NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think the chances are of an election scandal emerging yet again during / right after the coming elections?

Seeing Bush's track record I'd say it is as good as certain that he will once again use Daddy's and Bro's influence to pull strings and what not, in order to ensure that he gets another 4 years. Years that will undoubtedly be spend taking a royal piss on the constitution, further ruining the economy, and creating an even better atmosphere to encourage terrorism. Not to mention the fact that it will be years dedicated to helping the filthy rich getting even richer at, of course, the expense of the middle class and the poor.

who wants to bet he'll start shipping American flags to Mid East countries at $10 per flag so they can be burned?

No matter what, this election will be as close and as contested as it has ever been in American history.

this question is not very clear :sniper:

What do you think the chances are of an election scandal emerging yet again during / right after the coming elections?

Seeing Bush's track record I'd say it is as good as certain that he will once again use Daddy's and Bro's influence to pull strings and what not, in order to ensure that he gets another 4 years. Years that will undoubtedly be spend taking a royal piss on the constitution, further ruining the economy, and creating an even better atmosphere to encourage terrorism. Not to mention the fact that it will be years dedicated to helping the filthy rich getting even richer at, of course, the expense of the middle class and the poor.

...sounds about right...personally I think that in the middle east if they burned fewer flags, and more pictures of George W Bush, it would get the message across better...we're not all like him

Yes, very much.


Tree words:

Electronic Voting Machine


and another word:

Diebold


read on the issues and be afraid... be very afraid.

No matter what, this election will be as close and as contested as it has ever been in American history.
You're thinking even tighter that Bush/Gore '00? The first election ever won by a negative margin?

You're thinking even tighter that Bush/Gore '00? The first election ever won by a negative margin?

Are we any less divided now?

Hey! I made it to 1,000 posts! Yay! (Am I entitled to through a party, or do I have to wait to 5,000?)

And why am I a pimp?

Sorry. Hijack over.

1. '00 was not the first american "election" (and i use that term loosely) won by the loser. hayes/tilden in the late 19th century also had this problem, though it was ridiculously close and not very relevant back then (and the winner didn't turn out to be as much of an idiot, or at least wasn't famous for it, as this one).

2. if bush gets reelected, i would not be surprised, though i can't say that i expect it, if a major historical disaster occurs - something along the lines of germany in 1933 sans the racism or the initial public support. something like bush changing how many years he gets to stay in office, enacting patriot part 2 and unjustly abusing the power that's not constitutional in the first place, instating a peacetime draft, maybe even scrapping the constitution and declaring a new government. the last time there was this much internal tension with the federal government, you had a civil war. the difference this time is that it's not half of the US against the government and the other half - it's the US against its government.

the last time there was this much internal tension with the federal government, you had a civil war.

Maybe thats just what the world needs, just don't start using nuclear or biological weapons. We don't need nuclear winter or smallpox re-introduced into the wild.

The world is unstable thanks to U.S intervention EVERYWHERE. If the US can be pre-occupied with a war within its own borders, the rest of the world can re-arrange into a more natural, stable order.

Its like the US is holding down a spring, a lot of tension, a lot of potential energy.

Take the US out of the picture, and we'll have a safer world. I'm not suggesting that current US citizens have to die in their millions. Just divide it into 2 or 50 pieces.

Oh, I'm ranting again.

JiangGuo

Maybe thats just what the world needs, just don't start using nuclear or biological weapons. We don't need nuclear winter or smallpox re-introduced into the wild.

The world is unstable thanks to U.S intervention EVERYWHERE. If the US can be pre-occupied with a war within its own borders, the rest of the world can re-arrange into a more natural, stable order.

Its like the US is holding down a spring, a lot of tension, a lot of potential energy.

Take the US out of the picture, and we'll have a safer world. I'm not suggesting that current US citizens have to die in their millions. Just divide it into 2 or 50 pieces.

Oh, I'm ranting again.

JiangGuo

The whole concept is a little scary. But the situation isn't that bad; I wouldn't exagerate.

it's the US against its government.

If Bush gets another four years then that is probably what it will eventually come down to.

Kinda telling that the vast majority expects an election scandal.

I'm not even going to deign to answer that foolishness about the world being a better place without the US in it. Europe would be under either the Nazis or the Soviets still and the East would all be part of the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere. The greatest force for real human rights in the world today is the US and its ideals as opposed to the UN version where folks like Libya and Sudan chair the UN Human Rights Commission and no one does anything about crap like Darfur or the Southern Sudanese and the ongoing slavery and genocide therein. The UN certainly covered itself in glory in Rwanda after all. And one has only to look at the French record in places like the Ivory Coast or the Congo to say you must be joking.

As for domestic US issues... This is why there are going to be so many disappointed Democrats come November. You only talk to each other and are unwilling to criticize (constructively or otherwise).

Have you taken a look at the free speech area the (Democratic) city fathers have set aside for the conservative protesters in Boston? "Chain link fence, barbed wire, concrete barriers, wire mesh roof." "If Lynndie England shows up, I'm outta here." http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/ for July 25, 2004.

