makes you unproductive and un sucessful.


Masturbation allows you to familiarize yourself with.. yourself. When with a sexual partner it really helps so that you're not each rubbing random things in the hopes it will feel good. You'll be able to tell the other person what feels good. and thats a real turn on ;)

On a Biblical perspective, in reality- masturbation isn't a "sin". What is a sin, is the sexual fantasies that often come with the practice.

people, how about this, for all of us kinky bastards ;)

If masturbation is bad, if its a sin, it being so bad just turns us kinky people on, making us want to do it more, because its like a defiance of 'morality' if it is immoral, which adds to the daring nature of it :p

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it! :D

http://shibbytk.com/images/kitten.jpg

You know, this is why I start such subjects as these. It gets people thinking. It brings up controversy, and I love it all!

Let me ask you all this (or at least, those of you against masturbation):

Is masturbation a part of the growing process? Is it a part of discovering one's self? And is masturbation considered sinfully wrong when two people who love each other very much fondle and caress each other (masturbate, in other words) to the point of orgasm? Is that not a sign of love and trust? Of further bonding within the relationship?

I ask these questions, because I think some of us here may be getting slightly off the subject. It's just meant to bring everyone back to square one.

You know, this is why I start such subjects as these. It gets people thinking. It brings up controversy, and I love it all!Right.

Let me ask you all this (or at least, those of you against masturbation):

Is masturbation a part of the growing process?
Is it a part of discovering one's self?
Yes
Yes

And is masturbation considered sinfully wrong when two people who love each other very much fondle and caress each other (masturbate, in other words) to the point of orgasm?
It is never wrong, and anyone who thinks so, suffers under a totally unneccesary (often Judeo-Christian) guilt complex and the often abused predicament of "sin". Clever marketing: Invent problem, offer solution.

Is that not a sign of love and trust? Of further bonding within the relationship?
Yes
Yes

I ask these questions, because I think some of us here may be getting slightly off the subject. It's just meant to bring everyone back to square one.

You control freak, you.

Surely the Christian and wider religious view is not that masturbation itself as a physical act is wrong, just that lust is a sin? If your fantasy is not fully concentrated on getting your end away, and you focus on your lover's pleasure(I find the image of making a making moan with pleasure very erotic) then it isn't selfish lust and isn't sinful. So masturbation is sinful in the same way rape and fornication are sinful, it's selfish lust. Since that doesn't always follow for fornication(sex out of wedlock) and masturbation, they aren't always sins, and since power can often be a drive in rape, it would be a sin for that reason instead.

This has started to come up, but here's what I've heard.

Actually, first let me clarify that a) I do not think masturbation is immoral or anything like that and b) here's another girl who does it(+0.0000000003%).

Anyway, on other message boards, the arguments I've heard from many Christians are based on the assumption that a fantasy, and therefore lustful thought, is required for masturbation. Well, here's news: it's perfectly possible to reach an orgasm through purely physical stimulation. In fact, personally, I just find it distracting to think about someone. I realize there are other reasons people think it's wrong, and maybe that was a little terse, but there's my two cents on that particular argument.

P.S. "If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate" is from Monty Python. It's really quite a funny song.

JESUS! ENOUGH WITH THE QUESTIONS OF MORALITY!

...no...it's not immoral. And I think that if you think it is immoral, you need some help

I think the only reason people tell you it's immoral is because they don't care to walk in on you doing it. And your mom is sick of washing your suspiciously starchy socks and sheets. ;)

Oh, and on a related note, I might as well tell the American contingent here that there is such a thing as Kleenex for Men in the UK. They're bigger...for...umm...

Forget it. :rolleyes:

Idle hands spend time at the genitals, and you know how much god hates that
I like masturbation
and anyone that says people shouldn't do it or that they don't do it or that they are trying to quit or anything irritate me
As someone said earlier, wouldn't you rather control it than wake up covered in goo? (though I guess some people like goo.....)

This has started to come up, but here's what I've heard.

Actually, first let me clarify that a) I do not think masturbation is immoral or anything like that and b) here's another girl who does it(+0.0000000003%).

Anyway, on other message boards, the arguments I've heard from many Christians are based on the assumption that a fantasy, and therefore lustful thought, is required for masturbation. Well, here's news: it's perfectly possible to reach an orgasm through purely physical stimulation. In fact, personally, I just find it distracting to think about someone. I realize there are other reasons people think it's wrong, and maybe that was a little terse, but there's my two cents on that particular argument.

P.S. "If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate" is from Monty Python. It's really quite a funny song.
actually a much larger percentage of the female population masturbate than you would think. I believe it's like 7/10 young women (in the US) that admitted to doing it at least once before.

