NationStates Jolt Archive

The United States, along with Western Civilization seems to have embraced for many years the seemingly Nazi idea of the blond hair, blue eyed, muscular man with sharp chiseled statuesque features or the thin woman, with blond hair, and blue eyes. Statistics show that the majority of blonds in the US are in fact dyed blonds. Why do we still hold this image of perfection? It is in our magazines, the image of the model, Bradd Pitt, etc. Perhaps this was a pre-Nazi idea of perfection as well, and the myth creators just happened to tap into people's asthetic perception. But why does this seem to be the image of perfection? I have read something that interestingly says it is because the facial features are asymmetrical, and that it broadly appeals to everyone. Such as a work of art like the Taj Mahal is universally appreciated, and many humans can judge what is beautiful and what is not. Is this how this physical image perfection works? Or perhaps it is cultural?

Or in the case of other races, it is the same statuesque chisled features, Roman nose, muscular build, etc. etc.

Angels are most often depicted this way as well, with blond hair, blue eyes, and these "perfect" features etc.

as far back as the Egyptians people were dying their hair blonde. Pharrohs did it. Maybe back then it was a sign of divinity that just carried over till now.

as far back as the Egyptians people were dying their hair blonde. Pharrohs did it. Maybe back then it was a sign of divinity that just carried over till now.

On that note it seems even some of the pictures of the Pharoahs, the statues, seem to give them these same sharp facial features, sometimes high cheekbones (think?), etc. It seems the standard cross-cultural noble features.

What a discriminating post.

What a discriminating post.

Its not discriminating, its the truth...just look around at people's idea of perfection. Pick up a fashion magazine, look on TV, look at how most models appear. THis is not discrimination. I see people consider this the universal standard of handsomness in daily life. It is the typical "Jock look", look at Abercrombie & Fitch models for a good example of this (at least the chiseled statuesque look).

[edit miss read earlier author]
not discriminating ... merly discussing what public perception is

As for my answer it is simply … I don’t know, not my idea of perfect but it really is a seemingly deep-rooted belief at least in the collective unconscious

Its not discriminating, its the truth...just look around at people's idea of perfection. Pick up a fashion magazine, look on TV, look at how most models appear. THis is not discrimination. I see people consider this the universal standard of handsomness in daily life. It is the typical "Jock look", look at Abercrombie & Fitch models for a good example of this (at least the chiseled statuesque look).
Thats not what I meant. But your tying the ideal to the Nazi's.

Thats not what I meant. But your tying the ideal to the Nazi's.

I am sure it was indeed pre-Nazi, but the Nazis promoted this idea.....

I am sure it was indeed pre-Nazi, but the Nazis promoted this idea.....
Yeah. And dozens of other nations as well. The ideal in Japan, so I heard ones, is blonde with green eyes.

perhaps it's because yellow seems more...nicer...than black or brown?

Anyways, I tend to lean to black haired women rather than blondes.

Hispanics

I never did understand why blonde hair is so popular. I always prefered black or red hair.

I never did understand why blonde hair is so popular. I always prefered black or red hair.

It goes beyond the blond hair though, and extends on to the perfect look as far as the chisled features, the facial features with the Roman nose, cheekbones, etc.

It goes beyond the blond hair though, and extends on to the perfect look as far as the chisled features, the facial features with the Roman nose, cheekbones, etc.
Isn't a Roman nose kinda crooked? Like a vultures beak?
Maybe you could post a pic to clear that up for me?

Isn't a Roman nose kinda crooked? Like a vultures beak?
Maybe you could post a pic to clear that up for me?

I'm not going to debate this with you, the look that is popular is obvious. I am speaking of the sharp nose that you will see on Abercrombie & Fitch Models, runway models, etc. etc.

I'm not going to debate this with you,
Why not?
the look that is popular is obvious. I am speaking of the sharp nose that you will see on Abercrombie & Fitch Models, runway models, etc. etc.
Sure. I just am not sure that it is a Roman nose.

Sure. I just am not sure that it is a Roman nose.

Then what is the proper term for that type of prominent nose?

Then what is the proper term for that type of prominent nose?
I don't know. Thats why I asked.

I'm blonde. But I have green eyes.

I don't see it, the whole perfect idea of blonde hair and blue eyes. There are many nice combinations of hair and eye color.

I'm blonde. But I have green eyes.

I don't see it, the whole perfect idea of blonde hair and blue eyes. There are many nice combinations of hair and eye color.

