NationStates Jolt Archive

Why do many Christians condemn others, and ignore the teaching of Love? I hear preachers telling people that their going to hell for this or that, but not speaking about love. Many Christian men want to follow the tough social unemotional strongman image, when Jesus was quiet the opposite. Why talk all about sin, and going to hell instead of also equally talking about Love? Is there something missing here? When you mention some sin, people are quick to perk up, and condemn instead of undertsanding we are all human . But when one talks about the teachings of love in the Bible, such as "love your enemy", people commonly use the excuse that we are "all human" and that is why they find it "hard" to follow this teaching...

Quotes from Bible about love


According to Jesus:
"On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

He answered: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself."

"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
Luke 10:25-28, NIV



You have heard it was said, "Eye for eye and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be the sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on teh righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48, NIV

...honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 19:19, NIV

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Matthew 22:36-40, NIV

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this:'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Mark 12:28-31, NIV


But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.... Luke 6:27, NIV

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even "sinners" love those who love them. Luke 6:32, NIV

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
Luke 6:35, NIV

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciplines, if you love one another. John 13:34-35, NIV

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. John 15:12-13, NIV

And Paul says:

The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandments there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:9-10, NIV

The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Galatians 5:14, NIV

But the man who loves God is known by God. 1 Corinthians 8:3, NIV

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1 Corinthians 13:1-4, NIV

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 1 Corinthians, 13:6 NIV

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will tease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 1 Corinthians 13:18, NIV

And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:13, NIV

Do everything in love. 1 Corinthians 16:14, NIV

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6, NIV

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:1-2, NIV

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:12-14, NIV

And James:

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. James 2:8, NIV

Peter:

Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers; love one another deeply, from the heart. 1 Peter 1:22, NIV

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8, NIV

And John

This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 1 John 3:11

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 1 John 3:14, NIV

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down is life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:16-18

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 1 John 4:7, NIV

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:8, NIV

Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 1 John 4:11-12, NIV

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16, NIV

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18, NIV

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. 1 John 4:20-21, NIV

And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:5-6, NIV.

agree. those who only focus on the wrath and justice of God will never see Him entirely the way He is.

It's going to be amusing to see all the religious folk from the "OMG WE HATE GAYS" threads flocking here to claim they 'love their neighbours'.

Maybe I can start a tally and throw in some quotes from them all....

On the other hand though, it's quotes like that that prevent me from actually having anything against Christianity. If even 20% of Christians followed that pathway, the world would be a much better place.

It's going to be amusing to see all the religious folk from the "OMG WE HATE GAYS" threads flocking here to claim they 'love their neighbours'.

Maybe I can start a tally and throw in some quotes from them all....

On the other hand though, it's quotes like that that prevent me from actually having anything against Christianity. If even 20% of Christians followed that pathway, the world would be a much better place.

hey hey, christians are not gods - they can have their own feelings and sentiments too, based on their own cultural and historical backgrounds. i myself, being Christian, would protest against personal attacks and insults to people in general - it's the sin we have to combat, not the person.

hey hey, christians are not gods - they can have their own feelings and sentiments too, based on their own cultural and historical backgrounds. i myself, being Christian, would protest against personal attacks and insults to people in general - it's the sin we have to combat, not the person.

Seems so often Christians seem to combat all the other sins, and not the seeming sin of Hate.

hey Aerion, I left a post in the other thread... hmm, I forgot which one already (not enough sleep lately :p) ...

You're turning out to be a lot more like my *intelligent* religious friends, and I'd like you to read that post if you have a chance, since it hopefully explains some stuff :D.

Seems so often Christians seem to combat all the other sins, and not the seeming sin of Hate.

too bad about that, really. i really want to apologise on their behalf, even if i can't. there's nothing more i hate in the world than hate itself. it blinds people, making them do completely irrational things, and yet it does nothing to solve problems, only to enhance it.

nevertheless, the fundamental value of christianity is LOVE. love all around. so don't be put off by what some do, but be attracted by the words of the Holy Book.

Why do many Christians condemn others, and ignore the teaching of Love?

