NationStates Jolt Archive

'Nuff said!

I challenge anyone to disagree. Chances are, I'll convince 'em they're wrong!

HA! That's what I (BURRRRRRRRRP!) thought! You all know I'm RIGHT.

To see your evidence, I challenge you!

to the death!

One moment, please...

I do also challenge you. :sniper:

GW is hardly the best president ever - I challenge you wholeheartedly, on the basis he is a dangerous idiot.

and i, too, challenge you.

Lessee...

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

He's tough on terrorism...

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Need I say more?

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

Source?

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

See above.

Lessee...

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

He's tough on terrorism...

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Need I say more?

*dies laughing

Dude, they say so on, like, every website! (Seriously.)

I challenge you as well. Bush has done nothng but harm this country, it's people, and it's international reputation.

I think I shall also challenge you to prove this assertion. I rather think he is among the worst Presidents ever, and is probably one of the worst Presidents you could hope for.

I have a poster full of stupid things he has said, some of my favourites include...

They misunderestimated me.
I'm sure you can imagine it's an unimaginable honour to live here.
I do not belive we have put a single guilty I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas.

...and my favourite...

It's clearly a budget it's got a lot of numbers in it.

Nuff said.

Link'em here.

*dies laughing

Numbers don't lie, bro! I dunno WHY you're laughing.

I have a poster full of stupid things he has said, some of my favourites include...

They misunderestimated me.
I'm sure you can imagine it's an unimaginable honour to live here.
I do not belive we have put a single guilty I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas.

...and my favourite...

It's clearly a budget it's got a lot of numbers in it.

Nuff said.

You made those quotes up! :mad:

I'm curious where you are getting these figures, as according to every economic report, they're grossly inaccurate. As of March, the US's unemployment rate was at 12.6%, the highest it has been since the Great Depression. Inflation was on the rise. Bush had lost 2.2 million jobs since taking office. Job growth was a meager 1000 new jobs a month.

So, 2.2 million lost their jobs, 1000 new jobs a month, how many months before those 2.2 million regain employment?

Nuff said.

Jesus Christ!! Someone thinks Dubyah is great!!! I'd rather the land of the Fat and the Dumb was ruled by an old cheese sandwich.

I'm curious where you are getting these figures, as according to every economic report, they're grossly inaccurate. As of March, the US's unemployment rate was at 12.6%, the highest it has been since the Great Depression. Inflation was on the rise. Bush had lost 2.2 million jobs since taking office. Job growth was a meager 1000 new jobs a month.

So, 2.2 million lost their jobs, 1000 new jobs a month, how many months before those 2.2 million regain employment?

Nuff said.

Dude, you obviously got the numbers from Clinton mixed up with the numbers from Bush. No offense, but seriously, your statistics are like WAY off!

Dude, they say so on, like, every website! (Seriously.)
Why don't you provide some then?

You got that right.
he is the best national leader today.

Dude, just go to CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC...I don't remember exactly what page of those websites, but they are THERE. Check 'em out and you'll see I'm right!

You got that right.
he is the best national leader today.

See! This dude agrees with me!

Ha! You all know I'm right, don'cha? That's why none of you are postin' nothing else! :p

No I didn't I bought the poster in Virgin.

Oh and did I mention...

I've coined new words like misunderestimated and hispanically.
I know how hard it is to put food on your family.
and There is no question that the minuit I was elected the stormclouds on the horizon were almost dirrectly overhead.

Would you like me to continue?

Source?



See above.
Clinton never obeyed the constitution. He ran america like a dictatorship

Lessee...

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

He's tough on terrorism...

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Need I say more?


Hmmm, as someone not in the US, may I assure you that world opinion of the US has not imroved over the last four years. Quite the opposite. If by "every website" you mean George Bush's homepage I suggest you cast your net a little wider.

Your economy had been booming for years until he got into office, unemployment went sky high, it is only now in the final death throws of his term that it is coming back under control.

As for defict spending, are you kidding? Seriously, under Clinton the books were in the black and now every year the deficit is growing, spiralling even - what on earth are you talking about?

I think in ten years it will be hard to argue against the war in Iraq (but I could yet be proven wrong by prolonged mishandling) but it has not done anything for the war on terror. The opposite I expect. As for preventing another 11 September style attack, the latest report says to expect more severe attacks because of a general mishandling of the war.

eh, dude, the US does not have a 300% approval rating.

No I didn't I bought the poster in Virgin.

Oh and did I mention...

I've coined new words like misunderestimated and hispanically.
I know how hard it is to put food on your family.
and There is no question that the minuit I was elected the stormclouds on the horizon were almost dirrectly overhead.

Would you like me to continue?

Dude, I don't mean to sound like a jerko, but you shouldn't ought to make stuff up about people, you know? It ain't nice!

Hmmm, as someone not in the US, may I assure you that world opinion of the US has not imroved over the last four years. Quite the opposite. If by "every website" you mean George Bush's homepage I suggest you cast your net a little wider.

Your economy had been booming for years until he got into office, unemployment went sky high, it is only now in the final death throws of his term that it is coming back under control.

As for defict spending, are you kidding? Seriously, under Clinton the books were in the black and now every year the deficit is growing, spiralling even - what on earth are you talking about?

I think in ten years it will be hard to argue against the war in Iraq (but I could yet be proven wrong by prolonged mishandling) but it has not done anything for the war on terror. The opposite I expect. As for preventing another 11 September style attack, the latest report says to expect more severe attacks because of a general mishandling of the war.

Nuh-uh, bro. You got Bush and Clinton mixed up. Seriously. If Bush is bad at fighting terrorism, how come there ain't been no terrorist attacks since 9/11?

eh, dude, the US does not have a 300% approval rating.

I didn't say it did. I said the world approval rating INCREASED 300%.

Nuh-uh, bro. You got Bush and Clinton mixed up. Seriously. If Bush is bad at fighting terrorism, how come there ain't been no terrorist attacks since 9/11?
remember they could still be planning one. And there have been attacks on americans. just none of them have been on US territory.
Also, I consider the DC sniper and the anthrax attacks to be acts of terrorism.

It is all true I just looked at it again and their is a website address.

If you don't believe me look at www.gbposters.com and that should (hopefully) prove I'm right.

Two million jobs were lost in his first two years in the presidency, and he cut benefits to the unemployed.

He spent billions on a war that was opposed by hundreds of millions worldwide.

Bush spent the surplus and then bankrupted the Treasury.

This is good...?




World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

He's tough on terrorism...

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Need I say more?

Yes. Please. Elaborate. And back up your answers.

It is all true I just looked at it again and their is a website address.

If you don't believe me look at www.gbposters.com and that should (hopefully) prove I'm right.

Dude, you don't have to agree with me, but you shouldn't oughtta make up quotes like that, 'cause Bush ain't never said none of those things. His IQ, is like, 167, ain't it? Seriously!

Two million jobs were lost in his first two years in the presidency, and he cut benefits to the unemployed.

He spent billions on a war that was opposed by hundreds of millions worldwide.

Bush spent the surplus and then bankrupted the Treasury.

This is good...?




Yes. Please. Elaborate. And back up your answers.

Dude, I said BUSH not CLINTON. So I don't need to elaborate.

Dude, you obviously got the numbers from Clinton mixed up with the numbers from Bush. No offense, but seriously, your statistics are like WAY off!

Oh really? You might wish to tell that to Mr. Bush, as those #'s are culled from Bush's own economic reports.

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...
Unemployment is now at 2.98%...
Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...
World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...
He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...
He's tough on terrorism...
He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Wow... *cheks the date...hmm no it is not april 1st"

Lessee...

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...


To lazy to find the rate when he took office, then do the maths.

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

"Dude, they're like on every website," not this one:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/02/news/economy/jobless_june/index.htm

;)

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

Link me, I'm lazy

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

Don't even need to google this one. Clinton wasn't that hated.

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

Yeah that is why the previous 50 or so were all inpeached :rolleyes:

He's tough on terrorism...

How?

The traffic light system doesn't do it for me.

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Do you have some evidence that there definately was going to be another 9/11 style attack within the US?

Need I say more?[/QUOTE]

Yes, a lot more.

Why don't you guys believe me? :(

Im going to vote for Bush :cool:

To lazy to find the rate when he took office, then do the maths.



Yes, a lot more.

Dude, go to Google News. You'll see it all there for yourself. Clinton's world approval ratings were, like, -2.7% 'cause of when he bombed Liberia.

I'm not even an American, but:


Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

No cite, no source, no thanks. In fact, as of July 2004 unemployment is at 5.6% - cite (http://www.1loansusa.com/charts/uneploymentrate.html).

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...
I call BS. Clinton may have had a BJ and blown up some aspirin factories, but no-one pisses off the French and the middle east like Bush.

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...
Wrong. The Patriot Act steamrolls over the fourth amendment. Guantanamo Bay mean anything?

He's tough on terrorism...
...creating terrorism, that is. Ham fisted foreign policy in the middle east = more recruiting power for bin Laden and his cronies, not to mention radical clerics et al.

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...
How? The unproven link between 9/11 and Iraq (cite: recently released 9/11 report) or phantom WMDs that can't be found?

Need I say more?
How about: yes! Your argument is unconvincing to say the least.

Edit because I can't work the quote tags.

Dude, I said BUSH not CLINTON. So I don't need to elaborate.

I was talking about Bush.

Dude, it's on, like, every news page online!

I was talking about Bush.

Then you obviously got them two mixed up!

Dude, go to Google News. You'll see it all there for yourself. Clinton's world approval ratings were, like, -2.7% 'cause of when he bombed Liberia.
Tried that, got rubbish.

Anyway, you are meant to be convinving us. You back up your claims with reliable sources. Don't get us to do it.

Xenial I think Fat Smell B****** is just trying to annoy us by not believing us.

Sorry if I'm wrong but otherwise please stop it as it is very annoying.

Then you obviously got them two mixed up!

You did. If you want to make such assertions, be prepared to back them up.

Okay? Don't waste our time, your opponents are backing theirs.

Dude, it's on, like, every news page online!
Then it should be a simple matter of copy and paste then surely?

Bush even said on TV: "Our economy is strong and it is getting stronger!"

He wouldn't lie to the American people like that jerko Clinton would!

Hrm... while agree that Bush is certainly a good president, he hardly the best ever. Contenders for that title include George Washington and... well... George Washington. He was by far the greatest American president for many reasons, none of which I care to elaborate on. Other top-notch presidents we've had include John Adams, James Polk (who is by far the most underrated president ever), Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Ronald Reagan. George Bush is, in my opinion, in a category right below the aforementioned.

His IQ, is like, 167, ain't it?
Not quite... he did graduate from Yale and get his MBA at Harvard, but he's not exactly a genius.

And yes, George has said quite a few ridiculous things in his time as president. For documentation, check out www.dubyaspeak.com - it has references for the times and dates on which he said things, and even has a bunch of recordings of stupid things he's said.

It should be noted, though, that being a bad public speaker does not make one a bad leader; Bush has done a good job as leader, and insulting his speaking ability is specious argumentation.

Fine, then, don't believe me! I'm gonna go have a beer! GOOD-bye. :sniper:

Bush even said on TV: "Our economy is strong and it is getting stronger!"

He wouldn't lie to the American people like that jerko Clinton would!


Because, you know, there really _are_ WMDs... right?

I didn't say it did. I said the world approval rating INCREASED 300%.

You are not going to win anyone over my friend, but at the same time, we will clearly not win you over, as you have latched on to nonsensicle figures that are grossly in error, are likely to be fabrications, and you are presenting them as fact. When anyone else provides you with contractory figures, you accuse them of mixing them up with those for Clinton's reign.

Here are some figures from the Economist magazine: (Read economic indicator 2000 2001 2002 2003)

GDP (% real change pa) 3.66 0.51 2.19 3.12
Government consumption (% of GDP) 17.54 17.97 18.44 18.72
Budget balance (% of GDP) 2.44 1.27 -1.52 -3.46
Consumer prices (% change pa; av) 3.37 2.83 1.58 2.28
Public debt (% of GDP) 57.98 57.47 59.75 62.43
Recorded unemployment (%) 3.98 4.76 5.78 5.99
Current-account balance/GDP -4.19 -3.90 -4.59 -4.90

Minimal economic growth. Increasing government consumption. Ballooning budget deficit, from what was a heathy surplus. Marginal improvement in inflation. Swiftly increasing public debt levels. Massive increases in unemployment. Worsening current accounts situation.