I am just saying it is the very popularly marketed idea of beauty, bought into, and seems to be liked by the masses/majority.

I get what you are saying Aerion

Its odd how ideals of beauty haven't changed increadably over thousands of years.

I'm sure anti-semitism and racism has lots to do with it, but for now, its the mass media.

I get what you are saying Aerion

Its odd how ideals of beauty haven't changed increadably over thousands of years.

I'm sure anti-semitism and racism has lots to do with it, but for now, its the mass media.

I'm perhaps (dangerously) thinking it is a human predisposition, and the people who said that facial asymmetry may have something to do with it are right (That it is because the facial symmetry appeals to all). Still not sure about the blond hair, blue eyes.

ALSO NOTE!

Angels are normally depicted as blond hair, blue eyed with this same appearance.

I am just saying it is the very popularly marketed idea of beauty, bought into, and seems to be liked by the masses/majority.

Yeah I know what you are saying. My response was just that I wonder why it happened. There are plenty of hair and eye color combinations that are very nice like blonde/blue.

Any one else have any enlightening comments?

I think blonde has begun to move further back. My girlfriend's been working on a project thing and has been cutting out stuff from her girl's magazines, and, just for fun, I've helped some.

What I've noticed that while blonde has moved out of the picture, bright bright blue or green eyes have begun to be the big thing. Among with being short (the models usually looked about 5' 5" or 5' 6") and thin.

I think most of it is personal opinion on what beautiful is. I think my girl is absolutely beautiful, even though she's just shy of 6' tall, brown hair, brown eyes, and thin, but not 'model-thin'. However, it seems like the media uses these generalizations of brightly colored eyes, thin, and short, because that's probably what the majority of people believe is pretty.

Catering to the majority is what the media tries to do. Makes people want to buy their stuff or watch their channel.

I personally find brown hair and brown eyes much more attractive, but that's more personal than anything.

Although, I do have to wonder where this mythical "most people find blond + blue eyes more attractive" 'fact' comes from - I've rarely seen an entire room agree to that; in fact, I've never seen a large group even have much of a *majority* that agrees with it.

Personally? I think it may be an artistic thing. Yellow and blue are almost contrasting colours (techincally, blue and *orange* are on opposite sides of the colour wheel... but that's a minor issue). I believe that the popular media of all ages has snapped up this attractive contrast, which is why it is such a prominent thing.

Many people also approve of red hair and green eyes - a similar contrast. However, red hair + green eyed combinations are much much rarer - even green eyes in themselve are rare, so there's no easy solution of just dying your hair. Hence why I believe red hair + green eyes aren't seen as much in the popular media (by popular media I mean anything visual directed at the masses).

And yes, scientific studies have shown that as human facial features approach symmetrical, a higher percentage of people find them attractive. The less symmetrical, the less attractive. There was a television show about it a couple of years ago, and they made a very good case.

I have natural blonde hair and natural blue eyes (they're more grey now). Only it's dark blond. In German a few years ago we had to say what colour hair we had one guy told me I wasn't blonde then went onto say he meant wasn't blonde enough to count as blonde.

Incidentally I just dyed my hair red like I do every summer (semi-permanently, the rest of the time I'm natural) and when I was mentioning dyeing black most of my friends said that would be really good because of my grey/blue eyes.

With the angels I believe it is because blond and blue look innocent and, well, angelic. I think catalogues go for 'standard beauty'. They use models with typical features and nothing that promotes a strong reaction so everyone can see how attractive they are and how attractive you will be when you buy it. Something like large detached ears, which I find attractive but my friend finds off-putting, doesn’t appeal to as many people.

Personally I think people are much more attractive when they have distinct features.

Whatever.


Go asians :p

lol, Goed..

Btw, speaking of asians, different people from different parts of the globe and in different times seems to have thier own standards of beauty(i.e. the redness of some african tribe, the round face of the early japanese, foot binding of the chinese etc..)

It could have something to do with blonde hair being associated with childhood and youth, since -- in European populations, at least -- it isn't uncommon for children to have fair hair which becomes darker as they get older. I had blonde hair as a kid, although it's dark brown now. The blue eyes could come from the fact that most people who remain blonde into adulthood tend to have blue eyes. Marina Warner goes into this idea in her analysis of folk- and fairy-tales, From the Beast to the Blonde.

