NationStates Jolt Archive

The discussion of belief in God has been done time and time again. So, here's something new: if God were to exist, should you trust him? How do you know God gives his believers' souls a lovely home in heaven? He could very well be eating them. That's why he resorted to scare-tactics in the old testament - he was getting hungry!

Post your thoughts.

indeed...it has always been my position that even if we were to establish that God exists we would still then have the job of proving he should be worshipped; most believers seem to think that the existence of some God or gods is enough to justify our submission to it/them, and i have to disagree. even if, for example, the God of the Bible exists, i wouldn't worship him, even if he would send me to hell...i could never respect myself for worshipping a God like that, and i would rather suffer eternal torment than live in a way i feel is wrong simply to avoid such punishment.

I don't believe in the concept of a soul any more than I do god :D

Faith is the belief that you can trust where there is no proof. Some people need faith in the benevolence of God in order to live their lives. I don't challenge that. I don't think anyone could successfully argue that god is good, or that he exists at all.

I don't believe in the concept of a soul any more than I do god :D

Faith is the belief that you can trust where there is no proof. Some people need faith in the benevolence of God in order to live their lives. I don't challenge that. I don't think anyone could successfully argue that god is good, or that he exists at all.

The existence of God is assumed for this discussion, but you could say that if God existed but souls didn't then it was just a cruel joke for a powerful being's entertainment.

I really don't understand the mentality behind worship. It's bizarre that people want to grovel at the feet of something that probably doesn't even exist. I guess some people just like being dominated.

Because people need to know that at the end of their days their exsistance will not terminate. I think that anyone who looks forward to annihilation is morbid indeed.

Doncha love "what if" threads?

Doncha love "what if" threads?

Someone should make a poll. ;)

Because people need to know that at the end of their days their exsistance will not terminate. I think that anyone who looks forward to annihilation is morbid indeed.

What about people who don't look forward to it, but just accept that it is going to happen, rather than deluding themselves with fantasies?

I really don't understand the mentality behind worship. It's bizarre that people want to grovel at the feet of something that probably doesn't even exist. I guess some people just like being dominated.
pat yourself on the back. You have just received the "OMG WTF YOU KNOW JACK SHIT" Award!

pat yourself on the back. You have just received the "OMG WTF YOU KNOW JACK SHIT" Award!

Was that really necessary?

Assuming an omniscient God, who are we to say He is benevolent or cruel? How could we possibly judge the actions of an omniscient being? How could a human with a limited capacity even attempt to understand the actions of the Almighty? Maybe God does eat souls after death. Maybe there is some kind of heaven and some kind of hell. A lot of people say God cannot be good because bad things happen in the world. But can we appreciate joy without suffering? Such questions are mysteries for which our human nature insists on seeking answers. Can we ever find them? Doubtful. As such, all doctrines of faith (or lack thereof) are equally valid. All religions and all Gods are equally wrong because all of them are created by man in an attempt to understand that which, by definition, is beyond our understanding.

Finnaly, someone with a brain.

Because people need to know that at the end of their days their exsistance will not terminate. I think that anyone who looks forward to annihilation is morbid indeed.

i don't look forward to death any more than i look forward to going to the bathroom; both are simply natural parts of my existence. i don't dwell on them extensively, nor do i spend my free time meditating on them, i simply embrace and accept them as realities of being a living creature.

The only way I would be worried about a god is if it had the capacity to get bored.

Finnaly, someone with a brain.

Was that in reference to my post? If so, I must thank you for your kind words. I'm a philosophy major, and I've had many different converstaions on this topic. Always glad to share my ideas.

Was that in reference to my post? If so, I must thank you for your kind words. I'm a philosophy major, and I've had many different converstaions on this topic. Always glad to share my ideas.

Hmm... what are you thoughts on the afterlife? Heaven/Hell, if any of it exsistists, if it doesn't etc.

OK, two things people:
1. Stop being idiots. And now that that's put of system;
2. God is not portrayed in the bible as a bad guy. I'm 14 and I know the difference between puishment and disipline. For those of you who don't, punishment is for the satifaction of the one doing it, disipline is for the teaching of the one it is directed at.

You all assume that there is no God, and I will then assume that you place your faith in the out dated and far fetched theory of evolution. An interesting fact about evolution (aside from it being far less posible than creation) is that Darwin himself didn't believe in it and in fact, he became a Christian.
I don't know about you, but if Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God, I sure wouldn't :)

Now, assuming God does exist, as you brought up there is the question of worship. Now here is where you must separate faith from religion. Worship with money is to support the church as most churches don't own 60% of GMC. Prayer is just talking to God.
Think of it this way.