Numbers don't lie, as you so elegantly stated yourself.

Are you serious? Bush wants people to vote vore for him if he said "to be honestified the Bushe Regima has an awful economish" would he?

He wouldn't lIe to the American people. WHAT HASN'T HE LIED ABOUT! did i mention the war in Iraq? did i mention the patriot act?

Ok guys I have no hard evidence to back this up apart from what I've seen,
If Bush is soooo popular, why the hell was there so many protests against the war? Millions and millions of people protested against it! I don't think that going ahead with it did him a favour in the popularity polls! Also, music, man, music. There are whole albums dedicated to the sole purpose of dislodging Bush from president. e.g. Rock against Bush, the War on Errorism, Most of NOFX's new material. It seems to me that everyone hates Bush. Also for the best Bush quotes, I think that "The problem with the French is that they have no word for entrepeneur" pretty much beats them all.

p.s. I'm Scottish so don't try and foist the unpatriotic thing onto me.

BUSH SUCKS!!

Yes Bush is unpopular with many but the sad thing is that most of us Americans don't want to be bothered to go out and vote this scumbag out of office.

"The problem with the French is that they have no word for entrepeneur"

Yeah, heh heh. That's a great quote.

I like "Do you have black people in Brazil too?"

I'm wondering if fat smelly bastard was having us on though. Who in their right mind would believe that world opinion of the US has improved over the last couple of years.

Who in their right mind would believe that world opinion of the US has improved over the last couple of years.

FSB, apparently.

Lo fucking l, fat smelly bastard, I have never, ever in my many years prowling the internet, seen a forum-poster as ignorant and misinformed as yourself. I hope you're 13, 'cause if you're not, the only explanation for your misconceptions about Bush is catastrophic stupidity. I'll come back later with sources, but I assure you, the following facts are undebated.

-Post 9/11, everyone loved the U.S.
-Practically everyone hates the U.S. now
-During Bush's reign, 2.5 million jobs have been lost
-There was no Iraq/9/11 connection
-Bush has added almost $1,000,000,000,000 to the national debt
-Bush has cut benefits for veterens
-Bush is a former alcoholic
-Bush is a former crack-addict

I actually suspect that you're actually a liberal just trying to make people hate conservatives even more.

Crawlstaler is right, I have rock against Bush and almost every song is about the problems with his government.

Lo fucking l, fat smelly bastard, I have never, ever in my many years prowling the internet, seen a forum-poster as ignorant and misinformed as yourself. I hope you're 13, 'cause if you're not, the only explanation for your misconceptions about Bush is catastrophic stupidity. I'll come back later with sources, but I assure you, the following facts are undebated.

-Post 9/11, everyone loved the U.S.
-Practically everyone hates the U.S. now
-During Bush's reign, 2.5 million jobs have been lost
-There was no Iraq/9/11 connection
-Bush has added almost $1,000,000,000,000 to the national debt
-Bush has cut benefits for veterens
-Bush is a former alcoholic
-Bush is a former crack-addict

I actually suspect that you're actually a liberal just trying to make people hate conservatives even more.

$1,000,000,000,000? I thought he added a lot more than that!

F**K Bush! Thats all I have to say.

I don't like John Kerry that much either (I'm communist and to me they seem very similar as Kerry is also quite right wing and votted in favour of Iraq) but even he is better than Bush

I don't like John Kerry that much either (I'm communist and to me they seem very similar as Kerry is also quite right wing and votted in favour of Iraq) but even he is better than Bush

*nod* I prefer Nadar to Kerry, but I hate Bush more than I like Nadar... so... Yeah, I'm goin' Kerry.

F**K Bush! Thats all I have to say.

(Room bursts into loud applause)

'Nuff said!

No Reagan was. Bush is a moron and although I liked the guy at the start of his term, this nonsense of him caving into the World Court and his other stupid policies (i.e. immigration) make me very unhappy that he is the only Republican candidate on the market for the Presidency. Oh well, I'll just have to swallow it and vote for the centrist Dubya. He still is going to be better than Mr. Flip-Fop, Bandade Wound, I love Al Qaida, Kerry.

I don't like John Kerry that much either (I'm communist and to me they seem very similar as Kerry is also quite right wing and votted in favour of Iraq) but even he is better than Bush

Dude, if you are a communist, then why don't you like Kerry? He's EXTREMELY pro-communist. Check out www.hanoijohnkerry.com and its many, many links.

Dude, seriously - you're giving a horrible name to other people who support Bush and the Republican Party and conservatives in general. In my opinion, Bush isn't the worse president: he's a man of conviction, and though I don't believe in some of his policies, he is able to make decisions and he is a leader.

That aside, I'd say Kerry might make one of the worst presidents with his economic policies alone. He would limit outsourcing, disabling corporations from creating low-priced goods that would help the consumers who drive the economy...(that's us)...He would be harsh on big business, and punish the rich disporportionately in comparison to others...for the simple fact that they're rich, never mind how hard they worked to get there. He would raise taxes to hurt small business so as to create social welfare and medicare when corporations would probably do a better job...his anti-business, socialist economic policies would hurt corporations and consumers, the driving forces behind a strong economy. So consider that or correct me if I'm wrong.

Bush isn't the best president, either (how would you quantify that?) There are some things about him I don't like at all...but when the only choice we have is a controversial Bush and Frankenstein redux...

FWB, why are you trying to convince other people that they're wrong? So long as they have an educated opinion, you should respect it. You could give your opinion on things, but you needn't try to undermine other people's philoshopies.


$1,000,000,000,000? I thought he added a lot more than that!


I'll try to dig up a source regarding the Bush national debt.


If Bush is soooo popular, why the hell was there so many protests against the war? Millions and millions of people protested against it! I don't think that going ahead with it did him a favour in the popularity polls! Also, music, man, music. There are whole albums dedicated to the sole purpose of dislodging Bush from president. e.g. Rock against Bush, the War on Errorism, Most of NOFX's new material. It seems to me that everyone hates Bush. Also for the best Bush quotes, I think that "The problem with the French is that they have no word for entrepeneur" pretty much beats them all.

p.s. I'm Scottish so don't try and foist the unpatriotic thing onto me.


Oh, so it's popularity that matters? I hope you're joking. If, like John Kerry, all he cared about was popularity...well, I shudder to think what state this nation would be in.

As for music albums...it's amazing to me how politically apathetic some musicians are. I watched a clip of Britney Spears voicing her support for Bush, and it couldn't have struck me more how much it seemed that she had no clue what she was talking about. And P Diddy trying to get 'sexy voters...' what the .... ?!


I prefer Nadar to Kerry


Much as I hate to admit it, me too. I think Nader's policies are as bad for this nation as they go, but he's committed to them...and in the face of all this media BS directed at him, he's still unwavering. If anything, you have to respect his character for that.


I'm wondering if fat smelly bastard was having us on though. Who in their right mind would believe that world opinion of the US has improved over the last couple of years.


World opinion would be fueled by the media. So no, it hasn't improved, unfortunately.

Dude, seriously - you're giving a horrible name to other people who support Bush and the Republican Party and conservatives in general. In my opinion, Bush isn't the worse president: he's a man of conviction, and though I don't believe in some of his policies, he is able to make decisions and he is a leader.

That aside, I'd say Kerry might make one of the worst presidents with his economic policies alone. He would limit outsourcing, disabling corporations from creating low-priced goods that would help the consumers who drive the economy...(that's us)...He would be harsh on big business, and punish the rich disporportionately in comparison to others...for the simple fact that they're rich, never mind how hard they worked to get there. He would raise taxes to hurt small business so as to create social welfare and medicare when corporations would probably do a better job...his anti-business, socialist economic policies would hurt corporations and consumers, the driving forces behind a strong economy.

Agreed. But then, what else would you expect from a pro-communist?

*He still is going to be better than Mr. Flip-Fop, Bandade Wound, I love Al Qaida, Kerry*

Yes - god forbid you have a President intelligent enough to see both sides of a complex problem. That could get you into all sorts of trouble. Almost as much trouble as having a President that's actually been to war, and might have some idea of what he's letting his troops in for when he sends them overseas. The only thing that could be worse than that is if you had a President that focused the efforts of the military and of the security and intelligence services on actually tagetting terrorists. I mean, then, you might catch Bin Laden, and with no boogey man, Jo Public might realise how awful the economy is. No end of potential trouble...

Egads, someone actually announced the truth, that Kerry does lean toards the right-end of the spectrum, along with Edwards. However, I'd trust Kerry more than Nader at this point. After all, Nader's #1 contributors are, just incidentally I'm sure, top contributors to George W.

In the end, follow the money.

Please tell me this is sarcasm....

Since Bush was elected he has managed to piss off damn near every nation in the world. I have been to Europe before and after his election and I am currently in Italy for the summer. That 300% increase in popularity better be a horrific joke......

To put it entirely bluntly, Americans are DESPISED in practicly every part of the world. We were looked down on previously but this idea of Europe looking down on us like a little dog that crapped on the rug has more or less turned to Europe looking at us like a basterd son that they wish they never had. Bush has done next to nothing to REALLY aid national security against a home based terrorism threat. See a US airport lately? Thats all I have to say, the security is BARELY better then pre 9-11. The Swiss have had vastly better airport security for about a decade, yet the Swiss have not fought a foreign threat since the Napoleonic Wars period or perhaps the Neuchatel crisis though that was more or less internal.

America, and Americans have a feeling of absolute power and superiority which is one of the most pathetic things in human history. The American education system is practicly worthless, I went through it. The only time that I learned in school since the 7th grade or so was on exchanges.

Dont get me wrong, I may sound like an America bashing liberal but I am an extremely right wing conservative. I dislike leftism however I hate stupidity, especially when this stupidity has power. Basically most of the world leaders of our time are practicly worthless compared to previous ones however Bush is by far the worst, and perhaps the most uneducated or simply mentally incapable man to hold the leadership of a major Western nation since the Medieval period.

His cabinet is not very good except for maybe Powell, and Rumself is by far the worst being the average I am Vastly Better then Everyone because I am American type. About him averting further 9-11 style attacks, what has he REALLY done? He tossed some people in office that arrested some cells that they knew about for AGES and just thought....Hmm they dont have the capabilities to do much.....
His other so called prevention of terrorism was the annexation and liberation of Iraq as a US satellite. Saddam was by no means a religious extremist, and the only terrorism that he supported was against Israel. ( The only reason that I support the invasion of Iraq is because it hurt US standing, and gave Israel more breathing room ) How can taking Iraq prevent terrorism? Well as a whole it cant however the funny thing is that it directed the efforts of practicly every Islamic group on earth towards a spot where they can go all out against a major power a la Russia in Afghanistan. Perhaps this will stop home front terrorism in an unexpected way since Islam will be united in an attempt to free Iraq, or perhaps it will not attract such aforementioned attention and one is still coming.

Clinton was by no means a good leader however I have to place him above Bush. Bush is stupid, surrounded by unqualified fools like Rumseld. The war on Iraq would have been far more justified if Rumseld just came out and said...They have WMDs because I was the diplomat who finalized the sale of them to Iraq! I think that Bush will end up getting reelected because of the stupidity of the American people however Kerry is simply the lesser of two evils and he could be worse....if that is possible....

On a final unrelated note

Reinstate the draft! Just about every nation in Europe has a mandatory draft and they have next to no threat of war. Europeans still have true national pride. The kind of pride that modern Americans have seems to make them think that sacrafice in war time amounts to, as said in an artical I read recently, sacraficing 4 square inches of their car window for a United we Stand sign.

All grammar issues are because I couldnt find the proper symbols on this Euro keyboard.

Justin

OOC: lol, you obviously haven't seen F-9/11

Whomever thinks that george bush is one of the best presidents, either does not know much about history, or is just to damn lazy to read up on the present.....which is understood if you are a ignorant, lazy selfish amaerican. Its no stereotype if it is shown every day....good job usa for showing your ass....every empire will fall.....todays empire is tomorrows ashes.
knowledge is power, arm yourself

Lessee...

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

He's tough on terrorism...

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Need I say more?


