NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it just me or is it suddenly hip and trendy to hate America? You're nobody if you don't loathe those capitalist pigs! I mean, really.

Yeah. America has done some pretty fucked up shit, granted. Who hasn't?

I've seen so many people bitch about how America treats the world like its child or colony, expecting everyone to behave how Americans behave.
Being a bit hypocritical there, aren't we?

I guess what I'm saying is, if it gets your undies in that big a knot, do something about it, but for Christ's sake stop the bitching. I hear enough whining here in the States. Do something or sit down and shut up.

I don't know about Americans hating America, but most other nations have reasons to hate America. As a Brit, I hate the influence Americans have over my politics. I don't know if it's fashion, it's more logic.

As for 'doing something about it', I think that's called September 11th, and as far as I'm aware that didn't go down too well over there....

Yeah I think you are right dude.

As for 'doing something about it', I think that's called September 11th, and as far as I'm aware that didn't go down too well over there....

It's natural for humans to resist change. I'm not saying for people to go out and kill each other. Just that if you really hate the way things are, get up off yer ass, quit posting about it on an online forum, and *do* something.

I don't think it's 'fashionable' to hate the US (at least for anyone with a brain), but there are reasons to be concerned with its direction and leadership. And that includes many American's.

Pyrenees, I guess you could call Sept. 11 "doing something about it"...hopefully you're not condoning those events.

hey, on the topic of "doing something about it", if you're endorsing the killing of innocents, why haven't you enlisted?

Go be all you can be. Make us all proud!

When has anyone endorsed the killing of innocents, in this thread at least?

It does seem very 'cool' to hate America in this forum. I'm not too fond of our current administration, but I don't like the vibes I get from a lot of the threads in here. And some of the comments *coughs and glances at The Pyrenees*

Extending that argument a bit, I also think it's 'cool' to be American and hate America, which seems a bit silly. There's plenty of other places to live.... plenty.

Maybe you might have considered this 'fashion' (in the us at least) might have stemmed from the growing concern about your government catalysed by Micheal Moore??
You guys must really need help if the idea of having an opinion goes in and out fashion :confused:

Pyrenees, I guess you could call Sept. 11 "doing something about it"...hopefully you're not condoning those events.


Of course not. I was just saying that you can't 'bait' people into acting against America and get upset when people actually do do something about it. Personally, my opposition to Americanism (not Americans) is limited to boycotting major US companies, the odd flag burning and a pledge to fight if my country goes to war with America. Which it won't.

The thing is my idea of a perfect country is one founded on the principles that America was founded on. Unfortunately I think America no longer works on those principles of equality, liberty and justice, and instead works on Individualism, Imperialism and Corruption. Verging on Fascism.

Way to totally miss the point, there, Moose. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Im just sick of the fact that the patriot act was initiated and that i might not have a social security account... thats why im pissed at america... oh yeah dont let me forget but where are those terrible weapons of mass destruction?

P.S. I watched the history channel and sudam and osama have been enemys since osamas birth because of his blood line with the Saudis!

Is it just me or is it suddenly hip and trendy to hate America? You're nobody if you don't loathe those capitalist pigs! I mean, really.

Yeah. America has done some pretty fucked up shit, granted. Who hasn't?
I've bolded the problem. I don't like the things America has done recently. I don't like how they dragged my country into a war I didn't agree with. But, the problem is, people seem to think that hating the things America has done can't be separated from simply hating America. I don't like what America has done, and yet, I do like America.

Anyway, as for standing up and doing something, come the Fall, I'm volunteering for Kerry.

I don't think many people here actually hate America, as an entity or a people. They hate the things that America has done, the heavy-handed way in which it exercises geopolitical control over the third world and protects its economic interests through puppet regimes and military interventions..

And I think the reason we get more flak for our screwups is because we've been doing it for so damn long and we continue to do so well into the present day with no apologies. The Soviet Union? Bastards. But it doesn't exist anymore. England, France, Germany? Colonialists, but they don't own and have no interest in owning any colonies anymore. With the US, the methods of exercising power and control are still put in use to the present day, and the hierarchical system (corporatism) that promotes this is still very much running the show. So why shouldn't people complain?

The only thing I agreed with in that entire post is the need to do something about the viciousness of the current system besides posting here about it. Which, for all we know, half the folks classified as the "hate america people" are already doing.

I've bolded the problem. I don't like the things America has done recently. I don't like how they dragged my country into a war I didn't agree with. But, the problem is, people seem to think that hating the things America has done can't be separated from simply hating America. I don't like what America has done, and yet, I do like America.

Anyway, as for standing up and doing something, come the Fall, I'm volunteering for Kerry.

See, people? Is this so hard? Is this terrorism? Is this facism, or corruption?