The "chiselled" or "classical" features probably emphasise the attractions of regularity, but may also have something to do with media laziness and the requirements of mass culture. As is clear from several other posts, many people don't find blonde models attractive, or as attractive as other types. However, I don't think many people would view them as being unattractive: a blonde, blue-eyed, regular featured model is a vanilla option that they hope will appeal across the largest audience.

i think personality is so much more important than looks...and a genuine smile looks so attractive on any face whether conventionally handsome or not :)

i think personality is so much more important than looks...and a genuine smile looks so attractive on any face whether conventionally handsome or not :)


I think that its a combination of both. Looks gets your attention and is important in the short term, but personality wins in the long run. Well, at least, this is the case with strangers meeting up for the first time...

Sadly, studies hav ebeen done that people are more likely to help an attractive person than an unattractive one. In the long term, personality is indeed important. In the short term, good looks may get people places, even into jobs.

Isn't the appeal of blond hair supposed to have something to do with it's association with youth? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Sorry if someone has already mentioned it.

Also, I can't say that blond hair and blue eyes do a whole lot for me. I prefer guys with darker colouring. I do like guys with really fair skin though. They're so adorable when they blush. :p

One thing of interest is that cultures seem to find the more unusual attractive. Orientals are very often seen as attractive in western culture, and the 'whites' of the west have, for centuries, been perceived as attractive in Japan - which is the root of Geisha cosmetic decoration.

Perhaps blond/blue eyed is considered attractive because it was, at some point, a rarity - and so has some kind of attached value. I would assume that blond/blue eyed would have been something of a rare mutation in the Mesopotamian region, in Imperial Europe, and the Middle to far East.

Going back a mere two thousand years, blonds with blue eyes were pretty much local to only one small area of upper Europe, and the only reason for their spread now, is the conquering nature of those Northlanders, and the cultures they mixed with.

Also - at least part of the blame must lay with the modern media, and a 'fear' of difference. If two big movie-stars are blonde, it is going to be much more likely that another blonde movie star is going to get a break. Similarly, if one cover-girl is blonde, the next 'big-thing' they look for will be blonde.

Isn't the appeal of blond hair supposed to have something to do with it's association with youth? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Sorry if someone has already mentioned it.

Also, I can't say that blond hair and blue eyes do a whole lot for me. I prefer guys with darker colouring. I do like guys with really fair skin though. They're so adorable when they blush. :p

Slightly off-topic perhaps... but being all ancient, and (no doubt) justified... do you drive an ice-cream van?

Is this thread supposed to have a rhetoric of the myth of an Aryan super-empire that stretched across Eurasia, as believed by the Nazis?

And what's this that some people believe that we are cultural heirs of the ancient Egyptians? What a ridiculous proposition. Either that or hot air.

Is this thread supposed to have a rhetoric of the myth of an Aryan super-empire that stretched across Eurasia, as believed by the Nazis?

And what's this that some people believe that we are cultural heirs of the ancient Egyptians? What a ridiculous proposition. Either that or hot air.

No, just stating the fact that blond haired blue eyed people are considered very attractive by the majority in our society, and with those chiseled facial features. Trying to figure out why. Look at models in magazines, most will be near or have those facial features. Abercrombie models are best example.

No, just stating the fact that blond haired blue eyed people are considered very attractive by the majority in our society, and with those chiseled facial features. Trying to figure out why. Look at models in magazines, most will be near or have those facial features. Abercrombie models are best example.

According to scientific evolution theory, we find things attractive because they would create good situations for having offspring and carrying on your genetic and racial line, eg. it would be natural for men to find shapely women attractive - a wide waste for an uncomplicated birth, large mammory glands to provide the offspring with enough milk, etc, so perhaps there is a superiority of an "Aryan" look after all. :P

I understand what you mean and your stance, but what has been said regarding Aryan features to be a keen attribute in many areas across the world has some resemblence to the Nazi myth of an ancient Aryan empire.

According to scientific evolution theory, we find things attractive because they would create good situations for having offspring and carrying on your genetic and racial line, eg. it would be natural for men to find shapely women attractive - a wide waste for an uncomplicated birth, large mammory glands to provide the offspring with enough milk, etc, so perhaps there is a superiority of an "Aryan" look after all. :P

I understand what you mean and your stance, but what has been said regarding Aryan features to be a keen attribute in many areas across the world has some resemblence to the Nazi myth of an ancient Aryan empire.