God is your father. He made you (we won't get into the dust thing or anything lol ). Now if you do something against the rules, your father is going to disipline you so that you don't do it again. It doesn't mean that he doesn't love you, quite to the contrary it shows his love in that he keeps trying. Your father makes sure you get what you need, even when you don't deserve it and you don't even know it was him (remember Santa Clause? Guess who that was? Your father)
Now, do you go through life not talking to your father? I should hope not. So should you not talk to God? thats just a stupid question, since you should talk to Him.
A prayer could be as simple as.

Thanks God, that car almost hit me.

or even just, "Thank God"

Some people may say that you need a bunch of beeds, or you need to say a certain amount of Hail-Whoevers but thats not true.

I have a question for you. How much of the bible have you read? How many times have you gone to church?
Should a blind man be discussing Picasso? Should you be discussing God?

OK, two things people:
1. Stop being idiots. And now that that's put of system;
2. God is not portrayed in the bible as a bad guy. I'm 14 and I know the difference between puishment and disipline. For those of you who don't, punishment is for the satifaction of the one doing it, disipline is for the teaching of the one it is directed at.

You all assume that there is no God, and I will then assume that you place your faith in the out dated and far fetched theory of evolution. An interesting fact about evolution (aside from it being far less posible than creation) is that Darwin himself didn't believe in it and in fact, he became a Christian.
I don't know about you, but if Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God, I sure wouldn't :)

Now, assuming God does exist, as you brought up there is the question of worship. Now here is where you must separate faith from religion. Worship with money is to support the church as most churches don't own 60% of GMC. Prayer is just talking to God.
Think of it this way.

God is your father. He made you (we won't get into the dust thing or anything lol ). Now if you do something against the rules, your father is going to disipline you so that you don't do it again. It doesn't mean that he doesn't love you, quite to the contrary it shows his love in that he keeps trying. Your father makes sure you get what you need, even when you don't deserve it and you don't even know it was him (remember Santa Clause? Guess who that was? Your father)
Now, do you go through life not talking to your father? I should hope not. So should you not talk to God? thats just a stupid question, since you should talk to Him.
A prayer could be as simple as.

Thanks God, that car almost hit me.

or even just, "Thank God"

Some people may say that you need a bunch of beeds, or you need to say a certain amount of Hail-Whoevers but thats not true.

I have a question for you. How much of the bible have you read? How many times have you gone to church?
Should a blind man be discussing Picasso? Should you be discussing God?

oh man, not another one...

So being told that if you look back in pity at a city full of people dying, that you will die, is discipline?

Have empathy and die, wife of Lot!

Assuming an omniscient God, who are we to say He is benevolent or cruel? How could we possibly judge the actions of an omniscient being? How could a human with a limited capacity even attempt to understand the actions of the Almighty? Maybe God does eat souls after death. Maybe there is some kind of heaven and some kind of hell. A lot of people say God cannot be good because bad things happen in the world. But can we appreciate joy without suffering? Such questions are mysteries for which our human nature insists on seeking answers. Can we ever find them? Doubtful. As such, all doctrines of faith (or lack thereof) are equally valid. All religions and all Gods are equally wrong because all of them are created by man in an attempt to understand that which, by definition, is beyond our understanding.

*applauds*

So being told that if you look back in pity at a city full of people dying, that you will die, is discipline?

Have empathy and die, wife of Lot!

yeah, and all those kids sold into slavery because God said it was okay, they just needed dicipline! and the ones God had eaten by bears, they learned a whole lot from that dicipline! they're dead, that'll teach them!

funny, when i propose that children be stoned to death for using curse words people call me crazy and heartless. i wonder why they call God "loving," when it was his idea to begin with?

So being told that if you look back in pity at a city full of people dying, that you will die, is discipline?

Have empathy and die, wife of Lot!

Although, one MUSt assume that the early texts of the bible (specifically Genesis) must be taken with a grain of salt (pun intended). I see them more as moral stories, to teach us about proper ethics and behavior, and less of actual historical actions.

its not a matter of trust. trust or not trust god will do with us as he pleases. what seems good to god might be not all that good to us. like say an eternity of cleaning out heavens outhouses. all we can do is hope for the best

the HOPE that god will treat us kindly (by our own definitions of kindness) is perhaps all that keeps a believer from laying awake all night worrying

Hmm... what are you thoughts on the afterlife? Heaven/Hell, if any of it exsistists, if it doesn't etc.

