NationStates Jolt Archive

Let me preface the question by stating that I would rather this not turn into a debate between the merits of Bush and Kerry. There are enough threads in this forum to do that in.

I would like to know if you Democrats and liberals are going to vote for Kerry because you like what he stands for, and for what he is saying or are you going to vote for Kerry simply because you hate Bush so much?

Just straight up answers please, no debating, as I said before there are more than enough threads already for that.

Let me preface the question by stating that I would rather this not turn into a debate between the merits of Bush and Kerry. There are enough threads in this forum to do that in.

I would like to know if you Democrats and liberals are going to vote for Kerry because you like what he stands for, and for what he is saying or are you going to vote for Kerry simply because you hate Bush so much?

Just straight up answers please, no debating, as I said before there are more than enough threads already for that.
I am not so quick to label myself as a liberal or democrat as I lay pretty central, however, I will be voting for Kerry because he is the only viable option in getting Bush out of office. I am however waiting to her him speak at the DNC and listen in on the debates to make sure there is nothing about him that would make me hate him more than Bush.

I'd just vote for the man who'd beat bush.

ugh! Die Lilberals!!!! democrats are evil! death to them all!

To be quite honest, I don't know enough about Kerry to say whether or not I like or dislike him.

However, I can say that I do very much hate Bush, and the horrible job he's done as President thus far. And so, if I vote, it'll be for Kerry, if nothing more than because I refuse to sponsor that dunce's second term.

I've morphed in my opinion over the last few months. At first, John Kerry was good enough because he wasn't Bush--Kerry wasn't first on my list of Democrats; he was closer to fifth. I wanted Howard Dean, or John Edwards, or even Carol Moseley Braun.

But over the last few months, Kerry has grown on me. He's adopted a lot of the positions I was looking for, and while I still hold his vote on the Iraq War resolution against him, I also realize that while he gave Bush the power to go to war, Bush is the one who exercised it unnecessarily and unwisely. The Iraq war is Bush's fault, and no one else's.

So I'm voting for John Kerry this November. I'll be voting against Bush as well, but I will be taking a proactive instead of negative step in the booth.

I don't care who gets it, as long as it isn't Bush.

However, I do like Kerry, I support him, and I believe he will be a good president.

Several months ago I was prepared to vote for anyone nominated by the Democrats and I voted in the caucus (but not for Kerry). Then, as now, Kerry wasn't my favorite candidate, but I generally like him and his positions and earnestly want him to be the next President and Edwards to be the Vice President. This is not just because I think Bush has done a terrible job (which he most certainly has far beyond my wildest imaginings four years ago), but because I think Kerry can do a lot to fix Bush's messes at home and abroad.

Of course, Kerry, like Bush, is an incredibly rich white man who will predominantly promote the interests of other incredibly rich white men, but at least Kerry has to pretend to care about everyone else if he wants to stay remotely in line with the Democratic platform. The Republican platform has few constraints on preferential treatment of rich people, although if I were a Republican I'd at the very least be pissed at Bush for exploding the deficit.

If I could vote, I would vote for Kerry just to get Bush out of office. However, I think the Democratic party really could have done a lot better. I figure the only reason Kerry won the primaries is because people thought he would be able to beat Bush because he's a veteran, and it had nothing to do with his views for most voters.

I can't vote in this election.

Kerry is too centrist for my tastes, but I will support him because I am loyal to the Party. I voted for Dennis Kucinich in the primaries.

Because Kerry is the Democratic Nomination...

I prefered John Edwards a lot more. I suppose him getting VP isn't SO bad

I was going to vote Nader but the shrub has to go.

In my own tiny universe, the shrub has not done much. He might be good for others but for me? Nothing.

For me: Gas is up, power is up, food is up, insurance up, well everything seems to be up. Income has remained the same but that is because of the CEO is a generous man.

Sometimes I think the Republicans feel that being employeed is your reward.

The Shrub did well on Afghanistan and blew it with Iraq. If the shrub could have looked past his own petty desires, he probably could have become one of histories greatest presidents after 9/11. Most of the world was ready to do just about anything for the US. However, he could not get past "He tried to kill my daddy" and squandered all the opportunities.

Some of my relatives are hard core Baptist republican conservatives and they view him as bad now. These are people that used to vote Republican no matter what.

It will be interesting to hear what Kerry has to say.

About the only thing that might save the Shrub is if the RNC can come up with pictures of Kerry roasting and eating kittens while Edwards sacrificed puppies to satan.

I don't think the corpse of Bin Laden will do much for him now.

Another war won't help either.

It will be interesting in November.

Another war will kill Bush politically and probably make the US a real hotspot for terror and who knows what else. Internal rebellion? Revolution? Another war will damn more than just Bush. Seems that Bush loves to be in hot water though with some of his moves during the years. I'm voting Kerry to get rid of Bush. In the mean time I am working on getting good people to run for President all the way down to School Comissioner.

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries. Pretty much what I expected but please keep responding, prove me wrong. There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.

Eww another thread reminded me of something.

Stem Cell Research.

He is against it so I am against him.

i am not really a liberal, but i tend to vote Democrat so here's my take:

i very much do not like Kerry. he is the worst Democratic presidential candidate in my lifetime, and i am not at all enthusiastic about voting for him. that said, he is still roughly 80 bazillion times better than another 4 years of Bush, so i also have no problem voting for Kerry in the fall...anything to get rid of the Chimp.

Even Nader is better than Bush. As long as that idiot's out of the white house I dont care who wins.

VOTE COMMUNIST!

Kerry will win because he is not Bush. Many people hate Bush and Kerry will have most of his success thanks to that fact. That being said, I like John Kerry as a politician and think he will be a successful (two terms?) president.

ugh! Die Lilberals!!!! democrats are evil! death to them all!

Why do you hate America? :(

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries. Pretty much what I expected but please keep responding, prove me wrong. There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.

Ummm ... pay attention. Most of us are voting for Kerry because we are loyal to the party. Bush doesn't even come into the equation for me. I am a Democrat and I vote for the man who gets the nomination by the Democratic Party.

You Republicans really try so hard to spin things, but fail miserably every time.

Learn to read, ass. Here, let me say it again: Kerry was not my first choice, Kucinich was, but I will vote for Kerry because I am loyal to the Party. It doesn't matter if Bush were in office or not, I will always vote for the Democrat.

You should understand party loyalty .... it's the only reason ya'll have McCain.

:rolleyes:

About the only thing that might save the Shrub is if the RNC can come up with pictures of Kerry roasting and eating kittens while Edwards sacrificed puppies to satan.


...he'd need to also find Bin Ladin and iraqi WMDs to get me to even consider voting for him.