Not necessarily... there is a certain inbuilt drive for diversification as well, to prevent the gene-pool stagnating. Hence, different cultures seem to find others attractive. Plus, the observed rarification aspect - whereby people become more attracted to the people they spend time in proximity with.

I think it's just an observation that blondes seem to have more fun, commercially. I don't think that anyone seriously puts any faith in the nazi mythology.

I think it's just an observation that blondes seem to have more fun, commercially. I don't think that anyone seriously puts any faith in the nazi mythology.

Especially when you consider that the Aryans weren't blonde and didn't have blue eyes. If you want to see Aryan features, look at an Iranian. Same thing.

Is this thread supposed to have a rhetoric of the myth of an Aryan super-empire that stretched across Eurasia, as believed by the Nazis?

And what's this that some people believe that we are cultural heirs of the ancient Egyptians? What a ridiculous proposition. Either that or hot air.

Like it or not, if you live in a western or westernised society, you are the product of many influences... some genetic, some cultural, some historical.

If you live in a western society:

1) Your laws are based on those of Babylon, but reprocessed through the mosaic texts.
2) Your legal system is based on that of Rome, probably almost exactly as it was left by the empire.
3) Your political system is most likely based, to some extent, on the fledgling democracy of Greece, or the republic of Rome.
4) Your art is likely a bastardisation of Egyptian, Greek and Roman concepts - often skewed by an evolution in non-European countries for a while.
5) Your language is the product of one or more root-languages, which have ground the rough-edges off of each other for the last few thousand years.
6) Your science is based on the Egyptian model, and your math on the Babylonian model.

etc. etc. the list goes on...

or maybe you think Europe just fell onto the world, one clear and starless night...

No, just stating the fact that blond haired blue eyed people are considered very attractive by the majority in our society, and with those chiseled facial features. Trying to figure out why. Look at models in magazines, most will be near or have those facial features. Abercrombie models are best example.

Nothing wrong with blondes, but I personally prefer darker hair.

I like any hair color. It's in the personality and the overall picture. I won't just take a hottie who is dumb and without a good personality.

This is all on a primative subconcious level in us but I heard it was because blond hair/blue eyes were resessive genes so the father would be able to see his traits in the children so not end up looking after someone elses children.

The United States, along with Western Civilization seems to have embraced for many years the seemingly Nazi idea of the blond hair, blue eyed, muscular man with sharp chiseled statuesque features or the thin woman, with blond hair, and blue eyes. Statistics show that the majority of blonds in the US are in fact dyed blonds. Why do we still hold this image of perfection? It is in our magazines, the image of the model, Bradd Pitt, etc. Perhaps this was a pre-Nazi idea of perfection as well, and the myth creators just happened to tap into people's asthetic perception. But why does this seem to be the image of perfection? I have read something that interestingly says it is because the facial features are asymmetrical, and that it broadly appeals to everyone. Such as a work of art like the Taj Mahal is universally appreciated, and many humans can judge what is beautiful and what is not. Is this how this physical image perfection works? Or perhaps it is cultural?

Or in the case of other races, it is the same statuesque chisled features, Roman nose, muscular build, etc. etc.

Angels are most often depicted this way as well, with blond hair, blue eyes, and these "perfect" features etc.

Both are mutant genes that did not appear in the original human DNA. Thus, it set the individual apart as something almost higher as their eyes were clearer and easier to read and their hair made them more noticable.

Blonde is not a recessive gene. Hair color is a polygenic thing I'm pretty sure. Otherwise how did I end up with blonde hair when neither of my parents had it.

Blonde is not a recessive gene. Hair color is a polygenic thing I'm pretty sure. Otherwise how did I end up with blonde hair when neither of my parents had it.

I assume you're a girl since you describe yourself as 'blonde' and not 'blond'.

Blonde is recessive, which is why neither parent can have it.
Say that dark hair gene is B and blonde hair gene is b.
Dark hair can be gene combination BB or Bb.
Blonde can only be bb.
Therefore both your parents are Bb dark hair and have given you the b gene to make you bb blonde hair.

On that note it seems even some of the pictures of the Pharoahs, the statues, seem to give them these same sharp facial features, sometimes high cheekbones (think?), etc. It seems the standard cross-cultural noble features.


Most of those pharaohs changed their features on the pictures and sculptures. Very few of them actually had figures that were true images of themselves. Instead of showing the big lips and nose, they were depicted as having more European features.

Most of those pharaohs changed their features on the pictures and sculptures. Very few of them actually had figures that were true images of themselves. Instead of showing the big lips and nose, they were depicted as having more European features.