Philosophically, I believe that no real conclusions can be reached. This doesn't mean we should not have opinions or discussions on the topic, but when we do we should have them with the understanding that we cannot discover fundamental truths by such a process. On a personal level, I find the beliefs of Indian philosophers as well Greek mythology to be quite appealing. I can't quite explain why I find them compelling. Both typically believe in a process of reincarnation, often aimed toward some eventual cosmic goal. I suppose it makes sense to me because of phenomena like deja-vu and a series of vivid dreams that seem to be past lives. But that's what makes the world work for me, and I don't expect to sway anybody to my personal viewpoint.

I don't know about you, but if Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God, I sure wouldn't :)

Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God...That was just an idea fabricated my religious extremists in Rome.

Pallia, the one thing that confuses me about multiple lives is: Why are we playing out THIS current life? As opposed to some future one, or a past one?

I can't explain my meaning very well, but I hope you understand...

Although, one MUSt assume that the early texts of the bible (specifically Genesis) must be taken with a grain of salt (pun intended). I see them more as moral stories, to teach us about proper ethics and behavior, and less of actual historical actions.

so the early Bible ISN'T the word of God? are you suggesting that we should question the Holy Text? then why not question the later Bible as well? why is the later Bible not just some fables like Aesop, rather than an actual record of God's existence?

1. Where does God actually tell someone to either feed a child to bears or sell them when their people are being good? I have a bible give the verses.
2. Do you expect a 2 year old child to understand what his father is doing or why he is doing it? No. And the fact that we expect to understand God is why people like you post these threads and why people like me post on them and achieve nothing but getting pissed off. lol

Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God...

That is up to debate.

so the early Bible ISN'T the word of God? are you suggesting that we should question the Holy Text? then why not question the later Bible as well? why is the later Bible not just some fables like Aesop, rather than an actual record of God's existence?

They very well could be. The way I see it is thus:

If religion is not the path to salvation, and thus, salvation is impossible to achieve, at least you lived out a moral life for youself, and the betterment of humanity as a whole

pat yourself on the back. You have just received the "OMG WTF YOU KNOW JACK SHIT" Award!

Ha! You know what? You really aren't worth the effort of flaming.

OK, two things people:
1. Stop being idiots. And now that that's put of system;
2. God is not portrayed in the bible as a bad guy. I'm 14 and I know the difference between puishment and disipline. For those of you who don't, punishment is for the satifaction of the one doing it, disipline is for the teaching of the one it is directed at.

You all assume that there is no God, and I will then assume that you place your faith in the out dated and far fetched theory of evolution. An interesting fact about evolution (aside from it being far less posible than creation) is that Darwin himself didn't believe in it and in fact, he became a Christian.
I don't know about you, but if Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God, I sure wouldn't :)

Now, assuming God does exist, as you brought up there is the question of worship. Now here is where you must separate faith from religion. Worship with money is to support the church as most churches don't own 60% of GMC. Prayer is just talking to God.
Think of it this way.

God is your father. He made you (we won't get into the dust thing or anything lol ). Now if you do something against the rules, your father is going to disipline you so that you don't do it again. It doesn't mean that he doesn't love you, quite to the contrary it shows his love in that he keeps trying. Your father makes sure you get what you need, even when you don't deserve it and you don't even know it was him (remember Santa Clause? Guess who that was? Your father)
Now, do you go through life not talking to your father? I should hope not. So should you not talk to God? thats just a stupid question, since you should talk to Him.
A prayer could be as simple as.

Thanks God, that car almost hit me.

or even just, "Thank God"

Some people may say that you need a bunch of beeds, or you need to say a certain amount of Hail-Whoevers but thats not true.

I have a question for you. How much of the bible have you read? How many times have you gone to church?
Should a blind man be discussing Picasso? Should you be discussing God?

I don't intend to hijack this thread, but I feel the need to point something out. Please don't start an argument over this topic, though, because it would be discourteos to the originator of the thread.