The argument I heard from a (very agnostic) friend who went to Catholic school is that because in the Bible...one of those guys (I can never remember their names) did something god didn't like, so god smote him. So then, his wife had to go to his brother...then as they were getting it on, the brother changed his mind, so god smote him for spilling his semen onto the floor instead of into his recently deceased brother's widow. So naturally, Catholicism believes that you shouldn't waste your semen.
I wonder if it follows that women shouldn't waste their eggs? :eek:

Some people can also get off by only lustful thinking, without physical contact? I wonder if that's immoral (I hope not) ;)

Except that you 'little cult' was still savages bonking each other on the heads with thigh-bones when the Egyptians were codifying their religion.

You have no way to prove that the Egyptian religion began before Judaism. Even though the Torah was written by Moses, you cannot prove there was no oral religious tradition before the Egyptians began their religion.

And, if you had bothered to read any of those ancient texts, you would know that tracts of the bible are stolen directly from babylonian, egyptian, etc. religious documents already in existence thousands of years before the soon-to-be-christians had even potty trained their culture.

How many of those ancient texts have you read? Or are you just getting your information from someone else who has? And similarity does not necessarily equate plagearism. You might think so, but you'll need more concrete than similarity of texts to convince me.

The biblical story refers to Onan. Hence the term "onanism" when people want to be coy about the issue of masurbation. Really, it's not about masturbation at all, since he was actually "belly painting". He pulled out, to be frank.

I think they play a lot on the "spilled seed" aspect of the story.

The argument I heard from a (very agnostic) friend who went to Catholic school is that because in the Bible...one of those guys (I can never remember their names) did something god didn't like, so god smote him. So then, his wife had to go to his brother...then as they were getting it on, the brother changed his mind, so god smote him for spilling his semen onto the floor instead of into his recently deceased brother's widow. So naturally, Catholicism believes that you shouldn't waste your semen.
I wonder if it follows that women shouldn't waste their eggs? :eek:

So you're getting your info about Catholicism from an agnostic instead of somebody who is actually learned in the faith? That's like me asking an investment banker about quantum mechanics.

P.S. "If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate" is from Monty Python. It's really quite a funny song.

What I find funny is that a song quite blatently making fun of the attitude being discussed was quoted to make the point clear.

That takes a special kind of attitude.

But, WHY is it immoral?

Just because you don't conceive a child? So.... someone calling me on the phone is immoral, if I am having sex?

No, it is immoral because there is a 0% chance that a child will be conceived.

By biblical definition, all sex is sin anyway - look at Adam and Eve's fallen state. So - by that measure, a quick hand job is actually a sign of devotion.

Have you not read Genesis?

Genesis 2:21-24 So the Lord God cast a deep sleep on the man, and while he was asleep, he took out one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. The Lord God then built up into a woman the rib that he had taken from the man. When he brought her to the man, the man said: "This one, at last, is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; This one shall be called 'woman,' for out of 'her man' this one has been taken." That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body. (NAB)

The story of the fall of man doesn't occur until chapter 3.

By the way... you don't happen to have any scriptural evidence against masturbation at all, do you.

You're assuming that scripture is my sole teaching authority. You're assuming wrong. John Paul II wrote a huge document entitled "Theology of the Body" that outlines human sexuality in detail, based off of both Scripture and Tradition, which are inseperable in Catholic theology.

So you're getting your info about Catholicism from an agnostic instead of somebody who is actually learned in the faith? That's like me asking an investment banker about quantum mechanics.
let me repeat myself:
from a friend who is agnostic but was raised catholic from when he was born until he was 18 and went to a (really good) catholic high school where he was taught by priests
I would say he is educated in the faith
I was in his dorm room reading the bible and I commented on that part because I was confused. He told me, that at his catholic high school, they claimed that that was the reason that they think masturbation is bad

Is masturbation immoral and "sinfully" wrong?No.

You have no way to prove that the Egyptian religion began before Judaism. Even though the Torah was written by Moses, you cannot prove there was no oral religious tradition before the Egyptians began their religion.

I'm a bit of an amateur Egyptologist (try saying that after a few), Egyptian religion started to see the first Egypt-wide dietys around the time the Upper and Lower Kingdoms were first united, around 3000 B.C., and had its origins even earlier.
According to this (http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/judaism/geness.html), Judaism has its origins about 3000 years ago, 1000 B.C.
Egypt wins by at least 1000 years.

How many of those ancient texts have you read? Or are you just getting your information from someone else who has? And similarity does not necessarily equate plagearism. You might think so, but you'll need more concrete than similarity of texts to convince me.
There are a few coincidences, though. For example Horus/Jesus and the Holy Trinity (http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/horus.html). See also similarities between Osiris/Seth and Lucifer.