Meanwhile liberal activist Judge "Aren't I?" Sweet in New York is saying NYPD cops can't even search protesters backpacks in public. This despite a recent rash of empty packages being found on the subway that culminated in a not so empty package that went boom.

Are these guys nuts or don't the Democrats have any nuance of how this is going to play out to the American People? "It's 1968 and the world is watching." *click* "What's on 'Get Smart' tonight?" Nixon won that election and the next one too.

In any case, I do on occaision look at MoveOn.org or even DU if only to shake my head. I like to read Christopher Hitchens, and other liberal writers -- if only to see how the mighty have fallen. I mean Maureen Dowd used to be funny and Paul Krugman did a better job for Enron. :) After all, all lying all the time gets you is a reputation as a liar. But mostly I look at Slate from time to time.

You 'uns might want to look at National Review Online sometime for the US conservative (ie 19th Century Liberal) take on things even if you don't want the Republican view or Front Line Voices (word from Afghanistan and Iraq in the words of our front line troops instead of second and third hand reports from press stringers who seem incapable of getting it right lately). You could even look at what the Cato institute is up to if you're curious about the libertarians or even look up the Free Republic and Town Hall types. :)

http://www.nationalreview.com/
http://frontlinevoices.org/
http://www.military.com/ whose members came up with the above website -- the news and opinion stuff you have to page down a couple of times to see

Emperor Pro-Tem "Big D"
Vicar General
Crusade for Capitalism
Church of the Almighty Dollar

The Democrats have put together a nationwide network of election lawyers ready to challenge anything they don't like (like losing the election) at the drop of a chad. They plan on making it a knock-down, dragged out fight to the finish, so while it may not be a scandal; it certainly bids fair to be a nice round of mud-wrestling.

Does it really matter?

In case you haven't noticed, there's a Skull and Bones monopoly on this election: nicely rounded-out with either cabinet full of Bilderberg agents...

Just so you know, no matter which way you vote, the IMF wins...

The United States is one of the oldest surviving governments in the world today and no government in the past 10,000 years has lasted to present day. And for the most part, people don't realize when it's coming. A ton of citizens think of their nation as something that will continue for a long time even if they've seen their childhood government fall. We know that we'll die some day, but our government isn't mortal like us. Well... that's not true, and I would be surprised if we're getting close to the kind of tension that leads to a new order.

The Diebold stuff really scares me. Senator Nelson is trying to mandate an audit of the machines that will be used by about half of Florida's population in the upcoming election, but the immense responsibility that the state has given to private enterprises to monitor and audit their own equipment and even the election results is frightening. If a company counts your votes, isn't it no longer a private enterprise. That's a pretty major government function it's fulfilling, eh? Especially with the heightened number of undervotes (Less votes scored than the number of people who entered the voting booth), overvotes (where a person's vote can be counted more than once in the same way that you can double post by hitting submit too quickly sometimes), the lack of a paper trail, the nondisclosure of the program code, etc.

Scary stuff. Hopefully, we'll find a reasonable political leader who can encourage us to become competent/intelligent.

edit- When I say no government has survived to present day in the past 10,000 years, I sound dumb. That's not true since all current governments exist within the past 10,000 years and are alive today. What I mean is that no government has lasted a long, long time. :)

1. '00 was not the first american "election" (and i use that term loosely) won by the loser. hayes/tilden in the late 19th century also had this problem, though it was ridiculously close and not very relevant back then (and the winner didn't turn out to be as much of an idiot, or at least wasn't famous for it, as this one).

Strange coincidence--Hayes "won" that election because of some disputed electoral votes in Florida (I believe), and was basically awarded the Presidency when he agreed, prior to the voting of the electoral college, to pull the last federal troops out of the south, thus ending reconstruction. Let's just say that Tilden's people were none too pleased with the situation. Sound familiar?

The greatest force for real human rights in the world today is the US

Surely you must be joking.

How about current US Concentration Camps? They honour any human rights? How are they not a severe violation of human rights?

I think Bush had better be very careful, becuase another election scandal could land him in very hot water.
The country is so divided over this that I would not be surprised to see riots if Bush wins again, especially under nafarious circumstances.
Like the last time.

But I think its not going to make a difference.
I think Bushes god-awful record, poor decision making skills, terrible foriegn policy making choices, failure to balance the economy, truly dismal environmental record, and of yes........lying to the people to start a war for profit.

I think he's tied his own noose.

Kerry 04.

I'm not even going to deign to answer that foolishness about the world being a better place without the US in it. Europe would be under either the Nazis or the Soviets still and the East would all be part of the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere. The greatest force for real human rights in the world today is the US and its ideals as opposed to the UN version where folks like Libya and Sudan chair the UN Human Rights Commission and no one does anything about crap like Darfur or the Southern Sudanese and the ongoing slavery and genocide therein. The UN certainly covered itself in glory in Rwanda after all. And one has only to look at the French record in places like the Ivory Coast or the Congo to say you must be joking.Someone's been drinking the Fox-flavored Kool-Aid, haven't they? 1248B pointed out the US's dismal record on human rights in re Gitmo, and I'll raise him an Abu Ghraib.