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries. Pretty much what I expected but please keep responding, prove me wrong. There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.
Hold on a second--just because Kerry wasn't our first choice in the primaries doesn't mean he's not our first choice now. Like I said before--I'm voting for Kerry way more than I'm voting against Bush. Kerry's policy proposals are far more appealing to me than Bush's are. I really like Kerry's plan to reform health care by pooling the catastrophic cases into a government pool so individual insurance companies don't take the hit and have to raise premiums on small groups, as long as there's some way to make certain that insurance companies don't continue to rake us over the coals even after the plan goes into effect (assuming it does, that is).

Ummm ... pay attention. Most of us are voting for Kerry because we are loyal to the party. Bush doesn't even come into the equation for me. I am a Democrat and I vote for the man who gets the nomination by the Democratic Party.

You Republicans really try so hard to spin things, but fail miserably every time.

Learn to read, ass. Here, let me say it again: Kerry was not my first choice, Kucinich was, but I will vote for Kerry because I am loyal to the Party. It doesn't matter if Bush were in office or not, I will always vote for the Democrat.

You should understand party loyalty .... it's the only reason ya'll have McCain.

:rolleyes:

*shudder* party loyalty is the biggest problem with American politics right now. be loyal to the ISSUES, perhaps even to a candidate you really like, but for pete's sake please don't just vote Democrat because that's what you did 4 years ago. don't let habit elect our presidents, please, and don't let this partisan crap interfere with picking the best possible leaders.

*shudder* party loyalty is the biggest problem with American politics right now. be loyal to the ISSUES, perhaps even to a candidate you really like, but for pete's sake please don't just vote Democrat because that's what you did 4 years ago. don't let habit elect our presidents, please, and don't let this partisan crap interfere with picking the best possible leaders.
As soon as the Republicans stop doing it, I'll start asking the Democrats to stop doing it.

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries.

That's not the same thing. I am voting for Kerry because I prefer him to Bush. That doesn't mean I would vote for ANYONE over Bush. I wouldn't vote for Lyndon LaRouche over Bush, for instance.

However, it has been my intention from the beginning to vote for WHOEVER became the party nominee, regardless of who they were, because I want someone else in power. It's not about HATING Bush; it's that I think he's had his shot and I want him gone and someone else in. Simple as that.

There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.

There have been several people who have said that they are voting for him because of both of those things. I am one of them.

That's not the same thing. I am voting for Kerry because I prefer him to Bush. That doesn't mean I would vote for ANYONE over Bush. I wouldn't vote for Lyndon LaRouche over Bush, for instance.Whoo! Ain't that the truth. But if I were ever in that position, I think I'd have to leave the country.

No, I don't like Kerry specifically. I don't really like the Democratic party either anymore. But I like them much better than I like the Republicans and Georgie especially, so there you go. When I listened to Bill Clinton's speech at the Convention, I liked the Democrats again. They stood for important things, things I like. Then today I read some of the stuff in their platform. I like Bill Clinton, but I hate that platform. And by extension, I hate the Democratic party, at least as a group. I really like Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and Dennis Kucinich, but I'd be happy to be rid of most of the others. And then, as if their domestic nonsense weren't enough, they all voted for the war (I wasn't even considering that before).

I'm sure Kerry is good for something. Someone please tell me he has strong environmental opinions or something.

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries. Pretty much what I expected but please keep responding, prove me wrong. There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.

Was Bush your first choice in the 2000 primaries? If he wasn't, why did you vote for him?

*shudder* party loyalty is the biggest problem with American politics right now. be loyal to the ISSUES, perhaps even to a candidate you really like, but for pete's sake please don't just vote Democrat because that's what you did 4 years ago. don't let habit elect our presidents, please, and don't let this partisan crap interfere with picking the best possible leaders.


Very strong point.

For a week at school, I went around asking seniors who they were going to vote for, and why. Oh, I also had a rolled up newspaper with me

Everyone who said "because I'm republican/democrat" got slapped up a bit with it :p

"ANd why are you voting for him?"
"He's in my political party"
*smack smack* "BAD! BAD! You should know better. Bad! Now, lets try this again..."

I hate King George II.

But I hate Jean Francois almost as much.

So what does that prove? That our political choices are more narrow, and more rightwing, than ever before?

No sh#t. :headbang:

Ahem, let's first clear up a little misunderstanding... I do not hate George Bush. I am in sharp disagreement with his policies, but I gave up hate a long time ago. It does nothing positive to or for a person, and can only rot someone slowly from the inside out.
There is probably no candidate out there who I agree with 100%, but I feel that Mr. Kerry represents my views far more than does Mr. Bush. But then again, I'm probably among a rare species, an evangelical, if not fundamentalist, Christian who tends to lean liberal on social policy.

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries. Pretty much what I expected but please keep responding, prove me wrong. There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.

Well I think you are stretching things a bit. Voting for anyone? If we were voting between Hitler and The shrub, then the shrub would win.

Also getting him out of office? Of course! I don't agree with his policies. I don't think he has my "interests" at heart so why would I vote for him?

[QUOTE=Unashamed Christians]Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries.[QUOTE]

So what if Kerry isn't our first choice? Why is such a big deal made out of this? Did those Republicans who voted for, say, John McCain or Bush, Sr. (when he ran against Reagan) say "Oh, no, my first choice didn't make it... Now I'm either not going to vote at all or at least not vote for the person who defeated him?"
Furthermore, I don't consider myself loyal to either party. I think there are good and honorable men in both. For example, I would probably vote for someone like former Senator Mark Hatfield or maybe even McCain, depending who was running against them.

Ummm ... pay attention. Most of us are voting for Kerry because we are loyal to the party. Bush doesn't even come into the equation for me. I am a Democrat and I vote for the man who gets the nomination by the Democratic Party.

You Republicans really try so hard to spin things, but fail miserably every time.

Learn to read, ass. Here, let me say it again: Kerry was not my first choice, Kucinich was, but I will vote for Kerry because I am loyal to the Party. It doesn't matter if Bush were in office or not, I will always vote for the Democrat.

You should understand party loyalty .... it's the only reason ya'll have McCain.

:rolleyes:

Methinks it is you who should take the reading lesson - many, if not a majority of the posts so far are "He's not Bush", not "He's a Democrat, so I'll blindly vote for him".

Party loyalty is quite possibly the most frightening thing about American politics. Try finding two or three Democrat issues that you disagree with, and two or three Republican issues you do agree with. It just might open your eyes.

People here are quick here to say they don't like Bush! Most say that Kerry wasn't your first choice! That should tell you something about Kerry! If he wasn't your 1st choice then why are you voting for him?

Though I cannot vote in this election, I am supporting George W. Bush! I know this is a Democrat liberal question thread so before you bash me here is why I am supporting GWB!