I'm a bit of an amateur Egyptologist (try saying that after a few), Egyptian religion started to see the first Egypt-wide dietys around the time the Upper and Lower Kingdoms were first united, around 3000 B.C., and had its origins even earlier.
According to this (http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/judaism/geness.html), Judaism has its origins about 3000 years ago, 1000 B.C.
Egypt wins by at least 1000 years..

That article is probably referring to the institution of the Mosaic laws after the exile from Egypt. However, Genesis describes events all the way back to what is claimed to be the beginning of mankind. With that in mind, the origens of Judaism outdate the Egyptian religion.

There are a few coincidences, though. For example Horus/Jesus and the Holy Trinity (http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/horus.html). See also similarities between Osiris/Seth and Lucifer.

You're not telling me anything I haven't heard before. Jesus also 'parallels' many other religious figures. For a refutation, go here:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho2.html

That article is probably referring to the institution of the Mosaic laws after the exile from Egypt. However, Genesis describes events all the way back to what is claimed to be the beginning of mankind. With that in mind, the origens of Judaism outdate the Egyptian religion.
I don't consider the Bible an accurate historic document. The Bible says the Earth was created ~4000 B.C. (http://www.netrover.com/~numbers/biblical-chronolgy-1c..html)
Egyptian religion (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/religiousorigin.htm) is still older than this date:
Recent study of sites at Nabta Playa and Bir Kisseiba in the Sahara west of the Upper Nile Valley indicate that cattle were particularly important in the development of Egyptian religious beliefs. They may have been venerated even prior to their domestication around 7000 BC. At Tushka in Nubia, the horn cores of cows were placed in burials as early as 10,000 BC, suggesting their afterlife beliefs.

You're not telling me anything I haven't heard before. Jesus also 'parallels' many other religious figures. For a refutation, go here:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho2.html
And that's nothing I haven't heard before. Every religion will borrow the 'best bits' from earlier stories, it's human nature.

We're wading waaaay off topic here, though.

I agree, we are getting waaayyy off the topic here. I meant for this to be controversial and to get us all thinking. I did not expect this to turn into a full blown religious riot. But, if that's the way the cookie crumbles....then so be it! :D

Comedy "I'm doing it as I read this" option

*sighs*
Yes we are.

Lord, save me from YOUR people...

Ok, time to come out of the closet. I am a Pagan. Formerly of the Pentescostal Church, I am now a full-fledge practicing witch. That being said, I want to offer something to all of you out there trying to get the critical mass of Christians to see that theirs isnt the first and only religion.... "GIVE UP."

I realize that some Christians have lived long enough to be passionate about their beliefs without being thumpers, but many havent. Of all the passages in the Bible they remember most it is the "Go ye into all the world" bit. The "Love thy neighbor as thyself" rule gets swept nicely under the carpet.

You can offer anything and everything to that kind of person in way of proof and they WILL NOT SEE. So stop wasting your time arguing back. They will think they've won, which will get the to shut up, and you can have one less headache later.

If it feels good it cant be wrong. :p

You have no way to prove that the Egyptian religion began before Judaism. Even though the Torah was written by Moses, you cannot prove there was no oral religious tradition before the Egyptians began their religion.


You have no way to prove that Moses wrote the Torah. You have no way to prove the Hebrews had an oral tradition. So, what was your point?

The first books of the old testament were written, at the very earliest, when the Hebrews were in Babylon. Although you can assume that the Hebrews 'might' have had religious teachings at that point, there is absolutely no evidence. And, somewhat suspiciously - when they finally did write down their religious mythology, it bore an uncanny resemblence to the books the Babylonians already had had for a thousand years.


How many of those ancient texts have you read? Or are you just getting your information from someone else who has? And similarity does not necessarily equate plagearism. You might think so, but you'll need more concrete than similarity of texts to convince me.

How many of those ancient texts have you read? I'm willing to bet that I have read many more of them than you, because you have obviously not read any. Try it. Try reading the Gilgamesh myths that were extant long before the Hebrews even had a written tradition. Try reading the codes of laws that were (Literally) carved into stone long before the supposed birth of Moses - and to which the mosaic laws bear more than a slight resemblence.

And while you are reading the Babylonian flood myth, compare it to the Hebrew flood myth - you will notice that there are actually areas where whole sentences are stolen by the Hebrew writers from the (earlier) Babylonian text.

it is my belief that what people don't know can't hurt them...if someone is unaware that you masturbate, they really don't need to know...unless they ask. For examble, if your girlfriend or spose starts to wonder, after numerous stains or the inablity to ejactulate during sex, she will ask...in which case you should be completely truthful, but if it's like a friend or parent, unless it is a serious situation, they never need to find out.
masturbation? immoral? no, simply a secreative method of self pleasure, stress relival, and understanding of one's own body...only to be shared at one's own confidence.