I'd say that all the condemning is done out of a deep rooted fear for anything that they are unfamiliar with. And I doubt many Christians are sincere in their belief. More likely that they became Christians only because they were too weak to resist the peer pressure that dictated that you had to be a Christian or evoke their personal wrath. As a result they are basically ignorant of Christ's teachings because they never were genuinly interested in studying and upholding Christ's teachings, that or they don't give a rat's ass to show themselves as total hypocrites.

I'd say that all the condemning is done out of a deep rooted fear for anything that they are unfamiliar with. And I doubt many Christians are sincere in their belief. More likely that they became Christians only because they were too weak to resist the peer pressure that dictated that you had to be a Christian or evoke their personal wrath. As a result they are basically ignorant of Christ's teachings because they never were genuinly interested in studying and upholding Christ's teachings, that or they don't give a rat's ass to show themselves as total hypocrites.

I agree. Too often is a pretty decent religion or ideal fucked up because some guy wanted a higher power to support his own bigotry or ignorance. I'd like to paraphrase Christ here. Ahem. "Please... PLEASE... Can't you people just be NICE to each other???"

I love everyone!

Except everyone non christian. YOUR GOING TO hell DEVILS! HELL! I SAY!


Grrrowlll fucking people....

This thread needs to be read by every Christian here on NS, particularly those with conservative right-wing leanings.

I myself am a Christian, and a Communist. I find that right-wing political views are simply incompatible with Christ's message.

In the bible, isn't jobe or someone taunted and teased by children?

And does not God, in his infinite love, send bears to maul and destroy these children?

can you feel the love!

lol@christians

if you give love to those who do not deserve it (i.e. those who wish to hurt you, abuse others, etc), then of what value is your love? loving everybody as you love yourself only devalues your love, and makes it an insult rather than a blessing to anyone who receives it.

if you give love to those who do not deserve it (i.e. those who wish to hurt you, abuse others, etc), then of what value is your love? loving everybody as you love yourself only devalues your love, and makes it an insult rather than a blessing to anyone who receives it.

I suppose it depends on whether you feel that the value of your love is decided by other people or not. If it's sincerely given, what more can you say? I think it is a magnificent ideal, although I think it would lead to a short life.

In moral terms, though, how much blame can you assign to the abuser, and how much to the victim? if the victim does not protest or resist, are they at fault? Can you blame them, when the abuser is the one committing the abuse? Is there a moral imperative to resist abuse, or is it up to the abusers to stop their behaviour?

Bible quotes.

if you give love to those who do not deserve it (i.e. those who wish to hurt you, abuse others, etc), then of what value is your love? loving everybody as you love yourself only devalues your love, and makes it an insult rather than a blessing to anyone who receives it.
I suppose you missed the whole "love thy enemies and turn the other cheek" part, haven't you?

Whilst not Really adding to the discusion

Amen to that!
on a more serious note

A few of my more right wing friends would argue that by condeming them (sinners) that by condeming them (showing them the errors) they do that through love so they are fine.

Also i have been asked by a newly converted (through the evangelical part of the church) Do you find it hard to relate to your non-christian friends now you are a christian?
my reply "(a confused) no"

Paul in Phillipians states that christians should "act as a shining light which should attract other peoples"
Is it best to do so by living the christian life or by critisism of other peoples?

Paul in Phillipians states that christians should "act as a shining light which should attract other peoples"
Is it best to do so by living the christian life or by critisism of other peoples?

What did Jesus do? People have all these "WWJD" bracelets, tags, etc. Well what would he do? How did he act? He acted in a loving manner, he did not condemn, and he seemed to embrace all. He exercised "self-discipline", avoided temptation, but he did not criticize others for their sins or short failings. So obviously be a shining light to others. I would think a Christian, according to the Bible, should attempt self-discipline and to restrain themselves from sin (Which many sins are indicated out of common sense just so we do not hurt others or ourselves), to live by example, and spread Love rather than criticize others short comings ALL THE TIME.

Its funny how the teachings of christ fall very, very close to the teachings of buddah

love is radical
hate is status quo

having anyone actually follow the teachings of jesus is way too dangerous to promote in church

Thats why the vatican holds onto those dead sea scrolls nice and tight

Just wanting more to see these lovely parables, and Christians to read them.