1) Kerry hasn't voted for a single Tax Cut! He has always voted for a tax hike. Everyone knows that a tax hike takes money out of the economy.
2) He has voted against every weapon that has come up to vote from the M1 Abrams to the F-16s! He has also voted against funding our military forces fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Money that would go for body armor and equipment to keep our soldiers alive!
3) He has constently flip-floped on many important issues so far in this campaign. Stated he was for something (war in Iraq) then against it (war in Iraq)

In my honest opinion, Senator Lieberman would've made a better choice for the Presidential Nomination! He is well grounded and lets bygones be bygones. He maintained his position on Iraq, something that very few Democrats have done. He knows that what the nation needs is a strong leader. Kerry would put Healthcare infront of winning the war on Terror. Kerry is pushing a National Security Agenda but the problem is that more people trust Bush when it comes to terrorism than Kerry. Many of Bush's numbers are starting to climb on John Kerry! Yea many Kerry still leads big but those are basically few in number now!

If John Kerry wasn't your first choice, please state why he wasn't your first choice. I know that I am coming from the other side but I thought I should state why I'm supporting GWB and JK! Thank you for your time and patients.

My initial theory is holding up pretty well. That you hate Bush so much that you will vote for anyone that has a remote chance of getting Bush out of office. Some of y'all have so much as admitted that Kerry wasn't your first choice in the Democratic primaries. Pretty much what I expected but please keep responding, prove me wrong. There has to be someone out there that will vote for Kerry first because they like his stance on the issues and coming in second that they just want Bush out.

I feel no need to prove you wrong whatsoever. Voting for the lesser of two evils has a long history in this republic. What's wrong with it?

I despise Bush and think he is an incompetent hack. I can't conceive of the damage he would do at home and abroad in another four years - as I couldn't, and most people couldn't, I'd wager, imagine the damage he'd do in his first four. FWIW, I'm a native Texan and thought old Dubya did a pretty good job as a weak governor there in a state dominated by a single powerful democrat. But President Bush is a far cry from Governor Bush. He is harmful, short-sighted and dreadfully incurious. That he'll get close to 50% of the vote I consider a terrifying demonstration of America's virtue and I.Q.

Furthermore, I absolutely frigging love John Kerry. I love that he is nuanced, intelligent and compassionate. I love that he volunteered to go to war. I love his (relative) consistency as a senator. I believe that John Kerry will resurrect the rapidly fading executive practice of being president ofallthe people, and not just those likely to vote for him. I believe that John Kerry can mend the rift between America and the world. I believe that John Kerry is absolutely good and best for the office.

Now, veering off topic, I'm inferring here that you are both a republican and a christian. This is quickly becoming one of the biggest dividers in American society. Something like three-fifths of people who attend church regularly vote republican. This confounds me - especially in the context of George W. Bush's America as compared to the teachings of Christ.

Most evangelical Christians - correct me if I'm wrong - put greater emphasis on Christ's words, on the gospels, than any other part of the bible. They are, by and large, New Testament folk - especially those first four books. So how does Bush stack up next to Christ? How does Bush, for example, stack up next to the Sermon on the Mount?

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. ("They'll get what they deserve," said George when asked about death-row inmates in Texas, "they'll be put to death.")

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (George, you listening? Do you know that word, meek?)

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall know peace.

Nuff sed.

But, actually, not quite nuff sed. I have one more question for you. How did this American/Republican notion of excess, of unimaginable wealth and decadence ever share the same stage with Jesus's teachings? He was the one who said that a camel would sooner make it through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into heaven, right? Right?

And by all means George, go right on ahead "protecting" the institution of marriage. A true Christian defense of marriage would outlaw divorce, for Christ's sake.

I'm Knoxbanedoodle of the Incorporated States of Knoxbanedoodle, searching for endorsements. Thanks.

I've morphed in my opinion over the last few months. At first, John Kerry was good enough because he wasn't Bush--Kerry wasn't first on my list of Democrats; he was closer to fifth. I wanted Howard Dean, or John Edwards, or even Carol Moseley Braun.

But over the last few months, Kerry has grown on me. He's adopted a lot of the positions I was looking for, and while I still hold his vote on the Iraq War resolution against him, I also realize that while he gave Bush the power to go to war, Bush is the one who exercised it unnecessarily and unwisely. The Iraq war is Bush's fault, and no one else's.

So I'm voting for John Kerry this November. I'll be voting against Bush as well, but I will be taking a proactive instead of negative step in the booth.
I had almost completly the opposite thing. At first, I thought that Wesley Clark would be be good. But then, this guy, who neither I nor anyone else seemed to have heard of won the Iowa primary. And I just got a buzz. I didn't know anything about who he was, or what he stood for, but I just got a real special feeling. And the more I found out, and the more the conservatives attacked him, the more I liked him. And although he doesn't seem as revolutionary as I might like, after the Bush regression its gonna be a breath of fresh air.

I just... believe in him. I don't think I could've disliked any democrat in this election year, but... he's a lot better than I dared to hope for.

He's gonna be a good president.

Let me preface the question by stating that I would rather this not turn into a debate between the merits of Bush and Kerry. There are enough threads in this forum to do that in.

I would like to know if you Democrats and liberals are going to vote for Kerry because you like what he stands for, and for what he is saying or are you going to vote for Kerry simply because you hate Bush so much?

Just straight up answers please, no debating, as I said before there are more than enough threads already for that.


This is dumb.

No thread in this forum that talks about Kerry and Bush can NOT develop into a deabate.

That being said....

Kerry stands for nearly the exact opposite of what Bush does.
This alone is enough for me to vote for him.
What pushes me over the line is the lies and deciet from Bush, and the Iraq War.

Bush is rying to bring us to the brink of a Nuclear War against terrorism.
He will nuke the next Muslim Country that attacks US soil.

1) Kerry hasn't voted for a single Tax Cut! He has always voted for a tax hike. Everyone knows that a tax hike takes money out of the economy.
2) He has voted against every weapon that has come up to vote from the M1 Abrams to the F-16s! He has also voted against funding our military forces fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Money that would go for body armor and equipment to keep our soldiers alive!
3) He has constently flip-floped on many important issues so far in this campaign. Stated he was for something (war in Iraq) then against it (war in Iraq)
1) Lie
2) Lie
3) Lie

1) Kerry has consistantly voted for tax cuts. The Republican's problem with this is that most of the tax plans he voted on were based on cuts for poor people, while better off people, the top 5% of wageearners (also known as GWB's base), got higher taxes, or they stayed the same.

2) Kerry voted against military boondoogles, like the B2 spirit bomber program which would've cost a couple of billion dollars for planes that we could never use to their full potential. Often these plans had small ticket items like F16s tagged on as well, items which he supported when they came to the floor on their own or as part of more favourable bills.

3) Ok, flip-flopping, not so much a lie, more like a deliberate misrepresentation. Yes he voted for the war on Iraq. But this was when he (and the rest of the country) believed there were Iraq had WMDs, terrorist training camps and posed a serious threat to regional security. Once these were revealed not to be true, he (*gasp*) changed his mind!! Clearly this "mind-changer" (see how much less catchy that is than flip-flopper?) must be stopped.

*shudder* party loyalty is the biggest problem with American politics right now. be loyal to the ISSUES, perhaps even to a candidate you really like, but for pete's sake please don't just vote Democrat because that's what you did 4 years ago. don't let habit elect our presidents, please, and don't let this partisan crap interfere with picking the best possible leaders.
Given that I am to the left of both parties, its a fairly safe bet that I'll agree with more of the democrat platform than the republican one.

