NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/international/middleeast/25mide.html
Palestine is in complete turmoil, now. Several factions are warring against eachother, and as this article shows, the PA's authority is starting to slip. Hopefully, no one will use this as an oppritunity to attack Israel, because I fear that if the Israelis respond, it'll be catastrophic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/international/middleeast/25mide.html
Palestine is in complete turmoil, now. Several factions are warring against eachother, and as this article shows, the PA's authority is starting to slip. Hopefully, no one will use this as an oppritunity to attack Israel, because I fear that if the Israelis respond, it'll be catastrophic.

Isn't Arafat that dude who shook Carter's hand in 1979 and made peace with Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or whatever?

Isn't Arafat that dude who shook Carter's hand in 1979 and made peace with Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or whatever?
I think you mean Anwar Sadat.

Oh, yeah! My bad, bro!

Am I really this boring?

Probably not, but unless you start a thread on a really contentious subject (Bush/Kerry, Atheism/Theism, Abortion, Socialism/Capitalism/Anarchism etc) things get to be over looked.

Probably not, but unless you start a thread on a really contentious subject (Bush/Kerry, Atheism/Theism, Abortion, Socialism/Capitalism/Anarchism etc) things get to be over looked.
I guess so. As you can see, however, I never get a large audience.

And certainly if what you're saying is more or less correct. You shoulda posted something like, finally some rebellion in the palestine camp, now its time to attack them and kill them all :)

Seriously though. No matter how much Sharon wishes to get rid of Arafat, I think Arafat has been keeping the Palestines a little on the leash. And without a peace-minded replacing leader, I'm not sure what those guys are up to there. Not saying here that Arafat is an example leader, but he seems to be trying.

But Israel has been a mess since practically ever. And both parties are kinda screwing things up even more.

The palestinians havent had much chance to keep up a coherrent "goverment" for quite some time.
Im surprised we havent seen something like this earlier.

But the support for Arafat is greater then for any one contender.

If they loose him it will be much more turmoil as hamas,fata and others try to consolidate power.

I dont know what differance it will do tho as they are in the shit anyway.

The bigest chance for a solution in israel/palestine is a withdrawal of total us support from Israel, that will force the,m to the negotiontable.
Even tho that wount happen as that would be political suicide in the the US.

With the situation in Iraq unfolding it will be intresting to see what happens, if Iraq turns out to be a stable US ally maybe Israels importance will lessen and thus making it a possible "sacrifice" to placate the Islamic nations and to a lesser extent world oppinion.

This is just badly formated late night ramblings from a swede tho.


Flax

The palestinians havent had much chance to keep up a coherrent "goverment" for quite some time.
Im surprised we havent seen something like this earlier.

But the support for Arafat is greater then for any one contender.

If they loose him it will be much more turmoil as hamas,fata and others try to consolidate power.

I dont know what differance it will do tho as they are in the shit anyway.

The bigest chance for a solution in israel/palestine is a withdrawal of total us support from Israel, that will force the,m to the negotiontable.
Even tho that wount happen as that would be political suicide in the the US.

With the situation in Iraq unfolding it will be intresting to see what happens, if Iraq turns out to be a stable US ally maybe Israels importance will lessen and thus making it a possible "sacrifice" to placate the Islamic nations and to a lesser extent world oppinion.

This is just badly formated late night ramblings from a swede tho.


Flax
They both are now worse off. HAMAS has been a bit disabled for now, but I'm sure that some of their militants in Gaza are behind this. Israel won't be happy, and will really go to war there. What we are seeing from Israel is a little skirmish compared to what they can do. In short, this may lead to a war in the Middle East, and global terrorism would skyrocket.
However, should that happen, then I feel that NATO and UN troops must move in, to facilitate a withdrawl by Israel, while protecting their security. It'd also help the Palestinians to build their own state.

Yasser Arafat will never end, he's immortal, because his cause will live forever.

Yasser Arafat will never end, he's immortal, because his cause will live forever.
Sounds Orwellian. But then again, he may be just another political flavor in the Middle East, like Arab nationalism (and technically, that's what he's for). Once he'd dead, it'd be interesting to see if his cause dies with him. That is to say that the Palestinians won't stop fighting for their own state. But, will they try to push Israel back into the sea?

I just heard on CNN that the militants withdrew voluntarily, but I don't think this is the end.

I think you mean Anwar Sadat.
And, may I point out, Sadat made peace with Israel at Camp David.

As long as Arafat has a breath in his body he will continue his terrorism and evility. I say we just let the Palestinians and the Israelis duke it out, one-on-one and see who wins, no outside intervention for either side, just let the SOBs eradicate each other and we'll be done with that crisis. My $ is on Israel though and I do hope they win!

As long as Arafat has a breath in his body he will continue his terrorism and evility. I say we just let the Palestinians and the Israelis duke it out, one-on-one and see who wins, no outside intervention for either side, just let the SOBs eradicate each other and we'll be done with that crisis. My $ is on Israel though and I do hope they win!
I lean toward the Israelis myself. But I prefer to see a more peaceful solution from this. And I don't think that Sharon is the best prime minister in Israeli history.

I lean toward the Israelis myself. But I prefer to see a more peaceful solution from this. And I don't think that Sharon is the best prime minister in Israeli history.

Unfortunately, a peaceful solution over there is impossible. This is all these guys know is violence and the tale of a gun. There's no sense even trying to be peaceful about it because it is a waste of money, resources, and times.