You forget the people just like to pick and choose quotes that go along with what their own personal views. Some people would call them butchers of the bible. But butchers tend to only cut out and throw away the fatty filling, bones, cartilage, and well anything that isn’t of any nourishing substance. These people on the other hand act more like poachers. They kill something and only take the parts they want leaving the rest of it behind. Bible Poachers I believe is a more suitable name for them.

"Belief in a cruel god makes cruel people"

Paine :D

Why do many Christians condemn others, and ignore the teaching of Love? I hear preachers telling people that their going to hell for this or that, but not speaking about love.

Good question. This is why I refuse to tie myself to any particular denomination. Almost all of them do this. And the quotes are great, I'd just like to point out something about one of them:


You have heard it was said, "Eye for eye and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you." Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

This is one of the worst interpreted passages from Christ in the NT. Although it does tie into the "love your enemy rather than causing him harm" side of things, there is actually much more to it. Although by our social standards it may not, every one of these instructions represents a form of passive resistance. Basically, what Christ is saying is not to hit back in a violent way, but to non-violently stand up to oppression.

Before anyone asks for an explanation, I'll give a brief one:

Generally, when being struck (especially as a servant or slave), one was backhanded, rather than hit straight on. To slap someone or punch them was to admit they were on social par with you and thus allow them to fight back. However, another interesting thing is that you were absolutely not allowed to touch another human being with your left hand. Thus, if someone backhanded you across the right cheek and you turned your head so that your left side was facing them - they could not hit you without admitting you were on the same social status!

In Jesus' society, nudity was seen as embarrassing to the person who saw it, not to the nude person. Thus, if someone took you to court and asked for your outer garment and you also gave them your inner garment, you were shaming the person and everyone involved in the proceedings.

And the walking a mile thing refers to Roman soldiers. A Roman soldier could make any peasant carry his pack for exactly one mile. However, if he made that person carry it further, or was caught having someone carry it further, he was severely punished.

So basically, all of these things were ways to stand up to the person persecuting you, without actually resorting to physical violence.

I agree with nonviolent resistance, Gahndi had a lot of good sayings on it.

Still pointing these out..

Generally, when being struck (especially as a servant or slave), one was backhanded, rather than hit straight on. To slap someone or punch them was to admit they were on social par with you and thus allow them to fight back. However, another interesting thing is that you were absolutely not allowed to touch another human being with your left hand. Thus, if someone backhanded you across the right cheek and you turned your head so that your left side was facing them - they could not hit you without admitting you were on the same social status!

In Jesus' society, nudity was seen as embarrassing to the person who saw it, not to the nude person. Thus, if someone took you to court and asked for your outer garment and you also gave them your inner garment, you were shaming the person and everyone involved in the proceedings.

And the walking a mile thing refers to Roman soldiers. A Roman soldier could make any peasant carry his pack for exactly one mile. However, if he made that person carry it further, or was caught having someone carry it further, he was severely punished.

So basically, all of these things were ways to stand up to the person persecuting you, without actually resorting to physical violence.

Hm..very very interesting. this still strikes the balance of being just and loving at the same time.

Well most people including preachers do not read there bible or live by it enough. One problem probably the largest one is that people still use the king james bible which really is in another language its just so close the english that we speak now that we can decipher it. However people for the most part cant understand what it is saying people need something like The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Its the same message its just put in a way that we can understand theres no thy or thos or whatever there might be. Because people cant understand the bible they slowly develop beliefs such as jesus is actually god and the trinity, and hell. The bible absolutely says that when you die to dust you were and to dust you will return. You just die, you dont go to hell if your a sinner, which is also funny cause the same religions that believe in a hell also believe that god forgives all our sins... if both of these were true then no one would be in hell cause god forgave them all no matter what. Also christmas is not jesus' birthday for one the sheperd had his sheep out, at this time it is to cold to have sheep out in the fields. Read something like the worldbook encyclopedia christmas was founded over a pagan celebration of the sun. Also people that only have a religion because thats what there parents brought them up believeing.

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game
It's easy.
There's nothing you can make that can't be made.
No one you can save that can't be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be in time
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
There's nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
All you need is love (all together now)
All you need is love (everybody)
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
http://www.adlerandco.com/animation/images/yellowsub/love.gif

if you give love to those who do not deserve it (i.e. those who wish to hurt you, abuse others, etc), then of what value is your love? loving everybody as you love yourself only devalues your love, and makes it an insult rather than a blessing to anyone who receives it.