That being said, I must humbly diagree with your assement of Darwin. True, Charles Darwin never quite refined his theory to the extent that he would have liked to do it, but one of the greatest dissapointments in his life is that his theory was never accepted more widely than it was. Many biologists since then have shown with great force that there is validity in his theory. Furthermore, let's be careful not to equate science with atheism. There are no conceptual inconsistancies that would prevent a person from believing both in evolution and the creation story. Case in point: the Roman Catholic Church, after centuries of imprisoning or excommunicating members who proposed radical new scientific theories, recently accepted as valid Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

They very well could be. The way I see it is thus:

If religion is not the path to salvation, and thus, salvation is impossible to achieve, at least you lived out a moral life for youself, and the betterment of humanity as a whole

but how is living according to the Bible moral, if the Bible approves slavery, rape, murder, incest, and physical abuse? why would living according to a belief in salvation ever qualify as moral? if you are just being good so that you can go to heaven then you aren't nearly as moral as somebody who is good out of practical reason and empathy, so aren't you taking an awfully big risk by going the "salvation" route? you are taking the chance that your only existence will be spent immorally, in the hope that you will have managed to worship the correct God and he will reward you once you die.

but how is living according to the Bible moral, if the Bible approves slavery, rape, murder, incest, and physical abuse? why would living according to a belief in salvation ever qualify as moral? if you are just being good so that you can go to heaven then you aren't nearly as moral as somebody who is good out of practical reason and empathy, so aren't you taking an awfully big risk by going the "salvation" route? you are taking the chance that your only existence will be spent immorally, in the hope that you will have managed to worship the correct God and he will reward you once you die.

Good points. Good Points indeed. I really don't have an answer to that.

Pallia, the one thing that confuses me about multiple lives is: Why are we playing out THIS current life? As opposed to some future one, or a past one?

I can't explain my meaning very well, but I hope you understand...

I do understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer. Perhaps it is something like the Buddhist belief, that the soul itself does not return whole to live again, but rather parts or seeds of it carry on and forge themselves into new souls. Perhaps it is simply the limits of conciousness that disallows multiple experiences all at once. Consider this: how difficult is it to concentrate in a crowded, noisy room? We're experiencing one life at the moment becuase we couldn't experience more than one at a time and still function. Perhaps he don't have a linear temporal existence, and past and future are meaningless (which could explain my clear memories of past lives are absent). In the end, there is no real answer. It's all a matter of faith.

Could it be that our existince is linear? Pallia has an idea on why we can't remember past lives, but what if schizophrenia is the answer? It could be that our past memories are blocked out by our brain, because if they were realesed in us schizophrenia would be what could happen. And some minds just could not keep in those memories and became delusional, believing things of the past life to be here and now.

I don't know much about the disorder, but i just had this idea and decided to throw it out.

Could it be that our existince is linear? Pallia has an idea on why we can't remember past lives, but what if schizophrenia is the answer? It could be that our past memories are blocked out by our brain, because if they were realesed in us schizophrenia would be what could happen. And some minds just could not keep in those memories and became delusional, believing things of the past life to be here and now.

I don't know much about the disorder, but i just had this idea and decided to throw it out.

Interesting, hadn't really thought about it that way. Well put.

Hmmm. There have been some interesting posts here.

I'd like to reinforce the topic at hand:

We're not debating the existence of God, we're assuming for this thread that he exists.

The question is, could he be trusted? Could he be expected to care about human interests, or would we be nothing but tools he uses?

Hmmm. There have been some interesting posts here.

I'd like to reinforce the topic at hand:

We're not debating the existence of God, we're assuming for this thread that he exists.

The question is, could he be trusted? Could he be expected to care about human interests, or would we be nothing but tools he uses?

Well, now we have a problem. Which God are we discussing? One God Now And Forever? Or the Triune God? For those who don't have a clue what I'm talking about. The Jews (please correct me if I'm wrong) only believe in God, as in one guy. Christians (or at least us Lutherans, I don't know about the Catholics (J/K)) believe in a Triune God, that is, three guys that comprise God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).
So here lies the problem, if we go with the Jewish point of view and consider only the Old Testament, we may have a good discussion. On the other hand, if we consider the New Testament as well and we assume for this discussion that God exists then the question is already answered as we must also assume that the New Testament is correct, in which case we can only come to the conslusion that God is good.
However, to decide which to debate, and choose we must, how do we decide if not by deciding which God exists?
And if indeed we do decide, what evidence is to be considered other than the bible if some of it doesn't fit with the bible? (Some would say that evolution fits into the biblical timeline of creation, and others say its a load of crap)
So you see, you really must be more specific if you don't want a debate. But thats just my opinion. :)