Ok im going to to go off on a tangent for a min.... HEY im Catholic can we stop bashing the people of the church for what the Vatican says? I mean really how often does the American Catholic Church listen to the Vatican anyway?? I find that there may be good Catholic Churches and theres bad ones im a good one they are realistic... for instance i was taught at church that masturbation isnt bad its natural and having sex for pleasure isnt bad either just as long as its with ur wife. And being gay not bad i realize my church is among the minorities but if people would stop looking at the church for its political views (and the church stop giving political views for that matter...) and looked at their views on other topics u find that the catholic church is foremost in helping other people atleast in my area as well as other areas ive visited in America. Sorry I just get on here and it doesnt matter what the threads on theres always people who just bash catholics just because they can.

And now my thoughts: masterbation/sex are natural things they arent evil they arent immoral they are natural... and humans arent the only animal on this earth that has sex for pleasure. Dolphins have sex for pleasure as well so does that make them immoral animals? if not why should we be judged by a differant system??? Masterbation and a man thinking of a woman :fluffle: or vice versa is just as natural as breathing or thinking hey i might be hungry right now etc etc.....

No, it is immoral because there is a 0% chance that a child will be conceived.


No - if you are sterile, you're not allowed to have sex? That's an interesting idea, because the bible is full of barren women (notice that the phallo-centric judeo-christian faith always has barren WOMEN) who conceive... so their husbands must have been boinking them anyway. Such immorality! And god rewarded them with children! Such hypocrisy!


Have you not read Genesis?

Genesis 2:21-24 So the Lord God cast a deep sleep on the man, and while he was asleep, he took out one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. The Lord God then built up into a woman the rib that he had taken from the man. When he brought her to the man, the man said: "This one, at last, is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; This one shall be called 'woman,' for out of 'her man' this one has been taken." That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body. (NAB)



Actually, yes I have read Genesis. Rather thoroughly. Obviously more thoroughly than you have, since you fail to have noticed that this contains one of the most obvious cases of later "EDITING" by Hebrew scholars.

A man "leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife"? So - Adam left his mother? No - he didn't have one... and they hadn't had sex yet, so they had no children, so there were no other mothers?

It's an anachronism, and not the only one. Just admit, the book has been edited by later writers for at least 2500 years. If there was any truth to it when they started writing, there's no way to sift it from the remains now.

Thankyou for the oppurtunity to mention it.


You're assuming that scripture is my sole teaching authority. You're assuming wrong. John Paul II wrote a huge document entitled "Theology of the Body" that outlines human sexuality in detail, based off of both Scripture and Tradition, which are inseperable in Catholic theology.

If your only OTHER source is Papal texts, then you are fighting an uphill battle, since, you may not have noticed: the Pope isn't ACTUALLY god.

(And before you bring in dogmatic law, or the pope being 'gods elected on earth' or any of that crap... remember, the only guy who says the pope is gods messenger is the pope - which might be considered a biased source)

(And before you start in on the biblical accounts, and the formation of the church - remember that that's just one book + it's been edited + they picked the books that made it till today. The Gospel of Mary Magdelene never made it into the official bible, and no wonder, since it sets her up as the head of the one true church, according to Jesus. No wonder the predominantly male church 'left-out' a book that empowered women).

dudes, way off topic...i don't the pope needs to be dragged into a topic about masturbation

1) (answer to the question of the post) I answer your question with another question. Is the Pope Jewish?

2) I noticed some chatter about getting info about catholicism from an agnostic being unreliable. I am an agnostic, I have gone to catholic school for 12 years. I am an agnostic because I have gone to catholic school for 12 years, they taught me so much about catholicism that I began to see holes in their ideology. That and the fact that most people when talking about catholicism can't give me a straight answer when I question them other than "well you must have faith" just doesn't do it for me anymore. Faith is a cop-out when you can't believe in something based on it's own merits. So bottom line, don't always assume that people aren't reliable just because they're talking about something that may be off their beaten path, especially because they are the ones who may give you the straightest answers to your questions.

Adam couldn't leave his mother, and Adam and Eve's children couldn't cling to their wives considering apparently they were the only ones around so did the kids cling to Eve or did they have sisters to cling to?

That article is probably referring to the institution of the Mosaic laws after the exile from Egypt. However, Genesis describes events all the way back to what is claimed to be the beginning of mankind. With that in mind, the origens of Judaism outdate the Egyptian religion.


Except that the Egyptians actually do document the 'rise' of the Hebrews, who they considered to be backwards cattle-herders... they called them the 'hill-dwellers' or Hapiru. So - the Egyptians had religion, society, and education before the Hebrews had progressed beyond herding.