No. It's doing something about it.

It's all about what group of people you're in.

If you don't listen to music, or listen to country, you probably love your country.

If you listen to a lot of metal/punk/rock, you probably hate America.

It's not "cool" to be an American & hate America, but it sure is patriotic to question your administration for the good of the nation. I'm not talking about starting a revolution, I'm talking about using the Democratic Process and voting! If we were all expected to be completely complacent or even exuberant about the current administration, then why even bother giving the citizens a vote? If it's Un-American to dislike the status quo, then why have a Democracy? If you listen to a lot of the extreme right wing conservatives that say that you're Un-American if you dislike Bush, then what's the point of being a free people? Look what just happened with Linda Rondstat, banned from a venue for telling the audiance to go see Farenhiet 911! Come on, banning a performer for telling people to go see a movie!
So anyway, no matter who you are, American, Forigner, whatever, it should be your god given right to say "Bush is a boob!" and not be labeled as an America-Hater.

It's all about what group of people you're in.

If you don't listen to music, or listen to country, you probably love your country.

If you listen to a lot of metal/punk/rock, you probably hate America.



So what your saying is that rock music is anti-america. Well if you knew about 90% of bands that are "metal" maybe i dont know what your refering to but no metal band i listen to is "anti-america" theyre mainly EMO bands!
Punk, on the other hand... Anti-flag they dont hate america they mainly hate our presidents because they always drag us into war or screw us up in some other way like the patriot act. Sure we had the right to go after osama but we didnt have to go for the quote "weapons of mass destruction" which have yet to be found and all our troops are dying! Does anyone agree that the only way to stop our troops from dying is to LEAVE!!!

It's all about what group of people you're in.

If you don't listen to music, or listen to country, you probably love your country.

If you listen to a lot of metal/punk/rock, you probably hate America.

I don't think that's necessarily true. True, I mainly listen to rock music, and I really hate the way America is so capitalist. But, I've always disliked America, and I used to listen to Britney Spears!

Does anyone agree that the only way to stop our troops from dying is to LEAVE!!!


That'd be a totally pussy thing to do. You've illegally invaded their country, destroyed their infrastructure and humiliated their citizens. The least you can do is clean up before you leave.

Not only that, but what exactly did you expect? War generally tends to involve troops dying. If you're not prepared to let your troops die, don't let them fight.

Kasland i must agree fully i used to like britney and the gang and now its atreyu but my views were always the same!

Kasland i must agree fully i used to like britney and the gang and now its atreyu but my views were always the same!

Cheers! :D

That'd be a totally pussy thing to do. You've illegally invaded their country, destroyed their infrastructure and humiliated their citizens. The least you can do is clean up before you leave.


Yeah i didnt want to get to into what i really wanted to say but true that would be pussy lol! I agree fully we did invade them illegaly and crap and im sick so we should leave. We got Sudam even though we should let him go because he really hasnt done anything criminal

See, people? Is this so hard? Is this terrorism? Is this facism, or corruption?

No. It's doing something about it.

I'd vote for Kerry also. But i guess I can't get a chance to vote, right?

Yeah i didnt want to get to into what i really wanted to say but true that would be pussy lol! I agree fully we did invade them illegaly and crap and im sick so we should leave. We got Sudam even though we should let him go because he really hasnt done anything criminal


Erm- except from being a totally evil fascist dictator who murdered and persecuted his own citizens?

If they wanted to go in to get Saddam (and said that from the front), had done it with the UN, and had an international force to help democracy, I'd not only have supported the war, I'd have volunteered. The only time violence is right is self-defence or against Fascism.

Hmmm I just seriously belive that bush should keep to his countrie and try and help us. Sure they need help but hes OUR president

I don't think that's necessarily true. True, I mainly listen to rock music, and I really hate the way America is so capitalist. But, I've always disliked America, and I used to listen to Britney Spears!

Well, people's personalities match what music they listen to.

Rock is usually about non-conformity and rebellion, country is the opposite.

I think people that want to be rebellious are more likely to hate America.

Rock is usually about non-conformity and rebellion, country is the opposite.



Except Johnny Cash and Woody Guthrie. Both are pretty proud Americans, sure, but anti-conformity Americans. Both socialist, for a start.

Except Johnny Cash and Woody Guthrie. Both are pretty proud Americans, sure, but anti-conformity Americans. Both socialist, for a start.

In my eyes both of these great musicians are ROCKABILLY!

In my eyes both of these great musicians are ROCKABILLY!

Genius transcends genre.

What?