BTW Pallia, I'm Lutheran. I don't care what the Catholics do with their beliefs. They also put Marry, priests, and the Pope next and sometimes above God (Again, correct me if I'm wrong)
But anyhoo, I'm a Lutheran, which is the faith begun by Martin Luther when he disgreed with the Catholics, so it is really quite ironic that youre using the Catholics in a discussion with me (J/K)

Well, now we have a problem. Which God are we discussing? One God Now And Forever? Or the Triune God? For those who don't have a clue what I'm talking about. The Jews (please correct me if I'm wrong) only believe in God, as in one guy. Christians (or at least us Lutherans, I don't know about the Catholics (J/K)) believe in a Triune God, that is, three guys that comprise God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).
So here lies the problem, if we go with the Jewish point of view and consider only the Old Testament, we may have a good discussion. On the other hand, if we consider the New Testament as well and we assume for this discussion that God exists then the question is already answered as we must also assume that the New Testament is correct, in which case we can only come to the conslusion that God is good.
However, to decide which to debate, and choose we must, how do we decide if not by deciding which God exists?
And if indeed we do decide, what evidence is to be considered other than the bible if some of it doesn't fit with the bible? (Some would say that evolution fits into the biblical timeline of creation, and others say its a load of crap)
So you see, you really must be more specific if you don't want a debate. But thats just my opinion. :)

BTW Pallia, I'm Lutheran. I don't care what the Catholics do with their beliefs. They also put Marry, priests, and the Pope next and sometimes above God (Again, correct me if I'm wrong)
But anyhoo, I'm a Lutheran, which is the faith begun by Martin Luther when he disgreed with the Catholics, so it is really quite ironic that youre using the Catholics in a discussion with me (J/K)

all non heretical christians believe in the trinity. nicene creed and all
some more modern sects (those who came after we burned people for believing this stuff) dont believe in the trinity or believe in other testaments of jesus, etc.

catholics put mary, the saints, the pope, priests, BETWEEN you and god. as a kind of middleman to plead your case if you arent ready to face god all by yourself. there isnt otherwise a lot of difference between catholic belief and lutheran belief.

it seems to me that most of religion is an attempt to compel god to do what you want. not unlike when a 3 year old says "but i said PLEEEEZE".

so we want it to be that if we just "take jesus christ as our personal lord and savior" god has to let us into heaven. if we jsust say the right thing, do the right sacraments, follow the right rules god MUST let us in.

the universe is a cold cruel impersonal place where bad things happen at random. religion is our way of trying to get it to go our way.

if i pray hard enough, my child wont die. if i light a few candles at church ill pass that exam. if i trust in gods plan for me, he wont do me wrong.

it makes us feel better.

The discussion of belief in God has been done time and time again. So, here's something new: if God were to exist, should you trust him? How do you know God gives his believers' souls a lovely home in heaven? He could very well be eating them. That's why he resorted to scare-tactics in the old testament - he was getting hungry!

Post your thoughts.

Well, you might as well trust him, because if he's God, he can just eat you. If he was gonna eat me, than why hasn't he? And, I like being optimistic...ish...

The discussion of belief in God has been done time and time again. So, here's something new: if God were to exist, should you trust him? How do you know God gives his believers' souls a lovely home in heaven? He could very well be eating them. That's why he resorted to scare-tactics in the old testament - he was getting hungry!

Post your thoughts.

I suppose I should concede that it is entirely possible that God is cruel and, as you say, hungry. However...

...there are a few reasons I don't think this is true.

(1) For starters, let us analyze the nature of God. God is held to be the "alpha and omega", the beginning and end, all-powerful and all-knowing. Which, of course, begs an obvious question: why need God be hungry?. There is no need for God to devour anything.

(2) Secondly...okay, so in the Old Testament he was a bit of an ass-kicker. That doesn't address or explain the New Testament in the least...what would be the point of sending Jesus to be among us? To "save" us and thus bring more souls for God to dine on?

Okay, but that doesn't explain why he sent Jesus. I mean, wouldn't he be able to just snatch up any soul he felt like at any time? Why does he need to become flesh-and-blood like us, experience what it is to be us, and ultimately suffer and die...just for a mid-afternoon snack? That's a little...well, devoted to his belly maybe...but more probably just more effort than it would be worth in the first place.