Also - if the Bible were literally true - we would have none of the records the Egyptians wrote before the flood is supposed to have happened. Those documents still survive - so the world wide flood is disproved, just by a paper-trail.

Also - if the Bible were true, and the Hebrews were trapped in Egypt in servitude, and forced to work on monuments (yeah - like the Egyptian masons would have let them TOUCH religious artifacts), and eventually liberated themselves in a god-powered exodus... how is it that the Egyptians failed to notice? Failed to document Moses as the adopted Hebrew son of a pharoah? Failed to notice a huge number of their slaves being emancipated by miracles?

If you have a little knowledge, about one religion - don't try to wage a war on the other, older religions. You have no basis, and you are, quite simply, wrong.

Oh - and as I mentioned earlier - masturbation held a very sacred emaning to the Egyptians.

how could masturbation possibly be immoral?! what the Bible has to say doesn't have anything to do with whether something is moral; the Bible endorses slavery, rape, murder, incest, drunkenness, and assault.

- SHA BAM ! - :D
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:





masturbation is fun but it gives u a rash





:upyours: :upyours::upyours:

but still i think pple that masturbate are ugly fucktards that cand find a person :upyours:




fuck masturbation im never doin it again
:upyours:




and fuck these shitty forums
:upyours:

....and fuck you for wasting our time and going off the topic like the fucking 7 year old brat that you undoubtly are. Keep your pointless shit off this forum, asshole.

Well.....didn't THAT kill the topic....

but still i think pple that masturbate are ugly fucktards that cand find a person :upyours:
Masturbaters are inherently ugly.

how could masturbation possibly be immoral?! what the Bible has to say doesn't have anything to do with whether something is moral; the Bible endorses slavery, rape, murder, incest, drunkenness, and assault.
I like someone reads one verse out of context and thinks they have a good understanding of what the Bible has to say. Similarly, the US Constitution endorses slavery, sexism, and drunkedness.

Here is my answer:

"If God didn't want us to Masturbate he would've made our arms shorter. Hey can you give me a hand here?" -George Carlin

I'm masturbating right now.

Except that the Egyptians actually do document the 'rise' of the Hebrews, who they considered to be backwards cattle-herders... they called them the 'hill-dwellers' or Hapiru. So - the Egyptians had religion, society, and education before the Hebrews had progressed beyond herding.

Also - if the Bible were literally true - we would have none of the records the Egyptians wrote before the flood is supposed to have happened. Those documents still survive - so the world wide flood is disproved, just by a paper-trail.

Also - if the Bible were true, and the Hebrews were trapped in Egypt in servitude, and forced to work on monuments (yeah - like the Egyptian masons would have let them TOUCH religious artifacts), and eventually liberated themselves in a god-powered exodus... how is it that the Egyptians failed to notice? Failed to document Moses as the adopted Hebrew son of a pharoah? Failed to notice a huge number of their slaves being emancipated by miracles?

If you have a little knowledge, about one religion - don't try to wage a war on the other, older religions. You have no basis, and you are, quite simply, wrong.

Oh - and as I mentioned earlier - masturbation held a very sacred emaning to the Egyptians.

I don't know how well versed in ancient mythology, but Hebrew mythology bears even more resemblence to Hittite mythology than Egyptian myth or even Babylonian myth. Just thought you should check that out. In case you didn't know, it would strengthen your argument even more.

From a Christian perspective, yes, it is immoral. Sex is a good thing given by God, but only within the proper context of a male and female committed to each other for life (ie marriage). Reproduction is a reflection of God - a male and female produce a child, much like the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son. The sexual act is intended by God to be a giving act, where you give of yourself completely to your partner for their pleasure, not your own. This is what true love is - putting other's pleasure and comfort before your own. Masturbation is immoral in that it removes the procreative aspect from the sexual act, thus denying God, and that it is a purely selfish act, thus denying love.

God is such a busybody. Why doesn't he mind his own business. If I want to evacuate my body of a few million spermatozoa that will otherwise be unused, it's none his anybody's business (especially some hyper-sensitive deity who needs constant affirmation.)

By the way, my wife is on the pill. We plan on never having kids. Ever. So if we don't pump out a kid every nine months are we "removing the procreative aspect, thus denying god?" Are we going to hell? Say it ain't so.