There's a quote from the movie Adaptation that I really like: We are what we love, not what loves us.

The fundamental difference is a starting concept: The idea that everyone deserves love. The fundamental question is: What do you mean when you say "love".

When I was an athiest, I referred to this as empathy and it was an acknowledgement that, on a very basic level, the simple fact that we are all here, right now, and aware of it is an amazing thing. That fact alone is deserving of a certain baseline of respect and an honest effort to develop connections with all people, if only because random chance has given us this opportunity. I acknowledge that, because I myself had questioned, it was reasonable and rational to assume that others questioned also and that, in order for my questions to be taken seriously, I had to take theirs seriously. I didn't have to agree with them, but I did at least have to make an honest attempt at understanding them and their conclusions and the knowledge base that they drew on to reach them.

When I acknowledged that my personal athiesm was based more on rebellion than any particular notion of the nature of God I had, and began to dip my toe back into theistic thought, I discovered a remarkable correspondence between my notions of empathy and the fundamental ideal of religious "love". Admittedly, this was made easier by the religious institution I finally chose to embrace whole-heartedly, but the idea that divinity is inherantly included in all of us and, therefore, we are all deserving of respect, understanding and "love" paralleled my own beliefs very neatly and encouraged me to believe that I had found something "true", a firm starting place from which to explore my spirituality and faith further, both in a rational way as well as in a metaphysical way.

By "loving" in a religious way, I don't demean that love or that empathy, I acknowledge it in the way I would like to have others acknowledge it in me. I admit to a fundamental bond between all of us, even those of us who have made choices and decisions that I am frankly incapable of understanding, and I respect that bond and work to emphasize it, rather than the separations between us.

In a way, I think this is the only true and good thing religion can hope to accomplish. It can't "prove" God exists or tell us what happens when we die. Not really. But it can make us remember things we forget. We spend our entire lives differentiating ourselves from the world and the people around us, building walls to keep what's "us" in and what's "other" out. This is perfectly normal and understandable and an intrinsic part of the experience of being alive and aware of it. However, it present's it's own dangers if those walls become too high. It can make us forget that others are just as much "people" as we are, that they have their own "us". Religion can and should be a way to remind ourselves that on a very basic, primal, level, we are all connected, even if only through the incredible chance that we are here and we know it.

The greatest gift that God gave us all, was the gift of love.

Someone once said to me, that love and hate cannot reside in the same house. I believe that more, each waking day.

When I saw the Dahli Lama in Toronto, he simply stated that "the destruction of our enemies is the destruction of ourselves", and I can find the wisdom in those words.

Have a good day, unless you have made other plans?

Since the thread title says "Bible", I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring...

First, a little clarification on eye for an eye: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye

The phrase "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" expresses a form of retributive justice also known as lex talionis (Latin, 'law of retaliation'). It may have originated in ancient near-Eastern and Middle Eastern law, such as Babylonian law.

In societies not bound by the rule of law, if a person was hurt, then the injured person (or their relative) would take vengeful retribution on the person who caused the injury. Often the retribution would be much worse than the crime; it was often death. Babylonian law put a limit on such actions, restricting the retribution to be no worse than the crime.

In the Hebrew Bible, God issues many denunciations of ancient near-Eastern morality and law; the Torah (Exodus 21:24) offers its own statement of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Read in its historical context, this seems not be encouraging retributive justice, but is rather setting forth a commandment that punishments must be no more worse than the crime, giving as an example "an eye for eye, or a tooth for a tooth". This verse probably was meant to serve as a limitation on what kind of response the injured party could give.

Lex talionis in Judaism

The oral law of Judaism holds that this verse was never meant to be followed literally. The rabbis of the Talmud ask, "How can any person be certain that the punishment they inflict is definitely no worse than the initial injury?" They answer that this is impossible to carry out in practice. Therefore, they conclude that to follow the spirit of this law, it must be interpreted as applying to financial damages that are commensurate with the severity of the crime.