What is the purpose of Jesus? Jesus came, yes, to wash away our sins and lead us back to God's redemption and eternal salvation. And Jesus did this by dying on the Cross for us.

But...ultimately, we ourselves choose our salvation (or lack thereof). We ourselves choose to acknowledge that Christ did this for us, or reject it.

If God is just cruel and hungry...why give us the choice?

(3) There is a devourer of souls, and we would typically know him/her/it as the Devil (best person in - or out of - the world to laugh at).

Most, if not all, of us should be able to recognize that there is a binary opposition of good and evil, right and wrong. Most, if not all, of us should be able to recognize that some actions are good while others are evil. That isn't necessarily denying that there is a grey area, but even in cases of grey...in the end, there are still actions that are more right or more wrong.

So if we have the Devil, then it is reasonable and logical to assume that there is in fact a binary opposite to the Devil. We call that God.

(4) If God is just a lunch-hungry monster, why (even in the Old Testament) does he continually abdicate power in favour of letting humanity have its own ways, its freedoms and its choices?

From the setting aside of the bow (Genesis, the Flood Tale) down through I can't remember how many times God relents that divine temper in the face of a single human's plea...if all he's after is an easy lunch, there is no reason to do any of this.

Have to say, though...it's good to be back, even if I don't really agree with the new look and feel of this forum.

:? Aiera

but how is living according to the Bible moral, if the Bible approves slavery, rape, murder, incest, and physical abuse? why would living according to a belief in salvation ever qualify as moral? if you are just being good so that you can go to heaven then you aren't nearly as moral as somebody who is good out of practical reason and empathy, so aren't you taking an awfully big risk by going the "salvation" route? you are taking the chance that your only existence will be spent immorally, in the hope that you will have managed to worship the correct God and he will reward you once you die.

Incest? Maybe you should actually read the Bible instead of getting crap like this from other people who haven't read the Bible.

Incest? Maybe you should actually read the Bible instead of getting crap like this from other people who haven't read the Bible.

If God made Adam and Eve, and they had kids, who did those kids have more kids with?

Assuming an omniscient God, who are we to say He is benevolent or cruel? How could we possibly judge the actions of an omniscient being? How could a human with a limited capacity even attempt to understand the actions of the Almighty? Maybe God does eat souls after death. Maybe there is some kind of heaven and some kind of hell. A lot of people say God cannot be good because bad things happen in the world. But can we appreciate joy without suffering? Such questions are mysteries for which our human nature insists on seeking answers. Can we ever find them? Doubtful. As such, all doctrines of faith (or lack thereof) are equally valid. All religions and all Gods are equally wrong because all of them are created by man in an attempt to understand that which, by definition, is beyond our understanding.

Which, following your line of logic, means that ALL religions are corrupt.

The only way I would be worried about a god is if it had the capacity to get bored.

LOL! (damn, that must be the first time i've ever typed that)

In a sense, all religions are corrupt. They've all more or less missed the point. Let's just consider the Bible, which is at the basis of many faiths. There's an awful lot of BS regarding ppl who lived a thousand years, mythical stunts by biblical heroes and delusions of intoxicated macho bearded men. But the important part is the values it tries to pass on, like love, forgiveness, compassion. If that Jesus guy really did exist, and if he actually performed some of those things, he was a great guy! If ppl just followed his example more, instead of perpetuating old meaningless rituals, things would be better now. If you can't question what you believe in, you're only assured to be wrong.

If God made Adam and Eve, and they had kids, who did those kids have more kids with?

God made other humans, Adam and Eve were the first.

God made other humans, Adam and Eve were the first.

He did? First time I ever heard that.

Mankind is sinful and has been since the fall of adam. They are born in sin. According to the Bible, God requires that there has to be blood shed for the remisson of sins. (hebrews 10:31) Not only blood but the blood has to be pure without blemish, and there has to be a repentant heart in order for the sin to be forgiven.

God loves and wants us to be with him, but cant allow sin in his presence. Thats why he came down himself, Jesus wholly human, wholly God.

Jesus never sinned thats why he was the perfect sacrifice for past present and future sins for all mankind for all those who repent and trust in christ.

Mankind is sinful and has been since the fall of adam. They are born in sin. According to the Bible, God requires that there has to be blood shed for the remisson of sins. (hebrews 10:31) Not only blood but the blood has to be pure without blemish, and there has to be a repentant heart in order for the sin to be forgiven.

God loves and wants us to be with him, but cant allow sin in his presence. Thats why he came down himself, Jesus wholly human, wholly God.