1) Lie
2) Lie
3) Lie

1) Kerry has consistantly voted for tax cuts. The Republican's problem with this is that most of the tax plans he voted on were based on cuts for poor people, while better off people, the top 5% of wageearners (also known as GWB's base), got higher taxes, or they stayed the same.

2) Kerry voted against military boondoogles, like the B2 spirit bomber program which would've cost a couple of billion dollars for planes that we could never use to their full potential. Often these plans had small ticket items like F16s tagged on as well, items which he supported when they came to the floor on their own or as part of more favourable bills.

3) Ok, flip-flopping, not so much a lie, more like a deliberate misrepresentation. Yes he voted for the war on Iraq. But this was when he (and the rest of the country) believed there were Iraq had WMDs, terrorist training camps and posed a serious threat to regional security. Once these were revealed not to be true, he (*gasp*) changed his mind!! Clearly this "mind-changer" (see how much less catchy that is than flip-flopper?) must be stopped.

Simple truth.

Kerry is the person to go for, because he HAS the guts to take on the special interests! Kerry has the better issues, and will solve the economy problems of the United States: the unemployment rate is horrible, the economy is struggling: President Bush has given tax cuts to only the wealthy. He doesn't care about our soldiers and how they must get back to their family. He doesn't care that almost 15,000 Iraqi citizens have been killed, because we've just been bombing around the place...

1) Lie
2) Lie
3) Lie

1) Kerry has consistantly voted for tax cuts. The Republican's problem with this is that most of the tax plans he voted on were based on cuts for poor people, while better off people, the top 5% of wageearners (also known as GWB's base), got higher taxes, or they stayed the same.

2) Kerry voted against military boondoogles, like the B2 spirit bomber program which would've cost a couple of billion dollars for planes that we could never use to their full potential. Often these plans had small ticket items like F16s tagged on as well, items which he supported when they came to the floor on their own or as part of more favourable bills.

3) Ok, flip-flopping, not so much a lie, more like a deliberate misrepresentation. Yes he voted for the war on Iraq. But this was when he (and the rest of the country) believed there were Iraq had WMDs, terrorist training camps and posed a serious threat to regional security. Once these were revealed not to be true, he (*gasp*) changed his mind!! Clearly this "mind-changer" (see how much less catchy that is than flip-flopper?) must be stopped.

You better look at his Senatorial Record then spoffin because from what i'm reading in the Senatorial Record is the exact opposite of what your saying!

You better look at his Senatorial Record then spoffin because from what i'm reading in the Senatorial Record is the exact opposite of what your saying!I'm sorry, I'm calling this bluff. I know that you don't have the goods on this one. Lets see your evidence.

I'm sorry, I'm calling this bluff. I know that you don't have the goods on this one. Lets see your evidence.

Its been stated by both democrats and republicans alike! Want my proof? I'll get back to you tomorrow when I have more time to search the Senate Archives.

Its been stated by both democrats and republicans alike! Want my proof? I'll get back to you tomorrow when I have more time to search the Senate Archives.
"Senate archives" being a euphamism for "Durge Report", naturally.

People here are quick here to say they don't like Bush! Most say that Kerry wasn't your first choice! That should tell you something about Kerry! If he wasn't your 1st choice then why are you voting for him?I'm voting for him because I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Kerry's good--not perfect in my opinion--but good. And in this election, perfect doesn't exist, so I'll go with good over batshit bad (Bush, for those keeping score at home).

Most evangelical Christians - correct me if I'm wrong - put greater emphasis on Christ's words, on the gospels, than any other part of the bible.

Actually, the Bible teaches that "Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness...." (2 Ti 3:16, World English Bible) However, one need not limit oneself to just words of Jesus to understand God's position towards the poor: just go to any online bible, such as Gateway.com, and do a search on the word poor (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?SearchType=AND&language=english&searchpage=0&search=poor&version=NIV). Now compare the number of verses that deal with how to treat the poor with the combined number that conservatives say denounce abortion and homosexuality. How ironic it is, then, which 2 of the 3 get the most attention from conservatives.

I'm voting for him because I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Kerry's good--not perfect in my opinion--but good. And in this election, perfect doesn't exist, so I'll go with good over batshit bad (Bush, for those keeping score at home).
So, which is it? Are you voting for Kerry because,
a. he's not Bush?
b. you like what you think you know about Kerry and his proposals? (What exactly do you know about Kerry? After all, his story changes daily.)
c. he's the lesser evil from the Dims?
d. all of the above? (After all, if Kerry can stand for every option in front of him, so can you.)

Always nice to catch you in a Kerry-esque flip-flop.

Yes, Kerry is truly a strong man fighting against special interests, one who is coincidentally lavished by their gifts and an avid enjoyer of all the parties special interestest groups throw at the DNC. Check it out for yourselves, more money being thrown around there than a billionaire's bank account. You fight them special interest groups Kerry, and enjoy the back rub and the margarita they gave you too. :-P

So, which is it? Are you voting for Kerry because,
a. he's not Bush?
b. you like what you think you know about Kerry and his proposals? (What exactly do you know about Kerry? After all, his story changes daily.)
c. he's the lesser evil from the Dims?
d. all of the above? (After all, if Kerry can stand for every option in front of him, so can you.)

Always nice to catch you in a Kerry-esque flip-flop.It may be tough for a right-winger to understand, but its possible to have more than one thought in your head at once. Incertonia is saying that he agrees with a lot of what Kerry says, and he's the candidate who can beat Bush. How is that difficult to understand?

So, which is it? Are you voting for Kerry because,
a. he's not Bush?
b. you like what you think you know about Kerry and his proposals? (What exactly do you know about Kerry? After all, his story changes daily.)
c. he's the lesser evil from the Dims?
d. all of the above? (After all, if Kerry can stand for every option in front of him, so can you.)

Always nice to catch you in a Kerry-esque flip-flop.
No flipflop here. I'm voting for Kerry for a multitude of reasons--see, I don't live in a simplistic yes/no dichotomy filled world like you and most of the right-wing do.

I'm voting for Kerry because 1) he's the best candidate currently in the race, 2) I like his tax proposals as well as his health care proposals and 3) he's not George Bush. Satisfied?

Yes, Kerry is truly a strong man fighting against special interests, one who is coincidentally lavished by their gifts and an avid enjoyer of all the parties special interestest groups throw at the DNC. Check it out for yourselves, more money being thrown around there than a billionaire's bank account. You fight them special interest groups Kerry, and enjoy the back rub and the margarita they gave you too. :-P
The sarcasm is ladled on pretty thick... but I can't see any evidence of a point to this post, or anything to back up what he's saying...

BTW--thanks for getting my back there, Spoffin.