Yeah i didnt want to get to into what i really wanted to say but true that would be pussy lol! I agree fully we did invade them illegaly and crap and im sick so we should leave. We got Sudam even though we should let him go because he really hasnt done anything criminal

well he hasnt done anything illegal TO US. but thats why we are having him tried by the iraqis. he has done plenty illegal there. in most countries genocide is illegal even if you are president. holding him for the iraqis to deal with is a good thing.

it would be a terrible thing to just leave iraq now. we shouldnt have invaded a country that has never done anything to us but we did. now we have to do our best to do right by the iraqi people. to cut and run because we are losing soldiers would be to doom them to the next vile dictator to work his way to the top of the heap. i would be ashamed of my country if we did that.

YES! if he has not done anything to the US we have no right to go in there. If they dont want him they can have an uprising. Hell We as Americans did it. France did it, Mexico, Ireland, Scotland (but they were reconqured). If they can do it so can they!

Is it just me or is it suddenly hip and trendy to hate America? You're nobody if you don't loathe those capitalist pigs! I mean, really.

Yeah. America has done some pretty fucked up shit, granted. Who hasn't?

I've seen so many people bitch about how America treats the world like its child or colony, expecting everyone to behave how Americans behave.
Being a bit hypocritical there, aren't we?

I guess what I'm saying is, if it gets your undies in that big a knot, do something about it, but for Christ's sake stop the bitching. I hear enough whining here in the States. Do something or sit down and shut up.


I think that you're right when you say that people should stop bitching about the United States. (America by the way refers to the entire continent, North and South, and shouldn't be used to refer to one country...just a pet peeve many of us who occupy other parts of this continent have...perhaps that was bitching?:)) Bitching, to me, means making unfocused statements purely for the pleasure (?) of saying something negative. What I would like to hear MORE of is CRITIQUES of the U.S.A.

When people critique the policies of a nation, they do so in a reasonable manner, backed up by proof (preferably). Then, if possible, they offer alternatives in the hopes that a negative policy might be improved or replaced. That said:

You say that the U.S has done some "fucked up shit", but so have others. Oh yes, I'd definately agree with that... in fact, I doubt there's been a single nation on this planet that hasn't somehow persecuted its own citizens or citizens of another nation. However, the sheer AMOUNT of U.S policies that have affected other nations negatively is, I think, what really bothers a lot of people. Examples:

-the CIA backed coup in Iran, 1953, overthrowing a democracy and installing the Shah
-the CIA backed coup in Guatemala, 1954, resulting in a series of military dictatorships that caused the deaths of an estimated 100,000 people
-the CIA backed coup in Indonesia, 1965, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 1,000,000 people
he CIA-backed coup in Chile, 1973, resulting in a military dictatorship that ordered the deaths and disappearances of roughly 3000 people

These are just SOME examples of the direct involvement in the overthrowing of elected governments in sovereign nations. Could you possibly imagine another nation deciding to overthrow the elected U.S government? Why is only unthinkable for this to happen in your nation? The list of indirect involvement abroad, also with distasterous results, is a matter of public record. Those of you unaware of this can read Noam Chomsky (who methodically backs up his information), or even do a search of declassified US goverment documents detailing the actions and philosophies behind such actions. The point is, for a nation that professes to be so keen on upholding democracy and freedom, the U.S has done a lot to stop such freedoms developing in other nations.

My point with all of this is that I believe many people around the world have a valid and personal reason for disliking many U.S policies. (policies, not people) Blind hatred is different... it is unreasoning and often leads to horrific acts, like 911... or the beating and murder of gay teen Mathew Sheppard. It can happen anywhere... be directed against anyone, and I refuse to condone it no matter the reason.

That said, you argue that people should do something about their complaints. I agree, and you should be happy to know that that is what millions of people around the world are doing. Citizens of many nations are lobbying their governements to ACT when the U.S (and other countries) violate human rights, or break international agreements (RE: the Geneva conventions which have been violated again and again by the U.S in the conflict with Iraq). Citizens in your own country protest and work long hours to make sure the School of the Americas, (notorious for teaching torture methods to foreign soldiers) can not continue to operate. I myself am involved in a coalition of lawyers and advocates to repeal oppressive immigration laws that were put in place as Canada's knee-jerk reaction to 911. People all over the world are working, usually for free, to hold their governements, and their fellow citizens accountable for atrocities and oppressive foreign policies.

So, while there will always be those who jump on the bandwagon of ignorant hatred, please do not let them blind you to the many reasonable people who critique the U.S. The U.S is receiving so much attention because of its undeniable influence in global politics and commerce. Don't forget though that you are hearing so much of this because you live in the U.S. In many countries, we're more worried about the outrageous actions of our own governments (sponsorship scandal... spiralling cost of the gun registry...), and we only spend a few minutes a day 'bitching' about yours!:)

i always try to be fashionable in my hate. lovely shiney black jackboots, a well taylored and emmaculately pressed brownshirt ect...