He is also the one who made sure every god damn capitalist-f**khead in his administration made som HUGE bucks on September 11th and the war in Iraq.
And how can you say "He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11..."? Open your eyes! The only link between Iraq and Al-Qaida is that they both have a Q in their name. And I don't understand...why attack a small, innocent middle-eastern country, that has NO weapons of mass destruction? Remember, USA has more biological, nuclear, and chemical weapons than the rest of the world together. I would like to see USA deestroy their weapons instead of bullying small countries, just because they have a different color of skin and has another name for God. But what can you expect? A capitalistic retarded redneck with to much power in his hands...It just has to go wrong.

And don't come telling me "Saddam tortured his people" and bla bla bla, because you don't know what the CIA is doing. Neither do I. That's scary.
What's even scarier is that stupid "Right to carry arms"-thingy. No wonder there are over 11.000 murders by gunshot in the USA each year, while there's not even 11.000 murders in Europe each year. And when you have a president , that by the way could easily have been replaced by an orangutang, that has to coup the election, and lie to his fellow citizens, and go to war with a small, innocent country to fill up his wallet...it says alot about this "president". He's just a loony with to much power, a big ego, small brains, and a a big mouth.

Now, for this years election, I don't really like John Kerry, or Bush, since they both support Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But really, since I am a democratic socialist, and dislike capitalism, I support Kerry. Too bad I'm not an American citizen, and can't vote. But really, rather Kerry than Bush. As a matter of fact, I think Kerry has a brain.

As for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, check this out: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~ghouli/cnn.jpg

Thanks...

Ok - Clinton worked tirelessly on the Israel/Palestine reformation, creating better relations, and less mass genocide between neighbors. What has Bush done besides use them to try to better his image in the Middle East which has become a pile of rubble since Bush began his focus on the area - so I really don't think they have a good opinion of him - except the Saudis, many citizens have been linked to terrorism with a lot stauncher evidence than we had against Sadaam (connection to Al-qaida? weapons of mass destruction - where?) and he gave them the plans for the war on Iraq before giving them to Colin Powell. As many have said almost no one supported us in that war and just because the US itself has not been attacked majorly - though there was that subway bombing in NYC a few days ago and what about our allies such as Spain and that big terrorist attack there not that long ago..and all those alerts we're on constantly which people either ignore or become total paranoid lifeless freaks over. Then there are also those 9 points where the government was and STILL IS lacking in protecting it's citizens, found by the 9/11 commission. Ok enough of my Middle Eastern Studies major lecturing you - here's the economy major... we have 8 million more people out of work then there was 4 years ago, we went from a surplus to a deficit almost overnight. Although he acted quickly in attacking Iraq, thats all he has done in a timely manner, his plan for iraq has taken far longer than it should have, mainly due to terrible planning of the figures and man power involved. Sadly he has also brought our youth to deaths door, being murdered in cold cowardly ways by people who just want to govern themselves. Now the lack of Bush's vision has taken billions of dollars of money which could be used at home to improve our economic meltdown, end cuts on education, create jobs, etc (I won't even go into what those billions could have done for the America people). And you say Clinton ran the country as a dictator? What about how Bush is taking away human rights and replacing them with privacy invasion which "supposed" to protect Americans - but really makes them slaves to a President who wasn't elected by the majority of Americans. O and by the way he can't best a pretzel how will he overcome a deficit!!
So, yeah -he's the best President ever? Hardly. I hope I never see the day his face is on a piece of paper that we call money and if he re-elected we're moving to another country because we don't want to see first-hand what he'll do to mess up the US.

He is also the one who made sure every god damn capitalist-f**khead in his administration made som HUGE bucks on September 11th and the war in Iraq.
And how can you say "He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11..."? Open your eyes! The only link between Iraq and Al-Qaida is that they both have a Q in their name. And I don't understand...why attack a small, innocent middle-eastern country, that has NO weapons of mass destruction? Remember, USA has more biological, nuclear, and chemical weapons than the rest of the world together. I would like to see USA deestroy their weapons instead of bullying small countries, just because they have a different color of skin and has another name for God. But what can you expect? A capitalistic retarded redneck with to much power in his hands...It just has to go wrong.

And don't come telling me "Saddam tortured his people" and bla bla bla, because you don't know what the CIA is doing. Neither do I. That's scary.
What's even scarier is that stupid "Right to carry arms"-thingy. No wonder there are over 11.000 murders by gunshot in the USA each year, while there's not even 11.000 murders in Europe each year. And when you have a president , that by the way could easily have been replaced by an orangutang, that has to coup the election, and lie to his fellow citizens, and go to war with a small, innocent country to fill up his wallet...it says alot about this "president". He's just a loony with to much power, a big ego, small brains, and a a big mouth.

Now, for this years election, I don't really like John Kerry, or Bush, since they both support Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But really, since I am a democratic socialist, and dislike capitalism, I support Kerry. Too bad I'm not an American citizen, and can't vote. But really, rather Kerry than Bush. As a matter of fact, I think Kerry has a brain.

As for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, check this out: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~ghouli/cnn.jpg

Thanks...

What country do you live in?

In my opinion, Bush isn't the worse president: he's a man of conviction, and though I don't believe in some of his policies, he is able to make decisions and he is a leader- The Zoogie People

Listen man, do you realize that before the 1900's and Teddy Roosevelt that the President of the United States of America was actually a FIGUREHEAD! Until the revolutionary acts of Teddy Roosevelt the president was little more than a puppet. Congress and the Senate controlled the country. The bigwigs up in the Democratic and Republican Parties that actually head the parties are the real dangers. Cheyney, Rumsfeld, the big guys up at Republican HQ, they are the ones running the show. Honestly, I think that the fact that we have Cheyney and Rumsfeld in some of the most powerful positions in our whole country really scares me. Personally, I think that Bush is nothing more than a puppet. A scapegoast that could easialy take the blame, yet gain little or no credit if it worked. Bush's problem is he is saying that this war is a coalition yet the only country that I can see that is sending any real force is (of course) the US! Oh sure the Brits are going along with it but that's just because Tony Blair is a pussy and won't stand up to the Republicans. It is time for our country to stop looking on the outside and looking on the inside. I can't go two blocks without seeing some pitiful homeless man sitting out on the street begging for money for GOD SAKES! if our country is so FUCKED up that we have to spend nearly 500 BILLION dollars a MONTH on military spending while letting our economy, healthcare and other services go to CRAP just shows how corrupt our Nation's political system really is. The Democrats are no better. Our country is always going to be a two party country. Ralph Nader may have good ideas, but even if he does, will it really make a difference? Will just most people either vote Republican or Democrat? Will we ever really get out of the political corruption that our "forefathers" set down in the constitution? I leave you to decide.

- Drew Fraychineaud

Whomever thinks that george bush is one of the best presidents, either does not know much about history, or is just to damn lazy to read up on the present.....which is understood if you are a ignorant, lazy selfish amaerican. Its no stereotype if it is shown every day....good job usa for showing your ass....every empire will fall.....todays empire is tomorrows ashes.
knowledge is power, arm yourself


I don't think Bush is one of the best presidents, but he isn't bad. This is an open forum for debate, not one for mud-slinging and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you.

which is understood if you are a ignorant, lazy selfish amaerican.


And the Europeans say Americans are ignorant, selfish, self-centered, narrow-minded, stereotypical bastards. I'm struck by the sheer irony.

For the record, President Bush is the first to call for a Palestinian state.

Marzein, I think the US should do what it believes to be right, because last I checked, the US Congress was the primary legislative body and not the citizens of Europe and the Middle East.

And we sure as heck aren't reinstating the draft because Europe has it.

@above post: Then vote Kerry. If you want the Federal government to take from the affluent and give to the poor who aren't doing anything to earn it, then vote Kerry. I don't like the two-party system either...

I disagree, FSB. I think Bush is one of our WORST Presidents.

I disagree, FSB. I think Bush is one of our WORST Presidents.

Then YOU, my non-friend, are one stupid idiot.

This's what I would do to you if I wasn't non-violent: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Try to keep your antisocial opinions to yourself, huh, jerko?

I'm curious where you are getting these figures, as according to every economic report, they're grossly inaccurate. As of March, the US's unemployment rate was at 12.6%, the highest it has been since the Great Depression. Inflation was on the rise. Bush had lost 2.2 million jobs since taking office. Job growth was a meager 1000 new jobs a month.

So, 2.2 million lost their jobs, 1000 new jobs a month, how many months before those 2.2 million regain employment?

Nuff said.

If I'm not mistaken, he's probably got the numbers from the source itself. You know, that guy who had to cheat his way through the election, and lie to the American citizens, so he could kill someone who had a different skincolor than himself...

FSB, do you realize you make _yourself_ look like the idiot?

You bash others, but give no evidence to your own (unconvincing) arguments.

Then YOU, my non-friend, are one stupid idiot.

This's what I would do to you if I wasn't non-violent: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Try to keep your antisocial opinions to yourself, huh, jerko?

Acctually, I think you, and this great "president" of yours, should do some research before speaking in public.

FSB, do you realize you make _yourself_ look like the idiot?

You bash others, but give no evidence to your own (unconvincing) arguments.

Dude, keep your antisocial comments to yourself, huh? I don't mean to be mean, but ain't you acting kinda like a jerko?

Acctually, I think you, and this great "president" of yours, should do some research before speaking in public.

Ohhh, yes. Well said, well said.

What country do you live in?

Norway. Why do you ask?

Acctually, I think you, and this great "president" of yours, should do some research before speaking in public.

Dude, I read like 3 or 4 books on Bush! He, like, ROCKS! Seriously, bro! :p

Norway. Why do you ask?

See, now you're actin' like a jerko, too, bein' rude to Roach-Buster! But HE'S a jerko, too, so it ain't really no big deal.

Dude, keep your antisocial comments to yourself, huh? I don't mean to be mean, but ain't you acting kinda like a jerko?

Ain't I? I'm not quite sure, actually. I never considered myself a 'jerko' before, or antisocial...

I just want you to back up your points so the argument could be valid. *shrug* If that makes me antisocial...

Why you all gotta gimme sh*t? Can't we all get along like civilized people? Bro, you shouldn't ought to accuse of makin' crap up. Go to, like, CNN yourself, and you'll see! Seriously.

Why haven't you replied to my post, FSB?

See, now you're actin' like a jerko, too, bein' rude to Roach-Buster! But HE'S a jerko, too, so it ain't really no big deal.

Okay, so...I don't really understand...When was I rude? I was just wondering why he was asking. "Why do you ask?" is in deed a common question, and NOT rude. So just OMGPLZFFSSTFU.

[QUOTE=Fat Smelly Bastards]He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Surely that's giving rather a lot more leeway than he deserves? The report just-released puts a significant proportion of the blame on Bush for the first 9/11, and Bush was under compulsion to put the measures, which now hinder such terrorist acts, into place.

"Virtue does nothing under compulsion"
Lucius Annaeus Tosser

Then YOU, my non-friend, are one stupid idiot.
Try to keep your antisocial opinions to yourself, huh, jerko?

Why wouldn't he be one of the worst presidents? Why did we enter the Iraqi war? Was it to protect the countries of the world from Terrorism? Last i checked, Iraq actually hadn't made any terrorist attacks or was connected with any in the whole of the Saddam Regime (Sure he murdered his own people and i think we were right to dethrone him, but did Bush say that that was one of the reasons?) In the end, we attacked Iraq for only two REAL reasons:
1: For Iraq's EXTENSIVE oil reserves (ever wonder where it's all going??)
2: The Saudi's saw some competition in the oil business. (hint hint)

Our economy's crap, our army is almost larger than the one we amassed in WWII, we are literally speaking, the Police of the World and we are hated by nearly every country known to man.

Okay, so...I don't really understand...When was I rude? I was just wondering why he was asking. "Why do you ask?" is in deed a common question, and NOT rude. So just OMGPLZFFSSTFU.

Dude, I don't speak Italian. What does OMPLZwhatever mean, anyway?

Why wouldn't he be one of the worst presidents? Why did we enter the Iraqi war? Was it to protect the countries of the world from Terrorism? Last i checked, Iraq actually hadn't made any terrorist attacks or was connected with any in the whole of the Saddam Regime (Sure he murdered his own people and i think we were right to dethrone him, but did Bush say that that was one of the reasons?) In the end, we attacked Iraq for only two REAL reasons:
1: For Iraq's EXTENSIVE oil reserves (ever wonder where it's all going??)
2: The Saudi's saw some competition in the oil business. (hint hint)

Our economy's crap, our army is almost larger than the one we amassed in WWII, we are literally speaking, the Police of the World and we are hated by nearly every country known to man.