Right, and those features they aspired to measure this "perfect" aspiration.

I have read something that interestingly says it is because the facial features are asymmetrical, and that it broadly appeals to everyone. Such as a work of art like the Taj Mahal is universally appreciated...

facial symmetry is linked to a superior immune system. so its really an evolved instinct that most people find symmetrical features attractive. and it's not surprising that blue or green eyes are considered more attractive then brown ones, since bright colours are often more attractive then dull ones. personally though, i don't find blond hair all that appealing, i tend to associate blond hair with classical features, ie round eyes and eyebrows well above the sockets, since the ancient greeks considered blond hair attractive.

This is because the Aryans were idiots. They taught the fear of the body in that if you weren't like that you were inferior. You can look around you, there is constant pressure to be skinnier, to have bigger asses and breasts. It's all about being scared of your own body, constantly scared it isn't good enough. This makes our souls weak. This is the reason Western Culture, which is so heavily influenced by the Xian Churches - who seek to suppress and oppress - is obsessed with blond, blue and skinny.

The United States, along with Western Civilization seems to have embraced for many years the seemingly Nazi idea of the blond hair, blue eyed, muscular man with sharp chiseled statuesque features or the thin woman, with blond hair, and blue eyes. Statistics show that the majority of blonds in the US are in fact dyed blonds. Why do we still hold this image of perfection? It is in our magazines, the image of the model, Bradd Pitt, etc. Perhaps this was a pre-Nazi idea of perfection as well, and the myth creators just happened to tap into people's asthetic perception. But why does this seem to be the image of perfection? I have read something that interestingly says it is because the facial features are asymmetrical, and that it broadly appeals to everyone. Such as a work of art like the Taj Mahal is universally appreciated, and many humans can judge what is beautiful and what is not. Is this how this physical image perfection works? Or perhaps it is cultural?

Or in the case of other races, it is the same statuesque chisled features, Roman nose, muscular build, etc. etc.

Angels are most often depicted this way as well, with blond hair, blue eyes, and these "perfect" features etc.



Gee Aerion (or should that be Aryan?), perhaps all this shows is that Hitler never had an original thought in his warped mind, just that he couldn't help but take things to extremes.

Gee Aerion (or should that be Aryan?), perhaps all this shows is that Hitler never had an original thought in his warped mind, just that he couldn't help but take things to extremes.

It is definitely not Aryan. Aerion is just the name I chose because I just randomly picked it.. Most of my friends are African-American in fact, and I have dated people of different races. But I find amongst all of them that the chiseled athletic look, such that fashion models have, is the standard of attractiveness. Even among Latino and African-Americans, these same chiseled sharp facial features are considered perfection.

It is definitely not Aryan. Aerion is just the name I chose because I just randomly picked it.. Most of my friends are African-American in fact, and I have dated people of different races. But I find amongst all of them that the chiseled athletic look, such that fashion models have, is the standard of attractiveness. Even among Latino and African-Americans, these same chiseled sharp facial features are considered perfection.


OK, searching back to some of your previous threads I will take your word on that. Hope you understand the logical leap the mind makes between the phonetics of your name under the circumstances of this thread.

As you note, this is a cross-cultural phenominon, and as many have noted it certainly predates the Nazi era. So I would simply infer that Adolph might have institutionalized a common biological phenominon - being attracted to people who display physical characteristics we associate with health, stretngh, etc - rather than try to find a cultural tie to the Third Reich.

blonde hair/blue eyes is the california look in advertising. its young, athletic and rich appearing. it comes and goes out of fashion.

blonde hair has been "the thing" to change the color of your hair to (for women) since the 60s with clairol's "blondes have more fun" campaign
(before then only tarts bleached their hair).

blonde hair/blue eyes is a norhtern european thing. like, ohhhhh, the british who colonized america. its a WASP look.

chiseled features is a european thing too. it also emphasizes masculinity over femininity, making a model appear more sexy.

while the young pop star and actresses seem to be mostly blonde, older models and actresses are often brunette or redhead.

and

i love the color of my hair that i dye blonde or light red every month or so. it beats the mousy brown and grey that i have naturally.

I get what you are saying Aerion

Its odd how ideals of beauty haven't changed increadably over thousands of years.

I'm sure anti-semitism and racism has lots to do with it, but for now, its the mass media.

um. i know a ton of jews with blonde hair and blue eyes?