I'm masturbating right now.

fwap fwap fwap

you people are ridiculous, it doesn't matter if the whole world is doing it or not, its still wrong. You have just been desensitized, and I'm sure you aren't going to do any serious harm to yourself or another if you don't do it. The Bible doesn't endorse all those things, just because it has it in it. Are you saying all your liberal literature that I'm sure many of you get your information from endorses bush and all those great things you like to ridicule.

you people are ridiculous, it doesn't matter if the whole world is doing it or not, its still wrong. You have just been desensitized, and I'm sure you aren't going to do any serious harm to yourself or another if you don't do it. The Bible doesn't endorse all those things, just because it has it in it. Are you saying all your liberal literature that I'm sure many of you get your information from endorses bush and all those great things you like to ridicule.
Your mouth says no, but your heart says yes.

I'd like to point out something to the religious aspect of this chat:

All Religions in the World Have These Things in Common:

Our view is inherently better than all others views. If you do not believe our views, you will be condemended to eternal suffering. Because our views are right, all others must follow them, including putting them into law, whether it be democratically, by a theocracy or by a de facto law enforced by us. Our scripture prohibits killing but we do it anyway to spread our wisdom.

Now tell me again what your argument is?

You find it immoral?

Oh, that's nice. Free country (if you're in a free country, that is).

God'll get POed?

Oh, that's nice. Do I look like I care? Fuck him. (why should I be offended if you're offended? After all, I don't care, remember?)

God will condemn us to eternal suffering?

Yes, we know, because God loves us because we're his children. I've heard that one before. Can it.

God says masturbating is immoral?

Oh, that's nice. Anything else?

God says penises are for reproduction only?

God forbid! (ha ha) Did got intend for cow's milk only to go into baby cows? Did got intend for fruits and veggies only to create new fruits and veggies? "Thow shall not kill" Thow shall not eat?

God says you're condemned to hell?

The MCS says I'll kick your ass

bitch.



That's all I have to say on religion.

As for masturbating... Fun, fun, fun. 4-5 times a day keeps the doctor away! Of course, if I had any luck, maybe I wouldn't need it, but you know, keep hittin' top, gotta relieve myself... What, God says I gotta suffer?

Or maybe God lives in us all and likes watching wet dreams?

I'd like to point out something to the religious aspect of this chat:

All Religions in the World Have These Things in Common:



Now tell me again what your argument is?

You find it immoral?

Oh, that's nice. Free country (if you're in a free country, that is).

God'll get POed?

Oh, that's nice. Do I look like I care? Fuck him. (why should I be offended if you're offended? After all, I don't care, remember?)

God will condemn us to eternal suffering?

Yes, we know, because God loves us because we're his children. I've heard that one before. Can it.

God says masturbating is immoral?

Oh, that's nice. Anything else?

God says penises are for reproduction only?

God forbid! (ha ha) Did got intend for cow's milk only to go into baby cows? Did got intend for fruits and veggies only to create new fruits and veggies? "Thow shall not kill" Thow shall not eat?

God says you're condemned to hell?

The MCS says I'll kick your ass

bitch.



That's all I have to say on religion.

As for masturbating... Fun, fun, fun. 4-5 times a day keeps the doctor away! Of course, if I had any luck, maybe I wouldn't need it, but you know, keep hittin' top, gotta relieve myself... What, God says I gotta suffer?

Or maybe God lives in us all and likes watching wet dreams?


Dude, you kick ass! I loved your post! Keep on rockin' in the free world!

I don't know how well versed in ancient mythology, but Hebrew mythology bears even more resemblence to Hittite mythology than Egyptian myth or even Babylonian myth. Just thought you should check that out. In case you didn't know, it would strengthen your argument even more.

I chose to refer to Babylon and Egypt for two specific reasons:

1) Most of the people that are unaware of the religious plagiarism that occurs in the bible are well versed in the 'evils' that are Babylon and Egypt - they know all about the 'cruel tyranny' of those two powers, who 'enslaved the poor Hebrews'. I like to illustrate that, far from being a lessening force on the Hebrews, the Hebrews do, in fact, owe a great deal of their culture and history to their so called oppressors. In fact, were it not for Cyrus II, the Persian ruler of Babylon - there would have been no 'great temple', since he sponsored it.

2) Although the Hittite stories often come closer to some of the threads the Hebrews used, the flood account seems to be DIRECTLY stolen (and I mean, practically word-for-word) from the Babylonian version. Also - the Old Babylonian empire, and up to Hammurabi (from whom the Mosaic laws steal most of their basis) by a couple of hundred years... so, what the Hebrews evolved from the Hittites, the Hittites had probably already been evolving from Babylon.

Dude, you kick ass! I loved your post! Keep on rockin' in the free world!

Yes, freedom is good. Freedom is wise. Freedom just sounds better.

Except when you use freedom to ban freedom, like Bush, but that's another chat, ain't it?

Yes, freedom is good. Freedom is wise. Freedom just sounds better.

Except when you use freedom to ban freedom, like Bush, but that's another chat, ain't it?