No flipflop here. I'm voting for Kerry for a multitude of reasons--see, I don't live in a simplistic yes/no dichotomy filled world like you and most of the right-wing do.
Funny. "Nuance"...what a concept. Only in the left, having the ability to take every side of an issue is considered a virtue. The rest of the world calls it "opportunism." And here's a little presentation (http://media1.stream2you.com/rnc/072304v2.wmv) that expounds on that aspect. (Warning: long video, and likely to infuriate you Kerry lovers.)

I'm voting for Kerry because 1) he's the best candidate currently in the race,Hardly...he's the only one left from the Left. No, wait, Ralph is still around, isn't he? But calling the most liberal senator "the best" is quite a stretch, unless you are a part of the faction that wants a more pervasive government presence in everyone's life.

2) I like his tax proposals as well as his health care proposalsSo, you're all for punishing the achievers. Given how many more of the bottom 50% of wage earners have been removed from the taxpaying rolls after the three Bush tax cuts (http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in01ts.xls), Kerry's enormous health care "proposal" (Hillary-care Reprise?) will need to be paid for by someone...that's right, those in the top 50% who are actually carrying 96% of the tax burden. A massive tax increase on the top 50%, and increased prices on everything for everyone, or do you actually believe that producers in general won't pass the added cost from higher taxes to those who buy the products? Now that's economic genius on the order of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

and 3) he's not George Bush. Satisfied?
Actually, that's about the only one that I believe you can say with a straight face.

I feel no need to prove you wrong whatsoever. Voting for the lesser of two evils has a long history in this republic. What's wrong with it?

I despise Bush and think he is an incompetent hack. I can't conceive of the damage he would do at home and abroad in another four years - as I couldn't, and most people couldn't, I'd wager, imagine the damage he'd do in his first four. FWIW, I'm a native Texan and thought old Dubya did a pretty good job as a weak governor there in a state dominated by a single powerful democrat. But President Bush is a far cry from Governor Bush. He is harmful, short-sighted and dreadfully incurious. That he'll get close to 50% of the vote I consider a terrifying demonstration of America's virtue and I.Q.

Furthermore, I absolutely frigging love John Kerry. I love that he is nuanced, intelligent and compassionate. I love that he volunteered to go to war. I love his (relative) consistency as a senator. I believe that John Kerry will resurrect the rapidly fading executive practice of being president ofallthe people, and not just those likely to vote for him. I believe that John Kerry can mend the rift between America and the world. I believe that John Kerry is absolutely good and best for the office.

Now, veering off topic, I'm inferring here that you are both a republican and a christian. This is quickly becoming one of the biggest dividers in American society. Something like three-fifths of people who attend church regularly vote republican. This confounds me - especially in the context of George W. Bush's America as compared to the teachings of Christ.

Most evangelical Christians - correct me if I'm wrong - put greater emphasis on Christ's words, on the gospels, than any other part of the bible. They are, by and large, New Testament folk - especially those first four books. So how does Bush stack up next to Christ? How does Bush, for example, stack up next to the Sermon on the Mount?

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. ("They'll get what they deserve," said George when asked about death-row inmates in Texas, "they'll be put to death.")

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (George, you listening? Do you know that word, meek?)

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall know peace.

Nuff sed.

But, actually, not quite nuff sed. I have one more question for you. How did this American/Republican notion of excess, of unimaginable wealth and decadence ever share the same stage with Jesus's teachings? He was the one who said that a camel would sooner make it through the eye of a needle than a rich man get into heaven, right? Right?

And by all means George, go right on ahead "protecting" the institution of marriage. A true Christian defense of marriage would outlaw divorce, for Christ's sake.

I'm Knoxbanedoodle of the Incorporated States of Knoxbanedoodle, searching for endorsements. Thanks.
It appears that you have responded in a very clear and straightforward manner and have posed some interesting conceptual issues. It shall be interesting to hear some of the responses. Good post.

You better look at his Senatorial Record then spoffin because from what i'm reading in the Senatorial Record is the exact opposite of what your saying!
From what I understood, this thread was entitled....A question for Democrats and Liberals in general...

Are you switching over from the Republicans or did you want to weasel into this thread?

I'm sorry, I'm calling this bluff. I know that you don't have the goods on this one. Lets see your evidence.
It can be a good idea to call someone's bluff, as it can avoid so much rhetoric. Facts are a great thing to possess in an argument and some people try so hard to make their opinions fact, and try as they may, they just end up as opinions, and oftens times they get refuted because they have no basis in fact.

So, which is it? Are you voting for Kerry because,
a. he's not Bush?
b. you like what you think you know about Kerry and his proposals? (What exactly do you know about Kerry? After all, his story changes daily.)
c. he's the lesser evil from the Dims?
d. all of the above? (After all, if Kerry can stand for every option in front of him, so can you.)

Always nice to catch you in a Kerry-esque flip-flop.

Funny how the conservative crowd loves to say Kerry flip flops on the issues. What would they call these statements by Bush?

On the number 1 terrorist in the world...

FLIP: "There's an old poster out West that says, `Wanted: Dead or Alive.' . . . The most important thing is to find Osama bin Laden. It's our Number One priority. We will not rest until we have found him." (Sept. 13 and 16, 2001.)

FLOP: In reference to Osama bin Laden..."I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important." (March 13, 2002.)

On Homeland Security...

FLIP: Former press secretary Ari Fleischer says Bush told Congress, "There does not need to be a Cabinet-level Office of Homeland Security." (White House press briefing, Oct. 24, 2001.)

FLOP: "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America." (June 6, 2002.)

And lets of course not forget during his campaign to be elected president he stated he was against nation building, and now we are rebuilding Iraq.

There are plenty more Bush Flip Flops, this site lists several in detail.

http://wampum.wabanaki.net/archives/000826.html

Oh, and I plan to vote for Kerry. Though I don't agree with him on every issue, he supports more issues that I agree with than Bush.

Having seen Kerry in action for many years as Senator of my homestate Massachusetts, he is by far the better candidate. He was my first choice. I can see how some are unsure, as he is not coming across so well during this campaign. He has very stong convictions, that for whatever reason, are being downplayed. I don't hate Bush..to strong a word. He has made numerous mistakes as President, and if reelected will continue to do so.

Funny. "Nuance"...what a concept. Only in the left, having the ability to take every side of an issue is considered a virtue. The rest of the world calls it "opportunism." And here's a little presentation (http://media1.stream2you.com/rnc/072304v2.wmv) that expounds on that aspect. (Warning: long video, and likely to infuriate you Kerry lovers.)

Yes--nuance. The rest of the world understands that we don't live in a simple yes/no world. Too bad you don't--you might actually start to understand some of the challenges we face as human beings.

Hardly...he's the only one left from the Left. No, wait, Ralph is still around, isn't he? But calling the most liberal senator "the best" is quite a stretch, unless you are a part of the faction that wants a more pervasive government presence in everyone's life.

He's the best person in the race right now, including all the minor party candidates. He wasn't my first choice, but he's the best of the lot, no question.