As for domestic US issues... This is why there are going to be so many disappointed Democrats come November. You only talk to each other and are unwilling to criticize (constructively or otherwise).Go to any discussion forum about democratic policies and you'll see plenty of criticism. The Republicans are the ones who are famed for toeing the party line.

Have you taken a look at the free speech area the (Democratic) city fathers have set aside for the conservative protesters in Boston? "Chain link fence, barbed wire, concrete barriers, wire mesh roof." "If Lynndie England shows up, I'm outta here." http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/ for July 25, 2004.You're right--it is a shitty thing to do and I hate that my party is doing it. Meanwhile, why not criticize the Republican party for doing the exact fucking thing for the last 4 years every time Bush makes a public appearance? Why not criticize the police who arrested two people at a Bush appearance because they were wearing anti-Bush shirts, even if the charges were later dropped? Seems to me this is a point where you take the roofbeam out of your own eye before trying to get the straw out of ours.

Meanwhile liberal activist Judge "Aren't I?" Sweet in New York is saying NYPD cops can't even search protesters backpacks in public. This despite a recent rash of empty packages being found on the subway that culminated in a not so empty package that went boom.This is an inaccurate description of the ruling, but I'm not surprised since O'Reilly described it exactly the same way. The ruling is that police can't do blanket searches. They can, however, search anything that they feel looks suspicious, backpack or otherwise. In other words, all a cop has to do is say "you're giving me the shifty eye, let me look in your bag," and the search will be upheld.

Are these guys nuts or don't the Democrats have any nuance of how this is going to play out to the American People? "It's 1968 and the world is watching." *click* "What's on 'Get Smart' tonight?" Nixon won that election and the next one too.While George Bush is at least as crooked as Nixon, the Democrats don't have to deal with the assassination of two popular political leaders and being the authors of a disastrous war and being linked to an unpopular incumbent. Situation is a bit different this time.

In any case, I do on occaision look at MoveOn.org or even DU if only to shake my head. I like to read Christopher Hitchens, and other liberal writers -- if only to see how the mighty have fallen. I mean Maureen Dowd used to be funny and Paul Krugman did a better job for Enron. :) After all, all lying all the time gets you is a reputation as a liar. But mostly I look at Slate from time to time. Hitchens hasn't been liberal for at least 6 years now, so you can stop trying to attach him to us. Dowd was never any good, and the Krugman comment is a cheap shot that doesn't even come close to passing the laugh test. You want to criticize him, take him on substance.

You 'uns might want to look at National Review Online sometime for the US conservative (ie 19th Century Liberal) take on things even if you don't want the Republican view or Front Line Voices (word from Afghanistan and Iraq in the words of our front line troops instead of second and third hand reports from press stringers who seem incapable of getting it right lately). You could even look at what the Cato institute is up to if you're curious about the libertarians or even look up the Free Republic and Town Hall types. :)

http://www.nationalreview.com/
http://frontlinevoices.org/
http://www.military.com/ whose members came up with the above website -- the news and opinion stuff you have to page down a couple of times to see

Emperor Pro-Tem "Big D"
Vicar General
Crusade for Capitalism
Church of the Almighty Dollar
Trust me--I keep an eye on them. It's good to know what your enemies are saying about you, and yes--the discourse level they have stooped to over the last ten years classifies them as enemies. Honest Republicans I can be friendly with, even work out compromises with. NRO, The Free Republic, Town Hall? I wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire, and I'm sure they would do me the same courtesy.

We didn't want Bush in last time. Damn bastard is working his ass off to get the whole rest of the world pissed off at us - even the folks in our own HEMISPHERE have no respect for us. Here's one more vote to kick his oil-goopy NEW-KEW-LUHR mispronouncing IGNORANT crack-smokin' ass-kissing war-mongering dipshit corpse of a mentality OUTTA the "white" house. Jeb is nothing more than a "please don't rock the boat 'til my bro wins the election again" dimwit. Here's a NOTE for all you folks out there: Did you know: Last election, ballots in Florida were ordered from a printing company in Texas by Jeb's office? George Washington woulda shot both of these bastards dead or would have died trying. Hell, even Thomas Jefferson would have smoked a fat joint while loading up his rifle for these folks. Don't you realize people, that the EXACT tactics that "we" call "terrorism" are the ones that won us our "freedom"? Let me give you a few hints: 1) Real estate in the top third of the twin towers was almost *empty* - nobody, but NOBODY wanted to rent a place where pencils (or pens) rolled off your desk as the sun went past noon and the building flexed. 2) What kind of IDIOTS do you think we are to believe that multiple passenger aircraft just "went off" without a single air traffic controller saying "uh... yoo hoo..." 3) What BETTER way to get America to stand behind (pardon the expression) ANYTHING in the name of "national security and safety"? 4) In case you didn't notice, there was a quote from an explosive demolitions expert *very* shortly after 9/11 saying "...eventually we would have had to demolish the building before long - as it happened, there was minimal damage to any adjacent buildings..." "...we couldn't have done a cleaner job of demolition with a year's preparation." and 5) "uhh.. how come we went after Hussein when it was Bin Laden who supposedly perpetrated the event?" and 6) Does anyone remember Somalia? Hussein's "mustard gas" wipeout of the Kurds was done with weapons that WE gave him. 7) Did ya know that OUR CIA TRAINED BIN LADEN?

