NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20040727-1317-un-sudan.html
This article shows just how unwilling the Security Concil is to act. China, Russia, and Pakistan want more time alloted for Sudan to comply, and they got that in the revised draft. More time? The Khartoum regime had 14 months to disarm the militias, or at least attempt to. They haven't, and they must face the consequences. However, the UN's unwillingness to act just shows how increasingly irrelevant they're becoming. In a few decades, our kids will know of the UN through history text books as a defunct organization that became too weak to act. That's where the UN is heading.

bump

In a few decades, our kids will know of the UN through history text books as a defunct organization that became too weak to act. That's where the UN is heading.

I hope so!

I hope so!
So am I. It's time to take the world's garbage out.

They are waiting for the United States to just go do it, so then they have another thing to critic us about.

They are waiting for the United States to just go do it, so then they have another thing to critic us about.
Exactly. If the Sudanese government was killing each of the seven million inhabitants in Khartoum, it'd be hell to pay if the US decided to go in Sudan, with or without UN approval.

bump

Why don't you guys like the UN? I don't like them because they're brutal killers, blatantly corrupt and power-hungry, pro-terrorism, etc.

I don't like them because it takes them forever and a day to take action, then when someone does...Like we did in Kosovo and Iraq, they flip out.

Why don't you guys like the UN? I don't like them because they're brutal killers, blatantly corrupt and power-hungry, pro-terrorism, etc.
I don't like them because they are far too ineffective at anything. They didn't stop Rwanda from happening. They didn't stop our invasion of Iraq from happening. And from the looks of it, they are impotent at stopping this new crisis.

I don't like them because they are far too ineffective at anything. They didn't stop Rwanda from happening. They didn't stop our invasion of Iraq from happening. And from the looks of it, they are impotent at stopping this new crisis.

Hell, they CAUSED Rwanda to happen. They disarmed all the civilians (the ones that the genocide was committed against) just prior to the genocide, and even helped the killers escape to refugee camps, or just stood idly by while the bloodshed was taking place.

Hell, they CAUSED Rwanda to happen. They disarmed all the civilians (the ones that the genocide was committed against) just prior to the genocide, and even helped the killers escape to refugee camps, or just stood idly by while the bloodshed was taking place.
Exactly. Another miserable preformance is in the Congo last year. They've been sending peacekeepers to the especially war-torn province of Bunia, but what happened? They were armed, but were instructed only to fire at rebels when fired upon, even if some shooting of innocent civilians was happening in front of a peacekeeper. Even when they were fired upon, they were hesitant to fire, for fear of starting an international scandal. It took a battalion of French troops to bail them out.

Exactly. Another miserable preformance is in the Congo last year. They've been sending peacekeepers to the especially war-torn province of Bunia, but what happened? They were armed, but were instructed only to fire at rebels when fired upon, even if some shooting of innocent civilians was happening in front of a peacekeeper. Even when they were fired upon, they were hesitant to fire, for fear of starting an international scandal. It took a battalion of French troops to bail them out.

Ugh. Say, have you ever heard of Katanga (a province of the Congo)? In the early 1960s, pro-US anti-communist Moise Tshombe, the President of Katanga, disillusioned with the increasingly pro-Soviet government, attempted to secede from the Congo. Congolese premier Patrice Lumumba called in the UN. The UN bombed the living hell out of Katanga, destroyed hospitals, ambulances, and schools, raped women, bayoneted children, etc. For details, read Rebels, Mercenaries, and Dividends: The Katanga Story (written by a reporter who witnessed it first-hand); 46 Angry Men (an article written by 46 civilian doctors who saw the whole thing); and Who Killed the Congo?

The UN is also the main reason we lost the Korean War (ask Korean War vets for details; in the meantime, I'll try to dig up some links); they're openly friendly toward terrorist Yasser Arafat and bloodyhanded murderers like Mikhail Gorbachev and Nelson Mandela; and (I swear, I am NOT making this up), in the late 70's, during the genocide in Cambodia, Cambodia's foreign minister said, "We have cleansed our cities," and the UN applauded him. Peace keepers? Yeah, right. And let's not forget their atrocities in Somalia, Kosovo, etc...

The UN is also the main reason we lost the Korean War (ask Korean War vets for details; in the meantime, I'll try to dig up some links); they're openly friendly toward terrorist Yasser Arafat and bloodyhanded murderers like Mikhail Gorbachev and Nelson Mandela; and (I swear, I am NOT making this up), in the late 70's, during the genocide in Cambodia, Cambodia's foreign minister said, "We have cleansed our cities," and the UN applauded him. Peace keepers? Yeah, right. And let's not forget their atrocities in Somalia, Kosovo, etc...

I find that hard to believe, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. China and, unfortunatly, the US and Europe, supported the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia simply because the Vietnamese occupational government was Soviet backed. We should've been quite ashamed of all of ourselves, but especially the UN. After all, the debacle in Cambodia is, in part, the reason why the ROC lost its seat in the Security Concil to China.

I don't like them because they are far too ineffective at anything. They didn't stop Rwanda from happening. They didn't stop our invasion of Iraq from happening. And from the looks of it, they are impotent at stopping this new crisis.
It's hardly a new crisis. As it has been going on for about 20 years.

Haven't heard of Sudan in a while.