Dude, Saddam attacked the Empire State Towers on 9/11. Our President even said so. Why would he lie? And our economy ain't crap, it was under Clinton, but it sure ain't now!

Why haven't you replied to my post, FSB?

What post, bro? Tell me whatcha said and I'll reply...seriously.

[QUOTE=Fat Smelly Bastards]Dude, I read like 3 or 4 books on Bush! He, like, ROCKS! Seriously, bro!

First of all, lose the bro/jerko/antisocial crap. Thats just plain bullshit. If your gonna tell people to talk like civillized adults, then stop calling names and stop trying to accuse everyone of everything. Second of all, tell me... were those books by any chance made by REPUBLICANS??

Dude, Saddam attacked the Empire State Towers on 9/11. Our President even said so. Why would he lie? And our economy ain't crap, it was under Clinton, but it sure ain't now!
Oh. My. God.

Joke account! Nobody could possibly be this stupid.

Dude, Saddam attacked the Empire State Towers on 9/11. Our President even said so. Why would he lie? And our economy ain't crap, it was under Clinton, but it sure ain't now!

See! This is why I ask for backing to your arguments.

Because many are trying to prove that exact argument and despite all the searches, haven't.

Any insight? I'm all ears.

[QUOTE=Fat Smelly Bastards]Dude, I read like 3 or 4 books on Bush! He, like, ROCKS! Seriously, bro!

First of all, lose the bro/jerko/antisocial crap. Thats just plain bullshit. If your gonna tell people to talk like civillized adults, then stop calling names and stop trying to accuse everyone of everything. Second of all, tell me... were those books by any chance made by REPUBLICANS??

Yeah, they were...so what?

Oh. My. God.

Joke account! Nobody could possibly be this stupid.

Dude, why you gotta call a brother stupid? I meant Twin Towers, not whatever towers. Why you gotta give a brother sh*t, bro? Lucky I ain't no nonviolent antisocial type, seriously.

Yeah, they were...so what?

Bias. *nods* Loads of bias.

Ok - Clinton worked tirelessly on the Israel/Palestine reformation, creating better relations, and less mass genocide between neighbors.


I love this quote!!! You have got to be kidding me right. The only thing that Clinton is known for is Monica and that HE AND THE UN allowed the mass genocide of 800,000 people in Rwanda in months not years. Also not to mention genocide in other countries. Clinton denied that there was genocide in Rwanda and recently (i think it was last year) went to Rwanda to appologize which i felt embarassed because his apology was empty and had no meaning to it. So much for democrats on the side of blacks. At least President George Bush has done things to make this country more secure. And does not bow to the Europeans which call us arrogant but that sounds a little hipocritical seeing as how the French are by far the worst in the world. What did Clinton do after the Cobar Towers or the American Embasies that were bombed in Africa and what about the USS Cole? They all had direct links to Bin Laden and he did nothing except fly a couple of missiles that 50%of them missed their targets. The democrats are in my opinion terrified of the Republicans for many reasons. The democratic party is in shambles half support half object to what is currently going on and then you have Kerry that doesnt know where he stands.

Dude, I don't speak Italian. What does OMPLZwhatever mean, anyway?

Ok, seriously, are you a 14-year old little script-kiddie with an attitude against Islam? OMG = Oh My God. PLZ = Please. FFS = For F**ks Sake. STFU = Shut The F**k Up.

Dude, Saddam attacked the Empire State Towers on 9/11. Our President even said so. Why would he lie? And our economy ain't crap, it was under Clinton, but it sure ain't now!

First of all again, its the Twin Towers, second of all, if you look closely at reports, Saddam had no PROVEN connections to the 9/11 terrorists. He didn't even harbor them as they made their way to the US for GOD SAKES! Third of all, while i didn't like Clintons administration, and his economical skill were minimal, he did actually have a good economy for the first six years of his administration. the last two were downhill economically. (in fact the first six years was only because he was in control during the computer boom.) Finally, do you REALLY believe all that the president tells you? Ever heard of the State of the Union adress? if you notice, no matter how bad the country is, the President always says how good he is, and how good the country is. Its like the Tooth fairy your parents always told you. Did you believe THAT??

Ok, seriously, are you a 14-year old little script-kiddie with an attitude against Islam? OMG = Oh My God. PLZ = Please. FFS = For F**ks Sake. STFU = Shut The F**k Up.

No. I ain't. I'm 42. So, you better recognize, fool, and be glad I ain't no antisocial jerko like you, you bum.

Bias. *nods* Loads of bias.

In deed.
(Btw, I like the democratic spirit in this thread <3)

No. I ain't. I'm 42. So, you better recognize, fool, and be glad I ain't no antisocial jerko like you, you bum.

You are 42, and calling people 'jerkos' and 'bro'?

Where are you from???

First of all again, its the Twin Towers, second of all, if you look closely at reports, Saddam had no PROVEN connections to the 9/11 terrorists. He didn't even harbor them as they made their way to the US for GOD SAKES! Third of all, while i didn't like Clintons administration, and his economical skill were minimal, he did actually have a good economy for the first six years of his administration. the last two were downhill economically. (in fact the first six years was only because he was in control during the computer boom.) Finally, do you REALLY believe all that the president tells you? Ever heard of the State of the Union adress? if you notice, no matter how bad the country is, the President always says how good he is, and how good the country is. Its like the Tooth fairy your parents always told you. Did you believe THAT??

All right, I'm sick of you jerkos talkin' mess about me. I ain't never postin' nothin' EVER AGAIN, on account of the likes of you no-account no-gooders. GOOD. BYE. :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Yeah, they were...so what?

Ever heard of one sided?? it means that you are completely on ONE SIDE so you dont really see someone's faults, just his advantages smart guy!

You are 42, and calling people 'jerkos' and 'bro'?

Where are you from???

Haha, good one, mate! xD

Why you all gotta gimme sh*t? Can't we all get along like civilized people? Bro, you shouldn't ought to accuse of makin' crap up. Go to, like, CNN yourself, and you'll see! Seriously.


Listen, if you want to get along, don't call people anti-social, idiots, and jerkos. I'm not the most sociable person around, so I can't offer the best advice...but seriously...

-

OMGPLZFFSSTFU.

Oh my god pleeeeease (FFS? eh?) shut the f*** up is what it translates to.


Our economy's crap, our army is almost larger than the one we amassed in WWII, we are literally speaking, the Police of the World and we are hated by nearly every country known to man.


Quite the contrary, we have the best economy in the world, second to none, and it's getting better. Of course our military would be larger, our population has skyrocketed. As for being hated...well, that's unfortunate. It's a shame...but Kerry and socialism is not the answer.


Dude, Saddam attacked the Empire State Towers on 9/11. Our President even said so. Why would he lie? And our economy ain't crap, it was under Clinton, but it sure ain't now!


If I were the Republican party head, I would do the political party equivalent of excommunicate you.

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_comment/comment-bowyer021303.asp


On average, Bill Clinton’s deficits were larger than George W. Bush’s. On average, the Clinton deficits over the first three years of that administration were much larger than Bush’s. The 2004 deficit, adjusted for inflation, is ranked 12th since 1940. The 2004 deficit, as a percent of GDP, is ranked 21st since 1940. The top five deficits run in this country happened while Democrats were in the White House.


Here are other links you should read, and make some sort of opinion on. The more you read, the more informed you become...whether or not you agree with it.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6705

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110005249

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004936

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

http://www.indict.org.uk/



Ok, seriously, are you a 14-year old little script-kiddie with an attitude against Islam? OMG = Oh My God. PLZ = Please. FFS = For F**ks Sake. STFU = Shut The F**k Up.


No need to get confrontational...but...age isn't a judging factor...maturity is...I hope you don't think I'm a ... 'little script-kiddie.' ;) (I'm under fourteen)

All right, I'm sick of you jerkos talkin' mess about me. I ain't never postin' nothin' EVER AGAIN, on account of the likes of you no-account no-gooders. GOOD. BYE. :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Thank you SO MUCH! :D

You are 42, and calling people 'jerkos' and 'bro'?

Where are you from???

I'm from LA, bro, and I'm a biker. Not that it matters, 'cause I ain't never postin' nothing to you jerko-buttheads never again! :mad:

In my opinion, Bush isn't the worse president: he's a man of conviction, and though I don't believe in some of his policies, he is able to make decisions and he is a leader.

I partially agree.... Bush has shown an uncanny ability to make (bad) decisions and lead the US (in the wrong direction).

FSB, I think you are very similar to Bush.

Take it as you may.

I'm from LA, bro, and I'm a biker. Not that it matters, 'cause I ain't never postin' nothing to you jerko-buttheads never again! :mad:

Ya know what you remind me of?? a pouting child who doesn't get his way :D

All right, I'm sick of you jerkos talkin' mess about me. I ain't never postin' nothin' EVER AGAIN, on account of the likes of you no-account no-gooders. GOOD. BYE. :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Wonderful idea.

It's times like these when I glance at my sig and smile.

Norway. Why do you ask?

I'm just curious.

Bush doesn't have supreme executive power. No, he is not an all-powerfu dictator with authoritarian control...he is influenced by members of his cabinet, other departments of the government, and everything he proposes has to be passed by a 535-member parliamentary body known as Congress.

Of course, it's easier to blame one guy than the entire government, so he takes the fall for everything.


FSB, I think you are very similar to Bush.

Take it as you may.


If Bush were the same as FSB...well...the US of A would not exist.


All right, I'm sick of you jerkos talkin' mess about me. I ain't never postin' nothin' EVER AGAIN, on account of the likes of you no-account no-gooders. GOOD. BYE.


I don't think they would have had they not been provoked...again, don't flame people because they don't agree with you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the worst thing that can happen is an atmosphere of intimidation in which differing views are discouraged.

Dude, Saddam attacked the Empire State Towers on 9/11. Our President even said so. Why would he lie? And our economy ain't crap, it was under Clinton, but it sure ain't now!


I would like to say first of all that I am a Republican and i support Bush. Now with what you just wrote even i dont beleive. Bush NEVER said that Saddam attacked the WORLD TRADE CENTER (TWIN TOWERS not the empire state building). Seriously people dont you know what happened? This was a national tragedy and I would hope at the least you would know what was attacked. WTC & the Pentagon with a total dead of over 3000 innocent people not to mention the thousands that were wounded. The worst attack on American soil.

Bush doesn't have supreme executive power. No, he is not an all-powerfu dictator with authoritarian control...he is influenced by members of his cabinet, other departments of the government, and everything he proposes has to be passed by a 535-member parliamentary body known as Congress.

Of course, it's easier to blame one guy than the entire government, so he takes the fall for everything.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Thats why they put HIM as the candidate for president. He would do what the bigwigs at the Republican HQ says, and in exchange, if anything bad happens, he takes the fall! :headbang: jeez its like im talking to fellow adults or something!!! :)

I'm just curious.

Okey dokey. :)

I'm sorry, but I'll need more proof than duh with an excessive amount of u's - even if it's in all caps ;) - for you to convince me that Bush is a puppet of the Republican party without any sense of autonomous...uh...autonomity...uh...autonomous-ness. Right.

You aren't, you're talking to a high school student :P

WTC & the Pentagon with a total dead of over 3000 innocent people not to mention the thousands that were wounded. The worst attack on American soil.

let me correct you: the worst non-specific country CIVILLIAN attack on American soil. (Pearl Harbor)

Dude, just go to CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC...I don't remember exactly what page of those websites, but they are THERE. Check 'em out and you'll see I'm right!

I read on the net that the net doesn't exist. Dunno where, but it's out there somewhere. I am sure it is. And since i found it on the net, it must be true!!!!!111oneeleven

...

Um, how come no one is realizing that FSB is being intentionally obtuse in order to show the weakness of the Bushies side? He's keeping it up, probably, because he can't believe everyone is taking him so seriously.