'Nuff said.

Paint your windows white, bend over and give your little rosie a kiss goodbye.

Here is a bit of information for all of you cry baby liberals. First, sure Gore won the popular vote, but get this we have a thing called the electoral college. It is there so that small states have an equal say in elections. Since Bush won 30 states thus giving him enough points. Second, why did Gore not want to count all of the military absentee votes? In Florida this would clearly have thrust Bush into the vote lead. Third, is it just me or are alot of democratic voters just plain idiotic? I mean you get confused by a ballot? How do you handle more important things like your tax returns, raising children, and eating without choking? Fourth, it may be news to you but in America, people do live outside of major metropolitan areas. This part of the country is called the real America and do you know who they voted for? For the love of pete the people of Gores' own state didn't vote for him!

PS I just love Haliburton and evil conservatives. Keep pumping those fossil fuels America, I need heat for my tomatoes!

We didn't want Bush in last time. Damn bastard is working his ass off to get the whole rest of the world pissed off at us - even the folks in our own HEMISPHERE have no respect for us. Here's one more vote to kick his oil-goopy NEW-KEW-LUHR mispronouncing IGNORANT crack-smokin' ass-kissing war-mongering dipshit corpse of a mentality OUTTA the "white" house. Jeb is nothing more than a "please don't rock the boat 'til my bro wins the election again" dimwit. Here's a NOTE for all you folks out there: Did you know: Last election, ballots in Florida were ordered from a printing company in Texas by Jeb's office? George Washington woulda shot both of these bastards dead or would have died trying. Hell, even Thomas Jefferson would have smoked a fat joint while loading up his rifle for these folks. Don't you realize people, that the EXACT tactics that "we" call "terrorism" are the ones that won us our "freedom"? Let me give you a few hints: 1) Real estate in the top third of the twin towers was almost *empty* - nobody, but NOBODY wanted to rent a place where pencils (or pens) rolled off your desk as the sun went past noon and the building flexed. 2) What kind of IDIOTS do you think we are to believe that multiple passenger aircraft just "went off" without a single air traffic controller saying "uh... yoo hoo..." 3) What BETTER way to get America to stand behind (pardon the expression) ANYTHING in the name of "national security and safety"? 4) In case you didn't notice, there was a quote from an explosive demolitions expert *very* shortly after 9/11 saying "...eventually we would have had to demolish the building before long - as it happened, there was minimal damage to any adjacent buildings..." "...we couldn't have done a cleaner job of demolition with a year's preparation." and 5) "uhh.. how come we went after Hussein when it was Bin Laden who supposedly perpetrated the event?" and 6) Does anyone remember Somalia? Hussein's "mustard gas" wipeout of the Kurds was done with weapons that WE gave him. 7) Did ya know that OUR CIA TRAINED BIN LADEN?

'Nuff said.

Paint your windows white, bend over and give your little rosie a kiss goodbye.

Hey whose a cute little liberal, yes you are! Can you put your bong down for a second. One thing I've noticied is how you whiny liberals are so angry at Bush and conservatives. Why? It's not really healthy to be so stressed. It's because of all the lies right! Sure Bush lies, all politicians do. Do you not remember Clinton bombing Iraq because he was being impeached, or how in a speech he said he was offered Bin Laden but refused then denied having said that in a later interview. Oh and how your hero Ted Kennedy killed a woman and got a slap on the wrist. Well thats my rant, now you can go back to your bong I mean research!

Why is it so important what any other country thinks of the US. They are all jealous of our success as a nation. I could care less what an anti semetic Frenchy Frenchman thinks. Don't get me started on those Germans or the UN!

Why is it so important what any other country thinks of the US.

Maybe because the US is not the only nation on the map of the world? :rolleyes:



They are all jealous of our success as a nation.

Being the fattest, or is it second fattest, nation on the globe counts as a success now?

Or maybe over-throwing foreign regimes and replacing them with puppet dictators is what defines "success"?

Or maybe it's having the second highest murder rate per capita in the world that spells S-U-C-C-E-S-S?

Or maybe having a big fat national debt counts as “being successful” these days?

Or maybe having the highest % of the population imprisoned of all the nations in the world, is what makes you go "boy, are we successful!!"?

You know what? I bet it is the fact that despite being the richest country in the world this money is NOT spend on healthcare and education, but on arms instead is what makes you cream your panties and say to yourself "God bless America!! Aren’t we a success to be jealous of!!”

Or could it be the way the US handles the environment that convinced you that the US is a success to be envied?