Unfortunately, a peaceful solution over there is impossible. This is all these guys know is violence and the tale of a gun. There's no sense even trying to be peaceful about it because it is a waste of money, resources, and times.
It doesn't mean, however, that all-out war is the solution. In any case, however, I feel that the best thing for the conflict is if the barrier on the West Bank was completed.

It doesn't mean, however, that all-out war is the solution. In any case, however, I feel that the best thing for the conflict is if the barrier on the West Bank was completed.

Yes the wall must be completed. I love how the UN is whining about it as well as Europe and so on and so fourth but when the Berlin Wall went up it wasn't a problem. All of a sudden its inhumane and a human rights violation? Then what was the Berlin Wall, decoration?

Anyhow another thing I laugh about the situation is France and other European nations claiming that anti-semeiticsm is on the rise and it is a problem right. While the entire time the leadership blasts Israel left and right and blasts the Jews throughout France and Europe still. Ahh, the double-standard is fun.

Yes the wall must be completed. I love how the UN is whining about it as well as Europe and so on and so fourth but when the Berlin Wall went up it wasn't a problem. All of a sudden its inhumane and a human rights violation? Then what was the Berlin Wall, decoration?

Anyhow another thing I laugh about the situation is France and other European nations claiming that anti-semeiticsm is on the rise and it is a problem right. While the entire time the leadership blasts Israel left and right and blasts the Jews throughout France and Europe still. Ahh, the double-standard is fun.
The Berlin Wall was to keep East Berliners in East Germany. This wall, however, is to keep dangerous Palestinians out, and unlike the Berlin wall, one can pass through it (although it may take a while to do so).

Yes the wall must be completed. I love how the UN is whining about it as well as Europe and so on and so fourth but when the Berlin Wall went up it wasn't a problem. All of a sudden its inhumane and a human rights violation? Then what was the Berlin Wall, decoration?

Anyhow another thing I laugh about the situation is France and other European nations claiming that anti-semeiticsm is on the rise and it is a problem right. While the entire time the leadership blasts Israel left and right and blasts the Jews throughout France and Europe still. Ahh, the double-standard is fun.

Hmm i honestly dont think you should be complaining about duoble standards from over seas i mean you are the crowned champions, never the less theres a differance between antisemitism and antisionism which you refer to.

And yes we complaind about the wall.

And the israel bashing is justified as they are violating the most basic human rights.

And no I dont think the conflict are black/white but as a state you have a responsibility not to act criminaly.

A non suported israel wouldnt survive a war of attrition but they have a one of the worlds most proffesional armies they could maybe put a quick end to a war and if worst came to worst they have their nukes...

Imho a israel without the illegal settlers under another goverment back at its 1967 borders could very well live in peace with both its neigbours and the palestinians.


Flax

Imho a israel without the illegal settlers under another goverment back at its 1967 borders could very well live in peace with both its neigbours and the palestinians.


Flax

Even such would not be the case. The Palestinians want the Israelis completely out and the Arab world will stop at nothing to push them into the sea. The only way there can be peace there is without the Israelis being present. Unfortunately, that is the case and it is good that such will not occur but that's about it. Even if the Palestinians were removed, the rest of the Arab world would continue to use them as their battlecry against the Israelis (even though the Arab world hates the Palestinians as well).

I, for one, applaud Israel. They are a very brave, defiant nation.

I, for one, applaud Israel. They are a very brave, defiant nation.

Me too and they stick it to whoever opposes them and tells them what to do. Unfortunately though, they listen to us when we say don't kill Arafat. If only they would have been defiant then.

Me too and they stick it to whoever opposes them and tells them what to do. Unfortunately though, they listen to us when we say don't kill Arafat. If only they would have been defiant then.
The US has a policy of not executing heads of state...It just carried over.

The US has a policy of not executing heads of state...It just carried over.

Policies that need to be changed.

Policies that need to be changed.
Right to a trial...for non-citizens? Pssht. Especially those who commit mass murder. I agree.

Here, fishy fishy fishy!

*streaks through thread*

Right to a trial...for non-citizens? Pssht. Especially those who commit mass murder. I agree.

I say put two in their head right there, bill their family or country for the bullets, go home, and move on.

Me too and they stick it to whoever opposes them and tells them what to do. Unfortunately though, they listen to us when we say don't kill Arafat. If only they would have been defiant then.


because the only reason they can stick it to anyone is because of the united states. they are like the big bullies little brother who is only touch cuz he has back up. you wanna see isreal and the palestinians duke it out one on one? so do the isrealis get to keep their tens maybe hundreds of billions of dollars worth of donated american military hard wear, and do the palestinians get to keep their 50 era ak-47s and homemade rockets and medium sized rocks.

because the only reason they can stick it to anyone is because of the united states. they are like the big bullies little brother who is only touch cuz he has back up. you wanna see isreal and the palestinians duke it out one on one? so do the isrealis get to keep their tens maybe hundreds of billions of dollars worth of donated american military hard wear, and do the palestinians get to keep their 50 era ak-47s and homemade rockets and medium sized rocks.

Whoever said the world is a fair place. Maybe if the Palestinians weren't such terrorists (afterall, that's why Jordan threw them out of their country) then we wouldn't need to give Israel such impressive military technology. Maybe if the entire Arab world didn't want to destroy Israel and the fact that Israel is our one true allie over there, we wouldn't need to give her top of the line F-16s, F-15s, AIM-120s, etc.