I feel bad for my supposedly more learned and liberal bretheren for taking his posts literally. Aren't we the ones who are supposed to have a better appreciation of irony?
I guess it's a sign of these polarized and knee-jerk reaction times that no one can see the obvious.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be insulting, but there's something dangerous in the fact that we've become so good at making ourselves believe in the stupidity of those who don't agree with us that we actually think someone is seriously calling them the "empire twin towers."

Sigh. More humor and more rational thought are needed in these dark times.

P.S. Bush sucks

I'm sorry, but I'll need more proof than duh with an excessive amount of u's - even if it's in all caps ;) - for you to convince me that Bush is a puppet of the Republican party without any sense of autonomous...uh...autonomity...uh...autonomous-ness. Right.

You aren't, you're talking to a high school student :P

Good for you, at least you are going to school! (half these guys at my work look like they didn't go to school or at least didn't retain anything while there :) )

Of course he's a puppet (hint: look at his ears!)

Dude, I don't mean to sound like a jerko, but you shouldn't ought to make stuff up about people, you know? It ain't nice!

But you should?

THE MAN IS BEING SARCASTIC! Right????

Um, how come no one is realizing that FSB is being intentionally obtuse in order to show the weakness of the Bushies side? He's keeping it up, probably, because he can't believe everyone is taking him so seriously.

I feel bad for my supposedly more learned and liberal bretheren for taking his posts literally. Aren't we the ones who are supposed to have a better appreciation of irony?
I guess it's a sign of these polarized and knee-jerk reaction times that no one can see the obvious.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be insulting, but there's something dangerous in the fact that we've become so good at making ourselves believe in the stupidity of those who don't agree with us that we actually think someone is seriously calling them the "empire twin towers."

Sigh. More humor and more rational thought are needed in these dark times.

P.S. Bush sucks
The voice of reason!

Ok, so...really...Al Qaida had been waiting to make a strike on the US for a loooong time. They just needed a weak, corrupted link. (Also known as George W. Bush) And in Norwegian politics, the weak links usually resign or get the boot up their ass...For those of you who didn't understand: GET WRID OF BUSH! He lies to the American citizens, and every move he makes, gives him more money in his wallet. I suggest that you people read "Stupid White Men...and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation" by Michael Moore.
It's a good book, and all of you who swallows everything Uncle George gives you, shuld read this book.

In other words, if FSB is as stupid as he is pretending to be, then I doubt he'd be able to work a computer, or indeed, refrain from chewing on the mouse.

Dude, you don't have to agree with me, but you shouldn't oughtta make up quotes like that, 'cause Bush ain't never said none of those things. His IQ, is like, 167, ain't it? Seriously!

more like 67 if you ask me. If you ask me, he doesn't only look like a chimp.

more like 67 if you ask me. If you ask me, he doesn't only look like a chimp.

67? Yeah, maybe if you octupled it, lol!

more like 67 if you ask me. If you ask me, he doesn't only look like a chimp.

Yeah, I'm just waiting for a wanted-poster to pop up, saying: "WANTED! Barbara and George Bush. Wanted for kidnapping Julius, the chimp." :p

And, I've got an IQ of 128. My guess is...Uncle George's IQ is 95.

No. I ain't. I'm 42. So, you better recognize, fool, and be glad I ain't no antisocial jerko like you, you bum.
He said all of that, uses lingo how he does, claims to be from LA, a biker, and says that he's 42, how can he NOT be fooling you all?

In other words, if FSB is as stupid as he is pretending to be, then I doubt he'd be able to work a computer, or indeed, refrain from chewing on the mouse.

Who knows? I've seen people WAAAAAAAAAY stupider than that!

If I'm not mistaken, he's probably got the numbers from the source itself. You know, that guy who had to cheat his way through the election, and lie to the American citizens, so he could kill someone who had a different skincolor than himself...

this is crap lol. how did he cheat or lie? now give facts not crap please.

Oh, I see :) FSB is really Stephistan having a bit of fun.

this is crap lol. how did he cheat or lie? now give facts not crap please.

I don't have time to explain. All I can say is: There's a whole chapter about it in Michael Moore's book, "Stupid White Men". Go to the library, pick up the book, and read it.

And as my last post on this thread:

It seems like if I, a Norwegian 17 year old socialist, knows more about US Politics than many of the citizens of the USA does. THAT'S SCARY.

Why you all gotta gimme sh*t? Can't we all get along like civilized people? Bro, you shouldn't ought to accuse of makin' crap up. Go to, like, CNN yourself, and you'll see! Seriously.

I't pretty obvious you're making up stuff when you refuse to show something to back it up with. Then, by your means, everyone could say anything and it would be true.

Lol, FSB is freaking funny.

Agreed. The entertainment value of this thread is priceless.

No. I ain't. I'm 42. So, you better recognize, fool, and be glad I ain't no antisocial jerko like you, you bum.

One sec you say that there should no namecalling. Now look at you. supposed to be 42, huh?

You are hillarious

Bush is the 2nd most hated person internationally, Hitler is the first. Also he was trying to change the Constitution.

Bush lied when he said Iraq was an immediate threat. Bush lied when he said they had WMD's. Bush lied when he said the majority of his tax custs were going to the poor and middle class. Bush lied when he resisted the formation of the 9/11 commission and then said how important it was. Bush lied when he presented himself as the fiscal responsibility candidate. Bush lied when he stood in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner, and then later blamed the navy personnel on the carrier for it (even though it's been established that the Bush administration brought the banner with them. Bush lied when he said he was a uniter, not a divider. Bush lies every time he espoused the religion of christianity, and yet lives nothing like how Jesus told us to (turn the other cheek? Swords to plowshares? camel/eye of a needle-rich man/heaven? He who is without sin cast the first cruise missile?)

bush lies, and then lies again when he changes his position and pretends to have held that position all along...and then accusses his opponet of being a flip-flopper!

Let me ask you this: How can a man the Right characterizes as the most liberal senator based on voting record also be a flip-flopper? If his voting record is so one-sided, how can he possibly be a flip-flopper? Based on their own argument, Kerry has stuck to his guns more than any other senator. The Antithesis of being a flip-flopper.

Bush is the worst president in recent history, and apathetic, misinformed, overly rigid, short-attention-span, fast-food Americans are to blame.

Sigh, some may take this for proof that I hate America. Not true. I love America. I love the ideals it espouses on paper. I love that we lead the way and innovated in the formation of on enlightened democratic republics. I just think we've been sitting on our ass way too long, and been too smugly self-satisfied with our power. Without vigilance, we will decay into corruption just like every other Empire. We need to be contantly thinking of ways to do things better, and unfortunatley, conservatisim, at it's core, resists progress. That's the very definition of conservatism!

67? Yeah, maybe if you octupled it, lol!

octu-what?

I just wanted to say...EAT LEAD, YOU JERKO BUTTHOLE SCUM!!!!
:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

Bush probably has an IQ between 100 and 120.

The internet says I have an IQ of 142

Bush lied when he said Iraq was an immediate threat. Bush lied when he said they had WMD's. Bush lied when he said the majority of his tax custs were going to the poor and middle class. Bush lied when he resisted the formation of the 9/11 commission and then said how important it was. Bush lied when he presented himself as the fiscal responsibility candidate. Bush lied when he stood in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner, and then later blamed the navy personnel on the carrier for it (even though it's been established that the Bush administration brought the banner with them. Bush lied when he said he was a uniter, not a divider. Bush lies every time he espoused the religion of christianity, and yet lives nothing like how Jesus told us to (turn the other cheek? Swords to plowshares? camel/eye of a needle-rich man/heaven? He who is without sin cast the first cruise missile?)

bush lies, and then lies again when he changes his position and pretends to have held that position all along...and then accusses his opponet of being a flip-flopper!

Let me ask you this: How can a man the Right characterizes as the most liberal senator based on voting record also be a flip-flopper? If his voting record is so one-sided, how can he possibly be a flip-flopper? Based on their own argument, Kerry has stuck to his guns more than any other senator. The Antithesis of being a flip-flopper.

Bush is the worst president in recent history, and apathetic, misinformed, overly rigid, short-attention-span, fast-food Americans are to blame.

Sigh, some may take this for proof that I hate America. Not true. I love America. I love the ideals it espouses on paper. I love that we lead the way and innovated in the formation of on enlightened democratic republics. I just think we've been sitting on our ass way too long, and been too smugly self-satisfied with our power. Without vigilance, we will decay into corruption just like every other Empire. We need to be contantly thinking of ways to do things better, and unfortunatley, conservatisim, at it's core, resists progress. That's the very definition of conservatism!


Amen to that! (And yeah, I said I had my last post earlier, but I just HAD TO. :p)

I just wanted to say...EAT LEAD, YOU JERKO BUTTHOLE SCUM!!!!
:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

Typical republican attitude...

Why wouldn't he be one of the worst presidents? Why did we enter the Iraqi war? Was it to protect the countries of the world from Terrorism? Last i checked, Iraq actually hadn't made any terrorist attacks or was connected with any in the whole of the Saddam Regime (Sure he murdered his own people and i think we were right to dethrone him, but did Bush say that that was one of the reasons?) In the end, we attacked Iraq for only two REAL reasons:
1: For Iraq's EXTENSIVE oil reserves (ever wonder where it's all going??)
2: The Saudi's saw some competition in the oil business. (hint hint)

Our economy's crap, our army is almost larger than the one we amassed in WWII, we are literally speaking, the Police of the World and we are hated by nearly every country known to man.


dam how little you know of the U.S economy. the U.S. economy is so large that changes made by a president takes YEARS to have efect. we are NOW just starting to feel the efects of what bush has done. up till now we have felt the effects of clinton and the world trade disaster. did any of you have any real economics classes?

the U.S. military is bigger now than in WWII lol do you have any idea how funny that is. http://www.truthandpolitics.org/military-relative-size.php

between full size carries light and escort the U.S had close to 100 at the end of WWII

Typical republican attitude...

Though generally republicans have tact. *nods* And at least *pretend* to back up what they're saying.

The internet says I have an IQ of 142

I see your point

Typical republican attitude...

No that's typical stupid Republican attitude. Real Republican attitude is certainly not that stupid. Unfortunately it is dummies like that that set the standard, unfortunately. And yes Bush is an idiot and a lot of people have a higher IQ than him. BTW that internet test isn't a real test. The real test is like 6 hours long, I remember taking it when I was younger, like 6 or 7. Don't remember the score but I know it was pretty high for that age. IQ does decrease with age though, unfortunately, but I damn well know I am a lot smarter than that number correlates. They also say that the smarter you are the more psycopathic and such. Hmm, I see a correlation...

:: slowly twists off head of evil-doer ::

LOL!

Though generally republicans have tact. *nods* And at least *pretend* to back up what they're saying.

I couldn't agree more. :p



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymoor
The internet says I have an IQ of 142


I see your point

Haha, I was about to say the same thing. :p

Even the "real" IQ test isn't a real test because it always has certain (almost certainly unintentional) social/ethnic biases built into it. It also has difficulty judging things like imagination and others of the less concrete parts of intelligence. It can be a handy guideline though.

I suggest everyone, every once in a while, make a serious attempt to question your hard-held beliefs. If you hate Bush, try to find some good, rerasonable facts to refute that position. Likewise if you love Bush, make the attempt to be unbiased and make an honest attempt to revise your preconceptions.
I'm not saying it'll change your mind either way, but it's eminently healthy for one to build flexibility into one's brain. Just like an athlete who doesn't warm up and stretch before working out, a lack of mental flexibility probably results in injury.

Sheesh, I'm all preachy today. My apologies. I probably need to have a beer.

octu-what?

Octupled. Multiplied by 8.

FYI: The article that published the IQ's of Bush and former presidents was completely false. It started as a joke, and was picked up by many "un-biased" media sources like the New York Times and the Washington Post. The Lovingston Institute, which the article claims ran the tests, is not a real institute anywhere in the world....check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.

I think Regan was the best president in recent history, but Bush is very good as well. He has the courage to lead with his own judgement, and the judgement of his closest advisors (I don't care if you think Bush is stupid, his cabinet is filled with extremely bright people), rather than lead with his finger in the wind like Clinton did.

Vote Kerry, and make America safer for terrorists.

If you don't like someone, just do this:

:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


Just kidding.

A parting thought- :gundge:

I don't have time to explain. All I can say is: There's a whole chapter about it in Michael Moore's book, "Stupid White Men". Go to the library, pick up the book, and read it.


dam you take moore as fact instead od satire that it is lol. what is your iq 50? or is it you are so despret to belive that you make stuff up?