The Oral Law explains that what is meant is a sophisticated five-part monetary form of compensation, consisting of payment for "Damages, Pain, Medical Expenses, Incapacitation, and Mental Anguish" - which underlie many modern legal codes - and that the expression, "An eye for an eye, etc." means that that is what the perpetrator deserves, if not for the mercy of the Torah and its Author. Aginst this, some argue that the Torah is intended to be taken literally, because it says, "Do not take a ransom for the life of a Murderer, who is wicked to the extent that he must die". In other words, for the murderer, there is no monetary amount that is sufficient to grant him atonement in the eyes of God, and only payment with his life will secure that atonement. For other forms of injury, however, the criminal must pay a huge sum, as a ransom for his eye, hand, or foot; and as atonement, which is intended to make him a poor man for his terrible crime.

In other cases, an exact retaliation is practically impossible. For example, suppose a blind person damaged the eye of another. It would then be impossible to demand "an eye for an eye"? (Babylonian Talmud, tractate Bava Kama 84a).

Criticisms

Most Christians see the New Testament as superior to the Hebrew Bible, and have traditionally read many of the laws in the Hebrew Bible as outdated or immoral. Outside of the Jewish community, the Christian view of the Hebrew Bible has become standard for many non-Christians. As such, many non-Christians have a critical view of the Hebrew Bible's conception of justice, and also of rabbinic Judaism's concept of justice. One example of this point of view is the quote "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" by Mohandas Gandhi.

Those who disagree with this view note that it is a Christian interpretation of the commandment, which assumes that the directive encourages bloody retributive justice. Since the original intent was to limit retribution, the criticism is held to be misinformed and invalid.

Second, Jesus' "greatest commandment" is actually itself a paraphrase (or rip-off, depending on your POV ;) ) of earlier Jewish sages:

The Talmud tells that a gentile came to Shammai saying that he would convert to Judaism if Shammai could teach him the whole Torah in the time that he could stand on one foot. Shammai drove him away with a builder's measuring stick! Hillel, on the other hand, converted the gentile by telling him, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."

Another rabbi, Akiva, said that "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18), was "a great principle" (or "greatest") of the Torah.

Some further discussion here, if anyone's interested: http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter4-15.html

Some Christians forget who they are being transformed into. By the way. I don't think one Testament is better than the other. I believe both are intricately linked together. Without the Old Testament the New Testament would have no basis. I guess for now I am not going to box myself in to this meaningless arguement.

Great points made

bump

Any religion that does not accept that its greatest acheivment is the ability to love all of mankind is a false religion in my eyes.

Christianity was founded on a Progressive peace-nik Jewish hippie who would send most Evangelists the "other way" ... but they'll never recognize that.

Doesn't matter, though ... (Listen now to "You Can't Bring Me Down" by Suicidal Tendencies) ... in the end, all you need is love.

It's nice hearing from a Christian who seems to completely grasp the idea of extended fellowship. We don't have to agree with each other to love one another. Only through loving one another can we ever hope to understand each other's point of view and come to agreement.

"This book is subject to copyright and may not be distributed, reproduced or retranslated without express written consent"

Apparently it was on the original cover...we must obey the holy copyright commandment of the publisher.

"This book is subject to copyright and may not be distributed, reproduced or retranslated without express written consent"

Apparently it was on the original cover...we must obey the holy copyright commandment of the publisher.
No I think it's still on the last page. Written with a little more punch though.

Why do many Christians condemn others, and ignore the teaching of Love? I hear preachers telling people that their going to hell for this or that, but not speaking about love. Many Christian men want to follow the tough social unemotional strongman image, when Jesus was quiet the opposite. Why talk all about sin, and going to hell instead of also equally talking about Love? Is there something missing here? When you mention some sin, people are quick to perk up, and condemn instead of undertsanding we are all human . But when one talks about the teachings of love in the Bible, such as "love your enemy", people commonly use the excuse that we are "all human" and that is why they find it "hard" to follow this teaching...

It's not an easy path to follow, that's for sure--but I do believe that striving to follow it is essential. Even though I might not necessarily (to be a little silly) walk up to a person who has just slapped me and give him/her a kiss, I think it's of the utmost importance to make sure I don't let hate get a foothold in my heart. I don't always succeed at this, of course. Still, I think it's at least better to make a sincere, hardworking effort than to decide that just because I will fail sometimes (human nature) then it's not worth trying at all. That would be a real shame, I think. As for who goes to heaven and hell, even when I think I might have a vague idea, I just about always remind myself--I don't have the wisdom or the knowledge to really answer that. I do think there should be more talk of love. At least when I am home with my family and go to their church, there is a lot of talk about it, but I guess it's not that way everywhere.