I'm not even going to deign to answer that foolishness about the world being a better place without the US in it. Europe would be under either the Nazis or the Soviets still and the East would all be part of the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere. The greatest force for real human rights in the world today is the US and its ideals

i VEHEMENTLY disagree with you on the last 2 points. i won't delve into the first. the US didn't get rid of the nazis. the country that was fighting between 95% and 80% of the Wehrmacht throughout the war, and lost more lives than half of the population of the US did. they in turn collapsed not because of anything the US did, but because of flaws of the socialist system, exacerbated by the corrupt and incompetent government that delivered the coup-de-grace with good intention but poor result (or in reality, a result not much better overall than the soviet union in the 80's). i'm prepared to defend my position with further facts, not the least of which is that i grew up in the 80's in the soviet union, and much of my family stayed as late as 1999. as for japan...it's too much of a "what if" to say what would have happened between japan and russia had the US not intervened, so on this point i'll say nothing for or against.

the leader in civil rights? you're either blindly patriotic, stupid, or comparing to the wrong nations. you seem to have some basic idea of what you're talking about, so i'll rule out the second possibility for now. the US, the country where anal sex gets you a mandatory 10 years in prison, a drug less harmful than tobacco gets you more than murder does, where the government has the authority (and uses it) to declare you an enemy combatant and you thus effectively disappear (sounding a lot like my grandparents' stories of russia in the 30's and 40's), where the president is appointed by a mysterious committee that nobody seems to acknowledge, or know who's on it, where recent arrivals to the country which fought under the banner "no taxation without representation" wait 11 years just to be able to live here permanently, and another 5 to be able to vote for anything official lines the pockets of the crudeocracy for all 16...i could go on and on.

you'll guess correctly that i'm a liberal. i'm actually a radical whose ideas are generally (though not always) libertarian. you won't notice that i'm whiny, or that i just post a page saying "bush sucks" with a lot of expletives. i'm trying to be factual, unaggressive, and reasonably objective in my posts. thus, i'd appreciate if any disagreement (or agreement, for that matter) is also that way.

No one has even mentioned the news stories that ran about a month ago that talked about the possibilities of the election being "delayed" in case of a "major national disaster."

No one has even mentioned the news stories that ran about a month ago that talked about the possibilities of the election being "delayed" in case of a "major national disaster."

mrr? do tell - i know nothing of this.

Maybe because the US is not the only nation on the map of the world? :rolleyes:





Being the fattest, or is it second fattest, nation on the globe counts as a success now?

Or maybe over-throwing foreign regimes and replacing them with puppet dictators is what defines "success"?

Or maybe it's having the second highest murder rate per capita in the world that spells S-U-C-C-E-S-S?

Or maybe having a big fat national debt counts as “being successful” these days?

Or maybe having the highest % of the population imprisoned of all the nations in the world, is what makes you go "boy, are we successful!!"?

You know what? I bet it is the fact that despite being the richest country in the world this money is NOT spend on healthcare and education, but on arms instead is what makes you cream your panties and say to yourself "God bless America!! Aren’t we a success to be jealous of!!”

Or could it be the way the US handles the environment that convinced you that the US is a success to be envied?


HaHaHa, I guess no other country has any problems. America is the land of opportunity, if you work hard then maybe you can make it. But I quess you want everyone to be given everything. I don't think the USA is going away any time soon.

There are other countries on the map, but our first job is too thing about ourselves first.

If some of us are overweight does that make us a failure. How about Ethiopia, are they a success because they are all slim? Most countries would kill to have the foods and lifestyles we have.

Most former imperialistic nations have installed puppets. It's called doing what it takes to make your nation safer, to get much needed resources, etc. America isn't an imperial power, sure you think we are but we aren't. Why aren't our oil tankers lining up in Iraq to steal all of their wonderful oil?

Murder rates make a country a success? Cool, I thought South Africa was a paradise now, but they have a huge crime rate, you know #1 in car jackings. Canada has a higher crime rate then we do as well. Murders happen when the society you live in is as free as we are.

The big fat national debt is not very important to our nations survival. What is a bank going to foreclose us. Let me grab my dog before they put that lock on my door. Our money is still the world currency, as opposed to your precious Euro. The EU got together to out do the US and they haven't even come close.

Boy we are successful, crime rates are going down, we bust the bad guys, and still have almost 300 million people not in prison. But alas we must be failures since you say so.

It is not the federal gov'ts job to totally fund education, that is a states issue. Unlike your utopia paradise we give responsibilites to each state, like road building, schooling, etc. How would universal healthcare work in America? I shudder to think of the disaster that would happen, huge waits for services, huge debts, lower treatment standards. Look at Canada for your answers, and they have only 10% of our population. Arms are important to keeping America as the worlds only true Superpower. Maybe its better to call us a MegaPower. What with our financial, technology, manpower, and military strengths no nation in the history of the world can compare.

Lastly, the environment, honestly I don't care, as global warming is not even happening. It can't be proven as fact. It's a theory. In the 1970's scientists thought we were going into an ice age, hahaha. Volcanoes produce more pollution then all of man put together. I'll keep driving my suv and if I see you walking I'll give you a lift.

HaHaHa, I guess no other country has any problems.

The point I was trying to make was that the US seems hardly nation worthy of being jealous of. There are many other countries that are far more successful in those areas that count than the US. And what would those areas be? Personal freedom, healthcare, education, corporate law, political climate, environment, legislation, just to name a few.

America is the land of opportunity, if you work hard then maybe you can make it.

Same can be said for many other countries.

But I guess you want everyone to be given everything.