1.Lincoln
2.Reagan
3.every one else

That aside, I'd say Kerry might make one of the worst presidents with his economic policies alone. He would limit outsourcing, disabling corporations from creating low-priced goods that would help the consumers who drive the economy...(that's us)...He would be harsh on big business, and punish the rich disporportionately in comparison to others...for the simple fact that they're rich, never mind how hard they worked to get there. He would raise taxes to hurt small business so as to create social welfare and medicare when corporations would probably do a better job...his anti-business, socialist economic policies would hurt corporations and consumers, the driving forces behind a strong economy. So consider that or correct me if I'm wrong.

And I see someone that has not actually read Kerry's positions, nor economic reports. You seem to have this mistaken concept as to what outsourcing actually is. Outsourcing is not the manufacturing of goods in other countries. Those are called imports. Outsourcing is the elimination of US based support offices, which don't affect product manufacture. The issue is not in the nature of outsourcing, but that the nature of outsourcing is not to cut costs for the cutting of the MSRP, but for the adding of dividends and/or stock value. The long-term affects of outsourcing is actually an implosion of the economy, as less and less consumers are capable of buying these products, and companies cannot cut the costs of these products or else loose their stock value. When the pressure to cut costs finally breaks, the stock market collapses, and the end result is total economic implosion. Might I point you to the stock market collapse of 1929. That was caused by the overinflation of profits due to a myriad of factors, not the least of which was the use of shell companies to hide losses. Why now, doesn't that sound familiar?

Kerry's plan is not to eliminate outsourcing, it is to eliminate the use of outsourcing to boost stock prices. If your company does outsource in such a way that would improve MSRP, your company actually takes less of a hit.

As for small businessess, Kerry's programme would dramatically improve their tax situation. As is, the average small business now pays more today than it did only 4 years ago. This is due to the Bush Tax-cut Shell Game, which removed income tax burdons on businessess, but increased other taxes that primarily effect businessess that employ under 100 staff.

So please, quit this "Kerry will hurt the economy" bs, you're being sold a lie and swallowing it up to the reel.

michael moore :gundge: everything coming out of his fat mouth is a lie

Hahaha, quoting "Stupid White Men." I've read it, and I gotta say that there is not an ounce of fact in that book, just a series of borderline comical assertions. Just check his works cited section....find anything? Moore is a joke, as his work. There's a documentary coming out called "Michael Moore Hates America," but the filmmaker refuses to release it until he gets an interview with Moore to put in the movie. Moore refuses to appear for an interview, maybe because he cannot defend his positions..... He says the reason is he only appears in his own projects, but he's interviewed in a number of other liberal documentaries, including one called "The Corporation." Looks like Moore lied again....

And I see someone that has not actually read Kerry's positions, nor economic reports.

I'll read Kerry's positions as soon as he decides what they are....

michael moore avoids anything that he thinks will catch him lying and when any one does catch him he just goes into how bad republicans are.

I'll read Kerry's positions as soon as he decides what they are....
lol so true

Bush lied when he said Iraq was an immediate threat. Bush lied when he said they had WMD's. Bush lied when he said the majority of his tax custs were going to the poor and middle class. Bush lied when he resisted the formation of the 9/11 commission and then said how important it was. Bush lied when he presented himself as the fiscal responsibility candidate. Bush lied when he stood in front of the "Mission Accomplished" banner, and then later blamed the navy personnel on the carrier for it (even though it's been established that the Bush administration brought the banner with them. Bush lied when he said he was a uniter, not a divider. Bush lies every time he espoused the religion of christianity, and yet lives nothing like how Jesus told us to (turn the other cheek? Swords to plowshares? camel/eye of a needle-rich man/heaven? He who is without sin cast the first cruise missile?)

bush lies, and then lies again when he changes his position and pretends to have held that position all along...and then accusses his opponet of being a flip-flopper!

Let me ask you this: How can a man the Right characterizes as the most liberal senator based on voting record also be a flip-flopper? If his voting record is so one-sided, how can he possibly be a flip-flopper? Based on their own argument, Kerry has stuck to his guns more than any other senator. The Antithesis of being a flip-flopper.

Bush is the worst president in recent history, and apathetic, misinformed, overly rigid, short-attention-span, fast-food Americans are to blame.

Sigh, some may take this for proof that I hate America. Not true. I love America. I love the ideals it espouses on paper. I love that we lead the way and innovated in the formation of on enlightened democratic republics. I just think we've been sitting on our ass way too long, and been too smugly self-satisfied with our power. Without vigilance, we will decay into corruption just like every other Empire. We need to be contantly thinking of ways to do things better, and unfortunatley, conservatisim, at it's core, resists progress. That's the very definition of conservatism!

dam i must be dealing with children. Bush did not LIE he was mistaken i would hope you know the differnce. he used the same intell that cliton and kerry both use to state publicy that sadom was amassing wmd. so are you lying or where you just mistaken?

http://cshink.com/saddams_weapons.htm

NOW NO ONE ON THIS BOARD CAN SAY THAT WITH OUT LYING

Bush is one of our worst presidents. At first I could agree with him, but after he went to war with no proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and I found out he owned his own oil company, I knew where his intrests were.

Remember that Clinton recieved congressional approval to take military action in Iraq twice. An air strike against key targets was planned, but the mission had to be scratched, at great expense, because Clinton was too busy at a golf tournament to give launch authorization. But I digress.... Point is, Clinton's National Security Advisor at that point is the same man who is advising Kerry, and will almost certainly be Kerry's NSA if he takes office. On another interesting sidenote, the same former NSA is under investigation by the 9/11 commission for hiding documents that prove the Clinton Administration's accountability for 9/11. He was found stuffing some of the documents into his socks so he could smuggle them out and destroy them.....

Kd4, you took one piece of my argument, refuted it with your own (biased,) information and then concluded everything else is wrong too. Sorry, but that's just plain stupid. If you want to say Bush isn't a liar, then refute ALL my points. Don't play the misdirect and bloviate game.

Bush is one of our worst presidents. At first I could agree with him, but after he went to war with no proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and I found out he owned his own oil company, I knew where his intrests were.

Read the Kay reports, there are file cabinets of evidence that Saddam was developing WMDs. If you knew your kid was trying to get his hands on some cocaine, would you wait till he had it to punish him? Or would you wait till he used it? Or sold it? Oh, and the interem iraqi government just had us dispose of multiple tons of weapons grade uranium that was being stored in Iraq, seeing as how they hadn't the capacity to do it themselves. Didn't see that reported on your liberal media, did you?

Kd4, you took one piece of my argument, refuted it with your own (biased,) information and then concluded everything else is wrong too. Sorry, but that's just plain stupid. If you want to say Bush isn't a liar, then refute ALL my points. Don't play the misdirect and bloviate game.

Hard to argue with such baseless emotion don't you think? You can say things like bush lied about the tax cuts, but that's not true. We tax on a percentage system in the US, so the wealthy will clearly get more money back! But the low and middle classes get a higer percentage of their money back. And everyone is getting more of their money back than they would have before. To tax on percentage, then give money back on a flat rate, would be giving a hell of a lot of people free money. Don't buy that class warfare bs the liberals spew, they just want to re-distribute the wealth.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot the main point of my post. If you want an arguement, back yourself up with valid facts. Otherwise it's going to turn into a name calling, emotional fiasco where nothing is proven.

(Sigh) I wish FSB would post something again...his posts were hilarious!

Read the Kay reports, there are file cabinets of evidence that Saddam was developing WMDs. If you knew your kid was trying to get his hands on some cocaine, would you wait till he had it to punish him? Or would you wait till he used it? Or sold it? Oh, and the interem iraqi government just had us dispose of multiple tons of weapons grade uranium that was being stored in Iraq, seeing as how they hadn't the capacity to do it themselves. Didn't see that reported on your liberal media, did you?

Since when was Iraq our "kid"? Using that analogy would be like a drug lord telling his son not to get cocaine.

FSB, you by far have some of the worst grammer I have ever seen. Ignorant people like yourself are destroying society. Your vicious ideas and beleifs are "dumbing" down all of those around you. Bush is an atrocious president! I do not have to give you proof of any kind due to the overwhelming amount of cited proof throughout the forum's pages. Isa lookin 4ward to yur reponse. I thought that I should at least write something that you could understand, you know in your good ol' conservative southern tongue.



P.S. I hope unemployment is working out for you.

Oooo, easy to challenge semantics like that. It's an analogy. Kinda like, if you know a guy is trying to get a weapon to kill you, or one of your friends (ie israel), do you wait till he gets the gun or pulls the trigger?

EDIT: We have weapons because of a little concept called MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). Right now our weapons are the only protection we have from being attacked by WMDs ourself.... If Clinton hadn't cut star wars tech funding, we might already have Ballistic Missle Defense Systems, which would realistically lead to worldwide disarmament. Why have a useless weapon?

I challenge the idea that he's the best. He's good, but not the best. Not in the Top 5.

Read the Kay reports, there are file cabinets of evidence that Saddam was developing WMDs. If you knew your kid was trying to get his hands on some cocaine, would you wait till he had it to punish him? Or would you wait till he used it? Or sold it? Oh, and the interem iraqi government just had us dispose of multiple tons of weapons grade uranium that was being stored in Iraq, seeing as how they hadn't the capacity to do it themselves. Didn't see that reported on your liberal media, did you?

Well, I certainly wouldn't go out and gun down the drug dealer prior to him selling to my child. Or killing my child for that matter. You analogy is false, because we're taling about death and war which invariably involves killing a lot of innocent people. No matter what the circumstances are, one better form an iron-clad case for going to war before you go and do it. Saddam was an easy target. A great case could have been made to go to war with him, but the simple fact is the US gov't failed miserably in that regard.
They exagerrated faulty info. They tried to roadblock the commission that, if they were honestly dealing in good faith with information they thought was factual, would have taken them off the hook! How does this make sense?
They have riled international opposition to the US, hurting diplomatic and economic relations around the world. They have pulled themselves out of several international treaties. They have allowed, either through inattention or complicity, the abuse of Iraqi (and other undisclosed,) prisoners, compromising the stature of the US.

The simple fact is, whatever your politics, and whatever your opinion of the righteousness of the Iraq war, the Bush administration has done an inexcusably poor job promoting it and conducting it in an efficient and professional way. This will only serve to erode American properity and security for years to come.

At best you can make the argument that they are incompetent and easily misled. At worst, you can call them the seeds of fascism in America.

better than kerry and edwards. my slogan, "kerry and Edwards! so full of shit, it takes two Johns to hold it all. Keep it up Fat smelly Bastards

"I do not have to give you proof of any kind

....because my ideas are so far superior to yours! You probably wouldn't understand because you're stupid! I'll just resort to character attacks in typical liberal fasion!"

Sounds like a parody to me..

… liberal documentaries, including one called "The Corporation." Looks like Moore lied again....

What are you talking about?

The Corporation was extremely unbiased. It showed both sides of the arguments.

Did you even watch the documentry, or did you just seize upon it as back up for your argument?

FAIL

New Genoa wins a prize!

New Genoa wins a prize!

I… I'd like a prize

*weeps*

[QUOTE=Gymoor]Kd4, you took one piece of my argument, refuted it with your own (biased,) information and then concluded everything else is wrong too. Sorry, but that's just plain stupid. If you want to say Bush isn't a liar, then refute ALL my points. Don't play the misdirect and bloviate game.[/QUO

well at lest i use proff and not spout crap like you do. show me some proff or are you just lying.
biased? i rember seeing it on tv news clip. how can repeting what cliton and kerry have said on film be biased? or have you just forgoten because it does not fit into what you want to belive. clitons speach was seen wide spread so it should not be hard for you to find. but i do not think you will because you would have to been living in a cave not to have seen it the frist time. the fact you still made the post says a lot about your character

If the Bush Administration tried to roadblock the 9/11 commission, why is the only person still under investigation for intentionally misleading the commission Clinton's NSA? France may hate us because of us circumventing their authority and entering Iraq anyway, but the opposition of the US by a couple nations does not equate to damage to US reputation in the eyes of the world... And why do you think the Islam population of the world hates america so much? Maybe because of our decadance (ie our head of state recieving sexual favors from a younger woman who wasn't his wife, and the subsequent, sweeping media attention to the matter)....