I don't like them because it takes them forever and a day to take action, then when someone does...Like we did in Kosovo and Iraq, they flip out.
As far as I know the Kosovo war was a UN sanctioned one.

It's hardly a new crisis. As it has been going on for about 20 years.
You might be thinking of the civil war in the South. I'm sure Khartoum was always afraid of the Western portion of their country, but only a year ago did Darfurians abandon their villages.

I find that hard to believe, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. China and, unfortunatly, the US and Europe, supported the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia simply because the Vietnamese occupational government was Soviet backed. We should've been quite ashamed of all of ourselves, but especially the UN. After all, the debacle in Cambodia is, in part, the reason why the ROC lost its seat in the Security Concil to China.

The U.S. wasn't really pro-Khmer Rouge. Our politicians were just sick to death of our involvement in Southeast Asia and wanted to wash their hands of it.

It's hardly a new crisis. As it has been going on for about 20 years.

The whole situation isn't new...it's the volume of new killings and rapes that is making this a crisis. It is escalating rapidly, and if the Janjawid milita sees that the international community is loathe to act, they'll take it as carte blanche to continue the terror.

As far as I know the Kosovo war was a UN sanctioned one.


It wasn't. The Serbs remind you of that fact every time they see you there. We tried but Russia was going to veto, so NATO went in on its own.

It wasn't. The Serbs remind you of that fact every time they see you there. We tried but Russia was going to veto, so NATO went in on its own.
Oh yeah. My mistake.

It wasn't. The Serbs remind you of that fact every time they see you there. We tried but Russia was going to veto, so NATO went in on its own.
So why did Russia send a contingent in? I was too young when this happened, so I barely remember it.

The U.S. wasn't really pro-Khmer Rouge. Our politicians were just sick to death of our involvement in Southeast Asia and wanted to wash their hands of it.
That was partly it. The other part was that the Vietnamese fought the Khmer Rouge when they launched an unsucessful invasion on South Vietnam, and pushed them out of Phnom Penh. Obviously, the US would look like a hypocrite if they supported the Vietnamese government, so they walked a fine line.

So why did Russia send a contingent in? I was too young when this happened, so I barely remember it.

What, are you like 10? It was 5 years ago...1999. The Russians, being staunch allies of the Serbs, see WWI and how it started, entered to protect the Serbs from being overrun completely.

So why did Russia send a contingent in? I was too young when this happened, so I barely remember it.
Had something to do with them beeing Slavs. So the Serb miltias were less likely to attack them while disarming them. If I recall correctly. Not sure though.

What, are you like 10? It was 5 years ago...1999. The Russians, being staunch allies of the Serbs, see WWI and how it started, entered to protect the Serbs from being overrun completely.
I was ten then, I'm fifteen now. However, I didn't have a big interest in politics then. Anyhow, I think the Russiains are a bit paranoid to assume that. They may have been an ally of Serbia, but they were in a different era. They needed to reassess their alliances, and see if these alliances worked in their interests.

I was ten then, I'm fifteen now. However, I didn't have a big interest in politics then. Anyhow, I think the Russiains are a bit paranoid to assume that. They may have been an ally of Serbia, but they were in a different era. They needed to reassess their alliances, and see if these alliances worked in their interests.
Having another country placed in the influence sphere of the US and out of the Russian one is in the interesst of Russia? It's about Russias status as a major power.

Having another country placed in the influence sphere of the US and out of the Russian one is in the interesst of Russia? It's about Russias status as a major power.
Well, they were fighting an uphill battle. Both NATO and the EU now have the Baltic states as members. But let's not get sidetracked here, like the last thread on Sudan. How did we even get talking about Turkey in the first place?

Well, they were fighting an uphill battle. Both NATO and the EU now have the Baltic states as members.
And Moscow doesn't like that too much. They just can't fo much about it. But that doesn't mean they'll just sit back without at least complaining about it.
But let's not get sidetracked here, like the last thread on Sudan. How did we even get talking about Turkey in the first place?
Can't remember.

And Moscow doesn't like that too much. They just can't fo much about it. But that doesn't mean they'll just sit back without at least complaining about it.

Can't remember.
Neither can I.

The Russians were not about to let their allies....and fellow slavs be subjugated by forces from the US and NATO. They moved in and stood between the Serbs and NATO until ordered to back away. Their presence ensured that NATO did not march on Belgrade.

I was deployed to Turkey during that time and we were bombing Serbia 24 hours a day for about 3 months until they pulled out of Kosovo. Milosovic is now in The Hague on trial and US forces are STILL in Kosovo to keep the peace.

The Russians were not about to let their allies....and fellow slavs be subjugated by forces from the US and NATO. They moved in and stood between the Serbs and NATO until ordered to back away. Their presence ensured that NATO did not march on Belgrade.

I was deployed to Turkey during that time and we were bombing Serbia 24 hours a day for about 3 months until they pulled out of Kosovo. Milosovic is now in The Hague on trial and US forces are STILL in Kosovo to keep the peace.
I'm guessing the Russians are gone now. About US troops being there, btw, I can reasonably understand your frustration that they aren't gone. But the fact that Kosovo is in Eastern Europe gives it strategic value. It is a staging area for operations in the Middle East, and assuming that things get really hairy there, troops in Eastern Europe can help keep logistics routes clear. I'm no military expert, but this is the value I can see when I look at a world map.
BTW, when you were in Turkey, were you in the US military, or some other NATO contingent?