Speculation. And no, I that is not what I want.

I don't think the USA is going away any time soon.

And what has this to do with the topic at hand? Nothing. lol

There are other countries on the map, but our first job is too thing about ourselves first.

Not doing a good job of it, are you?

I did want to comment on the rest of your post, but the amount of irrational thought made it unreadable. So, I will leave it to someone with a lot more patience than me to respond to your pathetic arguments. :)

i'm very tempted to abandon my policy of non-flaming. but i won't even bother explaining why that post could have come from nobody but an idiot. it's one thing to be ignorant. it's another to be patriotic and yet another to be jingoistic. but to blindly spit out what in places is just not true, in others a very immature and unintelligent (at best) view of things that are true, is stupidity.

there are american tankers taking iraqi oil.

global warming is undemiably happening, though there is legitimate argument that it's not our fault.

this is not a free country. many of the people in jails are there because of actions which hurt no-one - drugs, prostitution, etc.

and i struggle to decide between laughing at your view of national debt, and shuddering to think that this is how your leadership thinks, too.

finally, your definitions of "an imperial power", "empire", and "imperialism" need correction before you speak about them again.

someone else take over from here.

The point I was trying to make was that the US seems hardly nation worthy of being jealous of. There are many other countries that are far more successful in those areas that count than the US. And what would those areas be? Personal freedom, healthcare, education, corporate law, political climate, environment, legislation, just to name a few.



Same can be said for many other countries.



Speculation. And no, I that is not what I want.



And what has this to do with the topic at hand? Nothing. lol



Not doing a good job of it, are you?

I did want to comment on the rest of your post, but the amount of irrational thought made it unreadable. So, I will leave it to someone with a lot more patience than me to respond to your pathetic arguments. :)

Yup it was unreadable but you were able to respond to it now weren't you?

Personal freedom? If you live in a socialist society where healthcare is given to it's citizens, how can you have personal freedom? You can't choose your healthcare, and I would think that is a rather personal part of freedom.

So go ahead and insult my intelligence, just goes to show that you have no real debate to counter my claims. So ha ha charade you are, you crybaby liberal.

By the way, in the 20th and 19th centuries, I didn't hear about too many people immigrating from America to Europe! Did you? Or to this day people floating on leaky rafts in order to get to America. I haven't seen many rafts floating towards France lately.

I feel that a lot of the countries which rate so highly in quality of life studies are living the highlife at the expense of the rest of the world. I'm not saying it's wrong to do that... I just think Luxembourg and Norway shouldn't be touted as models for the rest of the world. Their demographics are a bit skewed. They can rely on other nations for economic and military benefits which probably allows them to spend a little more than they normally could on their small, relatively homogenous populations.

So, while there are countries to be jealous of in Europe, I also see why somebody would highly regard what the U.S. has going.

And I still think there's an uncanny chance there'll be an election scandal.

Or to this day people floating on leaky rafts in order to get to America. I haven't seen many rafts floating towards France lately.

Well... while the number of rafters to France hasn't been very high since Napoleon's return, there actually are staggering numbers of immigrants in countries like France. The increasing Arab population in the country has been subject of a lot of controversy and far overshadows the number of migrants we have in the US. Considering how small France is compared to us, the influx is ridiculously large.

No one has even mentioned the news stories that ran about a month ago that talked about the possibilities of the election being "delayed" in case of a "major national disaster."
mrr? do tell - i know nothing of this.Back on July 11 Newsweek (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5411741/site/newsweek) ran this story that claimed the government had asked the department of Homeland Security to see what could be done legally to delay elections in te event of a terrorist attack in the US close to or on election day. Plenty of people, myself included (http://incertus.blogspot.com/2004_07_01_incertus_archive.html) (see the July 11 and 12 entries) were rightfully outraged, since the kind of attack that would cause any kind of realistic disruption would have to include multiple nuclear missiles being lobbed at us, and if that happened, we've got bigger problems to worry about. I'd imagine that there would be a good number of people like me who would go to the polling booth with radiation sickness and skin flaking off our bones to vote Bush out of office, but that's another story altogether.

But anyway, as is typical of this administration, Condi Rice went on national tv and denied that any such thing was happening, (which was utter bullshit, since Newsweek had a copy of the memo) and the "liberal" media left it alone. If you want to see how Senator Barbara Boxer responded to the situation, I have the email her office sent me posted on my blog.

Yup it was unreadable but you were able to respond to it now weren't you?

Personal freedom? If you live in a socialist society where healthcare is given to it's citizens, how can you have personal freedom? You can't choose your healthcare, and I would think that is a rather personal part of freedom.

So go ahead and insult my intelligence, just goes to show that you have no real debate to counter my claims. So ha ha charade you are, you crybaby liberal.

By the way, in the 20th and 19th centuries, I didn't hear about too many people immigrating from America to Europe! Did you? Or to this day people floating on leaky rafts in order to get to America. I haven't seen many rafts floating towards France lately.

It seems you have fallen for the US propaganda that praises the US straight into Heaven.

