NationStates Jolt Archive

Tit for tat...

Tit for tat...

BURRRRRRRP! Most evil? Gandhi! Why? 'Cause he's bald! (Seriously, bro.)

stalin or lenin i forget who i mean

Gengis Kahn

BURRRRRRRP! And don't forget Winston Churchill, bro! (Seriously.)

George W. Bush, ruler of the world.

George W. Bush, ruler of the world.

Bro, don't diss our best President EVER. You don't wanna miss me off, bro, seriously!

Hmm...

Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Jong-il, Kim Il-sung, Mussolini, Vidkun Quisling, Hideki Tojo, Behram, Georges Clemenceu, Souphanouvang, Castro, Himmler, Goebbels, Hess, Goerring, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev, Yelstin, Putin, bin Laden, Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, Deng Xiaoping, Daniel Ortega, Ahmed Ben Bella, Che Guevara, Tito, Nicolae Ceausescu, Ngo Dinh Diem, Ngo Dinh Nhu, Le Duc Tho, Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Karl Marx, Adam Weishaupt, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Friedrich Engels, Leon Trotsky, Nero, Draco, Nelson Mandela, Robert Mugabe, Kwame Nkrumah, Sekou Toure, Sukarno, Suharto, Ne Win, Muammar al-Quaddafi, Idi Amin, Yasser Arafat, Nehru, U Thant, Walter Ulbricht (that was his name, right? That East German dictator?), Kurt Waldheim, Kofi Annan, every other UN secretary-general, Patrice Lumumba, Mobuto Sese Seko (sp?)...

Stalin.

George W. Bush, ruler of the world.


Ahmmmm....George is an American...care to present a current Non-American?

Bro, don't diss our best President EVER. You don't wanna miss me off, bro, seriously!
hey, dont YOU diss our President.

Hmm...

Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Jong-il, Kim Il-sung, Mussolini, Vidkun Quisling, Hideki Tojo, Behram, Georges Clemenceu, Souphanouvang, Castro, Himmler, Goebbels, Hess, Goerring, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev, Yelstin, Putin, bin Laden, Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, Deng Xiaoping, Daniel Ortega, Ahmed Ben Bella, Che Guevara, Tito, that one Romanian dictator Nicolae-something, Ngo Dinh Diem, Ngo Dinh Nhu, Le Duc Tho, Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Karl Marx, Adam Weishaupt, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Friedrich Engels, Leon Trotsky, Nero, Draco, Nelson Mandela, Robert Mugabe, Kwame Nkrumah, Sekou Toure, Sukarno, Suharto, Ne Win, and many more I can't name off the top of my head...

The Romanian leader was Nicolae Ceausescu. What about Idi Amin, Augusto Pinochet, Muammar Gaddafi, Ferdinand Marcos, Milosovich and Hugo Chavez?

The Romanian leader was Nicolae Ceausescu. What about Idi Amin, Augusto Pinochet, Ferdinand Marcos, Milosovich and Hugo Chavez?

Ceausescu! Thanks, I forgot his last name! Yeah, I'll add him and Amin to my list...Hugo Chavez is the president of Venezuela, correct?

P.S. I won't comment on Pinochet. Last time I did, it started one looooooong argument that almost exploded into a flame war.

Oh yeah, that Nasser guy, an Egyptian president. Sorry, I'm not good with first names, I forgot his...

Why the hell is Lumumba up there? And Marx? And for that matter, Gorbachev? And who the bloody hell is Quisling? It sounds like you just thought up every moderately well known important foreign person off the top of your head and lumped them all together with Stalin, Hitler, etc.

And Mandela? In the words of the immortal Group X, WTF mate?

Why the hell is Lumumba up there? And Marx? And for that matter, Gorbachev? And who the bloody hell is Quisling? It sounds like you just thought up every moderately well known important foreign person off the top of your head and lumped them all together with Stalin, Hitler, etc.