Its funny how the teachings of christ fall very, very close to the teachings of buddah

There was a topic on the Old Forums called "Was Jesus a Buddhist?"

Indeed, there have been books written comparing the two.

Suggest people who want us to believe Christianity has anything to do with love pay attention to the planks in their eyes and the whitewashed tombs and all that. And leave us alone till you get it sorted out.

We know you by your fruits, and you can't disguise the taste with words and justifications.

Suggest people who want us to believe Christianity has anything to do with love pay attention to the planks in their eyes and the whitewashed tombs and all that. And leave us alone till you get it sorted out.

We know you by your fruits, and you can't disguise the taste with words and justifications.

Nowhere would I ever claim I perfectly practice what I "preach". Like any person I screw up. And for that there isn't any excuse. I fail continually, but it won't stop me from trying to be better.

I think you'd find a lot of Christians will tell you that. Please bear it in mind before you broadbrush an entire group.

if you give love to those who do not deserve it (i.e. those who wish to hurt you, abuse others, etc), then of what value is your love? loving everybody as you love yourself only devalues your love, and makes it an insult rather than a blessing to anyone who receives it.
Then again, if you approach it from the attitude that there is no one who does not deserve your love, then it has equal value for everyone you give it to --lover or stranger. This is a *good* thing.

This thread needs to be read by every Christian here on NS, particularly those with conservative right-wing leanings.

I myself am a Christian, and a Communist. I find that right-wing political views are simply incompatible with Christ's message.

you have no clue what your talking about.

you have no clue what your talking about.

so what parts of the religious right's political platform fit in any way with the known teachings of jesus?

I do not think Jesus would endorse ANY of the available political platforms in this world, as all of the ones we have are flawed in concept AND in execution. I don't think any political party can claim Jesus' unequivocal support any more than the other.

*snort*

Jesus is superior to all our stupid political platforms. If humans were perfect, no politics is needed.

Just spreading the truth

bump

Hey! I love this! Thank you Jesus!

Great points here, just remembered I posted this when I was going to post something like it.

I hope this message gets through to certain people, it is really important.

Jesus was so clear in his message, and yet we here quiet a different message from many churches. We see very very different actions. Why is this message not beign emphasized? I believe it is very very serious.

If the majority of brothers and sisters in Christ take their faith seriously, and the Bible then they should be studying these words deeply. They should look in their own lives to see what contradicts what Christ prescribed.

It is obvious that the religion known as Christianity today has drifted quiet a bit from what the man himself, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, spoke of.

Just while we were on the subject in IRC

On the other hand though, it's quotes like that that prevent me from actually having anything against Christianity. If even 20% of Christians followed that pathway, the world would be a much better place.

How do you know they arent?

I apologise if this seems flippiant but you have nothing to back the idea that they arent. Have you considered that generalising Christians as the right wing extremeists that some of them are that your not exactly helping the situation

I hope this message gets through to certain people, it is really important.

Jesus was so clear in his message, and yet we here quiet a different message from many churches. We see very very different actions. Why is this message not beign emphasized? I believe it is very very serious.

If the majority of brothers and sisters in Christ take their faith seriously, and the Bible then they should be studying these words deeply. They should look in their own lives to see what contradicts what Christ prescribed.

It is obvious that the religion known as Christianity today has drifted quiet a bit from what the man himself, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, spoke of.

I am sorry but I simply do not believe this is true

Yes there are some people who are right wing extremists who preach hate. But the fact of the matter is that the avarage Christian is living outside of Europe or America and speeking a non European language. So getting your idea of Christians from Europe or America is very flawed. You may have an over Americanised view of Christians. Being a British Christian, I know that my faith, and the faith of those around me is deeply introspective. And furthermore, as a non Christian claiming that Christians should be more loving and less judging, it strikes me as extremely hypocritical that you would judge all Christians as not being loving enough

Bump

Just wanting more to see these lovely parables, and Christians to read them. Nothing so blind as eyes that do not see. Or whatever the phrase is…