So, you're all for punishing the achievers. Given how many more of the bottom 50% of wage earners have been removed from the taxpaying rolls after the three Bush tax cuts (http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in01ts.xls), Kerry's enormous health care "proposal" (Hillary-care Reprise?) will need to be paid for by someone...that's right, those in the top 50% who are actually carrying 96% of the tax burden. A massive tax increase on the top 50%, and increased prices on everything for everyone, or do you actually believe that producers in general won't pass the added cost from higher taxes to those who buy the products? Now that's economic genius on the order of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

I'm going to give you the same lesson in bullshit statistics I gave someone else earlier tonight. Do you know how much you have to earn to fall into that top 50% of wage earners? Try around $26,000 a year. At that number, it's not hard to understand why the top 50% pay 96% of the income taxes every year. And I'm not even going to get into payroll taxes, because that's a whole 'nother way the folks at the bottom get fucked.

The people who are making out like bandits in this deal, though, are the top 2%, with the top 10% following closely behind. And they can afford it. And while it's possible a little of their tax bill will be passed along, the fact is that most of it won't--why? Because there's only so much blood you can squeeze from the consumer class. If they raise their prices too high to make up for their miniscule loss of a tax cut, they'll lose business, because someone will undercut them. So they'll make a fraction less and they'll bitch a lot, but in the end, the economy will improve and they'll still be superrich.

Actually, that's about the only one that I believe you can say with a straight face.
I say every single one of them with a straight face, and what's more important--I'm right and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it.

im voting for him because i hate bush.

I am voting for Kerry for a few reasons:

1. I fucking hate George W. Bush with a passion. There. I said it. I despise the fucker. He doesn't know what he's doing, and he seems to think it's OK to get the entire rest of the world pissed off at us when he really didn't need to, even to invade Iraq.

2. He doesn't support that bullshit amendment banning gay marriage. I am heterosexual myself, but come on - an amendment banning gay marriage? That's what he's wasting his breath on when we have two countries to rebuild, jobs to create, and half the world down our throats? He should work on amends with the world, not amendments to the Constitution.

3. He's bound to have better Cabinet appointments than John Fucking Ashcroft. He lost a Senate race to a dead guy and now all of a sudden he's the damn Attorney General? Only Dubya would do something like that...oh well; thank God he has no chance of ever becoming President.

4. He actually sounds like he can make a dent in the health care situation in the U.S. Some people's health care plans might look like hocus-pocus (Clinton's, for example) but at least Kerry seems to have some direction.

Unfortunately, I predict Bush as the winner by two dozen electoral votes.

Despite having recourse to numerous theasaurises, both electronic and hard copy, not once have I ever seen nuance described as a synonom for opportunistic, I am convinced that this is because it isnt.

I'm going to resist the notion that this is proof that I have routinely overestimated the intelligence of the average Republican. My nuanced view is that this is not indicative of all Republicans abilities to reason, and that despite this comment being made by a republican, most republicans are not that.........unreasoned in thier views. You see although I could choose opportunistically to paint all republicans with the brush this one republican left lying about, I prefer to take a more reasonable and nuanced approach.

Alright, being a liberal, and a democrat I must say this... I hated Bush even before he was president, and owning the Texas Rangers.

Then with the way he handled the 2000 election, I hated him even more. It became along the lines of I hope he chokes and dies... (So close too!)

Then came 9/11 and I was like OMG! We're screwed! Look who's in office! Sure enough... we are going after Iraq... and not Saudi Arabia... the nation who funds terrorism all over the world. But wait, we're not done... the Lone Star, had to go ahead and alienate our allies! Who basically gave us a blank check! So, now Jack n' Box has commericals arguing with Frenchmen on TV over French Fries, and I wanna burn and kill things when I see it. Oui! or No! Which is it Monsieur Box!

After all that, now we've even got some real conservative jerks pissed off and angry at Germany. (My favorite nation in the world if not for my own.) The France can never win wars jokes never end after the latest events (Hey if you lost as many as France did after WWI and WWII would you wanna just march off to any war? I think not unless really needed.)

So, all of these events have gone by... now here we are.... Indecision 2004. The great election of our times... and my first I might add. John Edwards... a guy that makes me think JFK... the man who has a message, and doesn't stray from it. Howard Dean... and man committed to what he stands, and no matter what you say, that scream he gave was awesome... it was one step closer to a politician being human, rather than a boring dry old man really needing to get outside and talk to people more often.

Regardless... then John Kerry takes it all and I'm dissappointed... I say Kerry? What? The guy who looks like the living dead?... The guy the seems as if he came right out of resident evil? WHY!? No good impression upon me at all... so naturally he wins and then I hate him. But remember before... I hate Kerry... but based on those other statements earlier I hate hate hate hate hate and maybe some more, Bush... Then Kerry added Edwards to the ticket and now we can play ball... So Kerry and I are now Cordial... and I vote for him, because it's a vote against Bush, and maybe a chance to see Edwards in the White House in the future... and my last question to all of you conservatives? Why couldn't you have voted McCain in 2000??? I might have actually liked that guy... he had spirit for an old guy.

And well... for all those who didn't want to read... Yes only for vote out Bush... clearly something is wrong if that is the reason why so many people are voting the way they are... Democrats and Republicans alike... I have neighbors who are Republicans and hate Bush... so why does he even deserve a second term?... I sure won't help him... so I vote clearly against Bush, and for a future Edwards. :D

From what I understood, this thread was entitled....A question for Democrats and Liberals in general...

Are you switching over from the Republicans or did you want to weasel into this thread?

No, but I just thought I might give some some people on here a reason to THINK!

If Kerry wasn't your first choice, then why wasn't he your first choice? That is all I want to know and so far, I haven't heard a single answer on here! Polls clearly show that Most of Kerry's supports hate Bush. They don't support Kerry, they support getting Bush out of office.

Its been stated by both democrats and republicans alike! Want my proof? I'll get back to you tomorrow when I have more time to search the Senate Archives.
Bump this.

Polls clearly show that Most of Kerry's supports hate Bush. They don't support Kerry, they support getting Bush out of office.
They hate Bush, so that means they don't support Kerry? If I can get you to come away with just one thing from this, I'd like you to understand that people can do two things at once, in this case they can simultaneously hate Bush and support Kerry. The only person I've seen here who says specifically that they are voting for Kerry just because they hate Bush is Bottle.

No, but I just thought I might give some some people on here a reason to THINK!

If Kerry wasn't your first choice, then why wasn't he your first choice? That is all I want to know and so far, I haven't heard a single answer on here! Polls clearly show that Most of Kerry's supports hate Bush. They don't support Kerry, they support getting Bush out of office.
most people wanted edwards, the vice prsaident vandidate

No, but I just thought I might give some some people on here a reason to THINK!

If Kerry wasn't your first choice, then why wasn't he your first choice? That is all I want to know and so far, I haven't heard a single answer on here! Polls clearly show that Most of Kerry's supports hate Bush. They don't support Kerry, they support getting Bush out of office.