Lumumba had the UN wage a war on Katanga just for seceding from the Congo...Marx...do you really have to ask? And Gorbachev's regime slaughtered over 500,000 Afghanis, continued to sponsor terrorism and revolution around the world, had tens of thousands of people locked in the gulags, and, in spite of his friendly smile, differed little from his predecessors... Quisling was a fascist Norwegian traitor who the Nazis installed as head of a puppet government during WWII.

And Mandela? In the words of the immortal Group X, WTF mate?

He was a brutal killer. He was the leader of the terroristic African National Congress, which murdered thousands of blacks in order to terrorize them into submission, instigated riots against the South African government which caused innumerable deaths (mostly blacks, surprise surprise), etc.

Ever heard of 'necklacing?' Mandela and his thugs used to do it to anticommunist blacks. I'll explain the process:

1.Tie the victim's hands with barbed wire
2.Soak a tire in gasoline and put it around the victim's neck
3.Make the victim drink gasoline
4.Set victim on fire
5.Taunt victim as he burns to death

This is an interesting thread...I'd like to see more people's opinions WITHOUT FLAMING.

(I'm not saying anyone did flame, I'm just saying that usually these kind of threads degenerate into flame wars)

Ohh, yes. Hence the term, "quisling". So your beef with Lumumba is that when a part of his country formed its own army and tried it break away, he fought back? Didn't the US do pretty much the same thing a century and a half ago?

Seriously man, what do you think would happen if let's say.. Maine, Vermont, and Massachusets suddenly decided they didn't wanna be part of the country anymore? "Screw this 'union' crap, here's a big fuuuuck you to Washington from the People's Republic of New England!" You think that would end happily? Secondly, that "independance movement" was engineered by the Union Miniere du Haut Katanga, the monopoly that controlled %60 of the Congo's economic output at the time, and the Belgian government with the help of wealthy plantation owners. Unless you can show he was completely unjustified and he intentionally committed atrocities, he don't belong there.

Marx was an economist and a philosopher. Don't blame him if a few dumbasses thought that "Workers should own the means of production!" means "single party dictatorship with nice, spacious gulags for political dissidents." It makes as much sense as pointing the figure at Jesus for the Crusades.

Ohh, yes. Hence the term, "quisling". So your beef with Lumumba is that when a part of his country formed its own army and tried it break away, he fought back? Didn't the US do pretty much the same thing a century and a half ago?

Seriously man, what do you think would happen if let's say.. Maine, Vermont, and Massachusets suddenly decided they didn't wanna be part of the country anymore? "Screw this 'union' crap, here's a big fuuuuck you to Washington from the People's Republic of New England!" You think that would end happily? Secondly, that "independance movement" was engineered by the Union Miniere du Haut Katanga, the monopoly that controlled %60 of the Congo's economic output at the time, and the Belgian government with the help of wealthy plantation owners. Unless you can show he was completely unjustified and he intentionally committed atrocities, he don't belong there.

Marx was an economist and a philosopher. Don't blame him if a few dumbasses thought that "Workers should own the means of production!" means "single party dictatorship with nice, spacious gulags for political dissidents." It makes as much sense as pointing the figure at Jesus for the Crusades.

You make some good points...however, I'd appreciate it if you'd cut the flaming and try to watch your language.

Question about your reference to "anticommunist blacks". Since when was Nelson Mandela a Communist? And when did anything his government did bear even the vaguest resemblance to communism? That reference seems to call your whole claim into question.

I don't consider that flaming. Flaming is a personal attack. I just tend to speak, um, strongly, and if that irks you I apologize and I'll try to do it less. Still, I have not insulted your appearance, mocked your intellect, or question your parentage.

Question about your reference to "anticommunist blacks". Since when was Nelson Mandela a Communist? And when did anything his government did bear even the vaguest resemblance to communism? That reference seems to call your whole claim into question.

He was a communist since at least the mid-60's. The vast majority of ANC members belong to the South African Communist Party, which has dominated the ANC for decades.