The immature acts of a handful of american soldiers and a prison is abuse yes, but it pales in comparison to the acts commited by the bathist goverment. Those same POWs would have probably endured even worse "abuse" if they were rushing a college fraternity. But no pledge has ever been decapitated, then had his execution broadcast on television in and entire region.

Remember that the joint chiefs of staff, even in retrospect, said that given the information they had at the time they went to war, they would do it all over again....who can we blame for faulty intelligence? Maybe someone that cut intel funding?

"

....because my ideas are so far superior to yours! You probably wouldn't understand because you're stupid! I'll just resort to character attacks in typical liberal fasion!"

If you read what I wrote I said I have no need to give proof because of the great ammount of proof provided by those who agree with my ideas. Typical libral fashion to attack character, well didn't you just attack my character. By doing this you therefore are no better than a liberal. Thanks Savage Waldo I learned a lot, mostly how conservatives use dumb and stupid, instead of using civilized and articulate words. Conservatives love America like a child loves their mommy, but Liberals love America like an adult loves another person. Good ol' AL Franken.

Sigh.

Let's assume for a moment that Clinton was incredibly corrupt and incompetent. In what way does that excuse in any way Bush's corruption and incompetence?

Your argument fails to support anything. To quote parents, "if Clinton jumps off a cliff, does it make it okay for Bush?"

The immature acts of a handful of american soldiers and a prison is abuse yes, but it pales in comparison to the acts commited by the bathist goverment. Those same POWs would have probably endured even worse "abuse" if they were rushing a college fraternity. But no pledge has ever been decapitated, then had his execution broadcast on television in and entire region.


Except that America is supposed to be a great Liberator, spreading truth and justice and democracy and the American way.

When you're the 'liberators' and the 'good guys', you don't fry a man's nads, or sic dogs on him.

What are you talking about?

The Corporation was extremely unbiased. It showed both sides of the arguments.

Did you even watch the documentry, or did you just seize upon it as back up for your argument?

FAIL

Yes, I saw it, and I felt it was a little biased. Not by michael moore standards of course, but a little biased nonetheless. But the point of the post was this: Michael Moore refuses to let a documentary producer interview him, saying he doesn't do interviews, while at the same time he is interviewing for other documentaries he feels fit his ideals better! Moore get's all self-rightous about his adversaries not giving him the time of day, and now he's doing the same thing himself!

Yes, I saw it, and I felt it was a little biased. Not by michael moore standards of course, but a little biased nonetheless. But the point of the post was this: Michael Moore refuses to let a documentary producer interview him, saying he doesn't do interviews, while at the same time he is interviewing for other documentaries he feels fit his ideals better! Moore get's all self-rightous about his adversaries not giving him the time of day, and now he's doing the same thing himself!

At the end of the day, Michael Moore is a businessman and a 'personality' rather then say an actual truthspreader. I'd rather read Chomsky or Orwell than Moore.

If you're in the eye of the media, you don't want to do something that's risky publicity.

That's not hypocritical as much as it is businesssmarts.

If you read what I wrote I said I have no need to give proof because of the great ammount of proof provided by those who agree with my ideas. Typical libral fashion to attack character, well didn't you just attack my character. By doing this you therefore are no better than a liberal. Thanks Savage Waldo I learned a lot, mostly how conservatives use dumb and stupid, instead of using civilized and articulate words. Conservatives love America like a child loves their mommy, but Liberals love America like an adult loves another person. Good ol' AL Franken.

I was attempting to challenge you into defending your own points, rather than adopting the high and mighty attitude you've just used again. And I see more character attacks. (by the way, pointing out character attacks does not qualify as commiting character attacks. Let's try arugeing with facts, not emotions, shall we?)

Cassada wins a prize!

Except that America is supposed to be a great Liberator, spreading truth and justice and democracy and the American way.

When you're the 'liberators' and the 'good guys', you don't fry a man's nads, or sic dogs on him.
get a large group together and you will have a few bad apples. does that make all in the group bad?

Except that America is supposed to be a great Liberator, spreading truth and justice and democracy and the American way.

When you're the 'liberators' and the 'good guys', you don't fry a man's nads, or sic dogs on him.

America also places faith in it's citizens to make their own decisions, and pay the consequences for said actions. The soldiers made a bad choice, and they're being punished for it. Still doesn't compare with the atrocities commited by the former Iraqi government.

Cassada wins a prize!

Haha! Go me!

get a large group together and you will have a few bad apples. does that make all in the group bad?

A good defence, but not good enough. George W. Bush never gave an apology. Cases of abuse are still springing up. Many feel that the crackdowns on the offending soldiers are not hard enough.

Something like this happened in Canada a few years back. A peace keeping mission went horribly wrong. There was torture and ect

All soldiers in the unit were kicked out of the army and the entire unit was disbanded.

--

Waldo -

The army life is far different than civilian life. A normal civilian is not expected to act under Geneva and fight insurgents, for example. You can't say that America gave them that choice because if the soldiers in the army have the choice to rape kill and pillage then that is NOT a good thing

Sigh.

Let's assume for a moment that Clinton was incredibly corrupt and incompetent. In what way does that excuse in any way Bush's corruption and incompetence?

Your argument fails to support anything. To quote parents, "if Clinton jumps off a cliff, does it make it okay for Bush?"

It does not excuse corruption or incompetence, though you are automatically assuming corruption and incompetence on Bush's part. It would, however, explain the misinformation that Bush used in an earnest attempt to make the world safer for America.

Sigh.

Let's assume for a moment that Clinton was incredibly corrupt and incompetent. In what way does that excuse in any way Bush's corruption and incompetence?

Your argument fails to support anything. To quote parents, "if Clinton jumps off a cliff, does it make it okay for Bush?"
how does using the best intell at the time= incmpetence? if you have any memory at all you will rember british and russan intell was saying the same thing. it is supprising how you fail to rember hind sight is 20/20

get a large group together and you will have a few bad apples. does that make all in the group bad?


When you are on the world stage in a highly controversial war, the inattention involved in letting "a few bad apples" get away with what they did reflects very poorly on those whose job it is to keep them in line.

Again, the most generous thing you could charge the military leadership with is inattention and incompetence. Who leaves raw recruits free reign in a POW prison when the eyes of the world are on you?

This of course ignores the memos from Rumsfeld, and the assertion by the Bush administration that they are above the Geneva convention.

I do have some experience with military government, and I understand the differences from civilian life. I also know that all soldiers are humans, and there are definately some bad ones among them. In fact, some of them are there because they arn't good people, and couldn't do anything else. Perhaps the crackdowns should be harder, but you must realize that these soldiers are in a stressful situation, putting their lives on the line every day because people like the prisoners are shooting at them and bombing them. To expect them to not once in a while crack and do something stupid and senseless is expecting a lot from ordinary people.

how does using the best intell at the time= incmpetence? if you have any memory at all you will rember british and russan intell was saying the same thing. it is supprising how you fail to rember hind sight is 20/20

Best intelligence? They knew the Niger claim was grossly overinflated, and yet Rice said "mushroom clouds." Also, I don't know anywhere where Clinton said Al Qaeda and Iraq were related. Do you? Name one bit of intelligence anywhere that shows Iraq and Al Qaeda were linked?

--oh, and if you bring up the "meetings between Al Qaeda Lieutenants and Iraqi officials", remember that the US funded Osama when he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, and Rumsfeld met with Iraq. Please show where Iraq and Al Qaeda actually worked together.

I do have some experience with military government, and I understand the differences from civilian life. I also know that all soldiers are humans, and there are definately some bad ones among them. In fact, some of them are there because they arn't good people, and couldn't do anything else. Perhaps the crackdowns should be harder, but you must realize that these soldiers are in a stressful situation, putting their lives on the line every day because people like the prisoners are shooting at them and bombing them. To expect them to not once in a while crack and do something stupid and senseless is expecting a lot from ordinary people.

But they hadn't even read the Geneva Convention! They were totally in the dark about proper conduct and discipline procedures!

That's like giving a three year old a gun without any before hand lectures or anything and when he shoots someone going 'well, he's three, what can you expect?'!

But they hadn't even read the Geneva Convention! They were totally in the dark about proper conduct and discipline procedures!

That's like giving a three year old a gun without any before hand lectures or anything and when he shoots someone going 'well, he's three, what can you expect?'!

Oh, good point. I guess I have to conceed to you on that one.

Oh, good point. I guess I have to conceed to you on that one.

Gymoor's impression of Waldo improves greatly (it takes a good mind to conceed a point.)

Hahaha, thank you. I may be opinionated and vocal, but I wouldn't take part in often frustrating debates if I didn't feel I was informing others, or perhaps more importantly, becoming more informed myself.

Right wing and left wing start getting along and you people stop posting? What's wrong with y'all?

I think everyone kinda got overloaded from that really heavy bout of posts. I couldn't even keep up, maybe i should practice typing.

Sorry I was gone so long, dudes...I hadda take a dump. Anyhoo, I might have to leave again soon. I'm in the library, and the bogus librarian says she don't like nobody with bad 'hijean,' whatever THAT means...

"hijean" is the natural enemy of plumber's crack.

We all know that GB is the worst president this country ever had, and we all know (whether or not you want to believe it) that Saddam had next to nothing to do with 9/11. It was a made up bullshit lie, used just as an excuse to overthrow a Arab leader, because his father couldn't do it right the first time. More proof of the Bush's inherited stupinity. Just living up to daddy's name....
And, also, he's not very bright, among other things. And military service record? What a joke that is. At least Kerry (though the man has no personality) faught and served honorably for his country, although that was a bullshit war too.
GB is more popular than Clinton? Bullshit. Clinton was one of the best presidents we ever had. I don't care who was sucking his dick.
And as far as republicans are concerned, I really don't know what to vote for this November: the defecite or the lies? I am confused....

Okay, I am a Republican, but to be fair I will present both sides (Bush and Kerry).

Bush's Achievements:
* According to statistics released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), job creation was up in 46 of the 50 states in the last year, and the unemployment rate was down in all regions and in 47 of the 50 states.
* Nationwide, the economy has posted steady job gains for each of the last ten months – creating more than 1.5 million jobs since August. According to statistics released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), 112,000 new jobs were created in June.
o The national unemployment rate stayed constant at 5.6% in June – down 0.7 percentage point from a peak of 6.3% a year ago. At 5.6%, the unemployment rate is below the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.
o The manufacturing industry, which was the hardest hit by the economic downturn, is beginning to see a recovery. National manufacturing employment is up by 64,000 jobs since its low in January. The ISM Manufacturing survey’s employment index reached a 30-year high in May and remained strong in June, indicating strong further gains in manufacturing employment in the months ahead.
o Unemployment rates have fallen across all levels of education, races, and ages over the past year.
+ For people without a college degree, the unemployment rate is down by 0.7 percentage point.
+ For both African-Americans and Latinos, the unemployment rate is down by 1.5 percentage points.
+ For teenagers, the unemployment rate is down by 2.2 percentage points.
* The economy is growing stronger. Factories are busier, families are earning more, homeownership continues to rise, and people are finding work.
o Economic growth since last summer has been the fastest in nearly 20 years.
o After-tax incomes are up by 11% since December 2000—substantially faster growth than following the last recession, and household wealth is near an all-time high.
o Inflation is low and interest rates and mortgage rates are near historic lows.
o The homeownership rate is at a record high. Minority homeownership is at its highest rate ever.
o The Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 25% in 2003, and the NASDAQ rose by 50%.

Saddam Hussien, the Dictator of Iraq, oppressor of his citizens and cold-hearted killer was overthrown and captured, and is currently on trial for War Crimes/Crimes against humanity/Etc.

Afghanistan has been freed from its corrupt rulers, and the tight grip of Al Queda and the Taliban.

Bush's No-No's:

* Was convinced by his staff that there were WMD's in Iraq, actually believed them. (Before you flip out, know these key points:

-CONGRESS voted FOR war with Iraq.
-Who gives a fuck what the French think? French people hate anything that doesn't maintain an aura of hideous odor.
-Hippie flip-floppers don't deserve to have an opinion. They only go with what's cool at that point in time (Most of you bash Bush just to be cool. Can you graduate from Yale?