Just because Kerry isn't my first choice doesn't mean that I default to Bush. The fact is that, in this race, there really are no unqualified "good" choices, which is why it's in such turmoil. Bush hasn't convinced a majority of people that he has the vision to lead this country where it needs to go and Kerry hasn't convinced a majority of people of much of anything other than he is a Viet Nam veteran. Hence, you have a close race with neither candidate, as of yet, distinguishing themselves and providing a clear choice. Right now, it's a "lesser of two evils" election. This may change over the next couple of months, but simply because you are voting Kerry doesn't mean that you hate Bush or vice versa.

The sarcasm is ladled on pretty thick... but I can't see any evidence of a point to this post, or anything to back up what he's saying...

Ignore it all you want, just look at all the sponsors of the DNC, Unions even throw around big bucks there. Who do you think pays for all the parties and events at the DNC? It's plain and simple. Sorry everyone, but Kerry is a smart man... and he'll do what it takes to convince people to vote for him... the following through part ain't a comin'.

most people wanted edwards, the vice prsaident vandidate
Misspellings aside, most people didn't want Edwards. He had a good showing, but Kerry showed better. That's how he won the nomination, Chess Squares - more votes.

Speaking as a non-liberal non-democrat who will be voting for Kerry, let me just add that I don't hate Bush. My problem is with the guys behind Bush (Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft among others) who are steadily eroding the domestic and foreign policies that made this country strong and safe. Bush isn't a bad leader, he isn't a bad man, and he's surely not stupid. He is, however, advised poorly ... and he showed poor judgement in his selection of advisors.

I'll feel a lot more confident about Kerry if he announces his Cabinet nominees before the election. It's not just the Man, it's the Team.

No, but I just thought I might give some some people on here a reason to THINK!

If Kerry wasn't your first choice, then why wasn't he your first choice? That is all I want to know and so far, I haven't heard a single answer on here! Polls clearly show that Most of Kerry's supports hate Bush. They don't support Kerry, they support getting Bush out of office.
And I suppose somehow that you believe that the liberals/democrats on this thread are unable to think for themselves, and that they need your help?

If people do not want to support Bush, due to his flawed policies, then they only have two other options. The most obvious would be the Democrat and the other would be the independent Nader. So rather than not vote at all, it appears that most anti Bush votes will go to Kerry by default. It truly is a simple concept, and a logical one?

Its been stated by both democrats and republicans alike! Want my proof? I'll get back to you tomorrow when I have more time to search the Senate Archives.

So... how's that going?

I am voting for Bush because he has done more to expose liberals and democrats as the enemies of America than any other man except Usama bin Laden. The left unites behind the enemies of America against the President of the U.S.

Ignore it all you want, just look at all the sponsors of the DNC, Unions even throw around big bucks there. Who do you think pays for all the parties and events at the DNC? It's plain and simple. Sorry everyone, but Kerry is a smart man... and he'll do what it takes to convince people to vote for him... the following through part ain't a comin'.
See, now thats actually a structured point.

In response to this, I'll point out that when you rank the members of the senate in order of most corporate money taken in, Kerry comes 98 out of 100. Only two people took less corporate sponsorship than him. Now, I don't know the stats for this election yet, but I believe that they'll bear out a similar relationship.

Let me preface the question by stating that I would rather this not turn into a debate between the merits of Bush and Kerry. There are enough threads in this forum to do that in.

I would like to know if you Democrats and liberals are going to vote for Kerry because you like what he stands for, and for what he is saying or are you going to vote for Kerry simply because you hate Bush so much?

Just straight up answers please, no debating, as I said before there are more than enough threads already for that.

A combination of the fact that I am confident that Kerry can do better and that I really have no love for Bush. My problem with Bush pretty much stems to the fact that he kept very few of his promises from his campaign other than the tax cuts, he broke some of those promises, and he started a vendetta war. But the problem I have isn't just with Bush, to me, public enemy number one in the Bush White House is John Ashcroft because he is stomping all over the constitution and my rights with his USA PATRIOT Act and if he gets his way with "Patriot II" it'll be even worse. And the recent republican crusade for a gay marrage ban has pretty much soured me from the republican party as a whole, you don't write discrimination into the constitution, I mean what next? Are they gonna want to make black people 3/5 of a person again? Kerry isn't perfect by any means, but I'd much rather give him a chance, see what he has to offer, than have Bush as the president for another 4 years since I know he doesn't have much to offer and I know he lied to my face in his last campaign.

I think you are wrong, Here isa link to another thread, on the first page is a discussion of my reasons for voting for Kerry.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=344300

I am voting for Bush because he has done more to expose liberals and democrats as the enemies of America than any other man except Usama bin Laden. The left unites behind the enemies of America against the President of the U.S.

So you are voting for Bush because you like the way he has polorized the nation? :rolleyes:

See, now thats actually a structured point.

In response to this, I'll point out that when you rank the members of the senate in order of most corporate money taken in, Kerry comes 98 out of 100. Only two people took less corporate sponsorship than him. Now, I don't know the stats for this election yet, but I believe that they'll bear out a similar relationship.

Does it really matter anyway? We know Bush takes corperate sponsorship, and we know that Cheney has held secret meetings with energy companies and we know that hsi tax breaks have helped big buisness. So in short, we know Bush is in bed with corperate america as he has been his whole life. Kerry migh take a little bit of corporate sponsorship, but if you look into it, he doesn't seek it out like bush does. The big money contributor that Kerry has in hollywood, not corporations.

I am voting for Bush because he has done more to expose liberals and democrats as the enemies of America than any other man except Usama bin Laden. The left unites behind the enemies of America against the President of the U.S.

So how is Bush's hunt for Osama going anyway? I'm surprised anyone remembers that name anymore, what with all the focus on that one country that had nothing to do with 9/11....

Do you even know where Bush stands on any issues? Or is THE most important issue to you "Who can most expose the evil liberals!"

I'm a liberal but I dislike both Kerry and Bush

Never said they didn't think! However, the polls, and this is many polls, the majority of Kerry's supporters are those that DON'T SUPPORT HIM! Most of his supports only support him to GET BUSH OUT! Kerry isn't popular. Only a small percentage FULLY SUPPORT HIM!

I do know where Bush stands on the Issues. Do you know where Kerry stands on the ISSUES? Do you know that he constantly changes his views on the Issues? He's for womens rights but voted AGAINST the Lacy Peterson act! He wants a stronger military with proper funding but he voted against a bill that would fund our troops. He's pro-choice but he believes that Life begins at conception. He was FOR the Iraq War now he says hes against it but yet will keep our troops there. He's for gay marraige but yet he says that we should get back to FAMILY VALUES! "Honor thy MOTHER and thy FATHER" straight from his speech!

People, after viewing his speech last night, Kerry Concerns me. He is NOT fit to lead. Every major CO he has served under isn't supporting him. The military isn't supporting him. Those people there behind him from the swift boats, were a minority. Most of the people he was with over there with him, DON'T SUPPORT HIM!