I don't consider that flaming. Flaming is a personal attack. I just tend to speak, um, strongly, and if that irks you I apologize and I'll try to do it less. Still, I have not insulted your appearance, mocked your intellect, or question your parentage.

Hmmm...good point.

Some good books I'd recommend are: Inside the ANC, Vol. I: The Evolution of a Terrorist Organization; Politics By Other Means: The ANC's War on South Africa; and Red Star Over Southern Africa, all by Morgan Norval. I'll try to think of some more books soon.

Hmmmm, I guess I'd have to say, compared to what? To Arafat, it's Sharon and vice-versa. If I say Osama, would you counter with Bush? And flaming, well, some idiot is BOUND to take offense at anything he doesn't agree with. Ultimately, anyone's opinion is only a guess, frequently not a very well informed one, either. After all, none of us can know more than our government will permit us to know---National Security and all that rot, you realize. Personally, I fear we are ALL being corrupted. Look at what Rush Limbaugh had to say about Abu Ghairib. "No worse than a fraternity prank". Sure, and he didn't go to college, either. It's not "evil", or who "is or isn't", but our seemingly infinite capacity to adjust ourselves to whatever the moral status-quo happens to be that scares ME about this world.

OK. It is true that there were communists in the African National Congress, but that was because it was a tri-party political alliance. Their main deal was opposing apartheid, and let's face it, there weren't any black people in South Africa who figured apartheid to be a good idea. Why, then, would they need to "necklace" people who by and large supported them %100 (or the PAC, different ideology, same goals).

And it is true that under apartheid they commited guerilla attacks against government targets, but in an atmosphere of total political and economic repression, I feel they could be justified if civilians didn't tend to be targets of such acts. Frankly, I've heard of the practice you described, but never in connection to the ANC.

Adolph Hitler.

Vlad Dracula, also known as Vlad the Impaler.

In reply to yesterdays thread, Quisling was a Norwegian Nazi, who willingly complied with the Germans in the invasion of his own country. His name then became synonimous with being a traitor.

I ran a search on this Morgan Norval guy. Turns out, he's an ultra-right wing, pro-colonial mercenary and former marine who fought against the ANC.. and the apartheid government. Quite frankly if he's the only person making these accusations, I don't really trust him very much at all.

Jesus

I ran a search on this Morgan Norval guy. Turns out, he's an ultra-right wing, pro-colonial mercenary and former marine who fought against the ANC.. and the apartheid government. Quite frankly if he's the only person making these accusations, I don't really trust him very much at all.

He's not. I'll go check the names of the rest of my sources.

Roach, why do you say that Kwame Nkrumah was evil? I'm not flaming you, I just don't know much about him.

Roach, why do you say that Kwame Nkrumah was evil? I'm not flaming you, I just don't know much about him.

No, you're not flaming. Neither was UWA (sorry I accused you, though, UWA). Nkrumah was a brutal one-party dictator. I don't know much about him, though, either, but I read that in an ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra leftist book that normally praises dictators, so if it says he's bad...well, maybe he was...

I checked some sites and it seems you are right Roach. I didn't realize that he declared himself President for Life and imprisoned thousands of innocent people.

"Morgan Norval, a former U. S. Marine and graduate of the American University, is the Executive Director of the Selous Foundation, a Washington D. C. think tank that studies unconventional war, terrorism and the collapse of societies and cultures.

He has been actively involved in counterinsurgency operations against communist-supported terrorist movements in southern Africa. His experiences and expertise have been documented in eight published books, four on Africa"

That's from his website. "Counterinsurgency operations against communist-supported terrorist movements" includes, by his own admition, operations against the ANC. And since we certainly didn't have marines in the area.. what else was he at the time?

Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Pol Pot, and other various and assorted dictators...

On another note, I would say Hirohito, which is an interesting discussion topic.

Anyone who has the gall to insult our government!

:sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

*cough cough*Hitler*cough cough*

Stalin.

/thread

It's unoriginal, but Hitler and Stalin top my list...Hitler winning by a small margin.