Jesus never sinned thats why he was the perfect sacrifice for past present and future sins for all mankind for all those who repent and trust in christ.


It's God.

He can say "ALright, you're all going up here, no more sin"




Now who's putting limitations on Him?

He did? First time I ever heard that.

That, and there may be a reason why we're only 1.6% DNA difference from chimps. And by that i don't mean that they were screwing monkeys, but that maybe God made them the first sentient monkeys, but made others of the same species (our and chimps' common ancestor maybe?). I'm not entirely sure, but incest, no.

Atheism itself is not about proving anything. The hole idea of atheism is
not about proving that god exists its simply seeing no reason for him to exist.
There requires absolutely no proof to believe something doesn't exist. I
don't believe there is a pony standing in front of me. I have no real proof it
doesn't exist and theoretically i could be being deceived. The analogy,
therefore, translates over to the idea about god and religion. I have no reason to
believe a supreme being who sits above the clouds exists. Moreover, just
because you experience incredible and amazing things doesn't mean it is not
physical. Classifying the experience as physical does not demean the experience
nor do we have any reason to doubt the power of physical things. The very idea
that a bunch of cells creates a human sentience is incredible in itself, but
we know when we hurt those cells in a physical manner they change and that
sentience can dissappear. The other argument for religion is often based on
desire for it. People say it makes my life whole, it gives meaning, it provides
stability and comfort and i don't doubt it. Unfortunately want for something
does not make it a reality. I can really want to have a million dollars in my
pocket but it doesn't mean i have it. After all, if god exists it would be the
greatest coincidence of all time. He solves all our problems. He takes the
fear of death away, he punishes the people who are bad even if they escape in
life, he helps the poor, tells people that each person is part of something
greater, that they have a vocation, and he solves our very need to believe in
something better and grand. That's the reason some form of him, different
everywhere, has developed. They're different because of different societies but
they all deal with our humanity and what we truly desire. Not to mention
everything we didn't know about was solved in the bible. Is the world flat, what's
above those clouds, what are those other planets. The more science comes up
with the more we see that this was wrong. The truth of the matter is if you
think of it objectively the burden of proof is on the believers. I know this
sounds incredibly withdrawn and unsoulful, but its the truth. You need "proof"
to believe something you don't need proof not to. Faith is another issue.

Well, this is mainly to the person who started this line of chat, I chose not to read the other folks (hey, at least I admit it).

Anyhow, I (as you might guess) try my best to trust God as often as possible. After being in Him for nearly a year of my life, and seeing the greatness of being in the Faith, I see no reason to do anything BUT trust Him. For example, if He was "hungry" for souls as you put it, we would be encouraged to preach to everyone and force conversions, as well as God revieling Himself a lot so that people could obviously believe in Him, therefore giving Himself more souls. But, I'm just your average Joe, I have no idea what God really has in mind.

What I think, is that God really only wants people who can believe in Him, and don't need proof. That His Word and acts are enough for us to want to follow Him. The only think that I know is that God exists, and that many thousands of lines of prophesy that He inspired has come true. If THAT was true, why not everything else? It hasn't steered me wrong yet.

Oh, and by the by, I've read the Old Testiment a couple times. I really don't see any basis for "scare tactics" that you talk about. There just wasn't Jesus on earth yet.

-R. S. of UC

does the christian/jewish/muslim interpretation go against the ideas of free will? if you think about it all 3 gods are supposedly omnipotent, they are everywhere. they also believe that god knows all from past present and future. and if god knows, has seen, and is in our futures then how can we say we have free will. we obviously cant have free will if our futures can be seen and even lived by this god.


and another thing. whats gods motivation. why does he do what he does. he wouldnt really have any reason to do anything if he can already see past present and future. humans being play toys wouldnt work either because then he/she/it would already know how the game ends and it would be no fun to play in the first place. my idea. if there is a god him/her/its only motivation would be to see what the world would be if he/she/it wasnt here. therefore the only thing god would want to do is try to destroy himself/herself/itself. and knowing past present and future he/she/it would already know how to destroy himself/herself/itself. therefore my idea is that we are pieces of god and the big bang was when god destroyed him/her/itself. now god is reassembling and that is where society comes in. we are all part of a whole. one skin cell has no idea it is part of a being, it just does what it has to to survive. that is what we are. unknowing beings mindlessly reassembling to reform god so his/her/itself can be complete a fully know any outcome of anything in the entire universe.

or i could be full of shit, who knows.