Well, as Bush would say: "freedom."

I chose to refer to Babylon and Egypt for two specific reasons:

1) Most of the people that are unaware of the religious plagiarism that occurs in the bible are well versed in the 'evils' that are Babylon and Egypt - they know all about the 'cruel tyranny' of those two powers, who 'enslaved the poor Hebrews'. I like to illustrate that, far from being a lessening force on the Hebrews, the Hebrews do, in fact, owe a great deal of their culture and history to their so called oppressors. In fact, were it not for Cyrus II, the Persian ruler of Babylon - there would have been no 'great temple', since he sponsored it.

2) Although the Hittite stories often come closer to some of the threads the Hebrews used, the flood account seems to be DIRECTLY stolen (and I mean, practically word-for-word) from the Babylonian version. Also - the Old Babylonian empire, and up to Hammurabi (from whom the Mosaic laws steal most of their basis) by a couple of hundred years... so, what the Hebrews evolved from the Hittites, the Hittites had probably already been evolving from Babylon.

I understand that Babylon and Egypt are more recognizable to less educated individuals. I just wanted to see if you were aware of the parallels between Hittite and Hebrew myth.

If masturbating is so morally wrong...

Why is it that no one can say theyve never done it?
How immoral can it possibly be?

masturbating is equally as natural as blinking.

Do you think God minds if you blink?

Furthermore....
Forget the friggin bible...it says that getting a prostitute is more preferable than masturbating.

What they hell does it know?

Nobodys ever gotten pregnant by cuffing the hamster.

No ones ever gotten a V.D by flogging the dolphin.


What would you rather have your 13 year old kid doing....getting pregnant, or getting someone pregnant....

Or having a relationship with a kleenex?

Now that you mention that, Backwoods, I think any self-respecting [hetero] 13-year old boy would rather be out getting someone pregnant or getting pregnant than having a relationship with a kleenex...

Maybe God likes masturbation and he gave us the ability to do it on purpose. Maybe God put fundamentalists down here to test our faith?

I BELIEVE IN YOU!!!

Now that you mention that, Backwoods, I think any self-respecting [hetero] 13-year old boy would rather be out getting someone pregnant or getting pregnant than having a relationship with a kleenex...

Maybe God likes masturbation and he gave us the ability to do it on purpose. Maybe God put fundamentalists down here to test our faith?

I BELIEVE IN YOU!!!

Right.

They would.

Fortunately, Most 13 year olds are like a dog chasing the car.....

They wouldnt know what to do with it, if they caught it.

But.... a kleenex will never reject you.

OR GIVE YOU AIDS.

Now that you mention that, Backwoods, I think any self-respecting [hetero] 13-year old boy would rather be out getting someone pregnant or getting pregnant than having a relationship with a kleenex...

Maybe God likes masturbation and he gave us the ability to do it on purpose. Maybe God put fundamentalists down here to test our faith?

I BELIEVE IN YOU!!!

Yeah, but the question was what would you rather your 13-year-old child do?

Well, if I was a 13-year old child, I'd be chasing them like the rest of them.

If I was the parent of a 13-year old child, I'd have them locked up at night and put little cameras all over their clothes and a stun gun to Zzap them if they talk to anyone of the opposite sex.

Well, if I was a 13-year old child, I'd be chasing them like the rest of them.

If I was the parent of a 13-year old child, I'd have them locked up at night and put little cameras all over their clothes and a stun gun to Zzap them if they talk to anyone of the opposite sex.

If I had one, I'd rather my 13 year old child get it on with him or her self rather than whore it up on the town, potentially getting into alot of trouble or hurt.

If masturbation is immoral then that's 6 billion immoral people in the world.
There are only about 4 billion people on earth... :D

Closer to 7 billion, actually, well on its way to 25 billion by 2025, especially if God has decided that it's better to "stick it" in a girl (any girl) than let is go "splat" (to quote a very funny post someone left earlier).

There are only about 4 billion people on earth... :D

World Population:
6,379,157,361 (July 2004 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html

Should we really trust the CIA on this one?

Should we really trust the CIA on this one?

I don't think they'd have a reason to lie about the world population.

But here's the Census office's estimation. Surely they're trustworthy?

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/popclockw

If you really want to know whether or not it's immoral, and you're earnest about doing God's will, then go to God with the question...not humans. Pray, read the Bible, listen to your own conscience. If you don't have a problem with it, if you don't feel convicted from anything in the Bible about it, then hey...your choice...go for it. But others have done the same thing, and do feel that it's immoral. It's between you and God...not between you and 6 billion people and oh hey...let's ask God too why not...God should NOT be a last resort. The priority should be, if that's your belief system, God first...a trusted mentor second, and then leave the rest of the humans out of it, because everyone has different opinions and will try to sway you to theirs if there are differences. Make sense?