Kerry's Achievements:
*Successfully received a Botox injection.
*Received a Purple Heart in Vietnam for a 1.2mm metal splinter (Fragments of rockets randomly fired from his PT Boat)
*Received two more Purple Hearts for other very minor injuries (Received his lollypop after the medic applied a small band-aid)


Kerry's No-No's:
*Came back to the US after receiving the third Purple Heart. What a brave man. Forget you POWs, this poor man has Post-Traumatic Splinter Disorder!!
*Missed 66% of Congress voting sessions
*Voted AGAINST the Laci Peterson law, which protects pregnant women from violence.


Way to go, Naz- Err, Kerry-lovers. You officially look like idiots. Again.

-Who gives a fuck what the French think? French people hate anything that doesn't maintain an aura of hideous odor.
-Hippie flip-floppers don't deserve to have an opinion. They only go with what's cool at that point in time (Most of you bash Bush just to be cool. Can you graduate from Yale?

Or, you know, bashing Bush because of numerous stupities. (WMD, for example. The No Child Left Behind. The Patriot Act. "BRING IT ON". You're either with us or against us. If you don't agree with the government you're a terrorist. (Well, okay, that was Danny Ashcroft)

Secondly, you're an idiot. "ROFL THEM FRENCH SURE STINK LOLZ". Yeah, that's sure a GREAT way to maintain a good national reputation.

Oh, and…

George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

* Ran for congress and lost.
* Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
* Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
* Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
* With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
* Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
* Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:

* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
* First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
* Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
* Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
* My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
* First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
* Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
* First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
* Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
* Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
* Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
* Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
* Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
* Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
* First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
* All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
* My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
* Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
* First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
* First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
* First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
* Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
* With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
* First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
* First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
* Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
* Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
* Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
* In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
* Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
* In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
* Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:

* At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
* AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
* Refused to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
* All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.
* For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

(Sorry, I'm Calaana. Forgot to log out of my second nationstates account. Silly me.)

Not to mention that Congress only voted on a plan that would have invading Iraq as a LAST STEP option. George Bush went from Step One to The Final Step right after. It's not 'flip flopping' to disagree with really horrible changes to a plan. It's common sense

That's just blatant twisting of facts.

Jesus, is the "daddy" argument necessary for every Anti-bush discussion? So-fucking-what his father served in office! You know what it means? DICK. It means PRECISELY DICK.

That's just blatant twisting of facts.

Jesus, is the "daddy" argument necessary for every Anti-bush discussion? So-fucking-what his father served in office! You know what it means? DICK. It means PRECISELY DICK.
Actually...you would think that Bush would obviously be a good President because his father was a pretty good president, but here is the difference. GB Sr. served as head of the CIA and had more than a 5th grade geography view of the world and international relations. Baby Bush isn't even too good at American Civics..

I have an idea.

Let's talk about Clinton.

What did the world think of the US while Clinton was choking Lewinski? I'm sure it was no better than what the world may think of us now. George Bush may look like an ape, talk like an idiot, or whatever bullshit argument you can pull out of your ass, but at least he hasn't f*cked any secretaries.

I have an idea.

Let's talk about Clinton.

What did the world think of the US while Clinton was choking Lewinski? I'm sure it was no better than what the world may think of us now. George Bush may look like an ape, talk like an idiot, or whatever bullshit argument you can pull out of your ass, but at least he hasn't f*cked any secretaries.

Which is worse, getting head, or killing thousands... hmmm...

I have an idea.

Let's talk about Clinton.

What did the world think of the US while Clinton was choking Lewinski? I'm sure it was no better than what the world may think of us now. George Bush may look like an ape, talk like an idiot, or whatever bullshit argument you can pull out of your ass, but at least he hasn't f*cked any secretaries.
No, instead he fucked up US foreign relations which is much more dangerous. Who cares if Clinton got a little head in the White House. How many soldiers died because of it?

You are a fat smelly bastard. 'Nuff said.


edit: this was of course, directed to fat smelly bastard.

You are a fat smelly bastard. 'Nuff said.
...

I'm sorry. I totally agree with your post. I meant Fat Smelly Bastard was a Fat Smelly Bastard. ;)

Um, how come no one is realizing that FSB is being intentionally obtuse in order to show the weakness of the Bushies side? He's keeping it up, probably, because he can't believe everyone is taking him so seriously.

I feel bad for my supposedly more learned and liberal bretheren for taking his posts literally. Aren't we the ones who are supposed to have a better appreciation of irony?
I guess it's a sign of these polarized and knee-jerk reaction times that no one can see the obvious.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be insulting, but there's something dangerous in the fact that we've become so good at making ourselves believe in the stupidity of those who don't agree with us that we actually think someone is seriously calling them the "empire twin towers."

Sigh. More humor and more rational thought are needed in these dark times.

P.S. Bush sucks

M'kay. This was an interesting experiment. Kinda surprised it took this long.
I'm feel proud that so many people are willing to stand up and speak out on this. It's too bad we've had to suffer this much to feel this way.

I agree with this fella i quoted here.
I also think that someone here, maybe a moderator, could ascertain that FSB is another poster on this same flame-bait thread. My money is on Roach-Busters. I haven't yet reached the end of the thread, just marking my point along.

Agreed. The entertainment value of this thread is priceless.
Methinks this may just quantify my suspicion. The times of my entries may be of note ...

No, instead he fucked up US foreign relations which is much more dangerous. Who cares if Clinton got a little head in the White House. How many soldiers died because of it?

No lives may have been lost because Clinton was getting a BJ, but the entire nation was put in danger multiple times due to his incompetance. Pick up a copy of "Dereliction of Duty" to see what I mean, it's written by the guy that carried the nuclear football for Clinton. Clinton was a likeable man, one of those guys who is so slick you have to take a shower after listening to him talk, but he was an awful president.

No lives may have been lost because Clinton was getting a BJ, but the entire nation was put in danger multiple times due to his incompetance. Pick up a copy of "Dereliction of Duty" to see what I mean, it's written by the guy that carried the nuclear football for Clinton. Clinton was a likeable man, one of those guys who is so slick you have to take a shower after listening to him talk, but he was an awful president.
What was it exactly that he did so awfully? I mean, sure the whole Lewenski scandal, but I don't really see what huge effect that had on the world...

It was all because that one guy (I forgot his name) could'nt find anything wrong with Clinton's political carreer, so he looked into his sexual life.

You gotta read the book for the full effect, but here are some bullet points:

-Lost the nuclear biscuit (card with all nuclear launch codes which every president should have with him at all times) for an uncertain time period

-Left the nuclear football carrier at a football game (of all places) and forgot about him, meaning he had to walk 5 miles unguarded and away from the president. Mutually Assured Destruction oriented defense from foreign nuclear attacks kinda went out the window at that point.

-Refused to take 5 minutes out of watching a golf tournament to authorize an airstrike against iraq, and a terrible cost to tax payers

The list goes on, but NEVER before did a president approach his duty in such a negligent manner.

EDIT: The guy was named Kenneth Starr, and while politics may or may not have been involved, Clinton did sexually harass multiple women, and subsequently purjured himself in front of a grand jury. Also, remember high crimes and misdemeanors have nothing to do with criminal law.

Oooo, easy to challenge semantics like that. It's an analogy. Kinda like, if you know a guy is trying to get a weapon to kill you, or one of your friends (ie israel), do you wait till he gets the gun or pulls the trigger?

EDIT: We have weapons because of a little concept called MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). Right now our weapons are the only protection we have from being attacked by WMDs ourself.... If Clinton hadn't cut star wars tech funding, we might already have Ballistic Missle Defense Systems, which would realistically lead to worldwide disarmament. Why have a useless weapon?
Maybe you should read more like yourself preached a few quotes back. Type up Alaska, Fort Greely. Current. Look at projections, cost, and viability. Then look at inspection, review. Put it all together. And when you're done with that, type up Alaska again and look into Gakona. Type in HAARP. Use some moxy and get past the oldest posts 'round '96 or '97. Then type up "Ionospheric Heaters", like maybe SURA or EISCAT, and then read a little about that, like K & L levels of atmosphere, and maybe Langmuir turbulence.
Then after you're done reading that, think 'bout what ya wrote!
I agree that there should be some backing for a quote!

vs a bumbling idiot who doesn't think so highly of civil rights and starts wars with countries apparantly for reasons different than what he says...and how many times has Bush been out of the country to talk with foreign leaders?

Thats some interesting stuff Straughn. I definately learned something tonight, and I thank you. However, I still think ballistic missle defense systems are feasable, and would be a real catalyst for disarmament.

Opal Isle: Under Clinton we all could have died many, many times. You may not agree with Bush's policy, but to say that what clinton did wasn't that bad because bush is "a bumbling idiot who doesn't think so highly of civil rights" is sad, and makes me question your grip on reality.

Opal Isle: Under Clinton we all could have died many, many times. You may not agree with Bush's policy, but to say that what clinton did wasn't that bad because bush is "a bumbling idiot who doesn't think so highly of civil rights" is sad, and makes me question your grip on reality.
Under Bush many of us have died and many of us will continue to die.

Under Bush many of us have died and many of us will continue to die.
That's not to mention many of innocent Iraqi citizens as well...

And that's reality...

Lessee...

Inflation decreased 5.4% since he took office...

Unemployment is now at 2.98%...

Deficit spending was reduced by $1,809,7650,000.00...

World approval ratings of the U.S. are 300% higher than they were under Clinton...

He's the first President EVER to obey the Constitution...

He's tough on terrorism...

He overthrew Saddam and prevented another 9/11...

Need I say more?


<SIGH> Fat Smelly Bastard, how old are you? From what you have been saying you do not sound like someone who is the least bit informed on reality. You are oresenting yourself as yet another poor sap who belives anything he hears from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, who by the way tell hundreds more lies and distortions of fact in a matter of weeks than Michael Moore ever will in his lifetime.

I have absolutely no idea where you found your research but the inflation rate has not dropped since Bush took office.

Unemployment was about 2.98% when W took office, now its' closer to 7%.

Clinton brought the U.S. out of debt and developed a surplus, we are reaching record deficits and spending is only increasing, which is not hard to find since this is one thing that W is proud of.

If you've been paying the least amount of attention to any new source other than Conservative radio, you would know that World Hate Ratings have gone up 300% since W took office.

W is the first president ever to try to abolish the Bill of Rights<cough>Patriot Act<cough>.

He completely ignored terrorism untill 9/11. Which was likely a factor in why 9/11 happened.

Attacking a country that has no organized army and ousting an already weakening government to try to shove "freedom" dow people's throats is hardly something to be proud of. And on preventing another 9/11, if Al Qaeda wanted to attack the US again, they would very likely have succeeded, but they haven't tried so W can't be credited with stopping what hasn't been tried.

So, Fat Smelly Bastard, if you are serious in your assertion of W's "greatness," next time do us all a favor and do some real research.




p.s. Even what the current administration has accomplished can't be attributed to W. W's not smart enought to run a country, this is really Dick Cheney's administration.

He's got to be about the worst president ever for the following reasons:

1.Only president to enter office with a criminal record

2.Only pres. in recent times who had a C avg. i high school and college. That's fine for most, but not the leader of the free world

3.Choked on a pretzel and nearly lost his life while watching TV

4.Spent 42% of 1st 6 months in office on vacation

5.Halliburton

6.Where's the WMD?

7.John Ashcroft

8.Proposed the 1st amendment in history to restrict rights rather than guarantee them (excluding prohibition).

9.Stole the election

10.Slashed funding for the Violence Against Women Act

11.3 million jobs were lost in his 1st 3 years in office

12.Why is the 'Bush Doctirne; only viable for Iraq? There should be the Bush Asterisk: *Document not valid is Syria, Jordan, Lebannon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen, North Korea

8.Proposed the 1st amendment in history to restrict rights rather than guarantee them (excluding prohibition).

....which was repealed...

Yes, both Americans and Iraqis have died in the conflict. The Americans died doing jobs they signed up to do. Iraqis died before we ever went to Iraq, died by the thousands by Saddam's hand. As and Iraqi immigrant to the states told a girl on a radio show before the war (i'll see if I can't attach the sound byte), Iraqis may die if the US went to Iraq, but they would definately die if we didn't.

NOTE: Gonna post this while I look for a link to the sound

Check your facts boys, I'll get some stuff that proves you wrong :p