As for me "not countering your claims." Well, let me counter your latest claim. :)

West Europe has a big problem with the enormous number of people who are trying to emigrate to West Europe, either in a legal capacity or illegal wise. These people come from every second and third world country on the globe, but also the US. Most of these immigrants flock to West Europe because they see West Europe as the place of endless opportunities. A place where through hard work they can build a future for themselves. It is very telling that you are ignorant of this. Yet, it was to be expected as unfortunately most Americans show little to no interest to what happens outside their own borders.

BTW I never insulted your intelligence. I did, however, accuse you of presenting irrational thought.

I think it's pretty obvious that Hannibal has no idea about the policies that most European countries have toward citizens of their former colonies, that they're allowed to immigrate virtually without restriction. Imagine what would happen if that policy were suggested here in the US--Hannibal and his ilk, in spite of their bloviating about how everyone wants to come to the US because it's the greatest show on earth--would blow a gasket.

I voted no because the american people will not be fooled again in another election. and if someone (e.g. Bush) tires to pull something over on us, it will fail becuse people are too pissed off to be screwe over agian after the lies from the last election and iraq.

US colonial (territorial) citizens can immigrate without restriction.
These territories would be guam, US virgin islands, american samoa, swains island, and maybe something else I forget.

I think there is only one US ex colony (i.e. phillipines). I'm sure there is restrictions, but I don't see a floodgate of phillipinians being a real issue even if it did happen.

You're thinking even tighter that Bush/Gore '00? The first election ever won by a negative margin?

Actually...
1824 John Quincy Adams received less popular votes, and less electoral votes than Andrew Jackson. But for some reason the election was decided by the House of Representatives, which gave it to JQA. (I think the reason here is because neither got a majority)

1876 the electoral vote was Hayes 185, Tilden 184. Popular vote was Hayes 4.0M, Tilden 4.3M.

1888 electoral: Harrison 233, Cleveland 168; Popular: Harrison 5.44M, Cleveland 5.54M

2000 electoral: Bush 271; Gore 266. Popular: Bush 50.4M; Gore 50.9M

And there have been many, many really close elections (in terms of popular vote)

http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/scores.html
and 2000 is on http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/scores2.html

In 1876 and 1888 there were movements to do away with the electoral college. Since the victor in each case only won because of the electoral college it is still there.

forgot those greasy bastards.

US colonial (territorial) citizens can immigrate without restriction.
These territories would be guam, US virgin islands, american samoa, swains island, and maybe something else I forget.

I think there is only one US ex colony (i.e. phillipines). I'm sure there is restrictions, but I don't see a floodgate of phillipinians being a real issue even if it did happen.
Current colonies is the case with the US--former colonies is the case with at least the UK and France. There have been moves in recent years in France to change that policy because of the huge influx of people from Arab countries.

http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/american_dictator.htm

Does the fact that both major candidates refuse to comment on belonging to the same secret society count as a rigged election?

Seems to me most expect an election scandal. Very telling of how people see Bush&co.

This is what I think will happen:

- Bush will get his additional four years in the White House. But he'll get it in a way that will cause more civil unrest then he bargained far.

- Suppressing demonstrators will probably get out of hand, and before long Bush has dead demonstrators on his hands. This will further infuriate the population. Well, not those who have blind faith in Bush. lol

- Civil rights will be sacrificed in the name of "security". Which will cause of even more civil unrest. More protest, more fighting, and a greater division between the Government and the People as a consequence.

- I wouldn’t be surprised if the civil unrest and the fighting between protesters and the government might trigger some states to go "Fuck you Bush! We cecede as of right now!" Maybe another Civil War?

And that's just domestic. Don't even want to think what another four years of Bush might cause on the international platform.

mrr? do tell - i know nothing of this.

here are the first couple of paragraphs:
The Bush administration is reported to be investigating the possibility of postponing the presidential election in the event of a terror attack.

US counter-terrorism officials are examining what steps would be needed to permit a delay, Newsweek reports.

Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge last week warned al-Qaeda was planning to attack the US to disrupt the poll but conceded he had no precise information.

A senior Democrat in Congress has said talk of postponement is "excessive".



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3885663.stm

http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/american_dictator.htm

Does the fact that both major candidates refuse to comment on belonging to the same secret society count as a rigged election?
No--it means they both belonged to a fraternity that swore them to silence about the innerworkings of the society. I did the same when I joined my fraternity--not Skull and Bones--and I take that oath seriously. I've never revealed the secrets and mysteries of my fraternity and I never will, and I wouldn't expect any other person to do it either.

Hey whose a cute little liberal, yes you are! Can you put your bong down for a second. One thing I've noticied is how you whiny liberals are so angry at Bush and conservatives. Why? It's not really healthy to be so stressed. It's because of all the lies right! Sure Bush lies, all politicians do. Do you not remember Clinton bombing Iraq because he was being impeached, or how in a speech he said he was offered Bin Laden but refused then denied having said that in a later interview. Oh and how your hero Ted Kennedy killed a woman and got a slap on the wrist. Well thats my rant, now you can go back to your bong I mean research!

I don't smoke anything that requires a bong.