I don't think they'd have a reason to lie about the world population.

Actually, that was a joke (albeit a bad one) about the bad intelligence over the Iraqui War (the part where the CIA couldn't figure it out, not the part about Bush's lack of any intelligence, bad or whatsoever), not about the conspiracy theories.

But hey, why not another one?

"Do you think the CIA has lied about the world population?"

Actually, that was a joke (albeit a bad one) about the bad intelligence over the Iraqui War (the part where the CIA couldn't figure it out, not the part about Bush's lack of any intelligence, bad or whatsoever), not about the conspiracy theories.

But hey, why not another one?

"Do you think the CIA has lied about the world population?"

Ah. I assumed it was a crack on how the CIA lies and denies everything.

I just did a few seconds ago.

Actually, you should know, that's not the CIA, so to speak, who does that.

You all know what I'm talking about. The Other Other Other Secret Government Agency.

If you really want to know whether or not it's immoral, and you're earnest about doing God's will, then go to God with the question...not humans. Pray, read the Bible, listen to your own conscience. If you don't have a problem with it, if you don't feel convicted from anything in the Bible about it, then hey...your choice...go for it. But others have done the same thing, and do feel that it's immoral. It's between you and God...not between you and 6 billion people and oh hey...let's ask God too why not...God should NOT be a last resort. The priority should be, if that's your belief system, God first...a trusted mentor second, and then leave the rest of the humans out of it, because everyone has different opinions and will try to sway you to theirs if there are differences. Make sense?

Actually, I asked God.... he said it was okay, unless you use saran wrap, a jar of mayo, and a lifesize picture of celine dion.

And then a trusted mentor... maybe I should ask my mum....

the NSA? or the NRO?

Actually, you should know, that's not the CIA, so to speak, who does that.

You all know what I'm talking about. The Other Other Other Secret Government Agency.

The one that doesn't exist?

The one that never existed, with all their happenings that have never happened.

Amazing how the crackpots debunk themselves.

but this is somewhat off-topic — why are we all talking about the CIA and the OOO Agency? We all know government spooks don't masturbate (alien DNA)

It is mine. I was born with it. I will play with it as I see fit.

Jim

It is mine. I was born with it. I will play with it as I see fit.

Jim


Right on.

Its yours and you can wash it all you want.

Right on.

Its yours and you can wash it all you want.

I use my left hand, but thab=nx for the kudows.

Jim

Right on.

Its yours and you can wash it all you want.

I use my left hand, but thanx for the kudows.

Jim

I use my left hand, but thanx for the kudows.

Jim


No Problem.

Anytime.

However..that may have been too much information....

I dont trust any US agencies.

It is mine. I was born with it. I will play with it as I see fit.

Oh, no you don't! God gave us all of these temptations to see if we would believe in him.

"We'll see who has faith now!"

He's a trickster god, he is. Gives us a wang but says we can't wank. Now, that is torture.

Sorry, i guess i have some outdated information.

When did you get that info? 1950?

Here is my answer:

"If God didn't want us to Masturbate he would've made our arms shorter. Hey can you give me a hand here?" -George Carlin
did anyone find this funny?

There's actually a pre-judaic myth that might explain the stigma surrounding masturbation. It's the story of Lillith.

(I'm paraphrasing, before anyone gets excited.)

Lillith was the first mate of Adam. The story goes that when they were created, they were joined physically. Then God separated them. Adam decided he was superior. He tried to get on top. Lillith got mad and walked away, said the true name of God, and flew away.

Adam ran to God and said, "Make her come back!"

God replied, "Alright, I'll send someone to talk to her."

God sent three angels to find her. When they found her, she was on the banks of the Dead Sea, making love to demons and giving birth to a hundred demon children a day.

The angels told Lillith that she had to come back. She said, "To that obnoxious bastard? You're having a laugh. You can tell him from me that I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole. Besides, I'm busy."

The angels replied that she still had her power over infants, and that since it couldn't be taken from her, they'd have to reach some kind of agreement. They proposed that she leave all babies alone that had a plaque above them with an inscription including their three names and that of Adam. Furthermore, God would kill a hundred of her babies a day. Lillith agreed, so long as she didn't have to go back to Adam.

To this day there are Jewish people who believe that when a baby younger than 7 days old giggles or smiles, that Lillith is tickling his toes, and that crib death is what happens when she takes a baby. She is also believed to steal the semen that is spilled when men masturbate or have wet dreams, to make her own children.

This is possibly the reason behind the death of Onan and also the reason behind the reason we don't like masturbation in our Judao-Christian faith.

Is Masturbation Immoral?
Only if you do it right.