NationStates Jolt Archive

This isn't done that often, and I wanted to ask all atheists what their argument for the non-existance of God is. This thread is for the purpose of debating the As and it is assumed why religion is wrong. I don't mean this in an insiduating manner, I hope this won't decend into flaming.

This isn't done that often, and I wanted to ask all atheists what their argument for the non-existance of God is. This thread is for the purpose of debating the As and it is assumed why religion is wrong. I don't mean this in an insiduating manner, I hope this won't decend into flaming.

If it's about Athiests, then why did you inclucde the agnostics?

The universe and everything within it is much to complex for anything to have created US as its prominant being.

Aside from that, it is ignorant of anyone to say god doesn't exist, as science cannot prove or disprove its existance.

But, its pretty safe to say that none of the modern religions have it right.

Why include the agnostics?!

Because we're cooler than the athiests!

I am a Agnostic and I have never really understood Atheism.

To make the statment "There is not a god" would indicate that you know or belive you know everything.

However if you change the statment to "I belive there is no god" then you have a faith. You have faith there is no god.

Shrug. I don't know if there is a "god", I belive it to be unlikely. But until I have more proof I will simply state. "There may be a god, but I do not think it likely"

Why include the agnostics?!

Because we're cooler than the athiests!
Deism > *
That said, I'm agnostic leaning deist, if that's even possible, unless there's yet ANOTHER term for that.

Its Science as Religion

you should specify wich agnostics you mean, the true agnostics or the new-age version who took the name

you should specify wich agnostics you mean, the true agnostics or the new-age version who took the name

???

Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Agnosticism is basically unsureness of a deity, might power, etc. thereof god, and is saying that you don't know if a god exists, but you do not deny it. I am an Agnostic, and seeing that an Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, that means they are saying they KNOW if a god exists, which isn't possible for us to know yet. So, I say Agnosticism makes more sense and is much more practical than Atheism, not that it is BETTER.

This isn't done that often, and I wanted to ask all atheists what their argument for the non-existance of God is.
The same for leprechauns, pixies, elves, unicorns, etc.: no extension in reality. And even further: no coherent definition.

I would agree that none of the modern religions have it right, they are all to caught up in dogma to seek the truth. I don't know if there is a Creator in the proper sense, as in a supreme being, but I think that there is an energy that guides the universe.
Perhaps that energy is the collective unconscious of all life, ebbing, flowing, drifting, organizing, breaking down & building again.
Evolution is not likely driven by pure random chance, it's just not feasible that some of the specialized equipment that some animals have was created by random mutations. Bats for example, with the sonar system. Or how the giraffes & the trees they eat are constantly upgrading to keep up (first the trees got taller, the giraffes did too. then they got thorns, so the giraffes got long tongues. then the trees would emit a toxin when they got nibbled on, so the giraffes would nibble a bit & move on to the next tree. then the trees began sending chemical sigals to each other at the first sign of a feast, so all the trees would emit the toxin simultainiously...etc). So I don't know if there is a GOD, so to speak, but definately something that drives us. Even if it's just a higher form of our collective selves.

The only reason people made up God in the first place was so they had an excuse to believe humans were more important than everything else. Atheism is the complete opposite of not believing, because atheists believe in something that has a higher probablility of being true than what Agnostics and theists believe.

I am a Agnostic and I have never really understood Atheism.

To make the statment "There is not a god" would indicate that you know or belive you know everything.
Ok, let's look at this:

"To make the statement 'There are no square circles' would indicate that you know or believe you know everything."

Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't.

"There is no god" is of the same thing: it relies on definitional analysis to show that there is...no god.

The universe is a vast and wonderous place.

Sure, there's no proof for god, but there isn't really proof against it either.

That's why atheists piss me off; they tend to be just as self-rightous as many religious fundamentalists (sometimes even more so).

Ok, let's look at this:

"To make the statement 'There are no square circles' would indicate that you know or believe you know everything."

Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't.

"There is no god" is of the same thing: it relies on definitional analysis to show that there is...no god.


Firstly, when you make the statement "There is no god", you are only stating the fact or your belief of the fact that, "there is no god" AND ONLY THAT.

If you just state that simply, you are not claiming to be omnipotent at all.

And second, there ARE squre circles. If you go beyond the simplistic Euclidean gemoetry of two dimensions, and go into four dimensional geometry (i,j,k,1), and use the 1 as a scalar quantity, you can see that a circle, drawn on a hyperplane with some distortion factor, can be square, yet still a circle.

It's all in how you look at it.

I believe there is no god because, if there was, he would not allow so many different religions. And if there is ONE god, there cannot be MANY gods, and no one would believe in many gods, much less different gods. If there was an omnipotent higher power, there wouldn't be any confusion or disagreement about it. He'd make sure we all knew.

This is not the same thing as saying I KNOW there is no god. This is not agnosticism, either. I don't believe we can't know anything and I am not committed to nothing. And it isn't self-righteous. I dislike religion but firmly believe everyone has the right to be religious if they wish.

An interesting point: Isn't anyone who refers to their religion as a faith, or refers to their religious beliefs expressing an agnostic point of view? They're basically saying they don't know whether God exists or not, they just believe what they're being told.

Atheists and Theists on the other hand are the extremes. They've taken a view and concede no doubt on the issues. No matter what they say, this is different from having strong faith- I strongly believe my files ALWAYS saves when I press ctrl+s, I don't pretend to know, which is why I do it a couple of times when I want to save.

The question of God as posed by religion is by it's very definition beyond us to ascertain- whether the actual question is beyond us completely is moot and irrelevant until someone suggests a viable and reliable way of answering it one way or the other.