Hey whose a cute little liberal, yes you are! Can you put your bong down for a second. One thing I've noticied is how you whiny liberals are so angry at Bush and conservatives. Why? It's not really healthy to be so stressed. It's because of all the lies right! Sure Bush lies, all politicians do. Do you not remember Clinton bombing Iraq because he was being impeached, or how in a speech he said he was offered Bin Laden but refused then denied having said that in a later interview. Oh and how your hero Ted Kennedy killed a woman and got a slap on the wrist. Well thats my rant, now you can go back to your bong I mean research!

Funny thing about memory--how you remember only what you want to remember. Like how that bombing in Iraq turned out to have destroyed some WMD production facilities, and how his bombings in Afghanistan (also similarly criticized) destroyed some al Qaeda training camps and just barely missed Bin Laden, and how criticism from the Republican congress limited his ability to continue those actions and possibly led to the failure to capture Bin Laden. And from the interview accusation, I can tell you read Newsmax--how sad for you that you get news from a source as reliable as the Weekly World News. As for Kennedy--well, I wasn't there, and I don't know, and yes it seems suspicious and anyone with that kind of money and political power gets away with about the same all the time. Doesn't make it right--that's just how it is.

There will be an election scandal, not because of anything Bush does, mind but more along the lines of the hell that John Kerry and his ilk will raise if they lose. They'll probably whine about a conspiracy if they win anyway.

Does it really matter?

In case you haven't noticed, there's a Skull and Bones monopoly on this election: nicely rounded-out with either cabinet full of Bilderberg agents...

Just so you know, no matter which way you vote, the IMF wins...
I can see it now . . .
Coming this Fall, from the twisted and normally empty mind of director Texastambul:
Kerry vs. Bush
Set in the early 21st century an elusive and secret fraternity that is so hidden and underground everybody knows about it seeks control of the universe, solar system, planet, continent, U.S., or maybe just a new fridge. To do so they have gather the eternal loyalty of two potential world leaders who were quite possibly members decades ago. As the two forces clash a bunch of teens are caught in the middle after discovering a number of dead war protestors and face huggers (make your own damn bottox jokes) in a court room buried beneath the Florida marshes. Will the Zombie of Massachusetts overcome the Redneck of Texas? Will every vote be counted? Will this plot synoposis contain many more questions? Will the conspiracy involve beer? Just whosse refrigerator would they steal? Does anyone care? Where did you get those shoes?
Kerry vs. Bush
Fall 2004
"Whoever wins . . . We lose."

I voted yes but not because of what happened in 2000! I do wish people would stop talking about that. People are tired of hearing it.

However, I do believe one is coming and so far it has already transpired in Florida and in Ohio regarding the voting machines.

In Florida, the Democratic party is trying to get the Seniors to vote absentee. However, I think that'll backfire. Another problem with this, and don't yell at me for this, but anyone can place a request for absentee then claim they didn't get one and put in for another one. Now your opening yourself up to more votes tallied than the state has on record. Not saying this will happen mind you but its something to think about.

In Ohio, the ACLU filed a lawsuit regarding the touch screen voting machines there. They claim they'll disenfrancize voters because of the error margin.

The scandal has already started. The question is, how far will it go this year!

I voted yes but not because of what happened in 2000! I do wish people would stop talking about that. People are tired of hearing it.

However, I do believe one is coming and so far it has already transpired in Florida and in Ohio regarding the voting machines.

In Florida, the Democratic party is trying to get the Seniors to vote absentee. However, I think that'll backfire. Another problem with this, and don't yell at me for this, but anyone can place a request for absentee then claim they didn't get one and put in for another one. Now your opening yourself up to more votes tallied than the state has on record. Not saying this will happen mind you but its something to think about.

In Ohio, the ACLU filed a lawsuit regarding the touch screen voting machines there. They claim they'll disenfrancize voters because of the error margin.

The scandal has already started. The question is, how far will it go this year!
Oh--so it's the Democratic party in Florida who's trying to get seniors to vote absentee? That's not what the South Florida Sun Sentinel says. (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-cabsentee30jul30,0,7600265.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines)
An embarrassed state Republican Party apologized Thursday for a GOP campaign brochure that urged voters to use absentee ballots, undermining efforts by Gov. Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Glenda Hood to inspire confidence in new touch-screen voting machines....

The Republican apology stemmed from a glossy mailer paid for by the GOP and sent to Miami voters in a hotly contested state House district primary race between two Republicans. Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach are among 15 counties who switched from punch-card ballots to touch-screens after the 2000 presidential recount.

The flier featured a smiling President George W. Bush and urged voters not to take a chance with the touch-screen machines.

"The liberal Democrats have already begun their attacks and the new electronic voting machines do not have a paper ballot to verify your vote in case of a recount," the front page of the mailer reads. "Make sure your vote counts, order your absentee ballot today."

Now look--I'm having a bit of fun with you here because I know that activists of all stripes, including Democratic ones, have been urging people to vote absentee because of the questions surrounding electronic voting. I'm just trying to show you that the issue is bipartisan--that both Democrats and Republicans are worried about the potential for election fraud here, and with good reason.

oh yes.... Bush is already trying to push for what happened in Florida into the rest of the states with the Help America Vote Act (HAVA).