Anybody see the Daily Show last night? John Kerry: He's Not George W. Bush

Never said they didn't think! However, the polls, and this is many polls, the majority of Kerry's supporters are those that DON'T SUPPORT HIM! Most of his supports only support him to GET BUSH OUT! Kerry isn't popular. Only a small percentage FULLY SUPPORT HIM!


Wow--no matter how many times people on this board say they fully support John Kerry, you just don't want to hear it. And besides, what does it matter whether they fully or partially support Kerry or not? The only thing that matters is who they vote for in November.

I do know where Bush stands on the Issues. Do you know where Kerry stands on the ISSUES? Do you know that he constantly changes his views on the Issues? He's for womens rights but voted AGAINST the Lacy Peterson act! He wants a stronger military with proper funding but he voted against a bill that would fund our troops. He's pro-choice but he believes that Life begins at conception. He was FOR the Iraq War now he says hes against it but yet will keep our troops there. He's for gay marraige but yet he says that we should get back to FAMILY VALUES! "Honor thy MOTHER and thy FATHER" straight from his speech!He voted against the Laci Peterson bill because it would essentially give full personhood to a fetus and it was unnecessary because that type of violence is already covered in the law. When you say "the troops" I assume you're talking about the $87 billion that the Republicans voted against first because they felt it was more important to protect tax cuts for the wealthy than to fund the troops in the field. As far as the Iraq war is concerned, he voted to authorize force as a last result and Bush decided it was the first option. And he has never supported gay marriage and has said so more than once. I won't get into how moronic I think your position on it is, since that's not the focus of the debate here.

People, after viewing his speech last night, Kerry Concerns me. He is NOT fit to lead. Every major CO he has served under isn't supporting him. The military isn't supporting him. Those people there behind him from the swift boats, were a minority. Most of the people he was with over there with him, DON'T SUPPORT HIM!You really need to lay off the right-wing crack pipe some dearie.

Does the term brain washed mean anything to you FD?

I hate Bush, I hate Kerry, I like Nader. Nader will never win, so I chose Kerry. Even someone like him is better than Bush.

Does the term brain washed mean anything to you FD?

Ok I guess people don't read poll numbers. Not my fault that POLL NUMBERS are starting this. Did I say people are don't? No so STOP putting words into my posts. I said that POLL NUMBERS state that most of Kerry's supporters AREN'T for him! Most of his supporters are supporting him because they HATE BUSH!

That is all I said!

Ok I guess people don't read poll numbers. Not my fault that POLL NUMBERS are starting this. Did I say people are don't? No so STOP putting words into my posts. I said that POLL NUMBERS state that most of Kerry's supporters AREN'T for him! Most of his supporters are supporting him because they HATE BUSH!

That is all I said!So quote a poll. Or are you talking about the statistically ridiculous poll numbers found here on Nationstates?

I'm throwing my vote away this year and voting for whomever the green or libertarian parties can manage to get on the ballot, or writing in a vote. I'm not real happy with either bush or the johns, and I figure if enough people vote on a third party or even a fourth party maybe we'll see some real change to the two big parties. There are 40 or 50 nationally available parties to choose from, One or more of them probably fits an individual's beliefs and standards more closely than either the republican or democratic parties......... The veterans party of america is looking awfully good to me...........

So quote a poll. Or are you talking about the statistically ridiculous poll numbers found here on Nationstates?

No actually, I know how these polls go!

I'm actually talking about Nationwide polls here in the USA!

I hate Bush, I hate Kerry, I like Nader. Nader will never win, so I chose Kerry. Even someone like him is better than Bush.

Good man.

Nader rocks. I wish he had a chance. Kerry seems like very weak competition. Bush has horrible policies and a quite possibly even worse cabinet. I wish Dean or Edwards was the main candidate. But Edwards being the vice president is still really good. Especially as it'd help his political career and get him further into being the president one day.

So in November I'll be torn. Nader or Kerry. My state is dominated by Republicans lately, so I don't think it would matter much since Bush would prolly win the state anyway. I'd like to say I'd wait to see how it's shaping up to finally decide. Like who's got an early lead in the votes when I'm at the booth. But I dunno...

As long as the Democrats can retake the House and Senate, then all should be good.... The House that Ruth built.

(The section at the end was to bring humor to the post. Kthx.)

Does it really matter? Lets just hope someone beats the monkey.

Well as it stands, the Dems have no hope in the House. That will remain republican. Its virtually impossible for them to retake it! The Senate is a toss up right now. No one knows who will have control of the Senate.

Well as it stands, the Dems have no hope in the House. That will remain republican. Its virtually impossible for them to retake it! The Senate is a toss up right now. No one knows who will have control of the Senate.

Doesn't really matter actually in the house, if they get within 3 or so they're good cause the republicans in the house aren't exactly what you would call rock solid in their alliance.

Doesn't really matter actually in the house, if they get within 3 or so they're good cause the republicans in the house aren't exactly what you would call rock solid in their alliance.

From what I'm seeing, that isn't going to happen either. The House will remain solidly Republican. I don't think they'll pickup the necessary 20 seats (i think) to do that!

I dunno about that, the republicans running for re-election here in ohio are beginning to face some stiff competition for the first time in a long while. Even if the Dems don't take back the houses, it will be an eye-opener for the republicans that they aren't as well loved as some of them seem to think.

No actually, I know how these polls go!

I'm actually talking about Nationwide polls here in the USA!Then cite one for crying out loud or quit talking out of your ass.

I dunno about that, the republicans running for re-election here in ohio are beginning to face some stiff competition for the first time in a long while. Even if the Dems don't take back the houses, it will be an eye-opener for the republicans that they aren't as well loved as some of them seem to think.

I don't know about that! All I do know is that Spectre is in a tight race for senate here. He only won the Senate primary by 1500 votes or something like that but I think he'll win again. As for Ohio, I haven't been following local Ohio elections so I won't comment.

Yeah see, ohio has a bunch of representatives (28 if I'm not mistaken), and we are a traditionally republican state (we only have like 2 or 3 democratic reps.) and right now ohio is getting hit hard by the whole jobs getting shipped overseas thing cause there are a lot of automotive plants and steel plants and machine shops that have been shutting down recently cause the companies are outsourcing jobs, so the dems have a good shot. that fact might hurt bush too, no republican has ever won the white house without ohio.

Its been stated by both democrats and republicans alike! Want my proof? I'll get back to you tomorrow when I have more time to search the Senate Archives.

...still waiting...

...still waiting...
Yeah, I think its pretty clear now (and indeed, it was from the start) that he was O'Reil-lying

Yeah, I think its pretty clear now (and indeed, it was from the start) that he was O'Reil-lying

I'M A SHE! and as for the poll proof, I am doing like 30 different things at once.

I'M A SHE! and as for the poll proof, I am doing like 30 different things at once.

We can wait... :) and that one was about Kerry's record.