God is a vague term which means in the words yoiu are saying the Godhead:
There are three individuals/personas in this council
1. Heavenly Father- father of all of us
2. Jesus Christ, his First born in heaven, given power to create Earth, and one who made idea of Life on earth gift.
3. Holy Spirit(Holy Ghost): Who is the consciousness of all the Spirits who go to heaven.
You see everyone has a say in Heaven, this explains how they can be everywhere.
Do you know how many spirits there are?

More than 10 billion at least. More than enough to be "everywhere" they need to be.

He doesn't know past, present, and future: he knows how you will act in any given situation because he's been a father and his Wife a Mother in Heaven.(Heavenly Mother exist but rarely spoken)

A good father knows how his children will act in all situations. My mom knows how my brother Eric will act, you would think most parents would be that good.

but then we get to the whole gods motivation thing, why would he give us free will. it doesnt help him any and he isnt getting anything out of it. you dont just do something for the hell of it. and if god knows how his children will act then we still dont have free will because no matter what we do god already knew we were going to so what we do is completely in line with "gods plan for us" or whatever.

Incest? Maybe you should actually read the Bible instead of getting crap like this from other people who haven't read the Bible.

Here is one example.

Genesis 19:36-38
So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.

Saying the bible supports slavery is like saying America does because it was legal several hundred years ago. Thats not really an accurate or fair account of the Bible's stance on such.
There is some debate about how many humans were made. The bible describes creating humans and giving them mastery over the earth, then it describes God chilling on the Sabbath, and then afer the world was made and done it describes Adam and Eve. Some will argue that it was outside of chronological order. <shrugs> Regardless, criticizing people for breeding with relatives when there are 12 people on the planet(if thats all there were) is kind of silly. And in such close quarters with God any problems that arose before the species spread out could be prevented before hand or squashed.
Its not an important or relevant thing anyway. Just a distant gnat for people to strain at because theres some room to point doubt at it instead of dealing with what the religion and the book is all about.

Back to the spirit of the thread:
Its hard for me to do the 'what if' when I interact with him personally. I cant be all cringing and wondering if he'll eat me anymore than my child worries about me eating him. Theres a relationship involved.

By the very nature of being a God and the definitions the christian God uses, whatever he likes is good. If he likes to eat you, its the good and holy thing. Sorry, cant be evil and not get eaten now can we. Do certain lifestyles add a distinct flavor? <twitches>

What is God's motivation? The christian God really digs company. Not mindless machiens with no will of their own, he likes to hang out with things that want to hang out with him. Theres also some personal and general amusement involved, I think.

Christianity is corrupted, so is the Bible....Jesus was a human, not God itself. With a miracle, like Adam and Eve, he was born without a father. He was totally a human like each of us. God did not come to the world in his body. God is not like humans, it does not have gender or children. It does not need the help of angels or any other power. It ıs unique ın power, knowledge and science....God created the time for humans, so it does not need time...it has neither a beginning nor an end...so, there can not be a phrase like "before the God"...additionaly...all divine religions (jewih, christianity,islam) believe in the same God. There are not three different types of God for each religion. God just gave its messages to human beings with different prophets and different holy books...however some were changed and corrupted unfortunately....so, the verses you give from the Bible are corrupted....in fact they are the words of people who even did not see and listen Jesus while he was alive !!

[QUOTE=You all assume that there is no God, and I will then assume that you place your faith in the out dated and far fetched theory of evolution. An interesting fact about evolution (aside from it being far less posible than creation) is that Darwin himself didn't believe in it and in fact, he became a Christian.[/QUOTE]

I must assume that you find evolutionary theory outdated because it started 1800 years ago. Much older than your bible, I must also assume. The theory of evolution has been continually updated and is continually supported by fossil records and empirical evidence. There is no 'law of evolution,' but evolution exists. Ask a cat breeder. Whether you find that a replacement for your religion or not is up to you.

Now, back to the original thread. I'm reminded of a philosophical question brought before (I think) Socrates. It asked whether the gods were righteous because they created morality, or because they followed morality. In other words, is morality inherent and the gods communicate it, or is it moral because the gods say so? It's a fun conundrum, but I don't remember enough of my discussion to re-create it.

"should a 14 year kid explain to adults, with FAR more experience of life, what the world is like?"

im just continuing your reasoning....